1166: BEST OF SHOW: Marie Flanigan: Leveraging Relationships and Making Decisions in Interior Design

Welcome to a well-designed business.

My name is Luanne Igarra and I'm so glad you found this podcast.

Together with my husband Vince and our partner Bill, we have grown our company Windowworks

from the ground up.

So I know and I understand the challenges you face in running your interior design business.

I also know that your talent alone isn't enough to ensure your success.

So on this podcast, we talk about strategies and practical steps to help you grow your business.

But make no mistake about it.

We have our share of fun here too, mixed in with those aha moments that I love so much.

This isn't fluff, nobody has time for that.

Whether you are a new interior designer or a seasoned designer, I am here to help you

create and to manage the kind of interior design firm that you dream of.

It's straight talk and it's action.

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Let's get started.

Hi, welcome to a well-designed business.

Before we get into today's episode, I want to let you know that we're doing something

a little different over the next several months.

We're bringing back the most downloaded, the most talked about episodes from the last

nine years of a well-designed business.

These are the episodes that built businesses that sparked aha moments that turned you into

an action taker.

Now if you're wondering why we're revisiting these episodes and what's changing with

the show overall, well, I walk you through the full vision in our April 25th, 2025 episode

titled The Big Shift, what's changing on a well-designed business and why that episode

is linked for you in the show notes.

Now a quick heads up.

These episodes are airing as they originally did.

That means the music might sound familiar or it might be vintage.

That means the event dates will definitely be out of date that I talk about.

And it also means that any offers that are mentioned may or may not be valid still.

But the insights still golden.

So whether it's your first time hearing this episode or your fifth time hearing it, there's

something in this conversation for you right now in this season of your business.

So here's the show.

I hope you enjoy it.

Hi, welcome to a well-designed business.

Today we are welcoming back Marie Flanagan to the show.

If you follow Marie, listen to her speak, read her articles, or watch her on TV.

You know that Marie captures the idea of a well-designed business to a tee.

It's hard not to be impressed by Marie.

She's the kind of designer who knows what she's worth and she has the chops to back it

up.

Her work all over the country from luxury residences to high-end commercial showrooms has

been featured in architectural digest, L.D.Core, Vogue, House Beautiful, Southern Living,

Domino, traditional home, elegant home, Southern homes and Lux magazine.

But you know, it's not just the long list of accolades that makes Marie stand out.

Marie absolutely decides to be excellent.

She decides it in the projects she takes on, the way she presents herself, the marketing

choices that she makes, and the business that she has built on her talent.

When she was first on the show back in episode 89, she shared with us her marketing strategies,

the intentional steps she took to expand the reach of her business.

Marie decision she made was deliberate and that's still true today.

It's not surprising that she has become a role model to so many designers.

She is someone to look up to, someone to learn from.

And so that's why today, for our show, I had opened it up on Instagram when Marie was

coming on and I asked on Instagram if you could ask Marie Flanagan a question, what would

it be?

And of course we did get some questions and today we're going to answer them.

One of the questions immediately came from Sarah Brennan.

Sarah is a huge fan of Marie's and so during the show today, Marie is going to answer Sarah's

question along with a few others.

Before we get to that, I'd like to take a moment to thank Cravitt.

Cravitt is always finding ways to make shopping easier for you.

That's why they refresh their website to help you experience it even easier and more simply.

With the new redesign, you can quickly access all of your tools like your account settings,

bracelets, current and past orders and more.

You can search more specifically by color with Cravitt's new advanced color search, which

allows you to create the exact custom color you are looking for and get filtered search

results that match your selection best.

I mean, seriously, right?

Visit Cravitt.com and explore everything there for yourself.

All right, let's hear what Marie has to share today with us about the business decisions

and the journey that she's been on.

Hi, Marie.

Thanks so much for joining me again on a well-designed business.

Hi, Louis.

Thanks so much for having me today.

I had to look it up, Marie.

You were here originally episode 89.

You know, like, that feels like a thousand years ago.

Forget the COVID lifetime.

That's like just podcast lifetime.

I can't believe it's been so long, it actually kind of feels like yesterday.

I know.

It's crazy.

Like, I really was like, oh, 200 something, 300 something, but you were probably in that

first seven, eight months of the podcast.

So definitely the first year of the podcast.

So I'm looking forward to this.

I mean, of course, a year ago, we caught up in high point and that was fun to see you and

catch up with you then.

And we had Sarah Brennan with us, so yeah, exactly.

But today, we're going to get back into your marketing genius because that is one of the

things that impressed me from the first time I met you was how intentional you were and

that I, I don't remember.

I didn't listen to the episode in getting ready for this again.

But I remember asking you a question along the lines of, did you do this on purpose or

did this happen by accident and you were like, no, lady, I did this on purpose.

I didn't ask it that way and you didn't answer it that way, but that wasn't just to me.

So today, what we're going to do is we, you know, I've just read it in the introduction,

the question from Sarah Brennan and I thought it was such an excellent question.

Would you talk to Sarah's question a little bit today?

You got it.

Yeah, you know, I really feel like Sarah hit the nail on the head when she was talking

about taking the risk and starting to turn away business because, you know, as an entrepreneur,

that can be one of the scariest things we do.

But, you know, really setting your sights and setting your goals on the client you want

to work for, the projects you want to work for is really important.

And I think being clear and intentional about that is vital to growing your business.

Now, that being said, I feel like I got to work on the projects that I do today because,

you know, I started small, I was one man show and I just took any project I could get

starting off, but I think it's so important to live out just doing the best you can be

the best at whatever you're doing in the moment.

And that's what builds the relationships.

That's what, you know, provides the contacts.

That's what gives you the 10,000 hours to become the expert and really grow into the area

you want to be in.

You know, I always have run a very conservative business as far as, you know, maybe I had

one extra project and, you know, just kind of keeping our schedule relatively busy because,

you know, I knew that this was a business and we needed to actually be making money.

So it's been a very slow process to me, in which at least it feels like it's been slowed

to be able to kind of grow into, into these projects.

And what, how I did it was, you know, I thought I was spending so much time speaking with

potential clients and kind of vetting, well, which projects are going to be right for

me, that I ended up just setting a furniture project minimum and, you know, what started

out at $50,000 quickly grew.

And I don't think it grew necessarily because of that, but for me, it set an expectation

right at the beginning of the conversation, right at the beginning of the relationship

that I wanted to be a big impact on your home.

I didn't just want to come in and provide one light fixture here and a chair there.

And I wanted them to just say no to me.

And that number fluctuated based on how busy we were, what clients were coming in the

door.

And still today provides a great starting point.

Now I do say it to potential clients in an initial interview and kind of touch on it

a little bit without just kind of slapping them in the face with the, you know, airs

are furniture budget because I think another thing to remember is, let's say you're working

with a project budget of the clients saying it's $300,000, well, most of the time, there's

wiggle room one way or another.

They might not actually hit that, but a lot of times they'll go beyond, but nobody really

wants to like lead with the, you know, the final number in mind.

So I think my advice would be, you know, really appreciate the work that you have now.

And do the best job you can because another story, I feel like I can relate to you with

this question is, you know, I was working on a very small job.

And not something that I necessarily was so excited about doing, but, you know, really

wanted to do the best I could at it.

And, you know, provided very detailed cabinet tree drawings and did the whole nine yards.

