486 - In This World with Ellen Adair (The Housemaid, Take Me In To The Ballgame)

Here we go.

Infinite lives.

We got infinite lives.

Never say never.

We gonna live forever.

Bye.

Party people.

Welcome to the Party of One Podcast.

The actual Play RPG Podcast where the gaming table

is always set for two.

Party people, it is one of my favorite days of the year.

Today, we're releasing this podcast March 26th, 2026.

It is opening day for my beloved Philadelphia Phillies

and to celebrate all things baseball.

We have a very special baseball sports loving episode

for you today.

I'm sitting down with Ellen Adair for a game

of in this world.

Ellen is an actor, a writer, a visual artist,

a baseball analyst.

You can catch them right now in the house made

with Sidney Sweeney and Amanda Saferead.

You can also catch them on the take me

into the ball game podcast where they review baseball moves

and shows on the 2080s scale.

And Ellen and I both being baseball fans

and Phillies fans, we're excited to dig into the world

of sport and what sport means to us as people

in a world building game of in this world by Ben Robbins.

In this world is a fast game of big creativity.

It is designed for you to quickly spin up world

after world of what if scenarios made by challenging

the core assumptions of the world that we live in.

It is a wonderful way to talk about the concepts

in the world you find interesting

or frustrating or challenging or fascinating

and flip those things on their head to wonder

what if this was different.

It's an incredibly beautiful game.

I had such fun playing with.

I can't wait for you to hear the episode.

You can find more information about the game

as well as everything that Ellen has going on

in the show notes.

And with all that said, let's go ahead

and throw it over to me in the past

so that he can get started with the show.

Take a pass, me.

Thanks, you're me.

I'm really excited today.

I'm sitting down with Ellen Adair.

Ellen, thanks so much for coming on party of one.

Oh my goodness, my pleasure.

I'm thrilled.

This is going to be a wonderful recording.

I've got the game in front of me.

I think it's going to be an absolute blast.

But before we get into the game that we're playing today,

why don't you take a moment, let our lovely listeners

at home know about what you got going on

that you want them to know about.

Sure.

So the next thing that a person can see my face in

is the house made, which is a movie that I believe

is coming out in December with Sydney,

and Amanda Saferead.

And you can see my hand in the trailer, very exciting.

And the other thing that I have had going on recently

is I have a few different films that I co-wrote

that have been on the festival circuit.

So one of them is a horror comedy called Damned If You Do.

It's a dark comedy with some horror elements,

as perhaps how to more accurately describe it.

But there are a lot of folks from the horror

and horror comedy world in it, Kate Siegel

and of the sort of Mike Flanagan-Ivers

and Harvey Gann of what we do in the shadows

are a couple of the leads.

We also have Ginger Gonzaga, Paula Costanzo

and Beth Dover in the other lead parts

and other amazing actors like Ed Weeks

and Molly Bernard in the ensemble.

It's really an incredible cast of people

that we were able to get for our movie.

It's pretty surreal.

So that recently played at ScreenFest in LA

and at FilmQuest in Provo, Utah

and where the film was nominated for a bunch of awards,

including Best Screenplay and One for Best Ensemble,

which was very exciting.

That's amazing, congratulations.

Thanks, thanks.

So there's not a place for folks to watch it yet,

but there is an Instagram account damned if you do movie

if you are interested in this

and you just want updates on like,

when can we finally see the film?

And so yeah, you can follow that Instagram account.

And then the other film, very different vibes,

is called Coming Out Polyamorous for Thanksgiving,

which is adapted from Alex Alberto's book in Twine.

So Alex was just looking for somebody

to help them adapt part of their memoir into a film.

And I was like, I would love to do that.

So I am in that one.

That film hilariously also won Best Ensemble

at the Chain Film Festival in New York City.

So I actually feel good about having written a couple of movies

that give a lot of different people opportunities to shine.

And that movie is going to be available to watch.

I believe as of this Thanksgiving.

So yes, if you're curious to watch that film,

it will be online very soon.

That's so exciting.

That's wonderful.

And like it is, I mean, as somebody that has produced works,

has judged works, like there is something really powerful

and magical to, there is a distinct needle

to thread when it comes to, or that's the phrase, right?

That's the way out there, right?

Yeah.

There's this thing needle to thread when it comes to,

there's a lot of people, like giving a lot of people

that spotlight and making sure that's so exciting to hear.

And to hear that it happened twice

in such a short time frame really does kick ass.

Thanks.

Yeah.

So my husband and I, Eric Gildey, wrote the feature,

Dan, if you do, together, and it was something

that we were really mindful of, that we wanted,

even if the character only had a couple of lines,

for there still to be something really fun for that actor to do,

right?

Because I think we as actors have all had parts

where we're pure functionalities.

And we just exist to like serve somebody else's story.

And that's part of the job, and that's fine.

But that it's definitely more fun.

And I think the vibe on set was, everybody

was really excited to be there because everybody felt like

there was something that they could sink their teeth into.

And I think that energy comes across on screen

when it feels like you're not just delivering a line

for the sake of, for the sake of this needed a spot

on the page, but, and also I think, personally,

I think it adds an element of realism to a story

because everybody does have their own weird little thing

going on.

It's everybody's, everybody, and being able to see all

of that on screen just like makes it feel,

makes it feel that much more alive and vibrant.

It part because you can tell everybody's having fun with it.

Yeah, and I think that in some ways,

I'm not going to get more into it

because that might sort of become a spoiler,

but I think that's actually a sort of a thematic element

of the film as well, interestingly, so.

So we've got a great game in front of us today

that we are going to play.

This is, and this is in this world,

a small game of big ideas by Ben Roberts in this world.

This is a game about imagining the worlds that could be.

The intro text, nations have borders, police carry badges,

dragons, brief fire, you work for money,

that's the world we expect.

But what if some of those things were different?

We're going to make and explore a world together,

and in this world, we can question things,

imagine alternatives, and instead of making just one world,

we're going to make several.

So don't worry that what we create is not what you want.

You'll have more opportunities to create

other possibilities later.

Now, you gave me a lot of great information

to go off of when I was digging into games.

Talk to me about what it is about alternate universes

and parallel worlds, and what if possibilities

that's really been on your mind lately?

Oh, I think it's been on my mind for my entire life.

I almost couldn't quite tell you why it feels so,

so always so like juicy to me,

the idea of parallel realities.

I'm reading a friend's script right now

that also deals with parallel realities,

and I'm just like, oh, yes, hack, yes.

And I mean, I think some of it is,

if I can just go ahead and start to get really,

really weird immediately in your podcast.

