064 | 秘密会议：传统、权力、和当今的寓言 Conclave: A parable of our time

【2025戛纳电影节 2025 Cannes Film Festival】 节目开始之前，和大家说一声，疲惫娇娃的几个女的已经空降戛纳参加电影节了！请关注我们的同名小红书账号看来自戛纳的更新。 We have landed in Cannes for the film festival! Follow us on Xiaohongshu for more updates from Cannes. 【聊了什么 The What】 本期疲惫娇娃，我们聊的是2024年的电影Conclave ——一部设定在教皇去世之后、围绕选出新一任教皇展开的电影。在这部由Edward Berger执导、Ralph Fiennes主演的作品中，观众得以窥见那场始终被神秘包围的梵蒂冈教皇选举：密室中的拉票、权力的计算、秘密的揭露，以及制度对个人的塑形与反噬。 我们从电影谈起，延伸到对天主教会体制的讨论：它如何用神圣维系秩序，又如何将改革压制在传统之下。影片中的主角们不仅是宗教人物，更是复杂的政治人类；而那些隐于画面边缘的修女、工作人员，则承载着最深的情感张力与结构性的沉默。 节目中也会提到最近现实中那位“美国出生的教皇”所引发的舆论回响，从中对照出Conclave所描绘的制度困境与文化裂缝。在一个讲求现代化的时代，信仰、怀疑、服从与转变之间的冲突从未停止，反而愈加微妙。在这集播客，我们也借着Conclave，用元视角反思了我们几个主播过去几年的信仰和布道。 In this episode of Cyberpink, we discuss the 2024 film Conclave — a story set in the aftermath of a pope’s death, centered on the secretive process of electing his successor. Directed by Edward Berger and starring Ralph Fiennes, the film offers a rare look inside the Vatican’s cloistered world: backroom deals, power games, hidden truths, and the way institutions shape — and consume — the individuals within them. Starting with the film, we move into a broader conversation about the structure of the Catholic Church: how it uses sacredness to maintain order, and how tradition often suppresses the possibility of reform. The protagonists in Conclave are not just religious figures — they are deeply political beings. And those who remain on the margins of the screen — nuns, aides, staff — carry the film’s quietest, yet most intense emotional weight. We also touch on the recent real-world election of the first U.S.-born pope and the media discourse surrounding it, drawing parallels with Conclave's portrayal of institutional tension and cultural fracture. In a world increasingly shaped by modernity, the conflicts between faith, doubt, obedience, and transformation have only grown more intricate. We also used Conclave as a lens to go meta, to reflect our journeys as long-term podcasters, examining our beliefs and evangelism over the past few years. 【买咖啡 Please Support Us】 如果喜欢这期节目并愿意想要给我们买杯咖啡： 海外用户：https://www.patreon.com/cyberpinkfm 海内用户：https://afdian.com/a/cyberpinkfm 商务合作邮箱：[email protected] 商务合作微信：CyberPink2022 If you like our show and want to support us, please consider the following: Those Abroad: https://www.patreon.com/cyberpinkfm Those in China: https://afdian.com/a/cyberpinkfm Business Inquiries Email: [email protected] Business Inquiries WeChat: CyberPink2022 【时间轴 The When】 00:00 — Conclave电影本影也没想到自己会因教皇方济各逝世而意外获得现实相关性，成为2025年最火的电影 03:50 — 现实中的美国出生的教宗Pope Leo XIV承认在真正的Conclave前也看了电影 04:40 — 什么是“Conclave”？拉丁语意为“上锁的房间”——一种自13世纪起流传至今的选教皇仪式 06:15 — 黑烟与白烟：那些宣布教皇当选的古老烟雾信号，也曾锁门限食以逼出结果 11:30 — 初观感：神秘又幽默，教廷政治竟然有点像校园食堂地缘政治问题？主角Lawrence像一个疲惫又需要收拾烂摊子的VP 19:13 — Lawrence想辞职，前任教皇说他是个“农场经理”而非“牧羊人”——讨论教皇制度管理与灵性角色的张力。疲惫娇娃进入meta状态，反思自己过去几年的信仰和布教 30:30 — 影片中Lawrence的一句台词引发共鸣：“确定性是团结的大敌，是宽容的死敌”——它如何映射当代的分裂与政治疲劳？疲惫娇娃继续meta 50:00 — 位关键女性角色：Sister Agnes，一个在结构之外但洞察深刻的“隐身者”。以及为什么我们要反复说女性角色 01:03:10 — 大结局讨论：一个意想不到的人选成为教皇，我们如何解读这个“神迹”。 00:00 — The film Conclave likely never expected to gain such sudden real-world relevance after the death of Pope Francis, becoming one of the most talked-about movies of 2025 03:50 — In real life, the newly elected U.S.-born Pope Leo XIV admitted he watched Conclave before the actual conclave took place 04:40 — What is a "Conclave"? The term comes from Latin, meaning “a locked room” — referring to the centuries-old papal election ritual that dates back to the 13th century 06:15 — Black smoke or white smoke: the ancient visual signals used to announce papal election results. In earlier centuries, cardinals were even locked in and given limited food to force a decision 11:30 — First impressions: the film is mysterious yet funny. The political dynamics of the Vatican strangely resemble cafeteria geopolitics. The main character, Lawrence, comes across like an exhausted VP cleaning up institutional messes 19:13 — Lawrence wants to resign. The previous Pope calls him a “farm manager” rather than a “shepherd” — sparking a discussion on the tension between institutional maintenance and spiritual leadership. The hosts go meta, reflecting on their own relationship to faith and public engagement in recent years 30:30 — A line from Lawrence resonates: “Certainty is the great enemy of unity, the deadly enemy of tolerance.” The hosts explore how this speaks to contemporary political polarization and collective fatigue — and continue the meta reflection 50:00 — A key female character is introduced: Sister Agnes, a perceptive “invisible” figure operating outside the official structure. The hosts dig into why they keep returning to the role of women in the film 01:03:10 — Final act discussion: an unexpected figure is elected Pope — how do we interpret this so-called “miracle”? 【拓展链接 The Links】 Inside the Politics of the Papal Conclave – The New York Times (May 4, 2025) How a Film About the Pope Became Reality – The New York Times (April 21, 2025) Campaigning for the Papacy? Vatican Grapples With the Unspoken – The New York Times (April 28, 2025) 【疲惫红书 CyberRed】 除了播客以外，疲惫娇娃的几个女的在小红书上开了官方账号，我们会不定期发布【疲惫在读】、【疲惫在看】、【疲惫旅行】、【疲惫Vlog】等等更加轻盈、好玩、实验性质的内容。如果你想知道除了播客以外我们在关注什么，快来小红书评论区和我们互动。 Apart from the podcast, we have set up an official account on Xiaohongshu. We will periodically post content such as “CyberPink Reading,” “CyberPink Watching,” “CyberPink Traveling,” “CyberPink Vlog,” and more. Those are lighter, more fun, and more experimental stuff about our lives. Leave us some comments on Xiaohongshu!