189 Steve Singer worked for 30 Rock for 40 years, but his favorite were working for Late Night from 86-93

Hi, this is Chris Harris and you are watching The Letterman Podcast.

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It's good time to be a Letterman fan with all the stuff that's going on out there.

It's nice to think back to when late night was a little bit different.

Certainly far less serious and, and more entertaining.

And, that's the sweet spot of the productions of David Letterman and company.

Now, hey, for those who like people who worked for the original, the OG, the late night guys, we got one.

Steve Singer was the audio guy for the audio mixer.

He was in the booth, the guy in the booth from 86 all the way until they left in 93.

He says himself of his multi-decade career with NBC working in 30 Rock, the Mecca, which he loved and was grateful for every minute of it.

The funnest time that he had in his career was working for late night with David Letterman.

Steve's a great guy.

It's just fun to get to know him, ask him about the job and what his experience was like.

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But you're not here to listen to me. Blather on. You are here to celebrate the greatest body of broadcast work in history.

That of David Letterman and company. Please enjoy my conversation with audio guy, Steve Singer.

Steve, I can't thank you enough for coming on here to talk about the career that you have had.

You just retired not that long ago. How long did you retire?

I was at NBC for 45 years as an audio engineer.

You were at NBC for 45 years and you cut out just for a second there. When did you actually retire?

The end of 2024. The last couple of days of 2024.

I mean, the ridiculous, the obvious question to start with is my observation even is my word, the changes that you have seen in broadcasting during your tenure in that career.

My okay, so the changes you have seen, where did you start and how did you start in broadcasting?

Well, before before I was at NBC, I worked in radio at a couple of radio stations around Long Island, which is where I live.

Yeah.

And back in 1980 when the network was planning to send their employees overseas to Moscow to cover the 1980 Olympics,

they hired a large number of temporary employees.

And I was one of those employees. As it turns out, if you'll remember, the US boycott of the Olympics and it turned out to be a bust.

But I was lucky enough that I managed to stay with them for all those years.

The optics of what you just said is very, very interesting to me.

The Soviet Union is hosting the Olympics, so we're going to hire a whole bunch of people.

It sounds like they're hiring a bunch of expendable people to send over to the Soviet Union.

Well, no, what it was is they sent over the established staff people creating a lot of vacancies in New York for the temporary employees.

You had to hold down the board.

That's what I was.

I had very, very little experience and honestly, I don't know how they came up with hiring me, but they did.

Okay, so here we go.

Some experience in radio.

And suddenly, you're going to the Mecca.

You're going to 30 Rock. You're going to the RCA building.

Like I assume that wasn't lost on you, even if it was going to be a temporary thing.

It was a temporary thing.

And I managed to learn a lot by meeting a lot of the older, more experienced people and relied on them to show me the ropes.

And I really developed an interest in it.

What was the major difference between what you had learned up to that point in broadcasting and then moving into the big time television at that point?

What was the biggest learning curve for you?

My broadcasting was almost nonexistent.

I mean, a couple of small radio stations in the area.

But like you said, this was this was the big time.

It was being a 30 rock.

And I get to you know, walk around the building and seeing these studios that I was.

So 1980.

30 Rock lots of transition happening in the United States.

You get this job.

Where did you end up?

What what what shows in 1980 when you when you were learning the ropes of this thing?

Were you a jack of all trades from show?

Yes, I was.

Every day was something different.

I started as being the audio department, but be being an audio assistant setting up microphones and doing things on the floor.

Which again, I learned on the fly and learned from the guys who were there before me.

They were nice enough to show me show me the ropes.

And at that time in 1980, I mean, you got guys who worked on Johnny Carson's tonight show when he was there.

There were guys that were around for the Kennedy assassination.

They would sometimes talk about it as well as Jack par and Johnny Carson.

Sure.

Wow.

And news.

I assume news is a big one for you.

Mostly news because most of the events, the broadcast from 30 rock were news.

There were a handful of entertainment shows, but primarily news.

So that's where my background started in news broadcast.

We were making sense and make sense and ever work on SNL at all.

Only in an ancillary position if they needed a hand for one special segment or something.

Very rarely.

They were pretty much self contained.

They hired their own people and they had their own list.

So very very rarely.

What was the buzz like around 30 rock at that point.

I mean, you know,

just with the perspective of all these years now in between,

you go back and you think,

what were the things that people were excited about

talking about, what was the vibe like there?

I mean, New York was a very, very different city in 1980

than it is now.

And just surviving, you know, you think about Frank's song,

if I can make it there, I can make it anywhere.

That was a very unique time in New York

with that overlay of phrasing.

Like, was it difficult for you to make it in New York

or is it something where always a New Yorker

and just, you know, the punches?

Oh, cut out again.

I was certainly familiar with 30 Rocks.

We used to speak into the building when I was in college.

You know, security was different to non-existent back then.

You know, you'd wave to the guy and he'd let you in.

But I was in the building many times

before I started working there.

Yeah.

Did you fell in love with it, obviously?

I did.

Yeah. I did.

I really did.

I knew that I wanted to do something in this business.

I didn't necessarily know what had the road gone one way.

I would have done something else

or if it went the other way I would have done something else.

But I knew like back in high school

that I wanted to do something in this business,

be a part of it somehow.

Oh, that's fantastic.

The fact that it was technical and audio

just the road just happened to lead that way.

But as far as an industry,

I knew that I wanted to do something in there from way back.

I gotcha.

I feel you.

So as you were, I just, I've got some notes here.

Your first credit on the show was April 8th, 86.

That was your first credit on the late night

that we could find programs.

So between when you started there

and you worked at late night,

was it, was it an interesting transition

to get you to late night or was,

because obviously Letterman was going since 82.

And so there must have been a tremendous amount of buzz

in the building about this show

that has just started to get all this steam and take off.

I was working across the hall in 6B.

I was mixing live at five.

No kidding.

Which at the time it was the biggest show, right?

And it was a huge show at the time.

So you got bothered by late night as the next door neighbor.

They would prank live at five all the time.

You were one of the people, the recipients of those pranks.

Yeah.

What would happen is my audio booth door

overlooked the hallway in 6A.

And I would keep the door open

and I'd be mixing like this,

you know, like looking out the hall

to see, you know, the animals and the clowns

and all the hoopla that was out in the hall.

And I said, gee, that looks, that looks great.

Oh, I did that for a while.

Were you ever in the booth

when they would come and interrupt the show and prank the show?

There was.

I was doing live at five.

The day Dave came across the hall

and interrupted Al Roker doing the weather.

That was preset because we had to set up some stuff for it.

But yes, I was there.

I did that one.

Yeah.

I appreciate you talking about it being preset

because there were so many moments on late night

where the thing that I loved about late night so much

is that they would blur the lines as to,

is this real or is this not real?

And I think a great example of that

is certainly when they would go over

and start messing with you guys at live at five,

you, it looked so spontaneous.

And each spot you guys would do, you know,

the audience was thinking, this is,

this is spur of the moment and random.

