17 retirement mistakes Australians still make

0:00Hey there, here's a quick note. This podcast contains general financial information only. That means it's not specific to you, your needs, goals or financial objectives. So don't act on the information until you've spoken to your financial planner. You'll find our full disclosure, disclaimer, and link to our financial services guide in the show notes. Hello, good evening, Gidey. It is just after 12 p.m. and we are recording, and if you're listening on a Saturday morning at 7 a.m. for you, it can be two different times in two different places. It's incredible how maths works. We are going to bring you 17 retirement mistakes, brought you by the king of retirement mistakes. A mistakes, too. I am, of course, being joined by none other than Drew Meredith. How are you going? The fast, the quickly graying Drew Meredith apparently. Quickly graying indeed. I'm good, good. What's happening? You were saying there was not enough news to talk about this week, but there was a lot going on around the world. But also, you did get a comment this week. I'd like to comment from someone who I did see posted multiple times

1:02on your YouTube videos. What did they say? Quite strange. Drew gets grayed by the week after the number of rings commenting. No, someone else. The comment on the number of rings last week? Yes. Indeed, do get gray. And I think I did comment back, you know, fit of rage. Just saying, we know we've upgraded our camera from nothing to 4k. So now you can see everything. But maybe I'll go back. Well, I think rainy footage is better than 4k. No, no, but I've had actually one podcast guest who was recording remotely with me turned down the resolution for that very first. Was it yourself? I don't know for the minute, I'll tell you about that. But we do have a bit of a, we did take a bit of time out. We might bring this up on the screen. He had been for anyone that's watching. I'll preferably not. We did go back through the Mortal Partners YouTube channel, Drew. Can I just say I do not have any input into the thumbnail as we get put up onto YouTube? And we thought we just reflect on some of the things that maybe have a transpired. Now YouTube is actually doing very well. Like don't fall victim. 2026 trap with money burning.

2:02ETF trap. Don't do this. Don't do this. Watch out. So I wanted to put you on the spot. Well, you got a few. Don't do this. A lot of times. Don't do that. But there's a positive. Do this. Do this when you retire. Watch out. Don't do this. Pay it off. Question mark. Watch out with elbows face. So you obviously, you're doing very well on YouTube indeed and the YouTube channel. What's that no gray hair on there? What was that no gray hair? But there's a lot of saturation. I wanted to ask you, given that you have got a reputation now of excellent YouTube content, I was going to ask you for as many retirement mistakes as you could possibly reel off on the spot. And I'll, we'll count them up. Okay. Oh god. I'll give you a minute to think. We'll start the buzzer. And anyone that's watching live can comment in the chat. We'll get some of these live on air with the great man. It's going to be the biggest stitch up in history. It is. I know what you're going to do,

3:03because you're going to come back next week with your own one for me. Underestermating how long you're going to live for. Most people do I have to explain these? I just have to say that. Yeah. So underestermating how long you live. I'll try and count them up. I think investing only for income. Investing only for income. For getting to invest for growth. For getting to invest for the same thing. Okay. I'll give you one. So that's the question. Ignoring inflation. Assuming your spending is going to be linear throughout your retirement. Assuming your spending is going to be linear. Yeah. Naive diversification. Naive diversification at six. Is also concentration risk, which is the flip side of that one. I'm just trying to give myself a little bit of. I forgot one of my own videos to talk about this. Do we need to bring up, maybe we can bring up. Not being prepared. I could use one in particular. Not being prepared. Yeah. Not having a true objective of what you're trying to achieve. No objective. Got it. I think I'm just trying to ramble on here. Most of these videos have 17. Not, I mean, there's a perfect example. So you're not reviewing your superannuation. Not reviewing your superannuation regularly enough. That's 10. Not ingesting in line with what your actual income needs are.

4:04So a lot of people end up taking more risk of less risk of letting you portfolio. That's 11. Assuming debt's going to be worthwhile in retirement. I'm treating you now. Yeah, that's 12. Because debt, that's what I'm just reading off your thumbnails. Exactly. I'm not everybody to it. They also don't do this. And which one are they? You're not getting as much into superannuation as you can. Not applying for benefits that you're able to get. That's a big like age pension. That's 14. Everyone just assumes they'll get a pension. Yep. But probably the biggest, most expensive one is not commencing a pension from your superannuation assets once you can. So not just flicking the pension face in your super. That's like an incredibly simple one. Okay. But so many people miss it. Particularly in large amounts. That's probably the number one. I did like, don't do this one thing. And then in the thumbnail, I'd say, don't fall victim to this one thing or super trap. And then there's one thing. That's the one that I do. So you're at 15 now. We need two more. You need two more. All right. Assuming that you're not going to, I mean, one thing a lot of people get wrong is worrying

5:05a lot about paying for age care at some point in the future. Yep. Not realizing that things change a lot. So you're worrying about paying for age care. Yep. Like flimsy bad things. You've overly conservative and concerned about the rad or the, what do they have to pay in the future when they don't actually know you to be. Yeah. And the final one. I had one and I just lost it on the way through, which is, no, the other big one is assuming that they will stay in the same house. And then as a bonus one, helping their kids too much. Wow. Too much. So we, it really leads to me up there. We, we have just got 18. 18. 18. 21. Don't have to watch the videos anymore. That is. The Wattle Partners YouTube's secret source, ladies and gentlemen, and we have just extracted it from the almighty Lord himself of retirement. So I'm not just reading it all up there. No, that's it. No, no, no, no, no, no, teleprompter ever involved in these podcasts. That's phenomenal mate. Well done. Which one was your favorite? Are there the pension phase one? Yeah. The very final one actually is quite interesting giving your kids too much. Yeah.

6:05I find that all too often that people that sounds like a video that they're so worried about helping their kids, but that you could have someone with, you know, 1.5 million that's generally not and generating enough income to fund their lifestyle, but then they decide they want to give $200,000 each to their children and then that changes completely. Yeah. You can be the total difference, can't it? Yeah. Well, that's incredible mate. Great stuff. On the spot, I did put him down for that. So if you alluded to something, I didn't think it'd be that. Wow. Tell us what you think in the comments live. If you're watching, let's give Drew a score out of 10. So I had a question here. So Heath Moss, the great Heath Moss, I might say, is in the chat. Good on your mate. Thank you for commenting. You said, hey, Jens, Heath Moss here, not having a realistic budget for retirement, I have found clients with this problem. Thank you for commenting, Heath is also an industry. Not doing a budget at all. Not doing more common than you think. Yeah. You do a reverse budget. Yeah. I find out how much you spend.

