#645 - Chris Robinson

Florida baby, I'll be in Jacksonville this week. We've got shows Friday and Saturday. That's March 13th and 14th one on Friday and two on Saturday evening.

A few tickets are still available at theovon.com slash T O U R practice and preparing for my Netflix special. So grateful to be down there in the great state of Florida.

Today's guest is a musician. He's a founder of the legendary rock band The Black Crows. He has a new album called a pound of feathers that comes out March 13th.

I cannot even believe today's guest is Mr. Chris Robinson.

And I like I don't mind being to crepe it a little bit. You know what I mean? Like I've never it's kind of artsy. It's a little bit Tim Burton-esque.

Oh, I'm kind of proud that I've that I've survived 59 winters. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, I can imagine with your with your life, I bet. Did you feel like when you were young, like I'm never going to live long and then as you got know as you've grown,

you're like, book, I guess I'm I don't you know what I it's so funny because I'm not afraid of the theme at all. And of course, I never really I mean, no, I didn't really I've never really thought about it.

I adhere to you know, the French artist young cocktail, you know, he was. He's very if you ever seen the original movie Beauty and the Beast. Yeah.

Yeah. The black and white one with the hand. He directed that film. He was a French artist, intellectual, young cocktail.

Yeah, a very important figure in the 20th century and in art. And I subscribed to something that he said. And he said, living as a horizontal fall.

So when I read that about 35, 36 years ago, I was like, that's it. I mean, what else do you need to know? I was like, perfect, philosophic.

Yeah, that's a line. Sometimes I get so jealous when you hear somebody that said something or that wrote something, you know, not jealous, but also I guess I used to get more jealous.

Now I think I just get grateful that I got to hear it or read it. Of course, of course, that's what it's all about.

I mean, there's, there's a million things to inspire, you know, and I think I think it's really sad if you get to a point.

And it could be anything. It could just whatever. I have a lot of varied interests, you know what I mean?

So I'm constantly like interested in stuff and the world is just information, you know what I mean?

Because I'm dyslexic as well, I just process it in a different way, but it's, that's why I've been in a fucking rock band my whole life.

That's what it'll lead you there, you saying?

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, yeah, if your brain is just freaking doing donuts or whatever, every artist I know, yeah, it's like, that's why we found our way to this.

And the success part or whatever, that kind of aspect of it is just whatever, you know what I mean?

That's what either happens or doesn't happen.

Yeah, I read somewhere that you, like you have like a, I don't know if it's a fascination, but like about the first line of a song or a,

like even whenever you mention that thing about Mr. Cocktoe, it made me think about that.

Like how the first line is so important?

Yeah, it's well for, it's funny that I did say that.

I've said that because, you know, lyrics are the writing songs was the first thing I thought I could do.

You know what I mean?

So I was like, that's what I was into.

Yeah.

That was my interest poetry and write, you know, that was something that I felt.

I had, maybe I could get into this.

Was it a music first?

Like you were just thinking of poetry?

And they're just, poetry first, you know what I mean?

Because the music part came a little later when I was kind of like fuck, you know,

like we're going to see like hardcore bands in Atlanta in the early 80s,

like punk rock, matinee shows and stuff.

Because that's the shit we could go see.

Because I wasn't really interested in my MTV and kind of those same stuff.

We were just different, my brother too.

That kind of led to the whole world of, oh, there's like all this other shit going on,

but it's not on TV or it's not on the radio.

You have to really dig and find it.

And then you see some other kid in like a fucking circle jerk's teacher or something.

And you're like, let's go talk to that guy.

What's going on there?

Yeah.

Which the world is still the same way.

I think you meet the people you're supposed to meet and has nothing to do with technology.

If you're out in the world traveling around.

Yeah, that's a good point actually.

I think you come across.

You meet fucking people because you guys are people are on a certain wavelength.

Yeah, there's a real human wavelength that's still happening in the universe,

even though so many of us are sidelined on our devices though.

It's almost like you're on the sidelines of your own devices.

It's almost as if it's my design too.

Oh yeah.

I don't really wander into those realms so much.

I'm too busy with Mr. Cocktail.

Just kidding.

Do you have like one type red that you once I read that you said that I was like,

Oh, yeah, I was trying to think of on the first line thing.

Well, that dictates the.

Yeah, we're like, OK, if that first thing to me is something like I could in a stupid visualization

open up a page and see it.

And then if that would be something that if I could capture something in imagination

or feeling or where those two things come together in the first few words of the song.

Yeah.

That's, you know, and I find my, I like that with songs too.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

I'm not going to wait till the third verse for some good words.

Yeah.

To tickle you a little.

Yeah.

Give it to it.

Yeah, you want to tickle in my front.

Like, uh, what's a Johnny, that Johnny, I heard myself.

Yeah.

That one.

The trail resonance.

Yes.

And just at the, they just went to see Nineish nails last night.

Actually, he was sending me videos.

They were here last night.

No, they were in New Orleans, but New Orleans.

Oh, New Orleans.

Oh, that's right.

That's right.

Wow, I saw that my, my wife and I went to see them in Brooklyn over the summer.

It was like a crazy week of like fucking gigs because we got there and corn and system

of a downer playing.

So we went to that.

And I've never seen shit like that.

And that was fucking amazing.

We planned that.

Which was he playing?

Yeah.

But that was the gig where a guy was like jerking off in the stands like in Brooklyn.

And now this is it at the stadium.

What's it called?

MetLife Stadium.

Oh, yeah.

It was all over the internet.

There's a guy that's jerking off.

And there he is.

That's a trap beat.

Well, that's, and a guy, you know, wait, huh?

He's really upset at that point of the.

But a guy runs away like smacks him.

I was at that gig, but I was on the floor.

So I had nothing to do.

And we were down there in the recipe.

Maybe he was looking at me right there.

You never know.

Oh, that's just serving a little bit of body butter.

That's just making his own bending machine.

I mean, look, this guy's had enough.

But to run up and hit a guy who's jerking off is insane.

Unless maybe he's a, that's why he wanted.

He couldn't really get it together.

Unless he got punched in the back of the skull.

Maybe that's his plan.

Oh, wow, this guy's really onto something.

Wow.

I'm so glad I can get off easier than that.

I was at that show.

I was at nine-inch nails.

And then we went to Oasis.

Oh, amazing, huh?

Yeah, it was a great week.

But I tell you, nine-inch nails was unbelievably good show.

I mean, it was so theatrical, so visual.

It was, it was, there was also like a real human part too.

I mean, I was just so impressed.

Yeah, I heard the effects on this tour.

It's supposed to be pretty amazing.

Did it just kick off?

No, this is the second half of it, right?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, they did half of it last year.

Yeah, I haven't got to talk to my friend.

He seemed like four videos last night though, so it's pretty cool.

Just have like moments from our childhood, you know, that you should just like,

and for like 30 seconds each time I was like back in these moments where you're like

feeling something, you know?

Yeah.

Well, I've got, that's, I see some concerts now are less phone-driven than they used to be.

Like people want to be there more.

I think so.

I think you're right.

And I think it's funny when you see like, when it's juxtaposed with like the,

if you see some footage from like concerts before phones and everyone is focused on the same

fucking thing.

And it's really, you know, about some other sort of interaction.

Yeah, and you'd have a, you don't must have a like a, it was like you were riding a wave

during a concert like you find somebody that had a beer.

Emotional.

Yeah.

And you connect with a girl, but she disappears.

And then you're like, oh, wait, I'm here with my wife.

And then that's they're like concerts were everything.

I mean, they were, it was a different thing.

I mean, they can still have magical moments.

You know, people can still be involved.

Yeah.

But your friend would go off to get like, and then somebody would go off to get beverages.

And you would never see like that person.

Yeah.

They were gone.

Never saw them since.

Oh, dude, dude, there was just something about experiences like that.

There was something about like, like, I always feel like the best music was during my childhood.

But I don't know if that stunts my appreciation for music as an adult.

You know what it is?

I don't think it's about it being the best music.

I think my wife and I were talking about this because she's like an anthropologist.

When, like, when she sees like some teenagers like sitting on the sidewalk smoking cigarette,

she's like, we need to study them.

Look at them.

This has been going on forever, you know?

But I think like, let's, you know, I'll do the drawings.

But I think what it is, and we talk about it, is when you're a teenager or you're an adolescent,

you're so alive in a different way for the first time from the childhood alive to like this.

Oh, this, now my, the way the world feels to me is going to be something different.

And when that music comes, it's like fucking imprinted on like this fresh.

You know what I mean?

There's no, no one is swollen at that age.

Yeah.

Before that, you're kind of pulp, and this is like the first time you're piece of it.

But it makes sense.

You know what I mean?

Because I'm not, I feel that, I mean, I'm lucky that I'm not nostalgic.

I don't really care about nostalgic.

Oh, you don't get into that.

It doesn't make me, things are the way they are when they're happening.

