090926 ~ Copycat Crimes: Why Do They Happen? - Frank Rubino

0:00Copycat crimes. Why do they happen? We go on the go to a psychotherapist Frank Rebino on the Lucian Lance show Ann Arbor's talk station 1290 WLBY What is considered a copycat crime Frank? Lucian so copycat crime is a crime that is committed that has been inspired by a sensationalized other type of crime one that's become similar to that one that and it was a Term that was coined in the early 19 or the 20th century in reference to Jack the Ripper so the the details of his crimes became popularized in the media of the age and so people were committing started to commit crimes similar to that one and someone called it a copycat crime Why would they do that? That I think is the big question is why do people engage in these kinds of activities? And it turns out that it's not just one reason there are a number of factors that go into it one of them is

1:07interestingly that usually these types of crimes are Not committed by people who have never committed a crime before Normally these are people who have a criminal history anyway and so as to say they they already have a Baked in ability to violate the law violate the rules maybe even commit serious Crimes against persons and then they see the sensationalization of these crimes and they want a piece of that Popular action is that a realization that something was committed that They could do and they hadn't thought of I Think part of it's that part of it is the notoriety I think the notoriety is maybe a really large if if though if there's a pie that has all the different features I think notoriety might be the biggest piece of that pie. Well, this is that sense to where when someone Is a mass murderer or does something heinous not to reveal their name?

2:13That it gives them the power of knowing that people now are aware that they did this Well, there any connection with that Oh for sure There's a there's a huge connection to people wanting in fact We saw in some in some crimes come copycat crimes that were committed There were notes left in reference to other types of those crimes. We saw this with shooters who reference to other large shootings and and the the shooters in those early crimes and as saying I want to be like this person I want to you know I want to Match the the carnage and the damage so we do know these things are connected Even after some of these Some of these criminals die in the commission of these crimes They leave writings behind that indicate where they where they got the ideas could this also be the sense that When someone sees something happen and they see the result of it they think oh that can be done now. I'm going to do it

3:16Right and sometimes they look at somebody who is caught and they say well, I can do that I just simply won't make that particular mistake We saw this with the zodiac killer We saw a couple of copycats of him Who committed similar crimes left notes for the police and did things like that only to get caught by tripping themselves up in other ways. Frank was he the one in New York the zodiac killer was that the one where he Encounter people that were in cars or something Yeah, and I'm not really sure he's ever actually been been identified Even even to this day. I think there's been a number of times I've said that they've caught him and etc. I'm not really sure they actually ever did Um, although I think they may say that they have You know what the heck is wrong with people I just it makes me just wonder and it makes you not want to get to know anyone because you don't know them You don't know what they what a capable of

4:16I think that yeah, I think though that you're your sense of who people are and how they are would pick up on some of these Audities. Oh, I'm sure of it. I'm sure of it but I think that For some of the people who commit these kinds of crimes. I think they're already As I alluded to earlier living in the margins a bit and somebody who Will Probably go on to commit one of these copycat crimes is probably going to be wearing the t-shirts for people to see If you're looking for it, and I don't think you would be surprised So is there a type of crime that begets copycat more often than others? murder Murder is the one that that seems to be the one that garners the most uh most copycat Crime because that's also the one that's most sensationalized If somebody breaks into a closed gas station or party story you're not making movies about it Even even if you look at tv shows and films like the screen series

5:19Films and breaking bad those series there were a number of crimes that were linked to those Those and those were fictional. Oh, so I was going to ask you that doesn't have to be a real life crime then No, in fact the the the show I never saw it but there's one dexter. I think it's about a serial killer right There there've been copycat crimes related to that show that people people see these things Playing on the screen and then they think you know what I could do this and get away with With killing that's lion's seat and let's get into that a minute before we try to figure out these copycat people They who spend a lot of criticism about Hollywood and the kinds of things that they're pumping out for people to consume How concerned are you about that? Well, I'm always concerned that people in the margins are gonna do do strange things and I think we can't We can't First of all, I think those movies are filth Personally, and I think that they don't really have any place that said I'm kind of a free speech guy

6:22So I think that they should be able to do what they want. I just wish people would stop giving them their money and that would stop the You know them making these films But I do think that they they they inspire a certain category of people who are open to doing those kinds of things And I don't think it's a big enough percentage to say we shouldn't have or allow those things to be done I just think it's sad. So what do we do about all of this to yeah, tell this when you've got people that are living their lives in the margins and can pop out because of Something that entices them like this. Yeah, so a couple things I think can be done one of them is and I've said this for years Is that when somebody commits one of these heinous crimes? We should never identify them first of all You should never give their name We should never give the details of the crime That's the other piece of this that the copycat seemed to glob on to is that they research all the details of the crime in order to help give them ideas about how to improve on

