2026 NBA Offseason Grades | Bulls, Cavaliers, Pistons, Pacers And Bucks

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1:00Dave Roberts here. There you are surrounded by fans, sharing wings, sharing drinks, high-fiving random strangers. Everybody remembers the game. Nobody remembers the guy coughing behind you until a few days later. At 2am, you wake up with the fever and your throats on fire. Now what? Urgent care, close. ER, slam, telehealth, maybe. But the pharmacy's closed. You needed a medical emergency kit. These aren't first aid kits. They contain essential prescriptions used for over 30 common conditions. Scientists and ear infection, UTI, stomach bug, travelers diarrhea, and more. On hand before you need them. Use your doctor-developed guidebook to select the right prescription or call their telemedicine doctor standing by. It's like an urgent care and drugstore at home. When you're sick, traveling or stranded, you wish you ordered a medical emergency kit. Order online in minutes and it's shipped to your door and say $45 with my promo code blue at urgentcarekit.com slash blue. That's promo code blue at urgentcarekit.com slash blue. Oh my gosh, you can't be serious. You

2:02think making the pick is the hard part? No, it's not. The pick takes like three seconds. You know it's hard? The sweat. The time between locking in and cashing out. Yeah, you have a take. But in the end, it's not about the winners or losers. This is about us, man. Whether we're brave enough to sit through it, don't fight the sweat. Live in it. Because you are an underdog. Underdog. At least you're dog. Turns me up live. You know what quality feels like. You can see it in the way a fabric moves. Recognize it in a flawless fit and appreciate it in the details that make our styles unique. That kind of quality doesn't happen by accident. It happens with imagination, creativity and intention. At Coldwater Creek, it's the design standard we've honored for over 40 years. Our rich mountain heritage has shaped how we think about clothing from the very beginning with a commitment to quality that never quits.

3:05Exceptional fabrics. Consider design. Silhouettes we've made our own. The signature touches that set each piece apart and styles that are distinctively Coldwater Creek. For a wardrobe you can count on season after season. Visit coldwatercreek.com. Shop new arrivals and save 15% on purchases $75 or more with code iHeart. Dave Roberts here. There you are surrounded by fans, sharing wings, sharing drinks, high-fiving random strangers. Everybody remembers the game. Nobody remembers the guy coughing behind you until a few days later. At 2am you wake up with the fever and your throats on fire. Now what? Urgent care, clothes, ER, slam, telehealth, maybe, but the pharmacies close. You needed a medical emergency kit. These aren't first aid kits. They contain essential prescriptions used for over 30 common conditions. Scientists and ear infection, UTIs, stomach bug, travelers diarrhea, and more. On hand before you need them. Use your doctor-developed guidebook to select the right prescription

4:10or call their telemedicine doctor standing by. It's like an urgent care and drugstore at home. When you're sick, traveling, or stranded, you'll wish you ordered a medical emergency kit. Order online in minutes and it's shipped to your door and say $45 with my promo code blue at urgentcarekit.com slash blue. That's promo code blue at urgentcarekit.com slash blue. What is up, fellow sickles? I am Dan Favalli coming at you with the one the only the certified fan tab you ask. Mr. Grant Hughes, its MBA offseason grades time. We do not rush to get these out. We wait for the offseason to fly out. Everything's like Jalen Duren to sign his car. Oh wait, no, you didn't. Well, we wait as long as we could. We're beginning with the central division offseason grades. Grant, how the heck are you doing? I am ready to properly grade instead of regrading our grades because we did that and it was a very helpful exercise. We're on to fresh grades now. I'm sure all of them because we were so rigorous in figuring out how to properly

5:14regrade. These are all going to, I don't think we're going to have to change anything. That's the hope, right? We not to not learn anything. I feel like that's pretty good. I for one think that we're just going to be a, we're going to get a hundred percent hit rate on where we're at. We're both probably going to have the same grade for everybody. I'm interested to see actually how we, how close we end up being with our grades for these. Yeah, you may just be because this is the first division we're recording, but I am very prepared to be talked up and down. I told you that before we started, I, I, some of these are tough. Can you take us through how we go about grading off seasons and also like a little bit of what makes them different from when we go back and do the, the regrades? Yeah. So, I mean, there are some common elements, the first of which we have to, we're obligated to mention is that a C is average. It's not a bad grade. We think you did fine if you got to see anything above or below that. We'll probably have more to say. In general, we're looking at the process here of what a team did this past, this past slash ongoing offseason in some cases. So, that starts with us kind of trying to figure out what the goal is here. And I will

6:19say it's harder now to sort of one land on what the goal is and to establish what the goal should be because the lottery odds are different. And kind of being mediocre doesn't hurt you the way that it used to being in the middle is not necessarily the most damning thing you can say about a team. And it was for quite a while. So, that has complicated some of my thinking. That said, we're looking at what we think the team's trying to do. We're also going to throw in, do we think what this team is trying to do? Is that the right thing? Is that what we would do? That's something we kind of learned in the regrade process is we do need to be more, I think, vocal about whether we agree with the direction or not. And then we're just going to get the moves they made, the values that they got in their signings, their trades, their picks, whatever, their hirings, their firings, or just evaluating those in so far as they serve the goals that we think this team has or they do a disservice to those goals. So, pretty straightforward. I think that's everything here.

7:23Anything you want to add before we get started? I think you might have mentioned to this, but it is relative to even if we think we're identifying the primary objective correctly, it is in terms of what's relatively available to them. What assets that they have to go out and get things done. Yeah, the resources that they have available. I think that's a big one where it's easy to sit here and say, we don't like that they did X, but we do need to kind of point to if we disagree with it. Why don't we like it? Is it because we thought there was a viable alternative or we just think they would have been better off doing nothing? And with respect. Yeah, sorry, you're better at this than I am, but with respect to what they could have done, we'll address that I think where it's particularly relevant. But in general, I always am kind of more reluctant to say they should have done, they should have gone down this path and done these two or three things instead of what they actually did. That's just seems trickier to me and more speculative, but sometimes you do need that's going to come up maybe not this division, but at some point it will come up. I think it's easier to say that or harp

8:28on that when a team is shedding a player, whether they traded them or letting them walk and free agency, that's what they should have kept him. It's easier to go down that path. The other thing is to an apologies if you mentioned to this. I was busy time stamping something else, but when it comes to the draft specifically, that doesn't factor into our grades too much. If Granarai feel very strongly about how well or poorly we think a team did on a pick, we will note as much, but just only having summer league is a sample when we're doing this. Those I typically view as selections, whereas well, it might bump up their regrade or maybe it'll detract from their regrade because it turns out they made the wrong selection, but they can't factor into heavily right here. And also did we mention C is average? Don't get me by C's. That's the first thing I mentioned. Okay. Very important. So we're just going to give C's across the board here. I'll throw the transactions up on screen for anyone who's watching. We're not going to go through every single one that we've done in years past. We want to do the greatest hits. So we begin with you want to

