911

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1:03That's Fetch Pet.com slash save. Megan Rapino here. This week on Why Are You Like This, I am talking with Roxanne Gay. That's right. Roxanne Gay. Roxanne is a fearless writer and cultural critic whose impact was way beyond her New York Times bestselling books. We dig into all the big moments of her life. And of course, she shares if she's more mommy, daddy, or baby. Check out the latest episode of Why Are You Like This, wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube. Hi, it's Phoebe. This episode is the last of our best of criminal August. We've been making these stories for 12 years now and there are certain episodes that feel very special. This is one of those. The reason we're still able to make episodes like these after 12 years is because of the support we get from all of you listening. When you bought the t-shirts we made by hand, wrote to us, told your friends about us. We grew enough that we could make criminal full-time.

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3:07I didn't have calls where someone is breaking into the house, and they're saying, help me please. And then the closet quiet at whispering. And you can hear the noise in the background. But you're trying to keep this person calm and let them know we're on our way. I'm hitting mute to tell my dispatcher what all I hear while taking a call. Terry Clark has been answering 911 calls in New Orleans for 25 years. Believe it or not, actually when you did the application, the name of it at the time was police complaint operator. So I really thought I was at a job that was going to take complaints. But on my first day, when I arrived, I realized it was 911. And I was like, wow, I got a real serious job.

4:10So if I were to call 911 right now and you were to answer, what would you say first? And I do this every day. New Orleans 911 was the location of your emergency. So I give you my address and then what? Can you verify your address for me? My address is, I'll just make something up, 123 stone street. 123 stone. Okay. What's your name? Phoebe. Okay. Phoebe, can I have a call back number in case we disconnect? 210123456. So I'm looking at my screen to verify that's the same address if it is. Now tell me what show you emergency. I very thankfully haven't had to call 911 that many times in my life. But I do think that all I would keep asking you is, is someone on the way?

5:12And so when someone is on the way, yes, you still going to say, but are they on the way? You accent too many questions. That's what I get in my all day. Yes, I know it seemed like a lot of questions, but there are only way we just need to get through this. And I need you to make sure you have your door unlocked, put away any pets, have someone to flag down. M has, you know, well, the responder when they come there, but I also need you to answer these questions for me. We're getting information because we need it. We're not just asking questions to be talking to you. And then at the end, I'm going to tell you if anything gets worse, call us back. And I always like to tell my callers, thank you for calling. Today, a conversation with a 911 operator about what happens on the other end of the line and about what happens when you realize you recognize the voice on the phone.

6:16I'm Phoebe Judge. This is criminal. In medieval times, if you had been robbed or attacked or witnessed a crime, you would raise something called the Hue and Cry, which was basically a shout for help. Anyone nearby who heard it was expected to stop whatever they were doing to help you and try to catch the suspect. Anyone who didn't join would be punished. Later, different alert systems were developed. Watchmen patrolling the streets in the late 1700s carried wooden rattles to use if they spotted a fire. Anyone who heard it, both citizens and volunteer firefighters, would grab any equipment they had and run in the direction of the noise. In 1828, Philadelphia developed a system using a special bell in the State House steeple.

7:21A watchman would ring the bell two times if a fire was south of the State House. Three, if the fire was to the east and so on. But finding the exact location of the emergency with these kinds of systems wasn't easy. In the mid-1800s, the recent invention of the telegraph inspired a new system in Boston. Boxes were installed around the city that were wired to a central office. If someone needed help, they could turn a crank on one of the boxes which would send a signal to the central office and indicate exactly where the alarm was being wrong. You can still see some of these boxes on the streets of Boston today, and they still work. This alarm box system spread around the country. And then, in the late 1800s, people began installing telephones in their homes. We didn't get a universal number for emergencies in the United States until 1968.

8:26The number 911 was chosen because it was easy to remember and short, which was especially important when most phones were rotary phones and it took longer to dial each number. It was also unique. There wasn't already a 911 area code, and they hoped people might remember it. At the time, one member of the FCC said that 911 was going to be better known than 007. But it didn't take off right away. Almost 20 years later, in 1987, only 50% of the country was using 911. Today, about 240 million calls are made to 911 a year. Most of them from cell phones. But a lot of people call 911 when they don't actually need to. And sometimes, someone calling 911 can lead to a response that turns something that's not an emergency into one.

