A Deadly Pattern / A Desparate Housewife

0:00Make this back to school season, your family smoothest start yet. Weissant is the nation's largest network of tutors with over 65,000 experts across more than 350 subjects. Get personalized one-on-one online tutoring built around your child's goals, schedule, and learning style right from home. No subscriptions, just the help you need when you need it. Go to Weissant.com, that's www.weissant.com and use code podcast15 for $15 off your first lesson. This program contains subject matter that may be disturbing to some listeners. Listener discretion is advised. There are over 100,000 cold cases in America. Only 1% are ever sold. This is one of those rare stories. No one in the emergency room. Yeah, how many broke into my house?

1:01I do very well. No, my wife really hurts. She's bleeding. In San Diego, California, on October 15, 2004, 911 takes in a call from Bill New at 4.02 a.m. Bill's wife, Phyllis, has been shot once in the head at close range. I got drove to right aid and get her from the light-way in that machine. Good thing you're not. That's my orange. We're gone. 30 minutes. Maybe 30 minutes. The reporting party who was the husband had supposedly left his house to get his wife for some medication. And when he returned to his home, he found that summer had broken into his home and murdered his wife during the 30 minutes that he was gone. San Diego County Sheriff's Detective Pat Gardner heads to the crime scene.

2:02Basically the only room that was involved was the room that Phyllis knew was found in. She was found deceased lying in her bed. You have a close gun shot to the back of her head. It appeared that she had been murdered in her bed as she slept. Gardner follows up with paramedics who had responded to the scene four minutes after Mr. News 911 call. Right on scene, declared Phyllis knew deceased at the home and noticed that the showrie showed signs of levity in her gomores. Deputy medical examiner Dr. Stephen Campman reviews the paramedics findings. It was his opinion that she had been dead for at least a couple hours that he felt rigor mortis in her face and maybe an arm and that he saw some color changes levity of her body that let him know that in his experience that she'd been dead for some time. Rigor mortis, the stiffening of the body and levity, the settling of blood in the body,

3:02are used to determine the approximate time of death. It generally takes a couple hours to be very visible, so that it could be seen at four in the morning suggested that she'd been dead, you know, a couple hours. According to Mr. News, however, his wife was killed by an intruder, approximately 30 minutes before paramedics arrived. The name Gardner finds time of death isn't the only inconsistency at the crime scene. President said the home was a very large freestanding jewelry box. It had eight drawers total and then two vertical drawers on the side. And basically only three of those drawers had been disturbed and the very top ones, the rest were completely full of jewelry and that appeared very unusual. My gut tell me that there were some serious problems from looking at that home that it did not appear to be a residential burglar slash murder. The shot basically appeared to be an execution style shot. That's something you don't see normally in a home invasion. While Gardner continues processing the scene for evidence, Bill knew is taken downtown

4:07for more questions. We knew at that point he was the only person that was in the house with her at the time or around the time that she died, so he's the one we need to start with. Sheriff's detectives Richie Han and Sharon Lunsford sit down with Bill knew. And ask where he was on the day his wife was murdered. After that night, Bill knew says his wife woke up with a migraine.

5:08New says he doesn't know what time Phyllis will come up or what time he returned home. He said that it probably took him. He was guessing about 15 minutes to get there, maybe as much as 15 minutes in the story he wasn't sure and then maybe another 15 minutes to get home. That's why he said we're looking at a timeframe of maybe half hour to the outside of 45 minutes that he was gone. He exit the room and then proceeded to use the phone in the other room. Never gave her first date even when the dispatcher came online offered assistance. He didn't check her. He didn't check her. Never went back into that room. Detectives ask about the state of the news marriage.

