#559 Robert Thurman: Death, Karma, and the Evolution of Consciousness | Tibetan Wisdom vs. Modern Materialism

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Focus is dead.

Jeff's a van-vented Western title needed to be properly translated.

The main mess that I learned from doing it is there are no dead people.

Death is just an abstraction.

If you have a door between two rooms, you're never scared of the door.

You're scared of what might be in the next room.

There are many ways around the death part as being the scary thing.

And when they analyze it, it's not morbid.

It makes them appreciate every moment of life.

In the Tibetan tradition, first you've had a state of the certainty that I will die.

Then the second thing is I never know when it will happen.

And then the third one of that is in the Indian literature.

A lot of beings, bodhisattvas, high beings, have come from a planet.

The Indian astrologers, who were also astronomers, they even had a heliocentric model earlier

than the Egyptian's many Buddhas of the Indian Renaissance of 2,500 years ago.

They discovered transparent mass and energy.

The human life is an absolute priceless treasure.

How do you feel about your own death if you don't mind me asking?

Let me ask you a question.

Please.

What do you think is evolution?

What is evolution?

What do you think it is?

Do you think it's what Darwin, just Darwin's version?

Well, I don't think I've researched Darwin's work deeply enough to comment on it

at the level you're asking me to today.

I have a shared sentiments from the zeitgeist of what I think Darwin's about.

But for me, as I'm maturing at this age, and I'm conscious of the age that I am,

I'm moving through my 30s into my 40s.

I'm starting to, and maybe that's too much astrologer in me, but I'm starting to see

evolution as more now, especially if picking up your book, starting to learn more astrology,

as evolution is, previously it would have been evolution of man going through the history

and the ages like Darwinism, but then also our evolution through life as we evolve.

But I mean, it's very difficult to not be exposed to your translation of the incredible

book.

I've got some questions about that.

But start to look at evolution of the soul through the many different lifetimes that

we live.

But then also what is that one entire thing that is having this evolution and expression

and why is it doing what it's doing?

Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

I don't know.

That's the whole thing.

Well, Darwin was great, actually.

He was a bodhisattva, definitely.

And he, but he was, can you just find what a bodhisattva is, Robert, sorry, just for

those that don't know?

The person who is seeking enlightenment is aware of the deftlessness of life and that

you never escape into death from life.

And death brings you just from one life to another, just a doorway.

And therefore, you have to imagine, you have an endless and beginningless passage through

all these infinite lives.

And therefore, you should not deprive yourself of a goal of the ultimate evolutionary summit

sort of, which is when you become all of it.

You become aware of connecting and being and embracing all of it, which is how enlightenment

is defined, you know, Buddhahood enlightenment, you know, in all of the Indian Buddha-oriented

traditions, which are all of them, actually, whether they, whether they make Buddha into

an incarnation of Vishnu and say he was doing a little wrong because he didn't do the

Vedic sacrifice and blah, blah, blah, blah.

Whether you make Buddha into a Kamsatnam and your tradition, whatever you do about a Buddha

means fully blossom, fully flowered living being.

And that's a being who is totally loved because totally blissed out and totally skilled

and wise in expressing that to others.

So wisdom and love, wisdom and compassion, total fulfillment and an absolute blissed out

like you have a pink background to your bookshelf there, but the Buddha has a blissed background

to all of life and Bodhisattva also do.

So I'm saying Darwin was, but he was forced to be British, he was supposed to be a doctor

a surgeon by his father, but instead he was bent on trying to find the path for the

alienated anglos to realize that they were part of nature and they were not somehow disconnected

from it nervously hovering under a notion of ultimate reality that might doom them to

hell for having too much fun.

So therefore he tracked all the interconnections of all those living forms, you know, as best

he could, and he showed the humanity they were connected genetically and so on, although

they didn't have a sophisticated idea of a gene at that time, but he showed them that

they were connected with all the animals and all of life.

And he made it palatable for them by excluding their spiritual side and because they were

all materialistic, the empire we own all around, and the sun never sets and all this.

And so he just made it a species is all connected, you know, from random mutations because they

couldn't figure out how that worked because he didn't allow the mind to be involved in it.

So the Buddha long before took the word karma out of the Vedic ritual, which is where it

was originally launched, because what it originally meant was action through the ritual, which

made the gods bless you.

So in a way it was the action that affected your destiny, was karma, the meaning of the

word karma, it was the most important action because the gods were in control of what

happened to you in that earlier form.

And around the time when Patanjali and him and Bada Raya and all the Suttakaras and Jitmahavira,

they all rebelled, sort of like Guru Nanak who rebelled against everybody and went under

the river for three days and Patanjali came up with a new song, you know, and so they

did.

And in that new song, the word karma, instead of meaning some sort of, you know, divine

appeasement ritual action, came to mean your own ethical action in how you engage with

others and how you're mind engages even, not just even when you didn't say anything,

but what you think, how you speak engages and then bodily, how you engage.

And so that's what then shapes your destiny.

So it becomes the individual's evolution with mind and speech and body through life,

through life after life.

And then once that's the case, how do you get to be able to actually control it and aim

it and go for the golden state of enlightenment?

So that becomes elected or Mahavirahood or Nehri Kapasamadi, but he was a little bit

not so favorable about Nehri Kapasamadi, which a little bit, when they think that's

ultimate goal, there's kind of escaping from life, you know, into some state that is

outside of it, abandoning the loved ones of other beings, you know.

So that's a little not so much fun, you know, fun ends when you're, somebody becomes

boring when you're sucking it, eternal, even the one else present.

I want to talk to you again and make a podcast from Nehri Kapasamadi.

I mean, many people would appreciate a podcast from Nehri Kapasamadi, I was, yeah, I was

joking, I went from like engineer to life coach to astrologer and I was, I was wondering,

I was asking myself, what's next?

Do I just end up in a Himalayan mountain somewhere in a cave just podcasting the Advocale

Pasamadi mainly touch wood if I should be so blessed.

It's beautiful, I think it's wonderful, I'm very lazy and badly, you have to have an

organiser.

Yeah.

I'm an subset, but I do podcast, but not enough.

I'd like to do your podcast.

Well, thank you so much.

I'll shut down all of the skyscrapers.

Yeah.

I don't think.

I don't think it's that much.

And then if we can say astrology, are you doing Vedic astrology?

Vedic and western and Hellenic actually.

Oh, oh, good.

Oh, awesome, yeah, it's kind of really liked the Vedic ones that they've changed different

things.

So I'm scared because my son signed as Leo, and yet the Vedic one moves me back into

cancer.

I can't quite get that how I could be so strongly marked by crabs.

Yeah.

It's actually, I'd love to explain that to you, actually, if you're open to it, but yeah,

maybe another podcast.

I want to ask you, Robert, if that's okay, because you mentioned that, you know, if you

mentioned this Darwinian, you started explaining the West.

And then I wanted to dive deep into, because some people are going to be listening to you

today going, this is completely delusionary, yeah.

And I wanted to set up the frame with us coming into Tibet.

If you could please speak to us of Indo Tibet to set the frame, yeah, in terms of how

did these inner terrains start to get mapped?

Because in the West, you say we explored the West in the translation and the narrators

in the book.

And then you also say in the East, they went inwards.

So you can talk to us about it.

I don't believe in West and East.

Yeah, tell us.

I believe that I just think that India in particular, which in a way is West, actually,

because it's a, at least a Sanskrit part of it.

I think the Darwinian part of India is something different than West and East.

It's sort of Southern, actually.

But the Sanskrit part is Indo-European, and so it's really the West.

And so anybody East and West now is all flattened out, you know.

We're all one, it's all one giant, huge chaotic mind.

And the nation's state thing and the race thing and the religion thing that's all useless.

In a way, it's all kind of confused, creating chaos at the moment, and people have to learn

that we're all one, but we're on one little rock, you know, one little, we're in one garden

together, and we have to share it, and we have to be cool, you know.

So I'm not a East and West.

I mentioned Darwin, because actually I consider he did a great thing.

Although I would disagree with his attachment to materialism, and I'm against, I'm against

the dogma of materialism that affects modern, so-called modern science.

And I think ancient Indian science is more advanced, actually, in many ways.

Although it likes the Indian, the Indian science is really like the observational empirical

part of modern scientific methodology of having direct experience in form theories and

living all theories to be updated by more experience.

I mean, that methodology of modern science and that was the methodology of ancient Indian

science.

The only problem with the modern one is that due to the fear of God, probably in the

colonialist mind, they didn't want to suffer in hell, so therefore they decided they

wouldn't have a mind or a soul or a spirit, and then a lot of people misunderstand

Buddhism with it's not about teaching, thinking that Buddhism agrees with that, that there's

no spirit.

And then they kind of understand why Buddhism is absolutely determined about multi-former

and future lives, that doesn't fit with them, so then they try to put like someone like

Stereo-Certain ride, or something like that, I won't mention it, but they said they say,

oh, Buddha didn't believe in that crap of our form of future lives, that's some old

superstition.

Meanwhile, that's a scientifically verifiable fact.

It's just not verifiable, but it hasn't so far been verifiable by materialistic means.

It has to be some mental awareness that you have to discover that and you have to actually

overcome the insanity of the Western colonialist mind, the modern mind.

What is the insanity?

The insanity is they believe in nothing.

They believe that nothing is something.

The reality is the word for what isn't something, that there's not a thing, it's not a place,

it's not a space, it's not a dark space, so no living process, no cumulative energy flow

can ever be nothing, impossible.

So it's insane to think that economy, don't you agree?

To think you can be nothing at death, and therefore there's no consequence of how

you've lived or what you've done is insane, and it leads to psychosis that people think

there's no accountability for whatever they do, whereas if you live in an infinite flow

of transformation and evolutionary transformation, it can become negative as well as positive.

In other words, you could be reborn as a Kiwi or a kangaroo there in Melbourne.

You could be one of the poor kangaroos running away from the firestorms, not just a hudumon,

you're not just guaranteed to always be human, or you could ascend into the divine realms,

but then you wouldn't necessarily enjoy that ultimately and you might want to come back

to your own weird podcast.

That's also interesting, because you said sometimes in the transition, it says some souls

don't necessarily, even some of the heavens are traps, and they return to human incarnation

to try and...

That was really interesting to consider that there are certain heavens that are traps.

That's really weird.

Well, I must admit, because when I grew up, I really didn't like my church, but I got

hanging there on the wall.

I didn't like that as a child, and I didn't agree that I had to believe whatever they told

me when it didn't make sense to me.

So it took me a lot of time to deal about the issue of gods and devils and so on, and

also the Buddhist world, the Indic world, which the Buddhist systematized, of course, very

specifically of the realms of pure form and the realm, the Sixth desire realm heavens,

and then the four formless heavens.

So there was like 16, 622 plus 426 heavens, which are themselves they admit, because no

theory and theoretical description of the universe is adequate to it, that's just a heuristic

schematization of sort of trends of life forms.

And it took me time to think that gods might be useful for anything, and it was people,

people project all the ridiculous omnipotence of their own childhood, temper tantrums of

the infantile omnipotence feeling, that kind of immature thing, and they project that out,

and then they act like, oh, then we have a scripture, we have a church, we have something,

so there I'm omnipotence, so if they tell me to do it, I can go kill grandma, and that's

psychotic, that's crazy.

I mean, you don't kill people, and no decent deity would ever tell you to do so.

So all the conflicts that we have in the name of some projected absolute, we're defending

an absolute, and the absolute tells us we can bracket relational, obvious harm, and we

can just ignore whether it's helper harm, whether it's friendly or inimical, and that ultimately

enrolls nothing anyway, so who cares, that's what, that's where the modern world is now,

that's why we are not controlling the dictators and the oiligarchs, not oligarchs, but oiligarchs,

we're not controlling them, we definitely have none of them, hugely, so I feel soft skin

into human beings, we have billions and billions to a few, to a few thousand, maybe ten thousand

maximum, but we can't control them, and that's because they have, they can't control themselves

because they think they can just do whatever they can get away with, because it's all going to be

nothing later. They never really believe it inspired, not only inspired even on it, inspired evolution,

don't believe that, because evolution means there's a consequence of what you do, and it's not

just accidental random, there's clearly, and we know that in life, right? You look really healthy

to me, to a young man, and you may work out occasionally to remain your back and shoulders and arms,

you know, and healthy and happy, maybe go for a jog or you're going to do yoga or something,

you know something, and you know that if you don't do it, weeks on end, if you break something,

something in bed for a month, then you get all weird, and throughout being seen, you know, you can't

hardly even stand up in a chair and wait until you're in your 80s, you know, you have to keep at it,

so we know there's consequences of what you do with our body, and we've had a lot of scenes in

our life, we've said things, we've regretted our blood, speech, and we've said good things,

and that's had a good result, so we know there are results of what we do, we don't necessarily,

the West know that even just what we think has a result, even if we don't express it, and

I know the thing, yeah, and on your language, but when we go spiritual, we begin to get into the

the wish and the secret of magnetism and wishing for this and that, so whereas in ancient

system, the tenfold path of good and bad evolutionary action, which means karma, since the 5th

century before the common era in all Indian schools, that involves body speech and mind, and it's

really brilliant, and it solves a lot of the ethicists, modern ethicists' problems, because

being ethical becomes an evolutionary mandate for a person. Yeah, it's an impulse in everything.

