253: Paper Airplane Boy

0:00Mike, I don't know what time is anymore, and I'm a little uncomfortable with it because I want you to show me. All right. All right. It's today, as we record, is the 1st of September. That is obviously very important for some very obvious reasons, which we're going to talk about momentarily. Aaron's birthday was yesterday, so all semblance of work or anything even vaguely related to work hasn't happened in days because I've been, you know, focusing on Aaron, trying to celebrate her because she very, very much deserves it. And then all of a sudden, it's September, which this happens every year. Her birthday is always the 31st of August, but then it's September. And I looked up and I was like, oh, we're recording analog while I was looking at it yesterday, briefly, but we're recording analog tomorrow. I hope that Mike has done something with the show notes because usually by now, I would have at least taken a pass at it, not to say that I do most of the work. I would say you do, but I've at least taken a pass at it by now usually. And I was like, oh, shoot. I didn't even think about it. So first of all, thank you for doing the, the Yomans work of setting up today's episode.

1:01So if there's any parts of it that are good, it's Mike's fault. If there's any bad parts, it's my fault. But, well, either way, either way, I'm not going to engage with you. Either way, all of a sudden, I realized, oh, wait, it's September, which is what, Mike? It's childhood cancer awareness month. Yeah, like it is. September, putting together the September focused episode of analog is usually pretty easy because I have so much going on in September anyway. But like, all of the ones where you may have not been able to put any time into it. This is definitely that one. Yeah, let's, let's start by, I mean, we'll talk about, we'll talk about what we're going to be getting up to throughout the month. But why don't we actually just stop by talking about St. Jude to get today's episode? Because September is childhood cancer awareness month. So we are asking the relay community once again to come together to support the life-saving work of St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. It was a very special place that means a lot to us all.

2:04And I want to talk a little bit about the work they do and why it's important to me. 400,000 children around the world get cancer every year. In St. Jude, open in 1962, childhood cancer was basically considered incurable. Just the statistics were so poor. And so, you know, they tried their best, but it was kind of the end. But since that time, St. Jude has helped push the overall survival rate in the US from 20% to more than 80% which is massive. Now, it very much is a curable thing, right? 80% of kids in the US that are diagnosed with pediatric cancer, they are cured. And we will not stop, St. Jude will not stop until that is 100%. And 100% everywhere. Because curing childhood cancer is a tremendous undertaking. St. Jude needs our help to do it. The generosity of donors like our listeners support cutting edge research that saves lives

3:07and ensures that families never receive a bill from St. Jude for treatment, travel, housing or food. Every child deserves a chance to live their best life and celebrate every moment. When you support St. Jude, you can help make cures possible for kids of cancer because together we can save more lives. Now, we do this all month, right? And we're talking about things going on at St. Jude all month. But this show is only one a month. And so, you know, we kind of stage out some of the things that we talk about when we talk about St. Jude, right? St. Jude providers have a lot of great information and then we get to share that with everybody. Now, there's one thing this year that I was blown away by. So I want to talk about that. So like you're going to hear about this later on in the month, but I want to talk about it right now. So, St. Jude is soon to become one of the first institutions in America to use 3D printing to create customized medications. So if you imagine a child who needs cancer therapies, they need medications for their

4:10cancer treatment. But the required dosage is not available on the market. What do you do? Do you give them more? Do you give them less? Right? Because if it's a type of medicine, do you end up having to give them too much? Well, with 3D printing, that child can receive a dissolving film or gummy tablet that is precisely dose for exactly the amount of medication that they need. This suggests long-term problems for patients who don't have an option based on what's available in the dosage forms that are on the market. St. Jude is testing 3D printers that can produce medications in child-friendly forms, such as dissolving films, many tablets, medicated licences, and gummy tablets. These are also clearly alternative forms of medication that they're more precise, they're less burdensome to take, and the kid can choose what they want. Right? Like you give the child the ability to choose the medication in the form that they want to take it and give them exactly what they need.

5:10It blows my mind that some of this technology is available in Europe. St. Jude's anticipated implementation is going to mark an important milestone moment in pediatric health care in the US. And it is donor support that fuels these breakthroughs, these possibilities to bring help and hope to families. Like I read about this a couple of weeks ago, like when we were going through this stuff, and I was like, man, that is awesome. And like we've been so lucky to see over the years getting closer and closer to 10 years all the time that we've been doing this with St. Jude. And I've had the pleasure of seeing the ways that technology implement the work that they're doing and it can like push it further, you know, because they want to show us that stuff a lot. And we're really interested in it. And so we've gotten the opportunity to see all of these incredible ways that technology

6:12and medication come together to help support these kids and support their treatment. So what I want you to do is to go and get involved yourself with this. And there are so many ways that you can do it. And I want you to listen up and think about it. So go to st. Jude.org slash rely and you can make a donation. So we're inviting our community once again. We have a goal of $700,000 to raise this year. We're getting very close to $5 million raised lifetime. That incredible. That will happen during this campaign. It's actually we're not very far away from that right now. And so that is going to be an incredible milestone moment for us all to celebrate this year. St. Jude.org slash relays where you go to make a donation. If you make a donation, check whether your employer will match it. This will double your donation by clicking the blue search employer button on the donation page. You can find out more information about employer matching as well as using a donor advised

7:12fund at st. Jude.org slash relay. If you know what a donor advised fund is and have one, please consider giving some money to st. Jude. What else can I tell you about? Ah, you can sign up to be a fundraiser yourself. We have a bunch of really amazing incentives. So this is where you would go in and be like, Hey, I want to set up my own donation and you can go out to your friends, your family, your community, maybe even your online following, maybe your Twitch streamer, a content creator, a podcast or of your own. You can set up your own fundraising campaign that goes into our overall total and people that do that are they could be eligible to get some amazing incentives, starting at just a dollar raised. So it was all can challenge coins, bandanas, death mats, cord organizers and a really sick car heart st. Jude. There's some great stuff in there. All of the information you need for all of this is at st. Jude.org slash relay. More cures, more hope, more tomorrow's go to st. Jude.org slash relay to donate or start

8:13a fundraiser today. I just wanted to add a little bit of flavor to this because this is the only chance we got like like excited. We're monthly show. This is the only time we're going to hear about it on analog and it's that important to the two of us. I put over the years a couple of posts, a trio of posts on my website, maybe more than I'm not thinking of about st. Jude. And I wanted to call attention to the very first one I wrote, which was after we did play live. I don't think Mike was at that one, but most of the rest of us, no, I've never been to the play lives because they happen like a different time of year. It'd be like a whole thing for me to get over. Exactly. But a lot of us went to play live in 2024. And one of the things that I had never done until play live, which is this like big creator event, was go to the pavilion, which Mike has been to many, many, many times. And in the pavilion, which is where they honor the history of st. Jude and Danny Thomas and his wife in particular, who are the founders, they have it. They had, and I think this is a normal thing, but they certainly in 2024, they had a, like a bulletin board sort of scenario. And this is what inspires you. And they had blank, blank, posted notes.

9:15And on the post it note was printed. I went to st. Jude and I was inspired by ellipsis. And there, on my blog post, you can see there's a zillion notes on this board, but I wanted to call attention to a couple of them. One of them reads, and what appears to be adult handwriting, I went to st. Jude and I was inspired by the lives they saved, including mine, which that immediately hits you in the fields, right? Because this definitely looks like someone who is at the very least in an older child, if not a full, full board adult. But then I noticed in what was clearly very childish handwriting, I went to st. Jude and I was inspired by the fact that I will make it with a little heart drawn under it. I have looked at this post, I don't know how many times I'm getting choked up as I read it again, because it's that important, the work that st. Jude does. St. Jude does whatever they can, however they can, to try to save children from dying. And I don't care if you have $100,000, $10,000, $1,000, $1,000, don't feel like $1 isn't

10:18enough. Whatever you are willing to throw their way, whatever it is, please think about it. And if you don't have the means to throw money in the direction of st. Jude, see if you can throw some time your way. That's what Mike was talking about a minute ago, starting your own fundraiser or whatever the case may be. Don't feel like it needs to be some grandiose splash or anything like that. Every little bit helps. And we have members in an audience that are like college students. And so they don't really have disposable income, but they set up fundraisers and they're able to go out to, you know, maybe they're working a part-time job and they go to the call. You know, there are ways that you can get involved if you want to. Obviously, we're not suggesting that. But although I do think everybody should do it, but you know, we can't really say something like that. But it's something that people can get involved with in many ways, which I think is lovely. Yep. So please, what is the st. Jude.org slash relay? Do I have that right? How could it be anything else?

