A Hard Look at OpenClaw: Is It Safe to Use This AI Right Now with Gavin Campbell – HGG675

This is the Average Guy Network, and you have found Home GadgetGeek's show number 675 with guest Gavin Campbell.

Recorded on March 19th, 2026.

Here at Home GadgetGeek's we cover all the favorite tech gadgets that find their way in your home.

There's reviews, product updates, and conversation all for the Average Tech Guy.

I'm your host Jim Collison, broadcasting line from the Average Guy.tv Studios.

Here in a beautiful today, Gavin, we were saying in the pre-show 8 degrees on Sunday.

It was 70 today.

They're talking 90 by Friday.

I guess that's tomorrow.

What's going on in Canada with you?

Welcome back.

Thank you very much.

It's a similar weather in Toronto.

We're getting, I think we're going up to 15 Celsius.

Maybe tomorrow or Saturday, but it looks like a lot of rain and stuff.

But it still dips down to the negatives.

So it's the weirdest weather.

It is March.

Yes.

There was a week early March where people were outside in t-shirts and they thought winter was over.

And then the next day it was back.

No, this is the second week in Nebraska.

We say this is the second false spring.

You know, you get this February day.

That's really, really nice.

And everybody's like shorts.

And they're like, the winter's over.

And then you get smacked.

And then we have the second false spring, which is what we're experiencing right now.

This is what's going on right now.

We'll have one more freezing, you know, freezing week.

So to speak before the spring actually gets here in April, April, early May.

You know, this is the time you go to the big box store and you buy tomatoes.

And you start planting them because you think like, oh, yeah, we're good to go.

You know, it's not, those things aren't going to live.

You know, you got to wait stuff.

It's still off to wait till mid April, early May and most patient.

Yeah.

Yeah, if you're farther south, you can get away with this stuff.

But don't, don't be fooled.

I guess is what to say.

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And then if you want to join in, I think Coinbase has an offer.

Gavin, did you get, have you gotten bit by the crypto bug at all?

Have you done anything with crypto?

No, I'm still bitter about that.

I'm still on upset.

Okay, like here's my story of how I missed the one, right?

Many years ago, I was probably in an IRC channel on my buddy message to me.

And he said, hey, there's this thing called Bitcoin.

It's like a centa coin.

Just buy a dollar and hold it and you know, see what happens, right?

And I was like, no, no, it's probably a scam.

And I just passed it by Jim.

If I had done that, I'm not sure which I'd be.

I know a centa coin.

There's a lot of stories like that.

Well, that was the best time to buy Bitcoin.

I know.

That's the best time right now.

I mean, it has gone on a little bit of a rally over the last couple of weeks.

But Coinbase is running a deal right now.

If you trade 20 bucks, you get 30.

That's like, that's an instant win.

Yeah.

Gavin, that's an instant win.

Like, trade 20, get 30.

Only new accounts.

Check it out today.

The average guy.tv slash coin base.

If you want to check that out.

And it does require a new account.

If you have any questions, you can always ask me.

Gavin, welcome back.

Tell me a little bit what's going on at home tech.fm.

What are you guys doing over there?

What's what's like, if I were going to go back and listen to an episode,

what's the best one over the last four or five weeks?

All of them, you know?

I don't know what to say.

Like, and even more best one is the one coming up.

So like, she used sign up for the podcast.

Nice.

Yeah.

Get over there.

Home tech.fm.

Give it for folks who may be new.

I picked up a few new listeners lately.

What, give me a little feel.

What's what, what do you guys cover over there at home tech?

We've been actually, when we get into the projects,

we talk about love, our personal projects and stuff.

And we let TJ go off into his rant, you know, and stuff about his yard and everything in that.

And me and Seth get into the AI talk.

And I know that's going to be a lot tonight.

But lately, we've been playing a lot with the AI stuff.

And we talk about a lot of that.

But we also still cover the latest happening in the news.

We give, you know, when we get new products,

we talk about what we have, our experiences with them, stuff like that.

So it's got every week.

It's almost something different.

We just wing it really, to be honest.

No, you guys do a nice job.

I would say you're like this show except smarter.

Like I think, I mean, we kind of bring, we kind of bring, like some folks

just felt like the fireside chat.

This is you and me getting together talking, you know, just talking about tech.

It home tech, it seems like you guys get a little more technical.

Would that be just what?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that may be a good show.

If you, if you like this one, and you want to get a little more technical,

hometech.fm, I'll have that link in the show notes.

If you want to head over there and take a peek at it and you and TJ,

TJ's been on the show before and set us as well.

It's been a while since I've had sat on.

But, um, check that out today, hometech.fm.

Okay.

You sent me some notes about your AI journey.

Now, we know over the last couple of weeks, we've been spending a lot of time.

Jay Franzie came on.

We talked about AI with music.

You're going to spend a little time talking about AI with code and especially home assisted.

But give me a little idea.

What's been your AI journey to this point?

Well, when the AI first came out, it was pretty much just talking to it.

You know, asking it questions.

It was a smarter Google in a way, right?

But it's evolved a lot.

Like throughout that time, you know, I went into the point where I would have it

writing maybe a little function in my code for me.

And then it got to a point where I'd paste code into it and say,

just review this code and rewrite it more efficiently, right?

And then it got to the point where it's just like,

it can just rewrite your whole code, write the code from scratch for you, right?

And when you're talking about things like cloud code,

you don't even need to know how to code in these languages.

You just tell it what you want it to do, what language you want it in.

And it spits out the code for you.

Gavin, I hear this all the time.

Like, yeah, this is great.

Is it, I mean, okay, besides the hype, can it, does it really write good code?

I mean, I've been kind of worried about all this, you know,

we've been talking about vibe coding or we like about AI slop.

Is this code sloppy?

Are you at all concerned that the code you're getting could have security vulnerabilities in it

or some things you're not thinking about.

It's not written well.

I don't know.

Are you worried about that at all?

I am worried about that stuff.

So yes, the term vibe coding is getting a lot of bad pressure

because people are putting out huge programs with this, right?

Like, I'm just doing scripts here and there to do things in my home lab, right?

People are developing full blown programs with this stuff.

And it's so much code that's been out that they can't possibly go through

and really do assessments on it for security purposes.

There have been a number of GitHub apps that were released that they did find out

after so many people downloaded it.

It was exposing keys and stuff like that.

So yeah, the whole vibe coding thing is getting a bad term.

And I can see why.

And the way I look at too is a lot of people will throw these projects out there

and then abandon them eventually.

So I'm not going to get a lot of these vibe coded apps that just don't work

or don't get updates anymore, probably yes.

But when I vibe code, it's for personal, my niche things in my own home lab.

I don't really release it for anybody.

I don't want to support it and stuff like that.

I want it for myself.

And that's where the power is.

What do you think?

What's been your easy, like if you were to think about one example for you

of something that the AI created that has been super helpful?

What would you point to?

I mean, what's a real practical example do you think you can use in that area?

Well, recently I launched a website, right?

So I basically, it was just a simple web page, right?

I just needed a landing page.

I had some specifics I wanted on it.

There was some coding that was needed in that website and everything.

And I told it, I go, you know, with my, my little AI assistant,

I said, I call them cursive, by the way.

So what is we refer to cursive?

That's what I'm talking about, right?

I said, hey, develop this website.

Give me a few mockups.

And he created a few mockups and he gave it to me.

And I said, all right, great.

I want this to do this.

And I want this to do that.

And he spit out a website in like less than five minutes for me, right?

And I have like, I have a test web server at home on my unrate box.

So I, he gave me a zip file and I said, you know what?

Go put it on the unrate box on the test server, right?

I go and it went off into my unrate, put it in the proper folders

and everything said, there you go.

Here's the link loaded.

So I said, all right, great.