7:05They're just accordingly. So you might be more prospective. You're not a prospective. You got to look backwards. You can't budget what you're thinking. That's what people's worth. You got it. No, no, no. What did you actually spend? I see what you actually spent. Because there's nothing you want people to know. Well, if you're earning $350,000 before retirement, you're not going to automatically spend $80,000 in retirement three to years later. So you have to look pretty closely at it. Yeah, fair enough. OK. There is a lot of news out this week. Drew has been scaring the interwebs. Mostly there's a normal web, not the dark web. He's got a couple from that side, I think. And that would be the private credit stuff, which is obviously on the dark web. We do have information out of Apple. Drew says there's a generational global bond meltdown happening. It's underway. Yeah, it was massive. Stay tuned for that one. What do you want to begin? I was going to ask you, what do you think people are doing with property at the moment? So property prices are falling everywhere. But in my suburb at least, and quite a few that I drive through, there seems to be more coming up for sale.

8:06Very helpful. When it moves. Yeah. I'm not in two rack. It's OK. Some coach grass. But it's like Drew leaves the table. And you talk to people like property, the price is about a full and five, 10% already. And more are coming to market. But I've met plenty of people like, well, if I'm going to buy now, I'm going to be 10% am I going to be 10% lower in 12 months time? Are people that bought in the last few years just holding still, or are they spending less? And then people that are selling now, have already paid off their mortgage and they're freeing up. Well, they're moving further out. So it's really interesting to know that drivers have, it's not huge supply historically, but it seems to be more supply than you'd think in a, what's supposed to be a buyer's market. Yeah, we should do the general financial advice warning. And I'll answer your question in just a second. General financial advice rules apply to all podcasts on the rest network. As does on the YouTube channel for water partners, general financial advice means we don't take into account your needs, goals, objectives, and act on the information until you've spoken of a financial planner. And if we mentioned things like super funds or any type of financial quote unquote product, they have a PDS and TMD, which you should read before you make a decision to acquire or

9:08sell or do something with that financial product. Like don't do anything with your super fund until you've read the PDS. That's just silly. And if you want to find out more, you can head to ras.com.au slash FSG to learn more. So now with that disclaimer in place, I would say that I'd be going heavy into property right now. Loading up. Yes. I think it's getting close. I think we're at a point now where it's obviously hard with high mortgage rates. Okay. We all criticize the Australian government, the Labour government who's in the moment. We just said, you guys are idiots. Like you in particular. Yeah. There's a few of us. But we've said like the greeting for the show lately has been like, get a comrades. Um, so we've all criticized the government. And why have we criticized the government? It's not because they're taxing our source. I'm like, the reason that we've done it is because they've, we feel that they've done the wrong thing. Yeah. Like they haven't solved the problem. They've just made it harder for things that aren't really the problem. Like negative gearing. Okay. That's fair enough. Maybe we, that's fair enough that they made a change there.

10:08But somehow the stuff, it's a bit of a focus. So we've been criticizing them for, first of all, not doing anything. This is both sides of politics for not doing anything. Second of all, we started criticizing them by saying, you haven't fixed the problem. You probably made the problem worse. And now property prices have fallen. Which is kind of what they were aiming for without aiming for it. Yeah, that was kind of a affordability. But here's a point. If we do believe what we believed two months ago when we said, you guys are idiots, you're not fixing the problem, wouldn't that mean that if prices have gone lower? It's time to buy. Yeah. I think, as a first time, is it going to help in first home buyers though? Well, they're not going to interest rates or at six and a half percent. No, they're kind of negative equity. But the government can kind of interest rates, can't they? Very. That's the RBI. It's an independent monetary authority. No, so my point is that what I believe is that they haven't fixed a supply demand in balance. We're not building enough houses for the number of people that are coming in or already here.

11:12Therefore, it would hold under simple arithmetic and economics that not enough houses to many people, structural prices rising over the very long term. Yeah. The trend, in my opinion, is still bottom left to top right. Well, this is a blip on that. I think that interest rates are hurting some homeowners and that sort of thing. But I think it is inevitable that prices will at least stabilize. You don't think the cellophils are staying? No. No. We're in no... Not many people buy houses in winter. I think that there will be some... Spring. Are you mentioned? Yeah, lucky ones. Oh, it's seasonal. Yeah. There will be some people... There will be some pain from investors. Yeah. It's undoubted that like one third of properties in Australia were investment properties. Yeah, they already had higher interest rates to do with. And even if they were a positive looking, they probably became a negative looking at after that. Yeah. And then the second thing is on that is that those people can still own those properties.

12:13It's the new properties that are the problem. Yeah. But as we know, it's heard the earlier point that unless you're incentivizing, like really incentivizing people to build houses, we're still going to be in supply deficit. So over the long term, I would still say that the trend is still up and to the right. Let's make it a bit of fun. Twelve months from now, what do property prices return? They're still lower. I can fall another 5% from here. So Drew is saying... As a broad total... ...setter. ...tember, 2027 right this down. You're saying negative 5%. Yeah. Okay, Drew. I'll take that. Also, that's my name. What do you say up 20%. Is this... Is this like Australian median? Yeah, I see. Because there's obviously going to be... And this is always caveat. There's always going to be suburbs, areas that do well. You have an influx of people, people move from Victoria to Queens, like all those sort of things will be different. But we're saying overall, we're just saying someone with a call logic down there. They're getting that up from here. All right. I say... ...you said an ambulance five to say... ...what you can do if you're in this industry is you can take a monthly number multiply by 12.

13:15They're for Daniel. And then seasonally adjust. From this exact point, from September, I think the process will be up five percent. If it falls five percent from here, it would be I think one of the worst sell-offs in history for property. Because... Some of it will be five to ten. Yeah, for sure. I think it'll be up. It's exciting. Because I think it'll be up. Well, you know me. I'm a half-guys-half full. I have a guy. Me too, just not for property. Climate mistakes. Property process falling. I said I'll avoid the mistakes. Not how to make them. So, yeah, I think plus five percent because of the exact thing I just mentioned, supply constraints. Yeah. And we're going to talk about bonds in a second, which are... Everyone's like drawing for that part of the podcast. But hold on guys. Like, resist the temptation to fast forward if you're watching it back. Realistically, interest rates are still quite high. Yeah. Because inflation is slightly above the time.

