056 The Spiritual Mystery of Entropy

0:00Welcome back to the Bitcoin Reformation podcast where we are free, but yet again, two pastors who love Jesus and yes, Bitcoin to today, we are going to be talking about a word that maybe you have not heard in a long time or perhaps ever in that word is entropy. David is going to tell us a little bit more about where that word comes from and maybe we'll talk about what some examples of that arc as it's one of those words I think you might not have heard it might not use it ever, but you're actually aware of the concepts that it holds and means but by means of updating people first. I'll say this about our family our kids are in in school again and so that means that they are hearing things of faith at school and at home and so it's an amazing I mean it's exactly what a Christian school is meant to do reinforce the learning that takes place at the home first and foremost but it's amazing when you get to hear things back at you from school and things like that so a couple of instances in our life.

1:08Zoe brought home yesterday a piece of paper and she pulled it out and said, Dad, look at my Bible and so she had made a Bible and like decorated the Bible cover herself and like on the inside had did little scribbles for like writing the words on the page and just like the joy of look, I made my own Bible and my own Bible cover just amazing to see that and then Silas for dinner last night. We always ask the kids like, Hey, is there anything we should pray for before dinner like a, Hey, what should we pray for? Who should we pray for? And a lot of times, you know, they're little so it's not really we don't really get a whole bunch from them sometimes but Silas has begun to want to pray and so when we ask that he doesn't like tell us what we should pray for. Pray for he just starts saying thank you God for this thank you God for that thank you God for this and he just kept going and going sometimes which things that made sense and sometimes I have no idea what he was saying for those ones like, okay, buddy, like that's good you're thankful for every single thing that has ever existed.

2:16Can we eat dinner now please my belly is so great. So just to to great moments just kind of basking in you know the faith of a child who's growing and learning about you know what the world is that God made and on the different parts and facets of it it's a it brings joy. I would say to my heart to witness it as it's happening in front of my eyes so that that's what's going on over here otherwise things are well it's still hot as the dickens here. And I'm longing for the day when it's not but you know I can't change that so yeah. There you go Jim we were two days ago down to Glendale for yearly health scans for my wife we used to say all all looked great so that's great little bit of anxiety every year when that comes up but I bring that up to say boy it was like 109 degrees down the hill. On that day and we could not wait to get up here but then we come up here and for us you know it's 80s and warm 7000 feet 80s and the intense UV rays really heat things up and so we've gotten some walks some pleasant some not pleasant the house has been still hot at night even too much blue to technology jumping around well I was saying that a few days ago we went down to Glendale it was really hot.

3:41For the day a day trip for medical appointments and then back it is starting to break though and so I hope that that comes to to Las Vegas Jared I'm gosh I'm trying to think what's really going on here kids have all started school we're sort of adjusting to to their rhythms but boy it's really strange having only to left in high school and having them be juniors and seniors we have all these sort of capstone thoughts if. If students can get senioritis as seniors in high school I feel like we've got a little senioritis as parents when it comes to kids in sort of the K through 12 years we're already looking to the end of it not in our case maybe wishing it away but we can sort of taste a little bit what we think will be a bit of freedom on the far side apart from that not a whole lot to report pretty quiet here pretty quiet so hoping for those cool.

4:41So evenings to come well I've got a safe light repair man trying to come to the house here about an hour so we'll just keep pressing forward and Jared's time is maybe a little short today yeah and are talking about entropy maybe you have heard of this word maybe not I'll tell you where I had heard of it before Jared maybe the one and only place although I'd experienced it in many places in life the place I had heard about it was back in the day. Back in my high school physical sciences days particularly talking about physics itself and entropy comes up oftentimes when you come up the second law of thermodynamics that given enough time everything heads towards and I've heard it said this way before heat death or entropy things that are carefully ordered go to disorder through their constituent smallest parts.