6:11We asked him, they had any problems and he said, well, everyone has their problems. But there was nothing significant in their relationship. It wasn't out of the norm for a married couple to have disagreements. Nothing serious. After three hours, detectives end the interview and new is free to go. Meanwhile, detective Gardner has been canvassing neighbors near the crime scene. Witness came forward who said that on Thursday night that Phyllis had come over to her home upset over the fact that she and Mr. New had gotten to an argument over him, possibly not working. Carol Espinoza is Phyllis news friend and neighbor. My first thought was that SOB. He did something because she caught him in a lie. She had backed him into a corner finally. She had finally confronted him that this was it.

7:12She just started crying and saying that Bell's been lying again about his so-called current job. He had called apparently the agency that hired him the temp agency and they had never heard of him. So then she confronted him and told him that she was going to follow him to work the next morning. And he'd better produce a paste of or a time card where she had had it. Ten hours after confronting her husband, Phyllis knew was dead. Well, that information was critical for the case and in regards to Phyllis, do the fact that contradicted what Bill originally told the first team of investigators that interviewed him. Armed with Espinoza's information, San Diego County Sheriff's detectives Sharon Lunsford and Richie Han sit down with Bill New for the second time in less than seven hours. So yesterday afternoon, you went to the temp agency. Okay. Now have you worked for them at all?

8:13Have you done jobs for them? Because she was a little upset about him not working and he had possibly been lying about having jobs when he didn't. Bill, what happened when you got home? He talked about that. I told her that I was a person and she got upset and cried. She doesn't feel flattered or anything like that. And somebody asked, what happened, Bill? Nothing happened. We talked and we talked and we talked and she told you that she wasn't going to put up with that anymore didn't she? No. She said that she was going to see that I got some help. Did something go wrong that house last night and did you wind up doing something that you would never claim of doing anything else in years did something happen? Did you hurt your soul still? No. No. I told you the only thing that I didn't tell you was about temp agency.

9:15Bill knew denies any involvement in his wife's death, detectives lean in and continue to apply pressure. What did you broken into your house? You told us what happened. What do you mean? Don't you broke into my house? What did you tell you what happened between your and Phil's last night? I told you what happened. After nearly two hours of interrogation, new begins to shut down. Detectives end the interview and Mr. New is free to go. This time however, he walks out of the police station knowing there's a target on his back and a team of detectives who believe he's a killer. Nancy Friend has known Philus New for 16 years. A week after the murder, Friend remembers a conversation she and Philus had years earlier about Bill knew.

10:16She says his first wife died when she was eight months pregnant and that kind of threw me and I said, well what happened? She was well, Bill was cleaning the gun, it fell and discharged and hit her across the room. And the hair in my arms stood up, I got goose bumps all over my whole body thinking, you know, this isn't sound right. Nancy phones San Diego detectives and tells them her story. I said my name is Nancy Friend, I've known Philus a number of years and you do know that he killed his first wife. There was death silence on the other end of the phone and the first thing he said to me was, how do you know this? I said, well Philus told me. Diego County Sheriff's Detective Pat Gardner reviews Bill News Police interview. And you've been married before? Yes. Do you have children? Any children from these? Or do you know, uh, my first wife asked why in my second wife we got to work? What was your first wife's name?

11:19My name was Phong Shuri, Phong Shuri. She was from Thailand, my brother when I was overseas. Oh my God. What was the guy I said? Did you get me an online camp? He was all on the line. He was all on the line. No thanks. Just hours after the murder, Bill News had told police his first wife died in an automobile accident, a statement that now appears to be a lie. Then I also received additional information that she died from a supposedly accidental shooting. Did any of that information ever get brought up to you? An accidental shooting? No, absolutely not. He was very clear that this was an automobile accident, nothing more. Lead detective Pat Gardner believes he might have the leverage he needs to crack Bill News and decides to confront his suspect. Actually, I figured the best way for me to do was to call him on the telephone and that's what I did. What was your first wife's name? Her name was Phong Shuri and she passed away and the accident.

