#928 - All Talk with Matt Giteau

0:00You are listening to the Hellish Broad podcast. What is up, Panas and dribbles, welcome back to another All Talk. Powered by the Toyota Tundra, Eddie. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Wait, you want to be powered by anything? It's a Toyota Tundra. It's a Toyota Tundra. No, that huge guest. Huge guest. Can royalty talk? No, it's not just royalty. Rugby Union royalty. This is a guy who has... And we get into it a bit in the podcast, but he's a through line, but like he's been a part of our lives since we were young boys. Yes, he certainly has. From... Ironically, we're back to the same age. From almost, I know, but... Well, he's a little bit older than us. He's slightly older. Slightly older, but yeah, he's been there from the good times all the way through. Through to the bad times and back to the good times. Listen, this is Matt Gitto, the man. Yeah, like he now... He doesn't. Honestly, we might be doing a disservice by even giving an introduction, but he has come

1:03from camera up to Sydney. He's come all the way to freshwater doing interview with us. He's got other things on him. I'm not saying the reason he's up here is for us, but he is a legend. An absolute legend. And a good man. An incredible man. You'll find him on the Coco show, which is the probably number one rugby union podcast in the world. Have to be. The Mitchell Swoop, the professor. It's a great show. He is reputation preceding. That's right. And we sit down for literally one of the great yarns we've ever had. And it could have kept going. Could have kept going. You know, we got coach short for time. Where respectful of his time. But I could have been disrespectful of his time. I wanted to be disrespectful. I wanted to be disrespectful of his time. I was not disrespectful. I wanted to change that chair and go give me three your best. Credit to me for not being disrespectful of his time. That's right. Punishment dribbles Matt Gitto. I'm waiting for the day when I lock in. Listen, let's let's let's let's let's officially start here. We're locked you all the back. What locks me out?

2:03Yeah. Well, the fact that I've never locked in locks me out. Like I've always been locked in. You don't know what I was talking about. So you could always argue that I've always been locked in to being locked out. Yes. You know, you're right. No, that is true though. For a couple of like, because there is like the athlete mentality, like you've had to, you've got a mindset that has had to lock in over the years. Since you were what 2001? Well, even before then, but like professionally locked in. Well, even that I didn't really lock in, but yeah, I know enough to, enough to make it though. Yeah, a bit of discipline. Whereas like locking in in this, in our environment is fucking tough. What's that looking? What's that look like for you? Like a lock in? Okay. If you're locking in, you're off the pier, say for the week. Well, no, I'm not off the pier, so if I'm locking in. If, right. So you're locked in right now. Well, I'm locked in right now. Locking in to be an unhealthy. Well, no, I like, like I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm semi locked in at the moment. Yeah. I went to the gym this morning and went for a run. Yeah. On the treadmill, which I know doesn't count technically, well, like that's what runners say. Ran five on the treadmill. Yeah. Went down to the beach, came here, did some work, went to the pub.

3:04I like it. Like it makes sense in my mind. Yeah. That's why I work out. I work out so that I feel good and I can have whatever I want and do what I want. I feel like I've earned it. Yes. But I'm not. We're now we're speaking the same language. Yes. I guess where I'm coming from is I look at photos of yourself and of Jew and of Swoop and you're looking jacked at various times. Yes. You're always looking good. He's always looking good. The other boys various times and I say to myself, Edward, will you ever lock in like those boys and get ripped and jacked? Have I got that in my future? Maybe. Well, dude, that's going to be possibly. Yeah, but honestly, and I'm happy to admit it here that we're going to need to get on some shit. Well, everyone else is exactly. I'm not saying you are. No, of course. I might be. Well, you might be. But like, yeah, I need help. I'm going to have to cut corners. Well, listen, at this age, I prefer to not like even refer to as cut in corners. It's like the only way possible. If you don't cut corners, you don't get there. Yeah.

4:05So that's your part. That's our part. Yeah. What's your, what's both your greatest assets? If you had to focus on one area, you feel like I'm going to rip this up of my body. Your body. As in that we need to just that needs about the most work or the thing that's like probably the thing that you feel like, like, so for Drew loves these quads. I can't hear your focus on that. Okay, right. I've got pretty good legs, but I've always, I think I've still, when I, from my rowing days, I've got a pretty good back. It's neck eyes in the back. You know what I mean? Like, I reckon I can get my back cranking. I used to, I was once told this and I mean once. So this is like, I don't have anything that I'm really ready on. Let it go. Let it go. I've got time. I had nice arms and high school wide cheer. And I was like, okay, all right. Now, did she specify what part of the arm? She was just on a C-she was on a lower arm. Because so at school, out, out GM where we were trained for footy first of the day, not a big deal. Um, the girl school around the corner was wondering how long I've got to tell you. No, no, no, you asked me all of that, actually.

5:06Well, how are you? What's the clock? That's three minutes. Yeah. Yeah. So the girl school would come and they'd train water polo. And so all the boys would go down there and just fucking lift weight to all the chicks were there. So that's the only time I've been told anything was sort of complimentary outside of my eyes, which you know, you can't train those. They're just in your head. Yeah. So like, I mean, with a bit of gear and the right attitude, I think I could get my arms back to a workable, maybe like a workable working order. Yeah. They haven't been good though since I was 18. So I don't know like, whereas your arms come in, they're still, what are you 43? You got veins, you know, like you're just, what's your best? What's your, what's your favorite then? Oh, good question. That's a great question. I think I'm pretty similar to you. I like the back. Okay. Snake eyes. Yep. We got, you know, it's have something, you know, you're training with the boys and over time. It's just like, I drew a few of your tear drops. You know, your little thing on you. Yeah. You've got a lot of tear drops to it. Yeah. I see people with tear drops and I'm like, you've got a little drop.

6:06No, that's because I've got a scar. Yeah. It's not a big crime. No, it's not a massive tear drop. I don't have one on this leg. I got one on there wasn't it? There's not much. What do we get? Little. They're nice though. If you whip them up, you can do imagine the definition. I know. I've got good carbs actually, but I just got a whip and my legs. He's got great legs. Every time we play golf with a friend of the show Ronnie Blakey, he always remarks on his legs and we're both standing there in shorts. So it's like, you're also telling me that mine aren't good. You're not as good. I have to take that on the chin as a man, but I'm like, then I also have to admit, you know, when you every head must bow every toe must profess. Right. You got a nice set of pins on you. Have you have you have you lost your passion ever for the gym or have you could you've always kept the rage? I feel like. Yeah, that's just something for me. I kind of need. Yeah, especially since retiring like you know, it's like I haven't really ripped in anything. I mean, the podcast is good fun with the boys, but there's nothing really of significance

7:07that I've progressed since retiring. I've been to podcast huge by the way. The podcast, you know, obviously, this really give that the credit because it's a fucking mad one. I appreciate it. But yeah, this is obviously the OJ. This is the one that everyone aspires to, to be like. It's good fun. Good listening. But yeah, I think the podcast, it's good fun. It's good to connect with the boys, but there's nothing really like you do things ambassadors and roles like that. I think being around home with the family has been great for me and I've enjoyed that. I've known this the game, but it's just for me training or doing something gives me a bit of purpose for the day. Yeah. So I always start with something in the morning. The consistency that 40 used to give you. Yeah, I think I'm very regimented that way. So we since I left school, maybe I'd won a year where I wasn't contracted, but after that, you're told I'm going to eat it eight, you know, and now we're going to meeting at nine, then we're on the bus, we go train like everything is detailed, even your holidays. Okay, you've got three weeks off. Yeah. No, but this is your program that you've got to do in those holidays.

8:08So then even in my holidays, I'd schedule, okay, well, this is when I'm going to run. I'll have a day off and enjoy this. So I've just always been a bit of a planner. A planner. Is it almost like you've been institutionalized a little bit? I think so, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like if someone told me like, are you not to train for two weeks, like I reckon I'd go, Jesus. I even get a bit of anxiety like thinking that I have to do that. I don't know. It's just like, what else would I do? I'd love to get in touch with that. Was that part of the reason that you think you played the game for as long as you did? Was it a love for the game? Or was it also, it's just all you knew so you just felt comfortable to continue? It was all I knew, but I kept getting contracts. So it's like, if you get a deal, you're going to take it rather than not. So I was going to retire after Japan. And then they had the COVID year. Then Adam Gilch has crammed through with the team in America. The Gilteini. So it was unreal two years there. Had another little break then went back to San Diego for one year.

9:09Physically though, like you could, I mean, I imagine you could still go and play in that not to, I'm not sort of disrespecting the American league, but like you could still get a contract there. Are you over playing now though? Definitely. Yeah, I don't miss it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not something that I tried to chase. It's not something that I even know that could be a possibility. But yeah, I think, yeah, it's just like days where you'd be training Monday, Tuesday, and that's the, that's the part for me that was killing me. Your Monday to Friday, like your weekend, that's fun. You go out and play, but it's just like talking about what you're about, what you want to stand for. Oh, yeah. No, we're constantly here. And that's what you hear from God in a chandron where they're going, we're going to get out, we've got to smash them, we're going to do this workout. You heard that right thing. You heard it like a billion times. On the weekend, they don't do it. So like stuff like that would start eating me up. I just wasn't enjoying that Monday to Friday as much. That's what I knew I was like this my last year. What do you think about bloody?

10:10I mean, like James Slippers, I just saw today, he's gone around again. And I mean, you obviously played longer than him. So maybe you can speak to it more. Yeah, but he stayed here. Yeah, that's what I mean, you got to go off and like travel the world. I'm like, you're doing another season in the Super Rugby. Yeah, the Brumbies, he's gone around again. I'm like, that is, he's already the most kept Super Rugby player of all sort. The second most kept test player ever. Yeah. Second most kept test player. Yeah, Sam Whitelock, the man or no, it's a well stood, isn't it? I think he overtook Sam Whitelock. And you've got Alan Wynne Jones. Wynne Jones might be top or maybe someone else. Can you check that out? No, I think it's Alan. I think it might be the worst. 37. Yeah, he's my, I'm a play against James Slipper and Harsley. Yeah, Wynne Jones to the 101. He's the one fucking insane. Alan Wynne Jones number one. Yeah, how many? 171. What's he on? What's the sleep run? 148. Probably a lot of tests. Could he get their sleeper to the record? No. Surely not. World cup. World cup. He will probably play in the world. He'll play in the world cup, won't he?

