011 - Claim It Before You're Ready with Leanne Hughes

What happens if we dare to tear off the mask of professionalism and actually risk showing

up for real? I'm your host, and I'm happy. And this is unprofessionalism.

If there's some excitement from you about doing something nervous, whatever type of feeling,

I think if that can fade actually. So if you wait, if you linger a bit too long on it,

there's only sight thinking around blah blah blah. But if you just commit to it,

through yourself and the deep end, you've got to trust your resourcefulness though. Don't worry

about the how, you will find it, you will find the people, you will find the tools, you will find

a system or a coach. Either way, you'll find it if that's what you really want.

Liam, welcome back. Miriam, it's always great to chat. I jump right in and always start with the

same question. When has being unprofessional in air quotes? Be the best thing that you could have

done in your career. Yeah, I was thinking about this question and the most unprofessional thing

I did actually is led to this conversation today. I'm sure you've heard this story, but maybe

you listeners haven't. When I was working for this big organization, I was obsessed with podcasts,

like listening to them. And there was a big podcasting conference in Brisbane that I really wanted

to go to to meet my favorite podcasters, Jordan Harbinger and a few others. So I asked my

company to pay for me to go because I thought, well, it's about learning and they rejected the

offer. So well, I really want to go. So I took annually, if I paid for my own ticket and went to this

event. And over the two days, I learned so much about podcasting. It was amazing. And there was

an opportunity on the second day to win a business book, but to win it that you had to submit the name

of your podcast to be in the running. I didn't have one, but I wasn't going to like that stop.

So I guess what I did was very unprofessional. I made up a podcast. I just wrote down first

time facilitator on this blue post at note. I put it in the heart and I said, okay, if this gets

picked, I'm going to create this podcast. And what do you know? Five minutes later, he pulls out

my blue post at note and he's like, first time facilitator Lee Ann Hughes. It's like, come on down

and tell us about your show. And I ran down there and I made it. I told them what the show was about.

I didn't say, oh, I'm so sorry, this show doesn't exist. I just pretended that it was a real thing.

And then a few months later, I launched the show. And that's how we know each other. It was through

the first time facilitator podcast, three workshops work. So that's the origin story. And it was

extremely unprofessional, but I'm so grateful. I did it. This story. And yes, I knew it before.

In listening to it every time, it's just hilarious. The guts. And the guts you show and the

determination. But this is what I do. And keeping the word. So these are three, I think,

characteristics that I hear in this story that I totally link to the Ann Hughes.

Yeah. Well, I was like, well, first of all, I thought, what are the chances of mine getting picked?

I mean, there's like, how many, you know, there's hundreds of people at this thing. So I didn't,

I didn't think it was a huge risk. But then when I actually saw this because of a blue poster,

no, it gave me time. I'm like, that's mine. And yet, it's half a second of what you can do.

I think it goes back to, you know, improv. When you, when you learn improv, it's like, don't,

like, don't stop it. Like go along with it. And I was like, let's just improv this and,

and see where it goes. And it was funny when I was talking to Andrew, when he's announced,

when I was telling him about my idea, he's like, oh, that's a great idea for a podcast.

He was like, validating it on stage. Like, this is perfect. Perfect. You have to grab the

opportunities when they come. And I would, yeah, there is. That is now what fourth,

no, seven years ago, eight years ago. I would say, yeah, I would say eight years ago. Now,

what the 2018, tell us about the entrepreneur, solo printer VM. Or maybe the human VM.

Yeah, I think it tells you a lot. I think it tells you pretty much everything on how I like to do

things. And Miriam, we're just celebrating because I've just finished the first draft of my book,

called WorkFame, which is coming out in October. And it's being published by Wiley. And I

remember waking up one morning, so before I got the deal, I've self-published my first book

to our workshop blueprint. And I was like, I really like a publishing deal for the next one,

just to try something different. And I was in bed. I was at a coffee in my laptop. I went on,

and I just searched for publishers, connected with them. And then later, I data sent a two-minute

loom video. I didn't even know what the book was about myself. I was like, here's an idea. I think

these two words are called WorkFames, is what I think it could do. And that's what led to the book deal.