9:31go off a bed at least, right? Of course. We'll probably show. All right. We begin with the Chicago Bulls. Are you able to take us through some of their biggest hits from the offseason? Yeah. The big moves kind of came right at the top where Bryson Graham is now the new executive vice president of basketball ops, Thiago Splitter is the new head coach that's replacing Archerus Carnosovus and Billy Donovan respectively. So new leadership, new coach, I think everybody, maybe more so for the executive suite than the coaching situation is happy to see that change. The biggest things, and again, you can see this if you're watching the more detailed stuff, Caleb Wilson, the picket number four, Dail and Swain at 15. Zach Collins, that's just going by the dollar amount spent, gets two years and 17 million with a team option on the second. Even bigger than that, Norm Powell gets two years and 44.1. There's a team option on the second year of that. Is there anything else that you, I guess some of their subtractions, Nicole Vuchovich is gone, Colin Sexton's gone, Nick Richards, I don't know if he

10:33signed anywhere yet as we're recording this, but he's not on the bulls. He's on Miami. Okay, Miami got him. And Gershawney obviously also is unsigned. A couple smaller second round type things, but that's really the gist of it here. My first instinct was to go positive on the grade because of the changeup at the top. It just felt like that was the constant with the bulls that we didn't like so much was just the decision making and the lack of ambition and the direction and stuff. This is, again, this is a devil you don't know thing, but we knew the previous devil pretty well, and we didn't like it. So I start with leaning positively because of the change in the executive suite. Is that where you are as well? Yes. And also because even if you don't necessarily agree with how they used their flexibility, they didn't do anything that was overwhelmingly damaging that you can look back and say, this is really going to set them back. I know the bar is low, but the,

11:34this is an organizational grade. And so we're factoring in ownership here and just know like you had, what was it? Michael Reinsdorf basically came out and apologized to bulls fans for what has happened. Look, they were just early. This is the new lottery format has set up for the bulls of the past however many years. But in all seriousness, I agree with you there, but what I struggle with is could they have done more with their flexibility or do you agree with how they went about like the two big ones are they took in Nicholas Clackston and then they signed Norman Powell who provide shooting. It's a team option. So it's a harmless deal. You could look at him and Nicholas Clackston players they plan to reflip at the same time. It's I don't necessarily understand what this team's vision is now and maybe we shouldn't when we're just so early into the pricing Graham era. They they have Caleb Wilson. They have modest Buzellis. But like Josh Giddy still being on this team that's not surprising. I'm not going to dig them for that, but I don't understand necessarily what the front office is attempting to do here long term just yet. And I think that's worth a little bit

12:39of a dimmarry. A little bit. I would say I really like the use of resources on Powell. Just the one guarantee you're on the hook for one year. He's very tradable. That team option I think is palatable makes him palatable for like many different kinds of teams. So he can kind of be salary relief or he can be a chip that a contender want. You know, so that's great. I'm less high on the Clackston get I sort of understand it. I mean, I think he's a good player. I don't know where I'd rank him among starting centers in the league. It's probably right around the middle or more towards 20 something like that. But at his number, I think he's fine. There's a possibility that he outplays at least this year that that contract. So I more so with Powell than him. I like the use of their resources. I would agree that that to use Powell specifically as the example. It's kind of hard to tell what the what the intentions are here. But but I do think we have gotten better. Or at least we're making it a point to say it's okay if it's not clear what your intentions are.

13:44As long as you maintain the ability to decide on those and you have some outs or you have some flexibility, I think the Powell contract is just that that's what that is. So I can they can use that to sort of choose their direction midstream if they need to. I would push back on the one thing with Powell that you're not saying it, but a lot of people think well, that could be easily rerouted for a first round pick in the middle of the season. Norin Powell's been traded a bunch of times. I don't think he's ever net a single first round pick until one now is he's entering deeper into his 30s. I would I don't know. Yeah. I think that's fair. Would you agree that he could be traded for positive value? For sure. Even with he's kind of slowed down over the past second half seasons. The Nick Clarkson one. I might be a little bit higher on the flyer than you, but I did wonder could they have not gotten compensated more for that. My two sticking points though for the offseason. Does that Collins contract why? Yeah. You can't stay healthy. I guess they're that desperate at the five. You have claxed in and jail and Smith there. Maybe they don't want to get to Caleb Wilson Buzellis like four or five combinations. And then I don't this is a small thing, but it's not.

14:50You're really going to trade a second round pick for cash considerations when you're one of the the reset. Like why not just take a flyer on somebody. Sure. Sure. Um, Caleb Wilson reports are good looking pretty good. In summary, don't know if you heard, but he shoots threes and he's a maniacal competitor and Kevin Garnett's name is getting thrown out a lot. I acknowledge all that easy pick. He was the no brainer F4. So could you for me? I'm as a from from a results perspective when we readdress this if he becomes Kevin Garnett, guess what? This grade's going to get a little higher in a regrade scenario, but there was just nobody else you were realistically going to take there. So just that sorry that is a C that's that is the pick you should have made and they made it. But it also does insulate them if he doesn't play well this season when we're going to regrades. Who out where they really going to take Keaton Wogler and Michael Brown Jr. So it's they had you would probably prefer just have the number one pick and get AJ DeBanzo or choose between him and Darren

15:52Peterson or make the case of well, should we have taken cam Booser, but they had the easiest decision of the first round, I think, was being in fourth. There were four consensus star prospects and they got the one who was left. Yeah. Anything else you want to give a great. So we don't know each other's grades by the way. So can I can I tell you what I have them at right now and you can try to talk me up or down, but the way we've discussed this, I think we're going to come in pretty close. Yeah, hit me. I have a B and it's it's mostly based on I like the change over of the executives and I think the Powell and Clackston deals make a lot of sense to me. I went B minus because of to like I said, the identity thing, the second round pick for cash considerations at college contract and why I recognize that they did change the leadership. I can even go see plus because as well, this was kind for any other organization. This would have been an obvious decision to make. And even with the coaching higher and Thiago splitter, they wanted Billy Donovan to stay and he was just like, I'm out. Thanks. Thanks for no thanks. Yeah. So I want B minus. I don't think you

16:54could talk me up from there. I think you'd have an easier time talking me down from a B minus. All right. You can't talk me down. I'm a rock. I can't be negotiated. I can't be reasoned with. We're up to the Cleveland Cavaliers. I can take us through what they did. They did a whole bunch of stuff. This is great. This honestly matters. They traded number 29 Alex Carabin to Sacramento for number 34 Malik Thomas and a 2032 second round pick. They then signed a four year deal with three guaranteed years using the second round exception averages out to 1.3% of the salary cap. Donna Mitchell got the full four year max extension player option at the end of it. His age 34 season in 2030, 2031. That given how the salary cap is growing averages out to about 36.3% of the cap for the life of the deal. They signed Mario has only had a one year minimum deal. Doesn't guarantee in total. Vempr 15. That's actually made a lot of headlines for people. Some believe he's going to be part of a of the rotation. Now it's part of a five team trade. They traded Max Drew's Dennis Schroeder and a 2031 unprotected first round pick for Peyton Watson and Cam Whitmore.