11:10Well, when I came back in 2015, yeah, I think he'll play. But when I came back 2015, I was on 92. And we needed to win 92 tests. Sorry, Slipper's on 154. 154. And Wynne Jones, I want? 170. 16. 16. 16 could work. He could get. Is he still, he's playing over his... He's playing over his pants. He needs to get himself on that overseas and tour. Yeah. Is he in Argentine at the moment? No. No. So he only played those first little block with... Okay. Under... You had... Who else was with him? I think because Teniela wasn't back yet. So maybe Joe Schmidt just picked him for that short little block. Okay, right. So he's not... He was only picked for that first little block. And then once he really knew where I came from. No, we might be. I think if he's re-signing, if he's re-signing for Super Clearly, I reckon... He's trying. Lezor said something. Oh, okay. Oh, I agree. You reckon he would have been like, get yourself in order and you might be there. Well, I mean, what's exciting about Super? No disrespect. Like, is there no disrespect to Super Roby Comp?

12:11But for slips like, what is it to come back and play just a Super Competition? Yeah. We only travel to New Zealand or around Australia, like there's not... Unless you've got the carrot of like, B-ready. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, unless you got that carrot. Because being the most capped Super Player, he's already that, isn't he? No, he's already that. Yeah, so it's like... 100%. And you can't imagine just given the way the competition is generally or rugby is generally in like the way it's so sort of like globally fraction now, like, is there going to be someone that's chasing that record down? Yeah, I mean, if your desperate is to keep playing... You could do it. I'd go overseas. Exactly. Yeah. You know, experience France, like a lifestyle with the... Yeah, for sure. Is that where the funnest part, like the funnest... Oh, like the funnest world of rugby was, just... Easily. When you were with... You need it like I was with Drew when he was there. So lunchtime, if we were done for the day, we'd just head to the beach, have some rosé. Yeah. And it didn't matter. Like, that's what I loved. What I love most about France, obviously we had a great team and good experiences. My kids were born there.

13:11There's lots of good things, but from a rugby point of view, you're only judged on your performance. So like, they love... They love too long when you're playing there. Like, the whole city gets around it. And the next day, if you go to buy a baguette, they were like, oh, Matt, a tackle. What were you thinking? Like, there you know. I slipped up there. But they love it. Like, they love the game. But they won't... If I wouldn't got blind on a Friday night, they wouldn't say, that's why you play bad. Right. He's played bad because you play bad. Yeah. They don't care about your Monday to Friday. So you can really just enjoy yourself. Yeah. Relax. Yeah. How have all the change, like that element to it, being like not scrutinized? Yeah. Well, you can't... When you first get there, you can't understand anything. So newspapers, interviews, if anyone else wants to do anything. If anyone's doing shit, it doesn't matter. You just... Sorry, I can't. Yeah. Can you do any of you? I said, no, I can't speak French. So you just wouldn't bother. So you just totally away from it. And then once you get out of Australia, you realise that there's other things, you know, in the world.

14:11Yeah. When you hear you're in that bubble, especially then for me, like at the backhand, I was getting heavily scrutinized. So it was like, I don't know. I just fell out of love for the game a little bit at that point. Was that back-end but sort of not like in that you would do that before you came back again? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like around the years when I got dropped from Robbie Deans for that 2011 World Cup, I... That was kind of around that period where it's just like he's washed up. He's done, like he can't add to the group, which may have been valid at the time. Do you think it was? Um, I think Robbie's... A coach is going to pick their team or the best team that they think can win a World Cup. I don't think he's going to exclude one person just because we had like, we didn't really see eye to eye. So I think he chose the best team for that World Cup in his eyes. But I felt like I still had something to offer. Yeah.

15:11Maybe... Maybe you came back so clearly you did. Yeah, but maybe at that time I was in like a bit of a bad mindset as well. It's almost like if I went out there I'd be like, well, fuck him. I'm going to go out and play, which is not the great place to be. Well, I reckon like fuck that coach who's giving me the game plan. Fuck him. I want to go out and play well like... Yeah. But then when I went overseas, I met the coach Bernad Le Port who used to be the French coach. He's like, I met what age are you? I said, I'm 29. He said, oh, you are baby. Well, you're 29 in 2011. 29. I was 28, turning 29. Fuck it, hell, that's like... That's primed it. But that's primed now. Back then it wasn't. Like you've got James O'Connor and Quake Cooper, Curly Beale coming through. That's the new guys. Yeah. I was washed to that stage. Sharpie got moved on. What did you do when you were in that's crazy? Yeah. But it was just the mindset at that time where it's now players are playing a lot longer. Seriously. But yeah, even just hearing that from Bernad Le Port when I got there, I just automatically I just felt younger. I felt like I had more to give than that's probably why I was able to play.

16:15Probably some of my best rugby. So you and Robbie didn't get on. Is that sort of like what happens there with the coach where again, it may not be that you're fucking hate each other. You don't get on. Like what are the things that contribute to that sort of a dynamic? Well, this is also... So for me, I was lucky that my whole career up until that point, even if I played shit in super rugby or tests weren't going well, I continually kept getting picked. So the coaches showed a bit of faith in me. This was one where I felt like I had to overprove myself a little bit like even in meetings. Very early on in meetings, Robbie had put up a game plan. And on a Monday, you get the game plan and you can test it if you're not in the... We didn't have a leader's group at that point. So I'd say, well, why are we doing that? Just because I want to know why we're doing it, but also you... As a senior guy, you've kind of got a little bit more clout to R.C.'s questions without getting put under the bus. Yeah. Like when I first come through, George Gregg and these guys, would R.C.'s tough questions

17:18for me? And he saw that, I think, as me almost contesting his game plan, like why are you doing that? There was more challenging it, whereas I was more like, why are we doing that? I need to understand. And then I look at it and I can think, okay, yeah, that makes sense. I can, like, I just need a bit of... So it was just like... It just wasn't a good relationship. We just didn't really... Did you notice moments where you would ask a question? Would he respond weirdly? Would you be in a meeting? Oh, fuck that didn't go well. There's one. Before the World Cup, we were playing Samoa and that was the first test. And the reds had just won the super... Super title. So all those players were arrested. So I was playing 10 because Quaid wasn't in and we played Samoa. We ended up losing it. We ended up being the scapegoat for that game. But before the game, I said to Robbie, I said, like, is there anything that you want me... From this super season, is there anything you want me to work on? Is there anything I can improve? What's going to help me have the best chance of making the World Cup? And he just said, you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

18:21And then when he said that to me... He said that to you, right? Well, that's what he said. He said that to me. So then, in my mind, I was like, I'm fucked. Yeah. I think I'm going here. So then from there, I played that game. I started against Samoa and then we lost. Then we went into the rugby championship, where you played it, so that, for you and whatever us. And I was just a bag holder. So then the riding was on the wall a little bit then. Damn, that's Jesus Christ. He's an old dog new tricks. Yeah, like Suzie said that. Oh, fuck, I, fuck. I mean, there's other things I can work on. I'm sure about. Yeah. Yeah. How did you... How did that make you feel at the time? Did Pish off? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Was it Angle? Was it like... I was all that we were taught in. I wasn't so much the embarrassment. Like embarrassment was when I got dropped. Like when he didn't pick me for the World Cup squad. Yeah. But no, that stays like, I felt like I said I'd always been picked. So which was a good lesson for me. Like, I felt almost entitled and like that Jersey was mine. But that's not the way...

19:22So I can see his reasoning in not picking me for the attitude kind of side of things. But then when they went to South Africa for the final test, I sent him a message because Jeremy Paul called me up and he's like, kid, what's going on? I said, I don't know. I said, I think I'm done. Like I'm on the outer. And in 2007, a similar thing happened with him and John Connolly. He got dropped, but he didn't. He thought, fuck, there. So I'm going to... I'm not going to suck up to him. And it was the one who already had not apologizing, saying, look, I'd love to be there and be a part of this team. Whether I'm playing or not, just supporting the group and adding for this World Cup campaign. He didn't send that message, but he told me, I should do it. So I sent that message to Robbie. And then when Robbie came back, so they called me to come up from camera when they were coming back for South Africa. I sent the message when he was in South Africa. And then when they were coming back, they asked me to fly out to Sydney. So I flew up to Sydney, met with Robbie just in the team room.

20:24And he just said, look, we don't have a spot for you. We're going with a 17, 13 split, which means 17 forwards, 13 backs, because you're in the squad at the time. And I was like, okay. Did you get my message? He said, oh, yes, sorry, I only just got it now. So he didn't even fucking reply to it. He said he didn't have reception when he's over there. Okay. I mean, this is 2011. So things have happened since, in 12 years, receptions, or 13, where we were. 15 years. 15 years, right? I think he would have got the message, but I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, bro, like you didn't go and fucking holidays and message your parents when he was 2011. Like yeah. Well, you see, I remember even seeing emails way back in 2004. You definitely did. Of course you fucking did. Listen, he's been in a yarn because he was off our boy. Yeah. Anyway. I can't comment because like, no, no, no, no, no. And I also understand. That's pretty his reasoning. But then when he told me I got that, I said, well, why did you fly me up here?