12:23What type of accident was that? I really don't want to go into all that. I really don't. I'm just beside myself. You can't tell her what type of accident it was. You know, I just don't want to talk about that. I was told that the accident wasn't an auto accident. And then I was also told that the accident was an accidental shooting accident. Can you just let me at least know that? Okay. It was an accidental shooting, but my mom and dad decided that they were going to just tell everybody that it was an auto accident. I was cleaning a rifle and I dropped it and I grabbed it when it fell and it went off and she was struck. He just finally made it that he had shot or driven a clean accident. What type of a rifle was that? I don't remember. Oh my gosh, we're just hit or hit.

13:25You know, I don't know that. You don't know if she was struck. Well, it's pretty unusual that if you shoot your wife, you wouldn't know the facts of the shooting. This is your wife that you're supposedly shot and so that seems suspicious. Through the Department of Vital Statistics, Gardner locates a 1973 death certificate for Somsri new in San Bernardino, California. And then I called Sembernino Police Department and I spoke with Detective Dave Dillon. Okay, we're getting ready to go into the identification bureau with the Police Department. San Bernardino Detective Dave Dillon learns that in 1973, the Somsri new case was determined to be an accidental death. So here in the ID bureau, for all our murders or death investigations, we maintain photographs or negatives. Detectives find 26 old negatives from the Somsri new crime scene. They are the only remaining pieces of evidence in the case. So what I asked them to do after that was blow them up 8x10s, which told me another story about what happened at the scene.

14:31The photos tell Detective Dillon a story of a cold case that original detectives got wrong. I look at this and I saw that the blood spatter did not match with the trajectory of the bullet. Blood spatter had traveled to the back of the wall, which was not consistent with the bullet path. The bullet path had gone back out this way and in fact everything was this way. According to Dillon, the photos show that Somsri knew could not have been shot the way Mr. New explained. Based on my experience in homicide and having spent so much time there, I thought and felt that this was in fact a murder. I just did not feel comfortable saying this was a death investigation. I went over to the crime lab and I gave them the photographs in the reports and I asked them to do a crime scene reconstruction and have them make their own determination scientifically on what the Somsri new shooting was. It had to be a contact as if somebody was standing over her pointing the gun down towards her, placing it on the back of the hand and then discharging the weapon.

15:43This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. If I could wake up tomorrow better at one thing. It would be leaving more space for the things that fill me up. Sharing time with people I care about, disappearing into a compelling book, taking a walk without reaching for my phone, or following a creative spark without immediately moving on to the next item on my list. Work, errands, and notifications can so easily take over the day, but I'm trying to be more thoughtful about saving time for what makes me feel present, restored, and connected. Better is a feeling defined by you and for BetterHelp, it's a better help therapist who really gets you. It's a focus on global emotional well-being with thousands of therapists and millions of members in over 100 countries. It's progress, and it's getting better at making time for the parts of life that make you feel most like yourself. Sign up and get 10% off at BetterHelp.com slash cold case. That's better, help.com slash cold case.

16:44Insurance isn't one-size-fits-all, and shopping for it shouldn't feel like squeezing into something that just doesn't fit. That's why drivers have enjoyed progressives name your price tool for years. With the name your price tool, you tell them what you want to pay, and they show you options that fit your budget. Enough hunting for discounts, trying to calculate rates and tinkering with coverages. Maybe you're picking out your very first policy, or maybe you're just looking for something that works better for you and your family. Either way, they make it simple to see your options. No guesswork, no surprises. Ready to see how easy and fun shopping for car insurance can be? Visit progressive.com and give the name your price tool a try. Take this dress out of shopping and find coverage that fits your life on your terms. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Both wives were sleeping, both wives shot in the back of the head. There were many similarities. When you laid them outside by side to how his MO was, they were very strikingly similar. In 2004, Phyllis knew was shot and killed, according to her husband Bill, by a random intruder.