18:00Cam Whitmore has since been waived and stretched and ruined podcast project that we had for you. So shout out to that. He'll be $1.8 million in dead money on the books to the next three years in Cleveland. The bigger thing though is the cab signed Peyton Watson to a four year 88 million dollar deal as part of this trade. It has a 2029 2030 player option, which would be Peyton Watson's age 27 season. And this contract averages out to 12.3% of the cap and a medium basically immediately following that they resigned James are into a three year 97 million dollar contract. Dude keeps getting paid has a player option in the final season, 2028 29. That's his age 39 season. My God. And that this comes up to about 18.6% of the cap. I'm not going to lie. Seeing that number maybe feel a little bit better about James aren't basically getting nine figures again. And it's I know I'm going through everything here, but he actually might matter because of the way the team's guard rotation or benches working. They did pick up crank Porter juniors team option. Uh,

19:03where do you want to stay? Didn't get LeBron? Is that you? Would you? Can I ask you a question? Let's say it was either or as the Cavaliers for what they needed. Would you have rather had LeBron or Peyton Watson? Is the answer just LeBron because he's LeBron and was signed for the minimum or and you've hold onto that pick. Yeah. Yeah. Probably LeBron, but that was pretty clearly out of the they didn't they didn't make a decision on that. I think they would have done that if they could have. I'll ask you a question. Oh, let's maybe maybe a question will emerge as I try to frame this. The Cavaliers won. What was it? 64 games two years ago. They made the conference finals last year. They were there for just a just a bit and and we're eliminated. Is this how a team that is close to being a championship contender should behave in the off season? By which I mean throwing a whole ton of money at Donovan Mitchell, spending its few remaining

20:06resources and sacrificing depth for a player in Watson that might be the missing piece and just biting, you know, gritting their teeth and paying James Hardin because that's all been part of this. You know, him him opting out and allowing some flexibility for a moment. Is this how you would want them to behave? Forget the five year time horizon. Is this a reasonable way to act for where the Cavs are? Yeah. I think it's how they should be expected to act. And if you're going to quibble over what they did, it's not Peyton Watson who is the closest we loved the Deont Andre Hunter trade way back when, but he is Peyton Watson is objectively the closest they have come to actualizing the ideal just like fifth member of that core. The things I would quibble over are because you have negotiated with Donovan Mitchell. Is this needed to be a no brain or max situation, the current cap climate? The James Hardin number feels steep, especially given what just happened in the playoffs at the same time he did wait around for you to go about your LeBron and Peyton Watson business. I am a little worried and I'm about after we do this, I will be recording

21:12Cavaliers look ahead with the chase down Justin Rowan. This team's death makes me uneasy now because it wasn't just Max Drew's Dennis Schroeder was okay. Keon Ellis is in Brooklyn and Dean Wade is now in Philadelphia. So that's all part of the opportunity cost along with the first round pick. That being said, wouldn't you agree that this is how I mean the team on the other end of the paint one of the teams on the other end of the Peyton Watson trade decidedly not acting like a contender should. And so I appreciate what the Cavaliers are doing more as a team that just made the conference finals, but we don't look at them as a team where they just won the conference finals and as you said 64 164 games two seasons ago when they have an all NBA player in Donovan Mitchell and James Hardin for all his flaws. The dude whoops plays a ton of games every single year. They have Evan Mowgli. They have like this is this is what you're supposed to do. Maybe it blows up in their face, but this is how you are supposed to transact as a team that you're looking at the east. It's a jumble of probably off rip. How many squads do you think can talk themselves into we could

22:17win the conference right now seven. I was that was the first it might be more than that. It might really might be more than that. That's the minimum number I would accept. And so I applaud them for there's risk involved. There's downside and I don't like the Donovan Mitchell contract. I actually think that's a bigger I don't want to miss, but that's a bigger hang up than what they gave James Hardin. That being said, I think the Cavaliers their highest end outcome is like it's higher than it was last season. Like this is just what Peyton Watson does. I don't know how much I buy into the ball handling on ball stuff, especially with this team, but just to help defense. Even the point of attack defense on ball defense relative to what they had. I think that this him next to Evan Mobile or Jared Allen and what big lineup just makes a ton of sense here. Yeah, I think it's like trying to think of a good analogy here that like encompasses the loss of depth is real. But what do we complain about with the Cavs over so many post seasons? It's just like you cycled between

23:17Wade and Struse and Schroeder and Isaac Acoro and I'm sure I'm forgetting two or three other guys. It's like none of them were quite good enough to fill that spot. And in Watson, I think maybe you got that guy. So you know what? Yeah, that comes with the risk of like you're more susceptible to injury now and there's the downside is lower and all that other stuff. It's almost like you're here it is. It's like you're trying to escape orbit or like the atmosphere on like a rocket ship. And the only way you're going to climb higher is to like start cutting weight, like start throwing stuff out the sides because that's the only way you're going to get all the way out to where you want to get. Otherwise, you're going to level out and maybe start hitting down like it's risky. You might need some of that stuff, but there's a small chance that it really might work. And that's kind of the prism through which I'm viewing this Cavs teams. We we total I think we are in lockstep here where really, really liking what Cleveland did is not to say it is without huge risk both in terms of like down, you know, years away with Mitchell and Harden or even this year with

24:22Harden just falling apart potentially in the lack of depth. This we can't just kill the nuggets and whatever other team you want to throw in there for being cheap and unambitious when you have a chance to go for it and then not reward the Cavs for doing exactly what we want all those teams in that position to do. It's kind of the they're the analog for the Timberwolves where it's maybe you don't love the Lamello ball fit and you recognize the downside or even bringing in Jonathan Cummings and the hoops they had to jump through to do that by trading Josh Green at the same time it's they clearly weren't going to be disperse of the thunder as previously constructed. Are they going to do it now? We don't know, but it's something different and they made the big swing. It's it's it's I always throw this out there like it's really, really hard to get to a place where you're as good as the Cavs have been for several seasons now. And if you can get there, that's when you're like risk risk reward calculus just kind of has to change and you just have to sell out for the piece or pieces that might you know tip you into you guess what you're in the finals

25:28now like that that's that's where they are and they it would be a disappointment if they just went to the conference finals again and got beat right because they've done that and and you just you got to you got to accept the risk at this at this stage of your sort of competitive cycle. And I think I applaud him for for for doing it. So why and there's also the element of let's say you don't like the Peyton Watson deal or what they've done with their roster. What was the alternative path for them was probably doing nothing or like I would argue that Peyton Watson was the best possible wing they could have gotten for what in the end they they gave up. I don't know like who who's the name out there that you would have said oh they should have gone out and got would you a per let's say you could have gotten him for cheaper would you have preferred to like give up less and have herb Jones on the human Peyton Watson Peyton Watson at least has that upside of yeah got let's focus on the offensive stuff with him where it's I'm skeptical of beyond ballwork that he did in January at the same time like the Cavs do might have room to plummet it's James Harden's