So I think it tells you everything. It's just my approach. I don't think there's any point

investing in stuff upfront. You've really got to validate things. And yeah, that's how I approach

a lot of different things. Even running, I guess, would be the same. Yeah. Tell me more.

Well, my first, I mean, I'm not a runner. This is going back to 2014. And I was like,

I was just sick of letting myself down. I was very good at committing and following through

with everyone else. But when I was like, oh, I want to do something, I would just constantly let

myself down. So the ultimate thing you can do that proves your discipline to yourself,

a marathon. So I went to the beach and broom that day. And I wrote 42.2 kilometers and took a photo

of it, put it on Instagram and said, go all-case marathon next year. And so, I mean, I wasn't a runner,

like at all. I'd run like maybe a few kilometers at that point. Yeah. So it's just kind of like

public declaration accountability and follow-through. Wow. And just setting a goal because your mind came up

with it. And then before it's perfect. And I think that is something that's so many I'm missing,

that is that being successful doesn't mean that we have to be pitch perfect already.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's like going, like if you have, if there's some excitement from you about

doing something, nervous, whatever type of feeling, I think it's definitely, I think if that can

fade, actually, like so if you wait, if you linger a bit too long on it, it can become a bit,

then you start thinking around, blah, blah, blah. But if you kind of just commit to it,

through yourself and the deep end, you've got to trust your resourcefulness, though. I think

that I talked about resourceful last week is like, I think it's just a key skill right now.

I mean, it's always been a key skill, but for me, even more so. It's like, don't worry about

the how you will find it. You will find the people. You will find the tools. You will find a system

or a coach. Either way, you'll find it if that's what you really want. Sean D'Souza, I went to his

workshop in Singapore. It was about how to run right sales pages. I really admire Sean,

like others said to us, podcast. So I was really just loved the two day experience. And he's like,

okay, if you want feedback on your material, he goes, you need to send it to me by tomorrow

before I get out of my plane. And that was the best thing because if he said, you send me your

article in two weeks, I would have been like trying, like, to be two weeks is like, get this right.

But it's like, overnight, I'm going to have to, we're all going out that night. So I'm going to have

to scramble in the morning, like, give it a couple of hours and send it to him scrappy. But it just

kept that momentum going. So I do think time is part of this, like the more time it gets heavier,

more weighty. You're going to keep it light for yourself. That's why I like tight deadlines.

I love and just bring up one memory, my very first internship I did for German development

company. And my, the first boss there told me, me, I'm just gratitude to do perfect work.

In business, nobody has time to deliver perfect work. Just make it work, make it good enough.

And yeah, I think back then I haven't, I was stirred uni. So I didn't understand the concept.

But now you just made me think of it. Yeah, it was maybe one of the best advice.

That's brilliant advice. So yeah, and I hear this, I'm a great quote I heard from one of my clients,

is like, the first draft is the hardest. And I think it's even establishing like, what is good

enough? It's like, because you're in your own head, I think it's always about what you're worried

about is like that person's impression on what, as in it's a reflection of me as a person,

you're going to kind of separate yourself from the thing. It's like, the critique is about that.

It's not about lian hues. I always try to like separate, because once ego comes in, of course,

what is good enough? I mean, how fun do you go? What's that? Yeah. Yeah. And I think the,

the reaching out to other people, since we are and you're a big AI user, you're not allowed to use

AI for your book. No. So that's also an interesting kind of distinction suddenly that you're

deprived of the tool that you're so used to. But what I'm coming to is when you're used to

communicating with AI, and it's, it's easy to be caught in this echo chamber. So it becomes even

more important to reach out to real people to get their feedback on our work. Yeah. Big time.

