Adam Lane Smith: Attachment Styles Are Ruining Modern Relationships | DSH #1751

Attachment theory has been around for 70, 75 years, and it was outdated, so I had to do an update on it.

And I started building not just the types, but the subtypes.

And there's a subtype that has avoidance as the main, but it has an internal core of anxious attachment.

It's from a little bit more damage, and we call it quiet disorganized.

This organized means the blend of the two, anxious and avoidance.

Quite disorganized is the one we see with a freeze response.

We've got limbic system, fight, flight, fawn, freeze, right?

And freeze response is your brain locking down, your vagus nerve tightens, your vagal doors will shut down.

Broca's area, the speed center of the brain diminishes rapidly.

It's on zero.

It mutes, you go selective mutism.

What your brain is doing is saying, I don't know how to solve this, and anything I do will make it worse.

Okay guys, we got Adam Lane Smith here, just saw an amazing interview of his on Chris Williamson,

so decided to invite him on my show, and he's done this one or two times before.

Thanks for coming on, man.

Man, Sean, thank you for having me here.

Yeah, we're going to talk dating today.

That's awesome, I love dating.

Yeah, interesting time to date right now, right?

It's a horrible time to date.

Would you consider this one of the worst times in history to date?

That's an interesting question.

I think that dating has actually been invented in the last hundred years.

I think dating is one of the most inefficient systems for finding a mate or a partner.

I think we need to do away with dating, and I think that if people are serious about finding a life partner,

we need to have the old courtship system come back, but with a smart upgrade.

Wow.

If people want to play around and have fun, they can continue doing dating,

but most women especially are looking for a husband, not a boyfriend.

Wow, that is so interesting.

I did not know the history of dating.

It's only a hundred years old, you said?

It has not been a system that we've used for all of human history known.

Wow.

Mostly what you did was get matched made through your family, through your friends.

Women especially prefer you to come in with references, and if you don't have references,

their guard is incredibly high, they feel unsafe.

The dating industry right now in the dating world is essentially sending a woman from,

let's say, 10,000 years ago, right, just after the Neolithic Revolution.

Let's say you take a woman back then, strip her family, friends, everything,

send her a loan into a forest, and say hopefully the first man you find is kind,

and not going to hurt you, and is a great husband.

Just connect to him.

Hopefully it works out.

Good luck.

Her nervous system screaming at her the entire time.

So she's terrified of that man.

She'll have a laundry list of very specific things.

She has to see up front before she'll ever trust him, right?

And no man is going to meet those lists.

So she's going to be afraid.

It's going to be an awful experience.

Guys out there, same thing.

You're wandering through the woods.

You're connecting with terrified, angry, scared, traumatized women.

They're going to just run you through the ringer.

You're going to feel alone.

A lot of guys are going to be left out in the lurch.

We're looking at massive rates of guys who can't even get a girlfriend.

Can't even have a conversation with a woman anymore.

They're checking out.

I was just going to ask you, who do you think cuts it harder?

But it sounds like you think men.

I think it's different flavors of heart.

I think our nervous systems are screaming no matter what we are.

And it's screaming in different ways.

We know that men are more lonely throughout the course of their life.

We know that men are less likely to be able to find a partner.

But we know that women report a lot higher rates of anxiety and stress.

And over thinking, we know that about one quarter of American women

is on an anti-psychic medication right now for antidepressant and anti-anxiety.

We know that our nervous systems are not doing well.

It's just pick your flavor of misery.

Are you seeing dating trends in cities compared to rural areas?

Like you're in Wisconsin.

I am.

I wish that I could say that rural areas are doing better.

I wish I could say that cities are the problem, get out of them.

But we are seeing that as people condense into cities,

you know, back in the 1920s, most Americans shifted into cities in rural areas

or smaller.

We're seeing the economic hit over the last.

Well, let's just say several decades.

We've never really recovered even from post-World War II.

Boom.

We've never really recovered properly.

Wow.

So we're seeing an economic destruction in the rural areas,

which is driving people into the cities, a lot of loss of young people

and the ones who are left don't have many options.

So I would not say that marital success is better out on the boonies, right?

Interesting.

Because I hear some people in Miami, for example,

just complaining about the dating culture out there.

Well, for sure.

Cities like New York City, LA, Miami.

These are ground zero for attachment issues not being able to connect to people.

Most of my clients come from LA, New York City, Miami.

Right?

But they're all bad.

No one anywhere is really feeling absolute success.