26:32not going to play every minute of the court the Cavs are clearly trying to get away from Don and Mitchell being the lead playmaker on the team and they just don't have a bunch of proven but like Dennis Schroeder's gone you might play Malik Thomas or Craig Porter Jr. retirees proctor but that's not guaranteed they're going to be in front of like that they're going to be guys you're going to give on ball reps to Evan Mobile of course that's a big variable here so just kind of tap like Peyton Watson's 23 is the other thing here too. And so you're very much paying him on a on a projection rather than just what he's done this far but I think we've seen flashes enough and he's improved basically year over year and even look I'm hesitant to sent site anything coming out of the Michael Porter Jr. podcast whatever that's called the fact that he goes on that show maybe questionable decision making some of the things he was saying about how Michael Malone ripped into him as a rookie for not knowing a play and how he was angry and on the verge of tears in the moment but then it was like that insured I'm ready and I'm going back and appreciating that I look at that and say this dude's hyperculturable too and by the way I

27:32don't believe for a minute that he was like he could have played in the playoffs and then didn't but like that just when you're hearing stuff like that anecdotes like that so I I'm with you I applaud it's not it's not going to be a perfect reign for me because I think there are things that they could have done differently and it's namely the Donovan Mitchell thing but even they might have hit the fact that we can even sit there and say they just fleece the kings by training number like number 20 you know what I mean like yeah yeah well if not that's not that hard this is a b plus for me and and the reason it's not hires is the Mitchell commitment and the hard and contract even at 18 point whatever percent of the cap and maybe I just framed like that versus not a course of course I feel better than just thinking of basically a hundred million dollars for guaranteed for three years for this guy but I get it I think you again it's just you kind of had to do all this for what I think maybe Mitchell was gonna I don't know the Mitchell part is hard to justify especially when jailing Brown is getting traded for poor value on sort of a similar

28:35deal b plus for me I came up b plus as well and so it'll be interesting this will be an interesting regrade too this is one of the ones I'm caught right now if we go back and there's some major changes even if it's upward I mean going from b plus to an a would it would be a monster accomplishment but this is one that I could see the four the floor falling out from beneath them this is the moment baby this is the moment we separate the dogs from the boys and if you ask me I only got one question do you got that dog in you because it's never about the winners of the losers but it is about the difference between those brave enough to put some action on the game and those who just want to watch from the sidelines eating off brand pizza rolls so sit down locking those picks and trust that dog in you underdog and let your dog terms may apply you know what quality feels like you can see it in the way a fabric moves recognize it in a flawless fit and appreciate it in the details that make our styles unique that kind of quality doesn't happen

29:40by accident it happens with imagination creativity and intention at cold water creek it's the design standard we've honored for over 40 years our rich mountain heritage has shaped how we think about clothing from the very beginning with a commitment to quality that never quits exceptional fabrics considered design silhouettes we've made our own the signature touches that set each piece apart and styles that are distinctively cold water creek for a wardrobe you can count on season after season visit coldwater creek dot com shop new arrivals and save 15% on purchases $75 or more with code i heart Dave Roberts here there you are surrounded by fans sharing wings sharing drinks high-fiving random strangers everybody remembers the game nobody remembers the guy coughing behind you until a few days later at 2 a.m you wake up with the fever and your throats on fire now what

30:42urgent care close ER slam telehealth maybe but the pharmacies close you needed a medical emergency kit these aren't first aid kits they contain essential prescriptions used for over 30 common conditions sinus and ear infection uti stomach bug travelers diarrhea and more on hand before you need them use your doctor develop guidebook to select the right prescription or call their telemedicine doctor standing by it's like an urgent care and drugstore at home when you're sick traveling stranded you wish you ordered a medical emergency kit order online in minutes and it's shipped to your door and say forty five dollars with my promo code blue at urgent care kit dot com slash blue that's promo code blue at urgent care kit dot com slash blue what's up everybody if you're listening to this or watching this could I interest you in getting some bonus content some ad free content if only there were away Dan could you could you tell me is it possible could it be done there is a way go to patreon dot com slash hardwood nox mba you can get this episode ad free as well

31:47as two bonus episodes per month and since we are previewing the season for every single mba team we do have extended versions of our team look at as we're doing a behind the paywall segment with every single one of our guests which have been a blast so far so that's patreon dot com slash hardwood nox mba where you can also get other perks like discounted merch you get access to our discord and in passionate versions of grant behind the paywall like some of the episodes that have come out behind the paywall grant is in rare form do you really want to miss any of that I know I don't I'm just glad you didn't say there's no way because that would have been a waste of our time and now back to the show uh did you want to talk about the Detroit pistons yeah I think you have to start this conversation with what they have not done yet and send us our Thompson got extended to start Thompson I mean you know his brother just got extended so I assume it's a matching deal for twin reasons jill and duren is on sign uh that's gonna resolve sooner than later hopefully not before you hear this but as it stands now the reporting is that duren essentially wants 40 a year

32:52and the pistons want 35 a year and that is close enough to suggest that this will get done and we're not in a qualifying offer situation as unreal as that always has seemed we just still even though even though we do sort of already have like the rough parameters of what this contract is going to be I just we can't consider it yet so uh I'm not going to go incomplete here we'll we'll still we'll still give a num give a letter um the what did I what do I want to start with other than that so broadly they the pistons added significant spacing they brought in Isaiah Joe they uh kind of swapped not directly but in terms of like what their jobs will be to buy his Harris for John Collins uh Gary Harris is here Torian Prince just a bunch of 40% three point shooters are joining this roster Kevin Herder is also back former 40% three point shooter three years for 27 million obviously Dennis Jenkins had his team option picked up but that was a no-brainer there the move

33:55that will get an A plus from you Javante green back on a minimum I oh they also yeah with this is who left as part of this deal that brought in John Collins and Prince and Harris Marcus Assert gone Isaiah Stewart gone carousel vert gone um I think that no extension for us our Thompson that is actually something to to discuss here anything I miss that you want to add to before we get into sort of the I because I have a root concern with this offseason I bet I'm sure you share it because we've talked about it um actually I don't think that I do as much as you will but what I will say is the you just calling Kevin Herder for 40% three point shooter is hysterical I actually I know you said it's not going to be an incomplete and I think this is one of those situations where yeah it shouldn't be an incomplete because I actually agree the way that restricted for agency is set up that what they're doing with Javante earners we are grading them right now is A plus stuff from yeah I'm not in I'm not pro let's repress players earning potential but this is what's

34:56agreed to in the CBA this is our strategic for agency works he has no leverage I saw Dan Feldman in the daily dunks had the stat that nobody who is qualified for super max eligibility hasn't gotten it in some form and by meaning it in some form not that they've gotten the full super max but they've gotten more than the traditional max the pistons aren't even offering jalen duren his traditional max which again I think is the right move it's not about we don't need to just remember jalen duren from who he was in the playoffs but the pistons are exerting leverage that what's collectively bargained has given them and so as of right now and I would argue they're offer if I'm being brutally honest here I still think it's too high for jalen duren yeah that's that's where I'd be at with it and so but what they're doing refusing to like come up to what he wants for z1 45 you said is the number of 40 but it's more than there more than 35 which I think is where they're reported to be at just as a cookie cutter baseline them not even giving him