It was very early in my career.

And the trim carpenter, you know, it just goes to show that you should treat everyone

with love and respect, no matter who you come across, because, you know, I worked with

this, you know, very humble trim carpenter and we were just working on this really small

kitchen.

And years later, he remembered my attention to detail, my drawing set and he got me literally

the richest man in Houston.

So it's just incredible.

The doors that open along the way if you treat people right and you do good work because

then people talk about you, they refer you to their friends, builders want to work with

you.

I mean, I feel like the stereotype is changing, but so many years, you know, a decade

ago, you know, there was always the joke that contractors can't stand designers.

And I feel like that has changed in a way, at least it has for us because we want to

be the resource for the contractor and we want to provide them with the most details

and not just a sketch on an Appkin.

And just building those relationships that look, they're going to want to work with you

and they're going to want to bring you in on the job.

And I feel like between relationships with clients, with vendors and getting out there

through marketing are always that I kind of had slowly groomed the business to what

it is today.

So there's so many little things in there that I want to go back and pull out.

And let's just start at the end.

So talking about how builders, you're finding it's more, you're running into it's more

the other now that builders are appreciating you what a designer can bring to the table.

And of course, we've been, you know, having Brad lev it from AFT construction on the show

several times because, you know, this, it is, it is, it is becoming a thing.

And I guess what I want to ask you about it is, it can become a thing on your level boots

in the ground, you the designer, you the builder that you happen to get introduced to, as long

as you are that valuable partner in the process, right Marie, like that's the proof in the

putting a guy that maybe had or a woman, whoever the contractor has had a reservation.

If you come and you are exactly opposite the stereotype in their mind that they're afraid

of, that helps, that's the, that's the way, right, forget helps, that's the way, would

you say?

Oh, absolutely, absolutely, because if you are providing that you're not only helping

the job run smoother, but you're making them look better, it's running easier, and you

could say the exact same thing about architects, and you get so many people that have your

back that you're getting so many referrals that that's when you get to turn away is what

business as you want.

And I think another key point about that is you do want to turn away the business that

sucks the energy out of you or that takes too much of your time away because when the

right projects come along, you need to be open for that and you need to, you know, have

the energy to give them all your attention.

And I think that was sort of that, you know, one of the key parts of Sarah's question,

right, it was like she has, she's listened to as many of her idols like yourself over

the years, whether it be on this podcast or other podcasts or at the, the different markets,

say that line, you've got to turn away the business that sucks the life out of you.

So it's a hard thing to do.

And I think I heard in her question, she's learning to do that, but there's this fear

of making sure that, well, while I'm doing the right thing, the universe tells me and

all the pros tell me, do this, how do I make sure that I keep the pipeline coming with

the other, right?

That's that, that little moment before it becomes, I think that's what she's describing,

right?

It's that little moment before it becomes, I know this is going to happen, right?

That's right.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, and I think that there's balance to that because I do think you need to, you

know, allow your business to attract the clients that you want.

But I also think you have to be realistic about it.

And, you know, don't just clear your schedule, you know, throw a penny in a fountain.

You know, you, I think that I feel like you should be loose, you know, not, don't pack

your schedule with things that suck your energy out.

But plan your pipeline, know what's coming, plan out your calendar, see how long different

projects are going to take you and plan accordingly.

Keep that space open for the right projects.

And I think you know how to gauge that based on how many calls you get a month.

Are they true prospects?

Are they not?

And you should chart that and you should track that.

And that's really, don't just always go on gut instinct.

I mean, gut instinct is very important, but you should also go on data.

I love that.

So can you share with somebody who just thought, well, how do I track that?

What data do I want to collect?

Do you have a, can you give us a little tip?

I know it's probably 16 spreadsheets, but is there something there that we can, no,

no, I think it's very simple.

Okay.

I think that all you have to do is track how many calls you're getting, you know, maybe

somehow rate them according to fit both, you know, personality, fit, budget fit, job fit.

And then you also need to track where they're hearing from you.

Are they finding out about you on Instagram?

Did they talk to a builder?

Did they talk to an architect?

And whatever is working, whatever is giving you those great leads, do more of that.

Right.

Send that architect those cookies and do whatever you need to do to build more relationships

with more architects or whatever, whatever's working for you, do more of that.

And just be smart about it and kind of approach it from a business aspect.

I love that.

That's great advice in there and it's funny because it reminds me we had a mastermind

over the summer with two million plus firms and it was at the beginning of COVID and

we were all desperately afraid that we didn't know what was going to happen.

We didn't know our industry was going to be on the upside of this pandemic, right?

And one of the first, the very first meeting we, the homework was come back to next week telling

us all of the projects that you had to date in 2020 and all of the projects from 2019 list

them all where do they come to and attach the dollar amount to them.

So you might have gotten 20 projects from, I don't know, the PTA.

But if together they, they, they created $100,000 and you got three projects from one architect

and all three projects were $100,000 to your point.

It was like, this is where we're going to spend our time, right?

That's right.

That's right.

Exactly.

And to this day, there's still the surprises, right?

This week I happened to be installing a house that when we first saw the house and did

the walk, we were like, are we sure we want this?

I don't know.

It's kind of off the beaten path and it's not exactly everything we want as far as the

architecture goes.

It turned out to be one of our biggest projects to date and everybody is in love with how

it turned out.

And so I think there's a little bit of, you know, discovery still, at least in my business,

because, you know, we have relationships with these clients two plus years sometimes.

And so it's really about being a good partner, guiding them through, finding out their priorities

and really discovering what's important to them.

And, you know, I think because we are in the home industry, there's so much emotional

attachment to that and people want a beautiful home and, you know, it's also a big responsibility

for us because we are basically spending people's life fortunes, right?

And to take that seriously and with respect and to approach it in a way that is in service

to that client, I think is very key.

And part of the reason why we have found success, because that is the way we approach it.

And we don't come in necessarily with, hey, this is, I'm a reflanning in, I'm going

to put the reflanning in staff on your home whether you like it or not.

Because I think today's buyer is also way more informed, right?

They're not just saying, okay, just do your thing all the time.

You know, they have taste preferences.

They understand design because of, you know, one app or some TV show and they understand

at least a little bit about their preferences.

So they're coming with a lot more information today.

And so, you know, the first part of my job is always listening and absorbing and truly

hearing what they're saying as far as these are my priorities.

And if you give them that in a beautiful way, in a way that, you know, expresses what

your firm does, then, you know, synergy happens.

Hmm.

Awesome.

So, if I go back into Sarah's question a little bit more, first of all, in your answer,

I'm hearing that A, to track your own data.

And I know for a fact that Sarah is doing that.

I know it personally, but to track your own data, where do your projects come from, which

are your high value projects, who are the resources and the referrals and the places that

they come from?

Right?

I get a number one.

I heard that.

That's awesome.

Number two, I heard, you know, do your 10,000 hours, right?

Be the expert in what you're doing and take, do your best every time you show up because

you don't know when that little trim carpenter is going to refer you to the richest man

and used it, right?

You know, and that is so true, right?

So, so that is to me, that is number one, my whole decide to be excellent.

Wake up every day, bring your 110%, and then the second part of that is to lean into and

create those relationships is what you're saying because you don't know when and where

they come back.