And yes, there could be an aspect of something like, oh, I remember when I first heard that record.

But I don't listen to like a record like, I don't know, it could be anything.

Um, even if it was from the 80, I don't know, something like, let's active.

There's a band from North Carolina, I'm a cheerster.

Let's active.

Yeah.

Loved, let's act.

Ring them up.

I want to see them.

Yeah.

And, but if I hear that, I'd like, I'm not back in my, my mom and dad's house.

I'm like, oh, listen, how cool like a guitar sound.

You know, music is always made it alive.

The room, wherever I am.

Well, does it?

Yeah, it's funny because a lot of music, I think I immediately go back to place.

I'm like a nostalgia junkie.

I'm like this.

I'm like a romanticist.

Like, let's go back in time kind of guy.

And I think I miss out on probably a lot of like life and present moments sometimes like

that.

But, um, I don't know if I'm up that upset about it.

Maybe that's just who I am on this trip.

You know, I mean, I don't think that's necessarily, yeah.

I mean, I, I mean, that's also just dreaming.

Yeah, maybe it is.

And I loved, I just love, like, I think I just loved some of the, I mean, are you kidding?

If I could like, if I could dress like a, you know, 17th century French aristocrat, I

would, you know, I'd walk around with the wig, the, like, pants and I would like, you

know, oh, yeah.

And I would feel great about, I mean, I would feel great about it.

That's a little, yeah.

But if they had chainmail, like, if you showed up to like say there was going to be people

like, there might be beef at this thing.

Yeah.

I mean, I think there was kind of always beef at the point.

Yeah.

So something that should have been chainmail was just like a dude, like who showed up with

it.

The richest, most powerful people are the most unhinged, obviously.

They're like, run him through, run him through.

I think we're there now, dude.

I don't think it's ever been any different.

Yeah.

I mean, I, I, I, I also think the resistance is always there.

Yeah.

I also, you know what I mean?

I also think the moral compass will always show the way.

So what is right and what is wrong?

And that doesn't have anything to do.

That's just a fundamental, we know what's right and wrong.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

And you believe that.

Yeah.

I do because I've seen it happen.

I mean, by the way, sometimes it doesn't come without a full on struggle.

Yeah.

Cause I've been worried about that a lot recently.

I'm like, you have to like, like, we got to believe that morality wins.

You know, somehow.

Yeah.

No, but, but, but again, these things are in a constant sort of struggle that keep going

and going.

I mean, forever, I mean, I know we like to think that I know it's all nail.

Yeah.

It's like all our life.

That life was, you know, there was Victorian people and then Crocs and airports.

You know what I mean?

But there's some other shit that happened in between your comfort and, you know, robber

barons or whatever.

But there is a, there is a constant line in it.

You know what I mean?

And so I don't know.

What did they say?

What's that Clint Eastwood movie where the grit?

No, it's one of, but it's like a mid-70s one.

But the guy who's like, his plays like the Native American guy, he, when they're talking

about the troubles, he goes, we must endeavor to persevere.

And ever since I was a kid, I was like, yeah, oh, it's the outlaw Jesse Wales.

That's the one.

Oh, I've heard of that.

I've never seen it.

Oh, it's great.

Is it?

Yeah.

I'm up to check that out, man.

The outlaw Jesse, well, Josie Wales.

Josie Wales.

Yeah.

And they just remade it, I think, actually.

No, don't do it.

I know.

Rarely of the, rarely have they done it well.

It's weird.

Why?

Leave it alone.

Just come up with something else.

I think it's just to get people that saw it once with nostalgia to go get them to, hey,

some people one more time and just, you know, it's not going to be that good, but there's

a party that's going to connect to you.

I don't really love musicals, but I love West Side Story.

Yeah.

I like newsies.

I was dead, you know?

Yeah.

And as a lyricist, one of the greatest lyrics of all time is in the officer Krumpki song

when the kid goes, I'm depraved on a count of, I'm deprived.

And I was like, that's like fucking Bob Dylan.

I'm depraved on a count of, I'm deprived.

I mean, it is one of the great lyrics of all time.

But then Steve Spielberg remakes West Side Story.

I don't get it.

I want, I mean, he didn't call me.

He didn't ask my, what?

Your opinion, but sure.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm sure, you know, that Steve, he's going to do what he wants to do.

Yeah, man.

Yeah.

I wonder if I had made something wonderful, would I try and remake it later on?

Like, I wonder what my desire would be in that.

I mean, that, I don't, yeah, I wouldn't, I don't understand.

Is there times like that in your career where you've written like music that you really

thought was great or that had commercial successes or something?

And then later, have you ever like been like, I need to try and get myself back into that

space to write music like that again, instead of trying to be like, I'm writing music from,

from where I'm at?

No.

Does it make sense?

Yeah, I hear you, but I'm not, I've, I've always found it to be, I don't know.

I've always found it to be the most sort of fulfilling just to be in the moment, you know?

Which is difficult, too, because, you know, it's hard, you know, it's hard to, I, it's

hard to remain in the dream place sometimes.

It's not hard for me, it's hard for everyone else, because you have to deal.

You know, I'm a husband, I have kids, you know, I pets, I have pets so demanding, there's

so much pressure from the pets, but the reality is, I can't fully remove myself from the

dream place or the muse or whatever you want to call it, because I, I do understand that

it's a very jealous entity and it will leave you.

If you're not, it has to have its proper place.

What does your saying?

The muse.

You know what I mean?

It's like Quest for Fire, you know, that movie, everything, Quest for Fire, dude, we have

to have a movie night.

I mean, you're missing a lot of Quest for Fire.

I've seen, whoa, the best, the best, I look like I'm related to one of those people.

We all are.

We all are.

There we go.

I've seen, I think the first movie I ever saw was either like Jason Voorhees, like the

killer guy at the lake, and then there was the movie, it was the guy, where the guy, the

older guy, he has the Coke bottle and he throws in an Africa or whatever.

The God's must be crazy.

Yes.

Okay.

That's a pretty, and Cheech and Chong, that was an early one too, that was like still kind

of popping.

Oh, look at this guy.

My first movie, I remember watching my parents let me stay up and watch Lord of the

Flies.

Fuck yeah.

God.

Nothing could be wrong with that.

That kind of fit, you know?

It's like cool.

You feel like this, and I did, I fucking did.

That's crazy bro.

Yeah, that's great dude.

Just like early influence and stuff, I love that kind of stuff.

But the first movie I remember, I always saw Patton with George C. Scott in the drive-unmovie

theater in my parents' car.

No, with them.

Do you know that film?

You know, because that music, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh.

I've seen this.

I've never seen the film.

It's good too.

Oh my God.

It's epic.

Like psycho-general Patton.

Dude.

I saw, oh.

Psycho-George C. Scott doing it.

I mean, he's really.

I got a tap in then.

Yeah, I'm just kind of out of touch with some films.

I did just, I started reading All's Quiet on the Western Front last night though.

Amazing.

And the original, both of the films, the original one is unbelievably good.

If you've ever, you should watch it.

That's the one that they remade that was like on Netflix or something.

That was great.

But that's the original one.

The remake is good.

The remake was fantastic.

Watch the original one first though.

Okay.

So yourself short.

Okay.

Go to the source.

Yeah.

But now here's the incredible.

It's incredible.

Here's a situation where they made another one and it was good.

But I guess it's not like a part two though.

No.

And you're right.

That is it.

That is it.

They did a good job.

I loved it.

I loved the modern one.

But the original one is, to me, holds like the, the real magic of the thing.

Okay.

I did see the jury.

What's that movie?

The jury.

It's like 12 man.

It's like 12 angry man.

Yes.

It's a big one.

Louis CK told me to watch it.

He was right, dude.

It's great.

Yeah.

I appreciate it.

I appreciate it.

I appreciate the recommendations.

I don't get a ton.

Like I'm lucky because I'm old enough that when, you know, I grew up in Atlanta, we had

three channels and then we had channel 36 or whatever and TBS and they played fucking

movies.

Yeah.

There's off to Turner Classic Movies or whatever.

But when, when there wasn't that, there was, there's not that much content, you know,

so there wasn't much at all.

Beast Master.

When that came on on TBS, dude, yeah, every master that got those ferrets, that's right.

The ferrets.

Then for this, dude, that was crazy.

Some white guy from WWF tickling a couple of pets, dude, I was like, what is going on

here?

All those fantasy movies are really strange.

Dude, I loved the times like that.

We were riding our bikes to get the videos at the video store and they had like those

wild west doors on like the titty area, you know, those.

I'm a product of like the early 80s, you know, VHS boom and my parents had moved.

They had made the regretful decision to move to the suburbs.

It's the worst blow in life, you know what I mean?

And if you move from the city to the suburbs.

Well, we had moved to Charlotte and then when we moved back, yeah, we were in town and

then we moved to the suburbs.