11:18I know. I'm just making sure. Just making sure. It's my first time this month or this year, I should say so both, I guess. So I just want to make sure I got it right. But st. Jude.org slash relay, check it out. Take a look. See if there's anything you can do to help because gosh darn it, these kids deserve it. But that's not all though, is it? No, it is not. The 2026 podcast, the thund is return. It's coming, baby. Friday, October, the second. It's a whole new world, Mike. It's a new one. This year, the podcast, the thund is going to be the grand finale of the campaign. We've usually done it in kind of like the middle to like the second, third of the month, which, you know, when we started doing the podcast, the thund, it was like, let's line it up to the iPhone because that, you know, people will, will be like more, acted them, or will buy new iPhones. We'll show them off. That has become less of a thing over time, even though it always has remained lined up. It's really inconvenient for everyone.

12:19And I don't know that it is a benefit anymore. And I think that there is something really fun about the podcast, the thund being kind of like the final big thing that we do. I mean, there's obviously the campaign will like wrap up a couple of days later, just for any struggle donations. But like this will be like the last big push and the last kind of thing that we're talking about during the, the fundraising campaign. And so yeah, we're doing it on Friday, October, second. It's going to be on the relay YouTube channel. I'll put a link in the show notes so people can, you can already, because I love how YouTube does this. You can already like market and like put a reminder on it so you can, like YouTube will remind you when we go live. Yes, it'll be 12 hours as always. Cases going to be there. Jason, Kathy is going to be there obviously me and Steven too. And a bunch of wonderful guests. This year's going to be great. I actually only just got involved.

13:23So over the last few years, my kind of like involvement in the planning decreased. It started because I was doing the relay five event. Another relay 10 events, sorry, in London. And that was, it was a big job and it was happening kind of like simultaneous to the majority of the C2 planning. So Steven took it over. And then last year I was still kind of like a new enough parent that having any extra time was nice. And now it's just like the thing now. So I just come into the campaign kind of very late and this is the latest I've come in. They're like, we launched and it's like, hello, everyone, what are we doing? And the work that everybody has done for the podcast us on this year is amazing. The guest lineup that we have is like unparalleled. I am, I'm so excited to be able, I don't know when we can start talking about what we're doing, but I can't wait to start sharing some of it. So yeah, I'm really excited about the podcast that's on hopefully Casey will make a paper airplane. I should start practicing again.

14:26My goodness. I wanted to know how lucky you are that I that I wasn't involved sooner on because as soon as I saw the campaign art, which is incredible, by the way, you should go and check out a campaign art. You're like in the desk, my image, you're standing on top of like a balcony, right? If I was involved in that, you would have been throwing a paper airplane. Let me tell you, I see you, you really got away from one them. My friend, dear. Thank goodness. Be a cool guy of a cowboy hat. No, no, you would have been, you would have been paper airplane boy. So if you know what we're talking about, like last year, Casey, we had a paper airplane contest and Casey was convinced that he was going to like crush it and like blow everyone out the park and he just just multiple times in a row, just like utterly failed, just hotter failure, just throwing the plane and it just lands like one and went behind him. Like it was just like a whole thing. And so yeah, good times. I can't wait for the podcast at all. I can't wait for the event, but also I can't wait to see everyone.

15:29Oh, heck yeah. We had such a good time last year and like I was really like hesitant last year because it was my first time away from the family and I didn't really know how I was going to feel. But we had, it was just such a good time and I really cannot wait for this one. It's very unfortunate that we won't get to see you brick an iPhone. That's sad. That's sad. Man, you were really on one last year as an incredible side to behold. Yeah, you know, you can, I'm pretty sure we talked about it on analog from, we did. We did. I'll find the episode to put in the show notes. But anyway, suffice to say it was a whole time. I'm glad I genuinely hand on heart. I'm glad that I did the Memphis Apple Store pick up experience once with everyone. I'm glad I did it. I'm not sad that I'm not doing it again this year because it was a lot. It was mostly helpful. I'm sad. Well, I'm sure you are because the iPhone is priced differently. For me, if I buy in America, then if I buy it here, right?

16:33And so like I've benefited from the currency, what is it? The currency had wins. Right, right. I misunderstood your point. I'm with you. But no, thank you for letting us go on for a little bit. Please, please, please, please relay or excuse me, stju.org slash relay. I almost did that backwards. Stju.org slash relay. Relay to other. I think it looks. It does. Oh, see, there you go. They got us covered. So please check it out. Just take a look. To do us a favor, just take a look and see if there's anything you can do. Thank you so much for thinking about it. No, you can. You can do something. Okay, see, I'm, no, I'm just saying you can do something. Everyone can. You could do something. Figure it out. Figure it out. Something is watching the podcast of the phone, right? Everyone can be involved. Or tell your friends. Like, yeah, there are many ways to be involved and even down to just tuning in on Friday, October 2nd, from 12 p.m. to 12 a.m. Eastern time on the relay YouTube channel. That is a very base level thing that you can do. From there, it's how many dollars can you give or convince other people to give.

17:36It's a great, just a great cause. Like, I don't think there could be a better one. That's the best cause in my opinion. I completely agree. This episode is brought to you by FitBud. If you're looking to change your fitness level, it can be hard to know where to start. Like, if you need to prepare for a 12 hour live stream, it can be helpful to kind of get on a good fitness path. FitBud is an easy and affordable way to build a fitness plan that is made for you because everybody has their own path of personal fitness, which is why FitBud uses data to make sure things are customized to suit you perfectly. FitBud will adapt as you improve, making sure every workout is challenging while pushing you to make the progress you want. Because you will see the best results when a workout program is tailored to your body, experience, environment and goals. FitBud stores this all in your FitBud gym profile. It will track your muscle recovery, so you're avoiding burnout and keeping up your momentum. FitBud have analyzed billions of data points by combining AI and exercise science. They've been fine tuned by a team of certified personal trainers. This all ensures that they are making the best possible workouts for you.

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19:40So much is going on, Michael. So much is going on. As we record, as I said, it's the 1st of September. We have a brand new Apple CEO, but that's not the show that we're going to talk about. This is not the show for talking about that. It actually is. You haven't read for enough in our document, maybe. Well, yes, I have a note that we may talk about this later on today. You are proving the fact that you have not done your preparation today. You're right. And honestly, it was literally on my screen, as I was saying those words, but hey, here we are. But the point is, is that there are other things that are launching today. We are not only launching John Ternison to the stratosphere of Apple CEO, DUM, or whatever, but designed in California is launching. How do you feel? Well, it's not launching today. It's launching tomorrow. It was here recording and a few days ago, as you're listening. So the feeds are available and they've been available now for a week because we started on-boarding. I'll kick us out to backers with the membership program. And then the second, on September 2nd, we published the first two episodes of series B

20:45recalling it, but like the first kind of public series is out for the world. These are the first, this includes the first new content. So the feeds were launched with all of the stuff that we published in the upgrade feed over the Kickstarter campaign period. And in episode one of this series, we also published an upgrade with our friend, your friend and mine, John Syracusa. And then we have in this series seven total episodes that is telling the story of Apple run by Guillemille Lyom and CTO and Hancock. Coming to the realization that Apple is not prepared for the future of computing with the foundation being Mac OS. That Mac OS is old and creaky and is missing a lot of features that it needs for the time now that users are asking for, but also lacks fundamentals for building into the future.