5:41And I'm not going to get into a physics lessons it would be beyond me I'm sure but you know there's conversations of is the earth or the cosmos expanding or contracting what are the nature of things but I always probably thought of entropy at a more pedestrian level and it looks like this the things in my life are also falling apart right back in the Midwest we don't really have this anymore here's one piece I do not miss about Midwest living our vehicles many bad things happen to our vehicles but rust does not matter. It's not happened to them Jared I knew you know you grew up in Michigan you don't see a whole lot of old old vehicles in the Midwest and the older they get you know those side panels this quarter panels are getting chewed up by rust the frames themselves it's just part of kind of Midwest living where they heavily salt the roads here we don't salt roads for a variety of reasons some of it they just don't need salt there's no snow down the hill up here on the hill due to environmental reasons we don't salt. But our vehicles are falling away in some ways but not not due to rust entropy right not due to rust entropy so I first learned of entropy kind of colloquially as things fall apart given enough time and of course that would be the human body we might think of entropy that could be a sermon for a pastor he could I suppose introduce that on Ash Wednesday ashes to ashes dust to dust right given enough time and left to myself.

7:10Even with my own body good things are not happening and will not happen so entropy gets gets thrown in here sometimes it's used just simply as randomness and I think that's more where we're going today. You can think of maybe playing a card game as a family and you've got a discard pile if you were to go through that discard pile there's actually a lot of order you could find if you didn't know the rules of the game you might be able to slowly be able to figure out the rules of the game just by looking at the discard pile and how cards are ordered together by suit or number or run there's just things going on there and so what do we do between hands with cards. We introduce randomness we introduce entropy we either shuffle them and you can either bridge or not bridge you know you're I don't know that'll be another moment someday Jared on this podcast you'll say you know one of the little ones where play cards and they learned how to bridge the cards you know and shuffle that's right but before that you know when it's like old made you just what do you do you put in face down and you just make a slop pile and you introduce randomness well and you can see that's a lot of different things.

8:24entropy is a word important to the Bitcoin world and it's a world word that has come up because sadly something very negative happened on July 30 on July 30 a vulnerability to a series of Bitcoin cold storage wallets and that would be a device there's any number of companies that make them a device you would buy well to talk about these wallets now. So the idea is that it stores your Bitcoin and really when it comes to storing Bitcoin that's a strange thing because a Bitcoin's not a physical object I don't have that physical object with me be there's a way in which Jared I'm saying this to you as if you've never heard it and know you've heard it in which every Bitcoin exists on every node and sort of everywhere and know are all at once and what I as a Bitcoin owner actually have is I've never seen that. So what I'm going to do is I've got a secret I've got a secret that only I can see it there's a publicly facing side to the secret that you can see but with my secret I can prove to you and all people and to all the computers that I am the owner of a certain amount of Bitcoin or even certain chunks of Bitcoin and so that secret is really really important.

9:51We secrets are no no stranger I should have looked up like 2026 pop and worst passwords for securing email 14456789 exactly highly guessable right or or maybe I'm trying to crack it password 123 right I'm trying to crack into Jared's email and I'm guessing different things well I notice he's always wearing these. I have generously T shirts from thrive and any works for you don't work for thrive but let's say you work there I might I might say well instead of guessing all the things let me guess some things that I know about Jared he likes this give generously message message so you know I might throw into a computer all the little things I know about you Jared and it would take those and other things and try and combine them in different orders capitalize not throwing some numbers but bottom line if you're creating.

10:51A password a secret Jared and you're creating it with things in your life well I don't have to worry about all the possible guesses now i'm inclined to try and get to get to know things about you Jared so that that's a lot fewer possibilities even though it might still seem staggering it's a lot fewer possibilities than all the possibilities and then start guessing those so entries really really important you're right password 12345. Not so secure as it turns out you know what else is it secure password 123456 probably also not very secure you know or 12345 password not not so secure and so what you have and I in this also maybe is something easier for us to grasp now than even a few years ago with a lot of these password managers I still think I phones the predominant smartphone in America and now apple has passwords baked.

11:51In to their iOS and you've seen it you've probably seen some of the passwords then it's created for you it's it's it's randomness it's not words it's not David loves Megan o3 the year of our anniversary right exactly it's not that it's some odd mixture of capital and lowercase letters and numbers and then maybe special symbols the idea is. A known password is not random you want to you want to really truly reach for randomness there's a lot more security in that a bot out there or malicious actor can't guess that in the same way is they can guess some other ones based on some known things about you and your life well. Bitcoin also is like that except for it's a very very huge secret Jared i'm saying this like you don't know it's the idea is it uses something called Shaw 256 that's like taking the number two and two to the 256 power I wrote it down here that's like the number 10 with 77 zeros behind it that that's the number of combinations then.