21:24That's when the embarrassment, you're talking about embarrassment. That's when I was embarrassed because you had the whole squad there. They're all getting their kit. Uh, they're stuck for the world. He flew you off. Flew me up that day when they're getting. When they're announcing the rugby world cup squad. They announced it just after like an hour after. So he said that. Oh my god. Well, maybe for to respect why is Jim Williams over there in his undies? Like he was getting changed. He's travel clothes into casual was the physio team unboxing all the strapping take there. Why can't we do it just us to and then he said, I, you know, that's just what it is. Um, I said, okay, so when's my flight? He said, well, you're out tomorrow because then that night they were going to dinner. The group. Oh, you want to come back? I said, why my, why my flight tomorrow? So can you change my flight and get me out straight away? I was rigged, we room with D.B. You aren't at the time. And I went up, grabbed my kit and he said, oh, where are you going? I said, no, we're just changing rooms. I was just doing barris to say, yeah, I've been dropped. Yeah. Because this is all the squirt that have come back. Um, so then I just grabbed my stuff, got in the cab, text, put it on Twitter.

22:27I was like, thank you, Linesman. Thank you, ballboys. That's it. That's all I wrote. Turned the phone off, flew back to camera and then things just erupted. Hey, are you want to find me because I announced it before the World Cup of Indian Arts? But little things that I didn't even know about. Yeah, but also like, I actually didn't say it. I just, you just, they've flown you half. They've flown you all the way up to Sydney on the text. An hour before it was getting announced, make your sit there. Well, there's like people around and you got a room with them and then be like, sorry, but the thing was, that's brutal. Well, he's, I think more, why you want to keep me as just singing, well, you're going to be part of the squad like if there's an injury, you're coming. So I'm still included with his mindset. Right. But I'm not like, no, you're short. The ending, I'm not going to say to the boys like, or hope that they get injured, you know, it's like for me, I'm not picked in that 30 squad. I'm not picked. That's it. I'm also, and you wouldn't say it yourself, but you were in a position in your career where

23:30you were, you were kind of quite rightfully had earned the Kashay to be, whether it was an automatic selection or an automatic inclusion in a squad like, I don't think you ever earned that. No, no, no. The thing is like there was a period there, as you said, where you would get picked, you know what I mean? And like, there's a difference between someone who was, who had done what you done in the game and someone who was maybe newer to the, the setup where it's like not all people and treated the same, you know, you got the right to speak up and not, you don't just sort of like, fuck someone around like that. It would, it would feel well, I reckon our views of respect are different like, we're at the time. Myself and Robbie, I actually caught up with him. I went to Europe for the, in between semesters with the kids and we're at the train station back to go see Tony Ray who used to be my Brumbies coach, leaky guy who used to play for the bears. And as we're going the train station, Robbie comes past with his, you're all walking

24:31there. Walking there, but my kids are like, well dad, you know, you always play for Wallace and said, I know I missed those a couple of years when I went over France, but your boys were born and I didn't play. Like no shit, then like a minute later we're walking past him. So I'm talking to him, talking to Penny and everything's fine. Like from my point of view, it is fine because I mean, I can get to that a bit later like because it gave me more drive to succeed and play better over in France, but after we shook hands and wished him all the best and sent him on his way, that's why I said the kids, I said, you know, I missed that period there, I didn't play. I said, that was the asshole, didn't pick. In a Joverial, yeah, yeah, yeah. But kids are like, well, what'd you talk to him, dad? I said, well, that's just like what adults kind of do, you know, you move on. It's a learning opportunity for the children here. You'll let it go. Yeah, ran into him again. Isn't that the other guy? And he's not a big sense in seeing him like, well, Japan, the first year I got to Japan in 2017, we played Panasonic, which was his team and I was playing for Santori in the

25:33final and we won that one. But that for me was like a real bit of a personal closure. You probably didn't even think about it. But for me, I'd built that up all week. He might, I would. Because on playing Berwick Barnes, Berwick was picked on the squad to go. Berwick was a 10, I was a 10 for this team. Maybe I thought too deeply, you know, like, that feels like what athletes do though, right? It feels like that's what you guys do. I feel like I was getting one doing it. Berwick probably didn't even give a fuck about it. I feel like it was a big, good time to have a turn you and Berwick over the years. Little bit. We were bus buddies. Like we'd sit next to each other on the way to training. Yeah. We'd have your little spot. We were five back on the left. And like we just talk and get along like he's a great fellow. We had a good relationship, but it's just because you're competing for the same position. As soon as you start training, I could care less. Like, as in, these got the ball. I want to hit him. I want him to look. I don't want him to look bad. You want to prepare. If he's picked in the team, I'll prepare the team the best I can. But when you're no test that week, you obviously, your goal is to go better than whoever you're up against, you know?

26:34100%. Would you say that he was your, did he drive you the hardest back then? No, he'd be decent. He'd be down. Yeah. Because all the praise he gets even now. Yeah. Boys there. No, don't do it. And Kupy there. Unbelievably tight with him. Oh, really? And I like, I respect the guy. He's like, he beat me for however long. But because he would constantly win. And back then before social media was like put on the press in the newspapers. Yes. Like he was riding the articles. It's hard for me to get past it. Yeah. He was good. Was it, was it fucking annoying as well that he's handsome? So handsome. Yeah. Yeah. And I was knowing about looking yourself, but we just see that. No, no, no, I get it. That all New Zealand tends seem to be hot. They're all hot. Oh, Ruben loved now. Ruben loved it. What are we talking about? Yeah, he's gum chin. What are we talking about? Like it's, it's ridiculous. Well, you boys are now starting to dip into this rugby scene. Well, maybe the most impressive union player.

27:35Right now. Look and athletic. We'll see. So I like, I was like obsessed with rugby growing up. War gloves because of you as an under 13's football. I'm sorry. I still get you. Yeah, I made my gloves and under 13's football. There was a real glove period. There was a gloves period. And you were, I'm not saying it fault, but you were a part of the gloves. René, so we're not René since the 2003. It's close. You still owe. Dell used to rock them. Dell loved them. Dell loved them. Dell loved to glove. Georgie Smith had him early on. Georgie Smith did have a glove. I might have graded into the seven position and a glove. Like the fact you were even wearing gloves and there is insane. Yeah. There's a lot of people wearing gloves. Yeah. A lot of gloves. Yeah. Well, they're free. Yeah. Yeah. Right. No, I got it. No, no, no, no, no, I get it. In terms of, but so, love rugby growing up and then there has been a period in Australia where it's just sort of like it, it, it, it changed. Yeah. At some point, right? And it's sort of, it was, I mean, you could put it down to the fact we haven't won a

28:36bled since I was two, but like even then, like 2015, I feel like rugby and the warriot tyres winning and shit, that was 14, but like rugby was still like big and it was, but it still felt like it was thinning out. Yeah. From 2015 onwards, I sort of just like, I would watch wall of these games. But I heard it's in a homeworld cup, right? It's, it's an attractive so. But in terms of best players like in the world, like I honestly quite genuinely, I'm like, I am always surprised that every time I look at New Zealand, I'm like, there's a, there are like a significant amount of players I've never fucking heard of where I'm like, oh, they just keep churning out these absolute stallions that I can't even keep my eye on. In the wall of these, I've got more of an idea and my favorites in the wall of these right now are Max Jorgensen comfortably. I think is my favorite and Angus Bell. Oh, yeah, Belly. Bell's just like this big fucking thick. But he moves, he moves. He moves so well. Yeah. And that's more like an emotional play, Bell. I'm like, this guy just sometimes I see New Zealand's still going to be artisanal for sure.

29:39Yeah. Guys are free. Yeah. But who, who are some people? Because our audience, we certainly skew more rugby league, but like who are some of the big dogs that we, like South Africa, like, yeah, who, who in South Africa? Because we're also offended on behalf of the nation that we're not invited to this bloody New Zealand South Africa. And we're not invited to this rivalry, they're calling out. That's, you know, I mean, like that is, that's the whole shit. We're not invited. Well, yeah, I mean, I reckon the shit when you're not invited to anything. That's not really an answer, I reckon the pardon or something. But it's like this was just decided where they just said we're going to play each other. We're going to play each other. I know. But no, they were like, we're going to do a full big, you know, Ishan lines style tour. Yeah. How would you oppose that if you were full wall? What would you have done? I would have kicked your toys. I would have kicked toys. Yeah. I would have held my breath. I would have been like, I would have said, listen here, boys, listen here. Don't make me have a fucking tension because I will. I will. Because all we need to do is just give it, just keep scratching away at Australian road because

30:39this is where all the money is. Don't forget that. This is where all the fucking money is. So don't stop fucking excluding us. No, don't leave us. We'll turn off the tap. There's British and Ishan lines. Same thing. They're like, oh, I don't know if we're going to tour to Australia anymore because you're not that good. That's where you make all your money. Yeah. So what are you talking about? You're making more money touring so they're going to use ill. No, you're not. So shut up. Right. And let us come. And let us come. Let us come, dude. I wanted to be there for the dangerous. I would have put up money. I was fucking insanity. That was like, it was cool. I love the footage, but I'm also like, that seems to be the kind of thing. Well, I just love being binned now. What are you done? They're supposed to do it this week in Janusburg and it got. Oh, I got the key. Please, Santa. Crush it. It was a bit close. Oh, very close. It was a bit close. Can I introduce you in another? Yeah, please. It was close. It was particularly close. What do you got there? Is that Tequila as well? Whiskey. Would you like a whiskey? I'm more tequila. We got tequila. You want tequila? I think last time I left here pretty buzz last time. Yeah. We ripped it.

31:39We got a couple of tequila's, Cody. On the rocks. Sir, you're on the rocks. However you serve. Yeah, let's have it on the rocks. Yeah, we serve it on the rocks. Couple of tequila's, please, Cody. Yeah, that's the first time I'd had that rep, reposada. Reposada, yeah. That's the way to go. We were out of the race. We got it in your hell. So that's a bit smoke here, isn't it? A bit smoother, probably. Yeah, so in YeHo, reposada, Blanco. Oh, yeah, the Blanco. Blanco, migrators, you know, like you're mixed. But then you get your reposada still very much enjoyable. Yeah, I find that one the best. I've had that in YeHo. And yeah, it's good. It's good. Mexican. No. I like that. Thank you. Yeah, dude, you do have it. No, you do. I could. Well, because you've got a bit of a sense of that. I've got something that we're not sure. You know, I can see it. There's something in there in YeHo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Any in YeHo, dude. Any in YeHo. Go ahead. Is that called me in YeHo? So Dan Carter, that prick. Yeah, Arthur.

