153 Million Driver's Licenses Are for Sale

0:00Motherfucker, you're committing espionage at my fucking home. I had to spend $2,800 for a fucking 60-inch flat screen wall TV that I bought from my family to enjoy, and you're monetizing the data on my network by devices so that you can make extra money. Why not just charge me five grand for the fuck a TV, and we can skip all that nonsense? Hector Montseger was responsible for some of the most notorious hacks ever committed. The honest special agent Chris Tarbel. Hackets and FBI informants dissipated some of the world's most infamous hacks that caused up to $50 million in damages. In life in the shadows, cyber attacks on the rise. Heck, I got a lot of expectations on this one. Really high-barred at Jump Over. I mean, last week's intro killed it, and now I gotta come in back with my bullshit. I mean, that is true, but you know what?

1:02I appreciate it, it's embedded in my brain. Welcome to Hacker in the Fed. Free episode number 148. I'm Chris Tarbel, former FBI special agent working my entire career in cyber-security. Cyber security. Who, twist it already. You are. Tony, high-barred, too much expectations. And as always, my buddy, my podcast co-hosts, friend of the show, co-host, Hector Montseger. Hey buddy. I don't know how I was supposed to go on. Good. He sounds nice now, but he used to be an asshole when he was a former black hacker who once faced 125 years in prison for hacking under the code name Sabu. But then, but then, our story is collided in June 2011 when I arrested Hacker, but then I convinced him to work with me at the FBI. There's now a red teamer, researcher, cyber security expert, and co-founder of Safe Hill. We made it through, heck. Hey, listen, we survived. You know, I'm going with it. I'm cool. How you doing, brother? Everything going all right with you? Yeah, you know, life is good.

2:03Can't complain. Just day to day, ups of things in life. We're recording on a holiday. Happy Labor Day. Yeah, I know. Happy Labor Day. Shout out to all the workers out there. It's just one thing that I'll, that I always appreciate that today is that they celebrate the workers of our nation, here in the United States. And hopefully, it gets better for the workers at some point in time, maybe the next century or so. Oh, I'm sure. Well, hopefully AI doesn't take away. You know, I'm going to make a prediction. So if the trends continue as they go, maybe Labor Day is going to give a place of like AI day. Oh, we're done. That's not special. Oh, that sounds very special. It's not so special. I can already see the the the technical crafts, you know, just looking their lips and just like, you know, like the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, The animal lector. You know what I mean? That, go and that. Yeah. I hope not. I, I like Labor Day better than the AI day, but we'll, we'll take it.

3:05Yeah. Well, Peck, as always, Alonist is up by asked and ready to go and pushing me to say, this episode is brought to you by Safe Hill, which Heck founded and stocked with his crew of Cyberscurity experts. Their platform Secure IQ doesn't hand you a 400 page, maybe report. It maps the attack pass into the air environment and then kicks the doors. It actually opened so that you can see which ones would have put someone at the keyboard. Heck, what are you guys breaking on purpose over at Safe Hill this week? Breaking everything, you know, it's breaking all down and build a backup. Yeah, I know I worked his go with Safe Hill, man. It's, it's a lot of research, a lot of, a lot of kind of like testing and making sure that things work and talking to the customers. My approach always is to, you know, especially since we're small, right? And our customer base is small. You know, what I like to do is just sit down with folks and ask them, what is the actually missing?

4:06That, you know, I could build an ASF, which we have already. I could build the, you know, all these different threat, you know, threat exposure tools and modules and scanners and all that. But is there anything that you're missing? You know what I'm hearing a lot? What's that? That we don't currently have, but you know, I might just wake up when they just build something or do it or do it. So to deal with it. I'm hearing from a lot of organizations, you know, Heck, we have concerns with regards to AI governance. I've actually heard that from many clients. Right. Really? And even leads that have not converted customers yet, right? These people are like, yeah, my AI governance is kicking my ass. And so what does that mean? Let's talk about that, right? So AI governance is, as you can imagine, is governance around AI deployment, AI use, you know, for CSO that look at it from various different ways. From a CSO's perspective, it's, you know, this question is like, so what are my employees using for AI? Are they using our corporate account?

5:07Do we even have a corporate account with OpenAI or Drop-Ak, are they using like local language models deployed on their workstations or at home? And then are they feeding our sense of information to these local deployments? Right? Are they using a shadow AI like these, you know, maybe a Z dot AI or deep seek or something away from, you know, our corporate accounts? And so the problem that they face Chris is not the lack of solutions because some solutions do exist. But those solutions exist, tackle the problem in many different ways. We give you three ways at the doing it, right? What is on the network side? Right? Another is on like the endpoint side, which is like looking at the monitoring traffic to Chrome extensions. All right. And then the other one is, you know, a combination of both with some questionnaires and then

6:08monitoring the API keys, the API usage. And then you try to coordinate all that together and then you try to figure out what's the next thing. So we're researching that I'm obviously looking at that before the rest of you. Listen, where you have an organization, you're the CSO, you're the director, you're the CEO, you're whatever, you're an engineer and you guys are having the same problems. The good news is there are options. The bad news is they're extremely expensive, okay? So you might have to think of other ways to deal with governance, at least in the interim until other solutions come out and they're more accessible or they make sense. But I'll give you some quick hints. If you guys have already invested in NDRs, right? If you have Ford in that, Ford in Gale, Ford in this, Cato that, checkpoint this, right? Check to see if they offer any sort of like web content filtering. Just then that'll allow you to do SSL into exception or TLS into exception. You can monitor traffic, write some scripts, you know, just to get the party started.