But my parents also, this is at the ripe time of them really being too disinterested in

my life to like edit what I was doing.

So it was the great time at these stores of like the midnight movies and European movies.

You know what I mean?

And I had the fucking pick of whatever weird shit we wanted to watch.

Like, I remember my dad seeing us watching a racer head back and he was just like, what,

why are you doing this to yourself?

What is wrong with you?

I'm like, Dad, we would watch it soon.

We would watch David Lynch is the elephant man like, oh, yes, all the time.

You know what I mean?

That's not a, that's not a lark.

Yeah, dude, this isn't a one time like this.

We would like, play it again.

You know what I mean?

What the fuck?

Were you like an angry child like, where do you, because like music usually comes from

like some feeling of youth, I feel like like a lot of that blast off energy does like

real music, like real like, you know, like whether you're going to become a musician or

like an anarchist or a peeping Tom, that shit comes out of your childhood, you know?

Do you feel like that?

Crime and art?

Yes.

Yes.

Fuck yeah.

Vandalism and art.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There was the bad kid part of it.

And I think that's always been associated with rock and roll at least in our case, because

we just gravitated toward it.

That was our shit.

Like, we were into music.

So now we're in a band and let's go, how do we get into grown up club to play?

You know, we were kids.

You know, how do we get in there?

It's like, well, get, write some songs, you know, get better and get up there and do

something.

And, but it was, yeah, always the bad.

Will your brother the same?

I know because he's not a bad kid.

I mean, he kind of is bad.

And he was down for vandalism and shit too, but he's not as bad down for vandalism.

That has to be going his heads to wonder if he ever passes down for vandalism and shit.

Occasionally.

I'm sorry to admit that, you know, it gets like more, you're going to need another stone.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, dude, that'd be great.

Two stones.

Because you're just, cause yeah, there's a little more to tell about him.

People don't get buried anymore though.

Yeah.

Did you see that stat that like, they're like, where are all the bodies going?

Yeah.

Well, I mean, they're throwing them in Lake Lanier or something.

I don't know.

Yeah.

Where are all the ashes?

I want to take me up to the top of Stone Mountain.

I don't want you to throw my ashes all over those Confederate fuckers up there.

All right.

One of my friends works at TSA.

He said that I was like, what's some of the things that have been left in the thing?

Ashes.

He said four times they've had people that left somebody's ashes and never came back

to get them.

Where's Uncle Larry?

Oh, I, he's not a layover.

Yeah, tell me.

What happened?

I asked you to go pick up your uncle racist here.

Your racist uncle sets ashes.

What are you doing?

Fucking left him on the plane.

Bok, they're in Salt Lake City.

Yeah.

God.

But that's wild, bro, that it ends up like that.

Like I came one line probably like as a human and maybe just like my brother

listening to stuff like DO, G-N-R, Black Cros, one of the early albums that he had.

You know, watching him like move his body, our family could never dance well.

And he would kind of like, and we shared a room, you know?

And someone's he would set his weights down and fucking put it on and make me watch him

kind of, which was the first time he and I ever like kind of a man, I'm going to put

my weights down and I'm going to boogie a little bit.

Are you cool with that?

That's never happened to me.

It was kind of crazy, but it was like, no, I want, this is more of my, I'm going to

take down this badminton set that we're going to have some canopies and then you're going

to all watch me dance.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So yeah, a little different.

Yeah.

I didn't lift weights.

Yeah, he just like, yeah, but that was like when I first kind of came on with music and

like watching it through my brother and it's funny.

That was the way a lot of people got, you know, I didn't, I wouldn't have known about like,

my dad, my dad had like Johnny guitar Watson records and Jimmy Reed records and Bob Dylan

writing a lot of Moe's Allison and all sorts of eclectic stuff, but more kind of stuff.

But my neighbor up the street, his older brother, he had like all the arosmith records

and chits.

So we would like, and his mom was a dance teacher.

So she had a stereo with this big loud speaker on it and we would get down there and

fucking, that's where I was like, oh, I like arosmith, you know, dude, yeah, acdc, because

that's the time you're around the neighborhood pool, you know, so you don't have to pool

and be like, back and black when that shit came out, it was on the radio every five minutes.

You know what I mean?

And you were like, damn, dude, you remember when the radio was like this omen and if it

served to your song, it was just, it felt like, okay, no, it gone off just for you.

It was exciting.

Oh, and we all had it in common.

That was one thing too.

That was one thing that I liked about and you think all the records were good, but it

was really just a promo guy getting like hookers and like stanks and lobsters to the

radio program direction.

And we're like, fucking play this record, you'll get a BJ out of this.

See that?

I mean, like, all right.

I fucking love this record.

Oh, dude.

These guys are like, back with Turner overdrive, but even better, you know, like what?

And they have such a mix of ones.

And you like, if you like BTO, you're going to fucking love these guys.

Woo.

Yeah, dude.

Well, it's just so many of those radio stations.

I ordered this tour manager one time for a guy for a musician and we would go to this

guy.

Josh Kelly, actually, he's out of Georgia as well.

He's from Augusta, Georgia.

His brother Charles Kelly played with Lady Annabelle and, but we would, I was his tour manager.

So we would just go all around to these radio stations and I'd have to get him like doughnuts

and stuff in the morning and coffee.

But you're right.

They'd be like, at 11 o'clock today, we're having lobsters like it's like listening,

listening for lobster and you'd have like just some muppets show off.

Snow tires.

You know what?

When the black crows came out, I bought a lot of snow tires.

I didn't know I was buying them till later in life when I show what you paid for because

you're the only fucking band selling like six million records.

You're like, who's got a new set of snow tires at WWE, whatever in Bangor, Maine?

You know what I mean?

Like, oh, they fucking played.

She talks angels 150 times last week.

You know what I mean?

Dude, that was, yeah, that's when it was more like a music mafia kind of thing.

Don't get me wrong.

A lot of good, a good song is a good song.

Yeah.

And there's a reason that those, you know what I mean?

That those bands are those bands.

You ever had come out at a 7-Eleven or something and somebody had cracked your windshield

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Yeah.

I think I'm just like going down some of that memory row to those times, you know, um, was

your brought where you're like, because it's God, I feel like it'd be hard to do something

with your brother, dude, but also kind of special you can if you really, I mean, it took us

a long time to get to the how special it is for us.

Who's a who's a better brother, do you think?

Um, well, obviously me.

I mean, I wouldn't, it doesn't even matter who's right or wrong.

It's me.

Of course.

I mean, that one of ridiculous questions, I mean, I'm older, I'm older, I'm Sagittarian,

I'm the lead singer.

It's me.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I think way.

I think the things you really admire about him, like my brother, I think is way better

than me.

Yeah.

I don't like that.

But the things I admire about him are the same things that like ultimately I like, you

know, he's a, he's a sort of amazing heart inside of him.

And he's a really genuinely sweet person.

He's very not, you know what I mean?

The other things I love about him, he's, and again, you know what I mean, when things

are going, when you're kids and all of a sudden you're in a local band and in six months

later, you're selling millions of records and everything's different.

Everything has changed.

The pressure's on now, you know, blah, blah, blah.

I always knew my brother was talented.

I chose to, you know, we've, we were writing these songs together.

We've always been the rich and I's composition are the, is the engine for whatever the black

crows are.

It's been that way since we, before it was anything.

But now I can, especially because, you know, we made this last record in rich plays all

the bass and all the guitars and I'm like, dude, I'm fucking sat in the studio with him.

Since the first time I went to studios in 1987 or something, I've seen him do amazing

things, you know, like beautiful music, inspired dynamic things.

But now I see like, oh, wow, I really see it more than ever because I've, my perspective

of what he is is entainted by any of my bullshit, whether that's my anger, resentment, ego,

shit, whatever.

Oh, yeah.

He goes so dangerous.

And I could see it really now so much clearer that it's like a, and by the way, when

I say that, we live in a world, throw a, you're in Nashville, throw a rock, hit a great

guitar player.

You know what I mean?

There's so many talented people, so many talented musicians.

And, and that's just the way it is, you know, but I really see my brother, I see his uniqueness

and I see how special he really is in his, in, in that world of guitarist.

And I've gotten to play with some of the best music, you know what I mean?

Yeah, no, that's cool.

That's cool to hear.

So lucky.

That's a nice, that's a nice thought.

That's a nice compliment, too, I think.

If you ask Gretchen about me, he'd say, yeah, he's all right, he's all right.

He's pretty good.

Did, how, how tough was it during some times, like was there ever a part where you guys

were like, not only are we not going to keep playing, I mean, I know you guys have

storied throughout the years.

It's been like, you know, I'm sure like with any brothers or with any bands or it's

like things go apart, things come back together.

But was there ever a part where you like, shit, we might not even be brothers after this,

you know?

Uh, yeah.

I mean, like 2013 was like the last black crossing before we, and yeah, um, I mean,

we went a long time without seven years without speaking.