32:40Arthur. Is he a good bloke? Is he a good bloke? Is he a betchy? He is. I always are. Can you look at the camera? Can you look at the camera? I want to come on. Just say Dan, come on. Desey, please. Please. You've got to get on. That's not a bad idea. I'm trying to do it. Yeah, he's great fellow. It's the same with Johnny Wilkinson. I was going to ask about him now. First time I went to Tulan and I just hated this asshole. Yeah. They carry on about him kicking this field goal and I was like, it's a kick. It's not a rugby player. He's more of a soccer player. Yeah, he was. Then you get over there and he's unbelievably nice. And the skill set and what he's got to his game. I mean, we're starting to see it now on Instagram every once in a while. Oh, I'm out. That was actually too much. I've been loving it. And the way he goes on these sort of poetic rants and then at the end of it, it culminates in this kick that was definitely first go. You just tell him. But the kick he doesn't care about. No. What he cares about the message, everyone's just scheming through his message. His deep message, where he can just kick yet. But his deep message, I'm again, I like his deep message. We think that it's the first kick and I like to think that it is as well.

33:42But it's also the way he delivers that message like he's filled gold before an hour and around like he doesn't stutter. He doesn't fuck up his words. He just absolutely nails it the whole way through. There's something like peaceful and meditative about the way he's like talking about like rules for life and how they cross the coalesce with kicking a footy. Yeah, I, when I was with him at dinner, I was like just talking about different stuff because he's deep into Buddhism and you know, obviously the afterlife and different things. That's where this messaging like he truly believes. That's why he can do it in one take. He's not thinking about it's not a message he's got to remember. Yeah, right. It's just like, it's what I believe. You know, like energy going forward, all this stuff that he wishes he believed in more when he was playing because he restricted himself. Like he would play it. I reckon about 80% of his capacity. What? Because he was too worried about making a mistake. Is that right? Yeah. Not about making a mistake, but it's just like he was trying hard, but it's just he knows

34:45that anything that he did would be magnified. You know, like in the press, I asked him to play a barbar's game with us. Barbaran up on cool. So the barbarians do know much about the barbarians. Yeah. So it's an invetational side. There's one player that's not capped. The rest of all capped for their country and you basically just get on the piss for four days. Yeah, Friday off then you play Saturday. So there's no expectation to play well. Actually, I don't want to give it to you. You're a bit sick. I don't want to. Yeah, so there's no expectation to play well. And then I got asked by the guy, the head of the barbarians, because myself and Drew and Simon to go, he said, well, do you want to ask Johnny for your play? So yeah, I'll hit him up. So I was like, you want to play? He said, no, I can't do that. So why? He said, mate, if I play terrible, it's wicked. Though everyone's going to be in to me. They'll just say, oh, he's lost. You know, he's done whatever else. How far into his career? Sorry, was this? At the back end. Yeah, right. But it's also, it's a week. No one expects anything. I said, we'll move you to fullback. No one's going to expect to play well.

35:46You're not quick. You can't. You can't step. Also, surely someone like him has just a free pass for life to do whatever the fuck he wants. Well, you'd think so, but this is his mindset. Everyone needs to know that it is any surge on it. Yeah. It's not to me. No, no, no. Well, mate, if you make it to know that you don't fucking ever call him, certainly. Absolutely. I make him call me, so it never happens. But he, yeah, it's just like his mindset there. And I just, I couldn't work that out, but that's probably why he was so meticulous. Why he was so good at those core areas of his game. But yeah, he's social media. Some of the stuff that he's doing, I'm like, mate, I wish he did that one more playing. Well, but it's interesting because it's like social media. You can't give it a go. You can't give it a go at the point. Yeah, you're hitting these torps. Where were the hate in that phone? Well, you threw it for us. Yeah. It's funny to see him, like, how well those videos work on social media. Because it's not an exact science, you know, Instagram. What do you do? What's going to hit? What's not going to hit? There's something he's just, it's that this peaceful, weird, authentic video of Johnny

36:48Wilkins is just going, and he's walking and talking and he's like taking a drop girl from 10 meters. And then he picks up the next one and he just keeps walking and he's telling your stories about life turns around and just crushes another one. From halfway, from halfway. And then he gets another one and he just walks off and just sort of like, it leaves enters the shot. Exits the shot. You're like, this is... He's like, you know, if you had a few of you and one like he'd still post the same thing, like he's not doing it for you. That's probably why it's hitting. Like it's genuine, it's authentic. It's showed up like he... Yeah, but just like he unbelievable, like the skill set he's got, but like I said, back to the original question, DC is a good fella. Yeah. So it's showed up, unfortunately. We were doing a bit of research as we like to do, Matt, before the podcast. We really liked it, dig deep. And I didn't realize that you played in the World Cup final, subbed on first, Steven Larko. Yep. Yeah. How old were you back then? I think I'd have my 21st in that World Cup campaign. Wow. So I just turned 21.

37:49And that must have just been the most surreal experience. I really remember much of that final lot because it was... I was like just such a big occasion. Like a set whole load. Yeah, but the whole World Cup, I remember then my dad's mom gave me a scratchy before that World Cup. Yeah. Because you know the two-dollar scratchy, it was just like, well done on making the team, he was your present. Scratching, I won 50 bucks and I was like, fuck, that's pretty good sign. I feel like we're going to go all the way. So then I didn't cash it, didn't cash it until after the final and then we obviously lost, but I lost the ticket. That was kind of like a sign in the end. I thought I won, but I didn't. But yeah, that whole, just playing here in Australia even going to Adelaide, there's people we're walking along the street and they know who you are. Like they're just good like this weekend, like just... Was it more, were you more noticed? Like was rugby more noticeable then?

38:49Yeah. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. You look at the superstars we had, like they were just off the back. Previous World Cup, we won. Yes. But we were one or two in the world like it was us on New Zealand really. England was starting to come good. 10 with all time grades. Yeah. Unbelievably good players. And this is like when I'm coming from not even super rugby, I got picked out a club. I've got a train with these guys a year before. I don't know anyone. Pick out a club, how on earth does that happen? Yeah, it's like it's not your normal path. No. I think I was fortunate that Laurie Fisher picked me out of clubs. I was playing cults in Canberra. You got picked out of cults for the Walla Bees. Well, sort of... What? What? Without playing for cults. So I'm playing, you're in cults like for your area or there's a... From that cults team, I was picked for an academy. For another, it doesn't know cults is like under nine ends. Under nine ends, yeah. It is under nine ends. And I was picked in this academy and this academy was a Brumbies Academy.

39:49You're not given obviously anything, but it's with potential that if you train well, you may make the main squad. So I was just training and that and we'd only trained twice a week, just made up no games. From that, there's an Aussie 7's team that was picked. And that Aussie 7's team is for guys that aren't contracted. You know that'd be a super rugby player at that point. But it's if you show potential, you can travel around and you play. It's almost like a pathway to you might go academy 7's into a super rugby contract. Yeah, then Walla Bees or whatever else. My first training session, Eddie Jones came to it and he was Walla Bees coach at the time. So they had to get around to your under 21's and just support the whole program. Whatever happened that training session, he was like, I really like that kid. What's his name? And Glenn Ella, who was my manager, was the back coach for Walla Bees and he's like, it's my kiddo. Afterwards, he told me, he said, you might be going on the walla Bees to the end of the year. Is that is exact? Was that as insane at the time as it feels like now that like you were just like potentially

40:52no sense. It was crazy. It was crazy. But off of training session. Yeah. Training's easy. There's no outcome. You just do whatever you're doing. You obviously, especially seven, sevens, we just run. Yeah. You're running tackle like it's just fitness based stuff. Yeah. And he liked the way I trained. A guy got injured in the camera Vikings. A number 10 got injured. Craig Robud's Diddy's hamstring. And he was just a local legend there. I fueled him for that week at number 10 and got me in the match. And then I was picked at the end of season two like it was all kind of stayed in that team. So that's so much. It was 2002, I think. 2002, yeah. So you were playing Colts that year in 2002. And now end of 2001. Yeah. And then you've got the off season over Christmas. Yeah. Then I got picked in the academy, but I hadn't planned a game. There was no other game played. It was I imagine your friends might have been like, you're full of shit. Yeah. I know. I feel full of shit. You feel you're lying to me. Yeah.

41:53You feel like you're an imposter. What a wig out. I mean, it was a message. I remember when you came out of the scene because you were young, like because you looked young as well. Like we were looking back at some old videos. Oh, yeah. We've got some old footage. We'll get it up. But um, like so I remember it coming across, but I just like when you came out of the scene, but not to the degree that you're saying that you're plucked out of Colts. That's anyone. You rooming with George Gregg and like early on. Yeah. Yeah. And I had a talk to this like normally like I know. I mean, if you always then was it a bit more still hierarchy or like, no, that matter is very, very easy for me. No, I didn't. I didn't even pissed off that you hadn't even really, you never know a super easy. Is there any like, oh, what's this? What's this kid maybe? Maybe bomb the back. Yeah. Not on my face. Well, that's good. I think because I was picked so far out of the criteria. Yeah. Maybe the boys felt bad for me and they kind of wished that I would go well. Yeah. As you know, geez, I've made it up. We've been like, we've been not picking on him because he actually doesn't deserve to be here.