21:49So they start, they kind of start to understand the debt for the issue, yeah, the debt to the issue. They start working on building Copeland. That fails. And more failures continue to the point that Apple realize they are unable to develop Mac OS into anything that can help them in the future. Like there's nothing they can do with it. So they have to bring in someone from the outside. And then this is the story we tell leads to Jean-Louis Garcia and B. Some I would say unlikely suitors that you may not know or even in the conversation. I think there are some surprises, some surprises in this series. Some are not only leading to Apple seeking out next and bringing Steve Jobs back into the company. So that is the arc of this series, which is funny because this is kind of like a thing

22:49that we're learning with designing California. But the way that we are telling stories, everything takes longer than we think it will to get to things, right? Because Jason is doing just an incredible job with the research and the way that he is writing out the episodes. And so he's going so deep. So we wanted to have John to help us talk about the history of Mac OS. Like that is a Mac OS 10 specifically. He's actually what we're doing with John. But to get to Mac OS 10, we have to tell the story how we got there. And that ended up being seven whole episodes. We thought it was going to be four. But we just kept growing. In the work Jason was doing, but then also in the conversation that we're having. And so the seven episodes, it gets to Steve Jobs returning. And then next, we're not going to continue the story now. So sometime probably next year, we will return to this series and talk about the beginning

23:52of Mac OS 10. So how they go from next and next step to Mac OS. So fun stuff. I'm learning a lot, which is great. All of this stuff that I just spoke about, that's just off the dome. Now I just know this. Now I love that. Like I'm learning a lot. And there are stereo. The more work that Jason does, the more reading that I'm doing, kind of like the more I am learning that a lot of the stories that we believe are not entirely true. Interesting. So like Steve Jobs was never fired from Apple. Did you know that? Oh, yes, I did know that. So stuff like that is like everybody talks about Jobs being fired from Apple, but he wasn't fired. If you want to know the story of that one, that will be coming to you later on this year. That is a series that we're going to tackle later in a few months time from now. It's telling like what actually leads to him leaving and what are the circumstances

24:55in which that actually happens. But yeah, it's like it's great to learn this stuff. Like it's super interesting. I love it. It's nice to have more knowledge about this company and it's like it's really good to talk about technology with zero baggage attached to it because it's not now. Like we just look at it from history. I mean, there will be things that we get to that will have more baggage to them. I'm sure as we get to more modern stuff because like the results of some decisions we don't know. Like it feels very different to like have an opinion on what's happening now is very different to have an opinion what to have a decade ago. And I really like it. And so yeah, I'm very excited. I'm, you know, we've done this series. We've recorded the next series. And I think the thing that I am struck by the most is how proud I am of the work and the quality of the work that we're doing.

25:56And you know, like I'm sure you felt this when you're on the eve of like a new project being available to the world, you start to doubt yourself. And I don't feel that way. Maybe for the first time in my professional career, I know it's good enough. I know it's great. Like I've listened back to the series, the macOS series that you'll be hearing macOS crisis series. I've listened to it maybe in four, like three or four times now. And I've enjoyed it every single time. That's excellent. It's fun. It's super informative. And we've got, you know, because of the type of show it is, the episodes are short, but very dense. Like there's a lot of information in them. And we've taken a lot of time and effort to make them sound the best they can. They're really heavily edited to be all killer no filler, I will say. Right. It's benefiting from the work that Jason's doing on the kind of the script writing.

26:59We're not reading a script though, if that makes sense. Like he writes it all down and then we'll kind of we'll talk about what is written. It's like a real mixture. It's hard to explain, but it's not like he's sitting and just reading from a Google doc, even though the information is there that he's like prepared. Yeah. He's in the way that like I was able to rattle off the story beats for the series because we've already spoken about it because it's in my head. I'm super happy with the quality of the product. And I think that I just want people to listen to it. Like I desperately want people to listen. And like just to go and try it, like just go subscribe to the feed. It's going to be, we're going to be publishing episodes every week. I think it's a real good show to listen to. And I just want people to try it because I think if you're very interested in technology, I think you'll like this. It's like the, it's our stories. The stories of how we got here, right? It's like the history of the stuff that we care about. And I think it's, I think I feel privileged that I'm in a position where I'm able to

28:03help bring these stories to people because I think it's, it's important stuff that we should know about. And also it's, it's interesting to learn. So yeah, I'm really excited about it. And it's super weird. Like the launching this show the way we have is like so inside out. Like people know about it already. People have heard parts already. The feed is existing, but we're not really talking about it. And, and then when we launch it, it's like, well, I really want people to listen to the free show, but we're financially we're good for a year, right? Which is the whole point. So like the, the initial launch is, is not as important as normal, right? Well, like you launch a new project, everything you get in the first day is like super important to understanding its life, but we don't have that pressure. I really want people to listen to it because it is still important. Having a big free audience is actually really important for the long term of the show, right? Because we want to convert more people to members.

29:05We want to get advertisers like this is going into the future. But it's like a super weird, it's kind of freeing it away where it's like we know we're good for a year, at least. And so that is very helpful. But like we're also doing a bunch of things, which we've not, I've not done before, like we're spending the money that we made in, we're investing in the show in, in, in quite significant ways, like with people, like I'm working with a PR company. I love that show. Which I've never done before. But I believe that there are stories to tell about this project. And I think we can connect with people that maybe we wouldn't have reached before. And I have no idea if it's going to work, but I want to try it. And like, you know, me and Jason were talking about this and we're looking at some of the things that we're trying to do right now and some of the specialists that we're trying to work with to get this show going.

30:06And he's like, well, if we don't do it right now, we're never going to do it. So we should do it right now. And this is actually like a thing that I'm thinking about a lot. So I'm trying a bunch of things that I've not done before or a bunch of extra work for the show because I'm really excited about it right now. It's not just like a normal part of my work. And so I feel like I can put in a bunch of extra time that I wouldn't, maybe wouldn't normally do trying a bunch of stuff out because it's all very exciting and new. So like we, so the PR company that we're working with, we're actually not going to start a lot of promotional work for this first series. It's going to be for the second series, which is about the iPod. Ah, nice. In October, which has been this series of day, I think it's October November, the iPod turns 25. Don't think I knew that or if I did, I'd already forgot. Yeah, the iPod turns 25 this year. And so we have a whole series kind of talking about how the iPod comes to be.

31:07And there are again, some unbelievable twists and turns in that story. And also it's one which we're very grateful for Jason. He was actually there, right? Like, right, right, right. To the point where if you watch the iPod keynote, you see him. And so that's the next series. So I think that one has the possibility of having some broader appeal. Yeah. So like that is the main focus for this, like the PR work that we're doing, of like trying to do this. And then if this works next year, 20 years of iPhone, we launched this show, man, at just like the perfect time. It's like a bunch of big anniversaries in the next couple of years. Sure did. And we can put, and we are going to put a lot of effort into telling those stories. So yeah, I'm, I'm very excited about it. I'm nervous because I just want it to hit with people and I want people to like it, but I don't, I'm not doubting the product quality because I know it's there. Can I tell you something that you will find blasphemous?

32:08Yes. Is that okay? I have listened to, I don't know, maybe five episodes of the rest of history. They're fine. It's, it's not, if you don't care about history, like, you know, they were fine. They, they, they were good. But I think the way that a lot of people, including, but not limited to you and Jason, talk about the rest of history is that it is the world's greatest podcast. And I'm not trying to imply that you're wrong because this is just one man's opinion. But I thought they were good. I wasn't sure what to think of designed in California before having listened to it. Now I haven't listened to anything more than anyone else in the public can hear. You know, obviously I have back the Kickstarter, but you know, I haven't heard, I haven't, Mike hasn't fed me like advanced episodes or anything. I love the treatment that you guys are giving this. And I think you might have hit the nail on the head. It's not that I don't care about history, but it doesn't rev my engine the way that Apple stuff does. And so the combination of two voices that irrespective of the fact that you're dear friends

33:10of mine, I just enjoy hearing you to talk with each other. Like, upgrade is one of my top three favorite podcasts for a reason. Like I love that show because of the two of you. And so getting that, but twisted about a little bit in a good way really works for me a lot. And so if even if you're not that if you've tried the rest of history and it's maybe not for you, like it's, I mean, I wouldn't, I don't know if I should say it's not for me, but you get one driving out. Like even if it's not for you, I would really, really, really give designing California a chance because it is really incredible. You can tell the amount of work that is going into it. And that was before you guys really had your feet under you. Now you properly have your feet under you and it's only getting a presumed. It's only going to be getting better and better. So you definitely should check it out. It's really genuinely good. So I would say something like that because I'm a nice guy and Mike's a good friend, but no, truly, really, really, it's great stuff. And you should check it out. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, like, you know, I know I'm talking about things that are coming in a long time from now, but when we finished recording the iPod episode, we were just like elated with how much we enjoyed doing it.