7:11But if you have any other questions, hit me up on questions at hackinafender.com. I do have some ideas until I build my own. And that's what we've been told about Chris. If you guys want to learn more about Safe Hills Threat Exposure Management Platform or their penetration testing services, connect with HECK on LinkedIn, visit safehill.com or email them at infoatsafehill.com, guys. Support the show, reach out and support Safe Hill. Right. Get it. So HECK, I had a nice session yesterday of TAN in my balls. Nice. How did I go? It went well and I've brought others now. I have now have a, people joining me to TAN my balls. Nah, nah, nah, hold on a second. Nice. Yes. So you got like a crowd of dudes just hanging out with you naked on your front wall, TAN in the balls. First, it's my backyard. Good. But that doesn't matter. But yes, I do have, I do have a person now that joins me for some ball TAN. No, no, no. Yes, it's true. Yesterday, the old lady joined me for some nude alabia TAN.

8:15Oh, very nice. Very nice. I hope the kids don't listen to this. Oh, listen, this camera's in the house. I'm sure the kids sing something, bro. I feel like we're a couple of nudists now. I mean, you're basically there. You're at the front door. Well, I hope to be at the back door soon. Wow, that's fantastic. Well, listen, I love the fact that she's joining you on this. Yeah, I see. Now, she says it's not her cup of tea. You would rather have at least a pair of bathing suit bottoms on, but say, look, you know, I said, just try it. It's nice. I built a shower outside. So it's nice. You shower off in between. You get a little warm. You want a nice, a little shower out there. Yeah. So it's nice. I got a whole little session out there. And then once I was done with that, I trampolined for a little while. That was nice. When naked. I did put a pair of shorts on for that one. That's what the saying is. Yeah. I have done it nude before. I don't mind. You know what, you know what, you missed a, no, a Mr. floppy once was thrown for the start

9:19going out, you know, they go this guy. I'm 48 years old. What do I care what people say? In fact, we've got an email this last couple of weeks about people being happy that they finally don't think FBI agents are tight asses that they actually go out and do things. He's like, look at this guy. Tannen is balls and doing all this naked, tracturing and all this. So I'm happy to dispel the bad rumors that FBI agents are not the best. They're better bunch of tight asses. Now, there are a bunch of FBI agents that are a bunch of tight asses. Sure. Just like in any fields where there's probably something's not. I doubt if you're like, I don't want to stare at someone, but if you're like a tattoo artist that you probably have it at too tight ass, you think so? Oh, I'm sort of some elitist assholes that, you know, that go out there and ink. You know what I mean? Like, come on. I don't know. I mean, because so my wife, my daughter and both mean girls, they got together and got their belly buttons pierced this week. Whoa. Look at that. I'll tell you that my wife and the mean girls all already had it.

10:21This was like, so they all took them out when they had kids. So this was just a reappearsing. But yes, my daughter, my 18 year old daughter got herself a whore ring. Oh, God. Here we go. Well, you know, listen, she's going to be alright. She's going to be fine. This is the worst thing she does in her life than it's not so bad. She went with her mom. Yeah. How the mean girl is doing? They're good. They're good. So the wife and I worked out with the one that was on last week this morning. So we had a good time. Yeah, she was awesome. Last week, man, that made my day. I had a great. I know we hit the hour mark. I just want to keep going with her. She'll come back on. She'll happily come back on. She enjoyed being on. And I think the other mean girl was a little jealous. I think she might come back on sometime before I think we should have more guests on the Patreon stuff. Facts. I'm with it. And I don't mind people in our lives, you know, you know, build them out as characters

11:22and we talk about them all the time. Why not? Why not have them come on and talk about, you know, you know, they can talk about themselves a little bit. They can talk their experience in cybersecurity. Doesn't all have to be cybersecurity all the time. No, definitely not, man. I mean, look, cyber is without it is. And it's always gloom and doom. Very rarely is there anything interesting that's that's positive. Yeah, I mean, we've had that one. I was in a shit today. I want this to make the positive stuff. I mean, that lasted for like two episodes. You know, what the hell is positive? Hey, my Cisco firewall blocks some incoming traffic. I was looking through the logs here today. And I found I love how you do the white voice. It's really good. You do good. You do good. That's actually my natural white voice. Oh, this is turned on. Yeah. So guys, if you want some first to cover good news, send us screenshots of your firewalls blocking the traffic. I think we can definitely talk about that once in a while.

12:24What do you think about having a long term hacker in the Fed listener come on the Patreon? Totally for it. Yeah. I think that's the most. Those are my emails. If you guys want to come on and be a guest person, if you think you're interesting, now we're going to we're going to cream your ass. If you don't have interesting stories, if you don't have fun, things to say, we are going to chap you a new one. Well, listen, I'm looking forward to it. Anyone is down by old means, bro. It's fun. Yeah, but you got to get a fit our schedule. Yeah, which fucking divas. All right, you ready to get into the show today? Let's get it, bro. The FBI probes service selling 153 million drivers license. So in August 31st, a new exploit forum seller launched Nexus, which is a searchable shop for scanning identity documents. The writer of the article, his own driver's license was actually a free sample on the site. So Nexus is claiming they have over 153 million US and Canadian driver's license and 10 million