I would ask for nothing less.

I'm truly a weird human being.

And I identify the reason that I feel like I need

to be an actor and a writer or actor or a writer

because I feel homesick for the parts of myself

that I don't get to be,

but that I think I still am.

Or perhaps it's the parts of myself

if you want to sort of go in a past lives direction

with this that I like a slightly remember,

but don't quite remember, I think,

that we all have some latent sense

of the infinity that we were once part of

before we decided to come back to this earth

and be like, okay, I'm gonna give it another try

and see what I learned this time.

And so I think that that's why the idea of like

some other reality that's like living alongside ours

is so incredibly potent to us.

And I think sometimes that can take the idea

as like there's a magical realm,

like living right alongside ours.

And sometimes that's like, oh, well, actually

there's multiple timelines,

but I think anything and when I was sort of

emailing you about this before we were so lucky

as to get to talk face to face through our computers.

Anything that's like parallel realities,

I'm immediately just like more interested in, right?

So severance is not like, ooh, it's magical,

but like it is actually a parallel reality thing.

The notion that there's some other version of ourselves

that's like just beyond the film frame

of the edges of what we can see, right?

But we feel that, like we feel all of that infinity.

I think I feel it very acutely.

And I don't think that I'm the only person

for whom that is the case,

but I just feel aware of it every day of my life.

I love this.

I love this.

And to your earlier, to your point at the start

of that statement, if that's getting weird,

I would like to stay at that level of weird

for the next hour because that that that shit is magical.

Okay, great.

I'm, yeah, I, what are, let me ask you this,

like what is a, you mentioned severance,

what are the other, what are the other like recent,

like all reality, all timeline, all world,

possibility, you know, media or stories or what have you,

what else has been like on your mind lately

as we kind of start to like approach text

and there's a process to us building these fantasy worlds,

but like what else has been on your mind lately?

Um, well, some of these things, okay,

so I have a really terrible memory.

And for a long time, I just thought it was because

I was morally weak and then I learned that it was

because I had been taking a very like horse-powered,

powered level allergy medication for like 30 years

of my life linked to very severe memory loss.

So anyway, I remember that I loved things.

And yet if you, if, if I'm responsible

to tell you specifically what happened in them,

I'm not gonna be able to remember.

But I do know like I loved the movie,

everything everywhere all at once,

like when I watched it, I was like,

oh, I am, and I can think many things are excellent

without being like really disappointed

that I didn't write it,

but I was like, I'm so disappointed

that I didn't write this.

And I also felt that way about,

there was a TV series called Maniac

that I just like loved.

And this was, I don't know, some might even be like

pre-pandemic at this point.

It was a long time ago.

I haven't seen the second season of Loki,

but the first season of Loki, I was like, yes,

this is my favorite marble thing I've ever seen

because they're like finally fucking with the main thing

that I wanna fuck with.

I felt that way about Russian doll.

Sure, sure, sure.

And like, so one of my favorite novels,

I am also though, I have nothing published yet.

I am also a novelist,

and one of my favorite novels of all time

is David Mitchell's Cloud Atlas,

which I think very much is like the sort of parallel realities,

even though they're kind of moving forward in time

and he's doing, I mean, the movie is trash,

but like the book is, I think, 21st century masterpiece.

And another one of my 21st century masterpieces

is Kate Ackinson's Life After Life,

which is basically about a woman who can,

who keeps restarting her life from the same point.

And just kind of, she's not, she doesn't really remember,

but she's slightly porous somehow to what's happened before.

Like she's kind of like, I have the sense

that I should do this now, but I don't know why.

Anyway, it's one of my favorite books.

So I don't, I don't know that those are things

that have been specifically on my mind,

except for insofar as like the two novels

that I'm working on right now,

or also parallel realities.

Yeah.

Fantastic.

We're gonna sit down and we're gonna build a world.

And the way that that's gonna work is, you know,

we are going to pick a topic that we want to explore.

This is like the center of the game.

This is a big picture topic that we are going to examine

how the world changes often to an unrecognizable state.

If we tweak the minor details and truths of that world,

examples of that.

If you open the game book and go to page nine,

there are examples and it's things like art, holidays,

education, religion, sports, war, shopping.

You know, is there a big picture topic

that you are interested in like dissecting and staring at

and like imagining what happens to the world

if we fuzz with this one sort of overarching topic?

I mean, there's also randomly choose some things

if that's exciting.

Yeah, I will say that like, you know,

I think two of the most interesting things in the world

to me are art and religion.

So I'd already thought of those.

They feel very, very large.

I, you know, clothing also strikes me as interesting

and like maybe a little bit more manageable.

I had also thought about sports.

Sports as me is always on my brain as the thing.

Like I will, it's maybe the most Jeff answer on the list

and maybe the most predictable answer.

Like it is, it is right there.

Sports, clothing, art are the ones that like I'm like

floating towards and like sometimes we have to recognize

that when we are not just on our bullshit

but we are fully indulging in our bullshit

and those are the ones that like I am circling around.

I mean, I feel like you responded so strongly to sports

that I'm here for that.

Let's look at the world.

Let's look at the world of sports

and how sports changes.

What changes in the world when we change elements of sports?

So we've got our topic.

This is the thing that we are going to be like dancing around.

This is the thing that we are going to be examining.

What are the elements of this?

Like the subtopics, you know, if your topic is cities,

elements include roads, buildings, neighborhoods,

utilities, houses, mass transit, people.

What are the, what are the subtopics here

that what are the component pieces that excite you

about sports as a concept?

The thing I'm going to put on the board immediately is

when competition is too broad

and I'm trying to like find the like tribalism is very good.

I was going to throw in like I'm going to put down

myth-making.

Sure.

Myth-making feels very like it's,

the ability, you know, there is this,

there is this inherentness to sport of.

We are built like it is individual events

that are that naturally become a narrative.

Like there's something about that that is fascinating to me

when I look at sports the way that we engage in sports

and it's not just one game.

It is the story of a game and a player and a team

and a place all kind of at the same time.

Well, the very first thing that I was thinking

and I was like, is this just too esoteric to be helpful?

Is that sports is a narrative that we cannot predict?

Right?

So we go to fiction often because we have some kind of a sense

of like we know what the ending is probably going to be,

even if it's like it's going to be a good ending

or it's going to be a bad ending.

We kind of have a sense of what the narrative building blocks

are going to be and we can predict and as a matter of fact,

it is like sometimes helpful for us of just being like,

it's okay, I know I'm in a movie right now

where like the ending is not going to be terrible, right?