It isn't like, well, it's not for the materialists, like Vikasai, one of my heroes among them,

who was really trying to break free, great genius philosopher, he says, well, ethics, if you're just

a kind of random, he was a little existentialist about it, because he was a friend of, he was an

engineer first, like you, and then afterwards he was philosopher, and then he was in these universities

that become dominated by the religion of nihilistic materialism, that's the dominant life,

they are the high priests, there's the materialist scientists, they have, they tell you what's

because they tell you what's real, supposedly, meanwhile they're insane and that they think nothing

is real, nothing, imagine that you think you can gold through nothing, that's a kind of insanity.

Well, is that not an external orientation too, so it's kind of like there's only so much

outward work you can do in a certain direction until the inward beckons, is that assumption I

can draw from what you're saying? No, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't understand them.

Well, I said with the material scientists, the object of their fascination is the external

material world, and so they're consistently focused outward, and I think that's why so many more

people are returning, like you and I are having a podcast, that's potentially going to go quite,

it's going to go places, it's going to sit in with people, there is this pull back in goods

that people are feeling at this time, do you know? That's it, I'm critical of the dogma,

but the index scientist, it loves the observations, and the methodology, if they really would do it,

then they could have no dogma saying that there's nothing non-material. Well, this is the other

interesting thing as well that I found when I was researching, when I was reading your book,

is recognizing that these Indian, oh, sorry, these Indian, these, yes, Indian, but the Indian in

the Tibetans, they went internally and they've actually mapped internal landscapes,

mapped consciousness, right? Like this was, this was profound because, and I started to see from

reading a book was like the West has gone, given themselves astronauts and tried to pierce and

puncture out of space to the best of their ability by researching and going and sending a man,

when no man has been, but the Indo Tibetans have actually been sending a man, when no man has been

on the inside into these really profound spaces, which is, like you said, Tibet was like this

demilitarized country, it was so advanced, like what was that? Like they would just shoot off into

another life, leave life, and then potentially come back and then identify and have conversations

with people saying, this was me in my last life, and then they would confirm it because the culture

was open to it, what was going on in Tibet? Like that is just, well, what was happening was,

the point is this, the inside the outside are not connected, they're not not interconnected,

they're interconnected, so it's also possible to go to other planets, there are trillions,

countless numbers of humanoid planets on this, in just unlimited universe, there's also

unlimited other gardens of Eden, like this, to think that this would be the only one is totally

paranoid and weird, you know, nobody's looked at the night sky and seen this infinity of things,

and then knowing what we know about solar systems and planetary bearing stars and et cetera,

and thinking that this might be the only one, and settings that spend a trillion dollars sending

out Beatles music and Mozart and Robbie Shankar, and you know, wait until somebody sends them back,

it's crazy, or even that stupid musk, he thinks he has to have like, he's going to put like, you know,

like data centers in space, it's going to put giant, it's going to pollute space with huge

material objects that are not going to, of course, become junk flying around the planet and

bounce onto asteroids or whatever, instead of just going in a subtle body, without having so much

weight to lift, and goes find another planet, and actually in the Indian literature, a lot of

beings, bodhisattvas, high beings, have come from other planets, and they it is, and the Brahma,

of a particular planet, the Shiva, the Vishnu, the Krishna, they can go other planets where there

are other human beings, they have other Shiva, some Vishnu, some whatever, you know, and there,

and they're, you know, you can have this kind of body we call it the Maya Deha, the illusion body,

whether I like proper protocols, the magic party, because illusion is a little rude, because it goes

with the sort of dualistic Sanskya idea that matter is female, and it's kind of an obstruction

to the pure male spirit, the Prutsya, you know, it's a little bit Indian patriarchy in there,

that's kind of poison, and so, no, we are avoiding, it's going to be, it's being avoided,

thankfully, it was much less than the Dravidian people and probably in the Harappan people,

in my opinion, that's just, you know, I don't have, I don't have a good data, but I'll let,

but never let data get in the way of a good theory, I'll never have,

so one of my colleagues just cheesed me that way, so what you said that to me, so my point is

that that's how to go to outer space, is to discover the reach of the imagination,

and that the imagination creates things, you know, and that, you know, that wonderful Jewish guy,

I love him, Yuval Harari, to do homo Deus after his homo sapiens, he tried to do homo Deus,

but it was so boring, because he stuck, he knows his audience is a lot of materialists, so he

was scared to kind of really go crazy about the Deus, wow, Judaism is the most magical of all,

let's see if it really is, it's really amazing, but he doesn't know that side of it, you know,

so he couldn't do homo Deus, but we will be doing that, we have to do that now, why?

Because we can't, did you, by the way, have you read or do you know, I thought originally

Indian lineage person, although you may be generations in Australia, I have no idea,

but did you know, did you read or aware of the book by, um, dollar import called the golden road?

No, no, the golden road. Yes, it's about ancient Indian, um, impact on Eurasia, all the rest of Eurasia,

the huge trade and the giant hordes of Roman golden coins in South India,

from buying all the wonderful Indian exports with these big huge ships, of course, in the golden

road is the Indian ocean, monsoon winds, that go east and west in different seasons, and so they

drive, you know, commercial boats, and then when the Rome got so poor, because they got so

decadent, and they lost their empire, and then the, you know, the busy gods came being a problem,

and all this, and they had no more gold to buy the stuff, they started selling it out into

Indonesia and to China, it's about Indian, massive, you know, the wonderful kingdoms in South

India, and then, you know, the, um, Chola, and those kind of dynasties, you know, and they,

they sold stuff to the emperors of China, and, and, uh, fabulous wealth. So he was, the golden road

means it's not the Silk Road, he's complaining as a historian about the invention of Silk Road,

which Chinese are all begun, but it only was invented in the 20th, 19th century, and only after

the Mongolian empire for a while, otherwise you couldn't trade across Asia because you could be

robbed on the way, you know, and the big trade of throughout Eurasia and the wealth flowed from India,

and guess who it flowed from? Did it flow from the Brahmins? No way, the Brahmins only come,

go on the ocean, don't leave the whole India, don't do business, no, no, no, just whatever case,

you have some wealth, let's have some rituals, but they, they were against business, the vegetables,

they were not into the Punjabis, so the Sikhs and the Buddhists, and the Buddhists had big

monasteries, and so they would lend money to guys to buy a big boat, build a big boat,

Island Kerala, and sail over to the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf, and sail spices, and silk,

and all sorts of things, you know, to the wealthy people and those the Western empires,

so far from being a backward country, they were the leader of the economy of Eurasia for

for thousand euros, you know, and then the people came there to conquer the wealthiest place,

you know, in Eurasia, India, and they released the first batch of conquerors and circulated

wealth within India, and with them as the Chateas on top, and then the Europeans dragged

that took it out, you know, with their railway systems, and then they, then they pointed, and

since my lifetime, I've been dealing with people and South Asian and real studies and things

about my thing from Tibet and India, and they're like, oh, that backward country is so poor,

or is that mean how they robbed everything, and took it to England, France and Portugal and

there ever again. What do you think about the cost? The reason I brought it up is that zero

essential to the AI, you know, to the digital universe, to the, to accounting, to CPAs,

to industrialization, did not reach the Europeans until the eighth century, or the Chinese,

they were putting pebbles at all, you know, to accounting, so they had that because, you know,

in China at least, but they didn't have zero, and so, you know, I think that's so intuitive to us,

where we have columns of the zero, then we have the tens and hundreds and thousands and 10,

thousands and thousands and millions and good seven seven, you go up to as far as you want,

and add a zero, you know, they couldn't do that until the eight common era century.

And they got, they think, they thought at first that they got it from Baghdad,

but actually the Baghdad's got it from India, and Indians invented it,

and the Indian astrologers, and who were also astronomers, and they were predicting

eclipses, isn't it? They even had a heliocentric model earlier than, like the Egyptians said,

if you're buying your thing, but it never caught on popularly, but they had it, the Indian mathematicians,

so they were really good, and that's why they're such good engineers now, so for the good

of math, you know, they were way ahead. So, you know, we still, and there's things,

the whole super power thing today has to do with the empire is not giving it up,

and that's why we're still having these conflicts and wars, and they'll be over-shoon, I think.

What do you think changes that? But the reason it'll be over-shoon is because the planet is not

going to allow it. They burn down Los Angeles, you know, it's going to burn down Mumbai, it's

going to flood Madras, it's going to, they don't have in Tehran, they have Donald Trump and let the

Yahu chasing him, and they have their own women chasing him, so it's more, it look complete,

like patriarchs there, but the other people who are chasing him is the planet today, or they're

ready to abandon Tehran out of drought, there's no water in Tehran, did you know that?

Yeah, out of water. Tehran reservoirs are zipped, like Madras almost went zipped,

shaped down almost went zipped, you know, you can't live like that, you know, like

screwing over the planet like that, and those oiligarks will have to pay for it,

instead of just letting tax-based people try to pay for it, but they can, or insurance companies

will won't. So therefore, the people in Minneapolis are going to have the say, you know,

have the people of where Moscow, finally the Moscow ones, you know, for all the money Putin spends

on trying to destroy Ukraine, he spends more money suppressing his own people, I don't know if

you know that, and also his own people is a small country, it's the only Moscow via, right?

It's a large for Europe, but it's not that much bigger really than Germany was before the

Second World War, you know, when they had Kaliningrad, but Germany and so on, and Czechoslovakia

and Austrians and so on, so they're not much bigger than that, the Rus ones, and then all rest of

them are all imperial conquests, you know, the Burjads, the two ones, the Baskortis,

the Stangs, a lot of Muslim ones, and the ones in the Caucasus, totally not Russian,

and so that they didn't devolve under the pretense they were liberated, everybody with communism,

the development of empire did not develop the way the British one and the French one and the

Portuguese and the Spanish one, and so that's why they're making noise, the KGB, and they're making

a fuss, you know, and trying to overthrow everybody because they're pissed off, they're not a super

power anymore, their economy is less than it was. Yeah, this was, and the Fabigé X,

I know the, I know the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, I like Modi personally,

but he's a pan too, but he's really stupid sending 10,000 Indian workers up there who are

getting shoved into the front trenches. Of course, they're not going to just work them,

the Putin is cemented and insane about Ukraine, because, because Kyiv is actually, was the main

Rus center, actually, not Moscow, Kyiv was in the ancient time, but everybody, anyway,

never mind that, my, so, but I'm just saying that the people cannot be bamboozled and crushed and

murdered by these greatest dictator, would be dictator people that can't last. And, and, and,

and all of it is not really their fault. It's a, it's the militarized structure of the colonialism

that is not killed fully devolved. You know, this is one thing I didn't know until recently,

did you know this? Talk about uninspired evolution. When the UN was formed,

the powers that be of that time who are all XM powers, right, all five of them, they wouldn't allow

African or Asian countries that had been boundaries and made into nations under colonial occupation,

where the colonial method of putting a minority on top of a majority to dominate the majority,

so the minority would need the outside colonial powers defense, in case the majority got to

piss off, you know, that was typical, like who do and to see, you know, everywhere, whatever

situation. When they applied to be nations in the UN after the World War, they tried to apply

as more ethnically homogeneous nations, and they were forbidden. You can only apply under the

boundary we drew in the Congo and in the, in the Uganda and wherever it is, only under our

thing. So if there's a minority, so St. Hallease and Tamil, you know, everywhere, that these

things that have been blowing up ever since have to do with that. So five powers knew that,

and I love all the five powers. The Russian and the Chinese, the previous empires, they didn't

dissolve, and the Chinese have a big presence. We were conquered in the Japanese beat us up,

and we were all so horrible. And now we have to conquer the, we have to conquer the Turkessani

people, the Uyghurs, the Tibetans among the Orleans, and we've got to conquer a lot of people.