42:53You know that? Yeah. Yeah. Fuck, don't say that. How do you then feel like you'd like to so or so? Was it the workup 20 to the three? Yeah, to the three. So the end of the year. How do you feel comfortable in that period of time? Like what, what was there any process that made you feel comfortable or like you belonged in the period from when you've come from Colts into the Wallaways that or did you like, what was that? Now the hell did you feel comfortable? There's nothing. Greegs pulled me aside. We were obviously from the same school. I remember when I was 13, he came and he'd just done that big tackle. I wasn't long after that tackle that he didn't let it go. Yeah. And I'd kicked a field goal for our grand final and our rugby, you know, headmaster kind of pulled me up, John Papatus and he said, oh, this is, you know, I'm like, you know, you keep the goal in the weekend anyway. I shook Greegs his hand and that was it. Now I sat back down and Greegs met someone else. In my mind, I was like, Greegs going to remember this. This is not my unit. Yeah. I mean, you boys know, even if you go to a manly game, you got a thousand people coming

43:55up to you and asking it. So obviously Greegs didn't remember that, but that was like my intro. Yeah. Yeah, I met you once. Ten years ago. Yeah. Remember when you came to Eddies and you shook my hand and he's like, no, I didn't say no like flat out. He was being nice. But yeah, it was just, I mean, that whole thing. I was just nervous the whole time. You're sitting down even eating with the boys. Yeah. What do you do? I'm talking to Wendell. Wendell was like the biggest thing on earth. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And how was I? It was my second room. I actually had my younger one. How much younger were you than everyone else? You wouldn't have been crazy young with certain, maybe Georgie Smith would have been Georgie Smith and Adam Fryer probably. Maybe Lottie. They're the same age. So they're two years above me. Yeah. But they played Super Rugby. They played Test. He played a line series. Lottie, you've come from Egypt and shit like that. We're not Asian. You're not the same. You're not the same. We're not the same breath. Well, this is the video we wanted to bring up here was again, you're a cult footballer

44:57in Canberra. Yeah. And then you are now talking to the queen. So, how did you explain the mascot to her Majesty Carve? I mean, like I know, it was a point of everything was good in any conversations. Yeah, everything was good. Vickerman, Gorg and Dell and you and the queen. We enjoyed it. Yeah. Yeah, first time for you coming up with a lot of experience, mate. That was great experience, obviously. Listen to me, I'm trying to sound cool. What more? You're just a kid, though. I know, but you're just trying to think the young you are, mate. That's a great experience. It's crazy. With Dell, with his double earrings and shit like, do you, do you feel like sympathy or like, no, I don't know, that's right. I'm sorry for that kid, but that kid, like how do you think about that kid in that moment? Like that, like, it's obviously amazing and it wouldn't experience it. Like, you don't feel sorry for you, but like, but on some level, being able to, like, what, you know, now as a father is an adult, like, what do you look like?

45:58Yeah. Oh, yeah, I mean, I wasn't ready for it. My first test was against England and at the time Eddie Jones had like a system for everything you did well, good clean out plus one, bad pass, minus one, mistackle, minus one. And then you'd come in and on your seat would be your score. So you, like normally for an 80 minute performance as a 10, you'd be around 74 to 80. Yeah, a really good game. You'd be in the 90s. I came in after my eight minutes against England and I was minus four. When you already don't feel like you belong, I just get it. I imagine reading that guy on off. Just go back to Cults and I read, well, I knew the score. I knew the score before I got the score. Yeah. I knew I'd had a shit game. Yeah. But sometimes I think reading it might just be like, oh, God. Oh, yeah, well, you want to get in there first. So I go in the meeting early, just to grab my cheetah paper, pick it up. Yeah, get used to it. But after the game, that game against England, when I had a shocker. I went on with eight minutes ago and went down by a point and we lose the game by a point.

47:02I didn't really help much, but Eddie Jones afterwards when we're turning up back at the T-Mote show, I'm old man's had a few beers like Leigh E. Boyle, I'll join himself. And once he games over, it's over. Like he's always been, he's pretty hard on me. If the game's going, once it's done, it's done. And then he got back and Eddie was like, where are you reckon? He said, he's fucking shit, mate. And when he's just gone, I didn't even hear it. And he was telling me this the next day. After bus head down, grab my bags, mum and dad wanting to celebrate and say, well, I know you got your cap on, I couldn't be more embarrassed. Yeah. I just wanted to get in my room and hard. But then afterwards, that said, but he will get better. And I didn't know that part. Then Eddie told me before the England game, the next week, that's our Italy game, the next week. So we played Italy at the time. They weren't as strong as they are now. So we had a good win. And I felt more comfortable that actually contributed to the group. But it wasn't until that next super season where I got to know all the boys.

48:02And I started playing games and actually contributing in games like they'd be games where I'd be getting man the match. So I'm like, oh, yeah, I feel like I belong there. Yeah. And then I just had to wait for my moment of I belong in the test arena. Was there anyone in particular that gave you more confidence than anyone else that you sort of belonged in the group? Was there anyone that took you under that wing almost? I mean, everyone was so good to me. But everyone was so welcoming. I think obviously George Gregan being someone that I looked up to for a long time, we went to the same school. He's small. I was a half back throughout all school until that one game where I got injured and moved to 10. Then I was seen as the 10 and 12. Is that right? I was a half back in my career. Yeah. Your whole career until that. Yep. I was talking before I was saying, you know, you know, we fucking had a couple of games at a half back in like some point. Do you agree? Yeah, that's great. Yes, that's the rest. And I did the end of season two at nine. Yes, we saw that. But so, so you played, you played basically no games at 10 until you until I played 10

49:06there, then getting ready for that end of season two in certain games, any at throw me at 12. Yeah. No, I fucking 12. And you also have an attack on me. I don't know if it's just at 12, aren't you? Like you still got big guys running out. Or is that? But anywhere I play, I'm going to have monsters at three. You look at a game plan and you're just like, okay, who they got? Okay, here's going to be easy yards. So mentally, each week, I knew that my defense had to be great. Yeah. Well, not great, but just the best that I could do. You know, and you're just carrying yourself for it. Yeah. So I knew that was going to happen. And send monsters. The one was carrying off a line out. That's what scared me. I'm like, I've never done a hit up my life. Ever. You scoot from dummy half, but that's if you see a little gap, that's about it. So yeah, just that was the first time that I'd actually played or trained at 12 was actually when I was playing for the wall of his. Did you play lead growing up as well? Yeah. Because you're old boy played. My man played for Wes and then East, then Raiders. And that's why we end up in Canberra. Okay, right. Right. How many games you play in total?

50:06Oh, gee, could have got 100 something. I don't want to gass him up too much. No, I don't want to overshoot it. No. Under shoot it for him, you know, like, yeah, you want to give him the run around. I'll give him a 150. Okay. But I know, like he played. So he was, he was at Wes for a while, like he's around the slapping the face days. So was it, did his mentality help you? Like just having, even just the way you were sort of describing before where it's like, he was comfortable to tell you if you played shit, but he also wasn't like holding you. He would, he would also be like, but he'll be better. Well, yeah, you'd love to get, you want to make him proud. And I think the old man like, e grew up like Western Sydney, same with mom, like they had a pretty humble tough upbringing. And now's was similar, like it wasn't, there was a lot of love in the family, but when it gets to sport, it's like, oh, I did this didn't go well. Well, I thought you kind of quit on that one. So it was almost like just around my attitude to always try. I think that was the only thing that didn't care about the result, but it's like you go and try your best. If I didn't, they would know. It's like me, I watch my kids now.

51:07He's like, I just couldn't catch him, dad. And he was a big boy. I was like, my seeing you run a lot quicker than that. Yeah. I got to know that you didn't want it. So I think it was just more around wanting it. Do you think there's benefit in that from like a having experienced it from your own parent? And then I think we're all more evolved than our own parents, even if it's only half a dead array. But you know, do you think there's benefit in like in that approach where it's like, I'm not going to indulge you here where you're like telling yourself a lie about like definitely. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Just because once you get older, say if they're going to lie to their boss or, I don't know, whatever they choose to do. Or there's going to be someone you can't make excuses. I don't think you try to line yourself though. Yeah, exactly. But if I agree with the kids, then you validate that. So I kind of see where my kid, where my dad was going. Yeah. So it was just more around effort. And then when I was first coming through league with the Howard Matthews and Raiders, like I got cut because I was smaller.

52:09Yeah. But at the time, I would kind of hide myself in behind the markers. I knew that I wasn't really having to make a tackle. So I'd work around and there were just ways that I would put myself in a safe position and dad knew it. And then he just called me out. And then from there, I then moved in a position where I had to be more accountable and add to the group. And then I felt like even though I was small, I could still do it. There was nothing to be scared of. And I feel like that was my kind of, I don't know, just the moment where I clicked for me because while I'm small, I can still contribute. And then a year or two later, behind everyone else, of course, I'd start to develop and get bigger. But I've still added to my skill set while I'm small about being able to think through a game. By the time I actually got bigger, a little bit stronger, still way smaller than everyone else. But I'd already thought my way through a game that it helped me a lot more, I believe, by being smaller. There's also like, there's no shortage pun nut intended of small people to be able

53:12to look to for like inspiration. Like in terms of it's being small is not, does not rule you out of being able to be like and being able to defend against these absolute animals. Like Jeff Tuffy was some of the, I always see like, right now we like these tiny guys on the field against Goliaths and they were, they'd fucking feed them. They'd feed them and it was like, yes, you are at a disadvantage. Yes, it is going to be I assume significantly more intimidating than if you pull Harry and calm down Cody. But if you watch Tooth's play, how tough was it? You put yourself in that position. You've got to be as tough. Yeah. I'm not that tough. I said there wasn't, there wasn't a lot of inspiration to look towards. You've got greets or Ricky Stewart, you can't remember. Yeah. Go to the smaller boys. But that didn't seem realistic enough for me at that point. You're right. Until you actually, you get to meet them. But yeah, there wasn't a lot like when I first came through and especially the Brumbies 2003 when I was moved, well, when I was picked at Senna because I suddenly turned into

54:14a center. Everyone, both centers were at least a hundred kilos, maybe one ten, Yutano among us, Mappasua's, Mata Nonu was coming through at that point. They were considered like the normal centers. And what would you have weighed back there? When I first went to the wall, it would be 2777. 7777. I finished my career at 87. I didn't have a real lot of fat either way. Maybe more puppy fat than when I was first coming through. But I put on ten kilos and I was still, ten kilos a mass, but I'm still tiny. Yeah, you're not getting. So 70s, you're dimensioned in that. So much changing. It was like like the queen. Like what was that? Was it, like, did you, did you know the queen got taller? Is it, no, what I mean is like, didn't mean as much to you as it might mean to like someone who's a bit older, who's like, oh, fuck, it's a queen. Like were you a bit, were you, were you a overroadered by that situation? I'm not big on like the raw family. My wife and that loves my wife loves the raw family. My mom and her name's Elizabeth named after the queen. Okay. It meant more to them, but I knew the significance, like it's a big deal.