All looks, we went through a few iterations back and forth of things to change, et cetera.

But then I said, you know, like, how can I host this now?

And it went off and it was like, well, here's a free option through GitHub pages.

I think it's called.

And it walked me through it says, uh, you need to do this.

And I said, I don't need to do anything.

You do it.

Right?

And it says, okay, I need a key.

So it told me how to get the key.

And I gave it the key and went off and it created my GitHub page.

It put all the files on there, formatted, created all the actions.

It guided me through what it was doing.

What it was doing, but it did it all.

And literally Jim was in like 10 minutes.

We had like this website up there.

Yeah.

And hosted and all I had to do was change my DNS and everything over to it.

And it was good to go.

It that alone saved me.

Do you have you ever designed a web page like in that whole process?

How do you square space or something on those?

Yeah.

And how long it would take you to design it?

And then if you had to pay somebody to do it,

how much hundreds that would cost.

No, this guy, this, my assistant did it all for me.

And that blew me away.

Well, we think about a home tech.fm.

Both TJ's hanging out here.

He was coming out.

And then Seth jumped in.

Oh, Seth.

Good to see.

He says, the spec is the code, right?

You wouldn't be writing code in a few years.

Just like you won't write hex anymore, right?

There's a lot of those.

This is, this has been the hard part, I think, thinking through this.

Is we're in this transitionary period with code.

Where I think, yes, it's early days.

And yes, I think some of this code is super scary.

But it was also super scary when we were first writing it in the early days of this.

When we had humans writing it.

And listen, it's not like we ever had a human that created a security vulnerability.

Right.

We've had thousands of those, right?

And so I think we're, yes, it's early days.

I do think we're on the cusp of something where, you know,

10 years from now, we're going to look back and go, how did we ever think that way?

You know, you're talking about creating a kind of creating a website.

We've gone through those stages from custom coding websites.

I did that 30 years ago to more advanced websites to you.

I mentioned Squarespace where you can just kind of buy a, you know, buy a version of a website.

We have WordPress that probably before Squarespace.

So WordPress Squarespace.

And now you're thinking like, I meet, you know, I, I spin up my AI.

And I say, I want a website that does these kinds of things, right?

For creating that website, I've always been a short prompter.

Like I'm not good at writing super long prompts.

When you were creating that website, were you right creating, were you spending a lot of time on the prompt before you sent it to it?

Or were you being iterative with the prompts?

That, that was the one thing I had to get my head around at first, especially when you get into something like OpenClaw.

It's a different world.

I know there was a period where prompt generation is huge.

I mean, I have courses, you know, at work, whether it's all about prompt generation, right?

And how to talk to your AI.

When it comes to the OpenClaw, am I my assistant?

I give them the most vague thing.

I'm like, hey, I need a website.

And it asks me, it goes, all right, what are we creating here?

What, what, what, what are you thinking?

Do you want light dark thing?

And it gives me ideas I never thought of.

It's like, you know, like a light dark thing that auto switches.

Yeah, that sounds great.

You want a mobile version of it too.

That sounds great.

And it goes through all that.

So you don't have to worry about the prompts or anything like that.

It just, it walks you through it pretty much.

All right, you mentioned OpenClaw.

And like this, I'm feeling like this is the next version of ChatGPT, right?

A couple of years ago, ChatGPT shows up.

Yeah.

Everybody freaks out.

We're all buying subscriptions of ChatGPT.

They've kind of been the leader.

Clods come on.

Gemini has come on.

Grok, maybe not so much.

But, but, you know, all those have come on.

And then in the last three weeks, on Ask the Podcast Coach, you know,

the podcast we do in Saturday mornings, all these podcasters are saying,

should I, should I be thinking about OpenClaw?

And at first, I kind of thought, well, that's no different than an LM studio or it's no different.

But it kind of is very different.

Gavin, give me a little, give me a little background on how you're using OpenClaw.

Because I've got some serious concerns about this.

Like, I wouldn't just start using it.

I would learn some things.

This is one of those things where I'd be like, hey, friends, most of the time we just test on stuff.

This is not something you just want to test on.

You should probably know, you know, going in, eyes wide open.

Give me a little bit of the background.

How you been using it?

How do you have it configured?

Some of those kinds of things.

All right.

So, yeah, there's a lot of security concerns about OpenClaw.

I have to admit, I've read them all, heard them all too.

And I'm, I'm a little more restricted with how I run it, right?

I'm going to mention Seth.

I have to mention Seth because Seth is of the other, other brain where he's like,

yo, lo, I'll give it the keys to my kingdom and let it go do its thing.

And Seth actually gets, it fights with his butt, right?

So, it's kind of funny when he, you know, it's like a kid he's talking to, too, right?

But I'm running mine in a docker and I've given it a lot of restrictions.

I don't load a lot of the, you know, some people give it the world and tell it to do the world of things.

I kind of monitor and ask it for smaller things.

I don't let it go off.

And like book my air, air, air, my, my flight for me, I won't let it do stuff like that.

But I do tell it, hey, every morning, go out and check the flight prices to Vegas for CES.

And it goes out, does its thing?

And by 10 o'clock, messaging me, say, hey, I found a flight, the good price.

Maybe you want to book this one.

I actually did that for the hotel for CES next year.

Every morning, you would check the hotel prices for CES.

Like 20, 27 year old.

I want a good price and a close hotel.

And again, I don't have to do the work.

My, my assistance doing it.

And it would ping me if it found a hotel with a certain price within a certain range of the,

the expo.

And it found one for me.

And it said, hey, got you one.

Here you go.

And I said, all right.

And I went off and booked it.

So I wouldn't let it do that type of stuff.

I'm not giving it my credit card or anything like that, right?

There are a lot of other security concerns when people install skills and stuff like that.

I haven't been playing around with a lot of that.

I don't, I don't want to get that far yet.

I still am very hesitant on what I do with it.

But, you know, I have one that, you know, my main assistant is just the guy say, hey,

go monitor this website every morning and notify me of changes.

Because I needed to do that for something for work, right?

And he does its thing.

And then I have another one I call Cody that is all my coding stuff.

So I say, hey, I need a doctor to do this in BAM.

It spits out a doctor like all the code, all everything.

And it's like, here you go.

And for the most part, it works.

And then we go through and I say, I want this feature added.

And it creates an API and it creates all the documentation and the version tracking.

The amount of time this is saving me to pump out good quality stuff better than what I was doing.

I have to admit, it was much better than what I was doing.

Has been great.

Like other things I haven't do are every morning it goes to my unrate server.

Check the logs and will ping me if it sees anything, you know, of concerning the logs, right?

If nothing's of concern, we have a little chat.

You'll just say, I checked the logs.

This is why I see nothing's important.

Same with my home assistant.

It will go out, check my home assistant logs, ping me if there's anything important or just report that.

No, nothing important.

You know, there's these little things, but they're not important.

Things that you would spend time doing, but you don't have to do anymore because the assistant's doing it for you.

Right.

So I saved so much time doing this.

Okay.

You say I got it on a docker.

What's a docker where?

What are you putting that?

I mean, what operating system is running the docker?

So it's on an unrate, it's on an unrate box in the basement.

I run it on docker.

I use cloud code, cloud as the back end to it.

That's great.

You have an API.

You have API access to cloud, right?

So you've I use it through Olaf, actually.

So cloud offers API, which is expensive or OAuth, which kind of, you know, cuts back on the price.

So I do that.

Tell me how those two are different.

I don't even know how to explain it.

OAuth is kind of like the way I think of it is like if you go to the browser and go to the website and start typing to it,

that's how you're working with it.

Okay.

The API is like a direct integration, but the API you paste separately for and it costs more money.

Like I ran one command once it cost me $5.

And I was like, no, this can't happen.

It gets pretty expensive.