9:26The 911 system has been criticized for having a police first emergency response model and dispatching police to situations that don't involve a crime or violence. Terry Clark says she gets all kinds of calls. She says sometimes they're from people who are just worried and don't know what to do. I hear 911 calls with teenager moms all the time where I can relate and I notice against protocol, but you know, you might see I have a child, your age, I understand. Terry's daughter, Tania, is 17. That's one of the calls where you see I understand what you're going through, but try this. But anyway, or maybe they might call for MMS and they calling back because they've been waiting so long. You might give them my damn, ma'am, do you have a family member or a neighbor that might can take you to the hospital since MMS is not available at this time?

10:30You know, oh, baby, I never thought about that. Let me go ask my neighbor. So, hey, one last call we have to go to and they go into the emergency room. How do you keep yourself calm when you're talking to someone who's who's in a really who's actually in a in a very big crisis? I have to set the tone for them. And if they hysterical and I'm hysterical, we're not going to get anything, you know, we're not going to get them the help they need or the address because we both scream it. So, you have to set the tone and just remember, I need you to answer these questions so the responders can know how to respond to the situation that they're in route to whether it's an electrical pole or a stove on fire to a baby choking or if they had a stroke, have they had one before?

11:30You know, so they can know what all the equipment they need to bring inside with them. How do you recover after a day of answering calls where you're listening to a scared child or a horrified person hearing someone trying to break into their house? To be honest, you don't. You don't. We were strained not to bring work home with you. So, when I get in my car, I tend to take my ID off of my neck. That's like me relieving work, you know, leaving work with it. When I go home, the first thing I want to do is take my shirt off. I'm taking work off of me. But you get immune to it.

12:32You know, we can only go to the item or the incident at the end to see if the person needed to the hospital was the fire put out. How many family members are without their home or not able to go back to their house that day after that house fire with the police, you know, the outcome was someone arrested. Did they make it to the hospital? Their house broken into. We don't know if they're going to sleep at home that night. You never know what happens to someone after you get off the call with them. Can you find out? Not for operator, not really. Unless you go and research that call, but you take so many, you don't have time for that.

13:37When you get there seven, you probably waiting on 7 pm that night. Because all these parents have a high call volume. So you really never go back to looking and seeing what happened with this call. Not that you don't care, but when you release that call, you take a deep breath and you're ready for the next call. In 2012, a Northern Illinois University study looked at PTSD in 911 dispatchers. One clinical psychologist said, dispatchers are the forgotten first responders. They carry a high level of responsibility for coordinating the response to the incident. But they are very remote from it. High levels of responsibility and low levels of the ability to actually influence the outcome mean extremely high stress. Do you think that this work has changed the person that you are

14:41when you leave work, the way you see the world, the way you look at other people? Yes. For my daughter, because like so, and even in the world, if you've been looking at it, they've been having a lot of shootings at football games, high school games. So yes, you want to enjoy your senior life and have fun, but yet I'm scared. She don't understand. At work, I hear the danger all the time. She young, she just want to go, go, go. And you know, you have to be, I try to tell her, you have to be mindful of who your friends is. Mindful of your surroundings. We asked Terry's daughter, Tania, what she thought about her mother's work. I remember I used to like, if I was at gun, if something was coming for self, I used to wear the job. So I'm like, okay, so I'm gonna be like, now I'm on one with shame, emergency.

15:43So I used to be happy to tell people that. And like, I felt like from like the age of like six to eight, I wanted to be. And I went up a redder, but then I was like, I don't know. Tania, and she can tell you, sometimes if I had had a rough deal, whatever, she might come home and tell me, don't take it out on me, because she said, I be mean or I be snappy. But when I come home, like I tell her, give me at least 15 minutes. Don't talk to me. Don't tell me anything. Let me calm down. She don't realize it's a rush. You know, like, I need to calm down. I just need peace and quiet. After 12 hours of listening to people, problems, listening to call takers, dispatches, other people calling for things, like give me 15 minutes. Sometimes even when I come home, I have to sit in my car for 15 minutes just to be at peace

16:51with nothing playing the radio. Not being on the phone, just look here in the birds, on chirping or whatever. On October 17th, 2022, Terry answered a 911 call that she was never expecting. It really wasn't until I took to Neil call that I realized I didn't know everything inside of me. We'll be right back to listen without ads. Join criminal plus. Hey, before your Q3 call, I've got the campaign brief ready. Built from last quarter's data and the competitive landscape. Great. Did you include the differentiation angle this CMO asked for?