People, it's just it's the latter half of act two

and everything's going wrong on purpose

in order for there to be a resolution in act three

and like I know that's what's going to happen

and in sports you don't have that.

I think that's the most important thing

that sports does for us in a way.

Yeah, I wrote down unpredictability as sort of a root

of that of this idea that like you're right, we can't know

and when paired with that idea of like we are building

the story kind of bit by bit, there's a there's a power

and a magic in that.

There's also a community tribalism

like kind of encompasses community, but like almost,

this is maybe the maybe not the right word,

like this is maybe a heavy or a more loaded word

than I want to go with, but like voyeurism,

like there's a there's an element of like,

and there is, you know, in most sports,

there is an audience, you know what I mean?

Like it is an observed thing.

Like there is not just the person playing the game,

there is the competition, I'm also gonna write just,

I'm just as we as we chat, I'm brainstorming words,

like there's the competition element

of the people playing the thing,

but then there's also this element of like,

I am invested in the experience of watching,

like I, it's the, it's, it's both the tired joke of like,

well, you aren't really on the field,

so like you're not really a part of the team,

but like also the very real sense of like,

yeah, I kind of am and I can't explain it,

because I'm just watching it happen,

but like I am a part of this experience

in a very fundamental way.

Yes, this is really interesting,

because I often think that like something that is made

does not become an art until somebody else receives it.

It's just the thing you did for a while, right?

So like, if I write a novel and nobody reads it,

not even my mom, I mean, I love you mom, you're the best,

but like if nobody ever reads it, it's not a novel,

it's like a, it was a therapeutic thing

that I did to enjoy myself,

which I do really enjoy writing,

so I'm not being facetious there.

So however, I don't know if I agree

about whether or not sports is that as well,

like if two people are playing tennis

and nobody's watching them, is it still sports?

I think maybe it is,

but I think that's because there are two people.

I think if one person's like hitting a ball

against the wall themselves and practicing,

it's maybe not sports, right?

Like if you're going on a bicycle ride by yourself,

even if you're training for the Tour de France,

I think that's not sports.

I think it means at least two people.

So there is a communication element to sports.

Yeah.

And the other thing that I would say to what you were saying

is one of the other first things that occurred to me

is catharsis.

Catharsis is really good.

Is a really important way that like many people

in our society allow themselves to feel things.

And I feel like I see it when I go to a baseball game,

the people who are there because they love baseball

and they happen to feel things along the way.

And like look, it's still catharsis for them.

And then the people who are like,

I am just here to be mad.

Like for sure.

You know what I mean?

And so like I'm just or like if not to be mad

to be like really ferociously victorious

in the face of the people who have lost

and surrounding fans of the opposing team who are sad.

Like some people, that's why they go to sports.

And I'm not shaming them.

I'm saying like it's serving an important societal function.

I listen, listen, I've been at Philly Sports Games.

I get it.

I understand the vibe.

I've seen these things.

But like the catharsis of like I think that catharsis,

we're getting at a lot of really interesting things.

Because I think about that catharsis of being out

on the street at like 11, 30 midnight and hearing

like a swirl of trolley horns and feeling the energy.

Like all of the things that we've called out,

the tribalism, the myth making, the catharsis.

Like the thing I think about that the memory

that most comes to mind and like the combination

of all of that is I remember watching the Super Bowl in 2018.

When the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I remember watching.

And I remember we were like the TV on a delay.

28, that's why I thought was the 2017 season, 2018 Super Bowl.

And I remember like the TV is on a delay.

So we're watching the game.

There's about like two minutes left.

And I just hear like a roar, like a wave crash

over my apartment of people screaming

and looking at my wife and going,

oh fuck, we just won the Super Bowl.

Like and knowing that like there's a delay

and that like we were not seeing the moment

but that like the city was realizing it in real time

and like feeling the catharsis of we have experienced a thing

that no one in the city has ever experienced before.

And the thing that like, you know,

I think every, every person that I know in the city

has a story of I had a family member

that like has been waiting for the,

had been waiting for that moment their whole lives

or like somebody that like never got to see this.

And so like this was for them.

Like all of that at that energy is something

that I want to like examine and play with

because I think it's incredibly powerful

and there's an incredibly powerful magic there on some level.

I think community is different from tribalism

and I think they should both be on the board.

I think they're both really important.

And I think it's not just community.

I want to throw the word family in there

and I have two different meanings for this.

I think like I'm not gonna name any names

but there are members of my family

where like it's truly the only thing

that we can actually talk about is sports, right?

And so I feel like it is and and I don't have a conversation

with either my mom or my dad, my parents are divorced

without us talking about the Phillies.

Like it will happen.

And simultaneously because I people are often like,

oh, Ellen, you know, why do you love baseball?

And the answer that I have to give them is like, I don't know.

I don't remember not loving baseball.

I don't remember not loving the Phillies.

The only thing that I have loved

for the same duration I yield longer than I can remember

is my actual family.

And so it's why I, you know, have this unhealthy love

of baseball and of the Phillies in particular

is like it's a weird thing where I feel like they're my family.

These people who like don't know me at all

but I'm still like feel like when they fail,

I feel like my family has failed.

Yes.

And that is the amount of sadness that I experience.

And there is the piece of family

that the thing about the detail of family

that is like relevant or resonant to me is like,

Jen and I have a tradition that I've started doing anytime

I fly somewhere and I'm about to fly home,

which is I will wear either,

I will wear like my Philly sports gear,

either a Philly shirt or an Eagle shirt,

I'll wear something to the airport.

And without fail, there will be a moment

where the airport is being the airport.

And like it is the most miserable experience

that we have managed to engineer.

And like there will be a moment of like abject misery

where I'll see someone is having the worst day imaginable.

And I'll be at the gate and I'll see them having this day

and they will lock eyes with my shirt

and like wherever we are in the world,

they will see that shirt and like you'll see just

the slightest like sigh of relief of home.

Like that thing on that shirt is home.

And getting a go birds or a go fields at the airport

when you're in like when you're in another state

and other time zone, magical.

Because at that moment we are in this together

and there is like a family and a community energy

that comes from that of like we're never going to speak again.

There is no world where we interact after this

but like we recognize there is a commonality here

and that is a thing that we share in this moment

that I think is incredibly powerful.

Yes, yes, yeah.

Okay, so we've got a lot of things on the board.

We've got a lot of concepts on the board.

What are some statements that are true about sports

that would be fun to change?

Examples are cities have roads, weddings are planned,

teachers are paid professionals,

food comes from plants are animals,

police carry badges, things like things that are basically

largely overwhelmingly true statements.