And now they, now they're, they're using Russia to slam into Europe, and they're planning to conquer

Siberia. Trust me, not Taiwan. They don't care about Taiwan. You're not going to put an

outboard motor on Taiwan and go to Hawaii. Taiwan is right under China forever, no way.

Well, it's interesting how you even, I found it quite revelatory to realize that Tibet,

there's a whole fight for Tibet that's going on. A million people have died. And it was interesting

because what you, what you spoke about was fundamentally that Tibet was never a part of China.

Tibet was this land of like, you know, it was, it was kind of like a Himalayan land.

In many ways, just like this evolved and lightened bunch of people doing deep

in a consciousness exploration, incredibly spiritual, incredibly dynamic. And yet evolving,

growing, evolving, growing as a collective society, they demilitarized as a country because

they could see, they were so ahead of their time, they could be like, hey, this is not sustainable.

Like, so we're going to demilitarize, but they had China over here and they said, hey, China,

like, you're going to be our, like, our little brother. And if anything happens,

you'll come to our aid, won't you? And I'm like, yep, we'll be there for you. We have deep

reverence for Tibet. Well done. And so then, but then the UK or England or whatever you want to

call it, wanted to trade with Tibet. And so before they didn't put Tibet onto everybody else's radar,

they started to trade with China, but it was actually Tibet in for some of the things,

but they didn't want other people to know they were doing those things from Tibet. And so now

that boundary for trade maps got drawn as China with Tibet in there. And then hundreds of

years later, China's moved into take occupation of it because the rest of the world already saw

that boundary because of a trade thing, but they'd let it's like, well, sort of, not completely.

Okay, cool. Can you tell us? Yeah. And they were maps showing Tibet as separate, actually in France

and other places, but that's right. That didn't happen. And then, well, then the Brits wanted

Burma more. They realized, and I found the letter, I mean, this is a different political topic,

maybe, than you wanted as part of evolution, but there's a letter that I found in the East India

library on the embankment in London, in an exhibit, which they now deny that it exists,

but I actually saw it. And I showed it to them. I'm actually moving there for an exhibition

and a letter by Churchill in the 1923 to the governor general of India.

Because at that time, the 13th Alabama, it's a story, nobody knows, it's kind of cute.

He kept sending very young kind of adolescent-looking older Tibetans, like middle-aged Tibetans,

but who look very young, you know, they don't have much facial hair and everything.

And he sent them, pretending they were sending them to Eaton in this kind of thing,

in groups of two or three. But then he had one old guy in there who was a plenty of

potentially, and who would try to escape from the Britain and get across the channel and go to

Geneva and make the presenter Tibet's application to the League of Nations. And the governor,

and then the British MI6, or whatever preceded MI6, would catch him and take him back,

because the British didn't want Tibet to be recognized as a nation. And then the governor general

of India, named Isaacson, a particular one whose name was Isaacs, who was the only of all the

governor generals, the only Jewish ones, so he's a little more globalist, a little more, you know,

multi-national, and intelligent, you know. And he wrote to the Admiralty, or to whoever,

for an officer, and said, I want you to let them go to be a nation, because we want

to try and, whatever government there is in China after the mantra has fallen now,

in 1923, that is, we don't want the Chinese to get there, because we trade with Tibet,

we get a lot of wool from there, we get salt, we get certain things, meat, we like to deal with

the Tibetans, we don't want China to grab Tibet. So Churchill writes back, sorry, no go, we understand

that from the largest point of view you want Tibet to remain a buffer nation against China, you

don't want China up against India, we understand that, but don't worry, nobody will ever go up there

anyway, points of reacts and whatever, and we don't want to have to defend it. So, and then

be, which was the main reason, however, are Hong Kong people, they use Tibet as a chip,

and they tell Chinese, when the nationalists, when they're negotiating something,

well, we got you guys have Tibet, it's your fear of influence, like you and I also have Burma,

it's our fear of those ones. So, we don't want to be denied that by us pushing Tibet to be

recognized as we know the dollar number one, so we're not going to do it. So then nowadays,

the British like Miliband, those people, they pretend they can't find this letter,

I saw it, I saw it a few years ago, in 1984 actually, too many of Mario time is so quick,

and then I called down a lot, I got so excited, I said, you're holding this look, you're holding

Winston Churchill as a young man in the foreign office, is selling out the Tibet already in 1923,

come look, so he doesn't like me making a fuss like that, but he likes to be polite with a host,

until he was little, but he did come over, and then he looked out like that, and he saw it,

and saw Churchill singing to her, but then he didn't really read it, and he was in a glass case,

you know, and he looked at me and he said, you look, I said, you look, he says, you look, he says,

you know, there wasn't news to him, there wasn't news to him, and he wanted to be polite,

which is his job, you know, as a responsible one, you know, but then it was a side story,

it's kind of cute story, some people might like it, let's look back to the real spiritual thing,

the key thing is for inspired evolution is that when you restrain something that you know is

less than your best, I don't mean you person, I'm just talking to you with everybody,

then and you just, just restrain it a little bit, if you're going to lose your temper, you just

do it mildly, or you don't say anything until you've taken a few breaths and calmed down, or you

say it's less than the worst insult you can think of, you say something a little more subtle,

or you, whatever it is, or you don't grab it to this thing, or you share something,

whatever tiny thing you do, that is evolution. By doing that, you're moving into a type of flow,

where you're moving to greater happiness, when you're kind to another, then you're moving to

where others will be more kind to you, where you, in other words, sort of the great lesson of

Shanti Deva, did you reach Shanti Deva, I'm sure you did, the guide to the bodhisattva way of life,

if I could look at it, it's still, it's such a beautiful book, written in eightth century, by

someone who had some other name, or we don't even know what it was, but he decided to take that name,

because he saw the people think my name is Shanti Deva, I don't think there's a god of peace,

so that would be great, so, and he, he's most amazing poem, really beautiful about compassion,

you know, about many, many things, and it was really beautiful. My favorite is that I will never

in my life, if someone asks me, where is the bathroom, or where is the uptown, or where is

whatever the museum, I will never in my entire existence in all my lives, I'll never point with one

finger in the direction that I know they, I will direct them to go, I will never do that, I will

use my whole hand, I will use my whole hand, like ushering honored guests, to get to where they

want to go, and I will think in my own mind now, I'm ushering you toward the bathroom, I need to go

to someday I will open the door way to enlightenment for you, you know, isn't it, I think, because

body language, you know, and you point with index finger, it's like, you know, I'm passing you,

I know you don't know, it's like a little domineering, right, as we know people when they get

better, politicians, you know, like that, but when you're like that, you're inviting,

and that, that's so beautiful to me, that, that's evolution, you follow me, that's inspired evolution,

you see even in my mind, gracious is the body language, for example, you know, and that's inspired

evolution and if you if you re, if you realize that karma means evolution really, as far as it is,

the way I mean it has other meanings, but that's the most important one,

in in dic philosophy and everything, subsequent to 500 before the common era,

approximately around 7800, who knows exactly. And it's just wonderful. I just think it's wonderful.

That's inspired evolution. And then the idea that you can, the other inspired evolution is you can,

if you're a neuroscientist, which is one of the loyal and most favorite types. And you begin

to realize that, you know, yeah, the brain is a miracle. Totally. It's more far out in AI.

It's like, it's like BI brain intelligence. And it doesn't have to go in outer space with

Elon, and it doesn't have to go in and suck up everybody's electricity out of Los Angeles.

You know, it's, of course, it's somehow packaged in the skull case here.

Or realism, some, some, some, some dull, right, some dull, and it still functions. And, uh, and,

but then some things that you can do with the brain from within the brain. As a yogi, developing,

you know, one-pointed echo, chitasek, agudah, one-pointedness of mind, and developing devotional,

one-pointedness and focus. And then moving your mind around to your heart center,

or your throat center, your navel center, your secret center, your brain center,

you know, and opening the lotus petals of the, of the, uh, the, the, what is it called,

vagus system, down the whole, the whole, like the octopus-like whole nervous system, you know.

And you can learn to maneuver around inside your nervous system as a master yogi,

any human being can do that, or any yogi, or yogi, or yogi can do that. I'm sure you're a yogi.

All six-even engineers, they're kind of yogis. It's the kind of engineering of health, or yoga is.

Yoga is not something, the, the weird thing. It's yoga is practical, medical, therapeutic,

self-care, actually, basically, really, up to a point. And then yoga can go to where you learn to

use your subtle system. That is most of it. That amazing brain that they poke in, and then they

give different drugs to, and they sound wondering why it behaves like this. And so they are interested

in that, the idea that might be this interior science that will deal with how to move energies

around and deal with dopamine and, and, uh, and, uh, and, uh, and, uh, oxytocin, and, uh, where they're

generated, and how to take care of them. And, you know, right, they just discovered, I mean,

they just discovered all the stuff that microbiome has different genetic codes as other living beings

in our stomach. You know, Mavira and Bruna, and potentially they knew that there was 80,000 bugs

that are other creatures. We were calling the creatures they knew that. The ancient time, they knew that.

That was one of their things, again, suicide, that you're killing a lot of other beings that live

in your system, in your own body. You know, so, uh, you know, Indian, Indian science is, and

spirituality is, is best channel for this, and all of them is great dream. Anyway, I think he's

grateful in a personal way. He's very sad for his people, and he's very sad for that, but he,

he's a kind of universal person as, as people are nowadays, you know, you are too. You're not

to put the hobby, you know, you're a male bunnies there, but you're also put the hobby, and you

also realize that there's all kind of people in every country in the planet, almost except for Japan.

And it's just still like ethnic, you know, but they, but they have their chance

to be in my empire, but they blew it. They got too rough to end these anti-science crazies.

You know, the oiling arcs who want to pretend that you all over planet will absorb endless oil.

They'll go back to coal even. I mean, they're just really, really child infantile and criminally

infantile. And, uh, and everybody, you know, everybody tells them, no, but they won't listen, you know,

I mean, can you speak to us for a bit of, um, boundedness and unboundedness? Because I think the,

the translation that people give is the book of the, the Tibetan book of the dead. But actually,

there's a more literal translation, which is actually all about liberation. And it's quite the

thing to meditate on in that this life is something we're bound in. And then we become unbounded

in certain ways. But even on the other side to your point earlier, you said it's kind of foolish

to think that even then you're not bound to something. Um, and there is something. But then,

but then liberation becomes this, whoa, how do you transcend into something like that? That's

sound. Is that mocha? Is that mocha? Yeah, yeah. Well, no, no, yes, that's one form of mocha,

but the day there's a danger and thinking of mocha is getting out of connectedness. That's

dualistic. Not even that, and it's also irrational and it's also stupid. Why? Because as we can

sign one said, the idea that the world cannot is not infinite makes no sense. Because again,

it's a kind of a reification of nothingness. Because to be limited, you have a boundary,

and you're limited within that boundary. But a boundary always has something on the other side.

To be a boundary, if you have a boundary, supposedly, there's only nothing on the other side.

Then it's not another side. And actually, nothing is nothing. So it's not space. Nothing is not

space. It's nothing. So therefore, there's always going to be something on the other side. And

that's a simple thought experiment about the use of language. And so, and furthermore,

you think of yourself, Amrta, you are bounded. But you're also infinite. Because you cannot

exclude from your boundary infinity. Infinity means unbounded. So that shows you that our words

are very conventional. And they depend on each other as to create differential

sense of meaning. And actually, they are kind of, they sustain paradoxes very well,

because a bounded thing is also unbounded. Because infinity permeates you and me. We're both

immersed in infinity. But we have a self image. We imagine ourselves as bounded and not,

and we think of infinite sort of a big space outside somewhere. And then,

we have that, because we're taking that opposition, which we create with our concepts and we're

grounding it in reality, projecting it into reality. You get it? We're imaging it. It's not

to say imagine, since we think that's something unreal, we're imaging it. So what I'm saying is,

therefore, there is this, since we're like that, and since we make, for convenience,

our amazing brain has organized, where when I see the color blue,

its blueness seems to come out of the blue to me and fits very well with my idea of blue,

unless I'm colorblind. But actually, I'm constructing the blue. My brain is constructing the blue.

It takes some effort, and you know, they prove that in some cultures, they don't have the same

color scale that that other cultures do. And then, for example, ancient, in the Iliad,

an Odyssey, an ancient Greek, Western, it's all crazy about saying the anglos. So, you know,

they thought the ocean was red. It took about the wine red ocean. It never called blue.