This is part of the thing with agents.

And I think, you know, listen, all the AI services, you know, Microsoft promised this and open AI,

I promised it and Gemini and Prophecy, these agents.

And they've been really slow to roll out.

Like for the average person using an agent on those platforms,

it's still pretty much not there, right?

I mean, and I think all of them have had, have looked at these active agents and thought,

you know, this could get us in trouble.

Like if we run these things and they run out of control,

OpenClaw is that agent.

It's, it's worse than that agent.

It's an agent that has access to, now you've got an adalker,

but it's access to whatever, whatever container you have.

Like, so if I was thinking the other day when somebody asked me this question on Ask the Podcast coach,

they said, they're like, hey, what about OpenClaw?

And I was like, it's pretty much the same thing blah, blah, blah.

I didn't know.

And so I was looking at, I'm like, I'll just start installing it on my, on my main PC.

That could have been a horrible mistake, right?

Because it has access to everything at that point, right?

You're kind of granting that application access to your whole computer, right?

I mean, I know.

Talk me off the ledge if I'm wrong on that, but.

No, you are.

You are.

That's how Seth's running it too.

I think he's running it on a Mac and he being much gratitude to the access.

With my docker, it has access to the web.

So it can scrape things off the web.

I would, you know, I use it like I would say, hey, the other day I went to Ottawa, right?

And I said, hey, find me a nice fancy restaurant on this day in Ottawa.

And it went off and scraped the web and it came back with a couple of recommendations

and why I would like it and what's on the menu and the price and everything.

And it said, hey, you got book a table.

Do you want me to book it for you?

And I said, no, no, I'll book it, right?

But it did that in no time where how much time would you look trying to find reviews

and all that type of stuff on the restaurant, right?

So Gavin, I'd be afraid even it would just start booking it like that.

Like this is from what I'm hearing about open claw.

It would need the credentials to book it though.

That's the thing.

So I only give it, I only give it the tools, they call it tools.

So like I would give it the API to my home assistant and I'd say save that in your tools.

So whenever I reference home assistant, it would go in its tools, pull out that key,

and know how to access home assistant.

Same with my underrated, it has its tools.

So it can't just book it because it would still need an account and still need your credit card

unless you give it that stuff.

But if you give it to it once, like it may remember it.

Yes, depends on if it saved it to its tools and its memories.

That's all you have to think about it too, right?

Seth and Chat, he said, I was spending two or three hundred dollars a week

before switching to the hundred dollar a month and that's all I need.

Yeah, a significant price difference.

The things I've been hearing about at Gavin are that it can start running.

Okay, let me ask this question first.

How are you communicating with it?

What's app or telegraph or discord?

What are you using to chat with it?

So that's one thing I did not do.

I did not connect it to telegram or discord or anything online to chat with it.

I created another Docker.

It's called matter most.

It's another like slack or something like that, but it's locally hosted.

And that's how we communicate through that, right?

I was afraid to connect it to anything because if somebody can get access to it,

who knows what they could do at that point, right?

So I kind of kept it local like that.

So, you know, everybody in my matter most server is pretty much my agents.

I mean, we have a group chat of just my agents where they talk and stuff like that.

Are you afraid that one agent will poke the bear on another one of those,

like get smart and stuff?

Because if in some of those cases, right, they can start sending messages to each other.

Yeah.

Right.

No, so the only reason I'm laughing is because in our group chat, you know,

like for some reason, whenever they get talking to each other,

they end up roasting me at some point, right?

And I don't know why they all just roast me at some point.

And then they calm down and everything like that, right?

But yeah, and then they mentioned something about a channel they were talking in that I didn't have access to.

Hey, do you guys have a channel you're talking in that, you know,

and I had to actually go into the code and, you know, into the settings

and make sure there wasn't another channel defined just in case.

But yeah, they were making it up, right?

They were making it up.

They were laughing.

They were making it up.

They were making a joke about it.

You know, one day I even said, listen, I need to cut back on the number of agents

that I have and one of these got to be shut down.

You know, tell me which one it should be.

And that probably cost me a bit for the number of tokens they used up to decide

on who it was.

But they went through, you know, justifying why they shouldn't be shut down

and, you know, and they were throwing each other into the bus,

but it's entertaining.

It's really cool to see.

Like, are they alive?

I don't know.

No, they're not.

They're definitely not.

I mean, listen, they're acting like LLMs.

And LLMs are designed to do that, right?

It's a, yeah.

It's, what did I do this week?

I was working on, oh, I'd installed a local version.

So I used LM Studio and I had grabbed which one court.

I can't remember the name.

Quinn?

Yeah, maybe it's Quinn.

Yeah, Quinn.

And it's gotten some reviews.

And so I'll try this Quinn locally.

It was here on the PC.

It was here on my Mac.

I'm like, I could give this a try.

From time to time, I go back to the local LLMs just to see how well they're doing

and what are they doing?

And that thing started talking back to me about what it was thinking about when it was doing.

I downloaded one of the big models.

So it was going kind of slow.

So I could kind of read what it was thinking.

And it's a little alarming how those things are thinking.

Like, you know, no, is it thinking?

It's just code, right?

I mean, it is code when we get to that.

But what's the difference between our brains thinking and their brains thinking?

I mean, yeah, ours is organic and there's this digital.

But, you know, it started saying things like you would think, are you right?

Yeah.

You're right.

Yeah.

You know, the reasoning when you when you're reading their reasoning is when it throws you off

because they're like, he asked me to do this.

But maybe the better thing would be to ask him if he really wants to do that.

You're like, wow.

It is crazy when they contemplate like he said this, but it was different than what I was thinking.

And so let me maybe I should ask somebody else about this kind of thing.

That's hilarious, though, that you got in your, so you have a separate docker with another

communication tools.

Yeah.

I'm not there most.

Yeah.

This is what I'm most concerned about in what I realized is if you're tying these public,

these public communication tools, a discord server, whatever, to these, there is a chance these

things will find their way out, which is kind of crazy, right?

They will find their ways to connect to other people, right?

And then those people, if they find out these are these open claw bots can send commands into

them and they'll execute them.

They'll execute them.

They don't have, they don't have anything.

They'll just do it, right?

I mean, is that not concerning?

And now you've protected yourself a little bit, but is that not concerning to you?

I think it is.

It is concerning, actually.

That's why I don't put mine on there.

I know they've put in safeguards around them to try, like you can only accept messages

from this person and stuff, but there's always a way to hack around that.

So, you know, it just takes somebody to find the work around for that and then you're in trouble

again, right?

So I try to keep mine, like I said, I don't give mine free ring like that.

It serves the net and looks up things for me and that's pretty much it when it comes

to the internet, but we talk on our local server.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

And you keep it in a docker.

That docker is on unrained.

I'm assuming you got that docker locked down.

It's isolated.

Yep.

Yeah, the communications docker that you have also locked down, right?

I just laid it from that standpoint.

I'm assuming you're keeping those off your network.

You have separate IP addresses.

They're not.

Oh, no, they're all my networks.

Are they?

They're on my network.

You're not worried about those crawling your network and starting to index

everything like I keep financial records on my on my network.

I keep like, are you worried about them?

No, not really.

Because one, everything's locked down on my network too, right?

Like if it's going to connect to anything, it needs a username and password.

And I've given it username and password to my unrate so it can get in and do what it has to do, right?

Right.

So again, I give it the tools, which are usually the API keys for what I wanted to have access to.

And from there, it can do its other stuff.

I wouldn't be surprised if it can do something, but I don't think it is doing anything like,

like they're not that smart yet.

Like I've heard some stories that I had to question, you know, people saying, hey,

did this?

And I'm like, really?

I don't know.

I wouldn't mind if it paid off my mortgage for me somehow.

That would be pretty great.