55:16It was still really cool to meet her. But it was just like, I was as nervous meeting her as I was having breakfast with the boys. Yeah. Yeah. Like that whole tour was five weeks to just be nervous. Were you just sitting on the floor? What the fuck is going on? Yeah. Why'd you piss your able to just muck around with the boys and then the next day you've got anxiety because you're like, what? I'm not a sad one right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Out of like talking to myself up. Like some crazy period. Do you think about that much? I got to run to the bathroom. Just keep talking. Yeah, you go for it. Like in the sense that you were playing cults, you were 77 kilos. You've been picked on a wallabies sill. You're meeting the queen. You're hanging out with your heroes, Greg Gage. George Greg and other like, what do you think about how while that time was over? Or was he sort of just... I think now you realize there's a pretty big risk from any, you know, like... Yeah. To pick me. And it was a risk for everyone involved, I suppose. But it was crazy. I don't know. It's not something I think about often, but it was... Everything happened so quick.

56:17So it was almost like that happened. I came back and then usually wallabies get that period, like a little holiday period off before after Christopher should come back and join the Super Rugby team. Eddie told me, but I know it in the right. And he's like, you're going back and you've got to train. You've got to work on your game and I was like, you have course. I didn't even have a super team. So I came back, so I'm with the Brums, then started training with them straight away. But yeah, it was just... I mean, it was a wild time. Then after that, we're into Super Rugby. I've gone to probably one of the best franchises. Franchises, yeah. It's all the russwell crusaders at the point at that time. So we were a chance of winning. We made the semis that year. We then had the World Cup. I made that team. We made it to the final. It all just happened so quick then 2004. I get a little break to then before we win the title. And then I'm up in a way. You know, like you can't... You can't even... Everything's gone. I didn't really have time to process how crazy it was.

57:19But it was... It was mental. These boys even just playing cards with Wendell. It's almost like it's $5. We're playing Bletchac, flip it over. And I'm up 40 bucks. I'm thinking, that's... I gotta get out. I can't afford to play too much longer. But with Del, if he loses, the game keeps going. The game keeps going until double or nothing. Double or nothing, double or nothing. It's back to nothing. Okay, let's play for a hundred bucks. He wins that hand. Oh, and I'm out of time. Yeah. But that was Del, like, so it was like... So you said before you ruined Del. I did ruined Del. How old were you when you were in with Big Del? Ah, 19, I think. It's so funny. He would have... I don't know how old Del would have been then, but like, he was Wendell for sale. He was Big Del. He was Big Del. Yeah. But that was him. There's almost like some sort of thing where it's like, you're so young, it's like, this is almost irresponsible putting you in a room with Wendell Seller. I couldn't talk to you. He couldn't even put music on. I played Michael Jackson once when we came back.

58:20He's, oh, he said Big Del's on when he's outside. He heard Big Del chills. I'm like... Oh, no. Oh, I'm not. I'm not too just trying to get to know the big man. Like, it's... I'm just gonna scare it myself. Oh, vote a phone with sponsoring it at the time. So I got a phone, I never phone. They gave his credit. So I'm texting my boys back. I'm with Wendell. What's he like? He's an asshole. Right? He's not that guy that you see. Yeah. But it was just like, yeah, when we were roomed together, he's just like, Big Del in the room. Like, when he gets out, that's for the people. In here, it's just for himself. So I was like, even that whole week was so slow. We couldn't do anything. There's no fun in there. Really? Well, you don't have Netflix, you don't have all that stuff. No, yeah, yeah. And Big Del's... You're doing it right there. You're just spending most of your time in your room in those sort of environments. So you are literally just sort of like sitting there with Big Del. Oh, where do I go? Who do I call? What room do I ring to say? Boys, you want to go get coffee? Yeah. We didn't even drink coffee at the time. And Grease and Matt Berks, they said, Oh, you want to get a coffee? I was like, oh, yeah.

59:22They've been drinking for forever. A espresso for me, it tastes like dog shit. First time you first time you try and impress someone by having a coffee with them, you're like, this is poison. For the fuck. What are we doing? Shit. This is disgusting. Yeah, I mean, that... But everyone was so like they're trying to include me. Everyone bought Del. Everyone bought Del. They were with Big Del. Big Del, Big Del does what he wants. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. I hate to bring it up, but I saw that... There was a video you did a couple of years ago. I said, the year's still out and watched Johnny Wilkinson's... Oh, yeah, we're gonna watch it. No, we're not gonna watch it. We're not gonna watch it. I don't wanna watch it either. But I wanted to know, have you watched it since and how long did it take for you to bring it up when you're at too long? Or did he not at all? And this is why he's an asshole. He's never brought it up. Like for me, I'm always like, oh, mate, tell us about it. You're right. Tell us about that one. But after watching him, what I will say, he's like, after watching him try and play with him for five years, he hit it with his wrong foot. But if he missed it, it would have been lucky

1:00:23because he practices that often that he would make those kicks. So it would have been more lucky for him to miss. So nine out of 10. So I can kind of... I would love to have a World Cup medal. Well, and not a silver. I got two silver. I'd love to have a gold, but at least I know that it was off-harb work and he'd kinda... He had earned it. And he didn't bring it up. There you go. That's why he's an asshole though. I agree with you. That's a fucking real... Because he went for me to say... To move, too, Dio. You mean to say, oh, mate. Let's, like, at least make fun of me for it. Yeah, put me down. But if he doesn't bring it up, then the Frenchies will as well. When they were, oh, oh, Matt, ask Johnny. That's not my... You boys were out. Yeah, you're out in the second. He's pretty miss you out. Yeah, yeah, shut up, mate. Yeah. Yeah, say, no, he never brought it up ever. But, I mean, that whole experience was... It's also, like, when I came in because the Walleries were so dominant at that period, when I lost the World Cup, I was upset.

1:01:25I was like, oh, fuck it all went in four years' time. Well, you got such a good team. Well, yeah, the next... Oh, that was such pure times. Yeah. Like you were saying... You were like... You're like the through line from the great days all the way through to... Yeah, you are. To the death. I know what the death along. Is that what you're saying? Well, that's no. We were a bit more of a positive now. No, that's not true. You're more of been more romantic about how many seasons you've seen. Oh, yeah. It was brought all... You know, where you can go, like, oh, yeah, I knew a guy that played with Brad. Yeah. Yeah. You came from like this, that you were a part of the great years and you're a part of the lean years. Yes. But the lean years weren't... That's not to put the lean years on you. We're not blaming you for the lean years. I can say how you thought that's what I was saying. That's what I was saying. I was more... I don't know why you were saying that. You've been around the block, you see. You're an asshole, mate. That was just so gross. Yeah, that's... That's tough to bring on. No, that's really fucked up. You should've done that. No, no, I'm sorry, mate. I shouldn't have done that. I feel like Johnny Vulganson now. Especially someone that's done a prep. You said you did your research. Did you prep and feel like you're still... No, I wasn't. Did you disagree with my trainer?

1:02:25No, I think I brought the... No, I'm not. I'm just joking. What was... One of us is before, but like, when you were an already established footballer and then you're like your quads and you're currently in the world, you're gender kind of sort of coming through, where you... Did you feel threatened in that? Like, is it... What's that feel like? Because they felt like a new wave. Yes. Yeah, well, they were like, they come through as social media was happening. These guys were like, the pioneers. Yeah. They... Like Quaid did a press conference and just said, I'll answer your questions on Twitter. Like, you did one for the wall of his own. Yeah. I remember that. Yeah, he went in and he just said, look, something about I'm gonna answer your questions on Twitter. But it was just like, it was like, it's a new generation. Did they are annoying at all the new generation? Definitely. Because you don't understand it. Yeah. But once you got to training, once you're used to all playing together, you... There was no... I didn't feel threatened in any way because I kind of liked the energy that young kids would bring.

1:03:27Ideas that they'd have and they'd get you up for training. Are you sympathetic as well because you kind of were that guy? Not with that. Well, they played suit, but they had so many wraps. Like, I was pulled from nowhere, like, I currently had been this great schoolboy phenomenon for so long. I remember currently when he was 16, came and stayed, came up to Coss Harbour when the Wall of his World Base in Coss and I was room with him. Oh, she's closing everything. So this is lovely. I've got this white fellow washing my clothes and it is a 16 year old boy. So I kind of knew, as in like, he had a pathway coming through. Everyone knew how great this kid was. So he was eventually gonna be a Wall of B. Yeah. I came from nowhere. I didn't even know anyone. At least currently, Quaid, Rabs came together. They know each other. Yeah. So I didn't feel sympathy for him. They were great talented players. The issue that I had was, if they were late, like standard stuff like that, you come through, like I was explaining earlier, with George Gregan,

1:04:27they would, you know, Steven Larkin, Selim Wattluck, Todd Ikef who you could name, the whole team, but they're the keeper of standards. So if I disappoint the players, I feel terrible. Coach, you know, like, you obviously want to impress a coach, but the respect I want is from my peers. Yeah. So you just, they would keep the standards and then it just transitions. When they finished in 2007, we now pick up myself, Warry George Smith, we now start to drive the standards with the guys that have been around. But then Robbie said to me, when I had a go at him at train, I was like, no, he's supposed to be here, or this is the play we practice at, he's like, there's none of that here. Everyone is on the same level playing field. And, you know, you don't, there's no seniors, there's no juniors, we're just all together to make him feel comfortable. Right. And belong here, which I feel is a mistake. And then like a lot of the standards dropped. And the boys, not to fucking, but the boys, those, those to make a particular, like went through some, Oh, they were the first ones to tell you.