34:11In a way, I haven't felt that good about a podcast recording in a while. It's this like surprise of like, man, we just crushed it. And I have, I have, I have small things that like, you know, we just, we did a really good episode of upgrade this week, which I was very happy we have. And I finished like, yeah, it was really good. But this one was like, we finished it. And I was just like, we did it. And we did, we were recording for four hours. We did the whole series and one. Oh, my. So the series of John was an absolute nightmare to put together for so many reasons. And it wasn't because of him. It was because there was a third person. And we had no idea how we were producing the show when we started way too many recording sessions. We had to do a bunch of pickup recordings where we're adding things in this time. It was very much like we started and we just kept going until we were done. Obviously took a couple of breaks in the middle, but it felt way better. It feels like this is actually the flow. It's very strange, but a decision that I think makes a lot of sense, but a strange decision from a production perspective, like the first true season of the show to not just be

35:14me and Jason. It wasn't like a great way to learn. However, as we kept saying, we had an infinite amount of time to produce it in, right? Because we never actually said when we were launching the show, we decided when we wanted to do it, which was now we didn't have to do it now. So we could have carried on and kept working on it, kept working on it, but we were able to put it together. But it was a mammoth task. But I think we learned an incredible amount about producing a show like this. It is actually taking a village of people. Like, do we do credits? There are credits at the end of the show. Just listen to how many people were involved and then it increases even more for the iPod series. Yeah, it's great work. I'm very proud of it. Please go check it out. Relay.fm slash designed is where you will find the feed for designing California. I'm so proud of this project. And if you've ever liked anything that I've done, please listen to it. It will mean a lot to me. I know we're masking for a lot from you today. But this one, I don't know, I think it's a special thing.

36:16And I think I feel privileged to be in a position to be able to produce it. And I really hope that people enjoy listening to it. Yep. What else is awesome these days? Our friends over at Saley and an E-SIM service app that is brought to you by Nord Security. You choose from several affordable E-SIM plans and over 160 countries in eight regions. With a Saley E-SIM, you'll always have a connection when you need it. Being abroad of no internet can be a disaster. Trying to find your way to where you're staying, researching the local food spots, staying in touch with loved ones. You can't do it about connection. That's why a local SIM card can make all the difference. But you know what's even better? An E-SIM that provides an internet connection wherever you travel, saving your money on roaming fees and it's so convenient. That's what I love about it. You just download the app on Android or iOS. You buy a plan. There are multiple plans available over 160 countries in eight regions with some of the best rates in the line. And you just install it with the app directly in your device. You just follow the instructions and it'll tell you how to do it.

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38:18That is the code analogue checkout for 15% off a sale E-SIM plan. A thanks to Saley for the support of this show and all of Relay. So what else is going on in my ex world? You've been busy busy busy busy. I guess this is the problem, right? That like if if if I do the majority of the document I'm just talk vicious me, right? Like it's just like, it's all good. So Sophia is not necessary now. Is this what I would call daycare then or something different? No, I don't know. Why don't you explain daycare to me? So we never did a traditional daycare because we are lucky enough to have airing at home. But the way I would describe daycare, which is admittedly somewhat ignorant, is that hey, both parents have other things to do during the day. And so the child needs to go somewhere and they will go to this place oftentimes from like, you know, seven or eight in the morning until like five or six at night. Yeah. Sometimes different arrangements. There's I believe a nominal amount of instruction involved,

39:20but it's largely just keep the kid alive and feed them and so on. So whereas I perceive and again, maybe I'm ignorant, but I perceive preschool as more about instruction and oftentimes not a full day thing and less about I need the child to be somewhere else while I do important life things. Okay. I don't know how to one-to-one this. So I'm just going to describe to you what this place is like. So essentially, you know, you can the kids can go from like six months old, right? But then it scales like you can go from just like baby, baby up to kind of you're getting ready for. Probably what would essentially be a preschool, like it's attached to a school, you know, like that. But there is a curriculum at this school. This sorry at this nursery, they have it's all focused around play and exploration, but they have kind of like a as a bunch of methods like Montessori and stuff.

40:22This place has a kind of blended approach of different kind of ways of thinking about child education. But it will scale with Sophia. So Sophia's 18 months old so she doesn't she kind of goes in at the middle group because they scale by age. And so, you know, like we've been there and visited and there's like inside play area, outside play area, different like building. Yeah, it is, I don't know. It's not school, right? But I guess it's probably closer to daycare in the way that you describe it. And by and large, it exists because parents need to work. And so what are you going to do with the child? And so you have this thing in place to help support that situation. And you know, we had always felt that we would send Sophia to nursery at some point because we have friends who have done this and it was very beneficial for their kids to have a lot of time with other children.

41:25And we found ways to do that up until now with like groups and stuff like that. But you know, this would give us kind of force that kind of experience. But also, Adina has been on probably, I would say an extended parental leave, but she needs to get some of her life back now. There's work that she needs to be taken care of and just general things for herself. And so we're not doing full time nursery. We're doing most three days a week. And they're full days, but we're kind of staging it in right now. So today she said they do these kind of like, let's try and get the kids accustomed to this environment kind of thing. And we did the first one of those today where Adina was at the nursery for an hour with Sophia. Like they were just there together. That was today. Tomorrow Adina goes with Sophia and is there for like 15 minutes and then goes and sits in the waiting area outside for like an hour? I'm surprised they don't tell her to tell Adina to just

42:29buzz off and like rip the bandaid off. That's the next day. Ah, I say. So then the third day is you drop her off and you leave. And it's only for a couple of hours or whatever. And we're very much like so we do still have flexibility in the way that we're doing things in our lives. We're just going to stage it up for what Sophia's comfortable with. And maybe for the first couple of weeks, it's just a couple of hours a day rather than the full thing. And yeah, as Javos has said in the discord, the 15 to 20 minutes is in case it becomes like untenable. So 15 minutes with her and then sitting outside as like if Sophia just can't handle it. Mom is right there. You can just go and help. And then it's the building up. I mean, to me, it's like this feels very fast, but also these are the experts and they're, you know, they help kind of explain it and they're very flexible and

43:29they understand that every kid is different and they're going to kind of help us. I mean, it's like it's one of these things where, you know, we keep wondering like, oh, we ready for this? Is she ready for this? But I don't think anyone's ever ready for it. I think behaviorally, Sophia is clearly in a spot where this is more exciting to her than it would have been other times. And like the last couple of months in her like baby classes and stuff, she has become so much more independent and she just, you know, they'll arrive at a class like, we call they're called like sensory classes, you know, I don't stay and play all these different phrases for these things, but it's like, you know, you have an instructor and they're doing things and singing songs and like, there's all these like activities that you're doing. But it used to be it, it takes Sophia to these things and she would sit around us and, you know, do whatever. And now she just, there'll be a different hour. She's just off like running up to other kids, playing with toys, seeing what the instructors up to trying to pull the computer off the table.