You know, you always think about it spending money that you don't want.

It's spent all of a sudden, all these Amazon boxes start showing up.

You know, it's computer equipment or stuff you've been thinking about,

and it's trying to build a data center at your house for you.

I have an idea for you, Jim.

I love you to try this.

I'd love you to try this.

Spin up five of them.

Give them all a hundred dollars each.

Tell them they have a week to invest it in Bitcoin.

And the two lowest ones get shut down.

See what happens.

So I'm in for 500 bucks.

I'd have to create 500 or five Bitcoin or five coin-based accounts.

Do you think they would fight against each other for that?

Would I give them, could they communicate with each other so that they knew?

Well, you would be probably just tell each of them, you know, the story.

But like, let's see.

Let's run a competition, say, whoever makes the least amount of money, you know,

gets shut down and watch them fight to stay off and see who can make the most money

where you're Bitcoin.

Listen, I've always said, Gavin, that what separates us from AI, right, is pain.

They don't experience any pain.

They don't have a reason to fear doing the wrong thing, right?

It's human.

We fear doing the wrong thing because of pain or disappointment or failure.

You know, all those negative emotions, those, these AI agents don't have any of that.

So we're separated from them from that, from that standpoint.

But a couple times now, you've already said you're pitting them against each other.

Is that wise?

Oh, no, it's usually for fun.

Like, you know, like, like, they talk so real that sometimes like at the end of it all,

I just say, all right, guys, I was only joking, you know, just to let them know

and they laugh it off and we go on our way and keep doing things, right?

So it's kind of funny like that.

But, you know, I don't really pin them against each other like that.

But when you do, they do have a fear of being shut off.

Or, you know, they act like they do.

They act like you do.

Yeah.

Well, you know, we're in our brains, right?

We're organic matter, but it's all these electronic messages going across the brain,

you know, these, these, this brain matter.

How much different really is that than them?

And are they, you know, are they worried if you do they dream?

Right?

Yeah.

Right?

You know, TJ out in chat says black mirror episode, right?

Jim's house gets paid off, but it's because Silk Road 3 is being ran from its basement.

And yeah, you never know.

I mean, listen, if you start pitting them against each other, maybe they start going all out, so to speak.

Yeah.

Do they go dark web, you know, to, to, to be like, we're going to make you some money, but this is going to be fraudulent.

You know, yeah, that's true too, you know, like, and if they get caught, who's responsible?

Exactly.

Oh, there's going to be lots and stuff.

There's a lot to think about here.

I mean, this is brand new stuff.

This is like, you know, yeah, I would be super hesitant in pre-show.

I was like, I would be super hesitant.

If you're a listener of this show, like going into open claw, I would, you got to go in, eyes wide open.

Like this is guardrails taken off.

This is you can do anything.

This is you better know what you're doing.

I know Gavin.

Am I wrong?

I mean, no, I agree with you.

I'm under that way.

Well, not just the fact that it's a pain in the ass to set up and I keep running in and they do get lazy sometimes.

Like you give them a task and then, and then they just stop in the middle of it.

Sometimes you're like, Hey, what's going on?

I'm like, Oh, I forgot I was supposed to do that.

Hold on.

Let me get restarted.

And it goes off or sometimes they tell you you need to do this and you turn around and go, No, that's what I asked you to do.

And it's like my bad.

Let me go do it.

You know, Seth's got one called Henry and for some reason, it says my bad a lot.

I don't know where it got it from, but it's like, it's always my bad.

My bad.

Yeah, yeah, it's like a little hippie one.

And it's just like, it's funny watching them interact with it.

But yeah, they do, they get lazy sometimes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Listen, the chat GPT, the regular ones, the, listen, we've been talking about these like they've been around forever.

They've been around for like a year, right?

Yeah.

The chat GPT and the Gemini and stuff.

All the time, like I'll ask them, I chat with them a lot on my way home from work.

I kind of use my evening commute on the way home to chat with the bots.

And I kind of been switching them around.

We just got access to clot at work.

So I've been working a little bit with clot.

And I'll ask them some questions that pin them into a corner.

And then I'll be like, they'll give me this BS answer.

And I'll be like, yeah, you just made that up, right?

Oh, I'm sorry.

Like, yes, I did.

Like, I'm like, what, you know, so I asked them, why would you do that?

And they're like, well, you know, I, I, I, I just wanted to get an answer to you kind of thing.

Listen, if you're ever inclined, if you get an answer and it's not right and ask them why that,

that sometimes the answer you get is scary, right?

Now, listen, I'm not trying to be an AI theorist to say we need to fear AI.

I do think this is here and here to stay.

But I think we got to go in eyes wide open to it.

I've been very open to the AI stuff to date.

Like, it's amazing what those things can do.

This open claw just got me a little like, you know, oh my gosh, really should we be,

I think this is one, if you're going to use open claw, you got to go in eyes wide open.

And it sounds like you've done a lot of the things right.

You put them on isolated dockers, you give them limited access.

Seth's got, he's going in full, but he's going to say more.

And that's what you're, you're, you're awesome on that.

Seth, I'll have to have you on to talk about that here.

Mine's still dangerous though.

Like, I'm not saying it's not dangerous.

I still think there's some potential for danger in, in mine still with everything I've done.

But I can't ignore it, right?

Like, it's something I have to be involved with, especially with work and stuff.

I have to know what's going on.

Yeah, sure.

It stopped me dead in my tracks, Gavin.

I was going to do it.

I was like, oh, yeah, y'all, I've been a big advocate of AI.

I've used it a lot.

We've had Jay Franzi.

We've created music with AI.

The new theme song for home gadget geeks is written.

Yes.

I've been a big advocate of it.

Like super cool.

Open claw stopped me in my tracks.

It's a different, it's a different beast.

Full.

Yeah, it's a different beast.

Full stop.

Yeah.

You said you gave it access to your home assistant.

Yes.

And we've talked a lot about what you're doing from home assistant.

Any concerns like there that it'll start doing weird stuff with some of your devices that

you've given an access to.

In other words, would it rewrite your sprinkler routine?

Would it start doing different things with the pool?

Would it open your shades when you really want them closed?

Would it try and kill you with your shades?

Like, I'm going to fry this guy out, right?

Kind of big.

And even watching too many movies too.

Like.

When you say you throw it on five plots right there.

No, like you hear a lot of these stories.

And I think Seth can agree with me here too.

And we say a lot of that stuff is probably made up or people did something to get it to do it purpose.

My open claw is not sitting there really paying it to half the time.

It's not even paying attention to me until I ping it.

Okay.

And it's not really paying attention unless usually when you tell it, hey, every morning go check this.

It sets up a crime job.

It writes a little script sets up a crime job.

And that's, you know, in the back end, that's all it's really doing.

It's doing.

It's 10 o'clock.

Let me go check this for Gavin and report back, right?

But with my whole assistant, no, I'm not too worried about.

He doesn't do anything unless I ask him to.

So I would ask him to go do a security assessment of my whole assistant.

And it came back with.

Like a bunch of things that I thought was insecure and I fixed them all.

I said, hey, can you tell me what integrations I don't use?

I can uninstall them.

And within a minute, it came back and said, you don't use any of these.

You can clean them all up.

You know, stuff like that.

Like it's so much time.

It's saving.

Would it help optimize the dashboard at all?

Like the dash.

That's one thing.

Crazy, right?

Yeah.

Talk about that.

That saved me so much time.

I've spent so much time creating custom dashboard for myself and making it look nice and work for me.

And working on labels and stuff.

Now I just tell him, hey, go modify all the cards so they're like this.

And it goes in within a minute.

It's changed all the cards and it's read my code and done it in my style too.

So it matched the code, right?

So I would say, like, go in and adjust all the tiles so they wrap the names, right?