13:26other IDs, 3 million travel international IDs. Over 500,000 medical cards. So the operator said the images came from an active reach of quote, a major identity verification company with continuous X will quote over for over a year with drivers license, new drivers license coming in over 400,000 in 24 hours. You surprised by this one? I'm not. No, no, I'm not surprised by it. I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner. It could have happened four years ago. It's a reminder to me, though, it's a slap to the face of every American. Right? Listening. If you're an American, you're listening. Shout out to our listeners abroad. Love you guys. So for the Americans, listen. How many fucking times are you going to allow yourself to get slapped in the face by this, this greed, this corporate greed, greedism, corporatism in our government that allows for

14:27this to have, you know, Chris in Europe, right? They have the GDPR. Sure. It's just so policy. You could follow it if you want. If you don't, you're going to get fines. You may not even be able to do business in Europe, right? The point is, it's consequences. I don't even like the GDPR. Even your appease unlike it, but it would not only maybe not prevent this from happening. It could happen in Europe as well. But somebody somewhere is getting reans. There's a, it's consequences. So it might surprise me. It might surprise me. It's no. Am I going to be holding my breath to see if anything happens as a result? No, not really. What's going to happen? Well, I think the FBI has already taken a whack at it. I think there's some connectivity issues with some of the stuff. The DOD's also investigating it because guess what? Uncle Pete's driver's license was in there. Of course. Well, I'll give you guys a fun one. My driver's license looks fucking ridiculous. Have you seen my license?

15:29I have one of your licenses for the one I arrested you. Oh, for real? I still have it. Yeah. That's awesome. Well, my current state license picture looks ridiculous. I look like a complete dork. I look like a creep actually. Because the guy told me to smile and I smiled at the wrong time. I'm like this. Right? You look terrible. What do you mean you look like a creep? You always look like a creep. Come on. Come on. Come on. Before we start recording it, now I'm fucking going. What? You told me you had sex with a man the other day, right? Before we start recording. Listen, first of all, no. But if I did, it doesn't matter, right? I still love you. Thank you. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. But yeah, I've been looking and following this story, right? And so now what you have is shiny hunters, which are Russia Alliance, which is a Russian like group, they're trying to buy the data set from this actor outright. Oh, that'd be nice. Yeah, you know, kind of like the Costco of ID selling. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

16:29Book sales. Yeah, exactly right. You know, that's nice. Why wouldn't they just break in and take the whole thing? They could. That's the funny part. Why the fuck are you trying to buy the data set up of this dork? You're just getting yourself. Now you know what the source is. It's idscandartnetaparimic. You know, well, we'll see, we'll keep track of it and see what's going on. But I'm sure with 150 million, I bet you there's a one or two hacker and the Fed listeners in the whole thing. Of course. Did you look to see if yours was there? No, I have it, but I'm going to guess yet because you and I travel a lot. And so what happens is when you and I travel, you know when those those fucking, the hotel receptionist like, oh my God, it's happy to see you, Mr. Torbal. Can I get your ID? Guess what? That IDscandartnet. This shit. That's what this is. So you're in it for sure. I'm in it as well. Yeah. Apparently FBI assistant directors, D.O.'s in it and the in the Pete was in it. So those are the big ones. Well, and you know, the the confirmation came from bunch of Defcon people.

17:31Why? Because Defcon was recent, right? When when those Defcon participants looked at them, their licenses up in that database, they all showed up. All of them. Why? Because they just recently went to Defcon, they all went to the hotels and every fucking hotel scanned your ID. It went to the same database and the same data set. Meanwhile, this threat actor is just sitting there collecting with that shit. You know, it's insanity. It's absolutely insanity. Why does IDscandartnet do it? Do you have any idea? Like what's the collection for? Well, I'm going to assume this. I'm going to assume that there's some biometric stuff. I think they're also looking at like the ID numbers. The ID numbers has like a document number and there's a bar code in the back of your state IDs, your licenses. And so it all correlates. It all conflates to something and then based off of that information and maybe they have access to like a national license database or something. They can confirm very identity. Just more flocks. Oh, flocks.

18:31That's all it is. It's all flocks. And by the way, have you been watching this? Oh, gazing. Have you been watching these blade runners? They already started cutting down flocks. Over to country, bro. I saw it. I think we have a we have a story about today. So we'll see. We'll see how it goes. So terrible, terrible news, terrible story. Yeah, but I mean, not shocking, but yeah, horrible news. So anthropic warns info stealer malware is hijacking cloud sessions to drain usage. So anthropic is emailing some cloud users that commodity infancyllars have stalled already authenticated cloud browser sessions from infected PCs. And then relay those sessions to burn through included usage and in some cases build credit. No password or two FAP prompt is required on the relay. The cookie is the login. And anthropic says that the malware is not installed by cloud, not a cloud side breach and something and not something that a user quote unquote did in cloud.