No way.

Um, and would you have certain feeling sometimes like you wanted to talk to him or to sometimes

did that stuff get clouded by like resentment and stuff?

Cause I, you know, personally, it was also kind of important to take the fucking kettle

off the flame a little bit because sometimes those things and your work and your relationship,

you know, and these, all of it was just, to me, like a kettle on the stove just, no

one's going, no one's going to flip the thing so it stops like, um, but I think he needed

that too.

So it wasn't, I mean, we, I was, I was, yeah, whatever.

I was ugly and mean, I lashed out when I shouldn't have, I should have reached out.

Hmm.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, dude.

I've held resentments that were only like, and I was yelling when thinking about him,

someone weren't even real.

That's the crazy.

Of course.

Of course.

Of course.

That's the crazy.

You think people give a fuck and they don't, you know, I mean about whatever you're doing

sometimes.

Oh.

I mean, I've been, I've been lucky too to just have whatever, you know, um, to keep

it moving.

Yeah.

It sounds like that.

And I don't, I really don't like to, it's exactly, you know, I've tried to, for

better or for worse, not to be a liar in my life because the idea of telling someone

aligned and having to remember what the fuck you said that wasn't the real thing that

happened or however it happened to you or, you know, everyone's truth is their own

thing or whatever.

But yeah.

But you know what I mean?

They would be the same thing.

Anything kind of fake or whatever.

I'd rather, I'm cool, you know, I, not everybody has to think I'm great, you know, I got,

but me and also I don't have to act a certain way to pretend that that's something that is,

yeah.

Oh, it's just not normal.

It's just not, you know what I mean?

Oh, yeah.

Well, a lot.

I was just thinking of this as you were saying it, dude.

I was like, you cut your head kind of terms into like, to like a library.

I know that's kind of like a dumb play on words, but it's like, now I have to go back

in the show.

You're out what the fuck?

I mean, that would be exhausting.

Oh, dude.

That was a lot of like, you know, like, I think I was probably lying to survive.

I don't even know what I was doing.

Like for, I think for certain years, my child, I was like, I don't even know what's going

on.

But like, I'm still alive.

I'm going to keep going.

And then one day you start to kind of get a little bit better perspective of yourself.

And things start to adjust a little bit.

Was it, was your band always going to be the Black Crosse, was there ever anything else

was going to be?

I know it had different names before that.

Well, we were missed a band called Mr. Crosse Garden in Atlanta.

Yeah.

Was it ever going to be a different animal though?

It was always Crosse.

Yeah.

I mean, maybe we, I don't really, yeah, we didn't want to, we liked being cut.

People just referred to your band and the like, those guys are in the Crosse or whatever.

Right.

So we, I mean, I don't know, we liked that.

That's why we kept the E in the name because Mr. Crow was the guy's name in this book,

Mr. Crosse Garden.

That this girl had in her dorm at the University of Georgia and she showed it to me and that's

just the way it was.

Oh, yeah.

Cool.

It's like psychedelic and like kind of 60s and we liked that aesthetic and, but yeah,

by the time, you know, I remember we drove of, there's a place called Rome, Georgia.

Oh, yeah.

I've heard of it.

I think I did a show actually.

Oh, no, maybe I didn't.

I've heard of it.

Yeah.

It's North.

It's kind of east of Atlanta, I think.

There used to be, I don't know if it's still there, a boarding school called Darlington or

whatever.

My dad went there and my brother went to boarding school there, which is funny.

And there was a little club there and we had a gig and we drove up there and we had made

our first album and we drove up there and I remember, were we all driving you remember?

A van, like we had a van, starting my dad's van or something.

He let us use.

Fuck yeah, dad.

We drove up there way to go.

Big stand.

And we said, by the time we fucking roll in the park, we're like, we're the black

crows.

Everybody hip to that.

Like, this is what it is.

We're the black crows.

That's what we are.

We go in and we fucking set up our shit.

We do soundcheck and we're playing jealous again, twice as hard like songs that would

later, you know, that record.

Yeah.

For sure.

The band we get off stage.

There's a bar down the street.

We're going to go have a couple drinks.

The band that is opening for us was like a dad and like his daughter and they're like

cousin or some family shit.

And they were like, they set up and we were like, all right, like weird.

So we come back, we're the black crows.

We walk in the club.

There's the only people there are the dad, the daughter and the cousin and the band.

And they're sitting at a table eating subway sandwiches and I'm like, we're the black

crows.

And we played jealous again and they're just like eating their sandwiches.

They're like, three people, four people, I was like, oh, fucking hell, this isn't going

well.

And it was at a school?

No, it was at a club.

Yeah, but just somehow they put these people on, you know, the family on the bill.

The only way this story could be better is if they had been a Christian group.

Oh, dude, I can only hope one time there was a guy that was kind of hitting me up.

I don't know if he was a pedophile and he thought I was a young man.

Let's hope.

He won.

Oh, for sure dude.

Because luckily, I look, he needed something to do in his older years, but maybe he thought

I was young enough because a lot of times pedophiles are like, I'm so bored.

It's time to commit a crime against all nature, but I'm just saying that like because

sometimes pedophiles will drive by and you'll be like, no, I'm 40, you know, like they

just don't, you know, I'm saying someone don't have good glasses.

It's all types of things.

It's eye wear, it's healthcare.

It's a lot of stuff, but the guy's not wearing his prescription.

He's wearing the glasses with the big nose because he's on the sex offenders registry.

He doesn't want anyone to recognize that.

Well, I miss the old pedophile that at least had like the peeping Tom, like the ladder hanging

out of the back of the truck.

The old pedophile was your family like, don't sit on Uncle Oscar's lap.

You know what I mean?

They're like, why would they invite the pedophile uncle?

He's like, kids want some quarters?

Like, no, we, no, you know, we want justice for your victims.

He's like, you fucking sick fuck.

That's what we want.

He's like, I got to roll the quarters into the middle of my pants.

You're like, that's crazy.

Who wants to dig for loose change?

Fuck, you know.

But dude, those are the back when they had pedophiles.

It was just a different time.

He now they have them, but now they're like rich people are doing it.

Dude, I was thinking the other day, there's a famous character.

It could be on sunny and share or mod or anything.

The guy who runs over in a coat and like, that's a character on movies and TV shows.

He'd have a hat on and he'd run over there.

That's a guy.

Yeah.

It was a thing that was on you just saw it as a kid on TV.

I thought, hey, there's that guy as if he was a colorful neighborhood character.

Yeah.

Like a dude selling it.

It's fucking horrible.

Yeah.

By the way, that's a, that's a flasher bizarre raincoat people, which is a great band name.

Which also, yeah, we're flasher bizarre raincoat people.

You're going to love us.

I mean, it's really love.

Well, I'll tell you this, I remember one time my uncle was in Atlanta and I didn't really

know him.

It was like a girl.

My dad had like a daughter from his first marriage.

He dropped him off over there.

She had an Italian husband who was like, send me out of work, kind of had an advertising

agency and played mariachi music at night, right?

So he takes me to the wine shop or whatever because I think he wanted to go talk to a woman

so he just dropped me off in there for a little while.

A flasher comes up, a lady goes.

I remember this.

He's like, have you seen my kitty?

And I was, I'm thinking like, that was probably 12 maybe and I'm like, I'm in this store

when I was looking at these big bottles, they had some big bottles of wine and I was thinking

like, I don't know.

I don't think so.

And then she just showed her body like that, the front of her body or, you know, cooter

and breasts or whatever.

And I didn't know what had happened, really.

I didn't know if I was in trouble.

Cooter and breasts.

That's the new pub everyone's going to in that, it's right over by Donuts and Dildos.

Yeah.

There's a father in the office.

We don't go there anymore.

There's a father in the office.

They're eating subway right now.

You pull up.

But, but that was a crazy time when I saw a flash in the liquor store in the liquor store.

Good.

How old were you?

That's probably 12 maybe.

That's the perfect place for you to be when you're 12.

Yeah.

Well, why don't you just wander around the, why don't you wander around the French

whites over there?

Yes.

Those are Bordeaux.

Yeah.

That's a, we if we say a few.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But, you know, if you don't like the pumae, it's nice as well.

I'll be back in an hour and a half.

Have some salted peanuts.

Yeah.

But, fuck, that was the days when any other, any building that was open was kind of a babysitter,

you know?

Yeah.

Parents would just drop you off for like significant people in your life.

Through the day my parents realized like they could split for the weekend and like,

Rich and I probably wouldn't die.

They were gone.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, here, they would leave put like, this is an emergency $20 bill.

Yeah.

And then it would be like, there's two gallons of ice cream and stacoms in the fridge.

Yeah.

And then these things called stacoms and they were like, bring them up.

Those bitches were nasty.

Yeah.

Thin.

Thin slices of some sort of stacom.

Every time you ate them, a dolphin died somewhere.