14:16No, it may increase again slightly. Interest rates may go up slightly. However, people are already starting to feel the pain. Even though the metrics might not say it, the people are feeling the pain. And so my suggestion is that we've seen... We're kind of near the top of the interest rate cycle. It could be totally wrong about this. So don't bet your house on it, literally. But... Rowan task. Rowan task. But I genuinely think that we will see at least a moderation of interest rate expectations. Yeah. It's good for the RBA because they want people to still be fearful. But I just genuinely think that. And if that is the case, the property market will stabilize. It might be useful. Let's hope so. I'm not hoping. We're not expecting it to... I wouldn't surprise it, falls, but I'm not hoping it does. Yeah. Well, who knows? We're talking about mistakes. This headline though, this is a generational global bond meltdown. There's no easy way out. That's what I read during the week. Well, before we get to that generational bond meltdown, which I am intrigued by Matt Crommery in the chat says, cost of finance plus cost of labor plus cost of materials plus falling house prices.

15:18Supply is not lifting any time soon. Well, they're building a house next door to me. And it was like a concrete slab timber frame. A couple of metal poles over here. I can't go out and lie back out. But it was... It didn't seem like a lot to get that up. But I'm assuming the cost of just putting a concrete slab and then a timber frame. Oh, yeah. Before they go up to the next level, his massive property already spent $200,000 to get to that point. Well, the council took $200,000 just to get out of bed. They're going to pay 400 people to make a decision. So your anti-cancels now. So bring down the cancel. No, I'm not. Don't look at my backyard. So I just... I think that people, like the building cost to Montgomery's point of going way up, you can't really solve that problem. Yeah. And inflation on goods and services in the construction sector is huge. There was something about a $200,000 sparky in the paper today. What do you mean? Like a electrician. Electrician is getting paid to $200,000. Oh, yeah. Because data center rollout, massive infrastructure projects,

16:18shortage of skilled trades and unskilled trades. Well, this is a pretty fundamental understanding of how economics works. Is that... No, but... I think we're forgetting. It's more like a market. It's legit. Like, if you have these big infrastructure projects, which are typically seem to be good, like build some projects around Victoria or Sydney or WA, whatever, where those people come from. They come from the private sector. Yeah. They go to the public sector to work on those projects. But what happens is, because there's fewer people in the private sector, the prices supplying to money in those industries goes up. So the domestic electrician charges more than they ever did. Because all the other electricians have gone to the big projects. And so we're starting to see that trade off in real time. But it's not just the government anymore. It's also data center built out for electricians. And I'll tell you what, if I was to... Like, I'm a very spiritual person, as everyone knows. When I come back in the next life, I'm going to come back as a sparky. Because that's the profession I would want to be doing. I'm getting a million bucks a year. Right now. I think $200,000 sparkies. I think those are the beginning. I think it's $300,000 sparkies, to be honest. And legit, I would love to be in that industry right now.

17:22So anyway, generational bond meltdowns has drew Meredith from what part of the future? I did not. That's what else is so far. What's happening? Why are they reporting this? Because there's a lot of rumblings about this. It's happening everywhere. It started with... Was it Besson? The head of the Treasury? Starting a buyback of US government bonds. But basically... And I was talking to clients about this earlier today. The US, I think, the 30 bond yields over... Or the 10-year bond yield in Australia is over 5%. The 30 in America is over 5%. So bond yields are an important impact influence on everything there. You know, cost of capital, cost of debt to build these data centers, the cost of the loans we have. They all come back from a cash rate or a bond yield. And what, you know, equities are worth and what returns businesses can make. But I don't know if you were clearly around back then too. I'm sorry for that. But interest rates of 5% aren't necessarily a bad thing. Like it's... We're making out as if a 5% bond yield is going to destroy the global economy. So pre-GFC, which is a long time ago, and it's, I think, high or interest rates or positive interest rates

18:25are actually a net good for the economy. It means there has to be some several level of return for what you're doing with the money, otherwise you just hold it in cash. But I think everyone seems to be worried that high bond yields are going to impact on interest payments or slow down into our economies or the US government's going to default or the US government won't be... It always goes into this rabbit hole of, you know, the US dollar won't be the reserve currency anymore. They're far bit coin. Yeah. And then have a stable coin that goes back to US dollars anyway. And it's kind of the whole problem, isn't it? So everyone's freaking out about this because the cost of capital is increasing for everyone. But I think you and I generally agree. I'm not worried about higher bond yields or higher interest rates. Maybe if they went up to 12%, but to speak to clients who built bought houses in the 80s and 90s, interest rates and bond yields were 12 or 15%. That was problematic. Five is just normal. I think we're just coming out of an abnormal period for interest rates. Yeah, there's a bit up to unpack here. So the chief fear is that the government can't repay the interest payments.

19:29Yeah, which they can. And they typically do that by issuing new bonds. Yeah. And they issue new bonds to pay the old bonds. And the new ones are more expensive. Yeah. Not always, they can be. Not always. There was a view in the 2020s, early 2020s, when interest rates were very low, that like German government, for example, is issuing basically a 100% bond. Yeah, 100% is 1%. Right. And so there was a view that the way out of that was that it's so low, right? That even if interest rates go back up, what happens in bond markets? Remember, they moved the opposite direction. So if you issue a bond for 1% and the interest rate goes up, the 1% bond is less, it's worth less. It's nearly less. Then the new bond issued a 2%. Because why would you buy a 1% bond when you can buy a 2% bond? Yeah. So the view amongst economists and central banks and politicians who understood it, was that if you had 1% bonds and inflation comes back,

20:30what then happens is interest rates go up. Yeah. Because remember, we couldn't get inflation for like 5% is really important. Yeah. So what was happening is this globalization, technology, all these things were pushing down process of things. And so people thought, okay, well, interest rates are going to go up. The existing bonds that are this trillions of dollars of these old bonds, they will be inflated away, meaning that there we less of them, there be less value because the new bonds that we issue, because we're so good and our future selves are going to be so smart with our economy, will issue new bonds at 3%. The old bonds will be worth less, but the new ones there won't be as many of them. But now it's like the new bonds are issuing at a 5% coupon, and it's like, okay, that's a real debt on a bigger pile in a historical sense. My view, if it's worth, is that I feel like this is a pretty normal cycle. Yeah, I feel like it's, you've got inflation across the world. It's across the world. It's what it is. It just rates a higher because of inflation, which means new bond you bond