13:14I remember the the thumb tumblr. Padlock combo Jared there's like four I think four dials it's one through nine or maybe zero through nine even right so that's a total of what is that 10,000 possibilities that. I mean you can 9,999 possibility you you could be there a long time guessing it could be a most of a week trying to guess that but that's a very discrete small amount of possibilities compared with the security normally with Bitcoin. Which is the Shaw 256 or 10 with 77 zeros behind it well that's a big number that's beyond my imagination we were doing that last recording we're doing that again now how do we kind of. size for ourselves kind of have our imaginations be able to begin to even grasp these big numbers well. Here's the convenient for us the scientists tell us Jared that Shaw 256 the number of overall possibilities for this Bitcoin secret for any given wallet is is roughly equivalent to the number of atoms in the known universe.

14:34Wow that's a lot of that's pretty random that is that is that is very very random yeah with only eight billion people which is a much smaller number. You could you could spend basically your whole lifetime a guess a second and if I picked one atom in the universe Jared you just wouldn't even come close to having randomly guess that one. And computers for as powerful as they are and as quickly as they could make those guesses also can't even come close to touching that so the strength behind securing Bitcoin which by the way is a lot stronger than any any bank account that any of the rest of us have. You know if my bank account password can be 26 characters and it could be letters or numbers capital or case special characters that pales in comparison so what i'm saying here is we trust sort of password protocols all the time that quite frankly use just a super super super small amount of this.

15:46This shot 256 blows all of that out of the water incredibly random. And the idea is when you set up your wallet you want to be able to truly create a random speed phrase or random secret that is yours that proves to the whole network that this Bitcoin is yours you want to be able to do that. And the problem on July 30th 2026 is we found out that one particular company one of their wallets it was an older wallet but they sold these wallets from like 2021 through 2023 or 24 I believe. It made it look like you had produced a random random seed phrase random secret but fact it was producing. It was giving you a secret from a much smaller subset of possibilities and somebody figured this out and then they trained a computer using AI to grow out and just begin saying basically go on to the whole internet say I have this secret I have this secret is there any Bitcoin attached to this.

16:59And if you have the secret and there's Bitcoin attached to it you can now choose to do something with that Bitcoin and they did they sent it to their own address and actual secure address and in so doing somewhere around a thousand wallets were emptied for a total of I think as it stands today somewhere around 1800 Bitcoin. I'm going to come up for air and give it to you Jared whether the entropy itself whether this cold card moment whether the number of wallets of the number of Bitcoin and perspective give it it to you here. Monal I'm done for the moment. No you set us up great so I think the thing I would want to just dive a little more on is like what what a cold storage wall it is. Yeah and I don't think we talked a lot on here about how it is kind of like a bank account password but I think that's a pretty good analogy for what a cold storage wall it is because unlike a maybe you think about the wallet in your pocket.

18:02And like my wallet here I don't think actually have any cash in my wallet because I'm a millennial so I don't have cash but if I had cash in here my cash is actually in my physical wallet like I'm actually holding it if I need to take it out of my wallet I'll give it to somebody that type of thing but that's not exactly what Bitcoin hard cold storage walls are so when you hear the words like ledger treasure treasure cold card is the name of this company or block stream. Jade their hardware wallets your Bitcoin isn't like living on that device it's not like it's sent into through the internet little particles go into that square shape and then live there it's much more similar to how when you log on to your bank account. With your password you prove to the bank I am the owner of this account assuming I have the right identification username and password combination and now these dollars are under my control and so I can send them maybe I can buy something with them on this I can pay my bills etc and so just like David said in the same way the Bitcoin that you have lives on a public ledger a public blockchain and all you have as your the word we would use is your private key.

19:17Or your password if you will allows you to control that Bitcoin and so the biggest difference between a public blockchain and a private key and a bank account and a password is that in Bitcoin there's no one there that can say well you stole that send it back. And you know there's pros and cons to that that that's good because then they also can't take it from you right they can't take it without your permission you're we would use the word sovereign over that but at the same time that onus of responsibility lies upon you then as the individual to make sure that no one gets that secret password because there's no ability for the bank to say oh no you can't use that you can't take that we're going to give it back to you. And so the importance of hiding that the importance of keeping it safe the importance of it actually having high levels of entropy is very very high and it might be a little bit too technical by I think it's helpful here to David that in.