By the way, I mean, hey, post Malone, you should get stacom on your face.

That was like cool.

You know what I mean?

Who ever, who's got face tattoos?

Jelly roll, get the fucking stacom.

Oh, he would definitely be good for stacom.

Yeah.

Slice to get the whole thing.

You should get stacom, not anymore, you know, since he lost so much weight.

Stacom.

No stacom.

No thanks.

Dude, that's rockin, bro.

At least on your neck or something, stacoms.

Did you, oh, stacoms, yeah, it is more of a neck thing than a face thing.

I think we're getting in that place where people are going to start ridding out their body

spaces for exactly for tattoos.

Just people to survive.

We're already at the place where, you know, a lot of people are selling their bodies

on only fans and over their phones and stuff like that.

So it's definitely getting to unique spots.

What do you mean?

They're selling their bodies.

Just like selling sexual videos and stuff.

Oh, okay.

I guess that's not their bodies, really, you know?

I mean, it's their souls, but whatever.

Yeah.

I mean, actually, it might be more, it might be more souls.

It might be whatever it is the oldest profession in the world.

I agree.

And look, I've supported it.

I'm not, you know, no big deal.

I mean, to you, I'm glad you have a healthy relationship with it after the kiddie lady

at the liquor store when you were 12.

That's traumatic.

I still try as hard as I can to remember what she looked like and I can't exactly.

I can remember the outline of her, but I can't remember like the in line.

And that's what I think I wanted to be.

I didn't see her, but if I close my eyes, I see the green lady from Star Trek.

Ooh, bring her up.

I don't remember her exactly but I, but I mean, I know it's your, there she is.

It's her, right?

Yeah, it was her.

It was her, dude.

Sorry.

God, dude.

I don't know.

I don't remember that.

I'm trying to think of what else.

Kids today, they have everything at their fingertips.

So we were kids.

You had to wait till the green lady episode of Star Trek came on, which is probably only

once or twice a year.

Yeah.

Well, you had to play back a movie, to play back a movie, like, and try to pause it right

at the spot where there's a part of a tit or whatever.

Yeah.

I mean, it was, you know.

And you had to listen so hard for somebody coming in the front door, because there's

only one TV in the living room.

You didn't have your own TV in your room to play touch your body, too, or whatever.

Yeah.

Put your weights down and touch your body and dance for your brother or myself or whoever.

Once we got a mirror in my room, he didn't need me anymore.

That was a crazy part.

That's the worst.

It was, it was the wildest, dude.

And we had a lady.

It's good to know.

That's a good, you know, all of it is adding up, you know, the rejection of that deep wound.

Oh, dude.

And a beaver lady, kidney lady.

It was there.

And you probably, did you ever work in a liquor store after that?

You're like, this is pretty nice.

No, we did a shrimp in video though.

We had shrimp.

We'd shrimp out of pound and come run a movie over there.

Pat shrimp in video.

And but did you have other movies other than Forrest Gump?

Yeah.

I don't even know if it is that felt 200 copies of Forrest Gump.

And one copy in the back of Forrest Gump, which is a different movie altogether.

Bro, I had no fucking clue you're this hilarious, dude.

That's awesome.

Thank you, bro.

I was having a shitty day.

I know Forrest Gump usually isn't in the press release before I show up.

But I said, you know, fuck it.

You're drinking Sonic and shit.

I'm like, mine as well.

You know what I mean?

I mean, after the whole Forrest Gump thing, I'm not getting any fucking, who's gonna

have me?

You know what I mean?

Forrest Gump.

Yeah.

What did we get?

What did we want?

I actually saw that on the spine of a point out in New York and the old tower wreck

records by Lincoln center up there.

To be honest with you, full disclosure, I wasn't in the porno section.

I was obviously going around to the free jazz documentaries and, no, I wasn't.

But I saw it.

They didn't have...

Oh, did that guy in black face?

They did it.

Let's hope.

Again, let's hope it's worse than we could ever imagine.

But they had all the covers off of the video.

They had all the covers off of them, but just the words in black.

And there's 1,000 words in my brain goes, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh,

forrest Gump.

I was like, I've never forgotten.

Dude, that's great.

Yeah, I don't remember the first porno.

I knew my...

I saw...

They had a stack of videos.

And I remember jerking off and blacking out.

I just couldn't handle it.

I couldn't handle any feelings, especially not that much at once.

Yeah.

And it was like, ah.

Well, they say the first time is, you know.

That's all you need.

You're never the same, you know what I mean?

You're never the same.

Did you...

Because I knew you had experience with drugs and stuff over the years.

Were there...

Did you try to...

Different drugs and thinking that they would help you ride or create certain music?

Was there ever any of that energy?

Or is that something that, like, musicians even do, really?

I mean, I've...

I've always done my writing.

I might be a little stone sometimes,

but I've never...

Did drugs to ride, you know what I mean?

I mean, I...

To that wasn't it.

But, you know, like, psychedelics...

They're in my writing, but I don't take psychedelics to ride.

All of it.

All of it's in there, you know?

I mean, I was a person...

Fairly well-adjusted in some ways.

I never took drugs to blotto myself out.

I always...

I truly...

Talking about romantic...

My romantic relationship with drugs and...

Okay.

Those lines can become blurry at a certain point in my life.

But I always kind of knew what was going on.

I was never into speed and shit.

I mean, I was a Coke person and, you know, hard drugs.

Yeah, that was my forte in the 90s.

At speed, thank God, like, only a few times I ever tried it, it was just the worst feeling

thing.

It just didn't go with my chemistry.

But I...

Yeah, I...

It was...

I fucking love drugs, you know what I mean?

I don't do them.

I'm...

I'm almost...

I'm gonna...

I'll be 60 years old this year and...

And I love my life and my responsibility and...

And to do what I do, I can't do that.

You know what I mean?

I, you know, it's a sing and sing at a high level, hopefully, to the workload is, you

know, when you're 25, you can do that shit and get up and...

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, dude.

It's a different story as you get older.

I'm in recovery now from drugs and it's like, yeah, dude, I liked it.

And if they came out with a version that was better for you.

They have it.

It's called pharmaceutical.

Okay.

It's just really...

They're lying.

Yeah.

Are you serious?

It's...

I mean, I tried it.

I mean, it was...

Not good.

It's not a pharmaceutical cocaine.

Yeah.

It's not enough.

Look it up.

Yeah, bring it up.

Yeah, bring it up.

It's...

Let's see what a bare-month santo is up to this week.

New pharmaceutical cocaine.

That's what we're looking for, probably.

Well, even the old one, I think, is better than the average.

Really?

I got this at the bowling alley, okay.

Yeah.

I got it when it was still...

It was still warm from somebody's hand.

Yeah, yeah.

Of course.

And if you didn't do it while it was warm, it was bad.

It was like Chinese food.

Pharmaceutical cocaine refers to purified cocaine hydrochloride, used in controlled medical

settings distinct from illicit street forms.

This classified as a Schedule II narcotic, controlled substance in the US due to its medical

value despite high abuse potential.

Yep.

Fantastic.

Huh.

That's the best yell-per-view I've ever read.

Dude, you...

It makes me think about this.

My favorite joke I ever heard, right?

It goes, what's the last thing you want to hear when you're giving a blowjob to Willie

Nelson?

I'm not Willie Nelson.

Oh, yeah.

I don't know why that's...

It's not my joke.

And I don't know who it is, but it's my favorite joke ever.

That's it for some reason.

I just had to share it with you right here.

I like it.

Thanks, man.

All I can think about is a sea of red and gray pubic hair now.

Yeah.

That's all I will go to sleep thinking about.

Oh, yeah.

So, cheers.

I can't remember what she had.

She could have had a cock on her.

I have no idea.

You were like, you were just so shocked.

I was so shocked that somebody would do this.

I couldn't understand that there was nothing under it.

This was in Atlanta.

This was in Atlanta.

Yep, this was in Atlanta.

I want to say peach tree.

One, not road.

It was road.

It was so cool.

Right.

They're all peach trees.

There's like, there's a few.

Something civil rights boulevard.

It was something like that.

It was a lot of action on it.

That's every street.

It really was.

Do you remember a time you got the highest you ever did in your life?

Like, you remember a time you got too high, kind of?

Yeah.

Yeah.

A couple times.

A couple times I got too high.

Our old keyboard player in the black crows in the 90s is Sky Eddie Harsh.

Ed was older, you know, and he'd been in the blues scene.

Ed was really my drug professor, you know, and he taught me a lot about not just music and stuff,

but especially, you know, the underground business we were in at the time.

It was a little native, huh?

He's Ukrainian, actually.

Oh, wow.

His parents came to Toronto after World War II.

Oh, Canadians are good.

But one night we were on the bus and he had like a couple of bags of shake.

A kid weed.

And he had talked like this, man.

You know, he's like, man, I'm going to go get some brownie mix at the truck stop.

I'm like, all right, all right.

