29. The Virtue of Self Knowledge (w/Dr. Jim Taylor)

At Become New, get 10 minutes of spiritual formation every weekday with John Orberg.

There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

We're learning how to give up condemning during this Lenten season.

If there's anybody on the planet that I would not want to condemn, it's my friend Jim Taylor,

who I'm talking to right now. Jim, thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you, John. It's great to be here. I love this show. I love you.

And it's wonderful to be in this conversation with you.

Jim and I actually lived in the same little bungalow in Pasadena many, many years ago.

We were both students at Fuller Seminole. We didn't live at the same time,

but it was the same bungalow. He was way smarter than me, so he went on to become a philosopher,

taught for many decades at Westmont College. Now we're going to talk about no condemnation

and how we pursue that. But first, Jim is working with our little team at Become New,

and we are creating a spiritual formation newsletter. Jim, I would love for people to hear

about that from you, because you're really going to point on this project.

Yeah, thank you, John. I love this newsletter and working on it. As a former professor of philosophy

at Westmont Christian Liberal Arts College, I think of the bi-weekly formation newsletter

as a kind of Christian Liberal Arts education in spiritual formation. We've got all the disciplines

represented from the human sciences of psychology and sociology to philosophical and theological

reflections on spiritual formation from a biblical standpoint. And even at the end of each issue,

an appeal to the arts, film, music, fiction, poetry, as resources to enrich our journey along the

path of growth and Christlikeness. And as far as we know, there's not really a newsletter that's

designed to keep people posted on what's going on in all of those fields that's relevant for spiritual

formation. And so you have it here, and it costs way, way less than a Liberal Arts College education.

Yes, quite a bit less. That's true. It's free. Yeah, it's free, actually. So, yeah. Okay, so,

if you're interested in that, you can find out about it from Become New. We've been doing a beta

version for a while and it'll go more public soon, but wanted you all to hear about that from Jim.

Now, Jim, we were talking about this business of condemnation and how do I become the kind of person

that doesn't condemn others? And you were talking to me about this little book,

intellectual virtue, that there's certain virtues that have to do with the life of the mind.

Tell us a little bit about what is an intellectual virtue, and then I want to tie it to

how can the pursuit of that help us to be non-judgmental, non-condemning people?

Well, you know, the first thing I want to say, John, about intellectual virtue is that it's not

only for intellectuals. It's really for all of us. intellectual virtue has to do with just being

a good person. One dimension, along with moral character and spiritual character, is that intellectual

part of us. And just as moral virtue, a morally virtuous person is someone who is good at loving

well, an intellectually virtuous person is someone who is good at thinking and knowing well.

So, intellectual virtues would be things like... Well, sometimes it's a matter of taking the

moral virtues like courage and humility and applying them to the intellectual life.

So, but it has to do with focusing on seeking the truth. And so, for instance, intellectual courage

would be the courage to pursue the truth even if you're afraid of what you might find out.

So, for instance, someone might believe something only because their tribe thinks it's true,

and not have the courage to consider another possibility because they may be rejected by their

peers if they come to believe something else. So, to become the kind of person that loves truth,

and loves knowledge, and knows God, those tasks are not just purely, quote unquote,

intellectual tasks like a computer could do. They require a kind of character.

It's really a deep dimension of being human. We are knowers, as well as doers and feelers,

and so forth. And, you know, every intellectual virtue is a combination of a skill and a desire.

And so, it's not just about loving knowledge, it's about being able to find it.

For instance, we might think of every of intellectual virtue in general as being composed of the

combination of practical wisdom and discernment, which is a kind of skill, and the love of knowledge

and wisdom and truth, which is a desire. So, let's apply that now to the journey that we're on,

trying to let go of condemning other people. And I don't know that I've ever heard you condemn

somebody as far as I know, you do not seem to be a terribly judgmental person.

Is that something that you've rustled with? And how does this idea of wanting to grow in

something like intellectual virtue help us become people who are less condemnatory?

Well, John, I'm glad that you haven't noticed my condemning attitudes. I try to keep them inside,

but I have to say, as you've shared yourself in this series, I wrestle with judgmental thoughts

about people. And again, there's nothing wrong with evaluating people as you point it out.

It's when you have an attitude of ill will towards someone, and even possibly disgust,

which diminishes their humanity. And I think that's what Jesus had in mind in the

sermon of the Mount in Matthew 7. You've commented on that passage before.