But mostly it was predetermined

and it was, it was, it was something

where you guys had a heads up on, wasn't it?

Well, that one technically we had to plan it

because I needed a copy of Al's microphone

and they needed a copy of,

and I needed a copy of Dave's mic.

So we needed to, so we would hear

both sides of the conversation.

So that was planned.

I remember once, I guess he would send the camera

into the 6B green room, the Joan Collins,

I mean, I remember a lot of these episodes.

I don't remember everyone, but I remember a lot.

He sent a camera to the green room

where Joan Collins was.

I don't know if you remember that,

but I do remember that.

That was spur of the moment.

There's one memory.

So I'm broadcasting from Canada

and a lot of NHLers end up,

folks who played for the National Hockey League

end up retiring in the area that I,

that I live in, one of the guys is the name,

Legendary New York Islander by the name of Bob Born.

And Bob Born came on my other podcast

that I hosted some men's mental wellness podcast,

and he told a story about how after they won,

I don't know what it was.

It was there maybe there are third Stanley Cup,

something like that.

Bob Born brought the Stanley Cup

with maybe Mike Bossier, one of them, to Live at Five,

and Dave had his people come in

and steal the Stanley Cup from the Live at Five audience

and put it on his desk.

And those are the antics.

Like that to me encapsulates perfectly the antics

of what Dave brought to the table.

Did it, was there like a noticeable jump in the crew

and all the people that you worked with

once Letterman started firing on all cylinders

and started doing that stuff?

I mean, it must have made work terribly fun

and certainly not ordinary.

A lot of what, a lot of what he did

when he took off and did these things

were a result of planned events not working.

Like a prop not working or I remember one time

he went to make a phone call.

They used the phone call on the air a lot.

The equipment at the time was not the most reliable

so it didn't sound the greatest.

So he went to pick up the phone to place a call

and the guy I can't hear you

or went into feedback or it just didn't work.

So he got up nonchalantly, went to the backstage,

took out a fire axe and just chopped up the telephone.

And I mean, you can't write that, it just happened.

I remember, you know, similar things happening

where props just didn't work the way they worked

in rehearsal and again, he would take off

and he would build upon that.

I don't know if he liked doing that

because he felt they were relying on him

to do all the work.

Sure.

Well, you have this bit planned and rehearsed

and it doesn't work and now what does he do?

He's got to finish it.

That's right.

And you do that once or twice, it's funny

but he can't be expected to do that every single time.

Well, and it's interesting because, you know,

all these years later, what is the thing that Dave is

maybe most known for and it's his reaction time?

It's his wit thinking on his feet,

the spur of the moment stuff that comes out.

Yeah.

But yeah, like it's a little bit like, you know, dance monkey,

like we're gonna rely on that.

Well, okay, but especially at that stage

at the very beginning of the production,

you know, you don't know that you necessarily have,

you know, the quickest draw in the West all the time

when it comes to that stuff.

And then the technical problems they come up

and they create their own, you know, kind of issue here.

So yeah, go ahead.

Well, technically speaking, back in the 80s, mid 80s,

things were not as polished and slick and reliable

as they were in the latter part of the years.

I mean, you could never get, you could never get by without

towards the end of the show at the CBS show, right?

They had a higher level and a higher expectation

than they did back in the early days.

In the early days, it was just a little, you know,

low budget cheap talk show with a lot of obscure guests

and it kind of grew from there.

Absolutely.

The, and a little bit of the, the inmates

running the asylum kind of advise to it, right?

That's what it was.

Yes.

Last, I think it was last week

that was Hal Gernie's birthday.

Yeah, he was 101 years old.

And I was, I was telling somebody that I owe my career

in, in directly to Hal Gernie,

because when I started mixing the show back in 1988,

I didn't have a strong background mixing a show like that.

And it was a little, it was a little rough.

It was a little rough in my area.

And it got back to me by more than one person

that Hal would have meetings with this show

and the company saying, well, what do we do?

Should we replace him, you know, and get somebody else?

And it was Hal that said, no, no,

let's give him a little time to get settled

and get comfortable in there.

And, and I did settle and got comfortable,

but it got back to me that Hal supported me in that,

in that area.

So I'll always be grateful to him for that.

A legend literally had your back.

That's it.

Like I said, it got back to me by more than one person.

So I will always be grateful for Hal

and indirectly credit him for the long career

that I have even after the show left.

It was 32 years after the show left that I continued

and, you know, did many, many other shows.

Oh, Steve, that's how, thank you very much.

That's such a beautiful sentiment.

And, and thank you to Hal for everything

because he was a legend at that time.

I mean, he's one of those guys.

That's one of the guys that worked for par, you know,

that one of those guys that was around long

before you were, you showed up there.

And, and the fact before I was born, yeah.

Yeah, like that's, that's, that's, that's, that's beautiful.

That's a, that's a beautiful thing.

Hal was a pleasure to work with.

He was just, he was just so even keel and, and, and quiet

and, and, and funny.

Yeah.

Just a pleasure.

Oh, that's, I love, I love hearing that.

Who are some of your other, uh, foxhole buddies at that time?

Like, like, at the time that you, if you came over in 80, 86 or whatever it was,

April of 86, I think it said it was, um,

who are some of the foxhole buddies that were there with you that you,

you worked with in the trenches?

Uh, you'll remember Bob Rooney.

Bob Rooney was a star, an on-camera star.

Uh, I don't know, I don't know how they determine that.

But, uh, he got to be a regular day player on that show many times.

I worked with him for years.

Yeah. Yeah.

Um, because when you're there, are you're not a, are you alone in the booth?

Yes.

Okay.

So it's just you.

And what are you responsible for?

Uh, as late night is going on, uh, what are you responsible for?

As that's happening.

I was the production mixer.

I was responsible for the audio and the sound, the overall sound of the show.

Uh, we did have somebody in a music room.

Mike DeLug at the time would mix the music, um, and, and he would send it

to me and I would integrate the music with the production mics, uh, and the

audience in any video type, tape playbacks and some sound effects playbacks

that we had in another room.

And I would incorporate all those elements together and mix the show.

So my title was broadcast mixer, I guess you'd call it.

And, and this is all real time.

It's not all in post.

That's just like a lot of this is real.

Zero post.

Ex there you go.

Okay.

I don't think there were pro tools back then they might have been.

They had multi track recording.

We never multi track the show.

Yeah.

So what we did at 530 is forever and ever.

Good or bad.

Some of them were not that good.

But, um, let's talk about some of the things that, uh, were there ever

any times where, um, you know, something fell to you or on you or you were

blamed for that, that made it on to camera that affected the show.

Oh, yeah.

Uh, um, uh, yeah, there would be audio mistakes.

I can't think of anything specific, but, you know, speaker not working.

This guy is across the studio or across town and he couldn't, he couldn't hear him.

There was a problem.

Oh, yeah, this, you know, so that was, that was my fault.

That happened once in a while.

But once I got comfortable, they happened less and less.

Yeah.

Well, and, and it always got a big laugh because if something went wrong,

there was Dave to pick up the slack and, and, you know, make it funny.