This is like a lot of us are outsourcing a lot of life decisions to chat, like literally,

and it's like what chat GBT is like an average of what you see online. And when you really think

about it, like, who's posting the stuff online? And, and it's all based on historical, like,

it's all based on history stuff that's been out there. It's not about prediction. And that's the

value of, I guess, our prefrontal cortex is a, like, imagination. So, yeah, it's quite

theoryony. Yeah, it's quite scary that we do outsource a lot of our decisions and to AI.

Yeah. And then I think the, the importance of keeping work original, so not relying on it and

seeing the difference. And it's, so I used AI in my writing. And at some point had these

loud voices in my hand, you're an imposter, you're not creative, you're not a writer, you should not

use AI for your writing. And then realized that it's a different ways to approach it. So I found

my own, yes, my own reasoning around it. But I would be, and I understand that as a, as a publisher,

you don't want your authors to use AI in order not to lose this creative edge.

Yes. Saying that though, like, sometimes when I write my weekly newsletter, like, where I start

is with a voice note. So it's like, just voice note it out. And then sometimes I will go into a

claw to be like, just, can you just sequence this? Because like, this is just random musings from me.

So you just sequence it and like, construct is probably not my greatest strength. I'm very

great at idea burst. And it's like, okay, where's the logic in this? And how do I fit it together?

And so having that as a buddy is good. But I think it's as only as good as the input.

Yes. Yes. And it becomes a mirror to yourself. I realized that at some point,

God became very impatient. And like, okay, so that's good. Shall we move to the next chapter now?

I'm like, no, wait a moment. I'm not done yet. But I realized that I'm usually the impatient one.

Oh, that's good enough. Let's move on. I don't have time for details.

That's fascinating. I don't think mine has ever said that. That's so great.

Yeah. And then when I saw it in Claude, I was like, oh, Jesus. It's kind of reflecting my own

behavior back to me. And that was very healing. That's a really funny story. Yeah.

Come on. So that's, I think since then, for me, it's a really good reminder to watch out too.

Okay. So what I get back is usually what I put in as you said. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And what makes for you the, what's a professional writer?

Or would you consider yourself as a professional writer now that you have almost published two books?

I mean, there's the logical answer. So a professional writer is someone that gets paid for their writing.

Like, that's the simple definition. I would say it's like when I look at

sporting people, there's amateurs, there's professionals and the professionals get paid.

I mean, I get paid how much I get about $1500 a year from my sub-stack. So from my beautiful

15 annual subscribers. So I guess I could say that I'm a professional writer. I do like the term

author. I like the term author because there's, well, actually, I get a bit weirded by it, but it's

authority. I prefer kind of expert. And this is because I feel like I write more on expert,

the root word about is experience. You know, experience. You write, writing from your experience.

So I feel like I do that. So I'm in the expert on this topic, but the tool that I'm using is

writing. I wouldn't call myself a professional writer. I don't see myself. I feel like that's more,

I don't know, more fiction that type of thing. I see myself more as, hey, the expert on this topic.

And I'll talk about it through podcasting. I'll write about it. I'm an author. But I guess the

professional, I mean, I don't like labels either at all, you know, I really dislike them because

I think we all, we like a couple of people in boxes and I think that really takes away from who

the person is and their value. Yes. Would you call yourself a professional hotcaster? No.

No, well, I've never been paid directly to podcast. Like the revenue's been from the stuff

because of the podcast, but no one's, I mean, I've had sponsorship occasionally, but no,

it's a little bit different, I think. What would you call yourself a professional hotcaster?

It's interesting. I was just, as I asked the question, I went to all the labels that I could

potentially put on myself or, yeah, yeah, put the word professional in front of it. And all of them

feel a key. And then I think there's a distinction where it's maybe not only about the paycheck.

So, but about how serious are we taking the craft or do have we, so the word profession comes from

professing, professing a vow for quality towards our clients and towards the research.

Oh, and I find it beautiful. And something that got totally lost, I think, in the way we use the word.

Yeah. I think podcasting is maybe amongst all the things that I'm doing,

the thing that I take the most seriously, although I don't earn a single cent from it and it

cost me, maybe my most expensive hobby or marketing tour or what I call filter. My people cannot be.