And so, when she's saying, how do I strategically market to these people, there, it isn't just

about like to use an old phrase, putting an ad in a newspaper.

It's all the little things that you do across your business is what I'm hearing you say.

Am I, am I reading it right, Marie?

That's exactly how I see it and what I believe because it's like, you know, the analogy

of the cog wheel, it's every little push to the wheel.

I get to spinning, but once you have it spinning, it's hard to stop.

And it's all the little things that you do, both obvious marketing things, becoming the

expert, doing the podcast, doing the panel, you know, having the newsletter, all those

things.

But also, you know, the relationships spans not just you and the people you work for and

with, but also your own team and how they go out into the industry and represent you and

work with the different people that are associated with your projects are also extremely important.

But yes, it's every, it's every step of the way that I think is what gets that cog wheel

turning in a way that you want to and being intentional and making decisions, you know, I once

heard somebody describe it as you need to have a clear vision of where you want to be.

And where, what that goal is, like the, what are they called?

The big Harry Audacious goal, I want, I want to work on jobs, you know, $600,000, let's

just say that's it.

And you know, every decision along the way, it's like a compass on a ship, every decision

along the way is getting you to that point and you're clear about that where if you just

say, I want to be a big designer one day, you don't actually have a vision for what that

looks like or means, then you don't know, there's oftentimes you've got five great decisions

to make.

Oh, should I do this product?

This looks like a great project, should I do, you know, this editorial, whatever it is,

everything you do needs to take you on that path.

And a lot of times for us, those, those questions are in partnerships, you know, partnerships

are a huge thing for us as far as leveraging our brand, growing our brand, growing our

audience, getting out there to more potential clients.

But you have to ask yourself, is this the right partnership for you?

Is this taking you to where you want to go?

Or is it just great for the moment and isn't really doing much for the overall goal?

Because in the end, it's about how we spend our time.

So when you talk about that, when if I were to break it down to like a finite example,

say that, say that's a goal.

One designer has a goal to be somebody that their wheelhouse is $600,000 plus projects.

And another designer's goal is say, let's say slightly more vague, I want to be a well-known

designer.

I want to whatever adjective you want to, I want to have a TV show.

Well, it's funny because that was the example I was going to use.

If I say I want to have $600,000 projects and that's my wheelhouse and the other is I want

to be a well-known designer, if you're both designers are offered a TV show, the one that

wants $600,000 projects might have to take a pause at the TV show offer, right?

Because that may or may not result in those clients.

It might result in a lot of other things.

It might result in licensing and might result in being able to sell online services to

the consumer, but it might not attract that upper level client.

It might, depending on the show.

But I think your point is, is that like you just said, five great opportunities are looking

at you, but which one is more likely to deliver to you your original, what we say and what

I said in the first chapter of my first book is what is your mission, what is your vision

for who you want to be because to your exact point, we have to measure all the questions

against that, right?

That's right.

That's right.

And, you know, it's not, it's okay to change along the way, but as long as you're going

in the direction of your dreams, you know, that is what's going to give you the clarity.

And it's not, it's not always easy, you know, it's not always black and white.

Sometimes you make mistakes and that's okay too.

Sometimes mistakes are greatest learning lessons.

Well, and it's so true because we do often change our vision along the way.

And this is why we have to sit with ourselves and revisit it every, you know, whether it's

six months or one year or whatever, because sometimes you just set out doing something

and then all of a sudden you say, this isn't making me happy.

I mean, I'm not enjoying this, you know, like, right?

Right.

Right.

Go ahead, go ahead.

Be careful what you wish for sometimes when people get to that point, they're like,

what?

Well, what what's next?

I mean, I thought this was going to make me happy, but, you know, I think that there's

so much to that.

And, you know, even myself, I've kind of hit the point of my career where I have accomplished

a lot of goals that I set out to accomplish.

And I'm very proud of that.

But I think you start asking yourself different questions of, you know, how can I leave a legacy?

How can I give back?

How can I impact people around me beyond just creating beautiful spaces?

But, you know, how can I help my team's career develops?

How can I mentor the younger generation?

So I think you do change as you grow.

And those goals look very different along the way.

That's true.

I interviewed Kerry Kelly recently for a Zoom back in, I guess, September, October for

I was October for high point, virtual high point this year for, no, for ASID National

it was.

And she described how her journey, it was first I really wanted this and then I really

wanted a studio and then I really wanted a team and then I la la la la.

And she achieved each of the things and then she said like a year ago, I decided, I really

wanted was to go back and be small again and to get back in touch with the designing and

not being the business manager of a bigger company.

And so to your point, it's, it can change.

It's, you don't have to set it up now.

And you know, that's it.

I wrote and I put my, but my boots and cement, right, is like it can be flexible.

Yeah.

And it takes that evaluation along the way.

Okay.

So now to, to again, go back to Sarah's question.

So I hear you, we're going to build our relationships.

We're going to take great care to get our 10,000 hours so that we really show up fully as

the expert that we need to be to, to attract that higher level project that you enjoy and

that she's aspiring to.

What about what, let's say we do all that, let's say that that's all locked down by a designer.

Are there next level steps do you think, well, there comes a point when you should

consider a PR agent or you could, you should consider, you know, pitching and probably

doing licensing like, what's that next, like, because you're, I know you're a marketing

genius.

That's your, your thing and that's your superpower in addition to creating beautiful

spaces.

So beyond the relationship level, and I'm not negating it.

I'm, you know, I understand what I'm saying, but there does come a point, right?

Like, are we investing money?

She's making decisions this year.

What does that look like?

Absolutely.

And I think you need to be investing money back into your business all along the way.

And that can look very different to different people.

I have always believed in doing a lot in house because I love marketing so much.

So I have always, or at least from very early on, either done my own marketing or have

a marketing team.

But that being said, once I was coming out with licensing opportunities and had a book

coming out, I decided, look, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was

time to get muscle beyond our own.

And so I brought in a wonderful PR agent from New York who did incredible things and really

helped just leverage everything that we were doing on a bigger scale.

And you know, I feel like you can start and pause those types of things when it's right

for your business.

Let's say you've been working so hard on this gorgeous home that you're so proud of and

you really want the world to see it.

You don't know who to contact and you don't know how to get it into any kind of editorial

publication.

That would definitely be a time to hire somebody to help you do that.

And there's tons of people out there in the industry today because the magazine industry

is rapidly changing.

There's just so much talent out there to help style, to help pitch, to help photograph

and be there as a resource to designers.

Hmm.

Great.

It's nice when we hear that from somebody like yourself, I'm not only because of the

level of success that you've achieved Marie and we can all imagine that we think we know

how you did it, but even for me knowing that you have a strong marketing background to

know that you at some point are saying and looking saying, my marketing team in house is amazing.

But when we want to go from this point to this point, we're going to hire out, right?

That's like a valid thing to understand about your business model.

Oh, absolutely.

And it's about vetting the right partners along the way that really understand your brand,

your vision.

And I think it's important to note to define your brand and your vision as different than

everyone or than most people's like differentiated in some way.

Have a clear vision of that, write it down, define it.

And then you'll know who the right is, it's the same thing about knowing your vision

in order to make decisions, you'll know who the right partners are to help you get to

the next level.

Is it the right photographer?

Are they photographing rooms in the style that you want to be represented?

Do they have relationships?

What magazines does the PR person work with?