21:31and raising is going to be higher. But I think there's this, and it comes back to MMT, who we've talked about, like not the MMT theory, but this constant. But the part of it is that the central bank is the backup buyer of bonds. So it's not like the government's going to issue bonds, and the central bank's not going to buy those bonds. That central bank can then sell them out onto the market at a different point in time. But every time there's a crisis, central bank step in, and they buy bonds from the government, so the government can spend more money. And it's not, that act itself isn't necessarily the biggest cause of inflation. It's what happens with that money. We saw that all the money that was handed out by the government's in pandemic just contributed to inflation because it all went on to either crypto or what. Consumer goods or exactly. So I think that bits, like the governments aren't going to default with all kinds of stories about this. The US, I don't think the US dollars ever, I mean, maybe not ever. Someone might watch this in 100 years' time and things have changed. But in for this foreseeable future, the US dollar is going to be the global reserve currency. And that's what matters most. It can be. One of the things to be mindful, there's a lot of theories in the Bitcoin,

22:36as you've seen, burrow community. The average. The average, the average. The average. That includes Zimbabwe. Yeah, it's tricky because. We've talked about this, so I know, is it really. for people in bond yields. So we can see the global ag is where we actually want to do global. We'll do US 10 year bond is 4.77% Brazil's 14%. Jesus, get me some of those. Australia 5.18%. What's interesting about this drew is that because people don't actually understand bond markets. Japan 3. That's good. Japan 3. Remember that was like negative infinity. The thing is because people don't understand bond yields and bond investing. Their reaction is interest rates up, like these interest rates up, shares fall, property fall, not good.

23:43But remember when you're an investor you don't have to choose between just shares and property. It's not linear. You could go, oh wow, the government is willing to pay me 5%. I will just do that. So just buy bonds or infrastructure. Money has to go somewhere. And then when this thing starts to fall the value of your bond increases and you go on by the shares again or you go on by something else. I'm not saying to do that because it's probably not a sensible trade necessarily. But it's important to understand how money flows and doesn't flow. Yeah. Would you say, actually you're guessing that you already suggest that maybe interest rates are going to be, this is Dr. Andrew Terram. Dr. Andrew, who agreed on this for the long running sufferers. You kind of thinking that interest rates will be steady around this point. I can bond yields will be lower 12 months from now. Bond yields will be lower. Yeah. I don't know what's going to happen with interest rates. That's. So Dr. Andrew there is actually given up these persona. Bond yields are a bit more predictable. Maybe more predictable. I don't know where there's less narrative on bond bond yields because

24:46the market decides them, not the central bank. It feels like because there was a chart today. Something like 30 of 25 and the last 30 quarters inflation has been above target. And the only way the RBA can slow down inflation is to restrict demand by increasing interest rates. And that's what the bond yield prices in. But I'd suggest 12 months from now I'm comfortable retaining fixed rate government bonds on the expectation. Not that I expect them to gain. But if you've got duration of say six years, is what you'd think about in bonds, that means if interest rates went up one percent, you'd lose six percent of your capital. It's still. And do you see that going up another one percent from where it is? Not really. Not perceivably. Yeah. Hefe. Hefe in the chat is doing the Lord's work here. Where are six workers for that matter? Anakin, you have asked a question about superannuation and shares and these types of things in live chat. Definitely that tiptoes into something that we call personalized financial advice, which you do need to see a financial plan of four. So please refer to the moneysmart.gov.au website

25:51where you can find a list of financial advisors and they'll be able to help you out. That's how you verify for an educational point on that. You can verify who is and who is an illegitimate financial advisor by going to moneysmart.gov.au, financial advisor register. Great question and good follow up there. Hefe, thank you very much. Okay. So in short, something to be aware of, but we're not something to worry about. I wouldn't be making portfolio decisions based on a risk that the US government bond yield goes 12 percent. Okay. But this is actually good news. See that we're on the topic of retirement for today's podcast for whatever reason. It's actually good news for retirees because a lot of you have more defensive portfolios and therefore you make more of your interest in income from the defensive side, which often includes bonds, private credit, which we'll talk about in a second, and cash accounts, term deposits, all of these things yield more income. It doesn't mean that they're necessarily good because there are a few different things that come into it over the background like inflation, but all else being equal, higher yields with subdued

26:56inflation is actually good for you, which is what we have right now. Yeah, if you were tired four years ago, you were getting less than 1 percent. That's why everyone had to go into venture capital, software companies and work, making money. Yeah. All these other asset class were driven by the fact that you put even more leverage. You can buy it. You could have less and less of your portfolio in growth assets, depending on what asset, what you've accumulated. Well, yeah, that's actually a good point. We're going to talk about shares, what quite unquote equities as the stock market profession likes to call it. It's shares and stocks should just be called shares and stocks, not equities. I was looking with the team, I was looking at the yields that you get from the Australian share market just through the lens of the vast ETF VIS. I'm sure it's the same for A200 and A300 and STW and I've it, I was at 3.7. What, slightly less. I think it's 3.6. You go a little bit of franking, so you might be able to get up to say, say four and a half, quite maybe just say four and a half. You think about that. You say the government, what do they

27:58say on the screen before? It was 5.2. The Australian government is going to take you 5.2. But 10 years, or you can go into the share market for 4.5, including franking. And what you then do is you go through the mathematics and the gymnastics and your mind and you think that's probably less risky than the share market. That means I need to demand growth from my equities more than income. Yeah, so if you just took it on the income lens and you said income for income, bonds winning. Why would I buy shares? You need to get growth. So you need to be confident, therefore, that the growth element is really important. That's by the way, that's how we in the finance profession, that's how we value securities. We value shares based on the bond yield for this very reason. You need to be rewarded for taking the extra risk. This is very fundamental principle of some guru that won some prize from some university many years ago. But anyway, we're going to move on to what's happening in AI? I mean, a lot of CapEx. There was actually,

28:59it was an interesting article that came out that I think it was on barons or something similar. I was looking at a slightly illegitimate website. Over 200, I mean, for Thomas Stakes, where do you go? Over America's 200-D history, I was actually saying that like the beginning, everyone took me the AI CapEx bubble and now it's like overdone. They're actually saying that it's nowhere near previous bubbles. We always look in the past. And to get near 25% of overall economic output before they created real issues. And they're saying that the AI bubble is nowhere near that yet. Not yet anyway, maybe anthropic will on its own, but that's bad. That's news of the world. Gold near for our goodies. Are we in bubble territory? Yes, no. No. Not as a market as some stocks for sure. Like AI stocks? Mainly AI stocks. I think the lower levels of AI stocks. It's really interesting because like the narrative is... Everything's a bubble. Well, it's interesting because people to study the future, smart,