The quality, okay, now I don't have a microphone, but usually the quality, the cadence,

the commitment, I'm very backwards professional about that.

Yes, yes, you are. But you also approach, I would say, you're a professional conversation

guide or as well. And so you're bringing that in as well. So I think it's not even the technical

stuff. It's, yeah, the quality of the conversation, the rhythm and discipline you have around

the consistency. These are signals of professionalism, right? And still, and I think, and then there is

there's a trap where we let the label and everything that we attach to the label guide our work

instead of us guiding ourselves and our own work. Yeah. And I agree. This is what stands out for

me in your work that you always following your own got your own calling, your own ideas.

Tell me about the festival you are. Oh, yes. And I had that thing.

That was another example, yeah. But in what? In, in a month, less than a month, you sold out?

It sold out in like eight days, I think. It sold out and I got a lot. I remember we recorded a

video that we will no longer do face to face because it's too difficult to sell. And there you

go within eight days, you sell out a high price ticket in person event. Yeah. Yeah. And the events

it was like in 250 days, like it wasn't even next month. It was like in less than a year.

That was a wild experiment. Well, like I mean, like you, I know these great people,

they're all asking me similar questions. And I'm like, how do I was like, how do we,

like, what can we do around this? And obviously, I was kind of sick with all the virtual meetup.

So I'm like, I'm, I want to crave in person. But I'm like, there's no other event that I want to go

do. Like I was looking around, what would I go to my, I don't know, I was like, well, why don't I

host it and just create my own party? And so, yeah. So I actually, this is the funny thing about it

because I gave it a name and the name has stuck, but I think I want to change it. I called it

concon just like the consulting conference. And then even that sounds like a bit of a joke. But

yeah, kind of on. So I don't go right, we're going to host it. I'm a goal coach because I like the

beach. It's an hour from Brisbane. People like going there. I'm going to pick these dates in

June. And that's all I had. The name, the dates and like, and not even a venue, but just does that

city. And then I was like, okay, here's the vision of what I'm thinking. And I basically

what I said to you is like, I want to bring these great people together. You know, we're going

by consultants. Like, let's, you know, here's my vision for the event. And so what I, but what I do

is I think was created a bit of scarcity around that. So I was like, well, it's an experiment.

If 15 people walking on the first within 24 hours, we're doing it. If 15 people don't,

it's gone. We're canning it. And like, honestly, within 20 minutes, I think like 18 people

have signed up. And yeah. And so then I was like, I'm going to cap it at 50 people because I like

that as a number. I think you can create a great community with 50 people. And it, yeah, it just

went from there. And it's what I find fascinating and beautiful. It's very similar. I

story to your podcast. You pitched something before you had it. You first chose the name

and your vision around it. And then stress tested with a real audience. Yes. And well, I guess

so I wanted to come back to this idea around like questioning identities and assumptions,

right? Because I think the biggest thing that I challenged with this was why does the event host

take on all the risks when running an event? Like, why? When the benefit is actually for everyone

involved. So I was like, let's share the risk here. Like, it's a huge risk for me to put a

deposit on a venue and then try to fill seats. And then I'm like, weird position where I'm begging

people to come along where I'm like, I want this. If you want it to now, we're all sharing the risk.

You're putting money in. And I think so that came from an assumption of like, let's start running the

way of like events. It's not fair for the event host because like, and actually the event host does

are like, it's, you don't, basically, don't make much money of it. It's more of a, I'm going to,

I'm doing this for the love of this. This isn't my core business. So yeah, just question,

like I said, just questioning a label attached to certain things is how you can

yeah, break that. And I, so thank you for adding that. I'm so glad that I helped back with my

questions. What you speak, what I think is below the surface is your years of showing up and

leading with crazy ideas that you follow through and put out there. Yeah. And you're reliable.

