"A celebration of, for and by Donald Trump"

0:00Listen to your favorite MS now shows anytime as a podcast. Enjoy new episodes of Morning Joe, Deadline White House and The Rachel Maddo Show. Every small, deep, democratic muscle that we have is flexing. Plus the last word with Laurence O'Donnell, the beat with Ari Melber, The Weeknight, and more. On the go, wherever you get your podcasts, for ad-free listening to all of your favorite shows, subscribe to MS now Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hi there, everyone. It's Forkark in New York. It's not like we have to tell you today's the day. You can feel it excitement in the air, so thick. You can almost breathe it in, a swell of anticipation crackling throughout the atmosphere. The very best, most talented that our country has to offer, prepared to perform for a throng of eager supporters before the weather gets too cold and things really matter. We are, of course, talking about the start of the new NFL season tonight.

1:02Apologies if the words at the bottom of your screen led you to believe we were talking about something else. All in good fun. Know what Americans are really paying attention to this afternoon is what's happening right now in Dallas, Texas, where some big-name Democrats, office holders, and hopefuls alike are converging with the expressed intent of speaking and engaging directly with voters there. One delegation in particular includes members of Congress, men and women, viewers of this program will recognize Congressman Garcia and Crow, Congresswoman Dean, Illinois Governor, JP Pritzker, is there as well. James Talleriko, the Texas candidate for the Senate, is also in Dallas. The epicenter of a statewide, love-thigh neighbor food drive, our MS now colleague, Chris Jansing, spoke to him a short time ago. Yeah, we're going to go everywhere and talk to everyone. What are they telling you? Everyone is focused on this economy, everywhere I go. Including Republicans. I mean, high gas prices, high grocery prices, high prescription drug costs, that doesn't just hurt Democrats,

2:05doesn't just hurt independence, it also hurts Republicans too. And so I've said that we're all getting screwed. Whether you're a little more conservative or a little more progressive, we're all getting screwed by the people at the top who are accumulating wealth and power for themselves at our expense. Now as far as today's truly newsworthy live events are concerned, that it does about cover it. Over the sake of your awareness, we should tell you what Republicans are doing in Dallas this afternoon. But they're calling a midterm convention, although that is a misnomer. They don't have any official party business to address nor any formal votes to cast. So it's rather unconventional in that way. No, less than eight weeks to go ahead of the midterms, a few Republicans will soon begin, will can be described as a celebration of foreign by Donald J. Trump. In addition to the privilege of hearing him speak twice in two days, attendees will be provided the opportunity, for example, to take a photo with him, reportedly for the sum of $86,000 to do that.

3:06If they want more, they want face-to-face time, they can pay to attend a round table with Trump. They hand over a quarter of a million dollars if they want to do that. As on top of the $25,000 it costs just to be the convention in the first place. Assault in the wound is this. Trump is historically unpopular right now, politically toxic, really. There's approval as subterranean. And more than a few Republicans running for office this fall would like to distance themselves from Donald Trump. This week's GOP attendance figures in Dallas are evidence in up of that. Or if you're partial to Oman's or metaphors earlier this afternoon, the emergency slide went off aboard the Air Force one that was gifted to Donald Trump by the Qataris. Apparently it inflated prior to takeoff. Makes this next quote all the more believable. A person close to the White House went so far as to suggest to Politico that quote, the vibes are very bad in Texas right now. Quote, hopefully nobody notices the embarrassing show.

4:06I don't think it will matter. No one knows about it. No enthusiasm. And it's during football, only DC people care. So while all the people who got angry at bad money is super bowl half time performance, gathered to hear Donald Trump talk about himself for a couple of hours this evening. The other 99% of Americans, Democrats and Republicans alike will go about their Wednesday nights watching this network or the NFL or anything other than that convention. That's where we start today with some of our most favorite reporters and friends. My friend and colleague, Chief Political reporter, Chris Jassing is on the ground for us in Dallas, also joining us political analysts, former Senator Claire McCaskill is here for the hour, and former DHS Chief of Staff during Donald Trump's first term miles, Taylor's here. He is also in Dallas with the Epstein files exhibit at Congress and Robert Garcia. And advocates for transparency have brought to Dallas right in front of Donald Trump. Chris Jassing, you've been talking to really the man of the hour, James Talleriko.