Well, and, you know, Robert Morton and I were talking about this again.

The other day is just the idea of the tone of the show celebrating failure.

You almost wanted something to go wrong, you know, because of that, but, but,

but the part, the beautiful part about it is you can't, it has to be real.

It can't, you can't pretend that something went wrong or, or whatever.

Unless it's part of a, uh, an out there bit.

It's when things actually went wrong.

That's when things, uh, it was organic and that made it that much more entertaining.

Yeah.

Not fun for you while you're sitting in your booth, though.

Yeah, yeah.

When it's, yeah, when it's you is not funny when it happens to the other guy,

it's, it's funny, but then when it happens to you, it's not necessarily funny.

Uh, but the mistakes happen less and less as, as I got more experienced and the

technology improved, you know, the wireless microphones.

They redesigned them and now they're fine.

Everybody uses them without a second thought.

Back then they were, they were so, so, um, you would be there when you were,

they were like during rehearsal, if they were going to use the telephone,

like you talked about before, uh, that was you, you were a huge part of that

process, right?

Yes.

Okay.

Um, one of the things that Rick used to talk to me or Sheki told me about,

and I mean, I think he even found, apparently he found a tape of them.

Um, many times Dave, when he would be testing the phone system for a segment,

okay, you know what I'm talking about them.

I have, I have three, I have three CDs that someone made or maybe two CDs

that someone made of old Dave's, uh, test phone calls,

which would be the equivalent, which, which, which would be the equivalent of a

teenager making phony phone calls in the day, but much, much funnier.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Like, like, like Rick has told me, and I mean, some of them have made their way.

I don't know, uh, some of them have made their way to the, to, to the public.

And it's hilarious.

It's the funniest thing you'd ever think of.

It's, it's, it's Dave calling, uh, book publishers and, or, or, or, or,

different, uh, different businesses and whatnot and, and bothering them.

Dave, purely being Dave, not even for anybody's entertainment, except for the

very small few people like yourself that are testing the equipment.

You have three CDs of it.

You and I will have a conversation when, uh, uh, when the, when the, when the record

light goes off, uh, that is unbelievable that you have that.

That is a time capsule and also just a brilliant, brilliant piece of history,

comedy history that you have, uh, you once called up a local test the phone

and listen, he once called up a local police department and told him his

call was in the shop.

Can I, can I borrow one of your patrol cars to run some errands?

Now, if I did it, it, it wouldn't be funny, but I don't know.

His was funny.

So, you know, it's like, um, and there, this is out there in the universe.

When Tom Snyder hosted his show, his radio show, Dave, many times driving

home would call in and prank Tom Snyder's, uh, radio show.

He would do the same thing and, and just Dave's penchant for mischief is just,

uh, it's one of the things that we love so much about it and the tone of the

show.

It was a very mischievous show.

Um, was that frustrating for you or was it easy for you to kind of get a

little less tight, uh, tight knit and enjoy the ride when it comes to this

stuff?

I did.

Yeah.

Once I got comfortable doing my job, it was a scream.

I mean, I, I, I remember some, some of the Larry Bud episodes that,

man, I, I couldn't be straight.

I was laughing so hard.

Um, and I have my, and I tell people that they have to know, but of my 45 years

working, those eight years were without a doubt, the highlight of my time

there.

And that's the show not left.

I'm, I'm hope, you know, I think I would have stayed, you know, forever or

who knows, but yeah, let's talk a little bit about that because like, you

know, a bunch of the crew, um, either had the opportunity and, and, and took

it, uh, had the opportunity, didn't take it or, or, or didn't quite get the

opportunity to move over to CBS and, and, and, and there's a lot of people

that were put into, into terrible, you know, decisions, whether or not,

because they wanted to so badly, but it was an unproven thing, seniority,

where they were all of the stuff that, you know, and again, 30 Rock is, you

know, they didn't just work necessarily on late night, they might be working on

other stuff as well.

And just the way of it, were you ever, um, were you ever tempted to say, no,

you know what, when the circus leaves, I want to go with the circus.

I feel was.

Yeah.

But like you said, I, I needed stability in my life.

You know, it's taking a chance.

I had, I guess 14 years there, I was settled into the place, you're going

to an unknown place.

Yep.

Uh, I, I, I was just afraid, honestly, afraid to take the chance.

Yeah, I went over to the theater a couple of times to visit some friend.

Well, that was nice.

But, um, I think I made the, I think I made the right choice.

I mean, I was there for the eight years, loved it.

And I went off to do many, many other projects that I'm happy with.

So, uh, as it turns out, it, it worked out of fine for me.

And I know some people that did go, uh, and I've lost touch to most of them.

So I, I don't really know how things worked out.

I assume fine, but I don't know for sure.

Yeah.

I mean, um, it would be such a difficult, such a difficult thing, especially if you

are, you know, somebody who loves broadcasting, like leaving 30 rock itself,

30 rock, like, I, I'm a big hockey fan, you know, we talk about home ice

advantage, you know, when, when the home team gets their fans and all that 30

rock might be the greatest home ice advantage that there is in broadcasting.

Well, the Ed Sullivan Theater is, is fine too.

I mean, you know, it's, it's a, it's a nice place.

Uh, for me, it, I just couldn't afford to take the chance.

Yeah, um, yeah, and things changed a little bit too.

They got more serious when they went over to CBS from what I hear.

Oh, they elevated, they had to.

Like you say, uh, you know, it wasn't the inmates running the asylum anymore.

It was the inmates now inherit, uh, the, the, the, the, the tonight show,

the biggest show on TV, we got to all step up and then, you know, they had

to change the tone of the show to the point where, like, there's going to be

a lot of people who, um, only, who tune into this episode in particular

because it's going to, it focuses on the late night years.

Like, there's a huge contingent of, of, uh, enthusiasts who love late night,

uh, you know, that, that was, that once, once, once, um, late night,

left 30 rock, so too did a portion of the audience.

There's going to be a lot of people who are, who are excited that you're here

and we're talking about the late night days, uh, because it was such a magical

time because it wasn't elevated to that place you were talking about.

It wasn't as, forward facing, it wasn't as serious, uh, when it came to things,

you know, um, so, okay, so you've given a good, um,

did you just do that? Were you just in the booth the whole time or, or,

did you move into any other departments for late night?

Uh, I, I started as an audio assist on the floor.

Yeah. Because one of the guys retired, I did that for, uh, a year and a half to

two years and then, um, they needed to change the mixer on the show.

So they had me do it.

They pretty much said, you're going to do it.

I said, well, you know, I don't really have a background doing this type of show

and they say, well, you better learn because you're going to be doing it.

So they threw me into that position and, uh, it was like I said before,

I was a little bit uncomfortable because, and hesitant because I had never done a show like that.

And, uh, you know, you had to be ready for anything at any time, you know,

because he could do anything.

Um, but once things settled down and I got comfortable, it was, it was pleasure.

I mean, I used to get to work early.

How many people get to work early?