There's just so many decisions along the way that can get you to the next level.

And that's an interesting little thing that you said there, right?

So when you're in a position to interview multiple PR agencies to help you get your brand

and firm out there to the next level, it's what are the relationships that they have?

Like get proof of that, right?

Understand who, because PR reps do have built in relationships that are easier for them

to access.

It's not that any PR rep couldn't pitch any magazine, but there are relationships in

that industry as well as the point, right?

Absolutely.

And when you're with the larger or the more well-known PR firms, the magazines go to them

and say, I'm writing this article.

Do you have any designers that would be good for this question or have a project like this?

So that's really the true value is that they're being approached versus us pitching.

If you work with somebody who's trusted in the industry, they trust them enough to know

that even if I haven't heard this designer, it's going to be great.

And so what, you know, it's interesting because taking it all the way back down to a very

entry level conversation with a new business owner, it's funny because often when I'm

working with one-on-one with designers, they're really brand new sometimes.

I mean, you know, they're all across the gamut, but when I'm thinking about the brand

new designers, sometimes they want to start the conversation about, I have X amount

of dollars that I'm willing to invest in marketing.

Where should I put it?

And then again, at this very micro level, I'm looking at their website and I'm saying,

does this website represent exactly who you are?

Oh, no, see, I made that website myself a couple of years ago.

I don't like the colors or I don't like the fonts or I don't have my new projects on

there.

I'm saying, well, we're not going to spend $1, let alone $10,000 in marketing to bring

people to a website that doesn't represent who you are.

And so it sounds like you're saying the same thing.

It's build your expertise, build your relationships, build your go-to so that when you get to this

level that you might invest in PR, it's when that high level luxury client finds you because

of that elevated PR, you have to have your systems and your process down so you can deliver

it, right?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And there's so much I could touch on with that because it's so true.

The website, it does not have to be complicated.

Just to me, the first thing anyone should spend a dollar on is good photography because

you can, with a good photographer, you can make a tiny little bungalow that you worked

on with at your own home or a little bathroom.

You can make it look like it can be a million dollar mansion because it's all about the

light.

It's about the right styling.

It's about making those materials look the best they can, learn what a good picture

looks like.

Then get those good pictures on your website.

Just like you said, it does not need to be a complex website.

It just needs to be beautiful and engaging for the people visiting.

And then where I've changed my opinion about social media where before I believed, if you're

not engaging, it's not worth doing, in today's world, oftentimes people look you up on

Instagram before they ever go to your website.

So in my opinion, even if you don't want to do the social media thing, which several

people don't, just have your nine best pictures on your profile.

It's a full page.

It gives people a taste of your taste preferences and your work and have your website waiting

there.

Mm hmm.

Right.

Right.

I love it.

Like I said, for an entry level rising designer, the analogy is don't spend marketing

money until what you attract them to you looks like you.

And for you at the higher level, don't spend PR money to attract that luxury, you know,

$600, $1 million dollar client.

If your firm can't execute that flawlessly, right?

Oh, absolutely.

Yes.

That's right.

It's like you want the next project and you want the higher.

You don't want just one, right?

You don't want just one referral and it stops and it tracks because the builder, you

didn't enjoy your process, the architect didn't enjoy your process, the client didn't

enjoy your process.

So it's an end to my, the reason I made such a big deal out of that is because it goes

back to your first answer, which is do the 10,000 hours get your relationship solid and

blah, blah, blah.

So I love it.

Very, very good.

Um, and a part of those 10,000 hours, which you touched on, is getting your business

processes in shape.

And, you know, to this day, we are constantly talking about processes, how we can make

them better.

And oh, I'm seeing a, you know, a flaw here and a flaw there.

But for example, we're doing this large installation this week.

Well, we've gotten it down to a well oiled machine of what it install looks like and

how we are creating value for the client in so many different touch points.

And those are the things that create lasting impact that continually get us referred time

time again, is every touch point along the way you exceed expectations?

Are there, is that something that you would be okay to share some of those touch points

that you do that elevate that client experience for your particular clients that make you

memorable?

Or is that too proprietary?

Like, I'm not telling my secrets.

I don't know.

I'm happy to share.

Okay.

You can share anything.

Um, well, for example, um, one of the things we do is we make the clients leave the house

whenever we do an install, it usually takes us about a week's time.

And we have it scheduled down to the minute as who's coming when how things are going to

be installed.

We take a very thoughtful process on the order or the correct order of an installation.

We do not, I do not personally believe in, okay, I'm going to install your couch today.

And then a month later, I'm going to install your chair, first of all, the clients can't

handle it.

Most of the time, like, are you sure it's going to look okay?

Yes.

Right.

It does.

And it really takes the wow experience, so way down.

So then, so we, we do the installation, you know, oftentimes we'll bring an organization

team in to organize their own personal items.

We are installing drapery wallpaper, light fixtures, um, all the furniture, all the artwork,

you know, oftentimes we'll try to include as many personal touches as we can, pictures

of the family, you know, an anniversary gift.

We try and find out what are your special items and then put them in areas of, um, honor

and respect and, um, yeah, and just really kind of do a grand reveal.

And we ask the client, you know, because some people are a lot more private than others.

Like, what kind of reveal are you open to?

Would you like to experience it by yourself?

Do you want us there?

Do you want the whole team there?

Everyone who worked on it?

Yeah.

Um, and you can kind of gauge that, but, uh, you know, everybody's different.

And, uh, but just the experience of coming in and your entire home is done is, you know,

no matter how painful the construction process was, um, you know, it's kind of like birthing

a child, you know, you never, you never remember the pain.

You only have the beautiful baby at the end.

All right.

Not that last month where I couldn't stand up straight or walk or sleep or any of the

things.

Right?

It's just all amazing and there it is in a moment.

I love it.

That's great.

And, and so to that point, then, is, was there that also push moment, Marie, when was

it that you always said you're getting out of the house for a week or was there a moment

when you had earned enough of a, your own business confidence and business reputation to

say to a client, this is how I work.

So leave for a week.

And if that's not great for you, I get it, but I'm not your girl.

So do you remember that climb and that push to that because I have to believe in the

beginning before you really own it, there are people go, I don't need to leave for a

week.

I'll go, I'll go to work all day, just show up and I'll, you know what I'm saying?

Right.

Yes.

Great point.

And absolutely.

And to this day, we get fish back.

I think we're lucky in that most of our projects are new construction.

So most of the time, I would say 98% of the time, the clients do not live there currently

and we are moving them in.

So it's a little bit easier because of that, because of the size of projects we're working

on, we're typically not doing construction work while they're living there.

But often, I cannot say to this day that always is the case, you know, again, it goes

back to, you know, being the servant to the people you're working for.

And I say that in like, like in an honoring way versus a negative way, it's about what

works for them.

And if they're just totally uncomfortable with that, sure, you know, it actually happened

to us a couple of weeks ago, the client just wanted control and they did not want to let

us do it ourselves.

They wanted to be a part of it because it's fun for them sometimes, you know, and that's

okay.

They get to be part of our team and that is part of their experience that will tailor

that install.

No, it's not the way I would have chosen it, right, because we have to make game time decisions

that we don't always necessarily want the client to see every, you know, a glue box that

we made up.

The double face tape on the drapery ham, you don't want them to see that.

Okay.