5:07Tell me what else he had to say to you. For him, Donald Trump coming to Dallas, Texas is the great compare and contrast. It gives him an opportunity for counter programming. And take a look, these are folks who have been here for hours, they're finishing up packing. And what are they packing? We can come over here. They have collected across the state 20,000 pounds of groceries as opposed to, as James Talleriko told me, the 20 or $25,000 that people are paying to go over the other side of town and be at the convention, as you called it, the other thing about it, oh, and here's some more people packing up. You can see that they've got the Talleriko for Texas and love their neighbor shirts. It gives him an opportunity to talk about the cost of everything, how high prices are, and how much food banks are having trouble needing the need as prices go up and up and up. So for James Talleriko, this is a day to talk about

6:10what Donald Trump hasn't done, what Ken Paxton hasn't done, and then we're already coming out here, and we're seeing folks who are working in the Texas heat. Now, if you know the Texas heat, load it up, and getting these things on these big bands, they're gonna go all across Texas. How's the heat up there in the truck? It's great, I mean, it's great. Texas, Texas. I love it when they say it's Texas. It's a dry heat. The other thing that we learned about today is the number of people who have come out, they've contacted James Talleriko. They're Republicans, they're registered Republicans. They ran for office as Republicans, but they don't want anything to do with Ken Paxton. The word we keep hearing is corruption. Take a listen to a conversation I had with one of those folks. So why are you here? Well, because I'm a Republican, I'm not a MAGA Republican. I'm an old school Reagan Republican, and I believe personal integrity means things.

7:10And so I support people that have good personal integrity, and I like James Talleriko, and he is the kind of guy we need in office. And not Ken Paxton? Definitely not Ken Paxton. Like I said, I think we need perfect people with personal integrity. My father taught me personal integrity is what you do when you think nobody's watching. And we know what Mr. Talleriko's opponent will do when nobody's watching. So I think we need people that are willing to represent their constituents and not just their donors. Some incredible reporting from my friend and colleague, Christi Ann Singh there. I want to pull that thread with you, Miles, about corruption. This is something that Republicans have said privately for a really long time. It is now spilling into public from Republicans who are willing to go on television as that Republican did with Christi Ann Singh and differentiate themselves from MAGA by claiming the mantle of Ronald Reagan and saying, I'm against this brand of Republicanism because of the corruption. Like Q exhibit 1,462, Toglantia speaking

8:14at this convention, Toglantia shouldn't even be there. If DOJ is doing what DOJ has done, certainly since the Watergate reform set in and arguably even before that. But also someone who is associated with what you're there drawing attention to, the lack of transparency around the Epstein files. Well, you know, Chris was talking about how Tallariko's out there discussing the higher prices and the cost of Donald Trump's economy, here at the Trump Epstein reading room, we're talking about the cost of corruption. All 3.5 million files are here printed bound behind me at this pop up memorial reading room, Nicole. And there's more than a dozen Epstein survivors here. Congressman Garcia was just walking around in here. I think we'll have James Tallariko here tomorrow. People are realizing that the tide is turning here because of the issue of corruption. Now, in the first place, I mean in Dallas, where Donald Trump is literally his party has had trouble feeling the seats at the arena.

9:17But I think more significant is the fact that those people you mentioned are here in Dallas. Donald Trump spent his first year scaring off his enemies into the dark and intimidating them. Now they are here in Dallas. His foes are in Dallas and his friends aren't showing up. And if that tells you anything about Donald Trump's diminished influence, it should because that's what's happening across this country. 89% of Americans according to Gallup now believe their government is corrupt. That is super majorities, Nicole, of Republicans and Democrats. And they point to things like this when they're worried about government corruption. You know, Miles, I was thinking about this convention and I was thinking about another sort of dark chapter in the Trump story. Do you remember during COVID when he insisted on an indoor rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma? And people that came very sick afterward, but his vanity and his insatiable need for crowds led them to do the advance work and fill that room.