7:24On some of those so I would say keep the details of the crime secret keep the identities secret Stop sensationalizing and the use of sensationalized language that the media and the law enforcement uses Those kind of things should go away stick just to the facts and Move on with the news stories so that we so that there's nobody there for the people living in the margins to want to mirror their life After or these acts you know why I also think that's important. It's because it's so unfair to their family members Who had nothing to do with this person's behavior and yeah at least you're you're assuming they didn't but it just isn't I feel so sorry sometimes For mothers fathers grandparents who get dragged into something because they have the same name or it's known that that's their relative It's just a very sad fact of life and to your credit. I think what you're saying is

8:26Is absolutely right then and coming from a free free speech guy as you said Well, yeah, well you're speaking of family I think that's the other the other aspect is that instead of focusing on the perpetrator of the crime Focus on the victim And when you when you talk when you use the same amount of airtime talking about this incredible loss It creates more anger in the populace and empathy Than it does fascination for whoever committed the crime. I think though because normal people are so fascinated by this because they would never walk that line much less cross it But see this is where the psychology of it comes in and I think this is also where this is very interesting I think that for as many people who say they would never do it and I believe would never do it That's as many people who think about it Maybe fantasize a little bit about it, but would never do it And I think that's that that's that place where the films and these things can live where people can

9:29Vicariously step into that role for an hour and a half and then step back out and not have the desire to do it You know what they're missing don't you What's that? God religion faith yeah Yeah, well for sure I think anybody who seriously considers these things is is probably dancing with with the demonic And maybe not even probably I think for sure that's it And I think we forget that there's an awful lot of that going on there a lot people might call it evil If they don't want to say that that that demons exist or whatever, but For sure there's there's evil there And when people dance with that I think that becomes very dangerous So I would I'd be cautious of people who Of the behavior not of people, but of the behavior of being fast that's fascinated With with these individuals to the point where they may want to start replicating Of the behavior Uh, we had talked about true crime novels in the past couple weeks ago too Where does that fit into this conversation today

10:30With our love of reading about cases and how they evolve Well, I think as a couple of different motivators The people who truly want to understand and that's a motivation There are people who want to understand so that they can kind of help Push people away from those kinds of lives And then there are the people who are fascinated because they're fascinated with the power That the the criminal has in the moment that they commit these heinous acts Those are the ones that I that I'm concerned about We're talking with Frank Rabino. He's a psychotherapist that practices out of Plymouth, Michigan and you can look him up by googling frank Rabino Are you be I know and the words psychology today on that website? He has a nice landing page. So Frank I want you to tell us For all of us out there that think we are decent Normal moral individuals Is there something that we need to know or something we can do

11:31In case we do get pushed to that limit by someone by something where we Can't stop ourselves from doing something we know is wrong So first of all, I don't think there's a I can't stop myself I think that there can be a point of no return With our actions, but I think that there's a lead up and if you are open and honest with yourself And you're open to having discussions with other people People that are trustworthy who can talk you out of doing something stupid We all want to surround ourselves with the people who tell us to do everything We want to support we always want our yes men around us But the true friend the true relative somebody who can talk to tell you hey, this is a really bad idea You shouldn't keep going on this path We need to have in our lives and we can talk openly about our feelings and things even our fantasies Uh, and then not be and not be inspired to do them This is where a good psychotherapist comes in

12:32You can tell a psychotherapist hey, these are my fantasies and I would say you know what it's okay to have a fantasy about something You just can't do it and sometimes letting that fantasy take a walk and talk about it Is enough to ease the pressure of then uh feeling compelled to act so are they missing something though about consequences? Because many times after these types of things happen and there's a copycat to it You already know that the person uh was caught or is in jail or you know isn't living his or her life anymore Why doesn't that stop someone from doing a copycat and murder? I think that part of this is that people view themselves as having no value anymore These are people who who are at a place where they feel I don't matter my life doesn't matter either I won't survive this and that's okay But my name and my recognition will And so they get to that place or their narcissistic and dumb enough to believe that they can actually get away with it

13:33Which maybe even worse frank Rabino psychotherapist we go on the couch with him each week here on Ann Arbor's talk station 1290 WLBY