I'm fucking, I don't know.

He comes in the bus and he takes two bags of shake and pours it in this little thing of microwave.

Brownie mix and he mixes that shit up.

He's like smoking a cigarette shit and he put that in there.

And I was like, all right.

I mean, I don't know how fucked up can we get?

And he put the icing on it and he said, you eat half an hour enough.

And I was like, then I was a racer head.

You know what I mean?

It was a nightmarish.

It was either 10,000 days or five minutes of complete mind ripping hell of the, I thought

there's only death can save me.

And I just, it was just dumb.

I just didn't know.

You know what I mean?

I was like, oh, I'll eat half of it.

It was the dumbest shit I ever did in my life.

Except the only worse drug experience I've had.

I was a kid and a kid at my school gave me some red man chewing tobacco.

But just like a piece like this.

I fucking put that shit in my mouth and my parents had gone out or whatever.

Five minutes later.

First it felt amazing.

The stars were brighter.

The world had a warm glow.

Thirty seconds after that, I can still taste the back of my teeth from throwing up.

So horribly in my parents' bushes at our house.

Yeah.

In Jackson's Creek subdivision.

Sounds like the worst CWT.

Yeah, the worst CW show.

This episode, you know, Tyler gives Jasper Climidia.

Where did you get it?

I don't want to tell you.

I got it for me.

Uncle Oscar.

Yeah, this week.

Well, he's not my uncle.

Uncle, you're Uncle Oscar this week on Jackson's Creek.

I could totally see it, dude.

Fuck, bro.

Yeah, there was something about being in the neighborhood.

There was something about doing drugs, dude.

I loved it.

I remember.

I was scared of drugs so long.

I didn't start until I was older.

Dude, I remember one time doing some shit.

Somebody gave me something supposed to be cocaine or something.

And I knew it was like a performance-enhancing drug, right?

And this is the second time I'd ever...

This is the first time I've ever gotten it for myself.

I'd done it twice.

I counted two songs.

I was working as a busboy and people said it was like a performance-enhancer, right?

And two will be able to clean these tables so much better than you were doing before.

Wait, you dropped it for 100%.

100%.

So I did this shit.

I'm down to Matt and Rouge.

And I was just starting.

I was like, well, I'm going to go for a good run.

I'm going to get a strong run in.

So I'm running.

I'm stopping and doing this shit.

And at a certain point, I just got...

I got really squirreled out.

Like I was afraid to run, right?

But I was wearing umbrose, remember umbrose shorts?

I was wearing umbrose and shoes and no shirt, right?

And I was like, oh man.

It's typical Louisiana.

Men's wear.

I get it.

Typical.

Swink on the train tracks type of energy, okay?

You're like, okay.

So I'm running right through like Tiger Land, which is like right around LSU campus.

And there was like a fence.

And so I jump in these...

I jumped over this fence.

I was like, I can't be...

It's too many people are out here driving by.

Jump over this fence and I'm in a kind of like a backyard area.

And then like a little bird bath or whatever.

And I remember I was drinking out of that bird bath when the people came outside.

Like what the fuck are you doing, you know?

You're like, I'm trying to get a tapeworm.

What does it look like I'm doing?

What do you think I'm doing?

I'm just stopping.

I'm ingesting water and bird feces.

So mind your own business.

Yeah.

I'm having an episode.

I'm having a hurricane Katrina Martini.

I was in Ben Ridge not a few years ago.

And I just we went to, you know, get some cage and forget some food.

Yeah.

So good food.

It was a little bit out of town.

And at the time I was with Camille and I, my wife, we weren't married yet.

But I had a Prius at the time.

I don't know, the shame.

But I remember eating and looking out the restaurant and I was like,

man, I haven't seen a Prius since I got into Louisiana.

You saw fucking trucks and fucking more trucks or shit.

I was like, if we pulled in here in a Prius, they would fucking kill us.

They would, it'd be, yeah, it's, it's not.

I mean, this was a while ago.

It's fun to put, no, it's not.

Maybe the, maybe the Prius stigma's over there or something.

I don't even have them anymore.

I don't know.

I don't know.

It would still be kind of frowned upon a little bit.

But it'd be understood, maybe, you know.

I had one because I wanted to know what a rectile dysfunction felt like.

Oh, yeah.

So I got one.

Yeah.

I knew that.

I was like, this isn't so good.

This isn't for me.

This isn't for me.

God, dude.

That would be my bad name probably a rectile dysfunction over the years.

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I know that you had like a, you're a grateful dead fan and that you guys have kind of crossed

paths over the years.

Yeah, yeah.

And you've played with some of their musicians.

Yeah, I spent a lot of time in the old realms of the GDs.

Yeah.

Did you go to Bob Weir's funeral?

I did not.

I did not.

I wasn't, uh, or with people even invited to it.

I don't even know how to say that.

I mean, I'm sure they had a private service room and then they had a public thing.

Yeah, I mean, I was super, I mean, I'm just super lucky to, you know, rise to the ranks

of so many musicians that I, that I've respected and loved and, uh, you know, we were talking

about Bob today and I was like, Bob's great.

His great gift is his truly unique, truly outside the box musician, um, somebody who,

just on his whole, that's how he was, you know, I mean, just very unique Bob Weir.

You know, no one thought like him or played like him or, you know, and that's, again,

when you look at the world of music, full of unique characters, full of unique voices,

full of talented people, sometimes troubled people, what, you know what I mean, just the,

and then you have someone like Bob who really stood out, I mean, that's what made the

Grateful Dead so special, um, it's funny how things that start off like that and then

become sort of so popular with, you know, it starts off, I mean, the Grateful Dead

start off is like, it's kind of scary, like art rock, acid, heavy acid.

You had to be pretty brave, I think, to go see the Grateful Dead in 1968.

Yeah.

That's a good point.

Because you were coming out on the other side, you know, I mean, like, there was no micro

dosing, you know, uh, it back then, you know, there was no cowards dose as I call it,

like, guess what?

A guy at, uh, Columbia University said I could take mushrooms.

I'm like, what?

You know, fuck it.

Yeah.

Read this article.

What about all of us in the fucking trenches for years?

You know what I mean?

What about us all of you?

What about all the, yeah.

What about all the brain damage we have, you know what I mean, I could have told you

that shit.

Oh, dude.

No brain damage.

No.

But like what?

But see that?

You know, you said you like cheetah chong.

Think about it.

Now we're talking about it.

I took a micro dose.

Good.

I'm happy, by the way.

Don't take my being sarcastic wrong.

I'm whatever it takes to get you to the night to have a nice life and deal.

I'm happy.

But you know, like in cheetah chong when he's like, he goes, that's the most acid I have

ever stolen my ticket.

He's like, what?

He's like, he's like, he's like laughing, I don't like that's the drug seed we grew up

in.

And man, I hope you have like a month, you know what I mean, look at him right there

by it.

I want to see this.

Actually, this is great.

Work your way up to these goddamn bananas.

That's a finkle steam shit kid son of a bitch.

Yeah.

I'll start you off with the strawberries and work your way up.

Hey, guys, what is he, banding scoop?

Hey, man.

Am I driving okay?

That's in Malibu on PC age.

Is it really?

Yeah.

I think we're parked here.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's perfect.

People don't even realize how much that scene has been used in other movies since then because

of that scene, right?

It kind of goes back to like where we're talking about the early advertising that I always

my favorite shit in the whole movie though is the thing out when he's like, yeah, these

are waiter uniforms.

He's like, yeah, man, we want to look the same, but different, you know, like a band, you

know, like it's a fucking anytime, you know, someone's like, yeah, they look like a band,

you know, it's Kriano Curtis, man.

Oh, I don't even remember that.

That brings a little bit bad to me.

I think I had an amnest or some fucking was called good, at least it took away whatever

it's called.

Yeah.

I kicked it in the head by a mule.

Was there an artist that over the years that, I mean, I know that's a weird question,

but was it like, was there, yeah, was it like an artist that you feel like had the most

effect on you as a musician kind of, or just as like a human being, I guess?

I don't know.

I mean, yeah, I mean, but probably my personal friends, you guys away who are great musicians

have always affected me, Todd Schneider passing away, dear friend, again, special, special

person, freak, freak in the world, lovely, lovely person at a very special friendship with

him, very sad, but like big people that I don't know or whatever, like when Prince died,

I was, I grew up, I mean, I fucking love Prince so much.

Prince heard a lot of people, like I remember a lot of my friends being a lot more shocked

than I thought they would when, when Prince died.

I thought Prince would have got a little more murals and t-shirts, but it looked like David

Bowie's got all that, you know, and I love David Bowie too, but I was like, I just, I mean,

Prince ever since I, you know, I grew up in Atlanta when I was like, before I got into

like rock and, like sort of punk and indie rock scene, I played a little high school basketball

and I was obsessed with funk, p-funk records, George Clinton, but I was there like zap,

band, S-O-S, slave, Prince, the time, Vanity-six, I was like, Rick James, I loved Rick James,

man.