10:18I mean, what do you think Trump is doing about the abysmal turnout and RSVP numbers? Well, he doesn't live in reality, Nicole. That's not a political talking point. Look, the president of the United States, the leader of the free world, spent something like 10 hours on Monday, posting social media memes of him as Hulk Hogan, of him riding horses with George Washington, of him as the green lantern at the border. This is someone who looks genuinely unwell and very detached from reality. If he had been connected from reality, when he called GOP leaders this spring and demanded, they hold a convention in his name, a convention that they're calling Trump a polusa, he would have walked that back because he would have been able to see how his poll numbers were flagging. His candidates were flagging and how an event centered around that cult of personality would have the opposite intended effect rather than help his candidates when it would chain them to Donald Trump and his sinking poll numbers in the lead up

11:19to a very, very consequential election. But he's not connected to reality, Nicole. That was the same man we met in the first term who wouldn't listen to us saying, Mr. President, this is illegal and this is unconstitutional. And now from the reporting that we've seen from you and others this week, it's very clear that people around him now have literally given up trying to convince the president to do or not to do things because they cannot break through to him. That should be very worrying to everyone, not least of which would be our allies around the world who are looking at the United States and saying what is happening over there. Yeah, I mean Claire, just to listen to the words Tumble Edamiles mouth about the things that the president of the United States of America is posting on social media, which the White House announced in the first term constituted official White House policy. So it is now official White House policy that Trump sees himself as Green Lantern. We should all try to let that sink in for more than a nanosecond. I want to show you the argument that Governor JB Pritzker is making.

12:21I think not just about what's happening in Dallas, but really as we head into these midterms. This bizarre Republican midterm convention here can't paper over the fact that Republicans have done nothing to earn your vote. Donald Trump is hoping that a flashy primetime event will make you forget that well, his trade war is killing costs for families at the grocery store. His war in Iran is killing ranchers and farmers and their way of life and his war on people on the working people, the working families of this country are raising the costs of health care and housing. I mean, between miles in the focus on the betrayal over the Epstein files and Governor Pritzker's point about the wars in Iran and the betrayal of our affordability. Trump is so boxed in politically.

13:21I wonder what you think he thinks he's achieving in Dallas. Well, I think he doesn't want to spend his money. So I think he thought this would be a great idea to raise millions of dollars that then he would give to Paxton to get out from under the pressure that Republican senators are putting on him saying, hey, you gave us Paxton, now pay for it. We had a great fundraiser in John Corne and you single-handedly defeated him. So now it's your job to come up and clean up on aisle five and finance this candidate in a very expensive Texas state. But the interesting thing about this is the contrast that Chris was talking about that Taloriko is underlining their distributing groceries and this guy is charging $25,000 to come to this convention per person. Now, how does that sit with people that are struggling?

14:23That take a deep breath when they pull in to a gas pump who are stressed out when they go to a grocery store? And by the way, if you look back at Trump's rallies historically, a lot of the people there were people that were living paycheck to paycheck. Most of the people who came to Maga rallies could never afford to pay to get in under any circumstance. So I think this is a poorly hatched plan by a man that clearly is deteriorating in office. I challenge anybody with a brain to look at his posts between Sunday and Monday night and say that he's okay. Something is terribly wrong. This man has completely lost it and he's president of the United States right now. It's frankly, it's exactly where we are. Chris, to Claire's point about the money, where does the money go? Well, they have to pay all this money to Donald Trump and then is he giving it to Paxton?

15:24Where's the money going? So that's the big question, isn't it? Because he says he has a billion dollars as a number of people have pointed out, yes, he did give Paxton money a short time ago, just days ago, but 10 million out of that billion. And by the way, James Tallahuretko has far personally out fundraised Ken Paxton. Remember when they were talking about $200 million from Elon Musk, 1.6 million just of that has gone to Ken Paxton. And so maybe there's more money coming and I can tell you that they expect it and they're bracing for it. But in the end, what this campaign really believes is that these folks who have done really incredible work in just a short period of time and getting all of these groceries together and organizing and getting them out, that will make up because people understand, in their mind, in this campaign's approach, they believe that people will understand

16:25that this is the real deal, that the billionaires are not the real deal, the show is not the real deal. And by the way, they are delighted to see what Donald Trump has to say. How often has he stayed on script? If there's anybody who can ask him to stay on script, Ken Paxton himself is not exactly an extraordinary order. So we'll see how he does tonight. But in the end, they think that this works to their advantage. I will say, look, money matters and several times our interview, he asked people to donate. Having said that, he is confident, but running like he's behind. And it's something we hear consistently from candidates who are in states, red states like this, where six months ago, nobody thought they had a chance. You run like you're behind, but believe that you can win. I wonder what the plan is when Donald Trump repeats his attacks on Ken Paxton's appearance and wardrobe.