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20:02catastrophic threat to life on this planet. So do you fear us more than the people who made nuclear weapons? Life from scratch is a new three-part series from unexplainable. Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch us on Netflix. Terry, take me through October 17th. How did your shift start? Take me through how that day started. My regular shift was from 6.30 to 7 pm. I'm about to say 1900. Tinea had to work that evening. Tinea, who was 16 at the time, had just started her first job working at McDonald's. Her shift started at 5 pm. So I signed up to do a little overtime. I was like,

21:02I'm gonna stay here and make a little extra money. And that way I'm up. You know, I had it said when she got off at 10, I'll begin off the pickup. So my shift ended had just started the overtime shift. And I was plugged in and the call came over. Terry recognized Tinea's cell phone number on the display. Because 911 have called ID. It don't tell you the name, but it tell you the address and like, well, if it's from your cell phone, it tell you the phone number and give you the closest address that it is. Like the area or the street, it all depends on, you know, what company you have and a tower. So immediately, I looked at my cell phone and make sure I didn't miss a call from her.

22:05I didn't have no call, right? So in my mind, I'm like, why is she calling my work phone? I didn't tell her about this. Had she called you at work before? Yes. So all right. I might call her from the desk phone. But if you call the number bank, it'll come to 911. Instead of her calling like my extension, she probably just hit call bank and she'll come through 911 and she might say, mask me to my mama, mask me to Terry Club. So, you know, I'm like, hey, you can, I didn't tell her this over and over. Don't call that. But text me and I'll, you know, stuff I'll call you. So that day when her number came across, I'm like, now I want what she emergency. And she was like, Mama,

23:09we been robbed. I'm like, I know I'm not here, but I just heard. And so I'm like, what's your address? I know my child was at McDonald's. I know what she was, but I still need to know, hey, she could have left off. So that's verifying. And she was like, Mama, I'm at the store, you know, you know, it's me, Tinell. So I once again, what is your address? Because we're, I was trained treat every caller like their family. So when you get your family member, you treat them like their regular caller. No, I mean, it's not. One was the location of the emergency. Mama, can you please tell me something right now that McDonald's being robbed? Where is? I'm going to go to the program. I still need the engine. It's been robbed. What's the address? What's the address? The

24:09McDonald's all clear. I had to go through the protocol. So I went on the robbery, eggs, all my questions. Okay. Tell me, tell me if she got a gun. Who have a gun? The lady is a lady. Is she inside outside? Hello? Okay. Is she inside the location? Is she trying to rob the store? I have to ask you these questions, baby. Is she inside the store? Yes, Mama. Is she trying to rob it? Yes, she's trying to rob it.

25:10Give me a description. Give me a description. Hello? Okay. My little queen. Okay. We're going to hurry. Give me a description. She's a black lady. She got a mask on. She got somebody on the side. And she got a surprise. You're in the freezer? Yes, she has a surprise. When she said, like, when the freezer, that was my break in front. Because during the call, I had believed it or not, tears in my eyes. But I was trying to remain calm, like to get help, to feed them the information just in case, when I'm saying, what was she wearing? In case the police coming in way, and a lot of citizens don't realize we ask for a description because when the police come, and they don't just

26:12have one unit, they have multiple units. Someone might spot the bad guy. So that was my reason for asking. What did you, you were calm, but what was going on in your body? I sounded calm. I wasn't calm. Because I hit the mute button, some of it. That's my child, y'all. Get somebody to make dollars when she said, we're in the freezer. And you heard me say, in the freezer, I, we, we can never call no call a baby. You heard me say, baby, we coming, baby, I'm coming. I went into mother mode. Baby, I am, I'm gonna send somebody. I have to ask you these questions. What's your answer? I ran. Yes, she's on foot. Okay, and y'all inside the location? Yes, Mama. We're gonna get someone out okay. I have to ask you these questions.