19:32Cloud was just one loot item among the cookies password and other apps. So we're now we're banging out tokens cookie sales. Yeah, remember when you and I discussed, what was it when mythos became a thing? Everybody said, oh, mythos this myth was that. And then we talked about we had a whole like philosophical, a bit of a discourse on open models, right? We talked about open models a little bit and might take away or might might might take was. Well, Chris, if you're going to have a topic, open AI or these frontier companies start to limit who gets access to these models, then I'm totally for open model ecosystem, right? Because what happens is the bad guys hints what we're talking about right now. The bad guys are still going to get access to it, right? You're just limiting Chris Tarbo and Hector Monster and all the listeners of hacker

20:34and defend from getting access to something that the bad guys are already getting access to and how are they getting access to it? Insiders, info stealers, the authenticated cookies are stolen, sessions are stolen. That's exactly what's going on here. You know, and by the time you realize that you've been got Chris, my beautiful, my handsome Chris, I like that ship, by the way. Thank you. There are thousands of dollars in the negative. That's the reality. But taking these sessions, they're not remodetizing the tokens. Are they they're just using the tokens for AI time? You could monitor, you could use the tokens normally, right? Yeah, just by taking over small account, but then you could proxy it. Remember, we saw that Chinese auction place. You resell it, resell the token time and all that and that's how you monetize it. Yes, sir. It's happening in China right now, you know? What a tell-bale, it's right there. I mean, I feel like these AI companies could lock this down. I mean, there's easy, but security guardrails on it where the tokens couldn't be utilized

21:37outside of a certain IP range or something like that. What are you going to do, geofencing? And then cut off half the planet? Yeah, that's true. You're trying to suck people into using it more and more so then they become normalized to it and need it. But think about it like this. Let's say that in Trump, it does that. What you said, right? Yeah. Okay. The next family, if we'll still is going to add a rogue comb extension to your browser. That's going to act as a proxy. Now what? Now I was going through your fucking web browser. So now they sink your tokens and your bandwidth. That's right. Just like our friends in LG. Oh my God. Talk about that a little bit. You sent me over a video of how this LG TV, some researchers doing some fine work and they had that your television was recording all of your conversations. Even if you took your television off of the network, it's still recorded. So your TV has memory in it. This recorded your television which forms be reconnected and then uploaded.

22:38And they also your TV's crawling your network looking for all the devices connected to your home network. It's going to discovery scan as soon as you connect the TV to your network. That's the crazy shit from the from the positive side. What could that be used for? Because there are stuff I says you bring in like your Google Nest Amazon. I think does it when you add a new Alexa to your network. It searches for other Alexa's on your network. Right. Right. So what benefit is your TV? I mean the TV now just displays a picture. Like it's not like it's that connecting to the I guess maybe they can make it. So if you're watching a Netflix show and one one one how part of the house and you hit pause. I guess it might be able to tell you you can restart it in another part of the show. In other part of the house maybe I just I just don't know why they be connected or need to be connected. Here's where it probably started. Okay. And then I'm going to take it to where it ended.

23:38All right. Okay. So yes, you're right with all the smart tech that has been developed over the last 15 years. There are several protocols like a Vahee right. A Vahee is like an underlying protocol that you can connect smart things together. So the TV can connect to your smart lights which are connected to the fucking microwave. And then what you do is you can have popcorn being made and the lights come down with the movie stars. That's totally doable right now. And that's great. And there's other protocols aside from a Vahee and all that. But here's the thing though, right. It's not necessarily a problem. The problem is when that television offers the that capability as a monetizable source. Right. In that same video, I don't want to give credit. I want you guys to watch this. Let me load up the video real quick so get the title and the name of the YouTube channel. It's absolutely worth the watch.

24:38And so this was done by gamer Nexus gamers Nexus. They've done great. Of course, if you ever see the other videos, you've done other similar right. Those guys are good. Yeah. They're a little long. They're like a Rogan episode, but they're good. Yeah. Yeah, they do two hour episodes of them breaking technology and they tell you, look, this is fucked. Right. But in this, in this episode, the latest one they have is called 260, 216 million spy TVs that LG smart TV problem. That's it guys. It's going to open your eyes. So the problem is, is not the discovery so that your TV connect with your smart lights. That's not the issue. The problem is that there's some people within LG that are monetizing this. And actually gamers Nexus, they found the documentation. They found the product is called ACR. Right. It's called ACR. And then they even had the guy that runs it on YouTube, like a YouTube interview, like UNI talking here.

25:40And you guys like, yeah, we have like 316 million sources. We could sell that and provide people information about what devices are inside of networks. Whoa. Well, the fuck are you committing espionage at my fucking home? I had to spend $2,800 for a fucking 60 inch flat screen wall TV that I bought from my family to enjoy it. And you're monetizing the data on my network by devices so that you can make extra money. Why not just charge me five grand for the fuck a TV and we could skip all that nonsense. We have a problem, Chris. We're fucking ID scans. And now a TV's brother is all connected. You're buying devices to stick in your pocket and sticking your home that just keep track of your shit. And what's scary, what's scary is that remember when snowed into the leaks while back then

26:41there was a separate leak. I'm not maybe maybe give us some insider on this Chris because I don't know what happened. But there was like a separate leak that happened called the CIA bolt leak. You remember that? Yeah. Yeah, my fucking screen. I'm talking about technology. You're fucking Chinese camera just fucking waiting. Yeah, I would maybe that alone. But in the CIA vault leaks, by the way, do we ever track down who did those leaks? I know, I still like a ongoing right? I don't know. Okay, so after snowing there was a separate set of leaks called the CIA vault leaks. They came out of nowhere, right? And in those leaks, they talk about recording audio and tracking people using televisions. And a lot of folks were like, come on, that's got to be PS. Gamers Nexus is proven to you. Gamers Nexus made a tool, a tool hour video explains you not only is your TV doing reconnaissance on your network, but they're also recording your audio and storing it for

27:42future exotation. That's exactly. Do you think we're ever going to go back? I don't think so. I don't think we're going to turn this around unless people are willing to just stop the shit and stop purchasing companies that do this stuff. I don't see how we're going to go backwards. I'm going to start very ignorant when I say this and I hope you don't judge me too more. Absolutely not. Not to your face at least. I mean, once we close, once we, you know, I'll do it. I think that there probably needs to be an amendment or something that's added or something that says, right? Because I've heard a lot of arguments countering it, which is, well, the work privacy is not in the constitution anyway. So that doesn't fucking matter. All right? Sorry, there's a certain political party to keep saying that. I'm not going to point fingers. Libertarians? Well, I think the libertarians would want the fucking privacy as an amendment, right? But no, it's the people that pretend to be libertarians, right? And I've heard the fuck, man, I keep hearing what?