17:28He recently said he was unattractive and badly dressed. I guess we can watch for that. Christiasing, thank you for your reporting, Claire Miles, stick around when we come back. One of the few Republicans who have decided to kiss the whatever, I guess we're calling it a ring. We pay the tab to be in Texas with Donald J. Trump at 30%. His New York Congressman Mike Waller. Do you remember him? He was booed over and over again by his own voters, his own constituents in upstate New York. His Democratic opponent who is not in Texas today will be our next guest. Plus, Donald Trump and his administration's very public push to rig the elections is reaching mass levels of intended chaos today. That is certainly their intention. Questions remain about just who can vote and where those votes are counted with 55 days to go until the midterms. And later in the broadcast, apparently loyalty does pay from this White House news of cash payments to Trump's human printer, Natalie Harp, and other a's.

18:29The only question is, will he pay or did we the taxpayer pay? We'll get to all those stories and much more when Deley White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere. Taxing the rich is not going to close our budget deficit. I hope you realize that. It really will not. My question for you, what is your line? What is the line that you won't cross? What can Trump do that you will say that's wrong? Hey, bro, you can leave now. Goodbye. Goodbye. We won't proceed until you're gone. Goodbye. You want to act like that? Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Listen to your favorite MS now shows anytime

19:31as a podcast. Enjoy new episodes of Morning Joe, Deadline White House, and The Rachel Maddo Show. Every small, deep, democratic muscle that we have is flexing. Plus the last word with Lorenzo Donald, the beat with Ari Melber, The Weeknight, and more, on the go, wherever you get your podcasts, for ad-free listening to all of your favorite shows, subscribe to MS now Premium on Apple Podcasts. He seems nice. And he hopes that Democrats have a retaking control of Congress starts with people in the crowd who just heard from there. Foting their representative Republican, Congressman Mike Waller, out of his job out of office. The sounds have become routine for Mr. Waller, who represents New York's 17th congressional district, which encompasses much of New York's Hudson Valley. Now, that district is unique in that it is one of just three Republican-held congressional districts that voted for Kamala Harris in 2024.

20:32So you would think at a time when Republicans around the country are looking to distance themselves from the event dubbed by Trump as Trump of Poluzan Dallas, that that guy, Mike Waller, whose own consultants rejected Donald Trump before he plunged the nation into economic freefall would do the same. Well, you would be wrong. Congressman Waller is set to address the midterm non-convention convention tomorrow night. Is it take the stage one hour before RFK Jr. and Donald Trump Jr. Wow, we're not joking. Our next guest is running to take his job to unseat Waller this November, Army Veteran Kate Conley, Democratic candidate for New York's 17th congressional district. Thank you so much for being here. Nicole, thanks for having me. And thanks for talking about the fight we have going on here in New York 17, where we've got a guy right now whose loyalty is to one person and that is Donald Trump. And we see that in his voting record. And Mike Waller's been with him 100% of the time. And Hending and Dallas is just another reflection of that.

21:35Why not to ask you to get into his head, but when you're in the district, why on earth is he there? Mike Waller cannot help himself, but to continue to have unwavering loyalty to Donald Trump. Where again, his own voting record, where he has put Donald Trump's agenda, a head of working families here in the Hudson Valley, has been unwavering 100% with Trump, even when it meant casting the deciding vote on the one big ugly bill last year. Nicole, that cut 37,000 people in our district off of healthcare, tens of millions in snap benefits, all to pay for tax breaks for billionaires like Elon Musk who are funding his campaign. And Mike Waller was the number one recipient of Elon Musk's money towards house races in 2024. And so when it comes to Mike Waller's priorities, it is Mike Waller, then Donald Trump, and whatever's politically expedient. And again, we see that in his voting record. I spend a lot of time upstate in my unscientific way