And there's a specific reason for that that I can get into it a little bit if you do.

Yeah, we'll dive into that.

Part of me, I'm getting married next month.

I feel so grateful.

I met my...

Wait a minute.

You're getting married next month?

Yeah, I'm eight years in.

Congratulations.

Okay.

Part of me so grateful that I just met her early and kind of before all the dating apps.

Like, they tend to just came out.

100%.

Now I feel like I got a lot of single friends that I talked to.

It is madness.

People in your age group are...

I'm a little older.

You forgive me for that.

I sound like an old man.

But people in your age group largely are becoming more and more afraid of marriage because it seems like it's outdated to them.

I was afraid.

Yeah, good.

Yeah.

You're doing good now, I hope.

I was very afraid.

I mean, yeah, eight years, what's people would say that's a long time to...

We got engaged six years in.

People would say that was a long wait.

But I was afraid.

What made you...

Let me ask this.

What was it about her that made you finally give up on that fear and push through it?

Honestly, it wasn't her, it was me.

I was so focused on work.

I wanted to build a base, a safety net first before I ever thought about having kids and settling down.

Yeah, that's smart.

I mean, it is smart.

We have to do that, especially today because we don't have a safety net.

I know you grew up in a middle-class family.

Yeah.

As much in your Reels earlier.

I have great content.

Thank you.

So many people today have so few resources.

We're seeing women really terrified, feeling like they have to go lock in first.

But they have to be the masculine provider in their own life first.

And then there's no room for a man.

What finally made you pull the trigger on marriage?

I'm always curious when young people do this because I love it.

And I love marriage.

So this is not a negative.

Yeah.

I'm happy.

We're getting deep here.

So my whole life, I grew up in a divorce household.

I was 10 years old when my parents got divorced.

Literally every day my dad was like, never get married.

He told me that.

I was a kid all the way from 10 to like 22 when we parted ways when I left the house or whatever.

But so that was just in my head, you know, because he went through two divorces.

And they were both pretty nasty.

A lot of legal fees.

So he was just sharing what he went through.

And then I internalized that.

That's all he knew.

So he's trying to help you in the only way he did, which was to traumatize you.

Right.

So that's my background.

But then growing up, I mean, moving environments and then meeting people that had really good marriages.

Seeing that, I think kind of shifted my perspective a little bit.

Okay.

Has that been more recent?

Did you pick up skills from new marriages?

Yeah.

I'm constantly asking guests for marriage advice, parenting advice.

You know what I mean?

Getting ready for that.

That's that's one thing I've come across.

I was a marriage and family therapist for many years.

I remember going through the schooling.

They said, you will be the angel of death to every marriage that comes to you.

You'll have a disastrous rate.

Everyone's getting divorced.

Don't take it personally.

Just kind of like buckle down and get through it.

That was our training as this marriage therapist.

Wow.

To take that and then go out into the field.

What I've seen is that it's usually a skill gap.

Most people don't have the skills for good relationships.

They only have skills for bad relationships.

So then when they get into a relationship, they just respond badly over and over and over.

As if they're married to a sociopath.

As if they're dating someone who is incapable of love, empathy, kindness, problem solving.

So they default to doing everything with management and managing the other person instead of working together as people.

That's what I've seen.

When we have the skills to do it, we actually get skill mastery competence and confidence.

Sounds like that's what made a big difference to you.

Yeah.

Very interesting point.

Skill gap.

I haven't heard that take.

But that makes a lot of sense.

And I needed to work on a lot of skills to get to where I'm at now.

What was the biggest skill that really pushed before you?

I mean, all of that.

Conflict resolution, I'd say.

Ooh.

What was conflict like for you before that?

I'm an avoidant.

Yeah, okay.

So like, my mom would yell and I would go to my room and lock myself.

Yeah.

That was my attachment style.

Eight years dating, building a safety net first and then getting married.

That's a very avoidant pattern right there.

Yeah, exactly.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

So that was my style.

Like, I just avoided conflict and it really hurt me in business and in dating.

In business too.

Yeah.

Especially in business.

Yeah.

Interesting.

So I would avoid conflict.

Okay.

I was going to say most avoidant guys are excellent in business, but until they hit a certain point where relationships are everything, then they start to fall apart.

Well, I'm excellent in business, but me just avoiding conflict, they would build up to the point where it'd be big problems, you know.

Okay.

Like I was scared to fire someone.

I was scared to open up.

Got it.

Yeah.

A lot of my clients that come in there are CEOs from around the world and stuff like that.

