A Vietnam POW Shares How to Lead With Honor | Ep. 68 | The Science of Leadership

In this profound episode of The Science of Leadership, host Tom Collins is joined by Colonel Lee Ellis (Ret. U.S. Air Force, former Vietnam POW, and author of Leading with Honor). Colonel Ellis spent five years, four months, and two weeks enduring the crucible of adversity in the Hanoi Hilton, forging indelible lessons about character, trust, and honor.

Colonel Ellis defines the honor code as telling the truth, keeping commitments, being ethical, and acting responsibly. He explains that courage is the centerpiece of honor—the willingness to suffer pain and punishment to sustain one's values.

 

The conversation dives into:

• The Temptation to Compromise: Colonel Ellis identifies the areas where leaders are most likely to fall short on honor: politics, money, and avoiding exposure of mistakes.
• The Power of Debriefing: He highlights the fighter pilot culture of intense debriefs (like those of the Thunderbirds) where leaders must "tell it like it is" and critique themselves and others to correct back quickly.
• Trust and Coherence: Tom Collins shares the science showing that honor restores coherence and builds the psychological safety essential for team performance.
• The Secure Leader: Colonel Ellis shares his model of moving from an anchor of insecurity (fear, shame, guilt) to a state of being secure through courage, commitment, and self-belief.

 

Colonel Ellis shares gripping personal accounts of torture and resilience in captivity, underscoring the lesson that while living with honor may involve suffering, it ultimately leads to healthier, more successful lives.

 

Also, I want to remind listeners about the release of my book, "The Four Stars of Leadership," a culmination of over three years of dedicated work, and I'm confident it will be an immensely interesting and helpful guide on your journey to becoming a better leader. Don't miss out on this essential resource—order your copy today at Amazon or Barnes & Nobles and share your thoughts with me!

Sharpen your leadership skills: Subscribe now on your favorite podcast app to ensure you don't miss an episode dedicated to helping you become a better leader.

To learn more about the Science of Leadership, visit https://www.fourstarleaders.com/

You can find out more about Colonel Ellis at his website, www.leadingwithhonor.com as well as find his blog at https://www.leadingwithhonor.com/blog/

References

Brown, M. E., Treviño, L. K., & Harrison, D. A. (2005). Ethical leadership: A social learning perspective for construct development and testing. Organizational Behavior and Human Decision Processes, 97(2), 117–134. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.obhdp.2005.03.002

Ellis, L. (2016). Engage with Honor: Building a Culture of Courageous Accountability. FreedomStar Media.

Ellis, L. (2012). Leading with Honor: Leadership Lessons from the Hanoi Hilton. Greenleaf Book Group.

Jin, S., Romano, A., Vignoles, V. L., Kirchner-Häusler, A., Rodríguez-Bailón, R., Cross, S. E., Yalçın, M. G., Harb, C., Husnu, S., Ishii, K., Karamaouna, P., Kafetsios, K., Kateri, E., Matamoros-Lima, J., Miniesy, R., Na, J., Pagliaro, S., Psaltis, C., Rabie, D., … Uskul, A. K. (2025). Honour, competition and cooperation across 13 societies. Nature Human Behaviour, 1–13. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41562-025-02308-0