22:35of trying to figure out how the Trump vibes are, is the bumper stickers at the Costco parking lot of the gas station. And I don't see nearly as many as I saw two years ago, and certainly not as many as I saw in 2016. What is your sense of how it's going? At the end of the day, despite Mike Waller lying about the fact that people should feel okay or be okay and he's been fighting for them, their reality is families know that since he's been elected November of 2022. It's only been harder and more expensive to put food on the table, a roof over their heads, pay for their energy bills and utility costs, or afford health care. And when you look at, how did we get here? Looking back in the last 20 years, shows you who Mike Waller is. And I think the biggest contrast between who he is and who I am. You know, he started off as a political consultant, utility lobbyist and politician who has found every way possible to profit off of democracy, where I was leading America's sons and daughters

23:36as an army officer and a fence of it. And we see through his voting record, whether it's voting for Trump's tariffs eight times that driven up costs by $4,200 for the average household, whether it's supporting the war in Iran, five times voting to give Donald Trump a blind check or being a decisive vote on the one big ugly bill. Mike Waller will vote for Donald Trump no matter how much pain it causes families here in the House of Nally. Miles Taylor, I want to bring you back in on this point that Kate's making about this unwavering loyalty, even when it is not in a Republican's personal or political interest. You saw that up close. What is that about? It's fear, Nicole. They don't want to be kicked out of the tribe. And, you know, like I'm gonna give my friend Kate Conley here a gift and maybe she already knows this. Mike Waller thinks Donald Trump is an idiot. Don't take that from someone second hand. Take it from someone first hand who Mike Waller has told that to before.

24:37I cannot stand these people who are one person in the green room and then another person on television. Mike Waller and I came up in Republican politics at the same time. Mike Waller thinks this man is a fool. So why is he going and kissing the ring? What are you afraid of, Mike? Be a normal person. I promise you, your life's a lot better when you get to live your conscience. Because if you don't, what you get is this. What you get is 3.5 million pages of corruption. What you get is having to defend this or the rest of your career. It is not worth it. And I hope that the Mike Wallers of the world recognize that and I'm not gonna shut the door on them because I think we need to keep the porch light on for these people because tens of millions of those mockery Republicans are starting to wake up. They're starting to flee the movement. They're hearing from people like the Epstein survivors. They're seeing the ballroom and the reflecting pool and the Trump arch and they're saying, this is not what it's about.

25:38I would just hope that people who claim to be leaders do that first, that they don't have to follow mainstream Americans, but frankly, that's how all resistance movements in all countries start. They don't start with the elites. They start from the bottom up. Claire, I feel like you and I have had conversations over the last 10 years. You know, why do they do it? Why do they do something in public that they do not believe in private? And you used to have a lot of those conversations with Republicans who would say exactly what Miles is saying. Kate's opponents says privately, do you still have those conversations or the Republicans who know better are mostly gone? No, I still have those conversations. And frankly, you can look at some of the Republican candidates that aren't in Dallas to imagine who some of them might be. There are Republican candidates that aren't down there, that Republican candidate for Maine is not there. The Republican candidate for New Hampshire is not there. The Republican candidate from some other states are not there.

26:40So there's two things when I think of Mike Lawler, there's political judgment, right? That's one thing you have to have. And then there's political survival, which he thinks he needs to go down there for political survival, which means he doesn't have any political judgment. So why would the people of the 17th Congressional District in New York think they got a good congressman? If he doesn't understand that what people want right now from a Republican congressman, especially in a district like New York 17th, is someone who's capable of exercising independent judgment, who's capable of calling out the obvious that Trump is making mistakes when it comes to our economy, whether it's tariffs or whether it's the many other things, the Iranian war, all of that, that is impacting whether or not people can make it to the end of the month without going in the red. And so it's just a real head scratcher to me that Lawler is down there. I don't get it.