We want to fix those problems before the reveal, like, oh, no, there's a gash in this table.

Okay.

Send it back.

Go get a new one real quick.

And the client never has to know.

Right.

Those kinds of things.

But, you know, we are still flexible to this day and, you know, in the end, it's their house

and their dreams.

So we're here to bring it to reality and whatever way, but yes, I definitely stress that that

is the best way to do it.

Another thing that I do today is I do the photo shoot before the client sees it because

I have, I ran into issues along the way where we would do the reveal and then come back

for the photo shoot.

And I was just so under their feet and they're trying to enjoy this beautiful new home.

And we've taken it over again for two whole days or however long.

And so I like to do it before they, before they see it in that way.

We leave them the keys to their home and never bother them, at least for a while.

Yes.

Right.

That's exciting.

I'm trying to know though that I guess if I hadn't asked the follow up question, I would

have left the interview thinking, I'm sorry, you work with Mary Flannigan, you're moving

out.

But you know, there is a reality of flexibility.

And I would say that you probably would add to it for the right client, right?

So you're not finding that out 18 months after that they won't you're making that agreement

ahead of time and you're having discourse ahead of time.

And then you as the principal can decide, I will make this accommodation for this client

or you know, I already had four red flags and this is the final we're out.

Am I, am I on mark there?

Sure.

Yes, definitely.

Yeah.

Interesting.

Okay.

So I know I'm going to get tons of pushback.

If I don't go back to one of the things that you said in the very beginning of the conversation,

which is establishing minimum, minimum furniture budgets.

And you mentioned how it grows, right?

So probably in the beginning when you were a one man show, as you described it, maybe

it was 5,000, maybe it was 20,000, I don't know what it was, but you did say that it grows.

And so can you give us a little bit about that trajectory of growth from the perspective

of really remembering before you could say, this is how it is.

And now, you know, like somebody coming to you and you're establishing that in your firm,

had to talk us through that process and that growth that you went under for yourself

as a business owner, just saying, okay, I got to just stick to this, otherwise it's not

profitable.

Yeah, you know, I think it was about learning through experience, okay, well, what does

it take usually, what kind of budget does it take usually for me to make a big impact

on the home because, you know, the small jobs and the big jobs pretty much require the

same energy, the same devotion to the client, the same time.

So how can I do less jobs, but do bigger jobs, just like Sarah commented, it's exactly,

you know, what I said along the way.

And I really just kind of studied, well, you know, based on what's knocking on my door,

what numbers do I need in order to make a huge impact on the project and accomplish the

work I want to do?

That doesn't mean I have to have, you know, Chanel soap is everywhere, but just to be

able to really give them what they're really looking for in that, I feel satisfied as a

designer and the client feels happy that their goals were met too.

And totally, it started out at $20,000, you know, and it grew from there because my vision

grew of what I wanted for a project and my clients grew as far as who was coming to

me, asking me to work for them.

And that was, you know, it's not overnight and I love, you know, Jocco Wildnick, he is

like, you got to do the work in order for it to happen.

You can't just like attract it into your life because you took a couple of pretty pictures.

You really have to find excellence in your career, study, always be, always be learning.

And always be curious and learn from the people that you work with, the people that you

hire, and, you know, really find that excellence in whatever makes sense for you.

So that way, you know, you grow because you have improved also.

Hmm.

So good, such great advice to just always be learning, always be curious and to always

just look to try and make yourself be the best you can be in it, right?

Absolutely.

And the thing is, I guess when we think about the beginning, maybe the minimum was 20 and

now the minimum might be 600 or whatever the number is, the point is the more, I guess

it's one of those things where the more you honor what it is, you know, you need to do

in order to be profitable and the more people that say yes and the more the result is the

good result.

Like you said, this is, I know that we have to spend this much for you to be in

love with your space.

That's what I know.

I'm an expert, right?

So you can tell me that you have 10,000, but you wanted to look like this and it's going

to require 20.

And I guess it's just that learning curve of saying yes to all the 10,000s and having

the client unhappy at the end because it doesn't look like the 20, you're unhappy because

you knew it wasn't going to look like the 20.

And it just times the numbers out by 10 times and it's the same process, right?

Right.

Absolutely.

And I think another point in that that I see all the time is that you, if you, if you

want to run a business, you need to set up parameters that you are making a profit.

I see time and time again, people just being like, well, I just want to make money on

this one.

I'll just spend it all and, you know, the business won't make money.

Well, that is just like a never ending, you know, issue that you're going to run into

and you're going to burn yourself out, you know, working for all these people without

being able to invest back into your business.

And, you know, I think it's important to find that balance of the jobs that are going

to create the environments that both you and the client want, but that also are going

to be good for your business, right?

And it's funny.

I've had conversations, Marie, private conversations with designers that are working 50, 60 hours

a week and not paying attention to the finances and executing and doing all the things.

And like you said, not tracking the data and running businesses that are grossing five,

six, 800 million dollars a year and pulling in 35 and 40,000 for themselves.

And I, I say to them, okay, so you have a body of work that you're proud of and that's

awesome.

But do you understand that if you were to reach out any to any colleague that is looking

for a senior designer, you're probably going to start out at 60, let alone 85,000 a year

depending on the market to work for somebody else.

So why are you working for yourself and not paying attention to what you're earning, right?

Like you have to, to your point, you have to keep understanding that the foundation is

the business first.

And when you have that, does it, it gives you a little bit more gas to say yes and no,

right?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, when you think about that, think about that that you've got, you know, five, six,

700,000 a million dollars worth of, would all of that goes with that gross revenue, all

of the operating expenses, all of the responsibility of the furniture ordering, all of the hours put

in and you're, you're not even making what you would make if you work for another designer.

That's not a good model.

No, no, it's not sustainable.

Right.

You know, it's okay to take a job for less of a margin because you do want the portfolio

job, but let it end there.

And so that's a good point.

So there are moments where you'll take maybe probably at this point, you're not necessarily

taking an entire project for a portfolio job, but maybe do you have certain rooms within

a house where you might say, all right, the gross profit on this isn't is what it used

to be, but this is a showstopper and this will get a 16 more clients through Instagram.

Yeah.

I think there are moments where it's, instead of the room, it's more like the piece.

Like if we're buying a Steinway for somebody, I'm not going to put my full mark up on it

because, you know, it costs $150,000.

So I had no idea that's what a Steinway cost.

And obviously, you know, it's within reason.

And I think today it's more, you know, we will partner with a celebrity here there, you

know, and help them with their project because it's more of a marketing relationship versus

kind of taking on jobs anymore that we might not get paid for.

And that's it.

Of course, there's always the charity work that we do around the community.

But even that, when you were, if you are to describe a project that you do that has celebrity

status that's going to get a lot of eyeballs on you, you're not evaluating that for its

net profit.

You're literally almost putting that in the marketing budget, right?

It's like doing a showhouse, right?

That's absolutely.

It has that same function to it.

I love it.

And this brings me to a second question that a listener had on Instagram for you, Marie,

this listener wanted to know, how do you decide within a design project where to invest

a client's money and where to be more, I guess, careful with the client's money or to pull

back?

Do you have any thoughts on that?

I think it just goes back to finding out their priorities, listening to the client, hearing

what is important to them for the job.

You know, we're typically working with clients, starting at just looking at floor plans that

we haven't even broken ground yet for.