30:01earn people, look at the past. Because we know that history doesn't repeat, but it rhymes. And people at the, looking at the AI complex now, I have that word complex, at the AI complex, what they're looking at in the equity market is they are going, okay, what happened to the other booms of the times gone by? Energy. Rower. They're like tulips. All those are really shit. What's this one going to be any good? So they're like trying to do like, you know, a beat button for that. They're trying to do like a stencil of like the previous markets and then overlay that on AI and be like, there's my answer. I just don't know if fundamentally that's the same type of trade because... They're very different. I think this one... Data sense is kind of makes something tulips don't. And a more immediate productivity game potentially comes from this. The optimist is like, Rower Roads brought us so much productivity. Eventually. Eventually. But the person that laid the Rower Roads didn't benefit from it. It was the next person,

31:01all the next person, right? Maybe that's what happens with AI, I don't know. You know who's positive about AI? Kathy Wood. She's always positive. Flagging here we go. A golden era for equity or share investing. Okay, we'll go shares. A golden era for share investing. For share investing. This sounds remarkably like the golden years. We've got a very marinered over here. Yeah, yeah. I brought a box down here and sweated. So basically, I mean, she's bullish on AI generally. It's basically technology revolution that will accelerate economic growth and potentially even push the United States into deflation. Let's have a look. Elon talks about this all the time. Maybe on the screen in front of you Ben. You've got a... Yeah, I'm surprisingly hugely bullish. Kathy Wood declares golden age for equities after bumpy ride. Has it been bumpy? We've had 20% year on year returns for like three years, four years, five years. Returns have been exceptional. That's another thing, which is why good returns make us more nervous. She's making bolt calls on Tesla, Zoom and Roku for a change. She's pretty bold. I think we said this

32:06last week. Robotics, energy storage, blockchain, life sciences. I mean, you only had to look at Merck and Madonna, which we talked about a couple of weeks ago, where they have that treatment for Maloney where you start in personalized treatments. Personalized drug, cancer treatment. Heafy and the chat said, good start for you guys for the S&P 500 in September. In a mid-term election year, the index has had a correction of between eight and 19% from peak to trough between August and the end of October. That's pretty powerful. Railroad capex bubble in the late 1800s was $10 trillion in today's numbers. Yeah. That's 10 times the economy isn't it? Yeah. We're like at 20% if that. I want you to blink. Just close your eyes for a second. And on the screen here, Ben, we might bring up a stock. Uh-oh. And you have to quickly tell us, I'm going to hide. I'm not wearing glass. I can't see it anyway. Well, I don't know if we can bring this up. Here we go, Ben. Okay. I did like Kathy's quote. 321, what is the stock that is in front

33:09of you now? Drew. Can't we click on you go? Uh-uh, Telstra. What is it? Telstra? Oh, no, it's a hundred and seventy bucks. CBA. CBA. It's in one year, it has fallen 10% or more three times. It's in a kangaroo pattern. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Buddy help. Yeah. What are we going to say about Telstra? No, I was saying she had a really good comment, which is that investors were climbing a wall of worry and everyone's uncomfortable. I could it's actually good that people are uncomfortable in this market, that they're questioning the valuation, maybe not acting on it, but at least questioning it and just assuming things won't constantly go higher, at least professional investors. And those that are looking closely as opposed to everyone thinking they just keep putting money and keep getting 10% no matter what. There is a, um, there is a website I might bring up, um, on the screen for everyone watching and walk it through it if you're listening. Um, there's a website which I always manage to just bloody spell the wrong way. It's indices now. It's court. It's, it's S&P indices. It's pretty easy to spell. No, it's called multiple M U L T P L. I always get it wrong.

34:16Because no, that's one of those two. I don't, I don't know things. Um, the Sheila P E. Yeah, but what I wanted to show you guys, everyone here, I want to show you the earnings growth rate. This is in noninflation, adjacent terms. So to Kathy's point, this screen in front of you actually shows that over the last 12 months, the earnings growth of the United States stock market has been nearly 17%. That's unheard of. I mean, not unheard of on that chart. Yeah. Yeah. You don't see, you had some issues. But not only is it 17%. You can see over the last few years, it's been remarkably stable. Like it's been growing. And I don't know exactly what this is. I don't know if it coincides perfectly with, like, say, the Trump era or administration. But what it does show you is that the growth rates currently being shown in the United States stock market are unbelievable. But if you go back 12 months, everyone's like, always the growth going to come from, you know, this maybe AI is in a bubble, you know, but look at that growth. Like if you could

35:18get still taking up and still 17% profit growth every year, if you could get 17% every year from a stock market, eventually the share prices will go up by 17%. Like it will all round out to that point. But if you take the Australian market as an example, and thanks to Vanguard, VAS for showing us this data on your website, I think you can get it maybe not on the performance section. Maybe it's on the portfolio. Maybe it's documents. So if you go into the fact sheet and a lot of the ETF providers do this, Fed Vanguard makes it easy to find as I just can't find it. So the dividend on this Australian stock market through the lens of VAS, 3.1% as we were talking earlier, it's about 400 bit once you get franking. The earnings growth rate is 3.3%. Yeah. I mean, that's a massive difference. 17% versus 3%. That's why the ASX did like 4% last year compared to the Nasdaq, which did 19, 19. Which is incredible when you think about that, right? Like if that can, like we don't know

36:22if that continues, it could, like some years it's not growing. But why would you have any investment in here? Well, that's, I mean, yeah, that's what some people think. They're like, you as well of the cash. Yes, on the earnings growth flow. So we got low dividend and yield and historical figures, still higher than the US. We've got very much lower earnings growth or profit growth is another way of saying this. And in the US, we've got five times the amount of growth in earnings in profits. This means the PE plays it. Yeah, well, then it becomes what are you paying for those returns in Australia? The private earnings ratio is 21 times. And I think go, go. The problem with all these indices is you look at that top company, top 10 holdings, PHP is worth something like 13% of the index. So if PHP had a cyclical year or they did a write down, I'm one of their major assets or I and all fell 20%. Yeah. Then the earnings growth, the index, 13% of it's gone. Yeah. So it's so influenced by one or two companies and it just happens that in