27:16How many of y'all in the freezer? How many of y'all in the freezer? It's fabulous. It's fabulous. It's so, it's so great and one bullet. All right. Okay, what's your name? What's your name? Can you, can you? Okay, we're gonna have someone to come out okay. Y'all, they make dollars. I wish you. Yes. Okay, we're gonna get someone out okay? All right. All right. Okay, call us back if anything change of y'all have further information. Okay. All right. To hear your child call out for help and you're not there and your child begging you for help. And really, you, I'm sending help but at the time I'm not there to grab my child and tell her it's

28:22gonna be all right. It was painful. I'm a single parent and you know, I'm all she has. And that time when she needed me the most, it was a nothing but God that I was in her ear saying, we coming, mama coming. But then I had to switch it back to being professional. I was a nervous rate. I'm like, you know, will, will I see my child? Will my child get home? But I'm trained to do my child. We'll be right back.

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30:41Prepare to be bewitched in your insistence. Yeah, everyone we love does. It's not great for the tender fire. Sandra Bullock. Here's the thing about magic. It won't be silenced. Nicole Kidman. Everything is going to be okay. Everything's going to be okay. Just like it was when we had to bury a corpse under a rosemary. Different. Tania, take me through what was what happened. What was going on right before you called 911? So that is school. I really did not feel good. Like I had a headache and my friends is crazy because my friends they was like don't go to work. Don't go to work. I'm like no, I got to go to work. I need my money. So I go to work and I'm like okay, this is going to be a regular stuff. It's fine. I'm like okay, I'm looking at the clock time almost up. We about to go. Then we seen somebody come

31:41in with a hoodie. So I thought there was about the order. So I say hey, how you doing? I'm working McDonald's. I'm a how may I help you? And he had another girl. She was walking over there to go take the order or whatever. But instead she came to the back and me and my coworker, we looking like it's just like it's just actually for real. Like we really getting right right now. So I look and I'm like usually I always do it. Like even if I'm at school or something. If I'm if I took my phone, I took it in the back and I pulled my shirt down. That way you can't really see it. I don't remember clearly, but I really think that I walked sideways that way she wouldn't be able to see it. It was some way that I put it that way she wouldn't be able to see. I still have my phone on me. So when I seen the gun because I'm where she said I'll never forget this. She said, yeah, I think I'm playing and she pulled the gun up and I was like, oh, and like I'm the type of person. I really don't

32:43like guns. They really scare me, honestly. But I'm like, oh, well, okay. So I'm like, I gotta be calm because if I don't listen to what she said, I could get hurt. So I'm like, okay, I'm just following what she doing. So at first she was gonna take us to the back. But then she realized we had a freezer. So she put us in the freezer. So I'm like, okay, so I can't get out. I'm stuck in the freezer. I got my phone. So usually people phones don't work in the freezer. But I'm like, I know my phone about the work. So she closed the door and I wait about like five to 10 seconds before like after she closed the door or whatever. And I'm like, okay, calling 911. So I called 911. I'm expecting somebody to hear my voice and probably notice me because at the job, like I'm well known everybody know me as Terry daughter. Terry twin. So I called and I hear her voice and I'm like, this ain't nobody but God. So she was like, what are they wearing? I'm like, I'm trying to

33:43remember what they wearing because like at this time, I'm trying to remain calm because that's what I was thought to do. You call the police something going on. You remain calm because if you yelling, they can't understand what you're saying. So I'm like, I can't. Yeah. And had your and had your mother told you that always stay calm. That's something you would learn from your mother. Yes. I learned a Chinatown. I was the other adults. Don't worry. So, you know, I'm talking calm. And at the same time, I can't be disrespectful and I can't yell because the lady could probably be outside of the door. Um, I can't be disrespectful. That's my mama. Um, so yes. I'm like, I gotta make sure that I'm able to tell her this calm. We clearly that way she could be able to hear. And this was like a real big thing for me because like, I don't everybody who was in the freezer, I was the youngest. So I'm like, I gotta, I gotta show them. I'm not that childish. I can't be scared. So in a minute of the call, I tell my mom, I'm like, my, she got us in the freezer because I'm shivering, but I'm telling her at the same time. So like, I know she was able to hear me. I'm like,