1:05:28Yeah. Yeah. They, they were able to get away with murder. Yeah. So there's a, myself, Selim Wattluck, that were discarded in that period, there's, there's more. Um, but we felt like, if I can say like for a meeting, what is this like? So then we start to get a bit of angst. And it's not at the players, it's more with that Robbie, tell us we can't say anything. Yeah. Like if they don't know, it's not my boys. My eldest, he'll do something, and my youngest will follow, whether it's right or wrong, often it's wrong. Yeah. But that's how you learn. Yes. So when I come in, after training, Greggs and Bernie had been doing stretching and triggering and whatever else, and I'm like, well, these boys are way older than me. If they're doing it, I need to do it. Yeah. So that's how you learn. Um, so that was, that was the only tough kind of period there. Well, you couldn't say anything or pick them up on any fuck ups I had, you know? Now, Eddie, I want to take us to our legendary moments, powered by the Toyota Tundra. Um,

1:06:29now gets, I'm interested to hear from you. Because you've had so many legendary moments, you've had Super Rugby wins, you've had World Cup finals, obviously, you know, I've seen you shirtless, like you've had legendary moments. You've meant the quain, you've roamed with Dell, yeah. Whether there's something for you, not that necessarily you define yourself legendary, but for you, the thing that meant, that meant the most to you from a legendary moment over the course of your stellar career. Um, uh, this is tough because, you, like you taught yourself up, no one really respects that. So, um, but I think, uh, without talking about a game, I think the fact that, uh, I got the opportunity to come back and play for the walleries under the Giro Law, which drew Mitchell thinks is a drew, Mitchell Law. He did try and jumping on that. Weas on 61 caps. I was on 92 at the time when, yeah, check abroad it in and the criteria was the meat 60 caps. Yeah. So I kind of understand his argument,

1:07:30but yeah, I think that opportunity to come back, um, being overseas when you couldn't actually play for your country or your overseas. So for that law to get introduced, it was probably something that met a lot to me, because my kids had never seen me play. They were born over in France, both when born in France. Well, actually my third one was born here in Australia, but the two boys were born in France, and they got to see me play for my country. Um, and then the first time that we played Fiji was round one in the World Cup, and that was my first game since leaving Australia. I remember pulling him over the fence and just sharing that moment, walking around the field, kissing my wife. I don't know. That was just, wasn't so much like a legendary moment or something special about me, but it just means a lot to me and the family and something that they still remember now, sir. That's awesome. That is not. That is so sick. Yeah. I love that. And then you obviously go on this mad run, make the final. Yeah, then we go on, make the final, uh, 20 minutes, get knocked out, but that the start of it,

1:08:30was definitely legendary. The, the ending, not so much. Well, but, you know, no, but it's just, it was, it was a beautiful time for Australian rugby. That, that, that Gidellal started something really cool. Well, I think even when we were overseas, after the semifinal, when we won it, and there were pictures back here of the Sydney Opera House lit up in green and gold with a wall of be there. Yeah. It was almost like the country's getting behind us, like that had a real powerful, um, meaning for all of us. And we felt really proud to play for our country at that point, because you don't realize once you're overseas, you don't know the support you're getting. Yeah. Until people send stuff or do things, but then when we'd qualified for the final and to see that on the opera house, that was pretty special. And the beauty of the world cup is that it, like, it does drag in the casual or the former, like the, the, the, you might have the disgruntled rugby fan or the casual, but like, mad as if the national interest said, as we've always said, that's right. The unites everyone. Like, you're nice, the nation. I don't care what you're doing. If you're doing it for Australia, shout out to the Finnska Rooze right now.

1:09:32Hell yeah. We're playing Finnska for the nation. Oh, I was about to talk about that. Well, I know you were. I had to cut you off before I went not yet. Yeah. But mad as a national interest, it is nice. And I can only imagine what it would be like to like be on a foreign land and look back and see the country fully getting behind you. Yeah. I mean, it adds a bit of pressure, but it does give a bit of pride, especially for me, I'd been out of the game internationally for such a long time, that to play even to get my kit, my wallowies kit, was special for me, which I nearly got in trouble for posting a photo because I added our shoes and we'll sponsor my Hasics, but there's 15 things you got one. That's a nice, that's a nice, an innocent mistake. You can tell me how sweet wasn't knocking England out. They couldn't have been anything better. We just wanted to watch one more video. You'll see, this is just you had a thought it was your sternum rooted. No, I got absolutely crushed, not maybe the play before. So we got a penalty. You were known for it for a dive though.

1:10:33You know, I know. No, so I got caught up in the moment. This is pure Giro dive. This is pure. I love it. Yeah, could have. You could watch when I caught the ball at the 20 meter mark. My legs were filled with so much like it. Look at the arm swing there. I was just so lucky that I had four chase me and not a wing. I don't get there. But yeah, that was so special because the week before they played Wales in their home World Cup and Wales, it's called, it could have been two tries back to back to beat them in this, in the first game. So then we knew that they had pressure on them. So we like, we just got to start fast. We started fast. Our two plays that we practice off a line out. Yeah, you've always got like get your dick hard type plays. Yes, we had two of those plays that were supposed to just in our repertoire to call throughout the game. Torrent side of that they were the first two plays we called and they come off. You know, as being a first 15 legend, thank you very much. I was arrived at that very often these as a seven.

1:11:35These set plays, the same one get your dick hard plays as in any time. Wherever you go, the wall will be. Seven often would pass a lot of those plays for the dick hard play. Yes. But both of ours won. Both of them worked and we're up 14,000. Crab was quiet. We knew that so much pressure home World Cup. So it was, um, that was the San Virgis era, right? Yeah, it was. So Sammy got a yellow card for taking Hoops's head off, but who didn't get a card? I think was Owen Farrell when he cut me in half. So that was the play like 10 minutes earlier. We called for Owen Farrell's public lynching because of that, that play. We were a fewer Saturday. I don't remember seeing the calling. No, long time ago. Long time ago. We weren't as big on social media. Yeah. Long time ago. Long time ago. Um, the final though, just I felt in that final New Zealand, obviously great side, great country. We're half-cute. I felt before you got K.O. I felt like we were on.

1:12:36I felt on. Am I right in that estimation? I felt like we were on. I don't know if you're going to be right or wrong. Of course, I don't know. I think we were on. I think we were on. I think we're on. Well, that morning when, because I was rumored, Drew, obviously you got your rumies and like we looked at each other and we sit like, yeah, this sounds a little bit weird, but we didn't look into each other's eyes or kiss or whatever, but it's all like there was it. We were mainly when we said like tonight, we might be world champions, you know? You said that. Yeah, like I firmly believe that that night, we just go out during the game. Obviously, there's a lot of work that needs to happen. There's so many, like the all blacks probably 12 with their 15 would go down the Hall of Fame. Yeah. They'll make Hall of Fame for rugby. So they had a good team, but we were on such a role and the confidence that we had in our group, I thought, and I believe that we're going to be world champions. Yeah. We didn't. And I became the biggest loser. And it was like, it was just for me, the hardest part was that I couldn't compete because I got,

1:13:39got dazed or sparked is how I liked to describe it. I got up too quick and I went into the all blacks defensive line, which is fine because I didn't want to get in way of the. Loverly, I'm getting the out of the rugby ball, but you always got an independent doctor. So you've got an independent doctor that because if I've got a Aussie doctor there, you're going to say, yeah, you sweetly go on. Kiwi doctor is going to say, no, you can't do it independent doctor. And they said, we're not going to test you had a look at the footage. And so I didn't even get the opportunity, but I remember all. There's an opportunity to do. I didn't even do it. You're just out. She just said, I've looked at the footage. We're not even going to test you. So the fact that you may have come good now, but I remember all of it. I understand their reasoning. No, I get it. But in my mind, I know exactly what happened. Retail ex elbow there sparked me out. I got up, I was in the wrong area. Then I joined that side of the line. Then there was a break in play. I don't know what happened on my left, but I took a knee then. So do I. And everyone played. That was a giveaway. That's what I showed up to.

1:14:39I didn't make it. I'm going to fuck you up. It is. I wonder though, would you as a former player, but like obviously head knocks and everything is his intent, but like, would you support a like big game clause? Where you like within reason, if it's a World Cup final, you're playing. If it's a World Cup final, like I know I fucking am can cast, but like let me, let me go. Well, you're not going to cast twice. I like you already can. I can give it was my son, no, but me definitely like to bring me out there. I did. That one though, I wasn't in cast. It's hard to really say to the doctor that I wasn't, but I remember coming off, they didn't even test me. I grabbed my head gear, check came down because it was close to half time. And I threw my head gear at check. It said, make me a test. And he just couldn't, it couldn't happen. He just said, make a shout out. We got to move on. So if that didn't happen, we win. No, we might have lost by falling. And then we're having this discussion like, well, you've already spoken about it.