So you have spent eight to 10 years building your personal brand. Yeah, that if you say, okay,

I have this crazy idea. Let's share the risk. People who put their money down know that you will

keep your word. Yeah. And I think that's a piece of professionalism where people trust your word

and trust that if you do something, there will be quality behind. So although you're not a

equals professional event host. Correct. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Event organizer because that's a

different ball game. It's a whole other ball game. Yeah. But it won't be the first, first not you

doesn't tank away. Yeah, I think you're right. And I'm now putting a lot of pressure on myself.

I talk about professionals and I'm like, you know, my in a dialogue now is like, this has to be

the most kick-ass event that I've ever delivered is like, that's what I'm trying personally trying

to aim for. So I'm like, yeah, so it's a great challenge for me. And so that's why I'm also

invested in it because like, there's growth for me as well. Like, what can we possibly do with this?

I'm scared. Like, you know, it is, yeah, it's a big bet. People backed me. It's like they've literally

backed me to do this. And so I want to make it awesome. So yeah, like I think, I think you're right.

Just having that, I don't know if it's professional following through what you're going to say. But I

think, I mean, that's the baseline I would, I would imagine on anyone that's that's got a personal

brand. I mean, it's back to trust. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a very long and difficult to build.

It's a long-term investment and very great to break. Gary. And I think that's also where then the

the excitement or the nervousness comes from. How will you be fine success if you say the most

kicker's event? That's yeah, it's big. How would you, what role does success play in all of that?

And who isn't, yeah, who who carries the risk for the success? Because if everyone, I mean,

we all do. Yeah, we will do. And I, so I think, I mean, there's, I guess there's multiple layers of

that. I mean, would be like walking away with a really great connection, finding a new collaboration

buddy. I mean, this is for the people that come along. I would say that I would love to add an

extra 50k to their businesses, but as a result of, you know, I would love to put a metric on that,

even though I'm not a metrics person. But I just think, I think there's a real opportunity to

help people grow. And I think we can do that by sharing and being transparent. I think just the joy

as well that we create over the two days. And also, I mean, we're in a very privileged position

because the work that we do impacts people that also run massive group experiences. So when we

impact a person, we're not impacting that one person, if they go back to an organization and

implement something they picked up, we have huge ripple effects for their work. We are in a very,

like, both you and I, so we can really turn some things around. And so I think that would be, like,

that's probably the bigger impact goal is, I really want to, yeah, decide, I guess, like,

shake everyone up, including myself. And like, hey, what are we doing? What can we do better? How

do we have fun with this? And how can we, like, just, yeah, I don't know, do you better?

But you're right. I should probably put some my hard, like, proper sit down. I think what that is.

And honestly, I got goosebumps when you explained about the ripple effect. And what success

means to you to have the bigger impact and what my gut told me in that moment is, no, don't sit down

with metrics. Right? And I think this, this is from trapping which we hold on, because if you're

suddenly in metrics, you look at the metrics and try to, to check all the boxes where your heart

and Leanne use is in the passion of doing. And then as a side effect, there will be grandios.

Yes, yes, because it's, and you said, you said, a sentence mentioning we inspire people by

being transparent about how we do the things. And I think that's something that you do to the

extreme. And I'm helping so many people around you, including myself, to make better decisions,

about use of money for tech, for instance, right? Every year, you publish how much money you spend

on the latest tech tools. And whether you can endorse them or not for the next year.

Yeah, incredibly transparent. And that's what we are missing very often. Also from event

online, as we only see the shiny side from authors, we only see what works. Yeah, I'm actually,

because even yesterday, I was thinking about this event. And I'm like, how do we, because

what I would love to do is everyone to like, either bring along like that, the best proposal

that I've ever had and like show us the proposal, like show us your costumes, show us. And I'm like,

how do I, how do I do that? Like do I get people to submit anonymous, like, do I get people to put

their name on it? Like how do I, I would love that. I think we'd all learn by going, hey, here's

what you're charging for this. And I'm like, how do I facilitate that? But is it that I just,

I sent out my first one to them and go, hey, here's a proposal I did. Here's everything.