34:45she got us in the freezer. And when I heard my mama, she was like, you in the freezer. And I know when my mama cried, like, my mama was never always the type to like, just cry. I mean, this was, this was your first job too. Yes, it was actually my first week. That was the first week on the job. So, to us, into the call, I can just hear my mama crying like in her voice, I could hear the change at home. And I looked at the phone, I'm like, wait, my mama really crying. So everybody, they like, are you only wearing any, only wearing? That's why I kept saying, mama, can you please send somebody, please? Because I'm scared. And everybody else behind me scared, but I can't show I'm scared, because I'm on the phone. Nobody else wanted to call the police, but I was going to call the police. Once you hung up the phone, the call ended with Tania, what did you do? I stood up, I told the manager on duty, I got to go. That was my baby. I was so nervous. I couldn't even

35:49log. I couldn't log out. That told them, log me out. I'm gone. And I clocked out. I got to, to, her job maybe two miles away, three miles the most. I got to, to near a job like in about five minutes. I ran red lights. I had to get to my child. And once I got arrived there, one of the sergeant, she made me out there. And she was like, your baby is okay, Terry. You know, you know, the protocol, you can't come in. It's a crime scene. And I was like, just let me hold them. So she was like, you know, we have a couple of more questions for her. And then you can get her. So I had to wait outside, pace. When she came out, we hugged each other out there. Maybe like three minutes,

36:54you know, just tears. That was, no offense, money. That was the, that was the first time ever that I just went to running, go hug my mom. Like, I got out. And I was like, my mom here. And let's stay what I went to. I went straight to my mom. And that hug was like, that was one of those, you know how it's been a long day. And you just want to get in the shower and go to sleep. That was that type of hug. Like, it was really a relief. That night, my daughter slept with me. I allow her to sleep with me because she cannot sleep with me. And I went to work the next morning. Did the people who robbed the McDonald's ever get caught where they found? Not to my knowledge. Has anything changed about how you answer calls after, after what happened with

37:56Tania? To be honest with you, when I may work now, I'm a, I answer calls, but every time I answer, or if I know Tania, not with like at school or something, my first thought would be all, please don't let this be my child. You know, it's a love frightening now that you don't want to call like you received before. When I get calls to where people been robbed of a family member, that if I'm their family member inside, not breathing unconscious, or the possible thing, they're dead. You have more empathy because to see a family member go through something, you know, you kind of see how they feel. Even though it was over the telephone, I felt my daughter

39:00pain. I felt my daughter, she was in, she was scared for her life. So I know how they could feel if they'd answer your question. Well, if I ever have to call 911, I'd be very glad if you were on the other side. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Tania, what do you think about being a 911 operator now? Whoa, that is a job that I cannot do because that's like a job for a very strong person. Am I my most strongest person? I know. So, you know, that's a job for a very strong person. Well, you sound pretty strong yourself, I bet your mother would say the same thing. I get it from my mother. We first released this episode in 2024.

40:05Tania Hill started college that year, and she just got a job driving ambulances. Terry Clark still works as a 911 operator. Criminal is created by Lauren Spor and me. Nadia Wilson is our senior producer. Katie Bishop is our supervising producer. Our producers are Susanna Robertson, Jackie Sajiko, Lily Clark, and Lena Silicin. Our show is Mixed and Engineered by Veronica Seminetti. Julie and Alexander makes original illustrations for each episode of Criminal. You can see them at thisascriminal.com. And you can sign up for our newsletter at thisascriminal.com slash newsletter. We hope you'll consider supporting our work by joining our membership program, Criminal Plus, at patreon.com slash criminal. You can listen to Criminal This is Love in Phoebe Reads and Mystery without any ads. Plus, you'll get bonus episodes. These are special episodes with me and Criminal Co-Creator Lauren Spor talking about everything from how we make our episodes to the crime stories that caught our attention that week

41:09to things we've been enjoying lately. To learn more, go to patreon.com slash criminal. We're on Facebook at thisascriminal and Instagram and TikTok at Criminal underscore podcast. We're also on YouTube at youtube.com slash criminal podcast. Criminal is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Discover more great shows at podcast.voxmedia.com. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal. On September 10th, I've waited such a long time for this. She has. Prepare to be bewitched for the own sister. Yeah, everyone we love does. It's not great for the tender fire. Sandra Bullock. Here's the thing about magic. It won't be silenced. Nicole Kidman. Everything's gonna be okay. Everything's gonna be okay. Just like it was when we had to bury a corpse under a rose bush. This is interesting. Practical magic too.

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