168: Oh, You Dreamers | Can a Flat Organizational Structure Work for a Nonprofit? with Dr. Pablo Otaola

A nonprofit was built to run like a co-op. Everyone's equal. There's no HR. Is that your dream, or a nightmare that feel suspiciously like high school?

I'm joined by Dr. Pablo Otaola, CEO of Thriving Culture LLC, to tackle a listener question about this exact scenario. An executive director walked into an organization built on flat structure ideals, but instead of a utopia they found bullying, cliques, and power plays..

Real Listener Question:

"I'm an ED for a nonprofit with a flat structure. We supposed to run like a co-op, where everyone but the board and ED shares the same title. The goal was to create a fair and equitable environment, but in practice it's like high school. Bullying, power plays, cliques trying to control the group with zero accountability. How do I change the organization?"

Pablo and I break down the problems we've seen with flat organizational structures, what actually creates a thriving culture, and how a nonprofit leader can start changing the DNA of an org that's been stuck for years.

What You'll Learn:

• The building blocks of a healthy organizational culture
• Why flat structures look SO good on paper but may fall flat (pun intended!) in real life
• Why "no HR" is a legal red flag no matter how good your intentions are
• How a leader's personality can get embedded into org culture
• What it really takes to change a culture that's been encoded for years
• When to stop reading blogs and get outside help from someone who's done this before

Bottom line: You don't hire the surgeon not to cut you. If your culture is broken, it's okay to ask for help. Change is uncomfortable, but it's the only way forward!

Resources from this Episode

• Learn more about Pablo's work at Thriving Culture LLC: https://www.thrivingculturellc.com/
• Previous Episode: https://birkenlaw.com/charity-therapy-podcast/ct167-directors-officers-insurance-cody-wiswasser/
• Episode Transcript: https://birkenlaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/CT168_Transcript.pdf

Connect with Us

• Jess Birken: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessbirken/
• Dr. Pablo Otaola: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pablootaola/

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