And they have the same problem.

Like, they can build when it's a solo end enterprise or solopreneurs and stuff like that.

Yeah.

They can be the CEO.

They can pull the top usually.

But when it comes to border directors, when it comes to other executives working on a team, man, they crumble.

It's so relatable.

Yeah, they don't know how to bond with the other people appropriately and solve problems.

Yeah.

Conflict.

Beautiful.

Yeah, man.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's not a trick question.

Yeah.

So instead of, I guess, I used to go literally mute, like when conflict arose.

Interesting.

Yeah.

That was just, I would shut down.

Now I'm working on it.

And I'll try to, so I'm so logical.

Mm-hmm.

So when I deal with conflict, I try to use logic to deal with it.

Sometimes my fiance doesn't like that.

You know what I mean?

I do.

Does that make sense?

It does 100%.

I'm interested in the mute thing.

Is that a freeze response?

Do you freeze?

I used to freeze.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Can I tell you something?

Yeah.

So attachment theory has been around for 70, 75 years.

And it was outdated.

So I had to do an update.

Okay.

And I started building not just the types, but the subtypes.

And there's a subtype that has avoidance as the main.

But it has an internal core of anxious attachment.

It's from a little bit more damage.

And we call it quiet disorganized.

Disorganized means the blend of the two.

Anxious and avoidance.

Disorganized is the one we see with a freeze response.

We've got limit system.

Fight.

Fight.

Phone.

Freeze.

Right.

And freeze response is your brain locking down.

Your vagus nerve tightens.

You get a vagal dorsal shut down.

And Broca's area of the speech center of the brain diminishes rapidly.

It'll be zero.

And it mutes you.

You go selective mutism.

What your brain is doing is saying, I don't know how to solve this.

And anything I do will make it worse.

Because you're remembering childhood.

Like nothing worked.

Fight didn't work.

Fight didn't work.

Fawning.

Approval seeking.

Freeze.

So at least no more damage is done.

But from the outside, you'll have a blank face.

Right.

You look like you don't care.

You look like you're detached.

People get angry at you because you appear to not care.

That's usually the biggest problem.

Yes.

Does your fiance feel like you don't care?

Yes.

But you care more than anybody, right?

I do care.

Okay.

But she wants me to show it more.

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That's going to be tough.

So your prefrontal cortex will over-develop and squash your emotional expression on purpose.

It'll mute some of your ability to feel negative feelings.

Which is in your case good because you don't want to feel the pain.

But it does mute some of your positive feelings as well, especially during stress.

This can be overcome through training and experience.

We can talk about that if you want to honor off the air.

But quiet disorganizes what it sounds like to me.

That is going to have like a blank face.

You can fix that too.

You can fix pretty much everything you want.

I'm just so relieved I can finally explain this to her because like I didn't know what was going on.

No, it's a huge thing.

It's something I've pulled out in the last year or so with me and my team.

It's massive.

It's game-changing for most people.

I'm actually quite disorganized myself.

Really?

To be honest with you.

Wow.

It's amazing throughout this podcast I've learned how much childhood trauma impacts us.

Massive.

Like it's everything, right?

I was just reading a paper.

This is a research paper this morning that just came out very fresh.

That our serotonin receptors in our brain through childhood and adolescence.

If they are not properly cultivated through high levels of cortisol and stress.

That's actually correlated with attention issues, stress management issues,

emotional regulation issues, relationship issues, anxiety depression issues.

Because we are flooded with cortisol during childhood and all that.

Our brain says I'm in a stress environment.

I'm never going to be happy.

So I don't need all this serotonin pathways.

I'm not going to build them the proper way.

I'm going to kind of build a couple, but I'll mostly focus and specialize in the stress.

Totally.

And that's what people like you and me and probably most of the people listening are dealing with right now.

That definitely happened to me.

Because I feel like school is a big stress grown-up.

School, but your family, man.

Look how fast you jump past that.

Like Dad, don't get married, don't get married.

Like divorce household, all this pain.

Look how fast you jump through that into school.

That's what most people do.

They neglect that.

You don't have to have a horrible childhood where you're suffering every single day

to have attachment issues.

Research shows that 65% of Gen Z, at least 65% of Gen Z, have attachment issues.

On the top of that, minimum 10% have personality disorders.

Potentially up to 15% or 20%, which is the most extreme version of attachment.

So we're potentially looking at 80% of Gen Z having serious attachment challenges.

Maybe 20% securely attachment.

Holy crap.