36:00his regular 25% max I think is a wise move by them and so that right now is factoring into migraine now if it comes back that they moved up or whatever they signed up to looks like a bad deal we'll address that next offseason is there any sort of on the Caleb Wilson being the no brainer number four pick for the bulls so no real credit there does any of that kind of thinking should any of that kind of thinking affect our take on the duren negotiations because this is obviously how you should treat restricted free agency especially when nobody has the money to make a deal for him and he just bombed in the playoffs like is there do you get what I'm saying I just this just now occurs to me because like yeah of course you should handle it this way I guess the fact that a lot of teams have not in the recent past right makes this still like a praise worthy approach it's a vant guard where it feels like this is the first offseason in which every team has gotten the memo because even the nuggets tried to play hardball with Peyton Watson yeah

37:01the jazz the handling of Walker Kessler look at what happened we've been the clipers just pulled like Matthew is qualifying offer and let him go to the pelicans for some reason so I still think it's new enough to where what do you think it's not do you think it's not novel enough it just occurred to me I don't know that's why I wanted your take on it I think I think I'm still going to give a lot of credit for the hardball approach I do think though maybe going forward we will really knock teams for not taking the hardball approach and then just view any team that does play things this way as well that's a C decision because of course of course you should use the leverage you have okay so here's where I think we're going to disagree then I don't think the pistons did anything to address the glaring weakness that everybody thought they should which is secondary creation and Hunter Patterson for the athletic recently had a piece out about how the pistons are all growing about a Sartons increased share of on ball reps and now that's going to free upcade cutting him for off ball stuff great in theory I'm going to need to see a

38:01defense tree to Sartonson like a real threat at some point before I put any weight to that sort of thing I think this is a huge miss by mistaking the addition of a bunch of three point shooters for someone that can pass dribble and shoot effectively in a way that weaponizes Cade cutting him off the ball and gives you somebody besides Danis Jenkins to run a play in a against a playoff defense I think the pistons were way too predictable way too easy to guard Cade cutting him's shoulder to load that was absurd and still was awesome because he's great but I don't think the pistons did anything to shore up this this is like this is sort of like the magic you're not doing enough to address their offensive flaws the last couple of seasons prior to the bayonetrade but this is almost more egregious because it's so obvious that they need another playmaker and I really don't think adding a bunch of pretty one-dimensional three point shooters it to me it's not I get the theory of more space right okay Cade cutting him will have

39:07an easier job you can't cheat off of that it the playmaking load is still too heavy so my major criticism is you just didn't address the thing you absolutely had to address in the way that I would have addressed it what do you what do you say to that how did you want them to address it you got to get a point someone that can dribble I like I instead like this is this is where it's tricky right because it's like well what are the other options I don't know just name somebody that can make a play even if they're not a starter that you that you could have used your resources on instead of John Collins instead of Harris and Prince and guys that like it's it's pretty easy for me to imagine Harris and Prince just getting played off the floor in games that matter and Collins let's see who knows right Isaiah Joe I think has a real role but he's a bench player and he's not a playmaker so I don't have the guy for you that they should have gone out and gotten I'm just saying it should have been their number one priority and it doesn't seem like it was I think if the criticism is they should have tried to take a swing on because even what you're

40:09describing is not trade Murphy which is the name that was mentioned no I want someone that's going to run a pick and roll or or or or get into the paint and spray the ball out that that's what I want you think maybe that the clubbers might make dareys go on and available now that they're out 30 first round picks so I would enjoy it I think that's a fair criticism I just struggle to identify the up like could they have signed a Colin Sexton could they have done something along those lines like maybe I just don't know what the trade opportunity is that they would have missed out on where I do think we diverge the most though because if that opportunity was out there there a team that I think you just won 60 games you should be in all in mode the fact that they haven't extended a star Thompson I think helps me believe that they're trying to keep their options open a little bit him as a secondary ballhand where I don't hate with this additional spacing if you look last year Kade Cunningham's teammates ranked the 36% tile of off ball gravity and the 13th percentile of catching shoot three point shot making so I get what you're saying about John Collins

41:11not being dynamic Isaiah Joe I think he said dynamic he could he could set screens he could fly around the court Duncan Robinson is still here I think that the extra spacing that you can get to him line ups where even I say a Stewart that trade was I get sorry can I could I just like I don't so you're you have to play Cunningham Thompson and Durin which they did last year and the other two guys were very often Duncan Robinson and Tobias Harris so now if those two guys are Isaiah Joe and John Collins what how is the spacing improved it's yeah Tobias Harris is scared to shoot threes John Collins is not I would say John Collins is a better shooter than Tobias Harris you want someone to could dribble himself create and then the other thing here too is that looking at some of the secondary line ups of last year that's where you want it even if you wanted to stagger Durin and a star Thompson you run into kind of similar issues with yeah Isaiah Stewart stretches in theory but John Collins is going to take way more threes or Paul Reed is going to be more dynamic offensive leave in Isaiah Stewart

42:14and so I'm open to the idea of all right we'll see what a star Thompson could do with more ball handling reps and what what I would call better spacing that logic from my end I think begins to fall apart if they turn around and oh we paid Durin what I believe is too much money or now we know Durin's numbers we went ahead and extended a star Thompson at a number that I disagree with because I still view this as they're trying to get a feel for what a star Thompson can be which I think is still pretty fair now if you're trying to pressure me into making a call of would you've traded a star Thompson or gone this route I don't know who the returning player is but if you could have moved a star Thompson for a trade Murphy you're probably getting less dribbling there definitely less defense but that's like worth a discussion so I don't have as big of a I could see how this offseason would be unspectacular if you were thinking that they needed or we're going to make this huge upgrade I guess I just don't see the opportunity and this is coming is I hammer them with the trade deadline for not doing more but that was also in the vein of not just more secondary

43:16creation like get more shooting onto this roster yeah I just I'm not convinced that other than the secondary lineups where maybe you can put three or four shooters out there that the spacing will be like I like I don't think I think defense is treated by as Harris is a bigger three point threat than John Collins Harris shot more threes per 36 last year than Collins did now Collins hit 40 percent so yeah I you know if if defense is care about him a little more than maybe that makes the difference I I will be wrong here if a star Thompson makes a significantly as an offensive player which is possible right which is totally possible there there's a scenario where he can be trusted with like legitimate secondary creation responsibilities and even a bunch more on ball stuff that allows Kate Cunningham to be off it and then you're just you're still he still isn't going to ever be guarded honestly so saying saying you need to put the ball in his hands more is kind of a no

44:17shit because he has zero value off of it I just he need that he needs to get so much better and I will not foreclose the possibility that that could happen and and you're right what I should have done is come with like a list of a half dozen guys that I would have wanted the pistons to trade for or what it like where were they on Lamello or what you've Darius Garland's name you mentioned his name sure let's get somebody there Brian Collins would be another Brian Collins Jenkins but he's not the answer it's just yeah I think this is to me and I might just be looking at this incorrectly that's more of a okay we're 15 20 games into the season this isn't working now other teams know who they are is Ryan Rollins more available is Darius Garland more available is could you get tied your home is he healthy in Memphis or even Scotty Pippin Jr. at this point I think where I'm just struggling with is I don't know what the opportunity was that I think they passed on that's fair I guess I'm I'm I'm focused more on what they didn't do than why they didn't do it and I think if I'm