What are some facts about these or some facts about sports

that we can imagine what the world looks like differently

if we were to change those sentences?

Well, something that I was thinking about

that we hadn't mentioned,

I think as we were very much talking about the fan experience

but that I think is a key part of sports

and I wonder if there's a way to formulate this best.

But like sports are played by people

who are physically gifted.

Sports are skill based.

I think is even like a,

it's like a, because you've got something like a,

there's this idea, that idea of like you are inherent,

like it is a, that's that competition element of like

this is a thing you are inherently good at.

Yes, I understand that there are things that are like sports

that like I don't consider sports like card games.

I'm not trying, but just like it just doesn't,

it feels like I totally get people

being really interested to watch

or the people I play poker, that's fine.

It still doesn't feel like a sport to me somehow.

But yes, I get that like that is a skill.

It's not like a physical skill.

Yeah.

And you know that some,

some sports require greater like physical gifts

than other ones do.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I'm not,

I, it's a thing I love about baseball

that it can be a democracy of bodies, right?

That there can be a lot of different like sizes

and shapes of people who can still play baseball.

One of the uniquely beautiful things about baseball

is, is that exact thing?

It is a, it is a, it is a sport where you see,

you see body types that you don't see

on a lot of the other pro sports.

And for that, I treasure it dearly.

What else, what else do we want to,

I mean, sports have winners and losers

isn't quite the, like that,

I'm, there's something there that I'm poking at.

I'm trying to find the right statement

to really like reimagine there.

But I feel like that's key, right?

Like there's not, it's not a sport

where like everybody wins, right?

Like that's something else.

That becomes a different thing.

Yeah, um, I, you know what it can be,

you know what I, you know what actually saying that,

which is like, um, sports can be mastered.

I think is the sentence that is,

is the evolution of sports, sports have winners and losers.

You can be the best at a sport.

Like you can learn, you can, you know,

it is, you know, it is, it is all,

it is difficult to do so, but like you could

be the best at a sport.

You could, you could physically and mentally

and skill wise, like learn the sport

and learn the game and learn the requirements

to a degree where, where, where you have mastered it.

It is a masterable skill.

Sure, or like there will always be somebody who is the best.

Yes.

Um, I don't know that that's, I mean,

feels like a less excellent sentence,

but perhaps slightly more accurate, right?

Because I feel like...

Or like someone who is the best.

Everybody feels like, oh, I could, you know,

show Hayotani is like, yes, but somehow,

next year I could hit 50 home runs

and pitch 200 innings.

And it's like, that would be insane.

But everything could actually technically be better.

But there is one person where you're like, yes,

but there is one show, Hayotani.

So, yeah, I don't, I think that is accurate.

And I like it being on the board.

But I do feel like I'm not sure that it encapsulates the idea

that like there must be winners and losers in sports.

Yeah.

Something that has to be said.

And I, I think that's like necessary

for a lot of the catharsis.

I agree. I agree.

I, I, something that's popped into my head

is we're talking about this, uh, that like,

there's a sentence that's popped into my head.

It's, it's adjacent to what we're talking about.

But I think like it, it feels compelling

to put on the board as imagining a world

where this changes in some way, which is like,

sports have agreed upon

enforceable rules.

Like the, like a, like a, like a baseball game

like has a set of rules that we all agree on

when we step, when we, when we, when we start the game,

everybody understands to the best of their ability,

like the rules in front of them.

And like as a statement that is objectively true,

but also flexible, like there's something there of like,

what happens if we change that sentence?

And I think there's something,

there's something compelling to just like,

sports have agreed upon rules.

Are there any other statements that like jump out to you

as like obvious or like fun things, fun, fun, fun things

to play around in, fun pools to splash around in

when we think about like concepts in sport?

Well, I mean, I don't know.

I had sort of posited this, but I don't know

whether it is actually true that we feel like

somebody needs to watch sports for them to be sports,

or if that even feels particularly interesting.

Like if you take the audience element out of sports,

is it sports?

I would also say sports fans,

but like, I want this to be true,

but is it universally true?

Sports fans have a particular team.

Sure. I like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that feels,

I mean, and this is, that's the thing, right?

Like I think a big thing in this,

in what we're building is like,

we're finding the sentences that are true

to what we are, what we are looking at

and that feel like, feel like fun to flip.

So like, there's something, there's something,

there's something fun about like,

taking into the idea of team identity

and how that could change in the world.

Do we have anything else we want to throw in?

Yes. I mean,

I don't know if any of these are interesting for future gameplay,

but I would say something like athletes are admired,

athletes are celebrities,

athletes are people that other,

that normal people look up to,

feels like a true statement about sports,

whether or not that's something to, to like, reverse.

I think that's extremely exciting to reverse

or to invert or to fuck with in some way.

Like, I don't know what it's going to look like yet,

but there's something real juicy

in like putting that, that feels like,

that feels like that's the spirit of the game of like,

this is a sentence that if we flip this on its head,

takes the world in way different directions,

and I think that's cool as hell.

Okay, we've got a list of statements.

Now we're going to imagine new worlds

where these things are different.

Each of us is going to take one,

is going to start one new world

and create the initial vision that we explore together.

So what that's going to look like is one of us

will volunteer to start.

Would you like to start to build a world

and would you like me to take the lead?

I can start.

Great. So you're going to pick one statement on our list

and describe how it is not the same.

Keep it simple, avoid touching on the other statements.

Like, just like, tell me what of these statements?

Like, what do you want?

What do you want to imagine a world?

Which of these statements do you want to imagine is changed?

I think the one that feels the most fun to me

is sports have agreed upon rules.

Okay.

Great.

And I say that partly because I almost don't know

how to make it not true.

Yeah, sure.

But the idea of just imagine

that like a squad of athletes shows up

with another squad of athletes

and they're just not quite sure

or what game they're going to be playing.

Right. I like that. That's great.

Really fun.

Like, I would watch that.

I would watch the hell out of that.

If it was, maybe there are like elements

of sports that we recognize, right?

So it's kind of, but that it might be that the teams,

these teams will show up to different kinds

of fields, right?

So like, this is a world in which the sports

that we have still exist, question mark,

like, am I allowed to say that?

Yeah.

Right? So they could be like, all right.

So today, we've got, you know,

the narwhals are playing the Cthulhu's today.

And they are going to show up at a soccer pitch.

But that's just what the field is going to be.

They could end up making it any other kind of game, right?

Like, is it actually like, we need to dunk on top of the soccer goals?

Or is it like, oh, my God, somebody has brought up the croquet set.

Like, what are they going to do with that?

Yeah, I like this.