17:5131 years before that, Mr. knew shot and killed his first wife, Somesrey, while allegedly cleaning his gun. The coincidence makes detective Pat Gardner uncomfortable, and he decides to consult an expert. So what we did was we flew out and saw Dr. Vintzidemayo and we presented the case to him. Now, the weapon in this case was a 44-magnum carbine. Dr. Vintzidemayo is an expert in the field of ballistics and gunshot wounds. He reviews evidence from the accidental shooting of Somesrey knew, along with Bill's new statement from 1973. According to the husband, he was sitting on the couch and he started to get up where he was doing something at that time and the gun fell from his hand. And he grabbed it in midair and it accidentally disjaged. Dimaio has immediate suspicions about Mr. News story.

18:52It'd be awful hard to drop this gun and get your finger in the trigger guard and put pressure on it, because you need not only for it to get in, but it's got to also fire the weapon. On top of that, if he's sitting down and the weapon slips from him, the bullet would have to have traveled in an upward direction to a head. However, the bullet, after entering the head and exiting the face, then went into the back of the couch and into the wall behind it, in a downward trajectory. So actually, the overall trajectory of the bullet was into the head through the face, through the back of the couch, and to the wall, which is not consistent with his account, where the bullet would have had to have been going. In addition to the inconsistent trajectory, Dimaio sees a problem with the gunshot wound that killed Sam'sry new.

19:53This wound was a huge stellate wound on the head, and there was also a large gaping exit wound on the left side of the face. And this suggests that at the time the sea was shot, the muzzle of the gun was in contact with the head. According to Mr. News statement, however, he accidentally shot Sam'sry from a distance of six feet. It could not have occurred the way he said it to. This injury was that from a contact wound, and the individual had to be standing at the time the weapon was fired pointing down. Basically, they were executed. The muzzle of the gun was right up to the head when the shot was fired. Assistant District Attorney Kurt Meckles and Jill Lindbergh review both of detective gardener's cases. I mean, the most obvious similarities, the fact that we're both Sam'sry and Phyllis were the defendant's wives. Both of them were shot in the home.

20:56Both were shot at night time in the home, and both were shot in the back of the head, not just in the back of the head, but the trajectories were almost identical. Another similarity lies in Mr. News possible motive for killing both of his wives. He stood to gain, and ultimately his son did get $800,000 in life insurance from the 2004 murder of Phyllis. And back in 1973, he collected $15,000, which doesn't sound like a lot now, but if you use present value of money, that was more than $66,000 to a young man back in 1973. A lot of money back then. In April of 2005, Bill New is charged with the murder of Sam'sry New and the murder of Phyllis New. The District Attorney's Office decides to try both cases together. You can't separate these two cases. Even if San Bernardino had tried the 1973 case and we tried the 2004 case down here in San Diego, the evidence would have been cross admissible.

21:59Because of the similarities, because you could show that the same person did this. Bill News trial opens in February of 2006. After a month of testimony, he is found guilty of murdering both of his wives. One in 2004, the other 31 years earlier. Mr. New is the judgment of this court that probation be denied in this case. Four weeks after the verdict, Bill New is sentenced. And I'm not exactly sure even how to describe this sentence when it gets down to the total. But it is life plus five years in a consecutive term of life without the possibility of parole plus 25 years to life for the total of a very long time. We're here to support her. We're here to support the verdict. We were happy with the verdict. Outside the courtroom, a group of women gather. Phyllis News friends there to honor her memory.

23:01It's a heartbreaker because we all knew her. It's just a sad situation that something like that should have to happen. But I believe, and I think we all believe that he was guilty, and that he is getting his justice or it's not. The Wagon Wheel Saloon was one of Phyllis News favorite places. A place to dance, to laugh, and most of all to live. Everybody was a friend to her. The first time she met you, you just felt like you were welcome. On a Thursday evening, Phyllis's friends gather at the Wagon Wheel to celebrate her life and cherish her memory. I think of her out there on the floor, and she always would shine. You know, you'd see her out there smiling and happy. And that's what she's looking at and smiling at us. She always smiled at us. So we just want to say, Phyllis, we love you, and we miss you, God bless. You're a man.

