181. I Kept Asking 400 Times… Here’s Why

Welcome to OCD Whisperer Podcast. A podcast before we talk about anxiety, OCD, and mental health.

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Today with me, I have Liam and Alicia from OCD Confessionals. Welcome to the show.

Thanks for having us. This is so fun. Thanks for having us, Christina.

Absolutely. So I would love to hear just a little bit and for the audience to hear a little bit

about you too. And yeah, a little bit of your story kind of how how did this all come about?

Anything you want to share with us?

Yeah, so I'm actually in Boston and Alicia is in California. And as of about a year ago,

we had never met each other. And what happened is we both ended up in South America together

for work. Alicia was there as an influencer and I was there working for this company that

we do digital marketing for. And Alicia and I were at a dinner. We were both sitting there with

our our spouses and just talking about life and being parents. And then it veered into the mental

health conversation. Alicia and I are very fast. Yeah, classic oversharing. I find your people

he's going to be quick. Yes. Really on your line. So you also knocked seven times before you

get in the car. Cool. Exactly. Alicia was telling me about some of her mental health struggles. And

internally, I was thinking to myself, I think this woman has OCD and doesn't know it.

And I eventually just was like, you know what, I'm just going to say that to her, like you might

want to consider that this is a thing. And that led to this whole journey for both Alicia and me

where she was able to learn. In fact, that she does have OCD and then we became close friends and kind

of, you know, sharing each other's, you know, journeys with it. And then flash forward a few months,

I was at a conference with the IOCDF. It was actually a dinner. And I was talking to this one

woman across from me about her experience with OCD. We're sharing it. We're both laughing really

hard about some of the crazy stuff we've done. And I just had this moment of like this would actually

make a great podcast. People just sharing their crazy things, their compulsions and obsessions.

And I texted Alicia the next day and was like, do you want to do a podcast with me where we just

like confess our crazy shit and laugh about it and have other people share their stories? And

Alicia, what was your reaction? Well, at first I thought, do I want to share the weird shit

to do? And then, you know, I know the power and vulnerability. And I was in a place in my life

where it felt, it felt right. The timing was perfect. And I was like, absolutely, let's do this.

Because he and I had always had this really sweet banter with how we joke and our dark humor

really connected on where we were able to find the humor in the stuff that we did. And I thought,

you know, we should open that up. He's right, this would be a great, a great way to

create a platform where people can share their stories. And we can make fun of ourselves. And so

that's what we did. And it's been so fun and so healing in so many ways. And I'm grateful for

that night where he saw my OCD. Clearly, it was very evident that no one else saw my entire

life. No one else pointed out that maybe you have OCD. So I'm grateful. That's fun.

Hi, I'm Christina Arlova, host of the OCD Whisperer podcast. As someone who lives with OCD,

I understand the struggles firsthand. If you're here, you're not alone. Before we start,

grab your free OCD survival kit at www.coreresults.com to help you take control. That's k-o-r-results.com.

Now let's dive into today's episode.

Well, that says a lot to you, though, because to be honest, a lot of a lot of times when we talk

about this, it's always so serious. Yeah. But I think, you know, yes, there's a serious side,

but to your point, I really enjoy your podcast because of that, because you do bring some likeness,

because sometimes we have those moments, right? Well, when you reflect back on yourself, you're like,

what the heck? Yeah. You know, and it's just a little kind of wild. Well, it's only serious when

you are living in isolation, right? It's very serious because you think that you're the only one

doing all this stuff, and you're the weirdo, and you're the one hiding, and you're, you know,

you're masking this. And then when you meet someone who's also doing it, then and laughing together,

you're like, oh, well, this is actually not as weird as I thought. There's a name for how I'm

feeling. There's a name for this stuff. And you instantly have this bond that, yeah, you can,

you can find the humor easily in that. So the number of times we've been in tears on the podcast

when I guess share something that they've done, or Alicia, or I is sharing something that we've

done, I mean, there was the one guy, Zach, Alicia, who shared this story where he developed schizophrenia,

OCD, he thought he might have schizophrenia, and he believed that he had, that he had imagined

Charles Darwin walking through a library. And he was like, I mean, I've got to figure

though, I've, I've had the same experience, you know, and it wasn't until you shared where you

almost go, oh my gosh, I've done that too with things, the magical thinking, all of it comes back

and you're like, oh, wow, this all makes so much sense. That was a really, that was a really

funny one. Yeah, I know exactly who you're talking about. I had him on the show too,

exact. I mean, you're right, like there are moments where when you in hindsight, it's a little

ludicrous, but also I think it does. It touches on that deeper part when you realize, gosh,

me too though, or oh, wow, I did that thing. I didn't realize that's what it was.