45:20wrong here because I'm going to have a pretty low grade it'll be one because there were no opportunities or two because they're they're viewing it the way you are which is to say we'll get a chance you know mids by the deadline to address this it's not it's not that we don't think it's a problem it's that we didn't see the solution in the offseason which is which is fair but I'm doing an offseason grade so I'm gonna I'm gonna knock them what did you give this is a D plus I think I think you've got a fund on the floor and I didn't see you address it that's that's really and I love the Duran situation and I think they're wise not to extend a star but that that's a pretty it's a very like number one on the list did not get touched in my opinion you might have talked me down a little bit I had a B minus I'm gonna go to a C plus now for them down 21 just over six minutes this is the moment baby this is the moment we separate the dogs from the boys and if you ask me I only got one question do you got that dog in you because it's never about the winners of the losers but it is about the difference between those brave enough to put some action on the game

46:21and those who just want to watch from the sidelines eating off brand pizza rolls so sit down locking those picks and trust that dog in you underdog unleash your dog terms may have lie you know what quality feels like you can see it in the way a fabric moves recognize it in a flawless fit and appreciate it in the details that make our styles unique that kind of quality doesn't happen by accident it happens with imagination creativity and intention at cold water creek it's the design standard we've honored for over 40 years our rich mountain heritage has shaped how we think about clothing from the very beginning with a commitment to quality that never quits exceptional fabrics considered design silhouettes we've made our own the signature touches that set each piece apart and styles that are distinctively cold water creek for a wardrobe you can count on season

47:22after season visit coldwater creek dot com shop new arrivals and save 15% on purchases $75 or more with code i heart Dave Roberts here there you are surrounded by fans sharing wings sharing drinks high-fiving random strangers everybody remembers the game nobody remembers the guy coughing behind you until a few days later at 2 a.m you wake up with the fever and your throats on fire now what urgent care close ER slam telehealth maybe but the pharmacies close you needed a medical emergency kit these aren't first aid kits they contain essential prescriptions used for over 30 common conditions sinus and ear infection uti stomach bug travelers diarrhea and more on hand before you need them use your doctor develop guidebook to select the right prescription or call their telemedicine doctor standing by it's like an urgent care and drugstore at home when you're sick traveling or stranded you wish you ordered a medical emergency kit order online in minutes and it's

48:24shipped to your door and say $45 with my promo code blue at urgent care kit dot com slash blue that's promo code blue at urgent care kit dot com slash blue so i i feel like because we actually differed i came off as thinking oh the the pistons hit on literally everything and like your point about losing the bias hairs even as a self-creator just someone who could dribble or breathe threat in the playoffs the dribble is a is a big one i also do wonder how much worse do you think their offseason looks because of the way that the eastern conference sort of reconfigured itself looking fully throughout the kawaii with the cash is did a little bit i mean because you it it it makes what i'm saying is a failure to address your main weakness a bigger problem because all these other teams got better and so now now that only matters more for you so yeah a little bit i i don't know how much i want to get into like well you saw all these other teams do all this stuff so you should have acted you somehow should have been riskier or something like that i think they

49:28should it's just this this team's need was just so clear i'm just going to keep saying the same thing that brings us to the indiana paecers who will be my team to take us through uh they didn't do much no they so i'll just go through everything they traded cam drones second round swaps and cash to Detroit for number 38 brin Smith um they picked up my cup order just uh my cup potters excuse me two point eight million dollar team option and then waived him he's now on the blazers they signed kelly bradginia to a two year seventeen million dollar deal that was part of their non tax mle which hardcaps them at the first apron uh no options on that deal and it's an average of four point nine percent of the salary cap they signed larry net's junior to a one year minimum deal guarantee quentin jackson's uh two point six million dollar salary waived tail and pina and they signed we won't mention this very team but they signed kobi brown and jane slosson uh who's turned some heads recently uh to two way contracts grants do you why where do you want to start with the pace where

50:30where to begin uh well here's here's here's some here's somewhere to begin would you have expected them to do just given how last season played out they traded for a vizzo botch who doesn't get to play barely at all for them but certainly doesn't play with tyrie's halbert and would you have expected them to do anything bigger were you looking at a seeachum extension or a haliburton extension they had like so they had some extension eligible guys no no i think i think they made their big move during the season and with the zubot's trade and they view that as we think we got a probably better but certainly different player in the center spot compared to miles turner and we were a torn Achilles in game seven away from being nbh amps and we don't need to do a whole lot of tinkering here because we're going to hit the ground running next year i don't know that's a hundred percent likely but i understand the logic and i understand the the sort of uh hesitation to spend a whole bunch more money because there can't be totally sure

51:34of that i'm talking about extensions so this is really just how do you feel about the kelly ubrei signing two for seventeen oh no i have some thoughts on something else really not are you mad no i'm just surprised i'm not mad at disappointment no i'm surprised why in the world would you go from micapotter to larry nats junior uh that's a good question my response is it doesn't matter because neither of those guys are all that good larry nats has always hurt and micapotter is interesting he's in micapotter it's a ridiculous three pointers last year so you bite your tongue sir my mate my other quam would be and i guess you can't get mad at them before they do it but they're about five point eight five point nine million dollars into the tax the any out of the pacers are not paying the luxury taxes and so i'm sitting here going all right well who's getting lopped off at some point is it getting rid of ben shepherd alone wouldn't be enough so i think

52:35we're looking at is it top-in mcconnell jarris walker or all making at least eight point five million i mean i guess if you wanted to criticize the pacers it's they they could have kind of bundled up a couple of those salaries and attached something and gotten somebody that you really felt like could be in the rotation all the time you know walker remains kind of like i don't know man both i swear to god we i'm still seeing the odd like jarris walker is going to break out from people that seem knowledgeable and credible you're welcome that is that you did you do that are you the one i my stance on him is still he's been way more intriguing offends and leave it i'm interested in underwhelming you sure yeah uh i also want to tell you right now he's injured but i am more interested in the long term potential of johnny firford even i am of jarris walker okay that's that's that's telling which is too i guess the way to ask this because i think the

53:36calorie bridge in your fit is interesting like the shooting can be a little wonky he doesn't get off the ball too quickly that's it the other thing did you come across the katelyn kupre thing that was she outlined basically the areas of the floor where kelly uber a junior has been effective are areas that are not going to be available to him in the in the pacers offense and it was much more granular and detailed and supported by numbers than what i just said but i can't get that out of my head now where it's like what kelly uber has got nowhere to be he's just in the way like that he's on the wrong side of the floor he's left handed this is never going to work so i like the deal for the the the years of dollars and he's a solid rotation guy but now i just in my head is well if she said it this is never going to work well man that's why i'm just inclined to think that i don't understand the evites is ubosh trade because i still don't like it in katelyn kupre is even just published something about how zubash will help the team and i'm still on the fence about it and that just makes me assume that i'm going to be wrong that'll be interesting to ask her about hopefully she'll comes back for the pacers look at this year this is a i don't know because i