1:15:39How I brought the game down. No, you didn't. No, you didn't. You were all the way down. So to fight back on, we lose it. We lose by a big margin. Is that what you're saying? You should belt the camera and say to tell your old mate Dan Carter that you would have won that final. You know what they say? You need to come on the show. They desperately in a new and falls on that game. We were a lot stronger. Your rugby podcast, Coco show. Yep. You drew, swore the prof. And Tommy, Tommy's getting a cup of water. Tommy's your producer, right? Tommy's fucking roasted the fuck out of me though. And I love him. Is it like when you guys come in a podcast last time and he does his little intros? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, no, no, no. Hey, I'm saying I like Tommy. He fucking he buried me. What are these? I can't remember. I can't remember. It was like, you know what he is. He's a good. Hi, gee, he goes hard on the keyways. He loves them. Well, we're half K way. I gotta be honest. Well, you should have told him that. Well, I didn't know that he was hard on the keyways.

1:16:41No, no, no, no, like he loves the keyways. No, that's what I mean. I didn't know he got hard for him. Oh, he got hard. I thought he said hard on. I thought you said he got hard for him. Well, he does get hard for him. Yeah. But he's not hard on them. No, he's not hard on him. Well, he gets a hard on for them. There we go. There we've got it. There's an old black Yeti mug behind you. The old black sentence is a bunch of shit the other day. We're sort of exploring our heritage. This is not what we're talking about. This isn't part of my question. Get to the point, man. No, I like it. It's talking the fucking old, I gotta fucking acknowledge it. Yeah. I always, when you drew and so it would come in through, you guys seemed like you were destined for media roles eventually, right? You all ended up playing so long that like the landscape of the media changed where you didn't need to go the conventional path. I know that the boys did a little bit with Stan and you were getting through it. Yeah, through it exactly. Yeah, yeah. But the Coco, the Coco is such a perfect avenue for the three of you with Prof and Tommy, but like,

1:17:42and it's such a success. What's your experience been like coming into media in this different way from what we all grew up, the media sort of path being? Yeah, well, I mean, new boys, I wouldn't know. You push what you want to push. So if something's out there that you've said, it's how you've said it, you know, like, so we've got our own little avenue to push the game. The biggest, the Genesis, I did a thing for rugby passing Japan where we did interview all, I was with Willie Gennia and we would interview expats that come over to Japan. You know, Ryan Croady and that, Justin Colby, you just say, you know, what brought you here? Talks about that. It was so easy. Just like we're chatting here, there was no question, we had one guy there, there was the anchor that would ask questions, and then we just chip in when we want. I then text through, I thought, I brought this, I enjoyed this, like, connecting with the boys, you're still connected to the game,

1:18:43but you ask what you ask. Like, you don't ask what you think other people want to know or, you know, the question that you don't know about it. It's the way you can ask questions or the type of questions, right? Because it's your own thing and it's an internet show, technically. Yes, which is where Swoop comes in, and these questions will be about four minutes. He'll give you the back story. Why is asking that question? How he thinks you're probably gonna answer it? And then the question. I've got a bit of that in it. I do, yeah. I've got a bit of that, I reckon. I fucking drag out a question. Are you feeling sensational today? Oh, thank you. That's a nice thing to say. That's really nice, thank you. That's a nice thing to say. Does anyone like this playing shit? Where that question he asked? Oh, yeah, can you believe that? Can you believe that? No, I know. Wait, rugby? No, yeah. Do you reckon you're the reason Australian rugby is fucking... When shit happens? Are you ready? Are you re-framing that? I don't know, that's our last. No, I don't know. You were. That was fucked up. Why are you re-framing that? We all felt it, dude. Why? Man, Tobler looked at us and we were like, oh, that was fucked. Cut that, cut that, cut that.

1:19:44Why told you not to ask it before? I don't know. I don't know what a great sense of mind. Listen, mate, we were, we were gameed that beforehand. And we were gameless shit out of that. I didn't say that. Paces right who's asking this question. No, you can tell by my style. I didn't fucking do that. Are you organised to Uba? He's asking that right. I got him a fucking nice, alright, right in here, mate. I made Lexus too. Yeah, I didn't want to get you that either. I wanted to get you this shit one. That's what I was doing. I said look where he's taking the game. I looked where it was. I looked where it got to. Yeah, that guy fucking... Yeah, Honda, mate. You can ride. Get him on the electric bike. Yeah, you can. Get him on the electric bike. Yeah. What do you mean, nice walk? Beautiful area. Yeah, that's a great part of town, mate. Yeah, it's just scheduled time for us. Once I spoke to Drew, he just said, okay, we're all like, I know, I'll talk to a prof and he knew prof Tommy. And then we just brought the swoop in, but it's just, I like that it's scheduled time for us. So I'll get there early and we try and make an effort to get there well before we record

1:20:44and we have a couple of beers and we just talk shit for a bit. Then we talk about the game. But I like, we try and talk about the positivity of the game, like what's right with the game? You know, like everyone's saying, oh, you're saying the Wallerby's eight is seven out of 10 on a lot of the comments. That's bullshit, you're just protecting your mates. We got up the game. Yeah. The game needs positivity. Yeah. There's also, there's enough channels or places where there's hyper criticism of the game generally. Oh, most places. Most places. And it's not like everyone. It's not like it's critical every time, but it is a place where criticism is, like they're comfortable to fucking to be critical. What is nice about this is it's a super light fun rugby space? Well, we don't try and dissect the game. How they're going to win it? If there's something that we bring up, which is potentially negative or just something that we feel they can do better, we offer a solution. Yes. But we would do this right or wrong. It could be wrong.

1:21:44It could be, we could be well off. But at least we're offering a solution. You have so many people that'll just say, oh, this is shit, the wall is a shit. I can't remember how would you improve them? Yeah. They have no idea. And you're also guys, it's easy to say. It's got a lot of friends, like you get your view, it's like it's a global rugby show. You're honestly like, you got like over 100,000 subscribers on YouTube. Yeah. I don't know. Right. Like that's just a, I just wanted to, I just want to admit, like it's a fucking huge show. 100,000 subscribers is insane. I reckon 99,000 on a South African. Well, really that love it. Your boy, Strap is South African flaggy. Oh, yes. Welcome back to our sport. Yes. Look. That was it. Yeah. It's a fun and uncle is a fucking fun way. Yeah. No, do we say half-care we half-south African? Yeah. That's where you need to go. But you get, you get such great guests on as well, like it's such a fun show. Yeah, I think the beauty of playing for as long as we all did.

1:22:46And in every part of the world, like we all went to France, myself and Swoop went to Japan, myself and Swoop played in America, but you've just threw out your career if you're a decent enough fella. You've got good mates, you know? Like I'd be similar for you guys with what you do. Like everything you do, we know obviously, Manly, I've drawn through. But everyone can see that you care for the game is there, but you care about Manly as well. Whereas other teams, that's why it's all other league players that you're able to get the reach and get on. Come on, because you speak so well of the game and you promote the game so well. So that's what we try to do. So when we first started, we said, what do we want it to look like? And we were like, basically, we just want it. Us three, Prof obviously, going to ask the question. You shout out to Prof. who's the Wrangle three fucking. You're a rep or a dance. Well, we wrote the game that long and he knows nothing about it. Yeah. He's made, he's good.

1:23:46He's good. He's really good. Yes, I think he's great because he understood like there's questions where we'll talk potentially in footy language. Yeah. And he's like, hang on a minute. What is rolling around the corner, man? Yeah, yeah. It was all like defensively. If you hit there, you get a roll around the corner. He said, I may be the only one, but just let me know in the comments, if rolling around the corner wasn't clear for you. It was so many people that clicked on rolling around the corner wasn't clear. So there's obviously an avenue. It's actually a benefit to have someone there who's not as far as well. But I think what we wanted it was basically like we're at a pub and we're talking about the game and people can listen, you know, like that's... And you enjoy it? I love it. Yeah. I mean, the drives are more like... Are you driving up for it? It's just better. You know, there's a delay when you drive in. Yeah, you're in a train. Rugby's flying, fucking, and you really get Robbie Danes to book your flight up. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think that might be a little tougher. It's a lot better in person. Way better. Yes, definitely. So it's just on the Monday drive up, drive back. I love it.

1:24:47When I'm there, I never regret driving out. Yeah. It's good fun. You're drinking, schedule time, like the boys. Yeah. It's just like everyone else has that drive 30 minutes and I've got 37 hours. Three in a half hours. But I make the same day. Yeah, I go up and that. Huge. Unless we've got something where... It's like this, but tomorrow... Yeah. Throughs got us a little gig, so I'll stay the night. And that makes things a bit easier. Mate, like, honestly, we could have fucking kept yarn and I know you got shit to do and we really appreciate you coming up. Like, it's been as fun as I would have hoped. But we could have kept yarn. Wait, honestly, I said, when we'll communicate and I love this part, I need you to do it. Thanks, mate. hilarious. So I easily make the effort for you. Well, let me do part two. Yeah, I wouldn't get to. Yeah, okay. And also, we want to do it. This is a dream of ours. And it's, you know, this is a place where you can share dreams with your mates. Well, I think it's important to... Well, it's important to share dreams. There's a place where you share them is to get you and draw and sweep and we do a live stream of a wallowies game

1:25:48and we sit in and we just... Oh, mate, that's good. Like, we just sit in here. We're getting a golf simulator here. I don't know if you play golf. You don't need to. Don't need to. I don't. Yeah. But this is where the golf simulator will be and then this is where we'll live stream and we sit here and we just watch the boys get to work. At some point, they're not to this in future. That's our dream. Well, let's work it out. Let's push it out. Okay, good. Just wanted to let you know our dream and then we can just... Probably see what one bled is low in Sydney. It doesn't make any... We do, but is there a reciprocal one in New Zealand? That'd be a nice time. That's not where we're thinking, right? Like, we've all... And also, like, it doesn't need... If it doesn't work out that it's in 2026, 2027 ripe for the pick. You know what happens. It's like when you get a gift voucher. You've got three years to use. No, you're right. You never use it. It's a 2026. Yeah, it's gotta be this year. It's gotta be this year. Has to be. We'll find a date. We'll work it out. We'll find some. Yes, it works. Thanks, man. Thank you, man. Could you just not talk anymore?