27:40I do not get it. No political judgment. That political judgment and no strength to come home and report back to the constituents, because if you're strong, you don't associate yourself with someone at 30%. I Kate, Colley, we'll keep an eye on your race. Thank you for spending time with us today. Miles Taylor, thank you for joining me today. And giving us a glimpse into what those millions of documents look like and the way you found them and have them there in the reading room. Let us know where that reading room tour goes next. We'll stay on top of that with you. Clare sticks around with us. After the break, you think the Supreme Court decision on Missouri's GOP, Jerry Mendered Maps, that broke while we were on the air last night, would be the end of that story. But why today that legal fight goes on? And millions of people in that state still don't know where they're going to be voting. We'll bring that reporting next. Win or lose, the Trump administration is getting the chaos

28:44that it desires when it comes to voting in this year's midterm elections. In the state of Missouri, voting has been plunged into chaos, following a pair of conflicting court rulings. Over that state's congressional maps on the day the state was required to finalize ballots. New York Times reports this on the rulings quote, first, Justice Brett Kavanaugh denied a request from Missouri officials to use a congressional map in November that was redrawn to give Republicans an edge in the midterm elections. Soon after, a district court judge ruled in Missouri the other way, ordering the state to rely on that map, which had been used in last month's primary election. The issue could end up back before the Supreme Court, but for now, some voters in Missouri do not know what district they would be voting in come November. When it comes to Donald Trump's executive order, limiting mail-in voting, the dizzying legal battle is very much ongoing. The Supreme Court gave opponents of the order until this afternoon to respond to the Trump administration's efforts. Final decision could come at any time.

29:46The major problem, though, besides the fact that Trump's efforts could disenfranchise voters who rely on mail-in ballots, is that some states have already started sending those mail-in ballots out. North Carolina and Wisconsin started sending theirs out last week. And Alabama is mailing out their first absentee ballots today. Joining our coverage is David Becker. He's the executive director of the Center for Election Innovation and Research. He's also an organizer for the election official legal defense network. He previously worked as a trial attorney in DOJ's Civil Rights Division voting section. Claire is still with us as well. Claire, because we're talking Missouri, I wonder what you're hearing from people on the ground. Let me give you some context here. This chaos was masterminded and created by a Republican Secretary of State. He purposely waited to announce that he would not allow, that he would go ahead with the new maps, and would not allow the referendum to hold that process,

30:48which the law said it should. So he knew that by waiting till the very last minute, this would require them using the new maps for the primary. And therefore, he would figure out a way that the new maps would still be good for the general, because how can you change after you've had the primary? Well, the Supreme Court smelled it out and said of Missouri and said, no, no, no. We're not going to let you do this. We're not going to let you ignore the law, the Constitution and the statute, and pretend that it's not there. You can't do that. And by the way, keep in mind, this Supreme Court of Missouri, seven of the nine members were appointed by Republican governors, and the decision was unanimous. So it goes to the Supreme Court and none other than Brett Kavanaugh said, yeah, no. If this is up to Missouri, Missouri has decided this is done. So they go to a Trump appointee in the federal court and get him to issue an order like five minutes before the deadline. And he says, no, you've got to use the new map. So it is really an exhibit in flashing lights

31:53that the Republicans think it's okay to not follow the law if they can get away with it. And this problem here is that this is really impacting voters rights to not only weigh in by initiative petition, but also have the law followed so they can have some certainty. It is really discussing. And by the way, the Missouri Supreme Court now is calling the Secretary of State in front of them for a contempt proceeding, because they know what this guy has done. They are on to his tricks, and it will be very interesting to see what they do to him when they call him in front of the court. I've never known a statewide elected official to be called in front of the Missouri Supreme Court for contempt. This is new ground that they're plowing. It'll be really interesting to see how it turns out. David, there is a legal front and then there is the psychology voters, which I spend a lot of my career as a politics and in government. And if there were a science or a math equation

32:54to get people to vote, people like me would be exilionaires ten times over, not the tech kind. I mean, it is a combination of being motivated by a candidate, being inspired either negatively or positively by circumstances and having confidence that you will get in trouble. That voting is your right and that you'd be protected for doing so. It feels like in that bucket of issues, however, this turns out legally. If they can just inch away at a small sliver of the electorate and make them feel anxiety about whether they're voting in the right place or whether they're registered in the right place or whether they change their name properly with the registrar after they got married, change their name, they will have succeeded. How do you avoid that tragedy? Yeah, what's going on in Missouri right now is legitimately chaotic. I mean, we've got the federal courts and the state courts at war with each other right now. But what looks like will happen shortly is the eighth circuit's going to rule the Supreme Court of the United States will get another chance