54:38like with their resource of it because even the tax thing i can't to merit them unless they're going to give up fire value to duck to tax if kelly breed you you're doesn't work out you could probably just trade his contract into someone's tpe so what is this what is your offseason grade for this team it's a c it's fine it's it's it's i there's nothing terrible here there's nothing all that good here and they didn't do anything i don't know like if you have an a or an f i would love the law i know you don't but just anyone that is really high or really low i'd love to hear well they're getting the c- because from me just because i'm flying with the kelly breed you and your deal um maybe that should just be a c i'm not going to get over the micapotter for lary nans junior basically swap i'm gonna i know that seems like very end of rostory like bs but just given how j-huff did not treat the ball well last year and how they've been used to playing with a stretch big alongside tyrie's halbert in the past it just feels like that's a and lary nans junior is always just been the player who's better in theory than in practice mostly because of availability so yep i'm going c minus there our final team your well my yours looks a little hard we're not

55:43merged plugs supposed to be here before i recorded the box look ahead with tywin dish so uh it wasn't so i remember oh also i didn't rip the paces right here oh yeah like clean you're very it's you're very central division but i don't know where your allegiance is lie today it's you know i've i've always been someone who counts themselves right down the center so you're just a big fan of divisions you don't really care for teams i love the better if you win your division that's a take i'm gonna bring back now all right i'll get into this the books uh dan were you aware that uh the books are now is it three on tetacumbos short what yeah yeah yeah um they're all gone and it's a new era so the honest trade obviously bobby portus goes out with him tyler hero hyme hawk has junior coloe and caspers you cuchoanus come back with the number 13 pick that turned into eight a ment a ment or what are we saying a ment a nata ment yeah twenty thirty first round swap and also with you is that that's not

56:47immense be with you uh twenty thirty one first twenty thirty three first twenty thirty three second uh i mean the other big move is they draft a brady and berri is at number ten which everybody seems to agree based on summer league was at least five spots too late uh carousel vert is in with two seconds for torian prince and gary harris going out they let's see garyco's i'll just go through it this is our last team why not garyco sims uh two point eight million dollar player option picked up kevin port of junior uh picked up his five point moon five point four million dollar player option i'll come back to gary harris what else torian prince got a his team option three point eight million picked up uzman jang three years seventeen point three million dollars that's three point three percent of the cap there's a team option on the last year that one he'll be twenty five uh what else another nance peat nance got a two year minimum since we're on the subject of the honestly he's probably going to end up getting cut because they have so many uh players on their both yeah there's a lot of names here so uh lastly the gary train junior thing he got a four year sixty four million dollar deal that

57:48everybody observing seems to think is cap circumvention because he signed for the minimum last year it seems like this was agreed to because his play last season does not come anywhere near justifying over mid i guess it just call it mid level money um the league is investigating that deal so uh dan where do you want to start here i guess i guess the grade needs to begin with your feelings on the return package for yana's we've talked about this a few times but let's just let's just get it down here um if you're only grading the return package for yana's is that what kind of letter grade would you put on that you might get like a b plus or a minus because i don't know honestly it might be it like just a straight a because the argument because we can't ding them for not trading on a sooner unless we believed it really hurt their return and it doesn't seem that like a team like okay see your Houston or San Antonio like San Antonio was never even last thought she wasn't putting deal in Harper or Steph Castle on the table and so based off the return that they got i don't think waiting there's all the bad ju ju and how yana sends up leaving

58:52Milwaukee that doesn't look great you look at the return i don't know that they were getting much more especially when you look at how teams are viewing these player these superstar contracts as they're getting deeper into their 30s that yana's being extension eligible willing to sign with you is not as much as a home run as maybe it used to be and so i think with the pick equity they got some of the veterans they could reach specifically Tyler hero um the prospects they end up with like native men just being an interesting mold there i like Casper's yaka chowness i'm not a clear aware guy but that's certainly someone with a ton of potential hamehaka junior was in the six men a year discussion last year and then even just write down to they got off poppy portus and didn't take back no coli ovech yeah is that was that an a and they they were able to pit Boston in Miami i get where felt like it was only two teams really involved so they pit those two yeah against one another that's maybe maybe an a negotiation is going too strongly but that's at least a b plus right it has to be and i think it's hard to get quite that high initially because

59:56i don't know it's we've seen like what a kevinder ant when he went from Brooklyn to Houston was like what are there five first round assets there and oh doesman bayon there's four or five there's all you know this this was i guess four this you could call this four right number 13 unprotected and 31 and 33 and a 30 swap so there's four first rounders there plus also the players that team well i guess the Kevin and ranger is different because mcalbridge is ended up getting how many first round picks from the next but like in the doesman bane case the grisly didn't get anyone back yeah who was going to be worth first round equity the like in terms of between Tyler hero hi mayhaka junior caster shock a chionis and collie aware is that yeah is that the equivalent of two first round picks i think i think that's all around about way listening this is an a or an a minus trade now yes the the other positive i mean buries again we're not overweighting the draft because who knows but at the moment the consensus is that that was a great pick and Taylor Jenkins good hire i think i think you could think someone who probably had option i mean

1:01:01i guess looking at the teams like portland wouldn't have paid him but like your team that's rebuilding and you got Taylor Jenkins i think that's a that's a win it just really quickly on your brain buries point i would give that an a as of right now because there were other players in that discussion where like what if they had taken ben it starts or yeah i like yaksal lenda burg or a dimara because they like okay we have they do have collie aware but do they have their their like big man of the future yana stodbach was right there so i would call that like that's a pick i will grade right now because there were talked about alternatives on the table yeah the only reason i'm hesitating is because i need to see if it matters in a real game as i'm trying i'm trying not to overvalue the some if you if you believe that what he showed in summer league is remotely real then yeah that picks an a because there are a bunch of guys that summer league isn't all revealing are you trying to tell me that i mean you know what's the stat that carries over that are like three point point it's empty is like the only one not efficiency though that's what i know not efficiency um so that's all the big items i think unless there's anything you want to really get into the garritch

1:02:04your contract is that's that's an effort that's where i'm getting to like this should have been an a off season and it just can't be because but then like the garritch engineer is it's an absurd deal it's it's there's a reason it's being investigated it's like on its face it's just like you guys really think you're gonna get away from him you think Steve bomber you can't really do five or five argument that that's like a last off season thing really i don't know like i'm trying to defend it but what what i'm saying is the books ruin their chance at an a off season grade and they should feel very badly about that because that's all that matters is our opinion of how their off season was yeah look i is there a chance though that you have to you can't sit here and say based on what garritch engineer contributed last year that he was worth four years and 64 million dollars fully guaranteed that is an f contract right now now he's young enough and a level of player where you could look back and say maybe he performs closer up to the level of that

1:03:05deal that's a re grape thring but the other thing i keep coming back to is the fact that you couldn't even you're gonna now have to move or cut someone else because he's taking up a roster spot even if garritch engineer plays close to a sixteen million dollar a year player you don't want him on this roster taking away reps because he's not setting anybody up he's not making that like he'll help you as a spacer maybe as a defense of gambler still you didn't need to have him on this team and so he's either taking minutes or a spot away from just a younger flyer and that's why the deal is is so bad it doesn't submarine their off season grade but it's to me it's more than well they're not really going anywhere in their rebuilding so what's the problem and the other part of that is well what's the other problem he's not dead money but you already have 20 plus million dollars in dead money that's trying your books in addition to probably now what two to three contracts in kuzma i know he's expiring turner and then Trent that aren't very desirable so it's just it's a it's a terrible deal it's it again it's i understand why it exists i understand that