37:23the US, the biggest companies, they have biggest influence. The ones growing at 30% clips are if you are in video, 106% clips. You can get about 22% of your money if you invest in its try and share market as a whole in CBI and PHP alone. There you go. The thing that's been really interesting about those, about the whole strain share market is no secret. I've been like a very long period of time, probably since the 90s, is we've got two very cyclical industries, which is often a criticism of our market. But it's interesting because both of those two industries, the financials and the materials or resources sector, they tend to counteract each other all the time. Like when one's going up, one's going down, one's going up, down, one's going down. And we saw this recently right, like the bank struggled a little while and then all of a sudden the resources sector is at the end of the whole time. Yeah. It's amazing. But a few years ago, PHP was struggling and CBI was flying. Yeah. So it's a really interesting kind of dichotomy there. But I just think like if you stop and think about what is investing, it's about yeah, you might get some income in the short term, but the long term is fueled by growth of companies. Yeah. We, this is not a new

38:31problem, but we need these companies to keep growing because the only way that Australian share market can keep going higher is if people are willing to pay you more money for it, meaning that the valuation just stretches and stretches and stretches and stretches and stretches and stretches. A common question we get and you probably have this 100 times true is, well, what are you worried about? What is it the Cape ratio? Schiulope. Schiulope, which is basically just a sense for cyclically adjusted PE ratio. Whatever that means. Yeah. It's like over rolling periods. What is the PE ratio? And we can see in the United States, cutting out recessions. It's 29 times is what you pay for those earnings. The previous peak was 2021 at 36. So people say, well, are you worried about the stock market being more expensive as a whole? Yes, but it seems like it keeps getting more expensive. It can get more expensive. And you're not just buying the stock market. I mean, the easiest answer is you're not just hopefully not just buying the stock market. You're buying a lot of different things at the same time. Yeah. True. So golden era, are we backing

39:33testing? Yeah. I mean, there's going to be there's always a crisis. Everyone worries about a sell-off. We've already had a 10 or 15 cents sell this year. We had one last year. They seem to be geopolitically driven or headline driven at the moment. We've still got more ongoing. But there's nothing slowing down tech and data center build out and digitisation. AY on live chat. Is this pre-recorded? No. We are basically robots sent from the future. But now we are live. We're recording from Melbourne today. Is Makas running? Yeah, Makas running something new thing. Anakin has asked a question with the low percentage of growth. Why do so many growth funds have equal overseas in Australian shares? Mix. So there are a few reasons for that. Maybe I'll go first and you go. Yeah. So one obvious behavioural bias is home country bias. So people tend to

40:37invest more in the things that they know. Morgan House will sit in his book. That's because most investors are reasonable. A perfectly rational person would say, there's more growth overseas, just do that. But the behavioural brand kicks in and people just tend to be feel safer investing close to home. The other reason is there's still franking credits and there's good reasons to be optimistic about Australian shares. If I'm going to guess, I'm going to say that 17% earnings growth for the entire US stock market is not sustainable. And the data, like if we bring it up here, suggests that it's a very sometimes that's not positive. Sometimes it falls. When was the last major collapse in earnings? In 2020, this profits of the stock market fell 32% for a good reason. And then it popped back the next year. So you would have to say over the long term notes, maybe 10%. Yeah. Give or take. So it's not every year that this is the case. So some years Australia will look good. Some years as US will look good. Overall though,

41:38it's it, this explains why the United States has done better than Australia. Yeah. And we'll probably continue that way for as long as it's a pro kind of innovation world. Who knows? What do you think? Banking and resource might come into favour again. I mean, there's a free kick for Australian, particularly retirees who are the ones who have a lot of the wealth in Australia. Then you get that franking credit free kick, which makes sense to be more evenly split. And then the longer, like evaluations less concerned because the longer you think about investing, the more time you have to enjoy the benefits or the turnarounds in earnings as well. Yeah. I think on a short term basis, everything looks expensive. Would you buy gold, would you buy crypto, would you buy tech, would you buy the SP, would you buy the everything's at an all-time high? And so I interest rates. No, it's not commercial property. Yeah. Compressor property is still thinking commercial property is falling. Yeah. And uncertainty around it as well. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it's actually quite, I don't know. This is a holding of ours, Drew. Thanks for the question, by the way, Anakin. Great question. So we do have plenty of questions sent in advance. You can send your questions in via rast.com.au slash question.

42:43General advice rules apply as we said earlier. You can't give us any of your personal information. And just you don't need to do that anyway. It's for educational purposes. We hold this this reate, which is the Charter Hall Long-Wale Reate ASX CLW. It has taken a bit of a shellacking. Probably sort of sold it late 2025. But the thing about this is that the the further it falls, the more the yields. And it becomes pretty good. And in a yield starved world, it's yielding 7% according to the overlord that is Google Finance, often wrong, never in doubt Google Finance. And TA is 470 or 471. So the net value of the untouchable Long-Wale Reate, Long-Wale means way to average lease expiry. It owns a very long term lease properties. And the value of those assets net of debt is $4.71. So you're buying it at what a 30% discount at the moment. So it's pretty I think fundamentally reate investing is pretty easy to understand. Rights go up, reate go down. Yeah, interest rates up. Property value should go down. That's the way it's

43:47supposed to happen. It doesn't. But that's why I suppose that. The longer the longer the lease, the more impactful interest rates generally tend to be. Yeah. But the second thing that happens is that the longer the lease, normally, the higher the rents. So a lot of commercial properties like office buildings and factories and that sort of stuff. The longer that that goes on, the lease, I mean, you have inflation linked rents. So it's not like where you have your residential property, maybe you rent an apartment or a house or something like that. And it's just like a negotiation. Like the landlord might say, we're planning to put up the the rents $30 a week. And you kind of don't see that coming when it comes to commercial property back businesses don't tolerate that. They want certainty in the way they get certain to you say, well, it's hypothetically $1,000 this week for 12 months. And then after that, it's going to go up at inflation, which might be 4% say. So it goes up to $1,040 next year. And you kind of accept that.