Well, with that, I want to, I want to ask you both a question for both of you to answer from

your perspective, which is, you know, now that you guys are in your own show and you're open and

about it, like how, how does this show up and your families and with your loved ones? Because I

think we all know this doesn't just impact like me, the individual, this impacts my partner,

my family, and people, you know, around me. So yeah, if I can hear a little bit about how

that's been for you, for each of you. Well, for, yeah, sure, for us, you know, it was always this

mysterious, underlining, like I struggled with severe anxiety and depression in my marriage,

and with zero answers, you know, seeking help and nobody ever bringing OCD to the table and

understanding what exactly it was. Why was I having these intrusive thoughts that, you know,

I led to burn, I was burnt out from it. And so I would go and hiding for days at a time. And it

does affect your, I have two kids, 12 and nine. And, you know, you have to show up. And for me,

I wasn't, I wasn't, I was not showing up in the way that I knew I should be. And so

for, you know, I went down the health journey for a long time and I was thinking, gosh, you know,

what is contributing to the severe anxiety and depression? Why am I thinking these awful things

when I go into the kitchen and hold a knife and I'm going to stab my cat? Like, what is happening to me?

And, you know, my husband blesses heart. He's such an amazing supportive partner,

but he was also just kind of like feeling defeated. What can I do? What needs to be different?

You know, I live a beautiful life in the sunny California and I, I'm working my dream job,

but it always felt like this cloud was following me and I could not escape it and it got so, so dark

for a long time. And quite honestly, I battled it pretty bad until I met Liam. And so since finding out

that I have OCD, it has been the biggest blessing in so many ways, understanding why I am the way

that I am, you know, having tools to help prevent those spirals, seeking therapy now for the correct

diagnosis has been truly life changing and I think it's really helped and I educate my kids

on what OCD is. I tell them why I do the things that I'm doing. What's happening? I haven't had

a depression episode since. I mean, that's huge. I would, I would almost expect them monthly to be

like, okay, here we go. Here's what's happening. I would get my OCDs really loud, not knowing it's

OCD and then go into these spunks, turn down every social, anything that brings me any amount of

joy. And it was like, you know, these, these episodes that I would have and I don't, I don't have

them anymore because I'm getting the proper help. And yeah, I mean, now I think it's really open

in my house. It's really talked about, you know, and we can educate each other and my husband now

understands more of maybe why I say the things I say or why I'm needing, you know, his reassurance.

You know, I'm not perfect. I'm still, I still have my things. And so when my relationship OCD comes

up, he's now equipped with how to respond and what to do as a partner and a supportive partner when

that comes up when before he would be, come on, this again, we're going down the short again,

and it would strain a really healthy relationship. We love each other dearly, but when you are, when

you are, you know, in a relationship and one is struggling immensely and the other is living

their happy life, it is going to cause some conflict. Whether you like it or not, love is not

enough sometimes. And for us, it was always this gosh, what is, what do we do? What more? You know,

and he would always say, what more do you need? And I'm like, you don't understand it. You don't

get it. You're not in my head. I don't know how to explain this to you. Again, before I had OCD,

I was like, it's really loud. And I told him, I was like, I just need the noise to go away. And I would,

you know, I would try to vocalize that, but unless you have it, you just truly don't understand how

really tough it is. So we're in a good place now. And that is all because of again, just knowing

exactly what it is and what's going on. So, well, I think you put it in the context. Yeah, but I

think you said something really important there, right? Because when you don't even know what it is,

you don't even know how to talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. I don't even know how to explain this to you.

I just know that there's this, this intensity going on inside. And it's like this revving up,

and then all this stuff is twirling. And I feel crazy. Yeah, I feel crazy. It's such a common thing

I hear from so many people. And just I don't even know what this is. I don't know how to explain it

to you, but just can you tell me again, can you tell me again, an absolute it wears and tears and

relationships are to break down because I have this beautiful human who is so supportive and loving

and loves me for all the things. And I am just bringing us down, you know, and you're like, gosh,

at some point he's going to end this. Why would he do this to himself? I'm the one that's struggling.