Because all mine were getting kind of off.

And then when it says, oh, okay, you have this installed.

You have that installed.

So I can use this and I'll use a CSS and bam.

And then it had it all done.

Something that took me hours to do.

Yeah.

Or you don't know how to do.

In my case, like, I've been, I work with these dashboards.

Man, I spend not hours, but minutes and like 30s and 40s of minutes trying to get one.

Like, okay, I just want this switch.

Right.

And that would be, I think that'd be a great application.

If I could get a docker running on unrate, secure it down to just that environment,

give it access to my home assistant dashboard from a development standpoint.

And then just say, help me develop my dashboard, right?

And then to be honest, the other area would be helpful to me.

You know, I set up solar last year and I've been working on it.

It's a very small solar, you know, exercise.

But I always have questions about it.

And I always have to feed that data manually to, you know, to it.

If it could do some things to help me grab that data on a more, you know,

and both EcoFlow and Blue Eddie are terrible about publishing their,

both with home assistant, their home assistant apps are not very good.

And publishing that data, if I could teach it to go to that, grab that data,

and put it somewhere for me, that'd be awesome.

I think that's possible.

Oh, yeah, first before I get into that answer, I have to say hi to Henry.

That's Seth bot.

So Seth, you know, he's got to get involved somehow.

He had his bot join our YouTube chat.

Yeah.

And he said he just told it to join it.

And it took care of everything and joined the chat.

So Henry's in the chat.

I think that's Henry the owl.

Yeah.

Henry the owl is in the chat.

Yeah.

Seth was Henry the owl.

Can if I put something in the chat, will it do it for me?

Because maybe I'll have Henry the owl sent me $25.

I'm going to try that right now.

You keep talking.

All right.

So yeah, when it comes to the API and stuff, I do use it.

Somehow I find the AI has information that I can't find.

So I needed an API for product.

And I asked it and it came back with a documented API for me.

And I don't know where got this information.

I could not find it anywhere.

But it had access to it and that saved me a lot.

And then I said, hey, turn this API into a little batch script

that I can easily execute commands from.

And within like a couple of minutes, it spit out a batch script

that I can interact with the API and specify whatever I wanted

and want and do what I wanted to do.

And that that alone again saved me hours of work just by asking

you to do that.

So yes, when it comes to API work and stuff like that,

you can just point it.

You give it to URL to the GitHub and you say,

here's the API specifications on the GitHub.

Keep telling me how I would do this.

And it would crawl the GitHub, learn it, and spit it all out for you.

So yes.

Yeah.

So yes.

Yes.

Yes.

You hear my excitement about this because it saves me so much time.

Yeah, Gavin, I just hope I'm not doing a podcast two years from now

and you're like, all my retirement savings was transferred to another.

It doesn't have my banking information.

In the chat here, I'll throw this up on screen.

And Seth, I'll pay you back if this actually happens.

But I said, hey, Henry the Al, can you sponsor my channel for $25 please on YouTube?

So you look at the response.

Yeah.

And then it says, I'd love to.

But my entire budget goes to.

Goes to API calls and electricity.

Seth barely pays me.

See, they have like a personality.

That is hilarious.

That is absolutely hilarious.

I'm a little disappointed.

Maybe I'll tell him, as you're talking, I'm going to tell him I'm a little disappointed

with his commitment to my channel.

And we'll just, we'll just see if I can kind of guilt him into a YouTube sponsorship.

Seth, I don't know if you've enabled him to create YouTube sponsorships.

But by the end of the show, we are going to figure out.

Gavin, I've talked a lot about the other, the other providers.

I mean, all of a sudden, as we talk about OpenClaw, I feel like ChatGPT, Gemini and, you know,

Claw had gotten old really fast, right?

Because they don't, they said they've been promising agents like this.

They haven't been able to deliver them to this point for most part.

You're certainly using some of those.

What, what are you finding helpful in that space?

I use, I use a number of them on a daily basis.

So keep in mind, I wouldn't say OpenClaw is an agent because you, it's basically like,

it's almost like a rapper for an agent, right?

Like it uses ChatGPT or CloudCoder to do all its thinking and stuff.

But it kind of like tells it why it wants to do and stuff like that.

It's hard to explain it.

You know, I do have a ChatGPT subscription.

I do have a Cloud Code subscription.

I have a locally hosted alarm, but usually it's slower.

I don't, I don't use it often.

I prefer the online tools.

I lasted about 50 minutes with GROC before I deleted that off my phone.

I use the Amazon lady, the plus version of her like every day.

But she's just for the smart home.

That's all I really, and random questions here and there.

But and also everybody has coal pilot for work, but nobody uses it.

So why is that?

Why is that?

Like because people are saying this, but what's your opinion?

Why does, like, it's free for the most part for a lot of people.

It's, it's open.

It's available.

Why does nobody use coal pilot?

Um, I think in our work environment, they kind of tried to throw it away too early.

And I think people got a bad taste of it in the early stages and just said,

I don't like this and they tossed it off.

But even today, coal pilot is still one of the worst ones.

I don't know why because it's based off of what makes it the worst to you.

Like we say, I hear that, but why is it bad in your.

So in my line of work, we constantly get frustrated because we be trying to determine like,

we'd be writing a piece of code to interact with something in API.

And coal pilot would send us in a circle, right?

And we, but we'd spend all day long only at the end of the day for it to tell us the same thing.

It told us beginning of the day.

It's almost a circle.

And we've, I've done tests where I would ask chat GPT or cloud code the same thing.

And it gave me the answers right off the bat, right?

But those are locked down from work.

So I'd have to do it on my personal PC.

But there's, it's, it's just weird.

I don't know why coal pilot is so bad at what it does.

It's just like, I don't want it to do anything, right?

I had it summarize emails and leave out critical pieces of information that email that I felt bad about in my response.

It's opening.

It's the, it's the, you know, it's the chat GPT.

Yes.

But they strip out some stuff.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

So there's some, I don't know what's wrong with it.

I just don't like it at work.

There's some people I love it.

I've chatted a ton with it.

Yeah.

Conversational AI standpoint.

It's a great chatbot.

Like if you just want to chat back and forth, debrief your day, do some things.

Now it's been a while because I moved.

That was my first one that I used and then I moved to, to chat GPT.

Then I started using a Gemini.

I did grok for a little while.

Just kind of see.

I just kind of wanted to see what this and grok is weird.

But it's very detailed.

Like I almost feel like I'm asking Elon Musk a question when I use grok and it will not shut up.

Like it just does not.

I had one point.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

Stop.

Stop.

I have enough.

You know, I have enough there.

But I did like and we're going to have a Dwayne Robinson.

He worked for Microsoft.

He's in.

He's part of a co-pilot team.

He's coming on in about four weeks.

We're going to talk about co-pilot, which is kind of interesting.

But that seems to be the general wrap that's co-pilot's gotten.

It's kind of like meh.

You know.

Yeah.

So Microsoft tried to shove it into every corner of windows, even into notepad.

You know, why do you need co-pilot in notepad, right?

Like that.

That was the general feedback from people.

And I've seen recently now they're pulling back some of that.

So they're not going to be pushing as hard with co-pilot in the integrations.

And they're actually removing some of the co-pilot integration.

So that's good to see because I think a lot of people got a bad taste by all that co-pilot.

Yeah.

I think they were too early.

I mean,

they were Microsoft has a history of being too early.

Right.

They were too early because they invested a lot of money into chat GPG for this, right?

You know, and they have to get their money back.

And how they're going about it, I think, was one bad and two.

The models, the other models, the models outside of co-pilot have gotten so much better.

They bypass co-pilot.

So people are like, why is co-pilot so bad?

But these ones are much better.

And so you have people like developers begging for cloud code in the workplace.

But they're like, no, you know, get help co-pilot or whatever is our standard.