I really think this is this, this, this, this hits.

This feels, there's, there's such an energy there.

And like, good, this is, this is good.

This is good.

This has got entered.

This has got legs.

Which of these two statements?

So now that we've got the sentence that we're changing,

which of the two statements on here?

Do you think are still the same?

Like, what do you feel, what do you feel in this world?

As we, as we take this big idea that like,

athletes don't know the game that they're about to play

and that the rules will change on a game by game

or even play by play basis.

What aspects of sport are the same in that world?

I think sports are played by physically gifted athletes.

It feels important here because it's not about having just like,

learned a particular skill.

So these need to be sort of triathlete type,

like physically gifted people.

If they, you know, if they know how to play poker really well,

it's, it's not going to help them.

If like, actually the thing that they're playing that day is a little bit more like,

you know, cricket matched up with rugby or something.

Right.

So that feels important to me.

I think it's a really fascinating possibility here of,

if like, consider what it says about the world.

If you don't know, like, there's a fascinating pairing here,

which is a world in which the rules are constantly changing

and you're never certain what game you're about to play coupled with the idea that there

is someone who is still nonetheless the best at that.

Like, like, what that would mean in a world where like a game is this amorphous changing thing.

The way that you would identify someone as the best at sport changes so much and becomes

a really fascinating, like, picture to look at when you imagine what it would mean to excel in

that environment. It is both a physical thing, but also there's almost a, there's almost a

mental kind of, you mentioned, like, you mentioned, like, poker not necessarily helping you,

but I do feel like there's a certain kind of, like, role with the punches, you know,

keep your head on a swivel, play the players as much as you're playing the game,

kind of mentality where it's like, I don't know what it, what's about to happen.

But when something goes wrong or when I'm served something that I cannot, when I'm served

something that I cannot measure up with, like, there is an element of, like,

chicanery that I think becomes really fascinating when we consider that this is a world where sport

is sport changes, but it can still be excelled at. Yes. Yes. What you need in this scenario is you

need the JT Real Mudos of the world, right? Yes. Like, played baseball and football and wrestling

and also had a 4.0 GPA in high school. You know what I mean? Like, you need somebody who's really

smart. And what I love about this, because you need somebody who's going to be able to adjust

on the fly, right? To be like, oh, this other team, it appears to be winning because they've sort of

dictated what game we're playing. But like, I'm, I'm just going to, like, bring in the lacrosstics

and be like, these are involved somehow. So, like, yeah, you need somebody to be able to pivot.

And that feels like maybe interestingly, not a skill that a lot of them, that some of,

some of the most skilled athletes might have. And the reason that I say that is because I was once

told this life changing fact, which is that we have a set number of thoughts per minute.

And that some people have many, many thoughts per minute, for example, stand-up comedians,

right? Like, it's clear that they just, they have many more thoughts per minute than I personally have,

because some of them are maybe not funny, but they're like, always able to choose out of the 10

thoughts that they just had, like, the funny one. And that's the one that they say, whereas,

like, in that amount of time, I've only had one thought. And that athletes apparently have very

few thoughts per minute, which is helpful for them, because then there's not a, like, ideally,

not a ton of thoughts getting in the way of a just kind of, like, sea ball hit ball approach.

But if you need to, if something you need also to be, like, a kind of a catcher type,

like, a kind of a game collar, yeah, really interesting. Really, really interesting. Okay,

so we've got the world. Now it's, now we just bounce back and forth. What the, the,

what the, the, the back half of our world building looks like is we each take two turns

building on this idea. We can change something, pick an unused statement and say,

how it's not the same in this world. We can say that something is the same, pulling an unused

statement, say how it is basically the same and then add it in or just pick something that was

already said and tell us more or reveal some asset about it. So you reveal something is different,

something is the same or add a detail. For this, what I want to, I want to expand on this,

because I think there's something really fun. And I think maybe it's partially because, like,

I've been, because, like, when we are recording this, like, trailers for the running man are all,

are all on my TV and there's like an energy here of, there's an, and there's a, there's a,

what we're describing is vague is, is almost like a, a sort of hunger game is running man kind of,

like, energy of like, the game feels, like, there's a danger inherent to that. And I like the idea

that the rule changes, like, come from an unknowable, uh, which I guess is an expansion,

which I guess is just the furthest possible limitation of Jeff has annoyed at many of the rules

changes that come to sport season to season from the, from the, from the owners and from the,

like, ruling committees, but like, they come from an, oh, unknowable, almost algorithmic, like,

like, entity, right? Like, that is just like, and I think it is a little bit, uh, the thing that

is popped into my head is like, almost, uh, X-Men Danger Room-esque of, like, suddenly, uh,

obstacles have fallen and suddenly you're in an obstacle course. Good luck. And it adds that sense

of, like, the team arrives and there's almost, there's that anxiety becomes almost a fear of, like,

I don't know what's about to get dropped in front of me. Like, it could be, it could be something

that's going to give us huge advantage. It could be something that puts us in real danger. And

there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a sort of fascinating energy that I think builds upon that.

I'm, I, I love that. I love that so much. And you've given me an idea to take this to a terrible

dystopian level, by saying the Hunger Games, which is that I think, and, and also I was thinking

a little bit about, and this is not making this untrue, but athletes are admired. Celebrities

looked up to somebody from the losing team. When, when, when they play this sport, somebody from

the losing team, like, gets relegated to not be able to play sports anymore. That's really fantastic.

Oh, I like that a lot. That's, and, yeah, and, like, and it's this, and, and, and I mean, like,

to be a person who plays sport in that world means that you have, like, honed yourself to such a

specific, like, mindset and physicality that, like, the chance that you could lose it on any

single game is terrifying. Yes, yes. And that I think, I think in, in, in a truly terrible

fashion, like the, the losing team has to, ooh, yeah. Yeah, the losing team has to vote about

who's the person who lose. Oh, that's, and I, I think that that's, like, I was like, is it,

is it a, is it a crowd vote? But I feel like no, then you'd get a bunch of people who are, like,

opposing fans, flooding the votes, like trying to vote off the worst or the best person on the team,

right? To be like, yeah, like, we don't, yeah, we don't want to see Kyle Schwarber anymore or whatever.

Like, it wouldn't needs to be that everybody gets together and it's like, you know,

the play, the play, this is the person that didn't, this is the person that led us lose. And like,

they have to, like, cut someone loose. And when they do that, that person leaves and never comes

back to sports is agonizing. Yes. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I think, I think that's what it is. I think

that's what it is. I think it's like, they can never come back to, like, whatever this chaos

league is that we've created. But I do feel like there's something about being voted off by your own

team that is so psychologically damaging that I feel like even if that person was going to like

try to play in some other professionals mostly, they'd have a really hard time of, of, like,

you know, finding a team that would give them a real look. Yeah. It's terrible. I hate it so much.