28:44They're going to whack me, right? Your camera's going to explode your face like you're probably a major. A lot more, a lot more than boom, but still don't done. Well, but all jokes aside, right? We need something that's going to say, hey, how about we respect our citizens' privacy? And if you want access to violate the privacy, how about you offer as a captain or even offer to pay them? You know how many people would actually take a payment for the LG TV to be like listening to all that? They'll take that payment. All right, let's get into it. We're beating around the bush on this one. The flock stuff. Where are we landing on flock stuff? I mean, I'll tell you that from law enforcement standpoint, there are good things that come out of flock. They are able to track vehicles and stop kids that are being kidnapped. You can pull out instances of it. You can also pull out instances where cops are using it for fucking negative things to pull chicks over because they want to talk to them. There's at least 100 instances of those at least. Yeah, but there's at least 100 cases where they solve the crime because of it, too.

29:46Well, I mean, it's said for Ted, but yeah, it creeps me out. It creeps me out to be tracked exactly where I go every single day. Now, if you sat down and asked me, hey, where do you go every day? I could tell you, I'd give you my schedule where I'm at and all that. I don't care. But to do it and not tell me you're doing it and just kind of, just kind of creeps me out. But we talk about it all the time. Our car radios track us. I mean, everything tracks us. But things we purchase, we pay for extra technology in our cars. We pay for extra technology in our phones. We pay for extra technology in all our devices that tracks us. And we don't freak out about this. Why are we freaking out about flock? Why is this the one that pushed us over the edge? Well, I mean, that is such a great question. And I'm going to give you my perspective. I think that, and by the way, before flock, right, you had axon, you had a dozen other companies doing this shit already. But dude, way back in 2007, I know for a fact, you could not drive on to Manhattan without

30:50your license plate being recorded. Every single entry and exit out of Manhattan knew exactly those cars that were parked at all the bridges and tunnels, they were, they weren't there for anything except to record your license plate. But can I tell you what the difference is? I'm going to tell you what the difference is. I'm going to tell you as an American citizen, I'll pull myself in the shoes of the average job, right? There's a fucking difference between a little ricky thing company over here in the corner of Manhattan, you know, tracking as you drive in. And they're quiet about it. They're not talking about it. Versus the Flock CEO doing public interviews on National Television, like, yeah, you don't need privacy. We're going to take care of that for you. But I'm paraphrasing. I'm paraphrasing. You see those interviews. He is really fucking outspoken about. Let's take care of it. You know, you're in his defense. He is supposed to fight for, for Flock. He's trying to keep his company alive and profitable and making money for the stack holders. Now, that's at the expense of our fucking privacy. But I mean, what do you think Mark's, uh, Mark Zuckerberg is doing.

31:53I mean, I mean, he's quiet as a mother, but he's not saying shit. He's trying to, he's hitting out 17 billion dollars to settle shit. So you know, so he doesn't have to testify about how much they're watching your shit. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, Flock, I think again, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to Y'all. I think again, the reason why Flock is blowing up literally, right down and floor that on board is, you know, country board is not playing. They're cutting them shits down, right? Uh, there's, I saw one guy. He's chopping down 15 on his own. He just chopping 15 of them shits and he drove them to the fucking precinct to the chef's office, right? They don't play down there. And I think the reason why a lot of people are becoming like really aggressive towards that business is because of the publicity and it just keeps amplifying, right? But guys, let me tell you, my brother's down to Florida, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Alabama, right? Fluck is not the only one brother. There's 12 other companies doing the same shit,

32:54they just have different names and they have different technologies, but they all do the same exactly. Just be mindful, be careful, don't get locked up because they're gonna hit you with some federal time, man. Especially across the state border is something to cut down flux, don't do it. You know what you get? You guys can do is work together, grassroots movements, I believe in grassroots, that's how I started. I'm sure you knew that. I started grassroots with nonprofits in New York City. Literally my first job was doing that. And you get some people together, you start getting people in power, you start taking over fucking boards, you start boding people in, and then you start casting those contracts. But if you do it for flock, you gotta do it for the other ones too. You gotta do it for axon as well. You gotta do it for fucking Raytheon as well. They all sell these shit, bro. It's a scary time because, but you know what's the crazy part about the story, Chris? It's unifying the people. Because I've seen both Democrats and Republicans equally pissed off about this.