One out of five, baby.

What was your generation looking like?

The millennial generation.

We are lucky if it's 50-50.

That's optimistic, but lucky if it's 50-50.

So still pretty high.

Still pretty high.

We don't have as high of a rate of the double damage.

The disorganized style of anxious and avoidance.

That's more damage.

Gen Z has more than that.

And we don't have as high of a rate of personality disorders either.

Just because the damage hasn't been done.

Yeah.

Man, we are living in the rubble of a greater society right now.

And we don't know it.

Our systems are running.

Everything's running.

But attachment issues kick on when society has collapsed.

They are there to keep humanity alive.

Not happy, but alive.

And we're living with that.

And Gen Z is wearing those scars every single day.

And everyone just looks at you guys and says,

come on, just work harder.

What do you do?

Quit whining.

Why are you so anxious?

Come on, just get off your computer.

Go play outside.

Go touch grass.

That's what they're saying.

But no, your nervous systems are cooked right now.

Interesting.

Yeah, because the boomers are more of that style, right?

They're also tripling the divorce rates in their 70s and 80s right now

with great divorce.

They're showing everybody that marriage is worthless.

They're showing people that family will leave you.

That there's no hope, right?

They're actually continuously crushing the hopes of everyone watching them right now.

So yes, the boomers will tell you that.

At the same time, they will drive that message biochemically into your brain.

Yeah.

Yeah, the whole marriage thing is very interesting.

A lot of guys are speaking out against it these days.

I'm sure you've seen the red pill movement.

Oh, yes.

I've butted heads with many of them.

Many of them hate me.

And that's cool.

That's fine.

I think it's because I believe wholeheartedly in marriage,

but I think that we're doing marriage wrong.

I've been married about 17 years with my wife.

I've got five kids.

I've got baby number six on the way right now.

I'm happy to announce.

I haven't even announced that anywhere yet.

But marriage is truly wonderful, but only when we do it the right way.

Marriage is not meant to be an emotional experience.

It's meant to be a business experience.

Whoa.

You run a marriage like a business.

Okay.

I teach my clients.

I've developed what's called the CEO and COO model.

Chief Executive Officer, Chief Operations Officer.

Chief Executive Partnership, divided by gender roles,

but not based on value, based on specialization.

Male brains are specialized.

Female brains are specialized.

Our nervous systems are specialized.

They also integrate symbiotically.

Our nervous systems, fantastically.

So we are designed to work together as an executive partnership.

And that's what we call marriage.

It cannot be this lovey-dovey based on feelings.

Let's get married until one of us hates the other and then divorced.

But I can't do that.

Okay.

I want to dive into this more because my fiance is always talking about,

let's keep the business separate from our relationship.

It's interesting.

And you're saying, how are you going to do that?

Keep it all together.

I try.

It's really hard honestly.

Okay.

Here's a way to square that circle as they say.

Your marriage, right?

Your marriage itself should be the business.

The business should be a subset of the over larger business itself.

Your marriage is the legacy that the two of you are co-creating together as a couple.

What could you create together that you cannot create separately?

How will you be a power couple?

Is it kids?

Is it grandkids?

Great, grandkids, right?

Do you want kids?

Yeah.

How many do you want?

We want at least two kids.

At least two.

Yeah.

Let's run out of three.

I want three.

She wants two.

Build the population.

We need smart kids.

Let's do this.

If you have three kids, and they have three kids, that's nine grandkids.

Right.

And they have three kids.

That's 27 great-great-grandkids.

And they have three kids.

That's 81 great-great-grandkids.

Wow.

This is about 120 biological descendants over the next 120 years for the two of you.

That's a legacy.

Okay.

That's part of your business.

That's what you're building.

You're on this podcast.

Like, you got a lot of people listening to you.

Yeah.

But it was at tens of millions, a hundred million?

Yeah.

Two hundred million a month.

Fuse.

Of that.

That's part of your legacy too.

Changing the world.

Right.

You're going to have kids.

You're going to make the world better for them.

Your kids have to marry somebody.

They've got to be friends with somebody.

They've got to do business with somebody.

So that's your legacy.

You and her are co-creating that together.

That's the business.

Got it.

Now, this business you're running is a subsidiary of that larger legacy model.

You can keep that a little separate.

You can run that a little bit separate from the rest.

This doesn't have to just pile in.

But the business you're crafting is the legacy.

Now, of that, you're the CEO.

Of that, she's the chief operations officer.

You fulfill different roles based on your specialization.