I truly hate it. But like, that's the, that's the game. And that's the, the game is that we've

created a really fucked up world that I'm kind of obsessed with. And I'm looking at this list.

I'm seeing if there's one more thing that I want to add. But also, I kind of feel like we've

nailed it. I feel like we've got such a good picture of this world of like, I think the thing I

want to add. And this is not quite, we're not pulling sentences here as much as just like

fleshing out things that are already on the board of like, to me, I think what is captivating.

If I'm thinking of, you know, the fiction of this world, if I'm, if I'm, if I'm framing this in,

like, where the story goes. In my mind, there is a real, there's a real thrilling kind of, like,

almost cyberpunk, like, fight back energy to, you know, you are a person that has been trained

to be, to respond to anything at your physical and mental peak. And due to circumstances that are

beyond your control, you have been kicked out of the, the thing that is your like, to me, it is

so captivating to imagine like, what happens to that person? And the idea that there is like a

world of like, either crime or rebellion or, or resistance or anything that is just like,

to me, like that is such a good fictional hook of this person, like a person has been kicked out.

Now the story begin, now the story of like what happened, now the fight begins because they've

been, they've been backed into this position. And the fourth career is a thing that is

fridged in this particular story. Yes. That feels extremely fun and exciting. Yeah. I think I can

throw one more thing on here, which is that I think in this, in this chaos league, which is not

what it needs to be called, but is at least descriptive. So we know what we're talking about.

I think bandwagoning is not required. Like it's not necessary for fans, but like it is, it is

welcome, right? To kind of, to just be like, oh, you know, my team keeps losing and they keep

voting their guys off. I'm just going to like, ditch them and buy new gear and just like root for

this other team. And in the kind of like, we don't know what the rules are. That's also not like,

oh, you turn code. That's just like, yeah, you know, that team was losing. And so you just

decided to hit your wagon to another team. Yeah. That feels great. I think that's a, that's a good

addition. Is there anything else about this world that you want to, that you want to poke at,

or do we want to spin up another world? I don't, I don't think so. I mean, I feel like, you know,

this, this gets to a lot of the key things about sports and also made it better and worse.

Yeah. I, this is, this is great. This game rips. I'm excited to continue building these

weird worlds because I'm staring at a particular sentence that I, I desperately, I've been,

I've been chewing on since you threw it out that like, I'm like, I got to know what happens

if we invert it in some way. What happens if we change that it might, it's celebrities,

athletes are admired or celebrities or looked up to the idea of like, inverting that and the idea

of like, changing that to something where an athlete to be an athlete is to be some, is to

do something in, in secret like, which also says that the other sentence that I like, there

is something to be like, being an athlete is like a secret. It is like a double, it is a double

life. It is a, it is, it is something that like, it is something that is like, uh, like looked away

from or like, or looked past. And there's something immediately captivating to me about like

examining the world where that is the case. Yep. Yes. Yeah. I think so. I, because I think

that the attitude there would be like, you're an adult and you want to play like a, a game

that doesn't even make you like a more productive member of society. Oh, it's fascinating.

It doesn't even, um, you know, increase your mental capacity to fight Alzheimer's in your

later years. Like, what, why would you spend your time to do this? It doesn't make anything.

Yes. That feels good. If I, I love, I love how, I love how fleshed out this world has gotten

immediately by flipping this one thing on its head. Yeah. Like suddenly it, the world has like

very different priorities. Right. I think it would also, it would, oh, because I feel like

the importance, our, our understanding of, I think the very crucial role that sports plays in

our society for catharsis, suddenly people would find that not valuable. Right. Like, you, but,

like, why would you, why would you need to run around? And also, why would we care to watch you,

like, run a ball back and forth or kick a ball back and forth? Like, why would that matter to us?

Feels like it has other implications for, yeah, there's something I've wrote and I've added

the sentence to the, to the world of like sports are still a cathartic experience for players

and observers, even if the war like, because the idea that like, the world does not value it. And

almost the world like shuns it or like culturally like it is, it is, it is, it is forbidden in some way.

There's something so exciting to me about picturing like, we're going to go play baseball,

like, being like, like meeting with, like, like, a meeting with a group of players to be like,

we're playing baseball and like having a good baseball game and people that watch it get swept

up into the experience of the baseball game. And like, that being this emotional thing that is like

hidden and that is experienced in secret is so exciting. And it like, you know, to, to get

fully weird with it. What, what I experience or what I, what I visualize when I hear all of that,

and I'm putting this on the board as I, as I envision this is like, in a world where that

catharsis does not exist or is not valued or is like, is, is left behind. There is almost a,

there is almost a, like, I'm throwing in like a, a magic or a, a, an anime power or like,

something to the effect of like, to reach that cathartic state is to, is to break reality a little

bit. And that is like, very exciting, especially like, in a picturing a world where like, this is

something that is happening in secret has got wheels turning for me. Yeah, it's interesting because

I feel like I almost have gone the opposite direction with it. But I, but I feel like both are

possible, right? Which is like sports still actually do offer catharsis and excitement for the

people who play it. And for the people who witness it also like, sort of in secret, right? There's

like, underground baseball games. Um, I mean, actually you had me at, there's underground baseball

games. Under your baseball games is hitting. But, but like that there's a reason in

overall society where that would be seen to be unnecessary and silly, which in some ways I think

is sad. And in other ways actually speaks to like a high level of

um, mental and emotional attunement, right? Like everybody has a lot of therapy in this world.

Um, you know, just, just in order to not feel like sports is the thing, or even if it's, if it's

like, uh, the kind of umbrella society expectation of like, well, but why would we need to do that?