20:23In the Bitcoin hardware wallet there are different structures and systems of storing that and so i'm just going to go very basic here because I think I think we can understand this so. There is what would be called a single signature wallet which mean there's one password so just like your bank account has one password you get in you've got access to those funds there are also things called multi signature wallets and those can vary in a lot of different ways but a very common one is that you need. Two of three different keys to control that Bitcoin so what that means is hey there are actually three separate devices that control this amount of Bitcoin that say hey I own this. And you need two of those to be able to send it so if you have wallet one two and three you can do one in three two and three three and one whatever the combination is you just need two of them to be able to send it. So if someone finds out your password you're key for one of them you're okay because they don't have another one right and so the issue for this cold card incident was single.

21:37Signature wall single key wallets and so when someone got access to that single key there was no one there's no other you know what they needed to also find there's no other information they need to find because. That was the single password that control the keys to the Bitcoin and so then you you lose access to it and so what why is this a problem why why is this such a huge deal especially in like our community i gotta go get the door i'll be right back.

23:49you. All right i'm back can you hear me yeah okay. So why this is a problem i forget what i was actually talking about now but why it's a problem is because of the signal signature stuff but it's also i was a problem because a lot of people i would say this was like a. Very popular brand in the Bitcoin world and it assumed we as Bitcoin people we assumed that the hardware we were using or people were using had done this high levels of entropy and so then when this happened in some ways you thought you were.

24:58Safe and secure when you are not and and for that reason i think it was a very i mean somewhere over now but it was a really kind of like scary thing at least it was for me david like a hey because i've heard it over and over again and you can probably test this to. That people will say the most powerful thing about Bitcoin is that you can. Carried across borders with 12 single words right i mean i've heard that said over and over again and so for these people they had done the single signature wallet. And they had their 12 words maybe 24. But it wasn't enough. Right and it wasn't necessarily because of just the whole entire 12 word itself it was the entropy of those 12 words. But but it was it's a huge thing i think that. Cause at least me to say like hey. What what is entropy how are these passwords gen the private keys generated because i just never you know when you so when you hear one more thing and i'll talk to us back to you when you.

26:08Make a hardware wallet or when you start a new one. It will usually the hardware wallet will just give you 12 words like it will say starting a new one and i don't know about you but i can say for me i've never thought. You know maybe i should come up with my own 12 words right or maybe i should do my own thing i just say okay i'm assuming. That those 12 words are good enough. And what this kind of showed was well that's not necessarily the truth or it's not as simple as that or we need to make sure we need to verify. Etc. Or so i'll come up for air now and toss it back to you yeah no this is absolutely great and again somebody might say well couldn't you see that your number was short or no all the numbers that were generated were. Were were looked visually looked like they're one of the valid numbers and in fact they were one of the valid combinations. The problem was somebody figured out that these devices as you pointed out which were offering to say hey we can not only. Store your secret but we can produce your secret for you right.

27:12We're we're producing them out of a much smaller subset of possibilities so if shot 256 if it roughly equates to as many combinations as there are atoms in the universe. I asked i talked with a clawed about this two or three weeks ago i said. What we found out was that the the combinations with with cold card in this case instead of being to to the 256 power it was something like two to the 40th power much much smaller. And even still huge though even two to not yeah even two to the 41st power doubles two to and then two to the the 42nd powers doubles again so it's a it's a it's a doubling right it's. It's a it's a huge growth from one power to the next so it's supposed to be two to the 50 256 it's at two to the two to the 40th power I asked I asked uh Cloud well what household item would be of that size well what the that's that he's ready so instead of picking out.

28:16One combination in the known universe Jared. The the the the bad actors here who went looking said oh my goodness we just need to pick out one combination and it was like the number of atoms and the size of a speck of household dust. All right wow sure yeah a lot of it's got a lot of dust in our house much smaller right and so that's what they did so um if you if you go all the way out and you can sufficiently have a what they call an RNG a random number. Generator that's truly doing it out to the 256 possibilities two to 256 possibilities and is actually doing it in a random fashion. Uh wonderful well somebody might be saying boy I we might somebody might say I was thinking about cold storage but now he's listening to you talk I wouldn't do it well a couple of things um The exchanges where people buy it do have incentive to offer a lot a lot a lot of security right if they have a breach in security just like with cold card that's kind of the end of their reputation and um