You know, like that, at some point, he's going to go enough enough. And so I lived with that, you know,

so yeah, well, I'm glad that you figured that out. I mean, honestly, I think it just speaks to

how long the journey can be, right? Like it really does take time. And the truth is, like,

I don't want to lie. I mean, like I treat OCD, right? And this is something I hear really

commonly from couples too, or the other side of it, right? Like I maybe like, I love my partner,

but man, I'm exhausted. Like, or I'm actually I have resentment or like, you look, I have some

built up anger and frustration. Like, that's right. So yeah, right? Like they're, you know,

you're pulling them away from from their best self. Yeah, they're exhausted trying to figure out

what's going on with you and the relationship becomes about the relationship. And at some point,

it's like, is this, is this what it's about? What, what's got to give here? You know, and I went down

the road of, of gosh, it's a whole other topic, but the whole health obsession took over because I

thought that was the answer. So of course, because our little brain loves to move on and latch on

to other new little topics. But I'm just so glad to hear that you, you guys sounds like have

better understanding support. And at least now, there can be some levity in their relationship. And

and I mean, yeah, that's, that's awesome. They're goals. And we're on a path. When before, you know,

you're just going in circles, chasing your tail going, what the hell is happening? And so, yeah,

there's clarity there, which is really, really nice. Amazing. All right, Liam, your turn.

Yeah, my journey was a little different. So just a little bit of background, I had spent 15 years

doing television news. And the last three of them, I was on the morning schedule. So doing the

morning show for the CBS station in Boston. And for that, I was up at 2 30 in the morning,

five days a week and about a year into it, I had this major mental health crisis where I was just

depressed all the time, crazy intrusive thoughts, my compulsions were getting really out of control.

And I didn't know what was going on with me. I at that point in my life still had not been

diagnosed with OCD. It had not been identified that that might be what was going on. And I just

figured this is the sleep deprivation doing its thing, which to some extent was true. And so

about a year more of that, I kept it private, quiet, didn't tell anyone, wasn't even really

being fully honest with myself, but certainly wasn't telling my wife what was going on. I was

trying to hide it from everyone. And finally, I just had this breaking point where I was in such a

state. I was like sneaking away into closets to cry by myself and was just so, so sad and in

such a dark place. That finally, but all right, I'm going to open up to my wife and I did. And that

started us on a path of figuring out what was going on. At first, my wife is a clinical psychologist.

So she has, of course, a lot of background in this. And she thought, maybe this is generalized

anxiety disorder. Maybe you've got depression. We were trying to figure it out. I was going to

therapy. That person didn't identify it. And finally, we had this one night where we're lying in

bed together. And then God, we have a very open relationship at this point where I was able to

communicate with her. Okay, here's what's happening in my mind right now. And she finally noticed

all this checking stuff that I was doing. And then she started to dig into that. Okay, so what's

actually happening in your mind when you're doing that? And then I started opening up about

light switches. And yeah, I can only use blue paint. And if I use black pen, people are going to

die and start telling her about the prayers that I was doing. And she was like, OCD. And that was,

I was, you know, 38 or something, which is a very familiar story with people with OCD where they're

not diagnosed until much later in life or the misdiagnosed or they can't get access to treatment.

Fortunately, that wasn't the case for me. I was able to get treatment to figure it out. I'm now in

ERP. And that has really, I would say, strengthened our relationship because for a long time, there was

similar with Alicia and Spence. There was this question of like, what is going on with you?

Why do you need to keep asking me this question for a hundred times? And now that we both understand

the mechanics of it and that I'm getting help so that the symptoms aren't as strong, it's just

really made us that much stronger as as a couple. And she is working behind me right now. So it's

a little awkward that she can hear all this. But yeah, I mean, thank you for sharing all that.

First of all, when you said that, I'm like, it's pretty incredible when you have a partner that

actually understands and knows the field and helps you figure that out. I mean, that's pretty

unique. But to your point, like, yeah, we don't share this stuff and can go on and on for so many

years without knowing. Yeah. Oh, I definitely was victim to that, that male mentality of, I'm going

to figure this out on my own. I'm not going to show anyone any weakness. Like I said, I would,

I would sneak away to cry. I didn't want anyone to know I was crying. You know, it's that stupid

stuff that now I recognize is not helpful to anyone. Well, yeah, I mean, I think that's kind

of the stuff. Like whether you're told that out, like, out right or whether you just learn that

from the world of society, like what is a guy supposed to do or be like or what you're supposed to

hold or not hold or share or, you know, and even about mental health, right? Like, oh, a lot of

people I hear stuff like I don't want to share this stuff because I'm going to see them like I'm

crazy. That's just such a common statement that I hear. There's so much, you know, fear and stigma

around that, right? And it's like, yeah, but, but stuff is going on. Yeah, you're not okay.

Right? So like, at what point do you, like, how far do you have to go to have that breaking point

to finally say, okay, like, I got to talk to somebody. Put your ego aside and like, this needs help.