Can't wait to get to work to see what was going to be happening for that day.

I, I loved it.

Was the rehearsal even more entertaining than the actual show?

Yeah. They ran, I don't, I don't, I don't have it.

And I don't know that it exists.

But a lot of times they ran a tape in the back of the rehearsals.

Uh, I don't know where they are, uh, or even if they exist.

But, uh, at one time, I know that every day they used to record the rehearsals

and get a big laugh out of it.

Um, oh, man, I can, I can imagine.

So like the first year and a half, like being on the floor, uh, seeing some of the things

that you'd see, where would you, where was your position while the show was being, um, recorded?

Uh, where were you standing on the floor?

Just out of camera range, just literally, uh, on the floor, but out of camera range.

So like in between Dave and the blue doors or like around the blue doors or, uh, it could be either

there or more, more often I think was on the other side of the studio by Paul's piano.

Okay. I think so.

And, um, if things were going tickety-boo, you know, you're kind of on autopilot,

you're able to watch what's going on there.

If things are going well, I shouldn't have to do anything.

Yeah.

They didn't use wireless mics in the very beginning.

They insisted on a boom.

Yep.

Uh, which was one job less for the audio assist because he didn't have to might guess.

They only had a handful of wireless mics.

But they insisted on using the boom for guests.

Okay.

Here's where I want to, where I want to start mining your memory banks.

So, so the times when you're on the floor and you're literally, you know,

10 feet away from what now is considered, uh, you know, some of the greatest broadcasting material ever.

What are some of the memories that you have of things that you saw while you're on the floor?

Oh, uh, Sonny and Cher.

Oh my god.

Sonny and Cher, so that's a great memory.

Sonny and Cher show.

Yes, I was right next to the band, Paul.

And I remember that.

Sonny was as nice as could be.

Came around to everybody on the floor, introduced himself.

And at the end of the show, at the end of the day, he went around to every person and said,

thank you very much.

I thought that was, that was pretty nice.

That's, that's, that's, that's the moving, moving in, uh, those are the,

the deeds of somebody who wants to be in politics or is in politics.

That's for sure.

I guess so, yeah.

And, and you almost want Cher to be a little bit untouchable, don't you?

You almost want her to be, yeah, she, she did not have the same reaction that, that he did.

But, uh, I thought that was very, very nice.

He went literally to every person on the floor, not knowing who they were or what they do.

Uh, he would go up and say, you know, introduce himself and say thank you at the end of the day.

I thought that was very, very nice.

That's an amazing moment right there.

That's, that's very, very cool.

Uh, what else back then that, uh, that, that's a phenomenal one to lead out on.

There's no question.

That's a historic moment, um, when it comes to entertainment, uh, seeing that.

What are some other things that you're on?

I don't, I don't know.

I remember the monkey cam.

Do you remember the monkey cam of cool with Sandra Bernhardt?

Yeah, I think, I think I had a long time ago.

I think the monkey didn't do what he was supposed to do.

And he did some things that had to be cut out because they did, he was not obedient.

I remember that.

I remember being on the floor.

I remember, uh, it was a K-more of the magician.

You know all the episodes.

K-more.

Yup.

And Dave would make fun of him a lot.

And I remember being on the floor with his props.

And, uh, I, I thought that was funny.

I like the Jack, the Jack Hanna and his animals.

That was a scream.

Again, it was Dave, you know, Dave doing his counterpart to the, to the animal segment.

But that was a scream.

So what I'm hearing is, is, it sounds like, um, when things out of the ordinary,

like that would happen, stupid human tricks, stupid pet tricks, um, you know,

these segments that, that, that, um, included, you know, extra, uh, extra people out of the

ordinary stuff.

It sounds like those are the days that you, you, you really enjoyed when you're on the floor

because they make up the, uh, right.

Because you're right there.

You're right there.

As long as the camera doesn't see you, which you're not supposed to, uh, it was great.

It was great.

It was like I said, it was really the highlight of my, of my professional career.

It was so enjoyable.

People were so nice.

I know you a lot of them, you know a lot of them, you do a lot of interviews with them.

They were all just the nicest bunch of people.

I haven't gotten everybody.

So anybody who, uh, anybody who was part of that crew that wants to come on,

you know, have a conversation with you.

I was willing to now, it wants to help most, no, almost no one wants to come on the show.

Anybody who'd be willing to have a conversation with me about this, uh,

I would, I would love to, um, at this point here, we're getting into the times when

anniversary specials were happening, prime time specials were happening.

You get to the point where, um, you know, A&E is, is, is, is broadcasting reruns and, and, and

Rick, uh, before his passing, Rick would told me a lot about, about that.

Were you part of mixing those special projects and things like that as well?

Yes, that's another highlight of my years.

I did the, uh, the 10th anniversary special at Radio City.

Wow.

And the 8th anniversary special at the LA Amphitheater.

There was no 9th anniversary special.

For some reason, they just didn't do it.

Um, I did the, the 10th, the 8th, I guess the 7th,

the 6th, uh, 5th, what year would the 5th be?

I don't recall that, um, that's 87 probably is your 5th.

86, uh, I think that might have been an 8H.

There were, one of them was done in 8H.

I don't remember, I, I can't remember which one.

But the two highlights were Radio City.

Yep.

It was here.

You're mixing, to me, mixing a crowd of over 5,000 people and a huge,

all-star band.

Yep.

That was, that was great.

And, uh, very similar to the, um, yes.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

We're not in Kansas anymore.

Like, like, that's, that's big time show business stuff right there.

That's huge.

Yeah, again, again, Mike, the look, uh, mixed all the music from the

trailer next to ours.

But yeah, so you had Bob Dylan.

Um, I can't remember.

Oh, no, no, no, it's a, it's an all-stars.

Who, who's who, um, and, okay, so you would mix that stuff as well.

So you're, you're a part of it.

Like, I mean, you had to learn kind of the dialect of the show and, and, and,

all of those shows, those shows were multi-tracked and remixed.

They did send them out of house.

Okay.

Because they wanted, those are prime time shows.

They had to be absolutely perfect.

Right.

Um, so they, they sent them out of house.

They multi-tracked everything.

Yep.

They remixed it and it aired in prime time.

Because the stakes and, obviously, the stakes in prime time are very high.

Yeah.

Not that there was anything wrong with the mix.

I think it was fine, but, but that's what you do.

You, you, you make it perfect.

That's that extra level of polish.

Yeah, that's fine.

Absolutely.

But what about, like, show, go to Chicago and places like that.

Did you go on?

I did, yes.

Yes, we did Chicago in 89.

I think it was.

Yeah, my son was one year old.

So, yes, so we did a week at the Chicago theater.

I think about those shows and, and, and, and,

whenever late night would go on the road or, or they would do something a little extra ordinary.

Um, and, and, and the audiences always had a different feel to them.

Now, obviously, it's a different size, different room.

It's a theater rather than a studio, all of that sort of stuff.

But I felt like when it came to the audio, um, I noticed, uh,

there was a measurable difference between the audio of the studio audience.