44:32Just, you know, she's just living her life now. Like she's so much more, she's like, you know, the report of today. So like, they got there. And then Sophia just went, she was running to stuff. She's trying to talk to her kids. Like she just off and then an hour later, she came back and was like trying to go for the door, like Gavin. I'm doing it now. I'm done now. I'm done now. Thank you. This is a great hour. So, you know, maybe, you know, she had a really good time, but only one in one hour. We're also dealing with like, she's, you know, she's got a bit of a cold right now. I'm like, not too bad. So they were happy with it. Like, they're all these like unbelievably specific rules about kid sickness and nursery. Yeah. I got it. You, yeah, it's complicated. But anyway, yeah. So we don't know. We don't know how it's going to be. I think tomorrow, tomorrow is probably going to be much harder, right? Because that is the like first time our child is abandoned, you know, and we have to deal with that. We're all going to have to get

45:35get on the board of that one. I did have a thing where like, I had a bit of a wall ball a couple of nights ago. So fear is very, she's got very good balance and coordination. She doesn't fall over very much. And if she does fall, she's very good at saving herself from dangerous situations, which is great. I think I believe you've been to my house. We have a concrete floor downstairs. I think that's taught her that she needs to be careful when she falls. But this was one of the first sounds where she fell and she bumped her nose on a table, right? And she kind of bruised the bridge of her nose. And it was very upsetting for everyone. Like, you know, she had, she had, we found a new level of crying that we'd not experienced before. That's always like a first time. Loudness level that had not. It's very upsetting. And I was like, I, I'm, you know, after she went about, I started to be like, look, I feel really bad about us now sending her

46:35to nursery. Like, it felt like she's unprotected, you know? And we had a long conversation about it and ultimately it's like, there is no right answer here. There is not. And like, at some point, we're going to be sending our child out into the world, right? That's exactly right. And you might as well just rip that bandaid off. I mean, I'm joking in life and about it, but it is hard. It is hard. And especially the first time, it's, it's difficult. I remember, I might have the order of operations wrong, but I believe the first time we did something like this was we, I talked about this many times in the past, but Declan did what we like to call baby Jim. It was a, it is a place called rompin roll, which is similar to stuff I'm talking about, I think. Yeah. So you would go with the parent would take the child and you would not drop the child off and you'd have like a half hour class where basically it was as you were describing. Like, let's just put these children in the presence of other children and hope that some sort of like interaction happens. And, you know, try to nominally instruct them on things, but really it's

47:41just somewhat structured play time, right? Well, I forget exactly what the program was. It was like mom's morning out or something like that that they would do. And basically you could drop the kid off for like two to three hours and disappear. And then, you know, Aaron could go do whatever she wanted. And this was by design only a couple hours. And it was not traumatizing, but it was, I mean, it doesn't sound that different from what we're doing in a lot of sense. No, it's not. And it, I mean, traumatizing is the right word, terrifying is the right word, but I can't think of easier gentle versions. Depliant settling is a good way to put it in. And he has had the protection of this child for a year and a half. And if she is not actively protecting this child, it's me, right? She could trust me, right? And similarly, if I am not protecting the child, I know a deiner is protecting the child, right? And so like that is that feels safe. It's like someone who I trust more than anyone else is looking after the thing that's most important to me. And then we're

48:45like, I don't even know these people, you know, like we've met them. They seem nice. They seem their professionals. They're very knowledgeable. They seem lovely. Here you go. Here's the most important thing in my life. I'm just going to leave now. Take care. It's horrific. Like it's such a fit. But it's like, what are you going to do? You know, like it's going to happen eventually. Lots of people will have different views about this. And I know this is like always the thing with people here me say that we're sending our eating month old to nursery. We're like, what are you doing? What is wrong with you? And they'll be people that are saying, oh my god, how did you last this long? Yeah. Now it's it's challenging. And I think it's valuable for the child. I think it's valuable for the parents to have a little bit of a break, especially if you don't have, you know, regularly occurring babysitting built into your lives because of, you know, your parents. I feel like I want to mention this. We have no help. Yep. We have none. Just because of the way that our

49:46family situation is, we don't have any family near us. Like, Adina and I have not been without Sophia for 18 months. Yeah. She's always that what? Which is I love why? It's amazing. But it just changes who you are. I have independence more. Adina does not. And it is very important to me that we find a way for her to have that. Like a lot of people are very, I said, at this these days, I was very lucky to have family around who can help out. We just don't have that. And so we need a bit of assistance for everybody's sake, I think. No, I couldn't agree more. And when Declan is born, we had a lot of help. And for uninteresting familial political reasons, we had less and less once Michaela was born and then almost none ever since COVID. And so it's a lot. It's very hard. Our kids are self-sufficient. They're older. Yeah. They mostly are easygoing. But it's still a lot.

50:48It's still a lot even for us. So I get it. Yeah. I'll let you know how it goes. I mean, we're just starting. I'm excited about it. I'm terrified about it. I feel confident it will be okay. And we're just going to see how we go. Yeah, that's all you can really do. And if you'll allow me to staple a little bit of my own life on the side of this topic. As I record this, it was last week that we went back to school for the year, which was very sad for, you know, Aaron and me because we like having the kids around. Yeah. Especially Aaron. Like, I mean, I very much enjoy having the kids around. But Aaron is like devastated when school starts again. And so that was sad. But this year is the year is the first year that the kids are not at the same school because Declan is now in middle school. And Michaela remains an elementary school, of course. And so that has been a whole new world for the list family. Declan is now in middle school, which, you know, to remind mostly Mike the way we do it here is kindergarten, one, two, four, five are all elementary, generally speaking,

51:49six, seven, eight are middle school. And then nine, ten, eleven, twelve are high school. So you're usually done with high school at about 18 years old or thereabouts. And so Declan is now in a new school. He's changing classes, you know, all the time. This is the first time that he's got like different periods, you know, first period, second period, so on and so forth. That's fun. Is he going to move class? Like he has to physically move. Yeah, which he's so far really liked. I don't want to get into it now. That's a whole thing. But his teacher that he had coincidentally for both fourth and fifth grade was a very good instructor, but was otherwise, let's just go with not my favorite. And and I think she not deliberately, but I think she very much kind of beat the joy of school out of Declan, which was devastating to watch because he used to adore school. And I've been very sad to see that that has faded in him. But so far, I say, as I very loudly knock on my relay wouldn't cube, so far he seems to be getting some of that enthusiasm back. And I think that's really exciting. And

52:51it's also, you know, kind of speaking of ripping the bandaid off, you know, Declan has been with the same kid since kindergarten, you know, since he was five, six, something like that. He's almost twelve now. And the way the districts line up, I think we talked about this on the show, the way the districts lined up is that most of his elementary school goes to a different middle school. And only a smattering of kids go to his middle school. And I think that's actually really good for him because he's having to like make new friends and find a new click and so on and so forth. And so it's been really great watching him and granted, we're only a week in change in, but it's been really great watching him kind of refine that joy, rekindle that joy for school to kindle new friendships and so on. And then with Michaela, the third grade team at the school in which she goes every single, there's four teachers per grade level and every single one of the teachers, particularly on the third grade team is great, but she got our favorite of the third grade teachers, which we are very excited about. This is the same teacher that Declan had in third grade. She is wonderful. And so

53:56we really, I'm not, I'm just going to say we really locked out. I shouldn't say that because, again, the whole third grade team is great there, but we really locked out. And so Michaela has been really enjoying school so far and I think that's really good as well. But it's been, it's been weird having an empty quiet house during the day again and you're going to get that too, at least for a few hours. And it's, it's, it's lovely, but it's weird. It's really, really weird. All right. This episode is brought to you by In Cogni. Data brokers are in the business of collecting personal information, which can be an uncomfortable thought for a lot of us. Nobody likes the idea of other people having access to your personal details. So enter In Cogni. They reach out to data brokers on your behalf, requests your personal data removal and deal with any objections from their side. I am a big fan of In Cogni. I was able to give them the information that I wanted them to scour the internet for and remove my personal data from the places that I don't want it to be from data brokers who are selling it, profiting from it. They shouldn't be able to do that. And I don't want them to. This would be incredibly difficult for me to do on my