It's not value.

It's not who's better or smarter or stronger.

It's about how you can operate together.

I know you have questions.

Ask me all of them.

No, that is a very interesting model.

I'm going to try to tell her about it later.

Good.

I've got a course that doesn't.

I'll give you a copy.

You guys can watch it together.

I love it.

I love it.

Yeah.

I was thinking more literally, I guess, with the business.

But you're saying, like, the whole marriage is just a business.

Yes.

Your children will be part of that business, right?

Yeah.

Your mission will be part of that business.

Whatever business you start, 15 businesses you start down the road, right?

Energy drinks and clothing and microphones and everything you do.

That will weave into your larger legacy.

But also your nonprofit stuff that you work.

When you're 55, when you're 60, you're at the peak of your power.

When you are opening orphanages, when you are rescuing people, when you're training people,

when you are an old gray man and people are listening to you and they have for their entire life

and generations have learned from you, that's your business.

And she's co-creating that with you.

It's not just yours.

You are building that together.

That is the business of marriage.

And that's why marriage exists.

I love it.

When you see this take on the red pill, how men gain value as they get older, right?

Like you said, our peak is 55 to 60.

Yeah.

And they also say the opposite with woman, right?

They lose value as they get older.

If you are purely looking at starting a courtship model that is based only on children

and based on physical and emotional pleasure, then yes, the red pill people are correct.

The problem with the red pill movement, people like Rollo Tomassi and things like that, the reason they don't like me,

is because I say they look at women and they say they take all the worst traits of, let's say, borderline personality disorder.

And they say every woman on the planet has borderline personality disorder.

They are sociopaths.

They are monsters.

They are evil.

And they take from you and give you nothing in return.

Now what they're disregarding is what a woman brings to the table.

Biologically and biochemically, a woman brings an immense amount of joy, pleasure, safety, medical health, all kinds of things to men.

We can go into that if you ever want to.

But women bring so much, but only in a safe, securely attached relationship.

That's only where she can bring it.

That's the key point right there.

Guys, some guys have never experienced that.

No, most men are not providing the four levels of safety to a woman.

So women are not able to reciprocate and provide the four levels of peace back to him.

The masculine must establish the safety first so that she's free to do that.

Otherwise, her nervous system will stop her from doing it.

I love that.

Yeah.

My fiance is providing me so much.

You know what I mean?

Everything you just name.

Tell me.

Safety.

She'll meet someone within two minutes and tell me if I should work with them or not.

I don't even know what to explain.

What to call that.

Intuition.

Yep.

Yeah, just someone to talk to.

So I guess like a therapist to emotional stuff.

As guys, we bottle stuff in all the time.

You know, that's how I grow up, at least.

Absolutely.

Do you have a model yet for what you need from her?

Do you even know how to tell her what you need?

Do you even know what your needs are?

Actually, as a mom.

Wow.

These are good questions.

Why do I need it?

Yeah, I just, I'm so in the moment.

Yeah.

Sometimes I never take the time to like, ask myself that.

Well, let's even dive deeper.

Quite disorganized text and style.

You are designed to not know what your needs are.

Because your brain will say I'm not able to ask other people for anything.

And so even wanting it is bad.

When you were probably one or two years old.

You asked for stuff.

Your parents put that down pretty hard and taught you never to ask again.

So now your brain won't.

So now your brain doesn't even have a concept of how could she help me?

That's going to be a big division point for you eventually.

If you guys haven't worked through it yet, she's going to be starving to know how she can help you.

What she can do for you, how to add value to.

She's probably after you all the time for it, right?

Yeah, she's always asked me what's on my mind.

Yeah, yeah.

How can I help?

What do you want?

What do you want?

Wow.

The worst thing that we men can say is, you can do nothing for me.

You are useless.

Please just sit there and look pretty.

That's the worst thing.

I say nothing all the time.

Yeah, nothing.

Even though I'm like hungry sometimes or I'm wanting something.

I'll still say I don't want anything.

Let me ask you this.

I'm going to tell you a very brief story.

I promise a brief brief.

When I first started my business years ago, I was used to working alone.

I didn't know what it was like to have an assistant.

My wife and my business partner, they made me hire an assistant.

I had that assistant sit there and do maybe two hours of work a week

and I paid her 40 hours of work.

Wow.

Right?

And I did all the work myself because I had no idea how to use an assistant.

I drove that woman nuts.

She sat there for six months waiting to get fired

because I wouldn't give her tasks to do in the whole time.