I need help. Yeah. Exactly. Well, the irony is that in not, sorry, the irony is that in not

seeking that help, you're actually much weaker, right? The whole point is that you're trying to

be strong and not show weakness, but by not getting the help and being honest about what's going on,

you make yourself much worse and therefore weaker and more of a burden to the people around you,

all of that. So like, okay, I want to know a little bit more if we can dig in like in terms of

your family systems. You have kids Liam? Yes, too. 11 and 8. Yeah, that's amazing. And so like,

being both of you, right, like having a family and having kids, I know like Alicia, you said that

now in the family, things are more open. And you're, you're saying like for you, that really kind

of like, lift it stuff normalized it, right? Like, like, so for you with kids, I'm just curious,

what does that sound like if you're having that conversation, right? Because I think a lot of people

sometimes don't know, do I approach this? What do I say? Do I not say how much do I share?

Well, okay, there's a couple examples I can give you. One of them would just happen last night,

my, my older son, he's very, very smart and he's always asking me questions about mental health

stuff. He has some ADHD and anxiety. So naturally, I think that he can relate and he wants to know,

you know, why he does certain things in impulse, civility and all the things. So he's the one that's

a little bit more curious, but he was, he was playing with the drawer and there was a piece of

something sticking out of the drawer and he was playing with it with his foot and he said,

mom, is this OCD? And I was like, well, let's, let's dive into that. So we sat down and I asked him,

I said, what's going on in your head when you do that? He goes, well, it bothers me that it sticks

out. I said, man, that's the thing that comes probably not. But if more thoughts come into your

head that, you know, whatever. So we definitely, we definitely explore that. And I think because I talk

about it, he's like, curious if it, he also has it. And wait, let me go back. One, one thing that came

up that was really intense for me and experience with my OCD was a Halloween. He went out with his

friends for the first time without me. And that was very triggering. I was spiraling. I remember,

do you remember this lamb where I was like, I was freaking out thinking everything was going to happen

to him. And I was calling him and calling him and calling him. And he finally said, mom, this is your

OCD. I am safe. Please don't call me again. And I was like, you're right. Have fun. I'm not going to

call you again. It's a little moments like that are so important because this poor child is thinking,

why is my mom like, what am I doing wrong? Mom, why are you calling? You know, and I don't want him

to carry that responsibility. I don't. And he fell victim to my OCD compulsion, which is calling,

calling, checking, checking. I even called his friend who he was with because he didn't hear his

watch. It was, it was just a lot. And he finally, like, was able to express to me because he knew,

mom, I'm okay, please go home, enjoy your night. And I was like, wow, you are right. Okay. And

that's, that is huge to be educated at 12 years old on why your mom is doing something that,

you know, it was a lot. That's a lot. And when I look back, I think gosh,

before I knew it was OCD, before he knew, you know, how would that have gone otherwise?

I probably would have gone and picked him up. And then like, you know, just, I'm not ready yet,

get in the car. And think about, I mean, he wouldn't have known otherwise. He would have been like,

okay, why are you taking me for my friend's house? This is weird, but I'll get in. Yeah, totally.

You know, so I don't know if that answered the question on how these conversations come up,

but that is one example of, yeah, we just talk about it and what it is. And I'm learning with him.

Well, I love that because you're normalizing it. And like you said, instead of, because kids,

you know, kids interpret stuff, however they interpret it in their kid brain, right? So easily,

they can personalize it or they can look at it like my mom's just weird. But this at least gives

you both a language and a way to understand. And how, I mean, how beautiful and helpful is that

when you're having a moment in your kids, like, my, I love you. This is your OCD. And you can be,

okay, yeah, I got to thank you. Thank you for that. Okay. Bye-bye. Yeah.

He did, he did that. They actually, yeah, it just thought of another thing where he was going on

his bike. And I was, I was, again, a million questions, thinking of all the scenarios. And he

paused. He goes, Mom, is this more about me or you right now? I was like, wow, you're right.

You're doing everything right. This is me and my fears. Go ahead. Have fun. I'll see you,

you know, and it is the hardest thing ever to let him go and do all the things because I

imagine him getting hit by a car five seconds later. So, yeah, I think it's really important that he

knows and he's aware and, and he can, he can step up. He can tell me. No, it sounds like an

impressive kiddo at 12. Okay. I can communicate with him, right? That's awesome. That's great to

share all that, you know, it's, it's who I am right now. And it's, I think it's important

to know where those things come from. Well, yeah, not make it taboo. And I think that's the best

thing we as humans can do. Period, especially in family and with kids is not make difficult things

sound like there's something that's off topic, make it normal, make it, make it something that's

casual that we can talk about. Any and all things that bring it to the table because, you know,

if he were to come up, if OCD were to hit him at 17 or 20 and he's now well equipped and well

educated on what that is, what to look for, how to manage it, you know, and, and I don't want

it to surprise him later in life. Yeah. That'd be fine if you tell them to put his plate in the

sink and he's like, Mom, that's your OCD. Oh, that's messed up. We're going to wait till he's a

teenager to pull one of those. Yeah, I'm sure it's coming. I'm excited my way for sure. That's

funny. Well, Liam, your turn. What about you with your, with your kiddos? What do you guys do?