So maybe they didn't have a neural wire ring in the concept of blue. And, you know,

the sky looks blue in certain settings, but if you're in a deep, well, look up in the whole

looks blackish and so on. So, I'm just saying this now, this was known about language by all the

ancient Indian, inner scientists. And because of that, we have all of us, the Terabata Buddhists,

the Sankhya yogis, even the Vedanta Nandulis. Actually, they, the Anta,

Adwaita means undoubled. It's not, doesn't really mean undule. Adwaya means

Nandul, not without toolness. Adwaya or Adwaita, but Adwaita means undoubled. So that means

the one real thing is when you go in Somali with Tatwam Azhi. Aham Brahmur asked me,

a wonderful Indian daring to be God. You know, which is wonderful. God loves it. He doesn't mind.

He wants people to realize they are amazingness, you know. And he and she, they do. And my point is,

so we do, in our mind, since we're used to our concepts fitting in our world or we would feel

like dizzy or out of control, we think that something beyond the world is also a thing. So we,

and we think maybe that'll be nicer than here where things bump into us and we get sick and

grow old and die and whatever we worry about it. And people don't pay attention to us, whatever.

And so then we want to transcend. And that's good that we should try to do it.

Radya Paramita, transcendent wisdom, I wish it achieved. But then the amazing thing is,

when you become, when you can, if you now could identify yourself, you emit

as infinite. At the same, the way you identify yourself as limited emit.

Simultaneously. But the part that was imaging yourself

became automatic as the automatic of thinking on me and my body was just as strong.

Then, you know, or stronger actually because what I don't bother with a body, I'm a cloud of bliss.

You know. And so if I had that going in the middle of talking to you,

then I would be much more present to talking to you. And I would realize that

this is transcendent what we're doing. So I'm more even than it is relative.

It's more absolute than relative. And therefore, absolute invests itself

in the relative being maximum excellent for every sensitive component of it,

like any sensitive being, sentient being, and sensitive being.

And any sensitive being was a feel good, not bad.

So the absolute becomes the goodness of life. In other words, and that's the non-duality.

That's what Advaita is after. And actually, also especially Bhakti.

I had a followed by Bhakti friend who was intensely anti-shankar because he said he was dualistic.

Because he said, Krishna's loving to the human in the world is non-dualistic because this is the

garden of Krishna, the world. It's like the garden of Eden. It's that everyone is beloved.

Nobody has left out. Everyone's blissed out. Everyone's in love with Krishna.

Krishna's in love with everybody. That's almost you could say Bhakti is the supreme Indian achievement

of a massive society, right? Like when you were a big fancy engineer,

making lots of money, and you would go back to Punjab and see some grandparents or great-grandparents

or great-great-grandparents, whatever it was. And then you have like your dignity and your persona,

and I'm an engineer. And then the holy comes around and they start throwing paint on you.

And they make you drink bond with them. And they mess around. And it's like, we live only one day.

But you know, it's like it breaks the whole thing down. It's a humanless and it's a beauty of things,

you know, and then you come your color of the flaming, all of it's like some kind of super hippie.

Yeah, the Sikhs are a little bit more gracious. They say we live four days, not just one day.

Totally great. Totally good. So anyway, so that's the thing. And I love it, inspired evolution. I

really do. I really like it. And I think that Guru Nanak, for example, what is Guru Nanak

do? He wants to feed everybody. Do you know my friend Hanuman Das? No. He's also from Punjab Sikh

originally. He's an English citizen, British citizen, and he lives in London,

a base, but he goes all over the world and he has that of a huge like, you know, free kitchen

that he moves around with him and his volunteers. And they like, they were on the Polish border for

Ukrainian refugees at the beginning. And they were, they tried to go to Gaza, but they were in the

Gaza Plotilla, but they were kicked out. And they went, you know, everywhere, where there's some

catastrophe going on. I think they tried Darfur. I don't know how huge you got. But I visited them

you know, I've been best meet him personally, and then I visited one of his food bank things in

London, in the downtown on the street, you know, the apartment and people were in a long line.

Some of the junkies were fighting each other, and they were saying, come,

and then they were treating them. They, I got in the line in April, and I was like feeding, but then

I was didn't do it right because I was out of the bag of different breads. I was giving picking

one and giving it to people. And they said, no, no, they like to pick their own, you know,

and they put on a little club, you know, they picked and put on a club and they go and

picked their own little piece of bread so they feel independent and picky.

And I didn't, so I was learning, you know, so I haven't done that much on my ivory tower, wasted

person reading old texts, you know, but I really love that sort of thing. That's what's going to

happen in the 2030s, I think. Don't you have, in your Vedic astrology, don't you have,

this is time of Rahul? We're moving into a very interesting time. There are big shifts on

the foot in Vedic and in Western, and in numerology. I mean, on all fronts, it's an unprecedented time.

Yeah, and 2026 is really tough, yeah. Yeah, we are 2027. We start to grab a bit more of a

a grapple hold. And then 2032, to your point, 2030, 2032 is like this, we open up into some really

nice, clean air. It looks like, but it's an interesting way there. Let's just put it that way.

There are some, there are lots of things happening across all modalities that, I mean, it's all,

it all boils down to the same truth at the end of that is, it's an interesting, yeah, there's a

lot of interesting angles and lots of interesting placements. Can you speak to us, Robert, of the

importance of the moment of death? Because it seems like in the Tibet system that look at this,

the whole thing is focused on a singular moment in time when you transition.

Listen, let me go back to that you mentioned. That's right. Book of the dead is just a

band-vented Western title based on the early, the first Anglo who translated was American

guy, Evans, and he thought that was such a thing as the Egyptian book of the dead. So this must be

that. So we call it the red book of the dead, but they were not that good. And in fact, I,

I was forced by my guru with, who was so omniscient, the 20 year time lag in the 60s, he gave me

a Tibetan copy of it, of the original Tibetan, which I didn't want because it had been translated

and I was studying other things. And I kept putting it back in the library on the shelf.

And he kept insisting and giving it to me and saying, you're going to need this and you need this.

This is important. You keep that. I'm giving you this from the library and keep it and take it with

and so on. No, I don't need it. But then later, someone said, well, you do a new translation.

It's a publisher in the 90s, 80s. And I said, no, first, I said, no, I don't want to do it.

And then I thought, oh, no, he said they've needed it. And I remember I still had the book.

I said, well, okay, let me look at the other translations and look at the original.

And then I started and then I realized, of course, I needed it needed to be properly translated.

I'm not some weird thing, but the really useful thing that it is.

And then I used to say, I used to tip when I finished doing it. We're talking, sorry to interrupt.

But talking about the usefulness of it, just reading it, it is a transformative text.

There's like a whole different types of texts that, like, there are categories of texts.

And then you speak about this category of text is the type of text whereby the reader is transformed

just through literal reading of the text. This is a type of art form that this body

of text has. And I'm like, well, the sacred art of writing, like, what are we?

Incredible, incredible. That's right. That's right. It's pure Amrita.

It's totally Amrita. Yes, first of all. Because that's what I used to say to people when I

would do a talk or I did a book tour for it. Just on myself, they didn't, it was a reckless book.

It's by far my soul over my, my translation is sold nearly in copies more. I don't know,

exactly how many in many languages. Even though there's two or three other versions running around

because it's a big, it's a captive market. Everybody dies. Everybody loses loved ones.

So, but mind was, it remains very popular because I made it where they, when someone dies,

who is a Christian or a Sikh or Hindu or a Taoist or a Jew or Muslim or what, they're not going to

want to run into some Tibetan Buddhist version of the Buddha. They're going to want to meet Jesus

or Moses or maybe Muhammad is impossible because of their an iconism, the Muslims, but maybe

you meet the Sufi, even Arabic or something or you meet some, some angel or something. I don't know.

And for the Muslims, but anyway, so I made it where you can substitute people from within your

own culture, if you're helping someone who died, who you can't be, you don't have time to introduce

them to the wonders of Tibetan pantheon. And so, and so I think that's what made it so usable by

nurses and hospice workers and things like that. But the key thing about it, I just say, what's

the main message I learned from doing it? The main message I learned is there are no dead people.

Nobody says dead and I even have another slogan that I love to inflict on people. Nobody gets out

of here a dead. In other words, the holistic materialism where you're going to get out of the

consequences of your being rude and mean to grandma are not happening. You're right in the next

life and grandma is also reborn and you're going to bump back into grandma and if you were mean

to grandma, she might be a little less grandma is to you. In other words, it all goes on,

which means that you take your, you know, you don't solve your problems by dying.

You take them with you and you take your solutions with you at the point that's inspired evolution.

And so that's really, and then what the book of you don't have, and even you don't even have to

believe all the exact, all the exact, you know, the schematization of the death and dying process

that's it to wait to bitten and Indian until about what's called in Sanskrit. And the Indian yogis

and science and inter-scientists did, you don't have to like believe it. You just have to try it

on for size and think about it and then you get, you then you get, it gives you like a roadmap

of what might happen to you and, you know, you can do a Caspal Pascal wager on that,

which you did about monotheism, but you can do it about about future life and say,

if there is none, then I won't regret, there'll be nobody there regretting that I prepared in case

there would be. And in that case, there is that I have a roadmap and I know what to do.

Go to the light, don't go to the shadow, you know, go to the loud noise and you let it

pierce you through and don't try to hide from it, don't shrink from things, don't let fear happen

to you. But what's in that between state is like a dream, nothing that happens to you and that

between mid-state is going to really hurt you. It's just like a dream, hallucination and you

stay cool and calm and loving and then you're going to want when you re-embed it in the life form,

you're going to only be attracted to non-fear generating life forms, you're going to look,

you're going to go for beauty and you're not going to be afraid of ugliness and so on.

So, so anyway, so, so, so that's it and actually even there's one woman who wrote a great book

called Spooks, Irish like a name, I forget her accent, author's name, but something, something

Mary somebody, but she's a sort of scientific writer type of person and she wrote a book called

Spooks in which she was trying to ridicule all of the people looking into future life, past life

and so forth and so a big target of hers was people who remember children who remember past lives

because that's a big evidence for for continuum of lives of the mind, you know, the spirit.

And so, but so it's you do to to prove that she went to India and she traveled in some of those

cases that are getting to the papers where a girl from Lucknow has to be taken to Mumbai and then

walks into a family eventually when the Lucknow family finally takes her and she recognizes

everybody by name and she tells them where there's a treasure buried in the garden that grandma did

and she was the grandma, you know, type thing. There's a lot of those things that happened

and she became actually impressed by it and she mentions actually this was so real I couldn't

think of how it was faked and also they have no motive to fake it because she didn't get anything

out of the new family and she did the old family was bothered by it in a way but they they

since they believe it's possible they she's still catered to it to make her happy so but so it's

no you know it was they don't have a motive to be trying to deceive anybody that there's one

to newspaper article maybe nobody they don't get famous and but she says that nobody knows the

mechanism she says the mechanism so I wrote to her publisher and I said I want her to have a

copy of my book of the dead translation or book of natural liberation translation but they didn't

write back to me and I didn't I didn't track her down and I got this jubilee of 10 parts through

some people take the mechanism some very usually of how to get reborn

yeah with that moment and that moment and that moment of death is just so

instrumental in terms of setting the trajectory of how you navigate the afterlife which I mean

maybe you could introduce the word bydosed or what does bydosed even mean

of death is where you become I'm going to you become infinite you become deathless you totally

become infinite you become Brahma you become Prabhasara clear light light but there's also the

but like on your way there they're all these bados can you describe the bados yeah there's

gradations and you get toward that but when you go there you think you're becoming you're passing

out or you're being destroyed you know threshold is a kind of darkness experience like enough

thing that's type of thing and you might be frightened by but then be even more powerful that is

a blasting where you go like beyond sun moon you're like an infinite peaceful energy but peaceful

but infinite you're true amatar but you're but you're not prepared to welcome that unless you've

been a yogi and you have experimented with getting very used to letting go by having a deep

faith in the nature of reality that you will you cannot be tortured or destroyed ultimately

that the ultimate reality is sheer goodness that's that is the basis of it's what's called Prabhasara

in Indian Sanskrit and which means it and which is translated as clear light but it's like