And when you went to Chicago, like, it felt like a party.

It felt like it was just, it was way more

ruckus and, and, and, is that something that, um, you know,

you guys focus on.

It's like, hey, we're in a different place here.

We want the audio presentation to come across differently to show people that,

not just with their, with, with their eyes, but also with their ears.

Oh, absolutely.

Well, first of all, the 6A audience was only 200 people about.

Yeah.

And the, I don't know what the Chicago theater is.

It's a few thousand.

It's, it's pretty big and radio cities over 5,000.

I'm not sure what Chicago theater is.

But like I said, it's a special event.

Yeah.

So the crowd is really into it, really into it.

And to me, from my job, that's what makes the sound of the show is the,

is the audience, how the audience relates to,

to Dave and the music act and putting it all together.

So yes, the, the special events, the crowds were amazing.

It's like, it was like, you almost didn't have to do anything

because they just mixed themselves.

They were just at a level that, that they sounded so thrilled to be there.

Yeah, I mean, it was, it was like that.

That show, it was lightning in a bottle.

And, and a lot of fun also.

Well, there you go.

Like, yeah.

And I mean, I want to, I want to, I want to hear any other,

any other stories you have about that.

Because I mean, you'd people talking about their formative years.

And, and how many people who worked for that show said the sentiment that you've said earlier.

I mean, dozens of people have said to me, those were the happiest days of my life.

Like, like, you know, obviously decisions got to be made, you know,

people who decide to have families or, or, or different career choices with spouses and things

like that. And life happens.

And, and, and so for people who have been kind of more life happened and they floated away,

10, 15, 20 years later, we'll still say those were the happiest times of my life.

I, I still say that to anybody that, you know, cares, cares.

Yes, they were and shows always come to an end where they're, you know,

where they're, they're on the air for two years or 10 years or 20.

They, you know, shows end and you go on to your next project.

Yeah.

So for me, that was, that was the thing to do.

And was it late night with Conan O'Brien?

Did you move over to Conan after that?

I did not move over.

I eventually got to, they, they, what they did is they changed the entire crew

or most of the crew for whatever reason it, it happens.

It took a little while, but I got to be the fill in mixer on Conan.

So I did, I did a number.

Yeah, I did a number of, of, of the Conan shows when the regular audio mixer was not there.

So that was fine.

I was, I was perfectly happy with that.

Okay, that was a lot of fun.

Yeah, sure, of course.

And I mean, very, very similar, very similar.

I remember the first time I did it, I said, okay,

Conan and his Dave, Max's Paul, audience is the same.

You know, it was a certain similarity between the two shows.

Was the vibe the same?

As far as

the inmates running the asylum, like, like, the one thing about Conan,

you know, the silly seemed to translate very, very, very well.

You know, the late night silly for Dave is the late night silly for Conan.

Yes, it was.

Yes, yeah, I would say so.

That's a good question.

But yeah, I would say it was the same idea.

To me, it felt like I said, very similar that,

that Conan and his Dave, Max's Paul, the audience of the audience,

so it's, it's going to be just like that.

And yeah, it was the same thing.

The writers running around coming up with these wacky ideas.

Yeah.

Yeah, also enjoy, I also enjoy doing that show.

Yeah, that's good.

That's really good.

And, um, was there, because when you were working, okay, so when you were

in your heyday for late night, was that your beginning, middle end of the day,

or did they have you working on other projects that, uh,

other broadcasts that NBC had to go on?

No, that was the day we would come in, uh, 11-ish and be out by 630, 645.

That was the day.

Four days a week.

By 645, you're out like that's, that's, that's great hours too.

Like, like, you had, you had the show in television that you had great hours

within the show.

Like, you really did have a sweet spot.

There were good hours.

There was no fixes.

Like I said, we didn't multi-track everything to sit in an edit session for a

couple of hours afterwards.

We didn't do that.

Didn't exist.

There was nothing good of, yeah.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Now, now they probably do, or, you know, all the shows do.

They probably fix whatever needs to be fixed.

But back then, you were done at 630, 640, we're out the door.

Wow.

Good or bad, you were done.

Good or bad.

Well, that's the thing.

It's the box of Kleenex, right?

Like, there's always another show.

Right.

There's always tomorrow at how used to come by every night, every night to every person.

Good or bad, he'd say, thank you very much.

Thank you.

He might say, what happened?

Well, this happened.

Okay.

Thank you.

But every night without fail, he'd go to everybody on the crew and say, thank you.

But that being said, he does that.

And then is how moving over immediately to the post-mortem?

Like, if he would have been part of that, I would think where they talk about all of that.

It, you know, goes around talks to the crew, whatever finds out everything,

and then goes to the post-mortem, I would assume, right?

You know what?

If they did, it was upstairs.

Yep.

Away from the studio.

So, honestly, I have no idea what went on after that.

That is a beautiful, beautiful thing.

Because I mean, you know, you think when you're the director,

and especially if there are technical problems or whatever,

the buck is going to stop with that person anywhere.

Right. They come to you.

Yeah.

And they, yeah, yeah.

So, that's a beautiful, beautiful thing that how, how would do that?

Yes, so that was very, very nice.

Did he go upstairs to a post-mortem?

I don't know because everything was discussed upstairs.

If Dave was unhappy or something didn't work,

they did not do that in front of anybody in the studio.

They would take it upstairs to their offices and then do whatever.

Nobody, you know, whatever happened.

Nobody knows, which is the right thing to do.

Because you don't want to do it.

It's not a lovely assignment that everybody does.

Yeah, because it rolls downhill, right?

It gets bigger and it rolls downhill.

And isn't it nice to hear that, that, no, no, no.

It kind of stopped there at that point.

And if, you know, there's something to be said the next day,

it can be said, you know, civilly and all of that sort of.

Right.

And if it's something that needed to be addressed,

they would address it the next morning.

First thing in the morning and say, all right,

we need to do this.

We need to do that or whatever it is.

But I assume they took their issues and problems

up to the office and discussed it up there.

So I wasn't, you know, nobody in the studio

was aware of anything that went on.

Who are some of the other, you know,

department heads or producers and whatnot that you worked with?

Like, did you work with Morty very much?

Did you work with, did you work with Shecky at all?

Did you work with any of those?

Oh, yeah, well, Shecky, yeah, Shecky Morty.

Morty was the, I think he was the head writer

when I, wasn't he a head writer?

Head segment producer, perhaps, Rob,

Rob Burnett was a head writer for a while.

Steve O'Donnell was a head writer.

Rob Burnett was an intern when I started on the show.

Oh my gosh, he was still an intern back then.

Okay, so yeah, Morty,

I have, we got, we got, they were very generous with the swag.

But I did have to purchase my yellow late night varsity jacket.

You purchased it.

Did you have to purchase and sign up with intern Rob Burnett?

I remember that.

With, wow, wow.

So, so you saw Rob's entire evolution.

And I mean, you look at a guy like that.

He's got a feature coming out here pretty quick

and just a Titan in the Letterman universe.

And you saw that.