29:30minimally sets them back into business model maximally puts them out of business we will see for instance what happens to coin kite in the coming months. This this company as you pointed out used to be sort of the gold standard and now people are questioning it how could they let such a thing happen right um I'll say this a thousand wallets is a lot 1800 Bitcoin while every bit of that to the people who had saved it is devastating I was expecting a much larger number as I guess what I was going to say I was expecting thousands tens of thousands of Bitcoin maybe to have been lost and it was right around 18. 100 so I don't want to minimize that but you can you're going to be trusting somebody somewhere right you want to trust an institution and then these cold card are these cold water providers are saying we're providing a way for you hopefully to trust fewer people. There's still some trust involved and clearly the whole market has woken up to that again as with coin base again the problem here wasn't the ability to hold the secret it was the ability to actually randomly out of the whole set of possibilities produce the secret or produce the password all right so I've been asking myself this Bitcoiners often talk Jared about um about Bitcoin as money.

30:56That separates money. From government or money from the state right it's got this fixed supply of 21 million it's coded into the software the software is distributed across hundreds of thousands computers across the world. If even if we could get 51% of the people to vote we want to change it so that's 42 million the incentives just don't align that would mean that any Bitcoin that anybody has is cut at least an half right in terms of its value the incentive for anybody who holds Bitcoin and who runs a node who runs a copy of this ledger is for it to say the same fixed amount of supply well hopefully over time increasing my personal supply. Right that's that's where everybody who's a part of Bitcoin typically has that in one sense selfish inclination but it's a selfish inclination that actually serves the whole group and serves future people who might come into the group because it keeps that supply fixed and we know that it's the quote unquote printing of money around the world.

32:06So we know that it really is the biggest problem with monies around the world right now so bring it back I want to be able to door my secret safely here's what we know cold card didn't have that issue and we're not aware of any other cold storage wallets that have that issue. So I'm not going to talk about the very secret that now it's offering to store and it didn't generate it well so just like we talk about separating money from government I personally my philosophy now going forward is I want to separate my secret generation from my device that actually holds it. I don't know about other people talking about that but you go back to cold card cold card did not admittedly force anybody to use their random number generator it was just the easiest path. One of the things you can do is for like $10 you can get sticks like Las Vegas grade dice I'm looking to you Jared did you live in Las Vegas clear that you know all about these dice and Las Vegas grade dice but you know you want good dice and you can literally do something like fish.

33:18And you can literally do something like 50 or 100 dice rolls and you just write down the results and people have a framework that you can produce incredible randomness with those and produce your seed phrase with that again now that's you using some other means to produce your secret or your password that now your device is going to store and to be clear to our listeners you don't have to pay for an electric device to store your your secret. You can actually like literally with dice produce a secret from that secret you could get a public address so this would be the difference between like the key maybe into I'm thinking of a seminary when I went there Jared we had the mail room seminary in St. Louis right and everybody's mailbox had a combination but I think there was still like a slot in the front of the box. Right. Your public address is a slot where anything can go in but you have to have the secret to open it and get what has been put in there and so that's the difference you actually don't need to pay for an electronic device you can kind of in an old fashioned literally dice and paper and pencil and following the right instructions you can produce for yourself both your secret your password and sort of your mail slot.

34:45That's that you can send Bitcoin there over time eventually though you're you're going to have to engage with some electronic device to prove to the whole network I have the secret therefore I want to send some amount of my Bitcoin to Jared so that he and the wife and the kids can have a birthday party or who knows what that's kind of ridiculous but the idea is once you want to move it you need to probably have a device like a cold storage wallet to be able to prove to everybody that you have control this Bitcoin and then send that Bitcoin but nevertheless this was all very sad because people trusted that sufficient entropy or randomness had been produced and it had not it had not. But I think there is a place I know we want to we're going to get to like the spiritual implications of entropy that's where we're going but I want to say a little bit about the call it custody options right so we've talked before about like the different hardware wallets we've talked about storing things on a place like coin base or I know some of us use strike to buy Bitcoin or

36:09storing it in an ETF and things like that and the pros and cons amongst all of them and I I don't know if this makes me a weirdo or not but I do believe there's a place in a time to not have your Bitcoin and cold storage right like for some people that would be harmful to them like it would not be good because of the amount of challenges the amount of difficulty there's a lot better options that way. So Jack Dorsey's company I think it's called bit key I think would be a good place if you're like hey I want to do this but I'm not sure I'm ready for super hard stuff and I'm also not the type that would say well it's so easy anybody can do it or you know you're the problem if you don't want to learn that's on you that sure that might be true to some extent but I also think of you know call him grandma Schmidt if she buys Bitcoin I'm not going to tell grandma Schmidt to put it on the table.