If you're willing to share. Yeah. I don't know. Because money and Australians will money in

everyone. Yes. Yes. It's such a triggering topic. But it's, I mean, we're in business. Oh my

gosh, it shouldn't be. And I love the idea. And I think if you can do that, especially at a close

event, maybe not in day one, you might need to build a little bit of safety and comfort and

around it. But then I think many people will be up for it. And if everyone brings a proposal,

then everyone shares against shares the risk. And then it'd be, yeah. And it's indeed it's so

said and where that we openly share our rates with each other. And there would be so much

to learn from that big time. And I wonder where it comes from because it could be so having

high rates could be something to be proud of without showing off. I don't know where it comes from.

These, um, it's like, I guess the money, it's, it's money, but I don't know what it is either,

but yeah, it could be showing off or you could also think maybe that's not enough. Maybe I'm

no one really knows. Like, it's like, how are people pricing it? Like you just don't know. And

I think there's a lot of things that lead into it. I mean, brand is a big one. Like how do I,

in demand are you, you know, then you, so I think it could, and if you're a solo printer, you

couldn't marry your identity with that, right? That's where it gets personal. Yeah. I think that's

probably the major thing. And it's so difficult, especially as you say, for solo printers, then to

compare. And in the area of facilitation, I assume most of your guests will be facilitators.

Are you really, is your offer, although you might offer a workshop, or is it an experience,

or is it a process? It's very different from each other. So the pricing is also different. Of

course, yeah, it is really hard to compare. It's highly complex, but I think to see the proposal,

also how do you structure it? And what do you price? Do you price? Do you put the price

take on your name? Do you put the price take on the value on the time? There's so many different

ways to do that. Yeah, I agree. And maybe it's maybe we just do like a case study, like a client

that's come to you with this, they want this, how, what would you charge? And what would you think

about? You know, maybe that's more of a discussion. I don't know. But I love the idea. I love the idea

because again, it breaks the walls of what we do, conferences. Yeah. Speaking about money in

the abstract, it's very easy. It's so easy. Speaking about when it's you, very different. Yes,

and maybe that's it. What you said also about the rejection of our work when we send it out early

for people to review, without our pricing, suddenly it's not about our work, it's about ourselves.

Yeah. Yeah. And that can be dangerous. So if we do attach the ego because then where is the

growth opportunity? Like if you're not participating in these conversations, like I remember joining

an Alan Weiss mastermind early on, and I, a guy and a group was charging 50k for strategy. And

I was like, whoa, that's unbelievable. I like to hear that, but it was great to hear that.

Yeah. So these conversations can be really helpful, but yeah, definitely important. I mean,

in everything, it is hard to separate yourself from the idea, but I think that's a really powerful

mindset if you can do it. Yeah. And I think there's a lot of value in this initial intimidation.

Wow. If someone, if he can charge that much, what would it take me to charge that much? And if

charging higher rates as a goal, then this can become a real aspiration. And then, oh, with your

mindset, I could just try it out. Yeah. Well, it's why I love it. They always say, never make

your heroes. And I've met a few of my heroes. And he like, they're great. They're just,

they really great people be like, then they're humans. It's like, we can all do this. And I know

that people have a special talent, of course, but a lot of it is around, I mean, there's a bit of

luck involved as well. You have to admit that. But you've got to, yeah, it's very encouraging to know

that they don't have special powers. They are normal humans. And you can create your moments of luck.

If you don't show up, the chances of being lucky are very yellow. I went, oh, there was a book,

I think, about serendipity. And what I found interesting was that it seems as if extroverts are

more lucky or have higher chances of success. And the way they explained it is that extroverts

take more chances to speak to strangers, for instance. And the more you speak to strangers,

the higher the opportunity, the chance, the probability to meet a random person who can help

you on your adventure. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Yeah. I mean, that's supposed to be a

Dr. Christian Bush. I had him on my podcast. I think he talked about the serendipity. Yeah,

it's such a great book. Something that I've written about as well, I call it the walk of fame.