44:49And if you do a 10 year lease, obviously you know what you're getting as a business or sometimes, I know a lot of the organizations that rent these properties from Charter Hall are actually like governments. Dan Murphy's. Dan Murphy's basically the government. So you got the biggest attack. So basically it's a very kind of defined thing. But the long, this is the key point. The further the share price gets away from the true value of the underlying properties, we call that a discount. The more appealing it can be. And we still hold this. For how long? I don't know. But at a 7.4% yield, and a general view that Australian property is more valuable because of building costs. Yes, the properties might not, like it should be impacted by interest rates. The actual to build those buildings cost more today than it did when they built them. So they're kind of always as a underwriting value. In my opinion, which makes it quite appealing,

45:52do you own anything like this? We own CLW as well. And some global property via ETFs and global infrastructure. Infrastructure is similar, not as influenced by interest rates. But property, it's one of the close, I mean, if you track the bond yield versus CLW, you're going to see a pretty close link, particularly when it spikes up. And sentiment turns like same as owning that property. If you own that Dan Murphy's and you can now get 5%, you're only getting paid 3, it's obviously not as attractive. And you want interest rates to be lower when you're selling it. But when you're pulling out a 7% yield, it's not something that requires urgent action. And if we're right on bond yields peaking, then you're going to get the capital return and the income from this point onwards. Yes, it's quite interesting in today's process. So like GL, the GLIN, it's performed more consistently in addition to income. Yeah, so this is the I Share's core, FTSE Global Infrastructure ETF. Always hedged, of course. So it's been pretty stable. Been pretty stable. Now we do have time for a couple of questions, Drew. If you're happy to go to

46:56that, there was a bit of other news that you might want to just quickly throw out there for us. Anything that was particularly interesting to you. Oh, I just in video again. Like, imagine if in video we were selling more to China, like the numbers would be ridiculous. They're hitting 100 billion sales in a quarter. It's like 18% growth on the previous quarter. But 84% or 100% on the previous year, it's like the it's hard to fathom the level of growth that's occurring. From, you know, I think they were doing 25 million a quarter, now they do a year, now they're doing 100 billion a quarter. It's incredible. It's just insane and hard to how to appreciate. The only other one was we had a half-enormant come out, where I'm capital. So there was a big sell-off in where I'm capital one of the list investment companies, which is one of those risks they cut their dividend, the stock fell by 18% of theirabouts. As a list investment company, they can pay a higher dividend than the dividends they're bringing in. But they said they were running out of, you know, retained profits or frank, whatever it happened to be. So they've almost halved

47:57the dividend going forward as opposed to cutting it slowly and investors are sold off. We have a lot of capital. Yeah. And Marnie Jeff Wilson. Yeah. Jeff, give people what they want. Okay, cool. There was also some interesting news. I noticed this in your notes, actually, Drew, which is corporate travel. Yeah. That just popped up before I walked down here. So no comment. So let's bring it up on the screen if we can. Is it actually trading again? It's trading today down 81%. But it's starting from nowhere. So you can't even see what it started. So I was in it's basically this coming has been a trading halt since August last year, because they couldn't launch. I think it was actually years before. There's no trading history in 2012. Yeah. So yeah, I don't, I feel like this hasn't traded. Oh no, you're right. August 2025 to 26. This is the last time I traded. This is August 22nd, 2025. It wakes up the next morning, IE, September 22nd. There were people with shorts on it that had

48:58to close out their shorts, I think, because it'd been unlisted for so long. So back ground context on this business is important. This is a corporate travel management company that was unable to effectively get its accounts settled. It operates throughout the world. And predominantly was used, I'm saying was as past tense used by big corporates and governments to book accommodation, a book travel and has a platform around that. But it has been absolutely brutal run for shareholders over the past 12 to 18 months. They're worried they're overcharging the UK government or something. Yeah, there was a few, I'm not clear to be struggling to because it was a bit sus to be honest with you. Some of the things that were potentially going on in the UK in particular around things like immigration and that sort of stuff. It seemed like a very weird thing for them to be involved in. But yeah, the share price is back down to three bucks at the time recording, which you would have to go back to 2012 to get that back to it was.

50:04Trying to get 30 bucks at one point. This could be like the great recovery of the United States stock market or something like that. Maybe it comes back. But it did get to a high of over 30 bucks in 2018. So yikes. I haven't actually kept up with it. I used to know the business really really well. But it's not a good one. And hopefully it can actually get some people can get liquidity in there. Yeah, not something that I own for disclosure. No, definitely not. Yeah. Okay, so we've got some time for some quick questions here on the end. There was one question that came through about Term Plus, which is a sponsor of the show, Term Plus.com.au. Brad asked a question about whether there's lots of commentary about private credit on being on the nose. Still confident in that. So actually, I had near my Richardson from Term Plus in the studio just last week, I think it was that episode will be coming out soon. We did go into the technical technical specifics of what actually is happening in the world of private credit. There's a lot of

51:07news around at the moment, particularly in Australian private credit. There is a little bit from the US with Blue Al and all these other ones. But the big one is so wait for that episode to come out. But the big one is here in Australia is there's been some property funds that are probably businesses that have been linked and linked with private credit. So one of the ones is Balfour. Is that the one that I think that's the Bathla. Yeah, that is quite a big builder here in Australia. And that's allegedly or reportedly going into a pretty tough period for that business. And a few private equity funds have been kind of caught out. There's a lot of news about this lately. There's a lot of because Asick's done its investigation into the private credit sector probably every year ago or about a year ago. And it did raise some concerns. And some areas to watch. With respect to Turnplus you can head to turnplus.com.au.au to learn more about the information or even the

52:07Bengarna website to learn more. And of course if you confuse obviously read the PDFs, TMD, and SPT, or Vicer and all that sort of stuff. But there is an episode currently in editing that hopefully will be out soon. There is another question here from Icarus GPT. Watching the slow moving car crash that is massive amounts of debt fueling the AI boom in the US 35% of the S&P's rely on this boom allegedly. And the US is hitting $40 trillion of debt. In light of this, what should an average investor do to limit downsides given how intertwined our superannuation and most ETFs are with this broader economic situation. Oh, as we talked about, we've got even the humble electrician is now benefiting from this AI boom. It is a real boom right around the world. Is it transient in some respects? Probably because you've got to build the data centers and then it's maintenance after that. What do you think? In terms of, I think if you're not going into this

53:13question, yeah, are we booming? If you were relying on say one or two ETFs, three ETFs, like broad-based, complete index funds that are completely exposed to this and you had a shorter time frame or you needed to draw more income from it during retirement, I would be ensuring I was more diversified across income and great sources. If you're still investing for 30 or 40 years, what happens with the US debt in the next 12 months isn't going to have a long-term impact on 30 years from now. And the other part is it's easy to get caught up and read the articles that confirm all these risks, but in the economy is a lot of moving parts, whether you should actually double down and put all your... Taking money away from the companies earning 70% per annum in profit growth and towards something that will benefit from a specific event occurring is, I think that's more risk than doing, maybe not doing nothing, but remaining overly exposed. It's probably a good point because something that you've always impressed upon me and everyone on