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56:00In Cogni and use the code analog at the link in the show notes and get 60% of an annual plan. That is it in Cogni.com, snatch analog. I thanks to In Cogni for their support of this show and relay. So we have a new CEO, Apple today, today, we're recording this. We're very much stuck in a time warp today. John Turnis has taken the reins Apple updated the leadership page that shows Turnis in the role. I'm sure there will be some kind of public statement or something today that again, we haven't gotten at this point in the day that I've seen. And I don't know, I just thought it would be weird to not talk about it, I think. Do you have any reflections on this at all? Any feelings, thoughts? A little bit, not a ton. I think for me, I would say, I've been listening to, but I am not done with this week's upgrade, which, unsurprisingly, is great. And I echo a lot of what I think both of you, but for whatever reason, it stands out

57:06in my mind, the Jason was saying it that if you look at the whole of Tim Cook's tenure, job done, job well done. I think on the whole, he's done a great job. That being said, I think to some degree, Apple has, I don't know if Asafi is the way I word I'm looking for, but has gotten a little stagnant in some ways. And I think that it is very refreshing as a watcher of the company, as a fan of the company, as much as one can be a fan of a capitalist organization. I think it's going to be fun to see what if anything changes. And I would expect it's not going to be that much, particularly not immediately, but you never know. I mean, there were a few things that I think you would point it out in previous upgrades that, you know, it was pretty quick that Tim had said, you know, hey, charitable giving is really going to be a thing now. And that was almost instant to my recollection. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but you know, it was quick. And I think that having someone who is younger, because what it's turned us like 55 or something like

58:07that, I don't know. Having someone who is younger, I think is exciting. I think that there's probably going to be additional turnover. There's already been some that will probably be more. And not to say that I'm looking for these people to leave or anything like that, but I think it'll be exciting to have a different staff, you know, at the top of Apple or some different staff, I don't know. I just think it's an exciting time to see how it all shakes out. And you were going to do it as well. But I'm going to steal your thunder and call attention to your blog post from today, which I thought was very interesting. And perhaps you can talk about now. But if you have an opening statement before we talk about your very good blog post, I'm happy to hear it. No, I just was struck by it. So like, the thing that I've been wondering the most is, and I've have had a gut feeling on this is how how is Apple going to sell turn us to us? Like we're also just a few days away from an event, right? And I think that's also that's going to be the biggest tell. It's like, how did I present and how does he present the iPhone event?

59:10Right. But it's like, what are the narratives that they're going to push about him about the things that he likes and the things that he cares about? And maybe things that he doesn't, but they want him to and he's going to. And I was really struck in his executive profile about the things that they decided to focus on with him. One of them was exactly what I thought they were going to focus on, which is this man's product guy. He is a, you know, groundbreaking products, instrumental in the introduction of multiple new product lines. Like that always felt to me, like the route that they would take it was the easy one to take. And it feels like the natural one to take like he is a product guy. He's been doing product for a long time. And everybody always thinks about Steve Jobs. Everybody knows jobs as a product guy at different one, which is worth remembering. Like the people say Steve Jobs was a product guy and he was, but not in the way that that turn us is where he actually involved in the engineering, right? Like it was all vibes for jobs. And I mean that in a good way. Like he would, you know, he was a product person who

1:00:14left on the got he, he didn't have the engineering knowledge, right? That I would expect that John Turner does. So you know, just different, different way of doing things. But I always felt like people were going to go back to our CEO as a product CEO. And you know, we're going to go with that, right? But that I was really intrigued by two other things that popped out to me. One was talking about he led the company's focus in reliability and durability to make Apple products resilient. It's just an interesting thing to point out. Like I'm not entirely sure why is something I think customers will like, right? And maybe there's like a right to repair kind of thing going on here. I'm not sure. And then also specifically calling out that he has worked very hard to reduce carbon footprint. And I was just pleased to see that because you never know. Like was that a Tim Cook thing, the carbon footprint stuff or not. But also, yeah, they're going to continue down that road. It's

1:01:19very funny. Somebody amassed it on. I think it was like they shared the link to this and was like, do you notice how does nothing about services? And it's like, well, I mean, yeah, I mean, he's a hardware engineer guys. There's not going to be a story about service. You know, as if he's like, ah, finally, the services will go away. It's like, yeah, right? No, no, no, it did. There's nothing about services because he has no services in his background. The same as Cook didn't either. But it's like, you know, what makes money? Services like, yeah, don't get yourself too excited. Yeah, I thought it was interesting. I was really interested. No, I agree with you. I'm very curious, as you said, to see how the event goes. I'm just excited. It's, I feel like there's a bigger conversation here that we don't have time for. But I feel like everyone or maybe it's just an American thing right now, but everyone is always crabby about everything. And that's just the, it's just the internet. It's just how the internet is. It's like, and it has been for a long time. Yep. So it's you, right? And it's me. It's like, you pay attention to the negativity. Now, it's just like a thing we do as humans, right? You just,

1:02:23yeah, yeah, yeah. The negativity is what we focus on. No, you're right. But I'm excited to have something that at least as I sit here now, a sweet summer child, I'm excited that this is something that I think could, and potentially even is likely to be a positive thing. And that's that's super exciting. But you made mention, and I'd want to come back, I'd like to come back around to it. There's an event next week, I believe, as we record this. And allegedly, we're getting out of the hole. You don't know. Time is, time is out of control for me right now. It's, it's all, it's all a mess. But yeah, go to go to the beach. No, no, we're not going to the beach. So anyways, I'm so sorry, that's not fair. Is it? No, it's, I mean, we went to the beach twice in this fair. No, I didn't take offense. I think of his fair. But anyway, the point on driving out is that we've got an event where the iPhone fold iPhone Ultra, what do you want to call it, is coming out allegedly. And I got to tell you, Mike, I need a little therapy for this from you, specifically. I, I really believe in my heart that I absolutely need to for my work. And I

1:03:26mean that mostly for ATP, but also for call sheet, I need to buy one of these folding phones and live with it for a while to see what I think of it. And I am on the surface excited about it, because I think that's different and interesting. But I don't think I want to go back to touch ID. And I really do not want to lose a telephoto lens. And I think I'm going to have to do both. And I'm not excited about that at all. Yeah, I think this phone is going to be missing a bunch of stuff, but it's going to be, you know, it's, it's different to the iPhone Air, right? But the iPhone Air didn't give you anything. This phone is going to give you something, something you don't have from your phone. And it's, it will, the benefit of that make you just not care about the things you're missing. That's going to be the real balance to tell. So that's what I'm excited about. Like I'm in the same boat as you. Like I'm expecting I will be buying two iPhones. Yeah, that thought is crossed my mind. I haven't spoken to Aaron about it, but I really wonder if I should get like two up front and then maybe return the one that I really don't like. You know what I

1:04:30mean? I don't know what I'm going to do. Well, you just keep up for them, you know, that's so much money, though. I agree with you. And you're probably right. But oh, it's so much. Yeah, but it's like, I agree. But it goes back to the for your work thing. Like, yeah, yeah. I mean, ultimately, this is just like a great way to spend your money to do your job. That's how I think about it. Like, people shouldn't do what we're doing, but people are doing what we're doing. You know what I mean? Like no one else should be buying two iPhones. You would just buy one and return it. But like, I'm planning to buy two because it's like, well, I'll have one for them. And I'll talk about for them. It's even if I don't, well, even if I didn't want it, I would get it, you know, like, because it's like, this is what I do for a living. And people will want to hear what you have to say about it, even if they don't want it themselves. I think that it is the responsibility of the work, you know? Yeah. And this is why I'm, well, I'm, I'm, I'm, let me finish my thought, but

1:05:30this is why I bought a Vision Pro is because I felt like it was my responsibility to do so. That being said, I really wanted one because I thought it was really cool. But the reason I justified it internally and also externally within the family was because I do think I needed it for my work. And honestly, to your point, I stand by that. I really think that that it was extremely helpful to have real lived extended experience with the, with the Vision Pro to talk about it. And I don't see why that wouldn't be applicable to the iPhone Fold, iPhone Ultra, whatever they end up calling it. So I do agree with you. I'm excited about it. I'm excited too. I mean, anytime you get something new, even, even in the case of the Vision Pro, which I stand by the hardware, but even like it is being in the glimpse of the future today, even though I haven't put mine on it while. But I think that having something new like that is always exciting. And it gives the two of us a lot of content.