1:04:07maybe it's not huge them in the grand scheme of things but taking minutes and touches if not a spot away from just someone out from peat nance who books ran seem to love that's that's not nothing yeah i i just wonder like what would happen if the bucks had just said like we hey man we changed our mind and what scary trends recourse is he gonna go to the league and say hey look i had a deal that was a great like i don't think that's gonna happen is he gonna tell other free agents not to sign in Milwaukee which is what they're already doing not like i sure like what the real answer is word will get out that the bucks are not to be trusted and maybe agents steer their players away but like one does Gary Tringer have that kind of cloud like is that is he someone that's gonna be a real well look what you did to him i'm not going there like i just i don't know there's there seems there had to have been a way out of this and just don't agree to it in the first place also um can i give you a hot take on the bucks Dan i've just recently kind of come around to this i think they might be pretty good and that's not really

1:05:11hot in the warriors uh how many games of the warriors gonna win 23 24 oh yeah i'm for casting post step trade sorry okay sure yeah well what do they they might get three all stars for no i like look they get four real players for y'allness i think my turner is still a good starting sent like i'm fine with miles turner there like a j green we love Ryan Rollins all right that's like seven dudes that are all pretty good who knows and what if buries can play that's eight like like we're i just this could be so what if i said to you the bucks won 40 games this year which would be more than they won last year would you be shocked yes i would be because why 35 at the they're less shocked but i'd still be pretty i'd take the under if it's 34 and a half the thing that i don't know how this team really rebounds is gonna rebound all that well um do they have enough just primary creation i know that Tyler hero and brain buries and ryan ron's gonna do some stuff on the ball but do you have your floor general there i still just have questions and also

1:06:14even if they're better than expected i still think that they're going to look at well like some of these pieces are gonna be moved i mean like if Tyler heroes playing well does he finish the season i'm just i'm just road testing the idea that i might i might i might get behind the bucks a little bit this year to win more games next season than they did in yonis's final that would be well i'm kind of i'm just i'm just like putting feelers out i'm not fully committed but i i'm i'm open to it so what's your grade on this team is a b plus everything's great except the trend junior deal they can't get an aversion of an a for that reason yeah i'll go b plus as well i mean the brain buries thing helps like in addition to the yonis return helps uplift it a lot so solid off season under the circumstances from them uh you have anything else or you ready to get out of here i just i i want to extend a a true and sincere thanks to you for always remembering to put up the patreon web address on the screen as i'm doing the outro because i always scramble for the notes the sticky note app on one of my screens here because i never remember

1:07:16why can't it's like a mental block i can't remember the order of how to read you don't want to support the show which you co-host for some reason i don't really want to i desperately want to it's just there's some there's a hole in my brain and i want to say hardwood knocks nba.com's live page i just don't the correct address which dan is gracious enough to indulge my stupid brain with by putting it on the screen is patreon.com slash hardwood knocks nba that's a real thank you by the way because i was against grandma that's the best way to support the show uh if you join up that way you're getting too free up to to bonus episodes every month add free content all of the episodes will be add free which i very much appreciate as a as a hater of ads although keeps monstering us everybody uh discount on merch which we're sporting uh for your viewing pleasure here if you're listening sorry you can't see it you can listen to our shirts i guess uh you'll get discounts on that stuff there access to our discord links for that in the youtube and podcast description miss early episode releases all that stuff it's really around midnight which is like uh hours

1:08:18sometimes even sooner and the other thing just to plug the extended portion of the team by team look at it's where we have a behind the paywall segment with every single one of our guests which has been a bit of reload i have eight in the books i think they've all been yeah it's it's good stuff it's where you ask all the guests who they voted for and why right is that is that where we paid uh we're also Westbrookin quiet winter that was uh yeah pretty good uh tell your friends to know me shout frank milky no apologies Jared Allen don't please don't tell this guy i know it's easier he sounds sure but listen you don't want to chase another guy's picks man you should see the way he dresses it's all a monthly subscription where he gets his clothes chosen for him that's the guy you want to make the pick after no the picture be yours do something you actually believe in and if you're on underdog and you lock in you can let him chase your tail now you're a dog underdog make your pick unleash your dog terms may apply

1:09:18you know what quality feels like you can see it in the way a fabric moves recognize it in a flawless fit and appreciate it in the details that make our styles unique that kind of quality doesn't happen by accident it happens with imagination creativity and intention at cold water creek it's the design standard we've honored for over 40 years our rich mountain heritage has shaped how we think about clothing from the very beginning with a commitment to quality that never quits exceptional fabrics considered design silhouettes we've made our own the signature touches that set each piece apart and styles that are distinctively cold water creek for a wardrobe you can count on season after season visit coldwater creek dot com shop new arrivals and save 15% on purchases seventy five dollars or more with code i heart football is back yep you heard correctly football is

1:10:19back and on polymarket you can trade what you think will happen against other fans before kickoff chat live with the polymarket community and get their thoughts and then take your own stance and kickoff doesn't mean you're locked in trade live in game and exit whenever you want as the game changes or combine multiple trades into one trade with polymarket combos now live in the app and football is just the start you can also trade on baseball basketball hockey combat sports tennis and more so say goodbye to the weekend and monday nights and Thursday nights download the polymarket app new customers use promo code rover and deposit ten dollars to get fifty dollars instantly to start trading 18 plus c polymarkets terms of service for more information about restrictions and eligibility the polymarket app is an independent affiliate of polymarket us and not cftc regulated trading always involves risk complete loss can occur the fifty dollar offer is issued as non-wadrallable trading credit for use on the platform offer exclusively available to first time depositors they're down 21 with just over six minutes away this is the moment baby this is the moment

1:11:22we separate the dogs from the boys and if you ask me i only got one question do you got that dog in you because it's never about the winners of the losers but it is about the difference between those brave enough to put some action on the game and those who just want to watch from the sidelines eating off brand pizza rolls so sit down locking those picks and trust that dog in you underdog at least your dog terms may have lie you know what quality feels like you can see it in the way a fabric moves recognize it in a flawless fit and appreciate it in the details that make our styles unique that kind of quality doesn't happen by accident it happens with imagination creativity and intention at cold water creek it's the design standard we've honored for over 40 years our rich mountain heritage has shaped how we think about clothing from the very beginning with a commitment to quality that never quits exceptional fabrics

1:12:23considered design silhouettes we've made our own the signature touches that set each piece apart and styles that are distinctively cold water creek for a wardrobe you can count on season after season visit coldwatercreak.com shop new arrivals and save 15% on purchases 75 dollars or more with code iHeart and football is just the start you can also trade on baseball basketball hockey combat sports tennis and more so say goodbye to the weekend and Monday nights and Thursday nights download the

1:13:25polymarket app new customers use promo code rover and deposit $10 to get $50 instantly to start trading 18 plus C polymarkets terms of service for more information about restrictions and eligibility the polymarket app is an independent affiliate of polymarket us and not cftc regulated trading always involves risk complete loss can occur the $50 offer is issued as non-wadrallable trading credit for use on the platform offer exclusively available to first time depositors