Yeah, I think it's actually made me a better parent in some ways. So every kid, whether they have

OCD or not, is going to experience anxiety. And the way you would approach helping your kid manage

that is similar to the way you would approach helping them handle OCD. So, Alicia and I had Ellie

Liebowitz on the art show a couple of months ago. And of course, he's the one who developed space,

which is this model for parenting children with OCD and anxiety disorders. So my son right now is,

you know, very normally struggling with going to sleep at night and being in the dark. And my wife

and I will put him to bed and, you know, the lights go off. And every single night, he's like,

I want you to sit in the room until I fall asleep. And for a while, I was doing that. And then it was

sometime after we had Ellie Liebowitz on, I was like, no, I think I'm just going to let you sit in

here. And it's okay. And I try to give him confidence around it, express my confidence that he's

going to be fine. And he can get through it. And he gets really upset sometimes. And, you know, we'll

say that he's really angry with us or whatever. But with each night, I think it does get a little

easier for him. And he starts to see, okay, I really can do this. And mom and dad are modeling their

confidence in me that I can do this. So, and my wife had been doing that all along, of course,

because she's a clinical psychologist, but I would sit in the room. And now I'm like, I should

never have been sitting in the room. We had the same experience around sleep training where

there's a very funny episode of modern family where the gay couple, I forget their names,

Cameron and whatever, are sleep training their baby, Lily. And one of the, one of the couple is

totally fine with it and just ruthless about putting the baby down and leaving the room. And

the other one is like hugging the pillow and crying into it. And I was the one hugging the pillow

and crying into it. My wife was like, no, this is good. This is what the baby needs. The baby

needs sleep. We need sleep. It's all going to be good. She will be fine. And I was an absolute wreck.

And now I look back on, and I'm like, yeah, you're modeling confidence that they can do it. You're

giving them compassion, you know, understanding that it can be difficult for them. And that

sometimes their fight or flight is kicked off by it. It's not an easy experience, but that you

can get through it. And you're teaching your kid to sit with discomfort and to be okay with

discomfort, which for someone with OCD, learning that is everything. That's the whole game is

learning how to sit with that discomfort and the uncertainty of it. And so to be able to give

that to your kids at a young age, I mean, if I could go back and tell my eight-year-old self,

hey, you have OCD, go find a book about what that means. Ask your parents to get a therapist.

That'd be the first thing I'd tell my eight-year-old self. Like, dude, look up OCD.

Yeah. Do your kids know you have OCD, Liam?

Yes, they do know I have OCD. We haven't talked a whole lot about it, but they know I have it,

and they know generally what it is. Yeah, I mean, how do you hide it when you're standing at the

lights for 15 minutes? You're like, Daddy, just really likes it here.

This is a new hobby. Where are the lights flipping on and off and here so often?

Don't worry about it, son, go outside. Daddy's like party time, hey.

That's a strobe light. Oh, man. Thank you for sharing that, though. I mean, I think that's true

for a lot of us, right? We look back and hide and say, like, so many things would be different

if we had that. But I think that's beautiful. Yeah, space is a great program, also, and I think it's

it's true to your point. Like, there's so it's hard, right? Because it pulls on your heartstrings

to like, oh, I have to leave you and you look like you're in distress and everything in you is to

protect. And yet, that's that's the piece to learn is like, I'm actually not protecting you.

I'm teaching you that you can't handle it. Instead of the opposite.

Well, thank you both so much for coming on the show. I really appreciate you both opening up.

And so if folks would like to find you, how can they find you?

I always thought, Liam, Liam, you're better at speaking. You speak.

We're on Instagram and TikTok. You don't know that by now, Liam.

But I just lean on you for all of it. I told Christina when she asked if we wanted to do this

together, I was like, no, he's my support blanket. I mean him.

I got to put on some pounds then if I'm going to be like a teddy bear.

We're my weighted blanket.

We are at the OCD confessional on Instagram and TikTok and then we are on every podcast platform

you might use to just search OCD confessional.

Love it. Thank you so much, Christina, for having us.

Thank you.

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