If, if we all have therapists, you know, and, and we all, um, you know, on, on Friday nights,

everybody goes to like sip and paint, you know, and like talks about their dreams. If that was the

case, then like, why would we need to go scream about sports somewhere? Like all of our feelings

are very expressed. Um, and I, in some ways, I love the idea of, and I don't know, maybe we

can reject this. Maybe it's not working. But like the idea of, of emotional and spiritual balance,

having been taken to such a point that it's actually dystopian because now people just like aren't

allowed to just do a thing that they enjoy. The thing that you threw, the thing that you said, uh,

when you were first kind of responding to the idea that sports like is, uh, that like, that like

loving or participating in sports is like, when you were first kind of like imagining the rejection

of that, you said a thing that I think pairs really nicely with that. And like really ups the idea

of underground sports games to 11, which is like, you said something to the effect of like, it does

nothing to increase productivity. And like, the idea of like, uh, an overwhelmingly like

corporate world and like the idea of like emotional regulation, but like also kind of, uh, yes,

Jeff is thinking about this because of a long day in the office, but like, emotional office

office mentality, right? Like it is, there's a, there's a kind of emotional about like, it's the

emotional labor of like an overwhelmingly like corporatized, you know, uh, capitalist nightmare

existence of the world is the office and we and everyone is involved like, everyone is the

office 24 seven. It's a little bit, it's almost a little like severance. It's a little bit like,

this is a world where this is a world where, you know, this is, this is capitalism to the

eighth degree. And you are existing in a state where like, there is, there is regulation, but

there is also suffocation. And like this, uh, this practice of like, yeah, and then some of us

grab baseball bats and we go and we go to a parking garage and we fucking, we, we nailed dingers

and we get excited like that. There's something and I've, I've, I've added the sentence of, uh,

sports fans have a particular team because the idea of like, the idea of that almost as an

anti-corporate rebellion of like, I got my sport team, I got my team t-shirt under my,

under my dress shirt and under my, like, under my suit and tie. I've got like my, I've got my team,

my team colors on. The idea that it's like a, it's a, it's a, it's a flag of rebellion is very,

is very sick to me. Yeah, I think this one is more like the movie that I want to watch and or

write, um, where it's, where it's a little bit more of like a 1984 world. Yeah. Um, and, and all

frivolity is just seen as useless. Like, yeah, you're not, if, if it's a world in which nobody is

looked up to for playing sports, if it is a world in which nobody can make money to play sports,

yeah, then it is a world in which like, that's just like, why would you spend your time to do that?

And it, again, yeah, that makes it feel more like the movie I would want to watch because then

obviously the, whereas I feel like the, the real idea of like, we don't need this catharsis

anymore as a society is like harder to figure out what's the version of that thing. Um,

because I mean, I do slightly wonder what instead, what is the catharsis for people in this,

in this highly corporate world? Like, is, is it, is it just that they're given parties like they

have in severance where they're given a lot of melon, um, and there's a marching band or

something like that, but, but nobody actually gets to, to do anything because I don't see, I don't

see if it's, if it's like about productivity, I don't see it being a world where it's suddenly

like, ah, yes, but we, we find art to be a perfectly, um, acceptable use of your time either because

it's like, you know, but who wants to look at this painting that you made Janice, right? Like,

would I feel like would be the same attitude of the world, not like I'm trying to get it into art,

but this, but I, but yeah, I guess I am trying to be like, what, what, how, how does the world

expect people to exercise who they are if they're not allowed to have frivolous things that they do?

This gets, well, this gets in a bag, this gets a, uh, this, you have unlocked a hot take, uh,

that I have about a lot, and like, I think that like under the surface, like, they're like, I think

I have an answer to that that's rooted in a hot take that I have about a lot of, uh, a lot of media

and specifically a hot take, I have about a movie that I dearly love and that like, I love a lot,

and that I think is a fantastic film, but a problem that I have with it, I have a huge problem with

the movie, uh, Mad Max Fury Road. I think it's a great movie. I think it's one of my favorite movies

of all time, but I have a huge problem with all of the Mad Max movies and that is all of them

posit this world in which survival is such a critical thing that like the thing that I've always

noticed about the Mad Max movies, Fury Road most noticeably because they spend the entire time

driving in a car, is that nobody plays eye spy. Like, and that's a, that's a, that's a silly example,

but I think like the broader thing is like, there is no, like in all of the driving sequences and

all of the Mad Max films, you never get a sense that there are car games. Yeah. You never get a sense

that like, like, like, it is this world and like, like, it is fundamentally positive that survival

has become such a priority that like, but like, I've driven in very important, very stressful

car rides and still bullshit it. Like, I've still like, talk or like, like, talked about stuff that

I was seeing on the road or like, you know, like, like played, played punch buggy or things like

that. And I think like, the thing maybe I want to like lean into is like, make that explicit where

like in this pursuit, like, like this, like this, you know, taking sport here as, as the ultimate

example of which is like that catharsis and that frivolity was simply overlooked because the thing

that because our priority is not that our priority is the productivity, our priority is the success

and our priority is money and earnings. And at a certain point, sport or frivolity or fun or like

emotional catharsis happens almost naturally or instantaneously or irrepressibly in the form of

these underground baseball games because that is simply a thing that like, and it is, you know,

and you can try and lock it down, you can try and refuse it, you can try to turn it away, but

there is an energy of it that is ultimate that will rear its head and does rear its head in this

world in the form of like rebel baseball games, which is the second, which is a phrase that I love

so much that I'm finding excuses to say it a lot. I think there's something kind of incredible in

in the sense of like, this is like, like, it's the, it's the, it's the, the world did not value this

so we had to invent it ourselves. Yes. Yeah, well, and I think the thing maybe what I'm, what I'm

heading to in contradiction to what I had, what I had sort of floated earlier is I think like,

this is also a world in which artists are not valued looked up to, right? Like that, that it's

not like, oh, sports is low brow, but like we do spend our, our everybody spends their Fridays

painting and reading the works of David Foster Wallace. I love you, David Foster Wallace.

So, so instead, it's kind of, and this feels like something that I've thought about a lot of like,

if I lived in a world where it just like, it wasn't a thing where actors ever got paid for their

work or like writers ever got paid for their work, those are still two things that I would do

because they're like necessary for me to want to be alive. And that I think maybe that's also

part of this world. Like the only thing that people are supposed to do when they're not at home is

they can like, listen to self-help podcasts. Yeah. Actually, I actually think like therapy is a part

of this world, right? Like, and that's part of the thought. It's like, you don't need to do these

other things. Like you have a therapist, but it's kind of like, but we don't, like therapy,

you don't get to talk about anything that you did where you like, you made something or like,

you played a game or you had fun. So it's kind of like, what is there, what is there even to express?