Um, as a matter of fact, I have a scar under here, Rick James was playing the Cool Jazz Festival

at the, well, Atlanta, Fulton County Stadium and my dad knew a DJ at V103 FM, which was

like the funk station.

So this is kind of all before like rap music takes over and I had tickets to go, to go

see Rick James and cameo who I, I mean cameo was the other one that I loved and Frankie

Beverly and Maze was on there, a bunch of, a bunch of R&B bands and my friend had got

a ball of vodka and we got so fucked up the day before that I jumped in this, my parents

found me in the neighborhood swimming pool in the shallow end with my, I jumped in and

my chin was cut open.

I was bleeding in the pool and people like, get the fuck out of the pool that I was 15

years old.

I was like, I think I have a fucking pool.

You get out of the fucking pool.

I mean, I'm out of my mind and I look up and there's my mom and dad and my brother and

I had missed basketball, like spring basketball, practice or whatever.

My dad's like, what the fuck are you doing?

Why are you bleeding in the pool?

I was like, what?

And I got in the car and, and I was just like, and another thing, you guys know that

Rick James had a hovercraft and fucking does.

I mean, I'm pretty sure he does whatever.

I'm just drunk.

My brother's like, you need to fucking smell like booze and you need to shut the fuck up.

I'm like bleeding.

I go get stitched up.

I go, oh, my pass out.

My dad fucking kicks me away and like fucking five in the morning.

I have a full grown up hangover.

It's five in the morning.

He's like, we're going for a run.

We fucking run.

No.

Three miles.

Stan?

It was like the great Stantini.

Yeah.

We run three miles.

I didn't throw up or anything.

And we got to like the last 50 yards and he was like, man, you know, you're not going

to have fucking concert today.

I was like, god damn.

He said no.

He said, you fucked up yesterday.

Full.

What do you think?

And what do they do?

Guilt me.

What do you think your mother thinks?

She's probably happy that I'm safe at all.

So they never let you answer that.

What he's done, father.

Yeah.

They never let you answer that.

So I never saw Rick James.

Did you want?

That is a bad one.

Oh, dude.

One of the first shows I ever went to smashing pumpkins.

Actually, my buddy and I had a PDF file that dropped us off at Maryland, Manson.

We're underage.

We're probably I think 14, 15, he dropped us off at Maryland, Manson, at the Rendon Inn

over there in New Orleans, which is pretty wild.

But the first country.

We have like an exorbitant amount of pitos in your neighborhood.

You know that, right?

Well, we were kind of kids who were like looking for like people to be around.

And so I didn't know.

I was like, man, they're like creepy dudes.

I'll take you guys.

Yeah.

Yeah, totally.

So it's always like, oh, we, you know, and you don't realize they're guys at Peter.

You think he's just a cool guy.

Then you get older and you're like, oh, that guy was 37 hanging out with us.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, smoking pot and fucking, you know, trying to take it.

Hey, I'll wait for you guys in the parking lot trying to tickle everybody.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's crazy.

Oh, it's crazy.

Dude, the craziest part was out.

My best friend's got.

I used to, his dad knew the guy who was like the pito guy, this one guy, Mr. Richard.

So I would write letters from Mr. Richard to my buddy Scott and mail him to his house

all the time.

That's fucked up.

And his stepdad was shit.

That's good shit too.

I get it.

I like the, you know, you're just, that's the shit I love, bro.

I know.

Just the psychological torture.

Yes.

Yeah.

I get it.

And his stepdad would be like, oh, you still talking in this motherfucker and he coming

and just throw the fucking mail right at him.

And they already had the worst relationship.

He didn't know, right?

No, he didn't.

So I keep thought it was the real guys.

No idea, dude.

That's in like four Christmas cards every year from this dude, bro, because we are a

pedophile, but they fucking love Christmas a bit.

You know, because it's just an old dude stopping in and getting the fucking, and relating

with children.

That's all it is.

Dude, we see, look at the old Christmas pictures.

Your parents took you down to some guy, some drunk in a beer and you sat on his lab.

He's like, you know what I mean?

I'm sure.

If scub, boycats, boycats, guys, or petos, then the Santa guys, there had to be one, one

or two.

It's like, oh, we went to the Easter Bunny.

I know the Easter Bunny had an erection.

I can tell.

I could just fucking tell.

And it wasn't about pagan rabbit fucking.

This was real.

No, this is real.

Yeah.

God given blood to muscle erection.

The science of the thing.

Yeah, thank you.

Yeah, yeah.

That's great.

Somebody's a pedophile, and their friend is just the scientific.

It's the science of the thing.

It's a scientific thing.

You got an open, and have opened for you like so many amazing groups.

Is there like a tour or a part of like your music, or I guess even maybe your musical life

that you would go back to and redo if you could kind of?

I know you said you're not a go back guy.

Yeah, it is what it is.

You know what I mean?

Again, I, and I've had the opportunity in life if I've made, you know what I mean?

If I, if I, if there was something that, that I felt what, that, that I was involved

in when, that was rude, I don't know, whatever.

I've had the opportunity to tell people, man, so that was fucked up, you know what I mean?

Whatever.

I mean, I mean, and I wouldn't say if I didn't mean it.

But I don't care.

It's a change anything.

Right.

I, you know, they say, what would you, what's your letter to your younger self?

I'm like, I, um, I don't know if that would have meant anything, um, that's a good point.

What younger self would give a fuck?

You know, it's funny because I, I was saying that a day like, I love Stephen Tyler.

He's been supportive.

He's a friend.

I'm always there for him.

And I was telling the story when we sold a lot of records on the first record, he called

me and goes, save your money, man.

And I was like, I'm 24, I'm like, I'm not saving my money.

Like, I love you.

And I appreciate the wisdom because you've been through it all in this business.

I've made one record.

You know what I mean?

Like, I, I, I did appreciate the advice, but I was also like, I'm a, I, no way, am I,

no way is this the, I'm not just made the first record and had this success.

And now it's the time to play it safe.

You know what I mean?

I was like, well, that doesn't make any sense to me.

That's a good point.

Did you get something?

Did you ever get something that was pretty wild, kind of like something cool?

No.

Like a skull or something or like a human bone or whatever.

I mean, someone gifted me a human skull later.

Um, that was too weird, grateful, dead stuff.

It was no members of the grateful debts.

It was like at a parking, like a trade, like a, one of this.

No.

Somebody gave it to me.

I'm, I'm, I'm, but it was like a thing and I, I, my, my extravagance has always been

the same.

I like clothes and I like travel.

I like to travel.

I'm obsessive, uh, I'm obsessed with food.

I'm obsessed with cuisines from my travels and around the rapes and stuff like that food,

just the food.

You know what I mean?

Um, I, a lot of my downtime when we travel is based around food.

So that's a bit bougie.

But really all I spend money on truly is, uh, books and records, you know, I've been

collecting records since I was 12, um, and books as well.

So it's just a giant cluster of, you know, I moved out of my parents' house in 1987

with just cases of records and boxes of books and it's still the same thing, kind of.

Yeah.

Um, but yeah, I'm not a car guy or, yeah, I don't have like rare guitars and shit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I don't really like, I don't really spend money all my own with anything.

I kind of, I care about it.

But I guess you're right.

Like getting to go places.

I'm realizing this is a little bit more important.

I, I was just in, um, have you been to Oahu?

No.

I was in Kuiwans.

Oh, that's cool.

Yeah.

I went to Oahu.

They had like a surf competition going on.

It's like, uh, like a real one, you know, not like the Brady bunch.

Right.

But yeah, they had this competition was going on, amazing.

But it only happens if the weather permits.

So like each morning, you kind of have to get there and see if it helps with the conditions.

Yeah.

And hope that the conditions are cool.

But it's pretty incredible.

Just when I go to the ocean things, I like to go to Jamaica.

Ooh, I have a lot of, you ever see Diplo down there?

I think he has a house down there.

Oh, I mean, I've never been invited.

I'm going to tell him that I'm kind of in the country too.

I, uh, a place called Bluefield.

It's been very bluefields to make a bluefields bay in Westmoreland and Westmoreland.

There's bluefields.

Yeah.

Actually, I stated that place, the second one to the left.

Yeah.

I stated that place.

No way.

A long time ago.

Wild.

But the hurricane was brutal there.

It was brutal.

It was really sad.

But Jamaicans are incredible people.

So that's your place if you choose to go to a beach at your spot.

I like to go to Jamaica.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I like Jamaicans.

I like Jamaican food and bananas and meat.

Yeah.

Sweet sobs and sour sobs.

And I, there you go.

We have a Jamaican dog that's named Bami because in Jamaica, it's kind of deep fried

like a hash brown.

It's called Bami.

It's a piece of Bami.

So that's kind of the color of our dog when we found her.

She was a street dog in Jamaica.