Where was he now?

By the way, where was he now?

I haven't heard his name mentioned in a while.

He just directed a feature that's coming out.

I don't know exactly when it is.

And I don't want to spoil anything if I'm not supposed to say it.

But that's out there that he just finished the feature right now.

I think they're editing there in post.

I think that might even be done now.

So yeah, he's doing real well.

And so is Morty actually.

I just talked to Morty the other day.

Oh, they did.

I know Morty's doing well in LA.

He is.

He's doing, he's doing, he's doing, he's selling, he's selling.

I'll get him to write a book.

And I'm pestering him.

I'm pestering him.

He's got, he's got, he showed me this list once.

We did breakfast a couple of years ago.

And it's like, he's got 30, just keywords.

And every single keyword is an amazing show business story or story of New York,

Old New York, whatever it is.

And you look at them all and all of those stories would be a book.

And so I'm bugging him right now trying to get him to, uh,

he's got, he's, he's got stories.

And if you're looking at his phone, if you're looking at his phone book,

you'd see some, you know, big time names.

Uh, he would, he would be one that has plenty of stories.

Well, it's funny.

And when we talked about it, one of the things,

it wasn't so much, I want to tell all these stories about show business.

It was, it was, I want to talk about New York.

And he, and he has this, this love affair of New York back then,

you know, the way that it's mystical to me living in Western Canada.

I always wanted to go to New York.

Just was this, this, this, this, this, not just romantic,

but this mystical place.

And, and, and, and Morty felt that way in real time living there back then.

And that's one of the things that we talk about is just how much he loved that.

And you think about it, like you were a part of

the epicenter of what many would say was the coolest thing that was in New York at the time.

And you were part of it.

And, and, and the question that I love to ask, uh, the late night alum,

especially is, did you know it?

Did you know real time what you were a part of while you were there,

or was it only reflection afterwards, uh, to realize, holy cow, I was part of that.

I think it was, I, I think it was afterwards.

At the time, it was just a job.

I'm going to work.

This is, this is my job.

Um, but, but, but that show at that time was the show that they would talk about the next day.

Did you see Letterman last night?

You see what he did with the thing?

Uh, I don't know if shows do that anymore.

That's that water cooler effect, right?

That's what they call it, the water cooler.

I remember being, um, I was single at the time, being in a bar.

And I had the late night on TV.

And I was with some people at the bar.

And, uh, I said, oh, watch what's going to happen now.

The thing is going to happen.

And sure enough, the thing was happening.

How did you know that?

And I'm like, well, I'm there every day.

I work on the show.

So I felt, I felt, you know, for, for two seconds, I felt like, uh, important.

Um, yeah, no, that's, that, that's the dream.

Because I was the guy, you know, in high school where, where, where our water cooler was,

the other guy who's walking past you, where you both are in the secret club of knowing

what late night with David Letterman is.

And as you're walking by each other, going to the next class, did you see that moment last night?

When that, yeah, oh my god, and you just, that was that electricity that was there.

And that so many of us still carried to this day.

More so, I think for, for, for, for, for the productions of David Letterman,

than any other show ever, I, I just think it, it had, uh, it had,

it's the first late night show that had a cult following and it became a cult-like show.

Yes.

And it's still that way to this day, you know, I don't, and again, no offense to Mr. Leno

or some of these other people that are out there.

But there is no, you know, groups of people that are like trying to keep that stuff alive.

The way that there is, for Dave's crew.

And I think also just the people that are inspired, you know, we talk about Conan,

but you look at all of the different broadcasters, performers, hosts that are out there,

all of whom have been influenced by what you guys, it wasn't just Dave, it was what you guys did.

Because the tone of the show, every department was a character.

You know, even the sound department, like, like, you weren't the sound effect guy, right?

No, I wasn't, but, yes, the breaking glass or whatever, uh, whatever else he did.

Bruce, yes, he was great.

Yeah, with Bruce, the, the, the, the game show Ding or X or, or, or, yeah, like you say,

the breaking glass or all of that sort of stuff, every department of that show was a character.

And I don't know that we've ever seen that even since then.

I don't know if we've seen it the way that you guys did it.

But again, yeah, that, that's the question.

It's real time.

Do you understand how different the show is at that point?

I think it was, I think what we did is we just went to work and did what we had to do that day.

That's it.

I don't, I don't think we really thought about, we thought this is funny.

This is really funny stuff.

But that's it.

Like I said, we come to work and it's just your job.

You know, some of the guys would work on, on late night, some of them would work on nightly news.

It's just a, it's just an assignment and it's just where you go for that day.

I mean, I was lucky enough to have it full time for eight years, just under eight years.

But it was just a job, enjoyable job.

But just a job, we did at the time we didn't think that 33 years later,

we'd still be talking about that show.

Yeah, that's for sure.

Okay, so other, I'm a big music guy, huge music guy.

You mentioned Sunny and Cher earlier.

Any other musical moments, are you a music guy?

Do you, like your audio guy, but do you enjoy music?

I used to, I used to play drums about a hundred years ago.

But yeah, I still, I still have an interest.

I don't, I don't play, but I still have an interest in it.

Oh, yeah, we had, we had big, I can't remember.

Well, like I said, the old star bands from the, from the specials, that was big.

I remember, like you said, Bob Dylan and Carol King to the eighth or the sixth,

one of them at Radio City, Carol King, Billy Joel, Joe Walsh.

Yeah, I can't, I can't remember.

But, uh, big names.

And that's crazy because like on a day-to-day basis, you would have

sometimes some of the biggest artists in the world who come into literally jam

with Paul and the band and they're, they're, they're, they're coming in, you know?

Yeah, any, anybody, any musical act that in, in, when, in, when they were in 6A,

I don't know if it was a rule or a contract, I don't know, but they would really play with Paul

and the band. Very rarely, if ever, did they bring their entire band?

Yeah, I don't know where that came from.

So when you're plugging in a variable every single day, does that even get predictable?

Like, even though it's somebody who's out, who doesn't necessarily understand the vibe of

what goes on every single day with Paul and the band, you know, they're different, they're a different,

a different variable gets added to it.

Did even that get tight as a drum or was it different for every person?

Because obviously, everybody's got a different vocal range, everybody's got a different, yeah.

Yeah, well, a little of each.

I mean, I mean, you know, most part of it, it's, it's every day, this is what we do.

We have a, you know, a band or a musician coming in and he has these number of inputs,

a guitar and he brings a guitar with him, for example.

Yeah, it got down to be, it got to be a routine after a while.

And things went smoothly for the most part.

I remember, there was one time, I can't remember who it was.

I can't remember who it was.

There was only one time that they had to stop because the artist pulled the power of his

amplifier and an electric car doesn't make any noise without an amplifier.

I can't remember who it was.

So obviously, you have no choice but to stop and do it.

But that's the only time that I could think of that they actually had to stop

and start over again.

And I can't remember who it is.

I just can't remember who it is.

Right?

And that's, that's a high, that's, that's, you're no net there.

You're, you're live.