33:54I don't give a shit about a politician thinks about anymore. Right. They ain't gonna do shit. Look how many things that come up that people actually have a feeling about and they say fuck that, we're going against it. Oh yeah, things that might get one of them out of power. Yeah, as soon as money becomes a thing or populism, oh my God, I think that's a, maybe you wanna get the grain, let me not do that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, well, it's a tough one, it's a tough one. I could see the benefits for protecting children. You know what I can't say? You know what I can't fathom, I can't deal with. I'll be voiceless in cases. I think it was in Texas, where, oh no, it's Oklahoma, right? Oklahoma's one of those states where abortion is illegal regardless of its incest or whatever, it's one of those fucking crazy states. And you know by the way, I've been to Oklahoma, I love Oklahoma. It's such a beautiful fucking place. Why did you have to go to San Francisco once? You had both Tesco's in Oklahoma? Yeah, that was good. Well, it's not like some of my people in Norman,

34:55you know, the Chick-A-Sharp people, right? Chick-A-Sharp nation, yeah, it rides. The crazy fucking thing is, is that it's one of those states where abortion regardless of what the fuck ever is completely illegal. And I think it's one of those big flock stories where the cops use the flock camera system to track a lady going across border, state lies and go get an abortion. What the fuck is that, bro? That's insanity. Right, you can't coalsign that, bro. But why is it illegal? I can't go to San Francisco. That's illegal. It's an easy illegal to go to a state that is, allows you to have, like, they can't you go smoke weed in Colorado because it's weed is, I mean, weed's a bad example. But you know what I'm saying? Like, if it's legal in the jurisdiction you go to, how is it illegal for someone in Oklahoma to drive to a place where it's legal to have an abortion? I don't know the legalities, bro. I'll tell you that much. But I know that we've had these incidents and they've documented it and it bugs me the fuck out. I'm not a woman.

35:56Those racial women. No, no, no, no. No, no, no. 148 episodes in and you wanna break the news now? What the hell? News alert, news alert. I'm not a woman, but I respect the woman and you know, if whatever circumstances they have to make a fucked up decision, you know, they don't need a bunch of assholes with cameras tracking their fucking movement. You know, when they gotta go do something that's legal in another state, get the fuck out of it. I'm not with that. So yeah, it saves kids, but it's abused by a whole bunch of other people. So I don't know. You wanna get into some real controversial shit here? Yeah, get some controversial shit real quick. Yeah, let's do it. What's your take on this woman who killed your three kids? Allegedly. Oh, yeah, that's a tough one. That's a tough one. So here's my take. I know and this is my experience again, being around women on my life and seeing them go through post-porn depression, post-porn depression is crazy, man. It's not fucking easy. I agree. I agree with that.

36:56I agree with that. I'm sure you went through something yourself is almost all women go through this, right? She didn't give up at the buns for a while. I hear you. It was tough on me. Tough on me. Now, that doesn't the gates, that doesn't mean she's going to kill her kids. I think that's not fucking, that's not, I'm not for that either. You know, should've got some help, should've reached out to people. Maybe her husband wasn't there enough, you know what I mean? I don't know. You don't know the story, we weren't there, right? What I found interesting was the case, the way that the jury fucking went to war with each other. That was a very bug doubts scenario. Obviously, 11 jurors found that, you know, they had some reasonable doubts about the case. Maybe the charges were it on lines. And then there was that. I think they did. What should take them with that? But whether she's in Santa, not like because of it. Yeah. This is my big issue with it. And this, you know, I've talked to some women and they agree with me on this one, you know. And so what is post-partum depression? It's a hormone imbalance, right? Right. All right. What's another hormone?

37:56What's the male hormone? Testosterone. Testosterone. Okay. So what's gonna stop the next guy who gets arrested for rape? For saying, I just had such an increased level of testosterone, I couldn't control myself. The hormones did it, not me. The staff part is, I think what I'm saying. I think it's a slippery fucking slow is what I'm saying. I'm saying that if we start blaming, what we've decided is horrible, horrible behavior on it's not my fault, my hormones were out of balance. Right. I just think it's too easy and excuse if we're gonna start doing it that way because it can happen the other direction too. I mean, so the part of this woman being charged for murder. So when someone dies, the state steps in and as a voice of the voiceless now, I'm gonna charge you with murder. I'm, you know, you're gonna, you killed somebody and you're in the state's going after you. So, I mean, I just don't think her being claim insanity is the right outcome. I mean, maybe I don't know all the stuff.

38:57The right outcome for those three kids. Like, the people that are celebrating her being insane or hearing this, what do they want? What do they want is the outcome? Like, what's the ideal outcome that she goes and has more kids? She goes and becomes a babysitter. She gets locked away in a sane silence for the rest of her life. What is the celebrated outcome on this thing? Well, first of all, I don't think anybody celebrated. He celebrated, I think it's a long word. No, there are women outside the courthouse that are celebrating her as almost hero-like figure. Yeah, I can't, I can't see that because it is one thing to like, to sit in the front of a bus, right? There's one thing to create the underground railroad, right? It's one thing to do, you know, that's, that was, those are strong women. Sure. Those are heroes, right? Cleaning your kids, I don't know, I can't, there's no fucking hero dominant there, right? And we've known about post-partum depression

39:57for a very long time because we've had suicides, we've had people women giving up their kids. In fact, there was such a big deal that two-poch made a story on Brenda Hadda, baby, remember that? Oh, yeah. Two-poch's been told, two-poch, two-poch talked about this shit 35 years ago. It's like, we know this is a thing and there was even a point where then we had like the, like the baby sanctuary with the fire department. The fire department was like, yo, we'll take the babies. No questions asked. No questions, you're not gonna get trouble just drop the baby and we'll take the babies, right? Well, I suppose that's the same thing. Well, that's a different fucking type of thing. Oh, I didn't know. No fucking equate Epstein to the firefighters, come on. Oh, but if he was taking no questions asked, he was taking babies. This fucking crazy, see guys? You know that, yeah. It's hard to be serious full of time. Talk about some dark fucking humor. Cheese. But no, so we've known this been a thing and the firefighters have been doing, you know, trying to leave you back for quite some time. You know, maybe she thought, maybe she didn't think about it.