1:06:31And I mean that both in the whole stupid influence away, but no, like legitimately, that gives us a lot of stuff to talk about in all of our shows. And I think that's really, really exciting. And I'm really looking forward to that. I just, I don't want to give up on my telephone or in my face ID. I'm sad, Mike. I'm mostly happy, but I'm also a little sad. Yeah, I mean, it's also a bit of a business to be your main phone. I'm planning, when I get out, I'll put my, I'll move my e-sim over and like, that's the phone I'm going to use, right? And then kind of go from there. And I'm, I want to like, immerse myself in it. What does it actually feel like more than just like playing with it? Like actually trying to use it. What habits do you build? How much of a benefit is it? And then am I then willing to like go with the things that I might be letting go of? Like, does a room that it won't have Max Safe? It's like, what are we doing? So you know, yeah, that will, yeah. If it doesn't have Max Safe, I'm going to be very, if the phone doesn't have Max Safe, it'll be in a case, which I won't be happy about because I don't want to use a case, but I would then use a case if that's because that's why I charge my phone.

1:07:33It's like, I'm not going to, I'm not going to buy all new charging stuff. Like, for my, like, my bedside, like, we've got to work this one out. Yeah, look, it's going to be weird. They're obviously very proud of it, right? They're obviously very proud of it, which is intriguing. Like, they've chosen, there's a reason John Ternos is becoming the CEO now. Like, they're very proud of this product. They're very proud of the products they've got coming up. Like, it's not just this. You know, I got, I had my government on Cortex and we were talking about this and he was saying, like, I mean, it's obvious in a way, but I like to hear it from him. Like, they aligned all of this because they want to tell the story of, here he is, his product guy. They're very proud of the next year products that they have. And so for them, this feels like the perfect time to do it, because they can tell the story of, look at us innovating. Look at what we're doing. Yeah. You know, when there have been times that people don't say that about them. And if they've now got a bunch of stuff that they're really proud of and they think it's going to be really good

1:08:35and they can sell, you know, they can sell really well. Like, it's the perfect time to have your product visionary take the stage. Good. And Apple, Apple is deliberate. It's not perfect, but it's deliberate. And I could not agree with you more. And this is a very deliberate, very, very deliberate choice with very deliberate timing. All right. This episode is also brought to you by our friends over at Squarespace, the All in One website platform. As a design to help you stand out and succeed online, whether you're just starting or scaling a business, Squarespace would give you everything that you need to claim your domain, showcase your offerings of a professional website, grow your brand, get paid All in One place. With Squarespace, you can get discovered fast of integrated SEO tools because why build a beautiful website for nobody to ever see it? That's why every Squarespace website is optimized to be indexed to method descriptions and ultra-generated site map and more. So more people can find your site through search engine results. I love how easy it is to build a great looking website with Squarespace. It's very easy to do. You can choose from exactly the way you want to model it. You can use their templates.

1:09:39You can use their blueprint system. And but then no matter how you get started, you can always go in and tweak to your heart's content. I really love that. It's also super great for sending out email campaigns. You know, we have been doing some of this recently and they make it super easy for you to just write campaigns like their blog posts and the mountains emails. You can still design them exactly the way that you want. You see how they look on phones. You see how they look on the desktop. They have all of the tools that are make like good decisions about that. Great analytics, all this stuff. It's really fantastic. It is a full solution for people building a business. Head to squarespace.com.snationanalog and you can send up for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use the offer code analog and you get 10% of your first purchase of a website or domain. That is squarespace.com.snationanalog and the code analog for 10% of your first purchase and to show you support for the show. Thanks to Squarespace for the support of this show and all of relay. Want to do some recommendations? Yes. And I would like you to go first, please. All right. I've got a couple of movies. I'm pretty sure I didn't talk about either of these on

1:10:40the show and apologies of them repeating either of them. They are both silly movies. They are they are not high brow. They are not fine cinema. They're just fun silly movies. The first is mutiny, which you may have seen in the news. It was I think released early on like Amazon Prime video or something like that and then it was taken down and now it's back up. Yeah, before is in the cinemas or something. Yeah, they're like appeared. Yep. So mutiny, very silly Jason Statham movie. I love Jason Statham. It is exactly what you would expect. Like Jason Statham on a boat doing Jason Statham things loved it. It was dumb. Like do not expect anything fancy here. It was very stupid. But if you're just if you just want something to like kind of wash over you and just enjoy it like a silly action movie, very much highly recommended. Similarly office romance. This is with Brett Goldstein who can do no wrong right now and Jennifer Lopez. It seems sort of scenario, but romantic comedy. Very silly. Don't think too much about it. Just let it wash over you.

1:11:43Very, very fun. And I think you were that you're paying attention to any content. You just everything is just washing over you right now. Well, no, I am paying attention to it. My point is if you're like one of those discerning individuals where you're really watching like you're locked in. These films are dumb. Like they're dumb, but in a good way. You know, yeah, I love that kind of stuff too, but it's just funny that you just like let it wash over you. Let it wash over. It's like everything is just washing over. Well, it's just it's sometimes you need like high brow and that's what I actually about what I'm about to get to and sometimes you just need to chill. So anyway, so both of those I think are highly recommended as long as you know what you're getting into right. And then finally my more high brow option dark matter, which there was a novel years ago written by Blake Crouch, which was incredible. And then they did the first season on Apple TV. You'd probably know better than me like a couple of years back, I think. And they just started dark matter season two. We have only earned and I have only seen one episode so far because we

1:12:44aren't cool and don't have screeners like you folks do. But so far so good. This is going, this is taking the story beyond where the novel did. So I wasn't really sure what to think of it. And granted it's only been, you know, 50 or 55 or 60 minutes of television so far that I've seen. So far so good. So I definitely recommend dark matter season one. And triply so if you're a reader, I absolutely recommend the book. But if you're caught up on dark matter season one, just FYI, dark matter season two is out. I haven't seen dark matter. It's on my list because Jason talks about it so highly as well. So it's one, it's in my queue. And I'm going to get to it very soon. I don't believe, no, I don't have access to it on this screen. Maybe I'll just email them and ask you now. I will say I will say nothing except I have seen all of the next series of slow horses. You know, I we've talked about this many times. I read the first slow horses did not like it. I have never given a TV show a chance and I need to and I love Gary Oldman. So I suspect I would have a very different opinion of the show. It's really good. I'm saying nothing about season six. I'm

1:13:49talking about one through five. It's I love slow horses. And I really recommend it. It's not one of my recommendations today, but it's an extra one, I guess. No, I need to try it. I need to try because I don't know a single person that has watched it that has anything but a glowing recommendation about it. I think they just proved a seventh season. So they just keep going with it. So people like it. It's a really good show. And it's it's actually made in London. It's like shot in London on London streets, which I think is. Of course, I love it. No, but it's like usually these things aren't done that way. Like you shoot in a city that can pass as, but I just like that they shoot in London because it's like it gives the correct feel for the show and makes the city a character in it or which is which is really great. It's not exclusively in London, but it isn't okay. I mean they're not always in London, but when they're in London, they're in London. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah. My recommendations. So I've been listening to the acquired podcast a couple of episodes.

1:14:52Yeah, I've heard a couple of these. Yeah, I've really liked them. They're not they're they're spiritually similar to the rest of history, but more business. Yeah, but business. Yeah, exactly. Like business history rather than history history. And yeah, I wanted to I wanted to listen to the two reasons one. They did two powerful Disney, which I really wanted to hear because I was intrigued about that. Oh, I'm not there that. And also, I've been hearing people talk about like you have had it in my queue forever. Steven's been a longtime listener of the show and recommends it to me. And I've just I've just never gotten into it because basically there are episodes are like four hours long each of them. Yeah, it's a lot. And because they essentially it's like what me and Jason are doing, but we're splitting it up into chunks, which they could do, but for some reason they don't do it that way. They seem to like to just do it all in in one huge chunk, which that is the way that they want to produce the show. And it's been obviously very successful for them.