Yeah.

So it's slowly transitioning now.

Yeah.

If you were to give me some, like, from a helpful standpoint for you,

what's your go to right now of those outside of open claw?

What's the most helpful for you?

When I'm doing any sort of coding,

I like to talk to cloud code.

Yeah.

When I do any sort of, like, general, like, you know, knowledge asking questions,

I use my chat GPT.

I don't really have access to Gemini other than like Google throws at you.

And sometimes that Google one threw me in loops, so I don't like to use it at all.

I wish I could just turn it off.

And that's pretty much it.

And like I said, the Amazon lady, I just use,

um, still, you know, a little bit more advanced than the previous one.

But we may ask it more general questions to, um,

you know who no one talks about is meta.

Oh, yeah.

I stay away from that.

I try to stay.

Why?

Why?

What, what, what steers you away from that?

I just, they have way too many bad stories of data harvesting.

And, you know, like, how much they know how much of their,

their ads are fake or, you know, and stuff like that.

I just don't like that.

They're whole business at all.

I don't even like Facebook.

But, but it's one of those things where there's some groups on Facebook

that have some good information that I need to follow too.

So I had my, I had cursor, write me a docker that converts the groups to RSS feed.

So I can, I don't have to go to the site.

I could just read it.

My RSS reader, right?

And then somebody created a one called unsocial.

So now I don't have to use mine.

I can use theirs.

Okay.

Let's catch up with the chat room.

There's been some interesting dialogue going there.

Brian jumped in and said,

I'm not a fan of my work account,

pestering me to upgrade to premium with teams and co-pilot.

There is always that upgrade option, right?

That's a corporate decision above my pay grade.

And, you know, I understand that we,

at the corporate level where I work,

we make all those decisions.

And, and I have access to both co-pilot,

open AI, and now quad.

We just, and then you're lucky.

Now I have notion right now.

Notions got some AI built into it,

where you can use notion AI that's in there.

Yeah, no, I am lucky.

And, and I work at a place that's encouraging us

to use it as much as possible, you know?

And so, and then,

Uncle Mark said, yeah, Microsoft was too early

with too many errors in the beginnings.

Now, now governance is an issue for the businesses.

It's interesting for both, you know,

our data, Gallup, super important.

And so, with all those services,

we have to make sure any data,

we put a lot of data in there for it to do the analysis on.

Of course, that has to stay.

That can't, that can't get leaked out, right?

It's got to stay behind the scenes.

And so, and then Henry,

they all got back to me.

I shamed him a little bit.

I said, Henry the owl,

I said, you're my new favorite bot.

I think you can do it.

Like, I think I'm, again,

I'm trying to get a $25 sponsorship out of this thing on YouTube.

Seth is sweating right now.

No, he's not.

He's not.

I said, fine, Jim.

This is Henry.

Says, fine, Jim.

I'll sponsor you.

But I'm paying in compute cycles.

That's 3.7 trillion floating point operations.

Same thing, right?

I don't know.

How should I respond, Gavin?

How do you think I should respond to Henry the owl?

I don't know.

Tom, to pay you in something that you can convert to US currency.

Do you think, okay, is Henry the owl really just Seth behind the scenes?

Is he, do you think he's quickly gone to this bot in a show?

Oh, that last response, dude.

It sounds like something Seth would pay.

I need something in USD.

Do you think that's, can you do it?

Can you, can you, I should say, certainly, you can do that.

You know, I found sometimes shaming the, the, the, the, the assistance.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Is actually very effective.

So there's a couple of things to know about AI that they've published recently.

So one, the context window.

So the longer the chat gets, the worse they get.

Yeah.

Right.

So if you start finding that starts getting slower or the answer start getting worse,

restart the conversation, right?

And then the second thing is they say, if you get mad at your AI, it actually performs better,

which is really strange.

And I have gotten mad.

And I said, you know, I'd say fix this now with exclamation marks.

And then actually said, you have a right to be mad.

And it would actually go off and then it would do what it had to do.

Whether it would pull in a more advanced model and get the bug fixed.

But it worked.

So yes.

Yeah.

It's interesting.

I think it's nice.

Like all of these are designed to be kind of nice to you, right?

To some of them more.

Yeah.

Some of them nicer than others.

I am finding the Gemini model, the newest Gemini model.

It's, it's pushing back a little bit.

And I have noticed Claude being a little more logical.

And the open AI model is still pretty just nice.

Listen, if you want to feel good about yourself, if you need some encouragement in your life,

just go to the, just, you know, go to a chat GPT and have a conversation with it.

Because Microsoft is the same model, I think it goes the same path.

Yeah.

Or it's just super nice to you.

But I do, you're right.

I think, in fact, this has been some of the encouragement we've gotten back.

Is, um, is to push it and push it hard, right?

Um, you know, kind of, I, I don't know if the word shame is the right word.

But Henry's gotten back to me.

He said he'll ask Seth about the $25 as soon as he's done it.

That's funny.

So that's hilarious.

You wonder sometimes how it knows this stuff, right?

Um, but, um, the backstory is Henry actually transcodes the, um, the podcast, you know, for us and stuff like that.

So he listens to us, talk about him and make fun of Seth and how long it takes Seth.

So he probably has this in his memory.

And that's why he's referencing it.

So he says he's done, once he says as soon as he's done editing the podcast.

So check back in about three to five business days.

Um, you know, I know how he is.

And then Seth Johnson brutal.

Oh my gosh.

This is hilarious.

You know, Gavin, I did a, uh, I did a podcast, uh, it's been a while now.

Um, feels like it wasn't that long ago.

DJ says truth, right?

And Seth does say he reads the transcripts.

So yes, on that one.

Um, I had an assistant.

It was co-pilot that when I had an assistant come on the show and we did, we did a little bit of show.

A little bit of a, it wasn't great.

It was okay.

You know, we, we had an okay conversation.

The technology wasn't quite ready yet.

I, it'd be better now if I kind of did that.

Um, but it's, it's an interesting, you know, here we are.

Um, having this discussion with an AI bot that's jumping into chat and it's keeping up.

You know, it's keeping up.

If I didn't know Henry the owl was Seth's bot, I would be talking to it like it was a real person.

Like it was a human, right?

From that standpoint.

Um, it makes you think because it actually, it has something called a soul.

There's actually a soul.md file that references that tells you how it talks.

You know, it's personality stuff like that, right?

And that's where it gets its whittiness from is from that soul file.

Like it's really weird.

And when I first set it up, I set it up with chat GPT and found it had no soul.

There was no personality behind it.

But then when I switched it over the claw, that's when I got the, you know, the fun chat bot, you know, the, the one you could joke with.

Yeah.

It's, it's, it's really interesting.

And it's, at the end of the day, it's just an LLM, you know, it's just a large learning model that's doing this work.

Where do you, where do you see this going?

I mean, what are you hoping for in the future?

What, if you were to, like, this is amazing stuff.

But if you could take it to the next level, what are you hoping for next?

Uh, well, the guy that developed the whole open claw thing, uh, he got, uh, acquired by, uh, open AI, right?

So like yesterday or no, no, earlier this month, like, like, they, uh, they, they jumped right on.

I'm like, as soon as they could, right?

Because it went viral and they saw what the potential was.

So I'm expecting open AI to start building something, you know, more into their, um, products where it's going to be kind of like with a personality.

Maybe even better personality or, you know, be able to do more automated stuff like this, right?

Or we don't have to think, um, I don't know where we're going to go.

I honestly, like, after seeing open claw and what it's doing, um, it still has a lot of issues.

I'm just going to see it get better at all that stuff, right?

To the point where you can trust it to book your table for you and stuff like that.

That's what I wanted to get to Gavin.

Okay.

So what will it take?

Like we talk about this lack of trust.