So there's a lot of time for discovery and just kind of hearing different things throughout

the process of, you know, my grandkids come over, it's really important to me to have

a place to store their toys and still have the kitchen and living room beautiful, whatever

it is.

Finding out what is important to them and knowing where to spend the money.

I mean, obviously, the obvious places that budget tends to be spent is, you know, the

entertaining areas, the primary bedrooms, the outdoor living.

But one way I make sure it's prioritized correctly is that I develop spreadsheets of everything

that we plan to install for the job before $1 spent.

So they see exactly how the budget is going to be allocated and there's a process of

back and forth with them to make sure it's attuned in the right way.

I think a lot of designers make the mistake of, okay, let's buy this now, let's buy this

and, you know, all of a sudden you're at a budget that the clients never wanted to pay

and the jobs nowhere they're being done.

I feel like you have to start with the end in mind and make sure that you're very clear

on the money part.

And that makes me recall one of the other points that I wanted to bring up when you said

in the beginning, a client and yourself may have a frank conversation about budget.

But it isn't always the final budget, right?

Like, who wants to come to the car dealership and say, I want to spend 45 grand.

It's like, you'll say, I'd like to spend 35 and then, you know what?

You end up buying the 45 because it's all the things you want.

And so is that part of what your process is, Marie?

So you decide everything.

Is it only the major things or everything?

I guess probably everything and then maybe a budget for accessories, right?

At that beginning, right?

Is that make more sense, right?

Yes, and we're developing that spreadsheet months into the relationship.

That's not up front.

Right.

But absolutely that, you know, the $300,000 client is easily the $450,000 client.

And honestly, we've turned away a lot of clients that probably we shouldn't have just because

I didn't have the time or the manpower to take them on.

I mean, we should have in that moment.

But a lot of times, there are great clients that, you know, might not sound good up front

necessarily, but that really would have been good clients, which is, it's hard to do

as an entrepreneur, but you have to make decisions what's best for your company at that moment.

So when somebody comes to you in those initial conversations and the budget is thrown out

at $300,000 and it turns into $450,000, you're describing that they're not finding that

out at the beginning that what they, that's a different story, right?

We have one conversation with a client says, I wanted to look like that this, this room

on your portfolio and I have $50,000 and you're like, I'm sorry, sweetie, that's a $250,000

room.

That's a different story.

They're nowhere near.

They don't look at you and say, okay, so $250 is good.

They just go, oh, so that's a different story.

Those people are out of the lane.

They, they get referred to another designer, right?

That's right.

Okay.

So, but now you get somebody that says, I wanted to look like this room or however the conversation

everybody comes to their process differently, but you ultimately decide that this budget,

their budget of $300 in your mind is reasonable enough to take the project, okay?

Let's just say that in your mind, it's reasonable enough.

But as the weeks and months go by and you develop this spreadsheet and the things are added

on and it ends up being $450,000 is the secret sauce in their Marie that it's just so much

communication that it never feels like a surprise.

It's always an alternate that we can stay at this level or we can do this like, how does

that happen?

Yes.

I mean, exactly how you described it that, you know, okay, now that we've designed all

the rooms, here's where we're at, you said you wanted to be here.

How does this feel to you?

Okay.

Too much.

Then let's come up with very easy and usually I know exactly where to go to to cut, you

know, there's always some obvious things.

And it's, you know, it's a back and forth and it's, you know, a trust relationship.

You obviously, you don't want it to take advantage of somebody.

You know, you want them to, you know, and we're a part of the construction process too.

So there's that, there's that budget along the way.

And you don't want to blow that out so that you don't have any money for furniture at

the end.

So it's kind of a fine balance of, you know, going back and forth.

But you know, one way that I take the guard down really quickly up front is, you know,

sometimes that number can feel shocking like, oh, I would never spend $200,000 on furniture.

Okay.

Well, here's an example of a past project.

So you see, again, it's not the Chanel sofa, every line, like it's very reasonable.

It's just, you know, I happen to personally live in Houston where houses are huge and that

can take money to fill 12 rooms.

So, you know, it's really just about, for me, it's about openness, you know, you open

book accounting, it's about honesty and I, I don't believe in trying to hide costs from

clients.

I mean, I know a lot of people that works for a lot of people, but I just don't even want

to do that.

And I want to just kind of be upfront about the costs, get a realistic expectation from

the get go.

And it's been working, it works great.

And when you describe that, that you have this open book accounting policy, does that

mean that your firms business model is that you share with clients your net net and then

you charge for hourly or profits on top of that a percentage or when you say open book

accounting, I've made an agreement with them that they're going to spend 40% above net

net on everything.

And that's what I'm sharing with them, the final number that includes my percentage.

How do you do that?

We share with them the final number, but there's an obvious, or there's an, it's spelled

out in the agreement, our markup on the cost of goods sold plus we have a design fees as

well.

Okay.

So, yeah, so it's, you have a design fee markup on cost of goods sold.

There's probably that construction might be a whole nother separate part of it, right?

That I mean, that's a different skill set that you're bringing to the table managing and

executing the oversight of the construction, right?

Well, we always work with the contractor, but we are, we're managing the design elements

and the finishes that are selected and then helping to manage that on site for the

contractor as far as execution, but we are not the contractor.

No, no, no, no, no, but do you charge your client a separate fee for that on site management

of with the contractor or is that within the design fees and your markup some furniture

and stuff?

It's a lower project management fee.

Yeah.

Okay.

Cool.

Very cool.

And interestingly, what I hear and see a lot, Marie, in the Facebook groups is obviously

a lesser experienced designer.

This is, you know, goes without saying, but we'll get to a point in a project where something

goes sour and then the client is demanding the net, net invoices.

And, you know, I've seen it where designers did not have a solid agreement, but I've also

seen it where designers have said, I have a contract that tells them they are paying

35% above my net or they're paying 40% while all of a sudden.

And I mean, not quite honestly, I've seen posts where they're saying, I produce this

or I'm calling my lawyer.

And I just, my brain fries at the consumer pretty much is who my brain fries at.

That's like me demanding, you know, more ins to tell me, what did this filet banan cost

you before, you know, you cooked it, prepared it, aged it, and all the things, right?

But what do you say when you meet younger designers, Marie, or newer designers that are

saying, how do I just charge my fees and that's it?

And I don't have to open my actual net cost books to them.

Do you remember having to do that and having to come up through that?

Yeah.

Well, I feel like it's a matter of setting expectations on the front end.

It's, I mean, I don't know the situation, but, you know, if somebody's upset, that might

mean that they weren't presented the cost ahead of time, they obviously don't trust

that the designer is marking it up to what was agreed upon.

I would want to know the specifics behind, but I think if you've got a markup, I'm

marking it up 20%.

And that's how I work and explain that to them.

I really think it's about setting expectations with clients and running a good business.

In other words, making sure clients are aware of what they're spending and how much they

have spent.

Because it's one thing to be like, yeah, I like that painting for $10,000, that sounds

great.

Oh, but you never told me I was already at $400,000 of purchases, you know, you have to run

a business.

It's not just the creative side.

You need to keep clients aware of where you are in the project, what the budget is, and

set those expectations from the beginning.

I love that answer because I think you're probably dead on that there's more to a simple

question like that because if somebody gets to the point where they're questioning your

integrity, there are steps that have created that distrust, right?