Einstein's light it's not clear light it's light clear the sweater part is clear the Prabhas light

so Prabhasara in other words in a compound like that the second part of the compound is the

more substantive one so the clear part is what it is transparency you know the physicists have

discovered indirectly through inference they have discovered dark mass and dark energy and

course they're wrestling with dark black holes which is impossible everything can become nothing

but then they're it's challenging they're easygoing reification of nothingness that they've been

sort of hanging out with for a few centuries since the since the 17th century enlightenment

day card and people and they've been making them feel relaxed and reckless in life because they

think it's all going to be nothing anyway existentialist you know Jean-Paul Belmondo Pierre-Olefou

plus blow yourself up and bam that's existentialism so because you're going to be a happy nothing

and it's only happy in relation to hell of course it's not happy in relation to orgasm but

it's but they're really they're ready to give up orgasm in order at least not to have hell you know

that's been going on for centuries so that's why when we we've all been in that clear light

and we're made of it but but anyway I'm sorry I'm dying anyway so the scientists found dark

mass and dark energy which might be from 10 to 80 times more than the bright mass and energy

that you can engineer with at the moment they don't know what to do with it kind of you know

they have that great thing of two black holes colliding with amazing long like antenna

amazing thing I love that stuff they do you know it's great we love it and but they still don't

really understand it so but anyway it's great because it opens their mind to the invisible having force

and what shouldn't be you know only what you see and then Einstein is also scamming everybody

speed of light is the absolute because at its own speed 186 thousand miles per second or whatever it

is light is everywhere right am I right you know that is it 186 thousand miles per second I

think so or is it per hour I don't know speed of light yeah yeah but it isn't really

speed of light because at that speed why that's an absolute according to his theory is that light

is ever infinite is ever 300 meters can't go fast in that because then it's already everywhere

so if you're already everywhere you can't go anywhere 100 million meters per second right

so it's a total scam impossible concept actually why because you can't put it in a speed of

mileage because you never can accelerate to reach infinity the hustle doesn't have to hurt if performance

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event at Whole Foods Market if you if if you're everywhere that means you're already

there everywhere it's like if if you're going to be infinite you're already infinite you can't

get to infinity if all of me it's a negation it's an absolute negation which then leaves you

if you if you open to it you kind of let go to it then you're still here and then it's here with you

so this is the new thing they all old thing that the to grade in light many borders of the

Indian Renaissance of 2500 years ago I'd sell age of 25 600 years ago which is they discovered transparent

mass and energy which is the biggest mass energy well from which all nuclear the efficient fusion

etc whatever it's all those those are all lesser because why infinite energy again

doesn't do anything doesn't go anywhere everything's already done everything is abundant it's already

it's interesting when you describe it glad that because one would start to infer that it's the

substrate on which everything else is built but then when you describe it like that it sounds like

it's also the essence of everything that already is and will be well we think of it as a substrate

and then we would we wanted to transcend to that substrate yeah that's our dualistic

completely and that's fine but that's not reality what this is was the Indian discovery the

great yogi still in there all Buddha's all of them but they discovered was and a many people

and women discover why not people suffer this easily it's not that they promote actually because

that's what this is this and what not seems to be not this is all that and it's and you know

then if you think of abundance as enough energy to do whatever what I feel like doing in whatever

embodiment or sensitivity I have this is a bed of infinite energy and then even that infinite

is tolerating me running around thinking I'm a limit in this and I can only do that and then

maybe I'm a little more the other that's a sort of playful thing Lila that's the Lali Talila

that's that's good or not like living underwater with the Nagas for three days without dying

with the aqua long they gave him temper gills the beard has got gill a but then for

end of page he's coming up and then singing and then he's singing the infinite song

it called the Karsatnam and he's at the moment being squeezed by insane bunch of wild Muslims

and and a bunch of fanatic Brahmins and who are you going which one and he comes up with a new one

because it's too happy to anyone because he's discovered a reality itself is spirituality

and material and the two of us in a joyous celebration of pink bookshelf backings

what are you seeing I think you're going to get it up giving me a complex amount of bookshelf

from it if we mention it enough it's all up because it's non dualistic what do you

and then because of that realize this because of that they knew there was no nothing to be a scared

out and there's no abyss of nothing to be scared out and so they were free to use zero

in their mathematics to make it more convenient dealing with huge quantities and passive numbers

you know astronomical numbers and they and they then could do more counting number and the word

for zero is shunya shunya and that's the word for emptiness and Buddhism famous Buddhism

in shunya ta unless the ta right shunya ta did you go in some sense good in the way we see shunya

as well has emptiness also has silence in there as well the silence in there as well shunya ta

and then but shunya comes in from sense from the from the root shri and the root shri

means to swell and it's actually coordinate with with other indore european language like

jerman and for english to swell and the kind of emptiness in other words where a seed is

moistened when it falls in the soil from the tree or wherever you know and then and then it

swells up and then in that open space inside the germ of the tree can start producing the

gene of the tree of the of the seed can start producing the building the fiber the the

mycelial connection etc and bringing and and make the bush or the tree of a plant so it's a

pregnant emptiness in other words galbi galba which means womb is also sometimes used to

put a galba that's the everyone helps to target a galba and that's that that emptiness is an

openness to be your infinity since you are both finite and infinite don't be trapped just to

take your only finite you have to go find an infinity because you can never reach infinity

you can only it can only be real or have any reference if you're already there

he's following me i do a little bit that clear of mass that transparent mass and energy

is already here and it calms everything down then we don't need to conquer everybody else

we don't need to burn more and have more money we don't need to build a pyramid and

bomb ourselves and something we don't need to download ourselves in a computer like these insane

engineered google wants to do a good swap which we're happy to die and be born in a better neighborhood

with more mangoes it's all about the nice mom and dad as a happy human maybe there's some

vacation in one of the desire around heaven's going with christina but you know you become

consciously evolving you become a conscious developer because you know exactly how this gesture

and that gesture and this exercise and that one and this meditation that one will shape your

future you know the book of debt is infected with the dualism too because they keep saying in

the book of death you remember reading it oh if you don't just flip out as the point of death and

embrace the clear light and just love everybody and become like the Buddha then you'll be forced to

go and still look for a new incarnation and do something and you'll be driven by your instincts and

you listen now the other and so then you then you meet this Buddha and you go in his heart center

in the bright light and you go and okay then you'll be the clear light but if you miss that one

then the next one so they keep inferring that you're going to go somewhere else so they reinforce

that dualism of terrata you know which and which the ordinary person has where they take our

conventional dualism of yes and no up and down you know I heard or in in and out in and out

and they and they project that reality is like that and so can't imagine that we out that the

two could be one you know they could be in Nirvana they could there's an expression in one

short sutra the heart sutra where famous short sutra that always end people like where it says

then you succeed in Nirvana meaning your podcast is in Nirvana and yet you're very specific

if the podcast and you try to do the very best podcast you can because why not and in a way

what you know that there's in fact you're like a hologram like one word one molecule in your body

has in the whole universe in it you know and in a way Donald Trump therefore you know reaching

2032 Donald Trump is doing the world a great good service actually because he's such an idiot

that he's blowing the cover of all these people and I mean it says ridiculously evil but

he's blowing their cover because he's so completely megalomaniac he thinks that he's going to make

people worship to me evil guy and he's going to put he's trying he wants to put a giant arc to

triumph in the middle of the Washington more that will impede the airplanes from the local

Washington Reagan what they I can't stand that they call it Reagan but anyway the the local

airport they should just be the Washington airport and then and they're trying to stop him because

it's so it's so big the thing it's going to be the Trump arch of triumph it's really so he really

believes it because he's so crazy it's so sketchy and but that has been great because in a way it

is exposed Putin it is exposed the oiligarks it has exposed all of them and you know their

mistreatment of women their patriarchy their violence and he's totally exposed it and he's gotten

the good people of Minneapolis out of the street and New York and Los Angeles and everywhere and

that will eventually they're they're the kick-brows the insane musk and teal the two worst one and

jukebox those are the three worst and they are they are you know desperate that he'd not get

unseated from the house in the in November because they will immediately impeach him of course

into the majority and if you've been seated in both houses the Senate will convict for sure

if it's a majority even they try to try to because it's too destructive I mean the terror of

he's already caught the United States economy like trillion all tourism from Canada all tourism

from Europe everybody all the students from China all none of them want to come to this hell

but most of the global currencies currently backed by the U.S. currency in many ways that's obviously

old news yeah but that's old news now surely at this point the writings on the wall

yeah but China's dream of replacing it with Iran of course Russia is tiny economy it's like

less than the state of California it's tiny where do you see it going potentially what where do

you see it going well people have time to completely destroy everything and actually we do have

that constitution that if it was in force it for he would never have been elected the first time

I can't believe someone that got impeached got voted back in I just I just don't know how you do

that well well well just fun as an engineer I like to bring everything back to first principles

that I'm like we already removed this part that wasn't working in this engine potentially we

decided it wasn't working let's just say let's just be politically correct we decided it wasn't

working and we're running we we turned the machine back on and let's just put that old part back

what isn't it just like what way it was a worship of money it's a worship once you don't have a

future life and you're you're a reckless existentialist and then you want to get as much pleasure as

you think you can get in this life then you if you have trillion dollars you think that's going to

be the greatest pleasure actually the rude shock when they get a few billion even one billion

it's a horrible burden you know the the sociologists and psychologists you study happiness

finally they're doing it a little bit the last few decades they realize that

past a certain level of income and wealth you're not happy actually because then you get so

many hangers on and all the people hustling you and you get so paranoid you lose it it's it

becoming and you lose your close relations you know and you get paranoid I think everybody just

wants their money and they mostly do it's awful actually it's every billion is another 50 people

you have to employ and fear and and a guy like Putin he's most scared of his closest colleagues

that's the people he's most scared of the close ones like Trump always fires him because he's

most scared of the ones who are closer because the other ones who can get him he thinks

there's not scared of some far away one that's why he's into that loyalty business he's blowing up

the whole the whole less than fully enlightened progressive system and he's blowing it up so fast

that I think in 20 and this year we'll see some breathing room 27 will be better

than the ups and downs and then I think by 2030s it's going to be a century of happiness

on this planet Robert lots of people carry an anxiety and a fear around death yeah there's like

a palpable fear anxiety well that's yeah they do and then because of but but they will do and they

don't I can't speak to us yeah the holistic mindset and even some of the theistic ones

but they poisoned them to be like them and holistic mindset in the sense that they say God is

good in the monotheistic ones in the West but then they say but if you don't do what we tell you

God won't like you when you're going to go to hell which means God is a nasty sadistic

widow even they say you're going to help fraternity that's meaning God is worse than a Republican

in America so my point is that goodness is the rule you know it we are all patriarchal cultures

which are consumerist greedy in this life and they want everything in this life

and so therefore they therefore money becomes an object of worship

maman right the god maman they will listen god maman but you worship the money

yeah because you think money is big and you know you can't buy a better future life but if you

don't think there is a future life then you will care so money buys you well you won't miss life

you think and so that's what enabled Trump to the crazy person like Trump who should have been

in a asylum from a young age totally arrested and then in the property of those of course

but he should have that's how he's able to get such a power over everybody he's he's

personifying everybody's worst instincts and worst fears he personified and therefore they

love him because the ones who are really scared because they have such a bad attitude about others

that they're sure that the rest of the rulers have not been out of them and they're really scared

and then they think they take pleasure and see him succeed when he's obviously bad

they do so it's kind of a weird thing where they're tricking themselves out of their misery

and my point is that fearing death is the world is part of it but the other part is they crave death

there's a big death wish in people and they because they're hoping to get out of their fear of life

what is much more scary is pain in life death is just an abstraction and because that patriarchal

and authoritarian societies of the last 3000 years on this planet have frightened people so much

about their neighbor their next enemy their other their women people of other races

other animals nature is red and tooth and claw are so scared and then because they want people to

obey them and they say we'll save you our god will save you from this scary scene here yeah he's

good but he made this world where you're really scared and you should be because it's unfair but

by painful world what people should realize what they're scared of is pain and that is a sensible

thing to be scared of we should be scared of pain and we should avoid it but death is not pain

death is just a change of instrument and so what you should be scared of is if you have a door

between two rooms you're never scared of the door you're scared of what might be in the next room

if you don't know what it is and if you don't know what causes it to be the way it is for you

so you could only operate by common sense and your common sense tells you that

if I have been really nasty to everybody I know this week they are likely to be nasty to me on the

weekend I really know that I'm gonna have to go and I'm sorry to hear oh I didn't mean it

depending on how nasty it's been you know so we already know that by common sense so therefore

if we're going to live in a nasty way harmful to many people if we're going to own

stocks in nuclear weapons companies if we're going to if we're going to brainwash people with

negative thoughts and propagandaize them and terrify them and so on or lure them into weird

lustful things that just to plead their energy we are going they're going to dislike us

and after death will be something unpleasant you know very unpleasant which we will be making here

and we don't have to we don't have to speculate about it because we know very well