1:15:52They have a huge listenership. It's very, very popular, very successful. And so, you know, that that like works for them. So, you know, there you go. And I didn't hearing a lot about it. And I wanted to listen to it. There was I was interested in Disney. So I was like, I'll give it a go. And also it's like I'm considering it as kind of like a market research. Realistically, topic wise, this is actually closer to what me and Jason are doing than the rest of the story. Yeah. Right. Because they're telling history stories about businesses, which is what we're doing. And they, you know, they will tell the entire history of a company in an episode, which is like funny for me because it's like, there's the difference in the way that me and Jason are doing it. Where we're telling this. We did the same amount of time. You know, like a four hour thing is just about how we go from Copeland to next. But like I can hear in the stories that they're doing because of the they want to tell it all at once. So they have some shows, some topics that have

1:16:55done over multiples, right? So Disney is two, they've done three parts on Google. They're each like four hours long, right? But anyway, they take it, they dig in with any tube. Anyway, all this to say, I like it. Like I think it's a, I think it's a very well research show. They clearly really care about it. They, they really focus on some stuff that just is not that interesting to me. Like they really care about capital expenditure, right? It is a business focus podcast by and large. And so there's well, like some of the things that they are really excited about. To me, it just like you care always too much about the revenue of this company. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because that's just what they care about, right? Like they, they are like they salivate over high revenue figures. But that's just their thing, right? Like it is essentially a business podcast made by people who worked. I think they both worked in like VC firms or something before. And then they started the show. It's been doing making it for 10 years. Like, you know, they, they've put the work in, they continue to put the work in. I think it is what they do now, both of

1:17:56them. They seem to do the vast majority, if not all of the research themselves. And it's why they're only release a few episodes. You know, they release one episode. There's like three episodes of season or something. And they're like tied to like calendar, calendar seasons, like they're, you know, like spring. Oh, but yeah, they have, it's fascinating. Their business model is fascinating. And I've listened to, I've listened to and really enjoyed two parts on Disney and the Mars episode, the like chocolate company. That's just like a really weird story of a business. Yeah, I like it. There's like an earnestness to the show that sometimes I find a little bit like too earnest. But like I think that they could be a little more skeptical, but you know, you can go too far. And if they clearly enjoy it, like it's infectious. And so yeah, I really do recommend it. I think find something you're interested in from their back catalog and give it a go. But I do recommend the Disney episodes and the Mars episodes. Very cool. Excellent. New show called lanterns on HBO. I don't know anything

1:19:02about this. Okay, you know Green Lantern. Yeah, it's Green Lantern. Oh, okay. This is what if true detective, but superhero? I never saw true detective, but I'm familiar with what you're speaking of. Yeah, I'm sorry. I guess it's like procedural crime thing, let's say, focused around the lantern call. I'm looking at the Wikipedia page which you put in our internal show notes. Damon Lindelof, you say. Yeah, man. And it feels interesting. Okay, see. Say less. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's the vibe of like this is serious stuff where the story is not linear. You know what? Like you're seeing things that later are like, oh, that's why that happened. It feels a lot like watchman. I am bringing this to the show specifically to recommend it to you if you haven't seen it. It's brilliant. This is like, there's been three episodes. It is like top tier HBO stuff. Like, yes, it's focused around superheroes, but like in the same way that

1:20:03watchman was like, it's not that important. Like, and the Green Lantern story is really fascinating. Like, they they they is very interesting way of doing things. Yeah, I I really, really, really like it a lot. Oh, I just read that it was actually inspired by the detective and slow horses. Hmm. Oh, Nathan fillions in it. No way. That's fun. I mean, he hasn't been in it yet. So, Oh, sorry. Spoilers, but Nathan that fillion is a Green Lantern in a Superman movie. So I expected he would be in it. Interesting. I didn't know that. Huh. Well, that's fascinating. I am definitely going to have to check this out because I haven't seen everything that Linda Lofa's done, but I've seen a handful of like a couple of things. I did the leftovers. I don't think I know the leftovers, which I believe was his. He did lost. He did lost, which I never saw. The leftovers I loved, even though I couldn't really explain why, but I really liked it nevertheless. And God, I love watchman so freaking much. I love it. I don't know how I don't know if he is involved in this in

1:21:06the way that he was in watchman. Like he is a producer in this show. Like I feel like watchman was like his thing. Yeah, but it's also says created by I don't I don't understand, right? Like, I don't know how this thing works. So I say it say he is very involved. I don't know. Before we move on from this, what is the required like I'm not trying to slag on the MCU, but you know how the MCU can get you don't know anything. Wonderful. I love you. Yeah, you just go into it. You just you just knowing that there is superheroes is kind of all you need to know because of all like I don't I did not know a lot of the Greenland on story. They do a very good job of telling you the information you need. And every now and then they'll throw something in like someone references a place that they grew up and you're like, I know that place. I just did you tangentially familiar with some DC comic books. But to this point, it is not I mean, look, maybe they're going to do something before the season. So I mean, well, there is one thing. I just mentioned it, right?

1:22:07You said Nathan Philly and Senate. Well, he hasn't been in the show yet. However, HBO is using his face as promotion. So I assume it's only momentarily until we appears. Sure. Sure. Like, and the HBO app, it's it says lanterns is a picture of Nathan Philly and right, like, is the card. He's not been in the show. So like, what are we doing? But there you go. But he is a Green Lantern in the DC universe. He was the Green Lantern in Superman. So and I don't know if he's in Supergirl, maybe, maybe not, but he was in the Superman movie and he was fantastic. But yeah, so but Kyle Chandler is the lead in this. He was from Friday night lights. This is what people know him a lot for, but he was also really great in the Wolf of Wall Street, which is one of my favorite movies. And then Aaron Pierre, who I don't know him, he has had a very, like his resume is very good. Like he was Mufasa and the Lion King. So in the 24 one, he played Malcolm X in the movie Genius. Like, he's, you know, he's been in a lot of stuff. He is

1:23:10brilliant and also incredibly handsome. So if you like it also, and also a Londoner, so of course, oh, come on now. I didn't even know that this guy's got a career ahead of him. Like he has got a career. He is fantastic in this show. Yeah, it's really good fun. It's really good fun. And also what is Kelly McDonald, who was in boardwalk empire. She's also in this show. It was very good. This is a good time. That's good stuff. No, I had no idea. This was the thing. None. Like there's nothing about the Green Lantern story or most DC stories that really revs my engine. But man, when you say it's got the vibe of Watchman, whether or not that's little off's fault, if it's got the vibe of Watchman, sign me up. It's got some components of Watchman where the story is really complicated and there are big things that play. So yeah. All right, I'm in. I'll give it a shot. I may not be for like a year knowing me, but I'll give it a

1:24:11shot. All right. Anything else you got that you have for us? No, I don't think so. Oh, actually, no, I do. I have one more. Sorry. I have one more. I forgot this in the document. So there was an eclipse recently. Yes, I did not witness it myself, but I'm aware of what you speak. I got to see some of it. But the wave form podcast, that's mkbhd's podcast and with mkbhd, Andrew Mang Gnelli, I'm forgetting everybody's names now. Yeah, it's all right. Ellis, Roven, Adam, I forgot an Adam surname. I really like Adam a lot. So if we're really bad, I'm forgetting everybody's names. It's very unfortunate for me. And I'm gonna like, I think around. Well, because I've started now. So I feel like I need to finish. David Amel. Yes. The anyway, I'm gonna move on. They went to Spain to record a podcast during the eclipse. Oh, that's funny. It's brilliant. And the whole episode is just talking about eclipses, clips, facts, eclips information. And then during the show, the full eclipse happens.

1:25:15And they have cameras on it. And they have cameras that are set to be able to record, like, to show it, which is good. Like they kind of like set them up. So you'd be able to properly see the eclipse. That is brilliant. And they're hearing them freak out and stuff when it actually happens. It is a very, very fun time. Obviously, you will need to watch this episode. Like, there's an audio podcast too, but I don't know why you would listen to the audio of this. So I'll put the YouTube link in the show notes. I also just really like Wi-Fi. I listen to it every week. It's a good time. That's excellent. No, I will definitely be checking some of this out.