54:14the show is that you don't prepare for a given future, you just be prepared for any. For many, yeah. And if you think about the AI boom going on at the moment, what happens if you're not exposed to it as you were saying? So you go, okay, the US is caught. I'm going to get out of there and put all my money into the Australian market and then we come on the podcast and say, yeah, but earning growth is 3%. So then what do you do? You go, well, I don't know. Maybe I put it in a term to go. Get a goal or a term to posit. And then you go into term posit and you're like, oh, actually inflation's most of this and I get taxed and I go backwards. So how long can you stay there? So even the thing that we would traditionally say is the least amount of risk can still be risky in a purchasing power sense. It can be risk of how long you keep that cash in there. There's so many elements to this and the very nature of investing is that you take known and unknown risk, but predominantly you want to be in a camp of known risk. There are things that we don't know about how the AI bubble ends up, but it's just in a simple terms.

55:17It's a growing part of the economy. It seems to be very much real because people use it, businesses are adopting it faster than ever. It is a genuine product and service, not like the dot-com boom. So there is a risk of not having it in there. This is a simple, a simple answer to have quite a complex question or topic, which is diversify. Yeah, diversify, diversify, diversify. I would say speak to your advisor. Okay, we've probably got a time for one more question, probably from one to be whale. Is an emergency fund necessary when you have access to your super? True. I still think an emergency fund is relevant because it helps you be calm during periods of stress. Like if the market starts to fall 20%. What really matters is whether you have enough cash in your bank account to spend on your to fund your lifestyle. It could be three months, could be six months, could be 12 months. But in my experience, there's a certain amount that you should have and different names for it. I call it like a retirement number that there's a portfolio, there's the cash within the portfolio, then there's the actual cash that's there for you to spend.

56:20If you get that number right and it could be nothing for some people, it could be like 50 grand for some people. But if that is at the wrong level, you're more concerned about what's happening in markets. You're more emotionally invested. You don't want to be naturally, don't want to be selling things and you're more likely to spend less because the market's falling. So having that, I think a merge fund is more relevant than ever in Super. Do you have a journey when you've applied with clients? I think it's a tiny minimum three months or so. Minimum, but everyone's different. We're working with retirees. A lot of historically, their parents were depression era. So they want to have another retirement mistake. Don't be born then. Don't want to miss it. But they would squirrel away money. They'd save on everything and they struggle to spend. For them, they tend to need more in that cash to know that they feel safe. For the more, you know, the 50 and 60-year-olds can be significantly less. They're comfortable. They've seen the benefits of compounding in superannuation. They know it's going to continue over a long period of time. But minimum usually three months or so in retirement. And then

57:25having a constant quarterly rebalance of that as you need to. But then you still have the diversified portfolio over the back of the field. Yeah, fully invested in that bucket. It ensures the rest of it can be fully invested across everything and just having this as a backup. See, I'm going to throw a bit of my personal preference in here. I'd probably want more than three months. Yeah. That's the minimum three. I probably want more like six months or four months. Assuming that I'm not working because I've turned off the tap of income from my job. So I just feel more comfortable. And I think that's why it's so personal. Yeah, yeah. And I think that like, that's a really good point you make about up to a certain point. You don't have too much cash, of course. But up to a certain point, the more that you're having cash, the less you worry about your portfolio. Which avoid you making stupid mistakes, frankly. So that's really cool. Final question, actually, we've just got a quick one from AY in the chat. Do you guys ever consider alternative investments like private credit or you just keep chucking money into ETFs? That's more good. I can answer this one real quick. We do have private credit exposure in our portfolios, but it's through a listed vehicle. So remember that ETFs are on the stock exchange, which means you can buy and sell

58:27them. So this is not personal advice, obviously, but the way I think about it is I like the attractiveness of private credit and the income returns. But I also like to be able to buy and sell. So that's how we approach it. But everyone's different. Some people don't need that ability. Do you have private credit? We've got private equity and a little bit of private overseas credit. Yeah, I've got, yeah, it's global. I think it's not an age to their own too. Like if you're comfortable with the risk and volatility that comes with public market exposure, bonds, shares, equities, you don't feel like you want to pay because alternative is more expensive than public market exposure. You pay over 1% for alternatives and you pay 0.03 for a public market exposure. So if that's something of concern, fees or looking for less correlated source return, yeah, then we do. Cool. There was a bit of feedback on the podcast this past little while, which is that I wouldn't need to smile more. Me too. And Drew needs to stop laughing.

59:30Sorry, Ben. But we do really appreciate your time. If you did send us a question in this week in advance, rest.com.com.au slash question. Let us know right into us again, give us your post to address because we will send you a copy of Drew's book, The Golden Era. What was it? The golden. The golden years. The golden years. Those are the ones 400 of them out of front. The golden years. And now Drew's going to send a copy right infringement notice to Kathy Wood in New York. Because of the golden era remark. But this is golden years. We'll send you a copy of that. If you've already got a copy of that book because you love it so much, you can give this one to your friend or get another one. We'll send you one of Jim's maybe like the money reset or something like that. Now do you have a dead joke for us? Yeah, can a frog jump higher than a house? No, of course a house can't jump. That's a bad man. I don't mind that at all. I think I'm very memorable. Give me a few brain cells. So don't forget, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us live.

1:00:35You can send your questions to rest.com.au slash question. You can join us in the RAS community. Check out the new RAS platform, of course. And you can find Drew at waterpartners.com.au or his residential address is just kidding. But great to have you with us. We're live every Thursday at midday for the Australian Investors podcast or Saturday morning at 7am on your favorite podcast player. So once again, subscribe, share it with a friend. We'd love that and very much appreciate your time. Drew, thanks for joining us. Good to see you. Thanks for tuning into this RAS podcast. As a reminder, this episode contained general financial information only. It's not personalized financial advice like you get from a financial planner. So don't act on the information until you're spoken to one. And if we've mentioned things like financial products, they come with something called a product disclosure statement or PDS and a target market determination or TMD for short. These documents are essential to read and understand before you acquire or dispose of that financial product. You'll find our full disclaimer, a link to our financial services guide and a range of free education by following

1:01:38the links that are available in your show notes. Thanks for tuning in to this RAS podcast. Don't forget to share this episode with a friend or family member that we can help.