Like you're allowed to like go home and read nonfiction books to learn more things, you know? Like

that's what people do for fun. Or like, you know, watch documentaries. You can watch documentaries

that people make not for profit. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's, there's, there's an incredible energy

to like, and there's an incredible energy to like that sort of like that chaotic expression of

that art and sport and catharsis of being like, this is, this is such a world where everything

kind of feeds back into feeds back into into work, right? Like therapy, hearing you just,

hearing you talk about like the therapy, like my brain to meet Lou and to like, yeah, you have a

therapist, but really it's basically an HR rep. Like it's basically like, you're talking about like,

how can you be more effective in your interpersonal reactions to really like, to really advance the

company's goals? Like it's, and this idea that like all of these like messy, irrepressible things,

are going to happen and are going to happen in ways that like directly threaten this like

established monolithic order of things. Yes, but the idea is like, well, but you do not need to have

those activities because we provide you with a therapist. Yes. And who may or may not be reporting

back to management about what you happen to say. Right. And so naturally like there is, you know,

underground baseball underground, parking garage baseball league turns into graffiti on the walls,

turns into underground punk concerts. And like, it becomes this thing of like catharsis and

expression as a form of rebellion, which is as I'm saying it out loud, the most Jeff is on

his bullshit thing that I've ever created. So thank you for joining me on this journey.

No, no, no, like I was laughing because I was like, I want to write this movie. Do you want to

write this movie with me? I'm on board like this is we've hit it. Yeah. Yeah, because okay,

so so Noah Gatel, I just want to plug his book briefly wrote this. I think it's called

baseball the book, but wrote this book. I have a podcast grading baseball movies on the 20 to 80

scouting scale used for baseball prospects. And so when I got to read his book, having seen at

this point so many baseball movies in my life, I was like, Oh, this is really true. And his

central premise is the idea that a baseball movie always reflects the state of America at the time

that it was made. Sure. And I also want to plug for your listeners. If even if you do not like

baseball at all, watch the indie film, EFIS EEP US, I've had that on my list for months. They

showed it at the they showed it in a theater. And it was a one day that we couldn't make it. I've

had it on my list for it's it's been floating in my it's been floating in my brainpan for months.

It's really good. Even for people who don't like baseball, it is it is a beautiful movie. I don't

want to like overly overly hype it because then I feel like expectation always is such that then

people will not enjoy it because it will be overly hyped. But like just watch it is a thing that

I have to say just like support indie film just go out rent it. Anyway, when I watched this film,

I was like, yes, this is 100% the state of America in 2024 when the film was made. And I feel like

you and I are going to write the baseball movie that is like the America that we're heading into.

Yeah, this is this this this hits. God, I really could I really could play this game for

another four hours of just grabbing statements and going like, what would baseball look like if

but I think that we'll leave it there and we'll call it game and I'll say thank you so much

for joining me on this adventure. This was incredible. Oh my gosh, just such a pleasure. I don't know

how we thought we were going to pick something other than sports. Oh, and also I want to give you

this particular airport moment. I'm glad. I'm really I'm really I'm really sure and that's

just like I didn't do it on purpose. It's just like a statistical likelihood that I'm wearing

at least, you know, it's a listen, it is it's never off the table. We are we are recording this

in the postseason. I I was going to say I'll say it on Mike. I I I would like to formally apologize.

I believe that I cursed the team because when we first started planning this episode, I said,

hey, we'll be recording this at a time that maybe the fills will do great and they did not do great

and I think that's on me more than anything. It's not on you. Don't take it on yourself, Jeff.

I appreciate that. That means a great deal. Well, this was incredible. Let me ask you this. What

was your favorite moment from play? Oh gosh. So many. I think it was probably I don't know your

description of like the the underground baseball games, like just how clear that was to me and

and everything that sort of came out of that. I think for me, when I would like rejected my

other idea and was like, no, no, no, it's not that idea. It's this idea felt related to that,

but I feel like all of that was tied to you just having that like really strong image come out at

you from Spiritus Mundi. I'm so I'm so grateful. I'm I'm grateful for that. I'm glad that it came

glad that we got I'm glad that it brought out the the experience because like getting to explore

that space and like landing in that that world was so satisfying and yeah, I'm glad that we

landed on sports as the topic because I think like that the what we've built here is so special

to me that I'm really glad that we got to share this. So thank you again for this. This was wonderful.

Real quick before you wrap up, where can people find your work? Oh my goodness. There's too many

social medias. I do have a website, which is my name, Ellen Adair.com. I am also I'm on Instagram

at Ellen Adair G, just like the letter G. Ellen Adair was already taken. I'm on Blue Sky at

Ellen Adair. I am there more often than I am on Twitter, which I staunchly continue to refer to

as Twitter, where I am Ellen underscore Adair. And I'm also on TikTok. Ellen Adair. Yeah.

Those are the places. Thank you so much for this. Too many places, honestly. And also I think I am

I think I am storebird Jeff on Instagram because Jeff Stormer was taken and I it is it is the forever

birding anger in my heart that I didn't get my name one one of the places. I feel your pain,

my friend. But thank you so much for this. This was an absolute ball pun. This was fully intended.

This was magnificent. I am overjoyed. And for now, I want to throw it over to me in the future

so that he can wrap up with the show. Take a future, me. Thanks, pass me. And thanks to

Ellen for coming on to the show. That game was remarkable. I had such fun playing it. It really

was wonderful to listen to. It's just it really captures the magic of the show and the magic of

the experience to sit down and get deep in the weeds about a thing that we're both passionate about.

This was an incredibly magical experience and I'm so so grateful for it. Be sure to check the

show notes for links to all of Ellen's projects. Be sure to pick up your own copy of in this world

at lamemage.com. And if you enjoyed this episode, there is one thing I would love for you to do.

If you have a dream guest for the show, somebody, a celebrity, a podcaster, a musician, a professional

wrestler, whatever, if you have somebody that you're like, man, I would love to hear them play a

weird tabletop game and have an interview and a conversation and have this weird experience,

I want you to go tell them about the show. Send them a tweet, a skeet, an email, a Tumblr post,

Instagram, comment, whatever. And just say, hey, here's a great show. Check it out. I think you'd

like it. I'd love to hear you as a guest legitimately. Those comments have opened doors and led to

episodes in the past. So like, if you enjoyed this episode and there's someone that you're like,

man, I'd love to hear them on the show someday, give them a shout on social media and tag us and

we'll see what happens. Party of One is produced and edited as always by Jeff Stormer and Jen Frank

Music for the show comes from the song Infinite Lies by Megarand featuring the D&D sluggers and

the Party of One logo is by Evan Roland. If you'd like to inquire about press coverage,

coming on the show as a guest or about advertising rates, you can email me at partyofonepodcast.com

or if you have a recipe for a baked good, I got sent some of those recently and it really

brighten my day. So like, that would be amazing. And unless I'm mistaken, that's all we do here.

So until next time, thank you so much for listening. Remember to fight the forces of fascism

every single day. Remember that self-love and self-care are radical and defiant acts of resistance

and as always party on everybody.