That's, that's just it.

Yeah.

But you move over to Dave and they love to film it like it was live.

Like they, like to stop tape ever, right?

Ever, ever.

Like I said, there was the one time and I can't remember who it was that, that he pulled

the power cord off his amplifier.

That's like it.

That's the only time that I could think of that they had to stop

and do something over again.

They started right on time, 530, 30.

They never said, you know, hold, hold for 10 minutes.

A lot of the other shows that are taped, they'll say, hold for 10 minutes when they go off and do this.

This show, like I said, 530, 30, they would record in real time.

Yep.

A lot of times they would go late and he would apologize and bump a guest instead of,

instead of editing, well, I guess they had to edit some.

I don't really know.

Often the guest would be bumped.

You'd say, you know, I'm sorry to so and so we ran out of time.

We'll have them back another time.

But it was pretty much real time every night, real time.

Don't get me wrong.

I understand the power of an edit.

I understand the power of what it can be done in post.

The feeling, the momentum that you're talking about, like, like, hold for 10.

I'm sorry.

No, so what are we going to do?

Get a warm-up guy out to keep the audience live?

A warm-up guy dying out there who's trying to keep the audience awake

and you just waiting five minutes, 10 minutes.

No, every night, right on time, 530, 30.

I don't know why it was 530, 30.

But that was the time they taped.

Everything was timed out to the second when David would come out and say hello.

It was literally 90 seconds as if that was live too.

Every night, 90 seconds before 530, 30,

he would walk out, say hello, blah, blah, blah.

They'd say 30 seconds and they'd count them down as if it was live, which is great.

Because I would much rather do live.

No question.

And I'm certain that I'm glad to hear you say because you've got the experience

with, like, real live and then also the feeling that they were translating.

I think, like, a lot of these things looking back on what made late-night great

was things like what you're talking about here where, okay,

you know, we want to have that feeling of live.

It's going to be like it's a character in the show.

It's, it's a momentum.

It's a feeling you can't, you can't really explain it.

It's not super tangible.

But you know, when the intensity is there, like, no, no, we're live,

there's a different, everybody elevates to a different place, I think.

Well, yeah, because if you say, all right,

hold 10 minutes or if you say, okay, stop, everybody,

we're going to do something.

It takes the spontaneity out of it and they didn't want that.

They wanted to keep it, like you said, as if it was live,

which is great.

And it's good for everybody, not just for Dave or the band,

but for everybody to get that mentality of this is live.

We're doing it live, okay.

So I prefer it.

I, well, again, like, from a viewer standpoint, I think it translates.

I'm certain it translates.

It just feels higher stakes, if that makes sense,

you know, higher stakes to a completely goofy show,

higher stakes for something that doesn't matter, but it does matter.

And it did matter.

And it certainly moved the needle.

It changed things in so many ways.

Obviously, the CDs that you have, that's unbelievable.

Oh my goodness, that you have those.

Did you keep any other souvenirs from the show?

No, not really.

I remember when the show went away, it went away.

It was a Friday night and I came into work early Saturday morning

and the first thing I did is I went into 6A.

I thought I could find something.

The place was stripped down to the walls.

First thing Saturday morning.

I mean, they literally wanted everything out of there.

I would have taken something maybe

when a Kathleen set pieces or something to have.

But when I came in the next morning, there was nothing there.

It was stripped.

You mentioned Kathleen's name.

Let's talk about Kathleen anchors for a second.

Did you have very much time with her?

She was a very, very special person.

From everyone I've talked to, who knows her.

Right, she designed the late night set.

She did the Rosie O'Donnell set, I believe.

And I guess she did the late show set.

Yeah, this is one of her bridges.

That's so much fun.

Oh, see, yeah, see something like that.

I would have loved to have something like that from 6A.

I didn't realize that first thing, the next,

first thing in the morning, the next day, will be gone.

Wow.

And you were there for the rap party?

Oh, yeah.

Yes.

Yes, that was the one.

When did you get told Springsteen was the guy?

Do you remember that?

And that was a, that was a, well, I think I think most of the times

we didn't know who was on the show till that morning anyway.

Right.

So I don't think it was announced earlier, early that that he was going to be on.

No, it wasn't.

It was a, he was the surprise.

And so, you know, if there's anybody who's going to be brought in,

you know, that circle of trust early, it's going to be the audio guy.

So I would assume that you probably knew that before anybody.

I don't, I don't think.

I don't recall.

Honestly, I don't recall.

But most, for the most part, we didn't really know what was going on

until that morning.

Gotcha.

As far as, as Bruce Springsteen, that day, I don't recall.

I don't remember.

I've watched the show back.

I thought, oh, this is very good.

He was a big, he was a big draw, as he is today.

Yeah, I, that, that last show on late night,

I don't know if you can get closer to a perfect show.

It was, it was, it was, it captured everything from summing up the tone

of what had been built so far to giving highlights as to what the new tone

was going to be as Dave elevated and moved into more of that,

you know, that 1135 that we talked about.

Like he felt, he felt bigger than the show at that point.

The show, you know, it elevated to this point where it was like,

it has to evolve into something else.

And I think the last show did a very, very,

the last late night, I should say,

did a very, very good job of, of, of, of capturing all of those feelings

and putting them into one, you know, one aimed broadcast.

And I mean, Bruce Springsteen coming out,

I don't know if there's anybody better to sum up something like that

and to sing glory days.

What a, what a fitting tribute on everything.

And on that show, I mean, you guys always fired on everything.

You know, you celebrated failure all of that.

The whole thing is you guys had a phenomenal crew

and mostly didn't fail.

It was so good, but on that last show,

it felt like everybody just elevated it that much, that much higher.

It was such a beautiful, magical moment.

Fortunately, Will wasn't there.

I think he was off working somewhere.

He was in Japan. I believe he was in Japan.

Oh, yeah, unfortunately for that.

But yeah, no, it was great.

Like I said, it was, it was a highlight of my years.

And it's great to talk about it.

And I enjoyed it.

Do you keep in contact with Will?

No, I saw him when we went over to the theater

about two weeks before the late show ended.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Me and a couple of guys that worked in 6A,

we took a walk over to the theater to see whoever,

you know, to kind of say goodbye.

Hello and goodbye to the remaining people.

Most of the staff wasn't even born when we were in 6A,

right? Because that was 30 some years ago.

But it was fun to go over there and see the people that I did know.

So I saw Will and Sid and Beth and Paul and all those people.

You know, Will's, you know, you've watched what we do.

He's a friend of the show here.

He, Will and I are buds.

And I can't wait to get out to New York

and see him play at the bitter end again.

And the last time I came out,

he and Paul were doing something with Osnoy

and something at the bitter end.

And they still do play that kind of stuff.

I just, it's really cool to see that so many people

are still hanging out.

Are you still tight with anybody that you worked with back then?

You want to know something?

I'm the only person and I've been out for one year.

I'm the only person that was still there.

Most everybody else is either retired

or passed away, unfortunately.

I did see Paul about a year and a half ago.

I ran into him.