40:57Or maybe she was so fucking worked mentally, emotionally, that was not even a thing. You have to be. I don't care who you have to be somewhat insane to wrap exercise rubber bands around your kids the next. Yeah, I don't know, kid. I don't know, it's motherfuckers. These people are fucking out of their minds. She's no hero, right? And so, but then on the flip side, on the flip side, now let me ask you about the juror that one guy, the lone juror. Cause I see people celebrating him as a hero too. They even like, I even saw a clip. Somebody took the clip of the 12, the 12 angry men. Remember that fellow? Sure. And remember at the end, there was that one father and I was like, no, he's going to jail. I don't give a fuck, right? He fought until the end until he realized them. I'm doing this because my, my relationship, my son is fucked up. You know, I have reasonable doubt. Go ahead, not guilty, right? So people see him like a hero. What do you think?

41:58I mean, it is very, whoever, man or woman, I don't know if it's he or she or whatever it is. But the balls you have to have, metaphorically, I mean, you could have internal balls. To go against a room full of people like that. And I'm sure it got very loud and people, I've been in jury room. I was a juror once and it is like, we had two people go the opposite way of what the jury would. I mean, it took us, I mean, our case was a case where a guy stabbed another guy in a Bordega and it was on video. But the guy ran out through the knife and they never found the knife. So there is these two jurors. One of them was he was from Russia and he knew family members that went to the gulag and all that. And so he was like, I can't send somebody to jail. It took us a couple hours just to convince him, you're not sending him to jail. You're just deciding whether the facts of the case were proven or not proven beyond the reasonable doubt. And he came around. But then there was this other woman. It's like, they didn't find the knife, I can't convict him. I can't say he did it. I went to like, well, there's video of it. There's a doctor that says he was stabbed.

42:59There was, you know, everything. She needed the knife in order to. And it took us, you know, a day and a half on a crime that there was a clear video and no one was disputing. That was him in the video of it. So to sit there for four, five, six days, whatever they did. And one person just holding strong against 11 others. Yeah. It takes some conviction to not just say, I just want to go home, whatever you guys say, I don't care. I'm getting out of here. Okay, because it's a moment. It's a point that your body's like, yeah, fuck it. Yeah, you just break down. Let them retrial the case. We try. Think about every woman that had sex with either one of us. And it's just like, we got fine, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know what? If I don't do it, someone else will fucking. Yeah, yeah. I guess I can get that drunk. Sure. Yeah, I think about my first love that pulled my ass. Yeah, it's a messed up case, man. And I've seen a lot of back and forth for like Twitter and Reddit and YouTube.

44:01I mean, every way, even the radio, I have the AM radio, whatever. And it's a random new station. I believe you're going to have to explain to people what AM radio is. Yeah. Well, AM radio is going to be your last resort when the fucking the AI take over. And there's no way to the fucking communicate. You're going to have a random person at home with a ham radio talking to you like, hey, guys, look, stay home during the day at night. You can go outside because that night the fucking the sun doesn't, you know, generate enough electricity. You've explained the whole shitload of complex topics on this episode. AM radio is the one that's going to baffle them. Yeah, it's the last beacon of humanity, bro. Like it's, it's the last thing. Uh, but yeah, you guys, you know that you know the thing with little knobs and it has sometimes has an antenna. Yeah. So when you turn it on, it's usually FM radio because it's a more mainstream. But if you flip this one of the points is AM to AFM, you get a whole new world. A whole new world of random crazy people talking shit on AM.

45:02But yeah, man, it's pretty bugged out. I honestly between my, I, we've seen all of our IDs being fucking for sale. And then of course, flood cameras watching us as well as sites of mundane shit. And now this, you know, hum, juries, I got to say, it's been a hell of a week, you know, it's been a lot. Oh, yeah, we're still at war with Iran. Oh, yeah, Russia still fighting Ukraine. There's still so much out going out there. Did you see, oh, I don't want to get into that. Look, I think it's a Patreon rant. Uh, did you see like Ludwig and Jared Kushner basically like blowing Putin and Moscow. Please, please, can you give us peace, please? He's so much taller. I think that was please, please, can you give us peace? We need the midterms. That is one of the biggest, most pathetic things I've ever seen in my life. I've never seen that. You can say whatever you want about George W. Bush.

46:03He ain't going to fucking Moscow at a bank. Nobody for peace. He dodged that shoe that one time. That was pretty badass. Oh, he dodged. Oh, right. It was too. It was too. Yeah. Uh, you know, pick, pick the punkest president we ever had. Fucking was a Howard Tafts. The guy was, you know, he had to shit. I don't even sign anything. He want to be a Moscow right now, bigot for fucking peace. I just, I don't know what happened. I don't want to stop your boys here. I don't know brother. I don't know. You want to do more cyber security? You want to wrap the show up? No, it's one more cyber. There's a lot of cyber. We fucking went off with flak. Flak, fucked everything up. And LG. I give you end of life routers. Um, let's go. The DOD efforts to protect the service men for commercial location data. You know, that's fucking ridiculous. That's again, one back to privacy and corporate greedism bullshit. All right. We'll do the camera. We'll do the, uh, the, the, the system stuff. So exploited, abandoned, still online. The end of life router is CISA keeps ordering unplugged.