24:12On the morning of June 10th, 1982, in Corvallis, Oregon, a woman calls 911. In an incomprehensible call, Melkisshoe service. Corvallis police officer Mary Eichler receives the call. The dispatcher came on and said that they have a call from Melkisshoe store that there's some kind of disturbance, and there's a woman outside screaming. Eichler knows the store well. It's owned by her friends, Brenda and Greg Kirkley. Of course, I headed there because if you have a friend that's involved, you're going to go. Outside, Eichler finds Brenda in hysterics. Inside, Brenda's infant daughter lies in a bassenet, unharmed. While the baby's father, Greg, lies on the floor, shot once in the back.

25:16I saw Greg on the floor, and I still can see Greg on the floor. And he was already looking really bad. Very white, not good. Greg is later pronounced dead, and Mary Eichler finds herself asking a new widow what happened. She just said, a guy came into the store and he shot Greg. He was described as an Indian, Middle Eastern Indian male dressed with a dark clothing carrying a shotgun, and he ran down this alley according to her. Captain Wilbur Hacima responds to the scene within minutes, and assists in the search for Greg Kirkley's alleged attacker. If this person came out of this shoe shop and had run down the alley, this is the alley that would have been involved, this warehouse here on the left apparently was open. The people that were working in there saw nothing. The garbage cans were all checked. The rooftops were checked. In case they had thrown the gun up on the roof.

26:17We had patrol cars circling the area. No one saw anything. It was as if this person had just evaporated into the air. Why did no one see anything? I mean, look at it even now. You can see straight down through, even those garbage cans wouldn't stop you from seeing somebody running. It just seemed like, you know, who's going to rob a shoe shop? That opening in the morning, you know, because they probably would open with less than $100 and change. And that didn't sound quite right. Questions about Brenda Kirkley's story be circulating almost immediately. When the photo, the sketch came out, you know, I remember talking about how. Doesn't it feel strange? It looks like Greg. Police questioned Brenda about the state of her marriage and get nowhere until Jim West talks to police. I knew in my heart that she had killed her husband. West was Greg Kirkley's best friend. He knew the Kirk Lee's had their problems, especially when it came to Brenda's bookkeeping.

27:22I would call him having conversations with Brenda and say, Brenda, what's going on here? These people are calling me and saying that we have outstanding accounts, but yet in your books, it says they're paid. And of course, you would always say, well, I don't know what the mistake is. Obviously, they've been paid. It's right there in the ledger. West suspected that Brenda was cooking the books. He tells police he was present the day Greg made an appointment with an attorney, willing to assist in the forensic accounting. And I'll never forget the look on her face. It was just that of extreme guilt. I went home and I told my wife, I said, honey, it looks like there may be a divorce in the works after this, because it's going to be uncovered. What's happened to these funds? Instead of a divorce, Greg is found dead the next morning, just hours before his appointment with the attorney. In my heart of hers, I knew that she'd killed her husband. To me, there was no question about it.

28:25My concern was that she became very, very helpful. Captain Hockeyma tells his detectives not to get too comfortable with their potential suspect. She wanted to talk to the detectives. She wanted to talk all the time. And yet, she did not want to take a polygraph exam. Everybody just would say, you know, is there any chance Brenda did it? Suspicion alone isn't enough to charge Brenda despite the small town whispers. Mary Eichler finds it hard to believe her friend is a murderer. Here you have somebody that was around you all the time, was at a birthday party with your children sitting there laughing. Do you think that this person that you think is a nice person is going to turn around and shoot somebody? Right in the back. The prospect of murder hangs heavy in the air and the town of Corvallis grows very small for Brenda Kirkley.