I thought I was nasty to everybody I know and everybody I can possibly meet for a whole year

it's likely that after New Year they'll be nasty to me so we know that so you know what goes we have

everybody what goes around comes around that's the ethical stuff yeah that's the ethical stuff

that's the ethical stuff though but the people are still afraid like people are afraid of death

what do they do with that fear well they're not really afraid of death they have to they have

to face first of all they have to think about death because they don't have to face their mortality

and that and for many people facing their mortality is quite an intimidating thing I know they

don't like to face it you and me I'm playing I'm 85 years old 84 and I'm planning to do stuff when

I'm 90 and I'm planning to be here for you know 20 I was ordered by a friend of me or 2032 when

it started to go better I was so a little bit a little sooner and then I'll be 92 and that's

unrealistic possibly but it could happen but the point is that means we are in denial that we are

the death is right here could happen in any second you know Putin could nuke Wall Street

and I'd be close to the blast center you know except I think his nuke still works like all those

Russians work because the guy who was supposed to maintain them bought himself a yacht and Cyprus

and an apartment in Paris and therefore he didn't renew the plutonium most likely most likely

never let never let data get in the way of a good theory

or I found out I thought it was very expensive to maintain nuclear weapons at a readiness

it's really expensive it's more expensive than building up the mosfah battleship is to keep those

nuclear weapons ready you know really just because they are some they're sitting in a metal

can't doesn't mean they're ready to go they deteriorate you know and have to be refreshed and the

plutonium refreshment is a huge issue very expensive anyway so I said to US you budget it and you give

the money to somebody the way the Russia military works it might be goes elsewhere very much so

as we're seeing you know all of us if we pay attention to Ukraine so so they just it's a matter

analyze what to do with it you ask me and so I'm saying you analyze death so guess is when I

lose my traction in this body so I should aspire actually every night when I fall asleep I

lose my traction in this body and I willingly do so in fact I'm tired I'm sick and tired I did

for a podcast I did three this I wrote down another another and I'm tired and I want to sleep

and so I go I let go of my consciousness and I as far as I know I might be falling into nothing

this I go into a nothingness of consciousness every night and welcome it okay so there's that so

then the materialists gave everybody what they want deep sleep forever and all these

cemeteries are called eternal sleep pleasant sleep heavenly sleep so then we die every night

we're not scared of that so when they were oh I'm not so scared to let go of my consciousness if

that's what it is well maybe it isn't that though that's more worrisome it's easy if I become

nothing I may be fighting maybe when I'm really old if I have a lot of arthritic pain I might

welcome it with the last big aspirin you know pain cover is death and people don't think people

don't deserve to use in Asia bills are going through many congresses in many modern developed

societies Switzerland I didn't legalize that England is thinking about some areas of Canada maybe

and you know other people are trying to avoid that so then people welcome it in lots of

different circumstances in a way crazy people who are like a sort of fight club of war is

eternal they're kind of thrilled to risk their life and and they have sort of become fearless

about death based on also the concept the concept in most of their minds either that there's nothing

after death or that they're holding warrior and God will take them to Valhalla or something you know

with the bell carries you know they have some big concepts it's going to save them afterward

so it's not the death part that's that's could be in many ways around the death part as being the

scary thing by people analyzing it and when they analyze it you know what happens it's not morbid

when they really think a lot about death even at your age or younger it makes them appreciate

every moment of life much more they get really into it in the Tibetan tradition you meditate first

you meditate on the certainty that I will die that my privilege of being in this body with this

instrument of sensitivity and intelligence is limited and I will definitely die and that bone

that sinks home takes a lot of work because we keep pushing it off then the second thing is

and I never would care no when it will happen so it could happen anytime actually and like

our highway system we go at 75 miles an hour down to Lane Road and somebody goes by us at 75 or 60

on the down that two right and the combined would be 130 mile an hour have two heavy objects

crashing into each other if there was a tiny it's worth at any one of them and yet we unbrinkingly

just zip by you know we zip by but it could be just instantly killed at any second you know

which is actually a good way no time for pain this being as high enough

and but once you realize that then and then this could be my last day this could be my last

podcast the last time I mean that I'm not that's what you would really hype not that we're

making good let's make it as best we can and so and then the third one of that is

when I do go what's the future then they have to analyze that then they do a lot of things and

actually I you know the French mathematician I think 19th or 18th century Pascal I think he

was really good you know he said right if God exists and I prepare for his existence and I try

to please him by living an ethical life or his commandments and more important than the membership

and the devotion is a ethical thing then he'll be pleased with me and if he doesn't exist that I

wasted time being nice when I could have been nasty I like sites that I know my big night so

then I'll not regret that I wasted time pleasing God but if I if if if I take the other option

of that wager and I say I'm going to wager and put my chips on not having any future existence

being nothing and I displeased God by what I do because I think there's no consequence to it

then if it is existing I'll I'll be really upset so they can transfer that to karma to inspired

evolution and say if I have no personal fruition of my evolutionary actions in this life

if I have none then I won't regret that I did some good ones in this life some inspired evolution

that reacts a body speech of mine this life I won't regret because I won't exist but if I

do bad ones and I behave badly thinking that there's no consequence and then there is

consequence and and and death is only a doorway into another form of life like when you fall

in a way that I have a teaching every night I fall asleep and I become blissfully unconscious

and I had suddenly in a dream and if I watched non-subhorror movies on the entire waking day before

it's really this is where it gets interesting so I realized that I have conditioned I have evolved

into a nightmare dream by brought to nightmares all day so I will choose not to do that

that's common sense I'll choose to watch pleasant things and do pleasant things

so that's that's because we do because we do we do see echoes about you like every other obstacle

in a way and in a way fear is not an obstacle because then we put fear where it belongs

we fear we are afraid of pain and we don't want to suffer horribly so we should do everything to

prevent ourselves from suffering and part of doing that we get to know as we become more experts

that is helping others become free of suffering and not inflict suffering on them and the more we do

that then less likely out there to inflict on us so that's one good one of the measures of

avoiding suffering is not creating suffering which isn't in that common trope that people say

that Buddha said life is suffering isn't that what they say yeah yeah there's two that was a very

good one and that's that's what I call Buddha's first fun fact that's a really fun fact

time and you know my friend my friend a certain meditation teacher that I have a friend

who makes a big fuss about the current noble truth as she calls it and of course that's about wrong

people with noble truth but if you know what noble means to Buddha when he calls it noble truth

noble doesn't mean of a high class or caste it's to him noble means to him he read out his word

noble to him who has achieved a degree of personal empathy because they have a natural noble

that's oblige because they sort of like Bill Clinton used to say I feel your pain you know

they feel that the people's pain they have similar neurons where therefore they react to

all the people's pain where they kind of feel it so the people who there's a there's a cognitive

threshold where you get out of self-centeredness and you get more empathy which artists often have

and good therapists and women have to a higher degree than men and so forth and just in general not

everyone of course and and and that's what he called Arya and then what they translate as noble

because the older meaning of that had to do with the three upper cast of course you know

the three Arya cast you know twice born deja but he re-value that and he said not by birth

are you noble you're noble by what do you have it and what do you know wisdom is fine and wisdom

brings empathy so so anyway I call it a funny fact anyway my friend called me say how can you

call teachers every other day I said well I happened to read her biography because she's a good

friend and she when she was young had a very hard childhood crazy father and a very ill mother

difficult grandmother was reasonable but it was very very bad for her she felt and when she was

in college she heard that one of the great spiritual teachers of mankind

said that it's normal people suffer and so she said to her it was it was an epiphany

where she said oh I suddenly realized other people were miserable too and that cheered her up

so then she decided she wanted to go and study with that and she became a meditation

meditator and then she became happier and then she became a meditation teacher so actually it's

it's happiness and it's fun it's fun if we realize if we don't involve as a sentient being

in our life we will suffer and it's normal and it's inevitable if you and it's key so it's very simple

if you think you're the center of the world universe then you put yourself in a situation where

no one else in the entire universe agrees with you and not only that

they think they're the center and then you're crazy to think you are

so if you listen to think you're different than them and you think you're more important than

then you're automatically going to be dissatisfied in it however you relate with them

they will not think you're important as you think you are they will not care much about what you

want they want you to care about what they want so you will suffer and that's all they meant

because it gives right away it goes with the second fun fact which is it's manageable to get

out of that all you have to do is realize you're driven by a fundamental misknowledge

and misknowing a misunderstanding and an exaggeration of your own self-importance

and you think that's natural and normal that's how you should be but that will always produce

suffering there'll be no satisfaction that and even when you have a moment of happiness in that

you'll never really enjoy it fully you could really give yourself to it because you're

whining into yourself inside said this is not going to last and you're comparing it even

this was better last time or this would be better in some other situation and you're it's not

major misery up to for you whatever pleasure whatever almost any pleasure that you have doesn't

measure up because it doesn't last so that's the suffering of change so that's acknowledging

that regular people overly self-centered people which are normal people that they that they do have

pleasure but what you're saying is not real happiness because it's it's called a happy suffering

of change so that's a fun fact the biggest fun fact is Nirvana is the only thing that's real that's

like saying transparency the infinity is the really real thing all of the finiteness has an

illusory quality to it it's the Maya it's not really completely real completely real thing is

the intention because it's you know bigger it's more absolute and it's because it's our content

because all of our concepts from within the relative which is all that we can experience since

we are related beings is the opposite of that is isn't all these absolutes and infinites and

and you know negations and things like that so how do you how do you feel about your own death if

you don't mind me asking I don't like my own yeah how do you feel about how do you feel about your

own death well I'm not afraid of it actually actually I'm not what doesn't mean that I'm not

enjoying my days and years and months which doesn't mean I'm trying to be healthy enough to stay

on till the 2030s so that the agonies of the Tibetan people the the the opportunity that we have

as human beings down the garden of Eden of this wonderful planet where we've had spiritual

teachers who could live underwater for three days without blinking an eyeball and then saying

wonderful souls to us I want to see it go in the right direction I'd hate to die when it's in this

terrible seat on the other hand death would get me right out of the terrible seat instantly

to infinity and I don't think I think I've had enough experiences

simulate and the simulations luckily I have learned very strongly what's called the royal

reason of relativity the king of reasons of relativity in ancient Indian Nagarjuna text

and that reason is that relational cannot you know absolutely is the opposite of relational

therefore a relational cannot experience an absolute no nor can an absolute influence a relational

in fact except by in direction in a way knowing that the absoluteness of the relational changes the

quality of being relational and even having an experience that you maybe expect to be absolute

because you feel you're leaving all relations behind which you can do in meditation it's not that

difficult it is it is somewhat difficult or not that difficult if you have the right instructions