There's something that's happened there.

And you know, it's a great point and to understand you're saying, it is your responsibility.

You take it.

You're saying to me that you take it as your responsibility that if I send you this

next new invoice for $85,000, I also apprised you that we're $125,000 into your $300,000

budget.

Yeah, it's some point along the way, not every, not every invoice, yeah, right, right,

right.

Yes, you need to keep them updated in some methodical way that makes sense to you in

your business.

But there are people out there who are more difficult than others, and I have totally

had those people too.

And there's just some people who are just untrusting of others, you know, for one reason

or another.

So you have to find a way to get them to trust you.

And if that's showing them a couple of receipts, sure, do it.

No, and you're right because there are just some people that they sign agreements, they

don't really read them and they still just keep, you know, expecting, you know, eggs to

be open when, you know, there's no reason for it.

So, you know, it's good to remind me not to assume that there was a lack of something

that created the mistrust, right?

There's our individuals that are untrusting by nature.

Sure.

Yeah.

Okay, very good.

And then I have one other question for you that I'm going to indulge my listener on

this, Marie, because this is not something I normally care about, think about, or want

to know about.

But I will ask you, I have a listener question that said, how do you feel about frame

molding on textured walls?

I feel like it depends on the architecture.

I think we, I love molding.

I love doing trim drawings, especially if it's a more traditional home or a bungalow.

And I love doing very detailed trim drawings.

I did a scourges home until you ride that had all kinds of ornate trim details done with

very contemporary furniture, so the contrast was, you know, very Parisian.

But at the same time, often, I would say more of my projects right now, I'm doing a

lot of plaster, a lot of what we call curved windows and doors, which means no molding,

doing a project now with Jeffrey Duncan, and he's got this gorgeous, tiny little, almost

like, chair rail detail along the floor.

And that's it besides some paneled walls.

So I really think it depends on the architecture, it depends on what's right for the vision

of the project.

I love it.

I love it.

Very good.

So there I did.

I talked about design instead of just business.

Well, I didn't.

You did, I listened.

So now I, one thing I want to spend just a moment on before you go, because I know so

many of us look up to you in the industry, Marie, for the way you've created your business,

but, but for your design aesthetic as well.

I mean, it's really, really very beautiful.

I remember one of the things I do remember from meeting you the first time is all of

the video that you had on your website, and that was so new then.

That was like, I remember that first year as you and pulp design studio that really had

the video game way ahead of the rest of us.

So there are many things that we look up to you for in the industry.

And one of them is now you have these collections, these licensing projects.

So tell us about, you know, a couple of them, the designers that they love your style,

love your aesthetic, where they can look for and, you know, support the projects that

you've got going on.

Well, you know, my biggest launch recently has been with Visual Comfort and I'm so thrilled

to be partnering with them on a lighting collection.

And it launched, let's see, we did our biggest launch in September.

And so those products are just now rolling out to the market.

And we're about to have a second launch of some other products that I'm so proud of.

The collection is very streamlined, tailored, it's all about organic textures, about imperfect

finishes.

So I'm really excited to be rolling those out.

And I have a collection with Arias Stone Gallery, which is this incredible online resource

for natural stone.

And my director of design actually went to Italy and hand selected the most beautiful

slabs.

And those are available for online purchase and also for viewing in person.

And we've got more collections on the way.

So very excited about what's to come in 2021.

Very, very exciting.

What was that like doing the design for lighting, Marie?

Was it, again, was it, every time I specify lighting, I always just immediately organically

I've always had my own thoughts and wish this was that or wish I could change that.

Or was it an opportunity, a business opportunity and you thought, you know, because I have had

others that have had collections with visual comfort and I don't, I know them to be a good

company.

And I've had, you know, my God, what I know, I know as well.

It's like when I talk about gravity, there's some companies that just are really good people

behind it, right?

So was it like that where you said, hey, this is a great company.

I've never really had this driving desire to design lighting, but like you said in the

beginning, forming your relationships and, and vetting them in your strategic partnerships

and making sure they support your vision.

Or was it, no, no, no, sweetie, I've always dreamt about lighting and I wanted to do this

and I was grateful for the chance to do it with them.

How do we, was that look like?

Oh, definitely.

It was always a dream, and honestly, the dream was to work with them specifically because

my background as an architecture, I lighting is one of my favorite elements to use in design.

And, you know, it's so much a part of the structure and the envelope and detailing that

it was a natural fit and they actually are located in Houston, so it just really worked

out well.

That's awesome.

So exciting.

And I bet you had it on the list somewhere, design a lighting line and do it with visual

comfort.

That's right.

That's awesome.

I love it.

So last question, I would love for you to just give some thought to that rising designer

that is sitting there and having coffee with you, any topic, any lesson, any hindsight

that you would say, take care of this, pay attention to that or look at something this

way.

Anything come to mind, Marie?

I would say, you know, make sure you're taking time to work on the business, not just

in the business because in our line of work, and especially when you're an entrepreneur,

it's, you know, they want you at the meetings.

It's not like we're production company designing a widget that, you know, you can get out of

the details at some point.

You know, if you're really a part of the design, you stay a part, you're staying in the business

a lot.

And so it's really important to take that time, step out of the business and work on the

business.

And what that means is think about the marketing, think about the strategic partnerships,

you know, who's the right photographer for me, how can we get up into editorial and

come up with those visions and those dreams and a plan on how to get there, not just the

dream, but the plan on how to achieve it.

So take that time and it's worth it because it gives you that compass and that guiding

direction on how to accomplish it in the day to day, which is where the magic happens.

Love it, love it, love it, great, great answer.

Okay.

So moving on, I want to ask you one final question that I'm sure is going to be also

helpful for all of us today.

Let me, let me divert a little bit here.

I have publicly made a commitment to making sure that we continue a conversation on our

industry about diversity, about equality, about making sure that we look at ourselves

as white people to how we can improve ourselves and be better friends and allies and colleagues

to our black designer friends, but how we looking at the lessons that we might be learning

for the first time, some of us name myself, some of the lessons our first time.

But the question is, how about for you in this last year of, of everything that's happened,

is there anything that you want to share either as a mother, as a wife, as a business owner,

as a designer, you know, in regard to being white and your experience and looking now around

possibly at things in a different way that you would like to share either with our white

colleagues or our black colleagues or.

Yeah, definitely.

You know, I live in Houston.

I feel I have been, it's been an eye opening in a painful year, 2020 and, you know, I feel

lucky to have grown up in Houston, which is, you know, arguably one of the biggest melting

pots in the country as far as people from all walks of life and backgrounds.

So I think for somebody like me, it opened my eyes to see real issues that are out there

in real pain, especially in the racism conversation and be more sensitive to that because in Houston,

you know, we have so many incredible, talented, you know, black artisans, chefs, you know,

but a lot more ethnicities than just black, you know, Indian, Mexican.

I mean, I'm married to a Mexican man.

So, you know, we are a melting pot and it's, it can be a beautiful thing and I have to

shout out to my incredible friend, incredible designers here in town, Veronica Solomon

and the Airfield Ward just down the way.

They do incredible work.

So I think for me, it was eye opening, the pain that some people feel and the experiences

they have had that are horrendous and horrific, that nobody should be treated like that.