Like go for a walk and say hi to people. And as I was writing, I'm like, this is quite,

this is going to really throw some people off. People are going to reject this idea. And I was

like, do I believe it? And I was like, yes, actually, like, because, you know, we're also plugged in

and so insular. And a lot of this is about, we're in society. We've got to connect with people.

It's like, that's what it's about. And so if you can develop that every day, but to say hi to

someone, even though they'll probably reject you. I mean, 80% of the time people don't say hello

back to me. It's not about getting a high back. It's about just being the person that's brave

enough to smile at a stranger and say, good day. Yeah. And funny enough, I make a different

experience. Many people actually say hi back. I at least smile. Yeah. And it sometimes can make a day.

Yes. The very short moment of human connection, a smile, a hello, and to practice that every day.

I love that. I want to read your book even more. Thank you. You're too kind. No, I'm just being

honest. Thank you. What would be an unprofessional advice? Something unprofessional that you would

still advise other people to do? I think it's probably the threat of this conversation.

And I don't want to say don't overthink it. I think that's too easy to say, but it's definitely

like follow that joy. If you've got an idea that it's like bursting through with energy,

I think it deserves a place to go. And so just put it out. That's how I'd frame it.

Rather than like make it the best thing and before you put it out, I think just make it a low

friction way of just stress testing it because you'll feel better about it. Like I just have to,

when I have these ideas, like where can I put them? That's why I had my daily podcast last year is

because I just want to place these ideas somewhere and get them out of my system and you can go back

to them later. But it's just a nice thing to do. And even if no one either listens to it or

responds to your ideas, okay, because at least you're creating this practice over time. And it

makes it easier for, you know, right books and do other things and link ideas because

you've captured that somewhere. And so I'm not, you know, it doesn't have to be in public,

but just like do something with that. Because if your body, I think if your full body is saying,

I'm really excited about this. You deserve to try it. So that would be my advice.

It's so beautiful. Yeah. Look. Yeah. I don't want to be too corny. There's another thing that I think

we can learn from you is the, they're not getting attached to it. I think there are two things. One

thing that you, when you can benefit from the process independent of the outcome, just do it.

So you put your podcast out there and it wasn't about the podcast, but it was about your learning and

having this bucket where you can put in your ideas. If then it becomes successful, great.

Nice pipe. Yes. And the second, yeah, no one to stop. So after the year of daily podcasting,

you said, we're good done that now. Yeah. That was a great idea to do that because it's been nice

waking up and not having to worry about it. But I'm so glad I did the whole year of it as well.

Yeah. I like that you differentiated those two points. But I don't know who said this. I

saw it online. But it's like, if you're not getting rejected enough, you're not living like your

true life or something like that. If you're not getting rejected, it's like, God, that's so good.

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. I don't remember who said that. And I heard something similar recently

about the most powerful person in the, in the corporate room is the person who made more mistakes.

Oh, really? This position because I made more mistakes than you did. And I love that.

It's that is also say message, but apply to the corporate now like to have this humility as a leader.

That's awesome. That's so good. Well, remember when Alan Weissway talked about he did some work

from Merck over in the US and they brought in, so they hit companies of innovation awards

of the best innovation. They created one the best idea that failed. And they celebrated that.

I was like, that is such a good idea because yeah, two sides the same coin success. You got a love

value. I mean, I was there. I hate it like everyone else, but I'm not scared of it. I just like it,

but I'm not scared of it. Beautiful. It's a mic. Well, I'd like it, but I'm not scared of it. Liam, it's

always such such a treat to speak with you. Thank you so much. Oh, like I was. Miriam, thank you so

much for inviting me on the show. And I remember when I first heard you talk about on professionalism,

you saw how excited I was. It's so, so good. And congratulations on the podcast and the book

that will be out soon. But it's really just for flying the flag on this message. It's so,

it's so powerful, I think. So well done to you. This was a conversation without the script.

Now it's your turn. I'm Miriam Hathness and this has been unprofessionalism.