33:55to assert that this is a state law issue. I think this will be resolved very soon. Unfortunately, right now during the chaos, the people who are really paying the price of Senator McCaskill, Senator, the voters of Missouri and the election officials who are trying desperately to plan for the election to give those voters the information they need, the majority of election officials in the state of Missouri are also Republicans. So while we're seeing that play out, you're also quite right Nicole that particularly midterm elections, it is not unusual for half the electorate to sit it up. It's the highest turnout we've ever seen in a midterm election was in 2018 is 50% of turn out of eligible voters. That means one of two eligible voters sat out the highest turnout election we've ever seen in modern American history in a midterm. So if you tell voters it's going to be unsafe or it's going to be inconvenient or it's going to be chaotic or your vote might not matter, they're more likely to sit it out and that's really a problem. And that might be the intention of the administration right now and trying to generate this perception of chaos and confusion. I think the really good news here though

34:55is that it's generally not working. Putting Missouri aside for a second, you think through those two executive orders of the president's side, both are currently blocked and I think this mail voting order almost certainly continued to be blocked and will not go into effect for 2026. You look at the lawsuits that the administration has filed seeking to seize sensitive voter data from the states. The DOJ is literally 0 and 23 in those states. They have a perfect record. I can't even contemplate this as a former DOJ attorney. It's hard to believe you could go even 0 and 2 let alone 0 and 23. You know, after that initial warrant that they issued in Fulton County to seize evidence related to 2020 election, we haven't seen another federal warrant and we have seen Trump appoint a judge as strike down efforts. And so what voters should understand is they're going to experience the same safe, convenient, secure process they've seen in past elections and I'm actually very bullish on this election. I think election officials all around the country, Missouri is a great example of this where they're getting the job done. The primaries have gone extraordinarily well

35:57with very high turnout despite all of the noise and I think we're gonna see record high turnout in 2026 despite the efforts of the administration that might be desperately now just trying to spread disinformation because all of its efforts to actually interfere with the elections have failed. Yeah, I wanna put, I just need a break, but I wanna put this to both of you. I mean, the other sort of pattern or lesson from human history is what we saw in Hungary. That you make it harder, you tell people over and over again that you're going to disenfranchise them, you threaten to have armed federal officials at the polls and what do people do? They find safety in numbers with unprecedented turnout. I wanna ask both of you to rate the likelihood of that scenario on the other side of a short break. Stay with us. Can I just quickly say hello to you? For me being a part of this place has always been about the people, not about the politics. Why are you holding this sign? You ever been to a protest before? He's safe. People that we cover who allow us to enter their lives.

36:58How's everybody doing? Everybody doing okay? How long has been in line? I love human beings to spend time connecting with them. Is the biggest blessing that I could ask for. From the field to the studio, Jacob is finding the heart of the story. Connect with Jacob Soberov. Weekends at 10 a.m. Eastern on MS now. We're back with David and Claire. David, I think as you were speaking, some of what you predicted came to pass just to explain the breaking news. Yeah, the A-circa just issued a very brief one paragraph ruling on a two to one vote that affirmed the lower court ruling that put the new maps that were Republican drawn into effect. And what that means is now this is on a very fast track for the United States Supreme Court where it'll be considered once again. And the United States Supreme Court will have to decide whether it's original declination to review the Missouri State Supreme Court's decision, which was based entirely on state law, still should stand or whether the federal court rulings based on federal law should take supremacy over these.