37:09But I think they're probably not going to be able to put her Bitcoin probably on a cold storage wallet like for her it's probably just going to be easier if she buys it buys either the ETF or you know buys it through a company like coin base and so I am not in the Bitcoin world there's a the people that they might be labeled Bitcoin maximalist I do not think I fit that mold in this regard because I think many people would say if you're not doing it on cold storage you're not a true true Bitcoin or in I just I don't know what that's going to be like. I don't I don't necessarily believe that follow it in that way too so I would say you know even me who's been in the world for what four or five years or something like that I felt after this like oh my goodness do I need to you know convert all of this to an ETF and just hold it in like an account and you know allow the custody to go to somebody else I mean it was that that's that's where I was in the span of those days feeling like the the thing that I need to do is I need to do that.

38:09I think you or thought was good with somehow now not as good and so I think it's okay to say hey if you hear all that and it sounds scary well at least make sure you go and learn how to do it if you want to do it but also that it's not you're not a bad person which is even sound silly like you're not a bad person for not using cold storage so I think I think it's important for us to at least say that out loud. That I my Bitcoin was secured using a cold card device it was not the device thankfully that was under consideration here I didn't know that when I first heard the news I thought it was and mine was just you know kind of one iteration removed and likely from what we know now also didn't have sufficient entropy had better entropy but still not sufficient so yeah it was a scary half day day. Two days for me for us as well and it's given me a chance to now make use of a different setup multi signature setup I'm actually happy to say that here because you know you couldn't you couldn't come to me right now and and get all my Bitcoin because it's multi signature and my some of my signatures are in other places and or tied up for an amount of time right

39:36right so it'd be like hey give me your wallet and I'd be like well I've got half like I've got like literally torn and half bills there the other half of them are in a different location we would need to drive there and people might notice right and you need both halves kind of the tape together to go to the bank something like this so it's caused me to change my security setup but it's still a worthy conversation in disregard somebody has to securely be holding and storing the Bitcoin and anybody who's securely storing it has to do it with sufficient entropy so even if like I buy I bit which is I think the fidelity ETF Jared I'm counting on fidelity or Blackrock thank you thank you I'm counting on Blackrock to to safely custody this somebody there Blackrock they their security team has had to figure out their security setup and there is a seed phrase or a secret a password there as well and so on line the further you go into this world at some point it'd be good for you the average here the average person engaging at Bitcoin to just sort of understand this about it

41:00this this saying oh man but my my Bitcoin secured by a password well guess what everything in this world is I do have this to say to you when sufficiently created it is a safer much more robust password than anything else I use in the rest of my life to secure from medical records to 401k's 403b's I mean on down through through all of it really bank accounts credit cards all of that looks like child's play compared to a sufficiently created Bitcoin seed phrase or password or secret depending on what you want to call it so there's some good news there but something we should all appreciate your right though there are companies where now I can roll the dice to create the password the seas phrase you mentioned bit key bit key helps you do that and it is multi-sig there's company like unchained and pasta that will help you set up your multi-sig devices and schema to secure that so you can pay essentially security companies to help you set up where you're working with experts again trade-offs everywhere trade-offs everywhere why would we engage in this it sizes a little bit scary we might engage in it because this it's a chance to ask for a

42:27chance to actually own something that nobody can print more of right I'm personally jared maybe more than anything else I'm trying to protect as best I can and asset that I can actually purchase and hold that nobody else out there can debate nobody else out there can debate I can own stock in a company and then that company can go and sell they can just keep issuing more and more stocks and base the value of my stock real estate on the one hand the nobody's really printing more real estate but when we get motivated we can build up right or we can clear out a forest or we can put a home on stills where we didn't think one could be the geography of the world certainly is limited but even real estate is not totally fixed gold we're constantly finding more of and now we've located asteroids that we think are like 80% gold who knows someday that sounds kind of sci-fi but certainly there is a limited supply of gold in the whole universe but we've probably only begun to touch that supply as human people I guess you could say so for all of this I'm willing to learn these things engage in these things and do what at first feels a little uncomfortable but then honestly becomes a great comfort to me I'm willing to do all this