Same more about that passage, yeah. Well, that's where Jesus says, don't judge so that you won't be

judged. And it seems pretty clear by the end of that that he has this kind of condemning judgment

in mind, but not every form of judgment. Because it goes on to say, if you take the log out of

your own eye, then you'll be in a position to see the spec that is in your neighbor's eye and

help them take that spec out. I think that we can read what he's saying there as an invitation to

exercise a couple of intellectual virtues, one of which is the intellectual virtue of self-knowledge.

And that's where someone has the honesty and the humility and the courage to take a good

look at themselves and to be willing to see the faults that they have. And I think that,

I think Jesus wisely knew that the doing that would put one in a better position

to have the intellectual virtue of discernment towards others to be able lovingly and gently

to help them to see ways in which they can improve. So thinking about self-knowledge or self-awareness,

you know, you spent most of your working life in a college setting. So your colleagues are people

of significantly above average IQ. And they're generally folks that have lots and lots of knowledge.

Does having a lot of knowledge generally equate to having a lot of self-knowledge also?

No, tragically it doesn't. There are, in history, and I won't mention any names, but people around

the world today and even in their own neck of the woods here who are very smart and very knowledgeable,

but not very intellectually virtuous. You know, maybe they've got great memories and they can think

quickly and, you know, they're good critical thinkers. But they're not very intellectually generous or

charitable or fair-minded. And really, that's all of those other things for what you need.

Not just for intellectual skill, but intellectual virtue. And again, it has to do really with loving

the truth and generally loving others. So one more question I'm thinking for folks who are

listening to us today and thinking, well, I would like to know myself. Now maybe a part of me

doesn't want to know myself because I'm afraid of what I would see or what I would learn. But if

at least to some extent I know I will be a better person, I'll be a better friend, I will be

better in my family situation. If I have awareness of myself and see the truth, you know, get the

plank out of my eye so that I'm able to see myself. How do people pursue that? What's the wise

course of action for somebody who wants to move in that direction? But they're wondering right now,

what do I do today? To be more self-aware by the end of the day than I'm right now?

You know, John, that's a great question because all the virtues, whether they're morally

intellectual, are developed, well, first of all, we don't start being virtuous and we have to develop

them, we have to grow into them. And the means by which we do that is to engage in certain kinds

of practices. And I think that when it comes to developing the kind of self-knowledge we need

to love God and to love others, the most important things we can do, I think it ought to start with

prayer. You've often mentioned what is its Psalm 132, you know, search me and know me and reveal my

identity. Search me and know my heart. I think it's 139, yeah, exactly.

139, yep, that's it. So I think really starting with prayer to ask God and to reveal

your shortcomings, your faults, your sins so that you can be in a better position to know

how much you need to grow in loving God and loving others. How much you need to take care of

yourself before you try to take care of others? Yeah. And in your own experience with that,

is that something to be done on a pretty regular basis? How do you learn to listen to Him well?

Do you find God kind of saying, hey, Jim, knock on the door? Here's what's going on? Are there

nudges like that? How do you receive wisdom from Him? Great, great question. Yeah. You know,

it's really a daily process and really a lifelong daily process. And it's not just a matter of

sitting around waiting for God to speak. It's a matter, I think, of not just praying and asking God

to speak, but trying to go throughout the day to be mindful and attentive and aware, tuned in

to the voice of the Spirit and trying to learn how to notice those little nudges and

and you know, God's gentle voice kind of drawing you in that direction. Yeah, that's super

helpful. Any other thoughts for somebody that's wanting to do that? So to pray today, to listen to

God through the day? You know, I'd say it's some people I know that not everybody and maybe

somebody really close to you doesn't love journaling, but journaling to investigate inwardly

introspectively what's going on, you know, would be a helpful resource and basis on which to pray,

you know, to offer God these things in prayer, help help God help me to understand myself,

help me with your spirit to change myself on the basis of this reflection I'm engaging in.

Well, Jim, thank you so much. I want to take a moment for everybody watching us right now. Let's

just pause and do that right here. Jim, you're at a gorgeous setting with what look like oranges behind

you and I'm going to say I like quite a lot, but wherever you are, God, would you search me and know

me? Would you try me and know my anxious thoughts? See, if there's any offensive way in me,

leave me in the way everlasting. As much as I'm able to bear at God, help me to know myself today,

help me to see the plank, help me to take it out. Amen. Jim Taylor, thank you so much. I'm so

grateful for you. Thank you, John. It's been a pleasure. Hey, did you have a takeaway from that

teaching? Don't keep it to yourself, share it in the comments or text it to us or email it to us

we would love to hear from you. My name is Tim. I'm a part of the team here at Become New

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