I don't do it and I think in in the modern period we're going to have some early machinery and

virtual you know like meditation frequencies and yeah I think actually if we put our outer

science together the inner science people have that where a lot of more people will have much more

powerful minds actually they will develop much higher intelligence than they have now actually

homo days you know like like you vow you vow her hour is wonderful homo days idea I really think

what that will happen so I like to be stick around to see that or then the other thing I have to

might make sure is that I can be human next life that I can be in a in a democratic we born in a

democratic society where they were access to tea to inspire revolutionary teachings of some sort

no because they won't allow that in the other products society they just want the people to be

slaves whoever the bosses of autocracies just as in the old game of kings everybody was a slave

of the king if anybody has power arbitrary power of life and death over you you're a slave that's it

that's it so democracies they don't allow that so that's why it's inevitable way for people to live

and to be able to exercise their full intelligence and their full creativity so only way

soft power you know or Michael Jackson you couldn't help yourself

so I was reading the the Upanishads and in the second Upanishad in there's like a series of them

the little nuggets of I don't know wisdom light whatever you want to call them touch wood

the second one they they speak of death as the teacher and then he goes to see karma

yeah yama is yeah yeah and he goes he goes to go see yama and it's really interesting because there's

this you know there's this father who's basically he's he's he's kind of devout and so he every year

like before his like um cows and cattle or whatever you know is is about to die he goes all

offer it to god rather than slay it you know so he's just he's offering him and he gets his son

called Nashiketa and Nashiketa comes through and he goes hey um when are you going to sacrifice

something of meaning you know to his dad and his dad's like just listening to his son while

meanwhile he's sacrificing and the son comes like keeps coming up to him over the years and goes

when he's going to sacrifice something of meaning dad and he goes I'll sacrifice you to death

and so Nashiketa goes to death and he goes many have gone before me it's my leave on to you

many many have gone before me I shall go too and so he he goes and he proceeds and he waits at

death's door for three days and death is a death is a way and then death comes back after three days

and death here's a voice which says to death which says to Yama when someone comes to a spiritual

guest house it's it's it's right only righteous and and holy to really look after them really well

and this person waited for three days so then death comes to a mortal Nashiketa and goes you have

been in my house for three days and no you haven't been guessed it on um how best can I you know

how best can I serve you here are three boons ask for any three boons first boon Nashiketa being

a young man asks hey when I go back make sure my dad doesn't kick my ass yeah

when I get back we just make dad like be really happy to see me and Yama's like yeah I got

you back bro you're all good and then the second one he asks for a particular light of heaven

and it's it's a beautiful piece the third piece the third piece the second one first tell me

yeah the second one the second one is Nashiketa asks for the fire of the heavens which Yama

is connected to and through and he asks for the wisdom of the light of fire so he could bring

it back to the masses and in a form of a puljana prayer they can connect to this light of fire and

then death goes even further and says you you have the light of this fire but then also multiple

boons I attached to this anyone who does this ritual three times beyond can go to places anyway

that's a further beyond than what I understand in terms of places you go to but there's um so

that's the second boon and he gives it to the third the third boon the third boon he goes he asks for

and he goes death I would like to know the secret of life after death many say there is life after

death many say death is it you are uniquely positioned a giver of boons to give me this rare insight

death leaves consult with it himself comes back and says Nashiketa humble guest the

release me from my vow I cannot honor this boon oh okay I can't I can't grant you this boon

gods have come before you and they too know not the mystery of death Nashiketa I humbly ask

release me I let me out of this vow and I will grant you any vow I'll grant you another vow

grant you any vow but release me from this vow please Nashiketa Nashiketa goes death don't

follow with me yeah like don't follow with me everything else you will grant me will be pyramids

in skies and castles and plains and women and all these things but they'll be left here

they'll be left here I want to know the secret of the other side very good so then what

what happens I forgot and then death goes Nashiketa I have offered you everything

and you have refused it I think you might be a worthy student and that's part one of the next

like there's eight parts to that little uponishat within that section of death as a teacher and it

goes on to teach elements of the other side of the other life it's an incredible he teaches him

about future life and he teaches him deeply about morality he teaches him deeply about

about many things many things many things but these because the the

the punishments punishes him what does he say about that question oh doesn't there's a no yeah

that there is a giveaway there is a giveaway they do they do they do say there's like this hell

like there's this um there's this um there's a lot there's a lot there's a lot there's more than

that yes there's a future lies but then everything like it where it's leaning towards

the other things but I'm saying that's a key that was the key question yeah life yeah yeah and of

course there is and I'm gonna have to say really I'm as borrowers limited yeah actually

in Manjushri you did you ever hear of Manjushri?

No, Manjushri is a body it's a Buddha kind of but he's like Buddha posing as a bodhisattva

in this this world and he's um he's involved in the deep teaching of non-duality

is his thing Manjushri and Manjushri his name Manjushri

the gent manju means gentle and shri means glory so his name is gentle glory and that's because

he has Manjushri go sharp which is a gentle voice and the reason he has a gentle voice is that

his way of opening the door to people's understanding of reality is touches on what everybody

actually really knows so he doesn't have to be harsh in his expression because he he's appealing

to the wisdom that is innate in human beings and um anyway he takes a form called Yamantaka

Yamantaka which means uh I translated in modern cinematic terms as the terminator exterminator

that's what I call it and the death of death you know the killer of death or death of death

but then he had done something very good friends and Yama becomes an archangel of the goodness of life

in that myth in that legend about that so yeah and Manjushri he has a my head you know head like

a my head like like Yama is visualized in Indian yeah you know theology and he has many other

heads also you know and um so so emptiness and in that sense he is the sort of arch teacher of

emptiness a freedom of the zero of the zero being the Garbha the will the the womb of the blissful

life of infinite blissful life of Amrita blissful life then Yama is a chibi uh colleague of him

and Yama showing that in the Kataro panesad that she said that's terrible I haven't reread the Kataro

as well as that for so long I'm going to have to reread it oh you love it thank you so much for

teaching me that because I really I'm very fond of you love for me you love me you know I'm one

my main sort of the Leonardo figure in my scholarly life you know of the one who I feel is the greatest

teacher and the more recent time in Tibet is someone called Stone Kappa who lived in 1357 to

1419 and he got enlightened in 1398 in common era years I know these were just a Western common

era years but that's the year he was enlightened most fully enlightened and then he taught things

and he he's therefore around 1400 he started a huge renaissance in Tibet and everything and he

he's very close and fond of the mangy tree he luckily he had a kind of special gift where he could

meet mangy tree like angelic like he channeled mangy tree now and then luckily so I've worked on

that all my life and I really like tongue so that I that I would then not be up on the Kataro panesad

not remembering even more than everything that's really bad but this is but this is why we have

each other right this is what what around us say we're all walking each other home and this is

why we have each other so we can trade stories along the way I don't know you like Ram Das I love

Ramda I know I know I knew him when he was Richard Alfred no way yeah I was undergraduate at

Harvard at that time and he was professor Richard Alfred cruising mass out if you know Cambridge

and in a pale green I never like to call a pale green Mercedes convertible and he was very

lost I could fit picking up people he was really happy guy it was great you know I then he was

a complete switch over as to meet him as Baba Ramdas and took me time to do that and but then I

finally decided he was he was the first great American Hinbu ju saint

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event at Whole Foods Market i kind of want to use what you just said as the trailer for this

podcast well i'll tell you the story then i know because i had known him so long ago we were not

necessarily that close once he had his stroke and everything and i didn't i didn't go to Hawaii

or for and so on and then someone told him he was having a lot of problems in his mind about

something and he took and when he what he told him when i eventually went to Maui when he invited

me there and i came and then we talked about it he told me the problem and they didn't nobody

told me ahead of time it's actually what it was going to be but that he wanted me to come and that

he wanted to consult me about something so then when he told me he said here's my problem it says

i'm a Hindu and i want to join the one with my soul when i die and my but all my friends are Buddhist

he said and they tell me i can't have one and and and i like my friends and i can't believe this

can be possible and that this is it's apparently it's haunting me he said you know when he was in

kind of in a physically basket case i don't know if you saw him ever and now time he would speak

very slowly and hold your leaves on yeah he had the stroke but then i because i knew also he

knew me from when i'd been undergraduate and when i was maybe a bit more stoned than he was at that

time it's because we knew we were not doing it in a lab you know we were doing it on our motorcycle

and and then joni bias concerts in the sixties in Cambridge as well and and so and they weren't

giving it to us you know they were blame for it but they didn't we found out their own sources

already and in 1961 and so i didn't know that i couldn't come up with some Buddhist

karma because he was a failed loyal disciple of um i'm called maraji who was a Buddha but he

was taught in a Hindu form and um so but i didn't think all this i'm just saying i

and true i just you know instinctively said i i grew up for some way to respond and i said oh

well i have a i think i have a good choice for your good answer for you uh from a great yogi i

he said really from a yogi what was that what was that yogi beara but you don't know what that is

you don't you know yogi beara what no yogi beara was famous catcher in the New York Yankees

okay and he was then became the coach of the New York Yankee very successful coach but he was

known for saying very pitty weird things and then but did but Richard uh round us knew very well

he was because he was a Yankee fan as a young although he grew up in Boston he wasn't a Red Star

fan was getting a sports metaphor for spiritual advice he was it was a Yankee fan

and although he was from Massachusetts and um so so then he looked really delighted but kind of

surprised you know i said i said i said well what did he say was the answer to my problem and i

said he what he said was when you come to a fork in the road take it

let's go get bear that's non duality trans dualistic non duality and he totally got it

he did it in his head i think maybe because we had tripped together or something in the path

it's just click in his head and he just all great i'm gonna follow yogi beara and you know he

loved the humor of it also he was laughing away his shaking

but really it's your clip was recorded and the conversation was you know it was on stage with your

people and it's a court long and uh and i really loved them and then actually when he did die

kd was there at the very right away because when he died so i went to Maui right away

and kd is a great friend of mine and then kd came to me at menlob we had an event there

where we were working together on stuff you know bhakti and believe the dead and things like that

they we have a retreat center near new york city where we work and um he happened to come right away

and i swear i don't know of kd i actually mentioned to him again since then

and that he wasn't clear maybe it wasn't that sharp in his thing but when we prayed about rambos

together as day in one of the in public with a bunch of people we've got everyone to pray i think i

i scorya grafted and say let's really wish him well in the bardo and all that

i know kd does the bhakti he wants christina it's hard he didn't choreograph it i did

but he was doing it and we were all sending this great message to him now you're there you're

with the one but you still know about us so it's so it's one in one of all i love that part of the

translation that you made to be honest in the book like having those different days and what to

say and who you meet and oh my goodness the translations all of one auto you know like a hologramic

universe and you know and and i felt him i definitely felt him in the bardo and i felt he was

really doing well he maraji i'm sure maraji was helping him more than me than me and my little group

of 25 people in kd praying for him or however many we were and but i think he had he felt us too i

think he really did and i definitely felt him and i felt i say it was very happy do you know did

you watch a avatar do you love that movie oh i love love that movie i think it's 50 times because

after he came out i would see it every time i i was traveling a while at that time and i would

see an airplane every time and i love it so much but one of the amazing things about it that i

liked a lot there's a very big it toward the very beginning when jake makes his first transition

into a navi body yeah yeah yeah yeah i think he likes it he likes it it's eight nine feet tall

he has a tail wagging there and he ran mad destroying everything everybody out it was

wrecking the equipment in the lab you know you could really feel they really did it at the James

Kamen is this wrong no no i just i get i i trip up on sequels because rarely do sequels live up

to the originals the second latest one was still very beautiful all those the drama i don't like

as much seeing but just so it was really so awesome it's so beautiful it's so beautiful the world

is so the the nature of people and the nature coming back and being victorious and yes

having to like push back the violence against the bad guy so that they were inflicting but then

letting them free the ones who survived that then that's the connection we're trying to make

within ourselves as well to like restore some form around in a nature with that morality and you

think potentially doing nothing beyond the split brings a different reality the military is

trying to tell you that you have to use their violence to save yourself from the fear of them

doing violence to you but actually you don't and you can leave them go and they'll their own

violence just feeds back on itself and eventually they'll learn because they're just nothing but

they're nothing but they're a Netflix program everybody none of them are single

feature films that's over when it's over they're all Netflix sequels go online 80 like Chinese soap

operas they go on for 82 episodes so if they screw up in this life and the violence bounces back

on the Putin on the harry Truman dropping the nuclear weapon on top of the people in their sushi

show sore and the little shops who were not in all soldiers you know that's people in Kamonos and

Hiroshima and twice in Nagasaki you know I'm sorry those are really bad uninspired evolutionary acts

and violence as violence and so the next there's the next one in the next you know Netflix

you know you would develop the characters keep developing life after life after life after life after life

it'd be interesting if there was an avatar version of what we've been discussing today in terms

of people in a life and then coming back and then voyaging back into life and then

voyaging back and then he's teaching I remember that guy in the in the first sequel it was like a

Jake Sullivan clone I haven't seen the second one I haven't seen this one well it's good it's

worth seeing it's not as amazing as the first one of course it's a sequel buddy but it's it's so

nice to be back in the world it's a new elements that are very very amazing yeah really really he

keeps the whole world he's creating and the world is teaching the opposite of what these

oiligarks are doing to our planet because what they what they what the bad guys who keep

of course remember at the end of the first one the sergeant who was in that big robot you know

and who actually killed the eight-legged panther yeah and and and almost killed her but then she

got him with an arrow and then she found a guy you know a really great moment and she saved him

put the breathing thing out for him right for his human body and but that guy his big speech

to them before they went to invade and kill all these beautiful people was that they'll kill you

actually have to exterminate them because they'll kill you so it's fear feeding on fear you know