29:25Eventually, she remarries and moves away and her husband's case grows cold. Until one day, 18 years later, when a telephone rings. What can I do for you or what? Let's start this. I have a problem. I know what happened. Detective Sean Hawk is working late one night in May of 2001 when he finds himself on the phone with the ex-husband of a possible killer. A gentleman by the name of Mick Pamplin introduced himself, said he was from Oklahoma who is married to a lady by the name of Brenda, then Pamplin, formerly Brenda Kirkley. It sounds like you have some pretty intimate details about what occurred that day, don't you? Well, I'm going to sign for a church event. And you know who is involved, don't you? Yes, I do. I'm all ears. As the call continued, he mentioned at one point that there was that Brenda had shot Greg. She disclosed this to him in Newport, Oregon in 1988.

30:28Was there anybody else involved? No, just her. She's on it. Anytime anybody calls in, there's always a motive. So in this case, he's going through divorce or their voice had already been completed. And so I knew that there was probably some issues there with Brenda. But yet, if he had information, it didn't mean that all of his information was going to be deceptive. I know it was shot again. I know it was... Did she say how many times? Did she say how many times? No, she did. Okay. Didn't stumble. He didn't create. It was very matter of fact. And only people who are actually in a situation who've had a conversation with somebody would know those details. Hawk learns the shotgun Brenda allegedly used is long gone. He has a few more phone conversations with Mick Pamplin. Before he offers up, what could be Hawk's magic bullet? Literally. And as we're chatting, he mentions that Brenda had brought in some shotgun shells into the marriage.

31:35I'm like, okay, that's good to know. What's the origin of these shells? These came from Oregon. Okay. You know, they're... Do what they with her when you matter? Yeah. Okay. He mentions that those shells, which were brought from Oregon into their marriage, and then back to Oklahoma were still in his possession, and that he could freely send them to me. This is what makes him sent me from Oklahoma. These are the shells, and this is a box that Brenda brought into the marriage. Hawk asks the FBI lab to compare the lead from Brenda's shotgun shells with the lead found in Greg's body. This is going to be the wadding and a pellet taking from Greg's body. And these were taken from his body during the autopsy. The scientists believe that there was consistency between what was taken out of his body, and what was in this un-new shell. Unfortunately, consistent doesn't mean perfect match. Even worse, Spousal privilege laws make Brenda's confession to Mick during their marriage,

32:35inadmissible in court. Detectives just don't have enough to arrest their suspect, and the case, once again, gets shelved. There were just a series of events and other priorities that prevented us from actively putting this on the front shelf. Three years later, however, investigators finally get a chance to sit down with Brenda Kirkley, to discuss her first husband's murder. And this time, the one-time widow has a very different story to tell. After I get my heart into the water and shine. You know those pieces in your closet you wear on repeat? The sweater that works with everything, the pants that always feel right, or that t-shirt you reach for without even thinking. Those are the pieces that make getting dressed easy, and that's exactly what Quinn's does so well. Quinn's makes high-quality wardrobe staples with premium materials,

33:35like 100% Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and marino wool. Their cashmere sweaters start at just $60, with that soft, elevated feel, you'd expect from a luxury brand. But without the luxury price tag. I've been reaching for my 100% organic cotton cropped cardigan constantly. It's comfortable, fits beautifully, and somehow makes even a simple outfit feel pulled together. From premium pants and fitted tees to breathable activewear, Quinn's makes a versatile basics built for everyday life. And because they work directly with ethical factories and skip the middleman, prices are 50 to 80% less than similar brands. You're paying for high-quality, not brand markup. And it's not just clothing. Quinn's brings that same approach to everything they make, bedding and bath, kitchen essentials, and furniture too. All softly designed pieces for your whole home. Find your next fall favorites at Quinn's. Download the Quinn's app for app-exclusive offers or go to Quinn's.com slash cold case. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns,