43:54because it's my chance to secure something that otherwise can't be debased can't be melted away so I want to say that through our listeners as well well maybe it's time to make that turn Jared what do you think let's do it it's so interesting that we're securing things by entropy which is like by heat death you know secure things by death and we have a god who said death is not good in fact he saw our sin our rebellion he saw and knows that the wages of that sin and rebellion are death and then he went the way of death himself through his son to rob death of its power and free us from it and so there's a there's a few different directions you could go from even that Jared but I just couldn't help but sort of marvel at the irony that the best security we can come up with relates to this kind of heat death

45:00of kind of smashing everything into its smallest parts and saying ha now we've created true randomness and in that randomness I can be secure but here we have a god who names the stars and numbers the stars we have solmous to say I tried fleeing from the Lord right I tried running from him you know and I go to even those places and there he is waiting for us for me right that I'm secure from that sort of randomness I can feel lonely day today I suppose I can feel invisible but to this god I am not alone I'm not visible or how about this we can secure billions of dollars worth of wealth with a seed phrase that's been secured from from the number two to the 256

46:00power that many number of possibilities but check this out while that's true the human genome I check this out the number of possible genetic pairs that make up our DNA and the human genome is like the number two to the 3.2 billionth power Jared that's how unique and wonderfully we are made right the number of atoms in the universe is nothing compared to the design of the human person by this god and again as if that weren't enough he says no no no no I don't want you to go the way of death I'll go the way of death to rescue you from its clutches and he does that by his death and resurrection so again a lot of different directions there Jared but this idea of entropy I can't help but to think of it in theological dimensions as well this is interesting you went the way of the like heat death and stuff because the place I ran to I think when you first proposed this was the idea of like we're trying to find something that's almost unknowable you know and so it's this idea that we're creating a number or set of phrase that is beyond human you know knowledge and understanding and so then you know my mind goes well

47:30God actually knows it right it's not it's not the the number is not too big for God and it's this idea of hey we're we're trying to almost do the do the impossible work of creating something beyond ourselves so to say beyond our human limits it I don't think we're trying to be God per say but we're trying to do something that is very much outside of our realm of understanding you know create something that no one could ever guess no one could ever find out you know as long as I hold that secret but yet that you know the Psalms talk about how before a word is on our tongue oh Lord you know it altogether you know when I rise when I wake you know all of those things so it is really awe inspiring when you think about hey you know this thing this phrase is a uniqueness or kind of like are you saying that the human genome is very unique

48:31that it's so unique no one else knows this thing in a world where everything is shared online how unique is it that I know something no one else in the world knows but at the same time how much more awe inspiring is it that the same God who created the universe the same God who spoke it into being right who sent his son to die rise for you for me also already knew that thought that I had he knew the words that we're going to be on my mouth you know when I was upset because of the kids were doing this or that thing like it's it's just a small maybe the theological word we use would be type or a foreshadowing of the greatness of God and how much he knows and how much more capable he is and so even you can tie that into the whole like quantum computing thing right they're inspiring to us because it's like wow look at all the things that this computer will be able to know or do and yet all of it fails to the almighty knowledge of our God in a way that again leads me to worship leads me to a place of awe and then also you know so I make comes to mind at the same time right so who is man that you are mindful of him so who are we that that same

49:48almighty awesome powerful perfect being is caring and gives two cents about you and me and our families in the world that he would do what he did in his son Jesus so it's funny you went that way and I was like I could go this way and see just it's beautiful that these sort of things kind of push us to think about and see faith in a different way which again is maybe part of that whole Bitcoin is a part in the thing that God has used to bring people back to the faith yeah it is interesting there's something I think Bitcoin acknowledges several things that we at least in order to sort of running with the spirit of the age we don't acknowledge acknowledges limits it acknowledges scarcity right that's real different I mean we all run into scarcity all the time in life but with our words we try to push back against scarcity with things like hey John you can be anything you want to be right you know I actually find that message to young people to be offensive