47:06So CISA keeps adding actively exploitable bugs in unsupported D-link routers, um, to the known exploitable vulnerabilities catalog. Requiring the fix is often not a patch, but to unplug and replace, um, whole bunch of, uh, routers, uh, are still route traffic years after their end of life. Um, but the attackers treat that as a feature, uh, botnet knows resident of the proxies, DNS hijacking, uh, beach heads on lands. Um, what are we going to do about this? How are we going to send out a kill order to these devices? Tough phone, brother, because you and I have been talking about this for years, for years, even before we started the podcast, and it was just you and I traveling the country doing presentations and speeches to people and organizations. We've been talking about, hey, your router, you know, that cheap router that the, your, your provider sent you or the one you put on Amazon for 40 bucks. Yeah, those routers, uh, are essentially an entry point into, into your home.

48:07Um, we've asked people to update them, but then, you know, some of these routers are hard to update, Chris, because you now you got to, you got to find a router IP address, sometimes it's not always one nine two one six eight one dot one. Right? Sometimes, yeah, sometimes it's different IPs, you know, how to put the find it. Sometimes it's 10.0.0.1. Yeah. Right. Right. So, you know, and then you go to, and then you go there and ask you for admin password. Why are you talking about an admin password? What the fuck is it admin admin? Is it admin password? Sometimes it's admin admin. Sometimes it's admin password. Sometimes it's password password. Right? Right? So, it's like, there's no uniformity. There's no set easy instructions. And so, since it's kind of freaking the fuck out, why? Because we're in the middle of a war. One, two, there's like mass espionage happening. I guess the United States all at the same time for all different kind of groups. And half of our population is sitting at home with an outdated end of life router that there's no way to update, you don't even know how to update the shit.

49:08And there might be no patches to update it anyway. So what do you do? You have to replace them. You have to shut them down and replace them. Who's going to pay for that? You? What if I don't want to pay for it? Well, be a part of a botnet. I just don't give a shit. Yeah, I don't care, fuck it. It's just like we've mentioned in the war. Sometimes you get the fuck it. It's for Jury's? Same shit here. Yeah, it works. Who cares? Well, the adversaries do. You know, do you think we'll ever get to a point where CISA can push out a kill order to them? No, because that would directly conflict with your libertarian rules of life. And that's going to go against a lot of people's rule, like personal beliefs, right? I don't want anybody, especially not from the government connected to my home network to kill my router. Especially if there's no work around, there's no replacement, there's no nothing. But John Deere can do it. Why can't CISA do it?

50:10Well, John Deere has lobbyists. CISA doesn't. That's the big fucking difference. You know what I mean? It's, you know, what, here's what it makes sense. It's borderline socialism, which people are going to hate. But here's what, these are what makes sense. So you have a lot of factories all in Detroit right now that are empty. They're collecting dust. Before you even fucking say it, you fucking tell me that you're going to fucking put a government supplied router into your fucking house. Tell me you're going to do that. And no, not me. Not I, this guy, not so much. Don't even go down that fucking path. Here, here, friendly citizen, please install this in your network. So then you find yourself in a conundrum of sorts. Because do you want a bad Chinese actor in your network? Well, you was government in your network. And you also fucked the part that Chinese actors probably don't respect your privacy. You don't have a fucking about what porn sites you're looking at.

51:11They just keep you sick. Clean too. He's going to keep all the fucking other viruses out of there. They're going to clean that shit. They're going to update your system. There's going to free assessments and everything. They might even send an email like, hey, but it's up to you. You're shit. You're good. Just don't replace it. Because I need this shit. Right. So listen, hey, maybe maybe it's okay. We just accept our Chinese overlords. I mean, what the fuck? Not me, friend. I'm going down with the ship. I'm running D-links everywhere. You know I love the D. I know you love the D. You're a D-man. D-man in the house. That's right. All right. Support Hacker and the Fend the Patreon. This is a little bit of a flavor. The last few minutes was kind of a flavor of what, or a Patreon episode and see it like last week was the Jim Girl friend. You guys want to listen to her interview. She'll be on there. We're going to start having more guests. She was amazing. Shout out to her for coming on. We're going to have more guests. If you want to be a guest, shoot us an email about why you should be a guest. And if your story sucks, we're going to tell you they suck.

52:11Yeah. Command out with us. We'll talk some shit. We'll have some laughs. I mean, what the hell? Why not? Support Safe Hills Threat Exposure Management Platform and their penetration testing services. Reach out to them on LinkedIn, visit Safefield.com or email them at infoatsafefield.com. Merch is up at hackerandthefed.com. You can get a beautiful t-shirt or hoodie. The cold weather is coming. The nice, nice full zip-soudies. Five star reviews wherever you download, subscribe to Hacker and The Fed, share us on social media. Tell your co-workers, tell your friend. Tell your Chinese overlords. Support Hacker and The Fed. Yeah. What is it? All right, friend. Fun episode. Good hang. Happy Labor Day. Much love. Hugs and kisses. Wax your butt hole. Wax the butt hole.