I know it was false because remember at the end he's sitting on the horse and he's in the knobby body

and the little the little corporate guy you know the little Stephen Miller guy you know the little

corporate creepy guy who wanted all the air energy you know you wanted that and oh by the way the

name of the element they were getting and they came back to the planet for the moon for to remember

the name of it no the name of it was unobtainium oh yeah that's right that's the name of the mineral

unobtainium and so what the world that that is that he is inductive that amazing camera

is inducting millions if not billions of people into that world is the world where nature is

goodness itself beauty power strength it's total goodness and it's more powerful than violence and

evil but it's not but it's greater power is not evil as evil so in other words once it's

they're no longer attacking he lets them go back to their own planet he let the Heliaders and all

those people the ones who didn't die an actual fight he let them go every has them loading up on

their ship and sending them home and of course they come back and they have more when they come

back because they're more prepared to deal with they were but it's not prepared enough thank

you I really like you know I really like yama and so so that the that the Buddha's view that's

why that's why the students of suffering is a fun fact you understand all those are four fun facts

four friendly and I translate instead of noble you see because westerners when they hear noble

well they think maybe oh oh it's profound the way you unpacked that that was apparent or some

barren or some duke or the king of England or something and they get all like fuzzy about it

but actually they also think snappy and like high-faluting Germans have a great word

hoch-nazic hoch-nazic what does it mean I know so there's a reason you don't want to choose

from some snappy person yeah you want to choose from a friendly person who's like a grace in

that nobility yes that's what I think friendly is better at the moment later they all realize

what Buddha meant there's another meaning of noble and then the fun is important because there's

such a huge reputation about Buddhism and many Buddhist teachers have traded on that because

people are miserable and they go and say oh yeah he said you'd be miserable and now you are

miserable and that's what you should be and they just rub it in and then they say so meditated

you'll be fine and again they make themselves invaluable to the person so they're selling

something to them but that's not that's not good point is those are if they're unenlightened

the Buddha was not as pessimistic even as Socrates who said the unexamined life is not worth

living he said but had never said the life of suffering is not worth living he said the human

life is an absolute priceless treasure because the person who has a human embodiment and a human

intelligence and especially if it's not there could be some other defective and even that is still

close but the one who is good is full fifth-feet faculties because the opportunity of becoming

of realizing their infinitude as well as their finitude and marrying them and being even leaning on

the infinitude while being lovingly finite and drawing from the infinitude the power of love

which is infinite as well so that's the thing non-dualism that's a real non-dualism

is that is that what enlightenment is in your opinion Robert absolutely totally I'm sure

that's what it is but not as sure as I will be when I am that I don't think I don't

think because why because my wife goes to pick me out of the house and so I will be

sure I would not even it would be in the bar in the barter before the next five could do

definitely in the next five possibly in the barter possibly the moment of death at this time

you said in the book there's a whole period there's a whole there's a whole preparation

for liberation that the book invites us into with all these practices but in certain passages it

also says that liberation is inevitable as well so then does it make the ritual kind of pointless

but is liberation inevitable why is it inevitable yes because you have an infinite future

since you have infinite future you're likely finally to get bored and therefore you will do all

the right things and you will do inspired evolution and you will become enlightened inevitably

because this is so much time so anything is possible in infinity and then probably you might

discover at some point that well also infinite non enlightenment could also be possible since

anything is possible and in a way I've already been infinitely enlightened from this since it's

been beginningless so I already did that so I might as well try to exert myself to inspire to evolve

in an inspired way and follow Yama's teaching in the Katao Paranshan Yama Buddha teaching

and not Buddhist I didn't say Buddha teaching right in teaching in the other and in the

Paranshan follow that and and being really good to everyone and to myself and to everyone else

and that goes to the old English proverb Buddha is as Buddha does Buddha is as Buddha does

thank you so much really I thank you thank you thank you and I'm talking about a bonus to hear

about the Katao Paranshan that's maybe why it's brought to me I didn't I didn't remember what I

was really I just felt that given some of the research that I had done prior to coming into

the podcast I might just take a moment if that's okay we'll add this as a we call it an appendix

to the infosite here we go there was just some some key things we did discuss in the podcast

around Tibet and I just think it's it I would love to take a moment just to just to bring us into

what Robert shares about Tibet the things that left a deep impression on me while still starting

for this podcast was a Tibet like really the context of where you know all of this wisdom comes

on that Hindu Tibetan region and the characteristics of the landscape of Tibet as well and how that

informed this type of wisdom to emerge in the world where the way it does and the inner psycho note

not journey basically the people have been taking for hundreds of years I think in the West people

are starting to travel to South America explore their inner terrains you know stuff like this but

the word psycho not actually you know aptly describes work that's been going on for generations

in these spaces so that I found a really profound yeah just thinking about Tibet and I did feel

quite bad like in terms of yeah just this fact that China and Tibet were together and then the

because of trade routes with England anyway we went into this in the podcast and how you know

Tibet is now no longer identified as Tibet it was actually quite a spiritually advanced

civilization that chose to demilitarize yeah and then all but still now at this moment in time

it's like it's not identified as a country around the world because it doesn't have a military

wow okay so interesting yeah so I found that a really interesting point in research for this

podcast lots of lots of people have lost their lives fighting for freedom in Tibet it's like

not just something to have in your awareness it's something to be mindful of there's actually a lot

underneath what I've just said that that lives there so I found that really interesting and then the

other part of the when people come into the work around the Tibetan book of the dead and dying it's

it's really deep because there's this moment of death which is actually given like everybody's

going to live a life and the moment of death is given this significant priority for one to recognize

even if we don't contemplate death it was like the moment of death there's like a whole

parts to the book right but that moment of death is really important because contemplating that

I hate is the preparation that you're leading into that moment for enlightenment yeah because you

may or may not get enlightened during your life apparently talk to it but the theory is that at the

moment of death you will be liberated you will be enlightened and that's the true title of the book

it's the book of liberation or something to that effect it's all about liberation um boundedness

and unboundness boundedness and unboundedness life no life life no life so it's a really deep read like

please don't take anything that I'm covering here to even come close to like a tense or a

50 years if it's this is an ancient text yeah so please highly recommend you go read it um

Robert's translation I really enjoyed I really really enjoyed his translation which is obviously why

we got him on the podcast that moment then informing all the things about how to live a life

all the rituals and all those elements and all that sort of stuff then open themselves up in the

book it's also interesting because after that moment they talk about and I'm convinced it's

metaphorically but there are there are 12 days on which you spend on the other side and you

there are certain prayers and incantations you support your past over loved one with from this

side of the veil to the other side of the veil into a bardo yeah which okay um I should probably

unpack bardo it's a deep conversation as you guys can tell um but they're supporting their loved

ones and it maps through the entire journey of how to do that off from this side of this side of

this world into those that are on the other side it lays out a very deep map for the other side of

the veil right now your accuracy in accuracy I don't like it's fascinating all I can say is it's

fascinating highly recommend for those of you that are interested to read the book um I would love to

chat to you about as you can tell this is me opening it up to you guys it's really interesting to

consider how well they've mapped that out so the idea is into bed there was this place where people

were diving deep into their inner fears they're in a work looking at the inner psychonoid 20

prepare the preparation method working on the hard problem of consciousness as scientists call it

going inner in and inner in and in the west we've been going out and out and out and out and out

exploring out of space in the east it's like inner space and so they've gone into the point where

they've you know merged in such interesting ways that they can actually know when they're going

to return and which life they're going to return into yeah and then like they're returning to the

temples and which they came from is what I'm imagining in the book is implying right and so then

they they come back to these lives where they're near or in the same town or village or in the

of where they're going to be the next I don't know what the priest or whatever you want to call

that is Rinpoche I don't want to use the wrong word but yeah the next priest yeah and so

that he comes in kind of into a family that area they come they sink up and it's like actually

this is that person and you know he gets trained to be the person that he's was last lifetime

and is continuing the work it's continuing the work and it's not just one guy doing this in this one

place apparently yeah it's a society like this to bat so I just wanted to you know to bat this

death dying this whole exploration of consciousness it just seems like a little you know

diamond sitting on top of the Himalayas in some ways if you don't know it's just a visual that I've

got um for yeah just for this illumination through through through death and darkness a little bit

but they've been through a lot recently um and continue to do so so I don't know I just felt

compelled to bring that to your awareness I think there's a platform here to touch with

there's an opportunity to talk about some important things um so yeah there's that element there

and then my god the conversation around the other side there are one of the topics I wanted to

quickly mention with you guys is there are six bados and I've heard spiritual teachers talking

about bados um it was really beautifully translated to really understand between yeah like the

bado means between um and so it's it's an interesting word and it's an interesting translation

um there's a lot to meditate on just in that touch wood um if you're open to it so

there are three bados of life and there are three bados of death yes there are six bados all

together they sound like places they sound like states they sounds but it's interesting that

they're all the in between it's almost like these are places that you dock potentially whilst you're

on voyage I don't know um but they call them the bados yeah so they're the in between let's talk

about the ones of the life really quickly so you get an idea of where we're going but then you

know the desk obviously you can read the book but there's the bado of birth and life yeah um between

birth and being between death you're actually kind of in and in between now yeah um recently some

of the teachers in the podcast been calling earth or rel this is really interesting I think relman

bado is kind of maybe there's some synergy there I don't know I don't know just a just a contemplation

um yeah the bado of birth and life is one of the bados actually um then there's the bados

of dream yeah so you're in the bado of dream where every night you go to bed you release

into this mini death right and then you return you let go of your consciousness as he puts it

I think it's a really important thing because I'm actually noticing like night time routines and

rituals they actually carry a really deep importance when you start reflecting on this work yeah

just something to consider something practical to take home from this podcast is your night time

routine and ritual is actually how your consciousness is also resting while it's in your body you

know and that as I'm saying this to you I'm also saying it to me yeah and don't you think there's

like a whole thing in there I got family running around then there's the bado of meditation

yeah touchwood the bado of meditation is wrote here state between distraction and absorption

and between there yeah notice the forces for distraction and the no forces for absorption so

there's a whole awareness bada there those are three bados of life yeah awareness

and meditation dream birth and life and then there's the bado of dying yeah and there's a

bado of reality daramatta and then there's yeah another bado which if I read the title it'll lead

to a whole open can of worms and so that's a perfect little way to say go read the book

but yeah touchwood there's there's six bados and so there's six between and understanding that

these states cultivate inculcate different properties different abilities um and from within

there we can actually communicate across bados as well because they're just different states and how

they interplay into relate to each other robert's translation of the book is it's just amazing

it's absolutely amazing on that note one of the other things I wanted to say talk about an

advanced civilization yeah there's different types of spiritual texts with different type of

spiritual I don't know encryption I don't only want to call it that encryption or codes or keys or

whatever the type of text that this text is the Tibetan book of the dead yeah is of the type that

the reader transforms through the knowledge of the reading of the text so it's like just read it

once you will leave transformed and having read the text yeah pretty cool pretty cool touchwood

so there's a technology in the text I don't know how else to describe it um if you're open to

experiencing it I highly recommend you grab a copy um it's a yeah really really really really

really good book not for the faint of heart again all the disclaimers that we talked about earlier I

don't think everybody's interested in a topic like this I know for a fact when I launched this

episode death is a topic that I think is potentially one of the most important conversations we could

have um as you guys can tell um but it just it's won't perform on the channel and that's so

interesting to see that there's not an audience for this type of conversation um but I'd like to

think I'd like to think the the smallest subset of the audience that is listening to this conversation

it might just be a matter of breadth of a depth yeah some people just like to go deeper um and I

asked questions of Robert like how he feels about his death like you know why do so many people

fear death you know I want the heart of what how to work with that fear touch words so we do go to

some very practical useful places in this podcast um but yeah yeah I'm hoping that for those of you

that do tune in um and tune in all the way to the end cheese Louise I just want to take my hat off

and thank you all um for tuning in yeah it's good on you for the yeah I don't know if that sounds

ego pride in the spiritual ego but I guess in some form of spiritual warriors ship yeah there's

good to be some of this camaraderie for sure for sure yeah there's good to be that he says it in

inclusion inclusion is a whole thing also death being this final moment to meditate on

also shows up in each moment yeah it's like this whole body of work where each moment now

becomes this body of work where we're working in every moment and works probably the wrong word

but what there is some work in tell I'm sure on every moment to prepare for life after death in

some way this is the deep philosophical premise here in this book so hugely like this life is an

opportunity to prepare for the next because you're going to return no but then also the ability to

not return there's like a whole thing in there in fact he goes so deep this is part of the

bitterside that I'm reflecting on he talks about how Mochra itself is also a bit one-sided because then

you're not like connected Mochra was like like I'm free but I was like connection whoa dude there's a

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