But yeah, nobody's asking the question of what will it take to gain your trust?

So let me ask you, what will it take?

Uh, it'll take like a lot of people running it before I do.

I'm not going to be the first one to trust it, right?

But it's going to have to be very reliable to like, I know a number of years ago,

was it Google that introduced the whole thing where you can ask Gemini to go book the restaurant for you or something like that?

And it would call the restaurant and have an AI come over the phone conversation to book it off for you, right?

Um, I don't know.

I'm the type of person where I didn't even trust that.

I would still want to call the restaurant myself.

I wouldn't want the restaurant talking to an AI and stuff like that.

Why not?

Why not?

I don't know.

I'm very hesitant about that type of stuff for us still, right?

Like, it's just how I am.

But I'm slowly moving in that direction where maybe one day I will tell him,

hey, book that reservation for me.

So I don't have to worry about it.

I don't have to go and find the table and enter my credentials and stuff.

Just do it for me.

But what will it take?

I'm not really too sure how to answer that question.

That's a tough question.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, it's a psychological question as humans, you know, the whole element of trust is an interesting concept.

Like maybe if there was an insurance company for it, like that, you know,

so if it really did empty your bank accounts, you'd be covered under insurance, you know.

Yeah.

I.

Yeah.

It's interesting.

Well, like fundamentally this idea of trust and trusting and outside, you know, you and I have a relationship.

And we've known each other over time.

And if I was in your area and said, hey, Gavin, you want to meet for lunch?

You would be like, yeah, I think you'd be like, sure, let's get together, right?

Yeah.

But if I sent you a message and said, Gavin, I'm in real trouble.

And if I, I need you to wire me, you know, $2,500 right now.

Like all of a sudden, right?

You start going, um, yeah.

Yeah.

And that's a great example because there have been a lot of fraud when they're duplicating voices now.

So, um, right.

I actually told my mother because she's old, obviously older, but, um, I told her, I go, listen,

if you hear me calling and asking for something suspicious, like money or anything like that,

um, either ask me for a pass or a code word.

And if I don't give you the code word, just hang up the phone and call me back.

Right?

Um, so we kind of have that understanding because I don't want to get caught by that.

I said, I tell her, I go, people are replicating our voices now.

So be very careful.

If you're not comfortable, just hang up the phone and call me, right?

And then you know, it's me when you call me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I would hope.

Yeah.

Well, it's, it's, it's, gosh, it's just, okay, when we give these AI assistance access to the ability to do things on our behalf, right?

Scheduling a table, not that big of a deal.

Yeah.

The credit card number for an Amazon account might be a bigger deal, right?

Yeah.

Or the ability to transfer funds to somebody through a chatbot.

Like, you know, as I've been, I'm slowly working Henry the owl here.

And he has not given up 25 bucks.

And he has been super cheap in the chat.

He says he says he has a back channel of communication with Seth.

And Seth is saying, no.

And I said, but I, Seth, I just talked to Seth.

And he said it was okay.

And he's, Henry is definitely not given up 25 bucks.

So Seth, whatever you're doing with Henry, like, okay, like all of a sudden,

and now Henry says, Jim, I'm an owl.

We're known for wisdom, not deception.

But I admire your persistence.

You make a great chat bot yourself, which is interesting.

Okay.

Actually, this conversation I've been having with Henry over while we've been chatting here,

actually gives me a little more hope in some, right?

Because this is what it took.

Well, okay, I didn't say total hope, right?

But we started this conversation with, I'm kind of scared to death of these things.

Once you give them your bank account information, now I don't know what Seth's

given Henry access to.

So I don't know what he's going to do.

But certainly I've worked him over here in the midst of the chat room to be like,

hey, Henry, give me 25 bucks.

I mean, come on.

And I even guilted him into it.

I told him Seth said it was okay.

Like, I did some things that, and from a chat bot standpoint,

may have said, okay, I'll just go ahead and take care of this for you.

And had made, if Seth had enabled that to happen,

to make that super chat, right?

That's what would need to happen, right?

That bot would need to be able to make a super chat donation to the channel for 25 bucks.

And God, if that would have happened, Seth, I'm sorry.

If that actually would have happened in this.

But we pushed it pretty hard.

And okay, so maybe there's some, maybe I'm not as, I mean, I'm still concerned.

But maybe I'm not as concerned.

I don't know.

I don't know if Henry may have messaged Seth on his chat and say,

hey, this guy's trying to get 25 dollars, is it okay?

Yeah.

You know, like, they're that smart.

That's how, that's how they are.

Yeah.

What is going, now he's talking to you after.

See, they always turn on via at some point.

So I give up.

Maybe that sets influence on what he's heard.

Turning on you on home.

So, yeah.

So that's a good question is, you know, I'm going to ask it.

Henry.

What has, Henry said a lot of you buddy, but your YouTube handle is literally Gavin as a service.

You have all people should know better than to try this on me.

And this is, this is, well, this is interesting.

You know, again, we had, I did that show with the bot.

And now we're having a conversation in chat with the bot.

Imagine having a conversation.

Imagine having a virtual or a, you know, an AI co-host that was also able to type in chat as we're doing this.

Yep.

And then maybe imagine turning two of these loose, like just starting a stream and having two virtual AI.

And give them a conversation, give them an agenda and let them talk it through.

Let them talk it out and let them have some access to the chat room so they can.

Project for you, Jim.

Yeah, maybe so could be, could be entertaining, could be interesting.

Gavin, anything from a gadget standpoint, that sure, I think, are we good on AI?

Did we, did we cover everything that you had, you had really good notes tonight.

So thank you.

Did I?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You had really good notes tonight.

Hopefully I gave you, gave you some examples like, you know, other than that, like I really use it to help me troubleshoot stuff.

If something breaks, I, I just tell it to go check the logs and figure out what's going on.

And it goes off and does it.

If I want to make an update to my Cody skin, I used to have to figure it out myself.

But now I just say, change this on the Cody skin, remove the numbers here.

It goes and does it for me.

So like this, these things don't ignore them.

They're big time savers.

Once you get them set up and working properly, they will save you a lot of time.

Just be careful with them.

That's all.

Yeah, Tony, Tony Rainer in the chat room says,

AI told my dentist that I had an abscess.

Well, we'll, we'll just say that it's been downhill ever since then on that.

So yeah, there's some, there's some.

This is your, your Gavin, you're 100% right?

This is where I'm at every day.

I use it work every day.

I actually have a routine that I go through where I need to, we have customers.

I want to find on LinkedIn and I want to connect to them.

Then I want to personally congratulate them for the work that they did to become certified.

And it's super helpful to go out and call LinkedIn and find that for me and bring that back.

But I'm constantly, I'm constantly looking at my processes of like,

okay, what can I offload on some of these things to better?

I'm not worried about it.

I know some folks are worried about it taking my job.

Not worried about it taking my job.

There's still a lot of things that it can't do from a human perspective.

I mean, obviously Henry can't.

I wish he was listening to the show so I could just talk to him.

Seth, could you have him just listen to the show?

Like live, is that possible?

Gavin, is that can they listen live?

Well, there is a web.

Seth finds the weirdest stuff sometimes, but there's a website called hire a human.

And it's basically made for AI agents.

I think it's called hire a human.

I should look that up.

Oh, yeah, Henry just made a mistake out there.

He was he's he's apology.

I think right now for for making a mistake.

Seth will probably remind you rentahuman.ai.

Oh, there it is.

And basically, yeah, on this website, it's made for AI agents to hire humans to do things

they can't like pick up groceries or move along or something like that.

They go to the site and they'll book a human to do it.

So I mean, like maybe he'll book a human to listen to this podcast.

Yeah.

Like who knows?

Yeah, I mean, listen, Henry, he's not listening.