37:59So I think within about a day, maybe two at the most, we should have a final decision on this. But presumably the United States Supreme Court was aware of the federal issues when they declined to take this case from the Missouri State Supreme Court before. I don't know what that means. It certainly doesn't mean I would predict a victory for the old map in the United States Supreme Court. But certainly these are issues that the United States Supreme Court was well aware of when they declined to take that case just a couple days ago. Claire Donald Trump is batting about $888 in the Supreme Court. You know, he didn't give him everything, but they gave him a whole lot. What are your worries today? Well, you know, what I worry about most is a Republican party that has abandoned the rule of law and has abandoned state's rights. Our elections are free and fair because of state and local control. It is how you guard against, that's why it was designed that way. That's why it was put in the Constitution because that's how you guard against an autocrat

39:00taking control of elections and changing outcomes in order to stay in office. So that's what I'm most worried about is will they be true to the state law and to the Constitution or will they pull a fast one and go a further step towards federalizing these elections which would be a bad thing for America? One thing that the country has rendered judgment on is the Supreme Court, as long as Gallup has been asking the question of how people feel about it, it is the most unpopular it has ever been. I wonder what you think about the question I posed before the news broke in the break about how voters will respond to all of this. Very flagrant, obvious efforts to disenfranchise voters, turning to the Supreme Court, which has been very friendly and the vast majority of issues. The piece where voters have agencies, whether or not they turn out, what are you seeing and hearing Claire about turnout models for November? Well, there is no question, there's a psychology at work here.

40:00All you have to do is think about raising your children and when they think they're trying to, you're trying to keep something from them and you're trying to keep them from doing something, they wanna do it even more. Yeah, it becomes way more attractive, right? I'm right. Whatever is forbidden, that's what they wanna do. Yeah. And so what he is doing, is he setting an environment where everyone, and by the way, it reflects how stupid he thinks voters are. A black and brown voters know he's trying to keep them from voting. They know that. People know he's trying to disenfranchise areas of the country that have our marginal. And so I think that our fellow panelists is correct. I think we're gonna have a record turnout. I think people are gonna get motivated and get out there to vote. Right. The one that has ever had any sort of enane debate about screen time knows that the minute you say, fine, do what you think is right. Like, phones in the charger, well, most of the time. All right. David Becker, we are so lucky that you happen to be here as this news was unfolding. Thank you for being here today.

41:02Claire, you have news. We wanna thank you for spending the hour with us, but you were launching an exclusive weekly series called the most perfect name ever, political potluck. Claire's gonna discuss affordability and kitchen table economic issues, live from her own kitchen with those beautiful baked goods that taste as good as they look, I promise in the background. Our viewers of this show know very well her kitchen table. The first episode features Democratic leader, Hakeem Jeffries. It's only available to MSNOW members. You have to be a member. To become a member, we'll tell you how it's easy. Right now you just scan the QR code on your screen. You could also head to MSNOW slash membership to sign up. It's all part of our new app that connects you to all of us. Me, Claire, all of us. All your favorite reporters and anchors and friends again, scan that QR code on your screen right now. We hope to see there. When we come back, the parting words from the outgoing secretary of the Smithsonian,

42:04the museum which has come under repeated attack from Donald Trump and his administration despite being a national treasure. We'll bring you that story next. MUSIC Smithsonian Secretary Lonnie Bunch this week announced his retirement. He is the first black leader of the Smithsonian. I'm founding director of the Smithsonian's National Museum of African American History and Culture who rather predictably found himself the target of the White House Pressure Campaign to Whitewash America's History and encroach on the Smithsonian's autonomy. The Washington Post published his farewell letter to colleagues in it. He writes quote, now it is time for my next chapter, a chapter that will allow me to continue to protect the integrity of the Smithsonian and to champion the importance of a history that illuminates and celebrates the complex story

43:07of our nation. Bunch has said this is not in response to Trump's increased pressure campaign, which is a fight he has not in his tenure back down from. In an interview with the New York Times this week, he said this quote, Americans are an amazingly brave people who have accomplished so much. They've got to be brave enough to face their own history. To me, that is essential. And I will stand against wind and tide to prevent history from being erased, softened and made palatable. That's wrong. We'll keep an eye on that story and the Smithsonian coming up for us. White Donald Trump is paying his very devoted aid, Natalie, a big cash gift. We'll bring you that story next. Hi there, everyone. It's Nicole Wallace. I'm here to tell you about the MS now membership. You'll be able to connect directly with all your favorite hosts. You can stream live TV and find a community that cares as much as you do. Visit ms.nowslashmembership to join us.