51:03you know what do you realize it yeah or literally do you say that to the paralyzed person you can be anything you want to be you can do anything you want to do you're right it kind of can cripple people with possibilities it's also just not actually true you can probably all of us be more than we think we can at times right people seeing us what we can't see in ourselves God certainly gives us graciously to do many things but there's plenty of things I can't be so we're constantly trying to maybe sort of in in ways that I are adulterous we're trying to push back against scarcity and specificity right we want it's interesting for to secure Bitcoin we smash everything down to the number of possibilities in heat death and there we find a sort of security and yet we have a God who puts things together right we are fearfully and wonderfully made and yet in our sin the wages of sin is death and he sees us headed to heat death and and does something about it well heat

52:22death and worst judgment right and does something about takes the judgment upon himself takes death upon itself he breaks the bonds of death and now just as he lives he gives I just there's a lot of dimensions here that I agree with you and that this is something we've been up to in with and hopefully some some future guests on the show will be able to talk with us about it as well there does seem to be a can ship between the Christian faith and Bitcoin you've seen it both ways you've seen there's a lot of Christians in Bitcoin pretty naturally maybe maybe just in the United States there's more Christians than Buddhist maybe that's it though I don't know but when you talk with Christians who are in Bitcoin it really resonates with them because it's it's it's it's it's the system that respects people it says there are there are monetary sins and I like this tool over here more because it keeps the people from being robbed it it aws at the fact that Bitcoin is which is digital is tied though to the physical world through the mining process right it loves that fact it sees in Bitcoin away from us to be served but also our neighbors you know level

53:42play and feel this this excites the Christian person and a lot of Christian people are finding it but it's also true that we keep hearing from Bitcoiners who had at least maybe walked far from the Christian faith of their youth that having come back to Bitcoin now they're really looking at their Christian faith again right and maybe for some of those same qualities maybe for some of those same qualities so that could be pretty pretty exciting well Jared with kind of maybe introduce it hopefully we didn't give our listeners too much anxiety about cold storage it is something you have to respect but so are all the good things in life right from strapping babies as you and your wife do in the back of your car and driving them places you're you've made a lot of value judgments over time about the safety of the roads the reliability of your vehicle even your own skills you know we're constantly doing this things with precious cargo so to speak well Bitcoin our thinking is precious cargo why because it's a better money for a better world right and it does need to be stored or custody that I was even thinking Jared that there's parables about this about custody of valuables from varying treasure in a field to a woman who has a lot of money

55:06in a field to a woman who had a gold coin and she lost it in her house and she cleans the whole house until she finds it again so there's nothing new about actually having things of value and trying to keep them secure and being anxious in the moment when they're not secure and re securing them there's nothing new about that it is true the particular ins and outs of Bitcoin and securing Bitcoin the first time you hear it's new but then you learn about it and you want to secure your cargo so that's part of this discussion but part of it also is just this fun where we ended today I think that as well this this fun interplay this devotional thinking about our own faith that we have a God who does not leave us to entropy no we are fearfully wonderfully made left to our own sinfulness that is the way we and all would go and yet he comes our way again and he doesn't just tell us where to go he actually enters the place where we don't want to go on our behalf a is the price is the great substitute and acts a happy exchange it's just absolutely absolutely wild Jared this this God we have I was thinking also real quickly of the title of one of the books from 1517 from author Chad bird it's called the Christ key so much about what we were talking about today the past were the key

56:31God says you shall not enter into my presence unless you are holy and have the key to holiness and he in Christ Jesus makes us holy and Jesus himself is the key by which now we enter before God's presence so he demands that we must have the right key to enter and then he gives us and all the key it's just rather rather amazing last word to you Jared I'll say this that in some ways you could say God has sent Jesus because of the entropy in the world that our bodies is the effects of sin break down over time become dysfunctional and broken and ultimately die and yet the sort of story and arc of creation starts with the God who takes everything that's created

57:31and then it's easy unordered right in makes order of it he calls things that were not to be and then sin introduces that sort of randomness chaos into the world again right things are not okay things are not how they should be not in the line he sends Jesus to begin his work of bringing that entropy back to nothing because there'll be a day when his son right when there will be no sickness no pain no illness no death no crime no morning because Jesus will be back with his people he will be their light and we will be with him forever and so just a kind of a beautiful story of the arc of creation seen in the end the lot the lens of entropy as well so glad that you've been with us today listener what do you think about this let us know hopefully we didn't scare you too far away like David did but if we did let us know we'd like to hear about to otherwise we'll see you next time

58:31as we gather to talk about our love for Jesus but yes for Bitcoin too thanks for being here