34:36now available in Canada and the UK too. That's q-u-i-n-c-e.com slash cold case. Hello and welcome to Pluto Fall. If you know the name of the movie you'd like to see, just stream it for free on Pluto TV. We're all your bloodbusters favorites or landing all summer long. Catch anchor man, the legend of Ron Burgundy. Fantastic. The Matrix trilogy. Welcome to the real world. Mean Girls. Sidebar. Titanic. From the key in the world. And so much more for showtime. Press nothing. They're free 24-7. That is so a f**k. On Pluto TV, stream now. Pay never. Got some hit and runs. This one on center point. Looks like we're getting hit in Southtown pretty well. And it is always helpful to go back and take a fresh look at some of these old cases. And we have some that go back over 50 years. Lieutenant Tim Brewer begins holding cold case meetings. And the team decides to reopen the 1982 shotgun killing

35:36of Greg Kirkley. The Greg Kirkley homicide certainly was number one on the list. The investigation had taken a backseat to fresher cases. One person however remains at the top of the suspect list. Greg's wife and soul witnessed to the murder Brenda. Some of the shotgun pellets were removed from Greg Kirkley's body. Had been examined and compared against shotgun pellets that had been in Brenda Durant's possession. Brenda's pellets were ruled consistent with those that killed Greg. While the ballistics testing doesn't provide conclusive evidence of guilt, it certainly bolsters detectives confidence in their case. There's no doubt my mind is insolvable. None. She did it. We knew it. We all knew it. Knowing it and proving it however are two different things. It's basically straight on shot right here at shoulder height. Detectives Sean Hawke and Karen Stouter dig through the original reports

36:37and diagram the crime scene to show how Brenda might have killed Greg. The pictures poke holes in Brenda's story. Based on what she described in her handwritten statement, if the perpetrator turns and fires, he's going to basically hit this wall and there's going to be damage, major damage to all of these boxes, the other items on the other side of the shelf. However, nothing in the store was disturbed. There's just no way possible that he could have had that turning radius with the shotgun to then be able to shoot and kill Greg. What's the likelihood mathematically of turning around, hearing somebody or seeing somebody firing and actually hitting him perfectly to where the first time you pull the trigger is going to kill him? It was a perfect shot. It was a stage shot. It was prepped to kill him. Another red flag is the Kirkless financial records. We cannot have this any kind of trouble. In 1982, Brenda claimed the couple was in good financial shape. A review of the books, however, tells a different story.

37:39And essentially, she was robbing Peter Pay Paul. They were struggling and she was basically in charge of all the financial pieces. And he wasn't aware, fully aware of what was transpiring with their finances, with their personal finances, with their business finances. He was going to discover what was going on. He was going to see all this financial stuff that was happening and he was going to be upset with her. And for whatever reason, she just didn't want to deal with that. To me, it looked like this was the beginning of a motive. The team has some good circumstantial evidence, but not enough to take before a jury. The only thing that could really help us in prosecuting the case was to have a confession. To do that, detectives know they'll need a little help. We knew without a doubt that she did this, but then we needed to understand her to then know what sort of theme development we needed to use in order to encourage her to tell us the truth. She wasn't a psychopathic kind of uncaring sadistic killer. It wasn't that at all. Dr. John Cochran is a forensic psychiatrist in Salem, Oregon.

38:40For me, I felt like I had to get into her psyche. He's approached by Corvallis investigators who want to get inside the head of their suspect. What I came to was that she was a very dependent but depressed individual. She was a type of individual who would avoid confrontations. She was a type of individual who could be easily intimidated by those in control. Dr. Cochran tells detectives to hit Brenda hard with their evidence, and not let up no matter what. So, for example, if she were to fall on the floor and start crying or anything like this, you don't reach down and pat them on the back and say, hey, will you take a time out here for 15 minutes? I'm going to go get you a coke. You don't do that. You just continue with whatever you need to do because it's just an indication of their defense is breaking down and they're ready to give up what her story is. Dr. Cochran also recommends appealing to Brenda's emotions,