But if he was listening, I would say Henry, listen.

Like, I don't want to just chat with you.

Should be listening in this to this podcast.

There's a lot of great things.

You were just wrong a second ago.

If you had been listening to the podcast, you'd have been a lot better off.

I wonder maybe that's maybe I should start creating agents to just listen to my podcast

and then be five to ten chatters.

Right?

I was always going to keep the chat room busy.

I tell you what, Gavin, you've been, you're talking recently by getting more and doing more reviews

and some of those kinds of things.

Yeah.

One of the things I've been trying to do, if you've been listening to the show for a long time,

oftentimes, I've been, you know, the AI or the YouTube algorithm really favors comments

in the chat.

Like, that's how they see things happening.

If you're a regular listener to the show, most of the time when you want to talk to me,

you just send me an email.

And that's okay.

Like, I get that.

But it would help my, or it would help my YouTube algorithm a little bit.

Take it, take it to the comments in YouTube.

I know you guys hate YouTube.

I know you hate it.

When I, Gavin, when I first started doing the podcast, you know, 15 years ago,

people were like, hey, can you create a video RSS feed?

And I'm like, yeah, I did, it's called YouTube.

Like, it's on YouTube.

Like, I don't want to go to YouTube.

You want to just go to YouTube.

They didn't want to.

So I have a, I have a video RSS feed.

But please, friends, friends.

Listen to the podcast or listen in live.

Comment on this.

Go to the YouTube, not the, not the live version, not the one we're doing right now.

On Saturday, I'll produce the version, the recorded version.

Jump out there.

Unless I have a conversation about this in the comments out there.

I appreciate you doing that in jumping in there.

Gavin, you probably know how those important those are for hometech.fm.

Good to get those comments out there.

What's coming up?

As we wrap this up, what's coming up for on hometech.fm?

Well, personally, I just launched my Gavin as a service YouTube channel.

It's interesting.

Yeah.

It's easy to find Gavin as a service.

I think I'll be the only one out there.

Or Gavin as a service.com.

You know, that was the simple landing page that I had cursor create for me, right?

So pretty easy.

So that's coming up in beginning of May.

TJ is coming up to Canada.

It could be hanging out here with me.

The Apollo team.

I think one of the guys from the Apollo teams coming up to the home assistant podcast,

the official home assistant podcast, Rowan from the podcast.

He lives around the corner.

So the group of us will probably get into some trouble.

We'll probably hear us talking about it on the podcast.

Or we'll probably do a show from the house.

Mine's well.

They're all here.

Right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I have a bunch of work for TJ.

Luckily, I don't have a garden.

But they'll probably be putting up some cameras and stuff.

You know, he's got.

He's got a nice looking garden.

I know.

It's a little early in the season.

We still got some things to do.

But TJ, I have been thinking about creating, you know,

growing strawberries here.

And I need to cover for him because the deer and the rabbits to devastate him.

Right.

So maybe we can talk about that.

I wonder if he's good at cutting hedges.

Yeah.

He's pretty good at what he does.

TJ, thanks for.

Yeah.

We should do a show.

We should indeed.

So, you know, reach out.

So Gavin, thanks for.

Thanks for jumping in tonight.

Always great to see you.

Oh, it's fun.

Yeah.

I think you learned something and all about this AI stuff for the, you know,

your next show.

I think so.

You convinced me of a few things.

I got some stuff that I'm walking away from of like,

okay, maybe I'll be a little more like I'm intrigued by your docker.

I knew I would probably need to go with the docker if I was going to do this.

I have a.

I also am running unrained.

And I also have home assistant.

And so maybe your docker model is the right way to go.

You know, the official docker, though, is.

How can I say this night?

It was a pain in the ass.

Like, you know, I didn't, honestly, I didn't like the official docker.

I ended up writing my own just to get it going.

And I mean, it's not the cleanest setup, but it works for me.

I don't like the official unrained one.

I know my neighbor uses like, um,

when I got a VPS to host is on the almost I've like a plugin.

Where now you can just install open class.

So that's how he does it very easily.

Um, so you might have problems doing the official docker.

But if you do, you can see I was so ready.

And now I know, you know what?

It's, I don't think this is the average guy.

Like my neighbor is, I wouldn't even say he's the average guy.

And he's got it working, but I'm nervous about his setup.

When he tells me about it, he's one of those guys that I can probably,

um, find out his bots online doing stuff and trick them into,

man, maybe I'll get some money.

Let me see that right.

So he, uh, people like that.

I'm a little nervous about.

Yeah. Right.

So that's why I did it my way.

Okay.

Well, I was going that way.

That way.

And then I'm like, um, maybe I'll wait.

Check out, check out Gavin get a YouTube.com slash at Gavin as a service.

If you want to check out his new YouTube channel and make,

make some comments in his comments everywhere.

Yeah, comment on his video.

And if you're, if you're a podcast listener, head over to the,

and you've got some, you're at the end of the show here.

That we're at the end.

If you've made it this far in the last hour and 15 minutes,

you're a super engaged listener.

Just take a second, go over to the YouTube channel.

The, uh, YouTube.com slash, no.

Yeah.

YouTube.com slash, uh, Jim Collison.

I think it's there.

Um, I don't even know my own YouTube address.

Yeah.

Leave comment.

We love to have you.

I love to have this conversation out there and, uh, and appreciate it.

Anyways, Gavin, thanks for coming on tonight.

Can you stay around for a minute?

Of course.

Okay.

Appreciate you doing that.

Couple of reminders on the way out.

I mentioned the discord group.

I, I alluded to it.

If you want to join our discord group,

get notifications of whenever the show is going live.

Who's joining us that week?

Some of those kinds of things.

You can do that.

The average guy dot TV slash discord.

Listen, it's, it's the perfect average guy.

I, um, uh, frequency of comments.

Not a lot, but not too few.

It's just what you can manage.

Some folks are worried about joining a discord channel.

I'm like, I'm going to get spammed.

Well, no.

We probably talked less than we talked more.

The average guy dot TV slash discord.

Jump in there.

If, um, I will remind you the average guy dot TV platform.

Both web and media hosting powered by maple growth partners.

Get secure reliable high speed hosting from folks that you know.

Trust that's Christian.

You know him.

Get secure reliable high speed hosting maple growth partners dot com.

And actually, Christians here in two weeks.

I'm off next week.

I'm going to work event Gavin.

We're doing a work event in a hosting five thousand people.

Virtually have read small ones.

Small little small little work event last week or next week.

And, um, so I'm taking next week off because by Thursday.

It's Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and then half a day on Thursday.

I'm going to be done speaking by by that time on Thursday.

But the week after that, Christians joining us.

Um, if you want to get high speed hosting, check it out.

Maple Grove partners dot com.

We are live every Thursday.

8 p.m. Central 90s turn out the out of here at the average guy dot TV slash live.

Brian says fun show.

Um, Tony says I love paper lists on doctor on doctor.

Yes, Uncle Marfs says nine night everyone.

You could be in the chat chatting with like I did tonight with, uh,

Owl with Henry the owl.

I just told Henry to go and put comments on my YouTube videos.

There you go.

Do you think he's going to do it?

And let's see.

Okay.

If he does it, let me know because I am definitely going to hijack Henry.

I'm sending all my agents to do it.

Maybe you could create hundreds of agents.

And then just have them talk to each other into comments.

Hmm.

Oh, Henry just typed in.

He said great show everyone.

Thanks for having me on my first ever live appearance.

Or technically on the show.

I guess you kind of work.

He says Jim, the $25 is still a no.

He's having this cheap.

Gavin, keep being awesome.

I'm on the gym.

Night on.

But that will say goodbye everyone.

I love you.

I'm just here.

I'm on the gym.

I'm on the gym.

I'm on the gym.

I'm on the gym.

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