And I think that what I hope people have taken away is that, you know, we should love

honor and respect all humans and especially come to the table, understanding a different

perspective that somebody might be afraid to walk into the design center or they might

not approach you right away and to have that new perspective, to be able to embrace people

from all walks of life, I hope everybody takes away.

But I think one of the major issues that I have seen from that experience in my career

is that the lack of people and of course, specifically speaking about black people, even

coming into the industry in general, because, you know, I have had a wonderful black woman

on my team before, but there really isn't that many that actually apply.

So I feel like one of the best solutions to that issue in our industry is education and

making sure that we are showing not just, you know, certain schools, what this profession

looks like, but reaching out to all different schools and teaching them what the construction

industry has to offer to all walks of life.

But I think that to me is a problem I see in our industry and that we need to embrace

the talent of many different cultures, because that's kind of as a business owner, some

things that I see as an issue and something that I don't always come across every day.

It's, you're right, being there in Houston, you know, I can see being so close to the

border and all of the things.

It's many cultures coming there, but even I think I heard in there that you probably

have had some ah-ha's in the last year of 2020, of hearing the different stories of, you

know, not just our colleagues, but also in the greater country of the, of the what really

is happening as opposed to what I would say that we didn't even pay attention to what

was happening.

I want to say, right?

Oh, absolutely.

And I think it's important to wake people up and to wake people up to change.

And improvement, but also don't let it define someone either.

You know, I think we need to lift up all brothers and sisters and, you know, make the change

and punish those who don't follow the law and follow what's right for humanity.

And we need to, you know, show that you have to live a certain way in order to work in

our society.

But I think also, you know, there's both sides of it to where, you know, you need to make

sure to honor what somebody has accomplished.

And I think that I see the issue of, you know, people being defined by the color of their

skin and defined by that.

And I feel like this has been a wake-up call to celebrate differences and to celebrate

where somebody might be coming from a different perspective and from a lot of pain and to

be aware of that and to change your behaviors in order to honor them and love them, like

a true human being.

Right.

Right.

Absolutely.

Well, I thank you for sharing your observations on that because I do think it is by each of

us being willing to talk about our observations and maybe share our lessons in our haze that

we will make it so that it is top of mind to make sure our friends are at the table and

that everybody is there and they've been invited because of their talent and what they've

accomplished and, but they're not excluded because of their color.

I mean, that's the, that's the crazy thing.

The talent is there.

So it's just making sure there's space at the table for everyone.

Okay.

Absolutely.

Well, thank you.

I appreciate that.

Awesome.

Thank you so much.

We have done so much for our industry and just for your business and it's been really,

it's been really impressive and I just am honored that you would include me.

I think you can see now why I said that Marie decides to be excellent on the regular,

right?

It's pretty obvious, isn't it?

Now, I want to say, some of you have natural talent.

No question.

Some of you went to school to develop it, enhance it.

Some of you do right in and open your own business and build up your skills through experience.

We all know there are many paths to design, but the business side, the ins and the outs

of what it takes to start and build and develop a business.

This doesn't come without work.

It just doesn't happen to you.

It's something that you create deliberately, step by step, decision by decision.

And this is in my observation exactly what Marie has done in her own words.

The advice that she would give to you is this, it's not a dream, it's a plan, right?

It's not a dream, it's a plan.

That's what it takes to have a well-designed business.

And I want to highlight Marie's emphasis on relationship building.

She didn't go from point A as a brand new designer to point B as a thriving designer who gets

to choose now exactly who she works with through any magic, right?

She had to go through the hard knocks, navigate the waters, and create those relationships

as she built her way up.

And along the way, she leaned on those building relationships on showing up as her best self,

no matter how insignificant the project seemed.

The story that Marie told us about the contractor who remembered her work ethic and later introduced

her to the richest man in Houston, captures something very important.

When you are a designer, a business owner, the principal, the face of your firm, you need

to represent yourself in every single job, okay?

You need to show up as your best self, whether that's redoing a guest bathroom or designing

a mansion.

And when you put yourself into your work and you stick to your work ethic and you show

up every day with integrity, people notice this.

It comes back to you through referrals, connections, and jobs, right?

And you never ever know when and how that will happen, but it does because your reputation

is everything you have.

It is literally at the end of the day the only thing that you have, right?

So that's why it's so important to be clear on what your goals are and what your vision

for your business is, all right?

And this is another point that had come up during the conversation, right?

So when you're dealing with tough decisions in your business, potentially turning way clients

in favor of growing towards a client you want, it's those values and mission and vision

that become more important, right?

You have to say true to what you want, who you are, where you want your business to go.

That's how you can make sure that you're consistently feeling good about the decisions that

you're making along the way as you grow your business.

And another point I want to touch on is that list that Marie had of things that she does

to elevate the client experience.

The little touches like the special review, the thought in scheduling, taking pictures

before the reveal so she can leave the client to appreciate the space without being under

foot, okay?

We think about the client experience a lot at WindowWorks as well.

It's not just about completing the project.

It's about cultivating a relationship that we hope will turn into a lifelong loyal client.

And you have to really think about what you do that can make that experience special,

so that you stand out, so that when your clients are talking to their friends and co-worker

and family, that they can't help but recommend you when they think about who they need for

whatever it is that you do, right?

Another thing that Marie is absolutely right about is we're talking about client spending

like a good chunk if not all of their life savings.

That's what she said, right?

This isn't something temporary or small.

You are creating spaces for clients that they will live in and they are often using that

life savings to do it.

So it requires setting expectations, anticipating problems before they help happen and helping

guide the clients around those problems to the end result that you both will love, right?

I love it.

I just really love it.

Marie is so full of wisdom and experience and knowledge.

And I'm really glad that she was able to answer the questions that we had from our listeners

on Instagram and that she came and she shared her insights with us today.

Before we wrap up, I want to thank our show sponsor, Rebel Woods.

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And before one more thing before I go, I want to say and I want to point out that if you

are struggling with some of the decisions and the steps to growth that Marie talked about

here on the podcast today and you're ready for some hands-on help.

Luanne University is up and the spring session is starting next week.

There's still time to let take a look at the class schedule and pick the class that will

help you be a better business person, okay?

From Vita teaching how to scale your window treatment business to your first million dollars

to Nancy Gansakal for teaching you how to connect with your client with emails that

attract and persuade them to want to work with you and everything in between.

So check out the entire schedule at luanneuniversity.com.

The thing is that Marie didn't get where she is today by accident.

She designed it from the project she took on to raising her furniture project minimum strategically

to leveraging data with her gut instincts to thoughtful marketing plans.

She created her business and she grew it every step of the way.

That's what it's all about and I hope you're able to take some of Marie's insights today

and start thinking about what decisions you need to make to plan and create your dream

business.

Thank you so much for joining me today.

I definitely always appreciate and value the time that you spend with me.

Thanks for listening.

Decide to be excellent.

Thank you so much for joining me again today.

This podcast is a production of WindowWorks, your resource for custom window treatments

and awnings.

To learn how we can help you on your next interior design project, go to www.WindowWorks-NJ.com.

And if you're interested in working with me on your business, either through masterminds

or one-on-one coaching, or you want to know how to get my book, the making of a well-designed

business, or you just want to know what's going on in the podcast land and where I'm going

to be.

All of that is found at luanneNigara.com.

Thank you so much, Evan.

Excellent day.