I had to kind of reintroduce myself to him because, you know, I got,

of course, a little grayer in 30 something year.

And he's like, oh, yeah, you know, so he was, he was very, very nice.

Very nice.

I haven't seen, I haven't seen Dave.

I ran into him once when he was on Conan in the, in the very beginning.

He was, you know, the other idea came back.

He was on Conan's show as a guest in the very beginning of Conan.

Yeah, so I saw him in the hole.

I went up to him and said hello.

That's really it.

Everybody went on their separate ways.

That's phenomenal because you talk about how you, you know, you filled in on Conan from then.

But you weren't, you know, you weren't the guy.

The fact that you were there the night Dave came back.

That is a historic night.

Like, like, there are many people out there, Conan himself,

who say that Conan O'Brien's fortunes changed that night.

Everybody was thinking he was DOA.

That show was going to be canceled.

You know, you go back to the week to week.

You know, I'm sure the crew would be talking about it, you know, like,

and the night that Dave showed up, the night you're talking about,

that is so cool that you got to be there for that because that night in particular was,

is credited as the night that turned things around for Conan.

Yeah.

There was another, another day that he was on late night,

not a Seth Meyers show, that Dave was a guest.

I was doing something else, I think, in the early morning.

So I wasn't, I wasn't in the area to stop.

I would have liked to have said hello.

But that day I was doing completely different hours.

So I wasn't around.

I did run into Anton.

Anton once, when, when Seth Meyers had a band a few years ago,

they had guest drummers week.

And I was in the building and I said hello to Anton.

He was, again, very, very nice when he was doing a guest, a guest shot on Seth.

Those guys, I mean, they're, they're what we call in Canada a beauty.

Anton's a beauty.

He's just, he's a great, great guy.

Great stories, great history, just so personable and so kind.

That's the other thing, that's the other thing about that crew.

Very few unkind people.

A lot of kindness in that crew, like, like, like, like, like, you know, just the vibe there.

A lot of people just really, really happy and wanting other people

to feel good to win.

Just a lot of kindness on that crew.

I think so.

I think so.

Like I said, everybody in the control room on the floor,

everybody was very, very nice.

I mean, they had a job to do.

There was a higher hierarchy, you know, the guy on the top has more power than the guy below you,

but that's okay.

But overall, everybody was very nice and really a pleasure to work with.

Any, any Christmas party memories?

We had Christmas parties.

Yes, we had at the skating rink, we did that once.

We did something downtown once.

I don't remember where it was.

They were very generous with the parties.

Yeah, they were generous with a lot of great Christmas party stories.

When you worked for the show, obviously, this, you know, the other gift that many of the late

night alumni got that the late show alumni didn't get as much was actual like FaceTime with Dave,

you know, like, like, a lot of, you know, there are people at the late show near the end of the run,

you know, they worked there for a couple of years and they'd only seen them once or twice,

you know, kind of in the flesh.

Not the case, though, for the late night crew.

You know, he was a lot more.

No, when we worked with him, he was quite approachable.

Whether it was in the hole or there was more than a couple of times that me and a friend of mine

went up to his office.

Hey, knock on the door.

Hey, you got a second?

Yeah, hey, what's up?

You know, different, different.

It was just different.

It was just different.

Yes, I heard the same thing where people who worked on the late show for years and years

you know, and never even met the guy.

Yeah.

Yeah, um, but when we were with him in 6A, he was quite approachable.

I had two kids and he sent over, you know, roses and he was very approachable,

different, almost like a different person.

Again, the stress level was much, much less in late night, right?

Absolutely.

Yeah, so he might have changed a little bit, but he had his pressure.

I would say that yeah, like I wouldn't necessarily say the stress was less because when you look

at the turnaround time of the late shift and when it happened, I mean, the idea of is he's

going to stay, is he going to leave all of this sort of stuff?

Like when that was happening, that was a different type of pressure, but it's funny you talk about

like the broadcast crew.

A huge number of people who love this show are in the broadcasting profession.

They're an audio guy, they're a camera guy, they're a mixer, they're a news director,

a lot of people for whatever, a lot of people who love broadcasting and love being part of a crew,

a lot of broadcasting crews love the show that you guys put on.

And I think it was because they made you guys, they made part of the crew characters in the show.

And you could tell Dave was a pure broadcaster and I think he liked talking to people

who liked being part of the technical part of the show because that's what he did back in the

Indiana. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think the same thing I do. Yeah. And they enjoy it.

It was a thrill to them. Imagine, you know, coming to work and part of your job was being

part of the show, right? That's not that most people don't have that near job.

Absolutely. Yeah, like Biff is the most famous stage manager that one was ever seen, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Biff did, Biff did quite well.

I can't thank you enough for being willing to open up here and to tell me some of these things,

Steve, it's really special. I appreciate it so much.

Well, I'm glad to do it. I think it's great that like I said, 33 years after the show left,

people still have an interest in it. I do. And not just an interest, but like, I got a seven-year-old

granddaughter who's like my everything. And I've been waiting with baited Biff to make sure she

likes what you guys did. You know, when I show her footage of the steam roller rolling over things

or throwing things off the tower or some of the things that you guys did, she laughs a little

butt off. And it just, it delights me that it translates still after all of these years to somebody

who is, you know, and it shows that humor is something that it can traverse time. It really,

really can. And certainly what you guys did does that. If you're entertaining people even to this

day, it sure shows what you guys did and how important it was. And it was really important to me.

And many other people, what you guys did was important. And it's so nice to be able to say that

to you and to say thank you very much for doing the job that you did or even screwing up the

time that you did that led to this moment, whatever that was. Yeah, my mistake got a big laugh.

That's right. But it's a pleasure to be able to even thank you for that, Steve. I am. I'm so

grateful. And I think it's great that like I said, you and your viewers still maintain an interest

in that show all these years later. That's great. Well, we do. All right. If I can, if I can answer

anything else for you, please, you can contact me anytime. Oh, yeah. I appreciate that as well.

And and well, here's a question for you. Do you still have a CD burner? We'll talk about that off

camera. We'll talk about that off camera. I just thank you so much for taking time today. Oh,

by the way, as the time that we're recording this, it's going to come out a few weeks later or

whatever. The timer recording it. Okay. Are you up to your armpits and snow? Is it still how bad

is it out there right now? It's about 11 degrees outside. And last week's snow is going to be

around for a while because it's not supposed to warm up in any time soon. That's the first time

New York can say that in a few years now. In a few years, probably four or five years. Yeah.

It's like the old. We'll get through it. We'll get through it. I have the furnace going. You may

hear it. I have the furnace going. So it's fine. You're in Canada. You're used to it. Oh, we're

honest to it. I'm like, hey, yeah, welcome to our world. I can't thank you enough today so much,

Steve. Thank you. This has been another episode of The Letterman Podcast with Mike Chisholm.

Coincidentally, I am Mike Chisholm. That's Steve Singer. Thank you. And good night.

They don't talk to me. Yeah. I don't talk to them.

Bang, zoom. All right.