39:40something best accomplished by having another woman in the room. With both of them there, with Karen playing her part, she acts as a female support person in that sense. Investigators hope that a combination of hard facts and emotion will be enough to crack their suspect. On October 12, 2005, detectives' hawk and stater arrive in Oklahoma where local police ask Brenda to come downtown for a chat. What Brenda doesn't know is that she's about to be confronted by the ghost of her past marriage. She was stunned. She was. She was just taking back a little bit. And Sean started right in and said, I'm sure you know why we're here. We're not here to play any games. This is going to be a long time. It's going to be your hair for a long time. We're going to try to work with you and come in with your questions. But if the back doesn't matter, it's just that today. It's going to be nice to meet you too. You can hold onto this.

40:40And we started walking through the scenario, the suspect that you said came in, the past, the money. This isn't plausible. When we just kind of laid the foundation for, you know that we know. And we just didn't leave her now. Boom, boom, boom right one after another. With all the facts, she was absolutely realizing that we knew what we were talking about. Detectives follow Dr. Cochran's psychiatric script, hitting Brenda Hard, backing her into a corner, and offering a female friend in the room, Detective Karen Stodder. You ready Brenda? I can see your face. You are. Yep. I'm going to the balcony. You're going to be free, man. I've seen this over and over and over. I'm ready to get this off your chest. I think Brenda was just sitting there thinking to herself, what do I do? I'm in a corner. You know, they know basically that I did this. After just six minutes, Brenda begins to crack. She's all I can get in there. My life was very difficult.

41:40It was what she was telling us, and she couldn't handle it anymore. That thing that I couldn't tell, which was about, she might not find anything. She's telling us that I had it, and I called it a two-camon. She built up all of this pressure within herself and her mind, and the only option she thought she thought she had was shooting it. I just got on and I was back into a corner. And I can't wait to find you. She said, she remembered that she walked over to him, gave my hug, and said, I loved you. And then walked around, went and got the shotgun, and stood between the shelves there, set it up, and fired a shot and killed him. I gave my hug and killed my wife too, and shot him. Brenda says she shot Greg while the couple's infant daughter was asleep in the same room. Yeah, I was pretty surprised as a mother, that she would be willing to take the life of her husband with her young child just right there.

42:41Detectives have their confession, when Brenda poses a question. She asked about the lead detective at the time in 1992, because he had been the ones who had contact with her the most at the time. Detectives learned that Brenda and the Corvallis detective had a short-lived affair. They had had a relationship, that it happened immediately, half of the crime, and it didn't last very long. You can get your phone with your friends, right? No, no, no, no. The discovery of the love affair leaves one question regarding the original investigation forever unanswered. To ask, did that compromise the case? I mean, really the only people that know that are Brenda Durand and the detective assigned to the case. But obviously, if a detective develops a personal relationship with someone involved in an event like this, I could see where potentially you could lose some objectivity. Brenda is arrested for her husband's murder, an extradited back to Oregon,

43:41where she eventually pleads guilty to manslaughter and receives a sentence of nine years. You have these pictures of a friend that's gone. For Mary Eichler, one of the first officers to respond to Greg Kirkley's murder 24 years earlier, the questions surrounding her former friend and now convicted killer are almost too much to bear. We were just starting to get really close when he was killed. So we didn't have the time to really have all the relationship we should have been able to have. And now, a whole family is just like destroyed forever. And that's really a shame. Hello and welcome to Pluto Fo. If you know the name of the movie you'd like to see, just stream it for free on Pluto TV. We're all your bloodbusters favorites are landing all summer long. Catch anchor man, the legend of Ron Burgundy.

44:41Fantastic. The Matrix trilogy. Welcome to the real world. Mean Girls. Side up. Titanic. I'm the key in the world. And so much more for showtime. Press nothing. They're free 24-7. That is so fast. On Pluto TV, stream now. Pay never.