Oh, did you ever meet that guy down there, McAfee, that virus guy?

You ever meet that guy?

No, I got to, when I go, I've been going for years.

We always just take off to the country, you know what I mean?

It's chill.

Yeah.

I like my, I have like really close people there, the most soulful, incredible people.

And we just fucking play dominoes and laugh and there's Bami long face.

Oh.

We're making dog.

That's a nice animal.

She's the best.

She has another name, the perfect one.

Do you always been animal lover?

I like, yes, I like, I'm a, yeah, we have a cool cat too.

Um, yes, I love, I love pets, I love having pets, but I would didn't have like rabbits

and, you know, guinea pigs and horses, you know, no.

I love horses.

I don't ride.

Yeah.

My wife's a horse girl.

I'm not good on them.

I've done it.

I mean, it's fun.

I liked it.

I like, I would be, I wish I'd grown up, um, we didn't do shit in my house.

That's why I was busy watching all these weird movies and getting weird and listening

directly.

You know what I mean?

I mean, I did play little like football and I did martial arts with my kids and played

basketball.

You know what I mean?

I did shit like that.

And when I was a kid, you know what?

I liked to fish when I was a kid.

Oh, fish is fun.

You've done it in like 40, 50 years.

I don't know.

Really?

You haven't done it in that long?

Yeah.

Who took you fishing?

Um, my racist uncle Bruce.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Cause my dad did really give a fuck about fishing.

Yeah, sometimes, but I didn't know he, I didn't know he was like that then, but I liked

it because we would go down to Florida and do saltwater fishing and then being in Georgia

we would do bass fishing and stuff.

It was fun when I was a kid.

But I haven't done shit like that forever.

Yes.

Sometimes I'm too busy reading show and cocktail.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, one more question about a music and then I want to hear a little bit more about your

new album.

Um, and the new album is called A Pound of Feathers.

The band made a record called A Pound of Feathers.

The band in this case was just me and Rich in our drummer, Cully, we, uh, we did, we

went in this record.

We went in the studio without any songs.

You know, we just had some ideas and riffs and, um, we

wanted to do it that way.

We wanted to do something that was, uh, more spontaneous and on the fly, really, and

see where that took us.

Yeah.

So we ended up, my joke with friends was we could have done it in five days if we had written

any songs, but it took eight or nine days or whatever to the whole album.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It was beautiful.

You know what I mean?

We were on a roll.

We, we, I mean, Rich has parts and I have, I will, I will go and have like five or six

notebooks full of ideas.

But that doesn't mean anything either because a lot of times I'll just pull things out

of the sky or whatever, um, no matter what the world changes, you know, we're talking

about buying snow tires and blow jobs for programs or reactors and rock radio stations or whatever.

The good old days Reagan.

Yeah.

And you can sell some fucking records, too, but for us, it's always like, that was just

a part of like the, the, the, the, the business that was adjacent to what we loved and wanted

to do playing in a band.

And it's funny because all these years later, we realized that making records, you know,

we're not going to be, we're not going to have, we're not going to sell many records.

We're not going to sell any records, but this is what it is.

But for us to get in there and to know, you know, and to feel that way and to realize

like, look, man, when we got started, we didn't know if shit, except we knew what was authentic

and real in our hearts and what music meant to us.

And if we're going to join, you know, when our, well, our first record came out, I'm like,

dude, we're in, look, you go in a record store and there's black, close records, but

there's John Coltrane records, you know what I mean, they're in atoms, you know,

they're coming.

Yeah.

Right.

And other Canadians as well.

But or whoever, you know, the multitude of things that, that we loved and the time, you

know, how important records were, that we're a part of something, meant something to us.

It still does.

And that we can still have a vibrancy about what it is we want to do and say that we

can have those moments where I'm sitting there and we're writing these songs and it

works.

And I don't care if it works again in, in other, in another construct, it works for me

and my brother because this is what we wrote, started writing some songs at mom and dads

and, you know, here we are.

Yeah.

And it's, and now our songs are in people's lives and that kind of thing.

But then it's still fucking energy that I like that I can look around and the fucking

darkened time that we're in and mustered the vibes to make something and feel, this

is what I want to say, you know, my poetry doesn't have to have any message other than

it's humanity other than, you know what I mean, the connection I want through the things

that I've done, the things that I am, the things that I dream of, my imagination, you know

what I mean.

I always laugh because do you, do you, have you ever seen Barton Fink, the movie Barton

Fink, the Colin Brothers movie?

No.

I'm not, actually, I think I tried to watch it.

Let me see a picture of it as black.

John Titturo plays this guy who goes to LA.

It's a movie about writer's block, but it looks just like a racer head.

Yeah, yeah.

Totally.

Totally.

But there's a scene in the movie with a writer, he's, he befriends another writer who's

a Southern guy and he's kind of, I guess, based on like William Faulkner or something

was in California.

I don't know.

But he has this real, Barton Fink's really passionate, you write for the common man.

And how do you, you know, how does, how, where do the words come from that you could communicate

like that?

And he's, and he's a drunk, the other writer, and he's from the South, and he goes, well,

Barton, I like to make things up, and I was like, I was like, that's it, you know what I

mean?

It kind of is what it is, and it's the same things I, I don't have a toolbox at home,

but I like to write, and I like to, you know, I like to dream, and this is a dreamer's

paradise.

I've made, I've made my own reality out of my limitations as of like fully functional

like person because of whatever the way my mind works.

It helps if you sing good, whatever, you know what I mean, and you like to get on stage

and keep people interested, and you know, there's a bit of the old, it's like Bob Dylan

says, I'm a song and dance man, you know what I mean?

So I'm, I'm that as well.

Yeah, it's a, dude, the other night of the girl was talking about her music for so long

that she got up and sang for me, and it was some of the worst I've ever heard.

And I'd like, for 70% of our time together, I was there with her, and then it fell apart

in that last one.

So I think the sharing is how you share it is, right?

But I do think it's interesting, like it is a dreamer's paradise, and one thing that

you don't want to lose, like no matter how like bleak times seem, or how dark certain

things are that are going on, is that we have to stay creative, right?

Like we, like as much as it hurts, or as it's tough, or it's like it's not, it's not

easy to sit and do to think of like, oh, I can be creative right now, I think if we

lose that, then that's, then that's going to be really bad, you know?

Agreed.

Agreed.

I mean, and that's, again, I think the inspiration of all of these things we are seeing have

all been played out before.

We've seen it, and the reality of that is, is we've seen who, you know, we'll see this

come to some sort of look, like I said, who knows between then and there, but I refuse

to, I refuse to allow defeatism to rule my life.

I refuse to let the fear and ignorance of the whole thing dictate my, my every fucking

thing.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Because, I don't know because I think you had, like you said, you have to, and I'm, and

we can get addicted to the new, we get addicted to that stuff, and then it takes over your

time, it takes you your life, and it takes your flame down, and it takes your flame,

and you're like, what am I doing here?

You know?

It might be, I mean, it's not even escapism to me because I need to, when we were talking

earlier about how I have to keep my head or I have to devote myself to whatever the thing

is, it's the muse that keeps my creative energy where I want it to be and what it means.

In the exact same respect, if these things, these things cycle through people, yeah, it's

proven again, you can't stop.

You know what I mean?

And I don't know, I feel, I feel like, I feel like, you can't, again, I'm not, I don't

want to put my head in the sand because that doesn't help, but I do realize that we're

on the beach.

Yeah.

Well, I do realize, too, that there's a lot of footprints on the beach, you know, people

have been coming to this beach for a long time, we just kind of have to remember that as

well.

That's a good point.

I mean, you know, people romanticize, and they, in any time in history, tyrants and

people, kings who have become deranged and, you know, the abuse of power and ego and

all these things.

And you can see what happens, you know what I mean?

You see what, you know what I mean, you, it goes for a while, but then it's over because

humans don't play that, you know.

If there's like a song that we use when we ride in a battle, say this has to happen,

right?

And we won't put you on a horse or me.

You know, I'll be, you know, I'll be in the back, I'll be the man.

I'll be the catering.

It'd be better for me.

I don't know.

Hey, at least you know, I still get a medal, you know what I mean?

At least, you know, the catering will be like very enjoyable.

Yeah, you know what I mean?

Like, sorry, sorry, Alcoma Dante.

That's the wrong white wine with the brand Zeno.

Do we, what song do we listen to when we ride in a battle, do you think?

Maybe it doesn't be like the perfect song.

What's a good one on it?

Well, it's definitely not onward Christian soldier, because that doesn't have a good beat.

I know, I can't dance to it.

What's that?

I don't know.

Would it be?

It's the long way to the top if you want to rock and roll by ACDC.

That might be a good one.

Yeah, play that real quick.

I want to make sure that I'm on the right one of that.

You had it.

I did.

Okay.

God, dude, so many things immediately I'm back in my bedroom, dude.