I'm thinking, oh, this is kind of cool.

I get cool to have someone to chat with once in a while.

I had no idea.

She'd asked me what to do and I would just assume I had to do everything myself.

Because how could I hand a task off to her?

It wouldn't make sense.

She wouldn't do it the way I did it.

That ended at six months when I finally said,

I guess I don't need you.

And she said, I guess you don't.

My wife was furious when I told her that I lay it.

She said, what the hell is wrong with you?

You're working 80, 90 hours a week and you're paying your assistant

and you aren't even using them.

Do you not know how?

I got another assistant.

My first task for that assistant was tell me how to use an assistant.

And I had to learn manually.

This is a skill set.

Just like I told you earlier.

A skill set to let others assist you.

But if you're not doing that, then here's what's going to happen.

As your fiance is going to sit there for the rest of her life.

Like that assistant I had at her desk, twiddling her thumbs, terrified,

waiting to get fired or divorced in this case,

waiting for you to not need her and cast her aside.

If you can allow her to be useful to you and really complete you

and be your chief operations officer, then her calm settled,

rusted self will join you in that relationship and build with you.

But until then you will drive her nuts.

Wow.

Right.

That is good to know.

What does a woman bring to the table and then you close the door in her face

and I don't bring anything.

Wow.

This is all mind blowing.

It is.

We are meant to fit together.

We are meant to fit.

Because then you see the opposite.

You see these micro managers that tell them that overwhelm people.

Yeah.

No, you're not going to.

And that's that would be treating your fiance like an assistant.

You want to treat her like a co-executive who works with you respectfully.

Correct.

An executive who works with you who has a different role than you do.

Your job as the CEO is to make decisions.

But her job is to help you inform those decisions so they're proper.

Her job is actually getting your face.

Tell you when you're off track.

Her job is to run domestic.

Her job is to run the internals.

Her job is actually to detect problems.

Have you ever noticed that women tend to notice problems and talk about them faster than men do?

Way faster.

It's baked into them.

They're supposed to do that.

Then they're supposed to bring you the problem.

Knock on your office and say, hey, fellow executive, hey CEO.

I got a problem over here in this department.

You don't know much about this because it's my department over here.

But I need some help solving this.

And you go, your job as the CEO is to say, cool, come on in.

Let's talk about it.

Tell me what's going on.

She lays out some things about what's going on.

You say, I don't know that department.

I'll be honest with you.

Give me some more information.

Help me understand.

The worst thing men do at this point is start dismissing.

No, you're wrong.

That's not a problem.

Yeah, you're stupid.

No, ask questions.

And then you say, okay, here's what I think we can do.

Here's a solution I propose.

But you know that better than I do.

That department.

Tell me if you think this solution works for us.

And her brain.

Her brain in the back.

It goes to the back to observe and back and forth across the hemisphere

to analyze.

And then she goes, well, that will work.

But it'll cause this problem.

So let's add this piece and it'll enhance this.

And actually, we'll come out way ahead.

So let's do this modified one.

You go, great.

On the CEO, I'm saying, yes, I'm putting the stamp on it.

If it goes wrong, I'm to blame for that.

I'm making the decision.

Let's read.

Let's do this.

Here's how we'll implement it.

Boom, boom, boom.

Let's talk again in a week and see how things are going.

That's how a man and woman should make decisions together.

Yeah.

And women are afraid because they get dismissed.

They get shut down.

They get shut out.

The old Greek myth of Cassandra, right?

She was blessed with absolute perfect foresight of what was going to happen

and cursed that no one would believe her.

And that's most women walking around in the world right now.

That's why they feel like they have to get their finances in order without a man.

That's why they feel like they have to be independent.

They have to work a career.

Then maybe when they're 75, they'll start having children.

Yeah.

That's women right now today.

The feminist movement, right?

The feminist movements, the opposite of the red pill.

The other side is evil.

Let's control them.

And let's all sit in our little club and feel good about ourselves.

Red pill and feminism is the same crap.

Yeah.

Do you believe in that whole feminine masculine energy conversation too?

From the East.

Yeah.

I think that there's things that are very true about it.

I do believe masculinity and femininity are real and accurate.

I believe they are built into our systems.

I believe they are built into our brains and our neurology.

We are definitely different, no matter what anyone wants to say.

We are very different creatures.

As far as energy.

I'd love to have that conversation with somebody who does believe in it.

Yeah.

I'd love to learn more.

To me it makes sense.

Like if a woman's working all day, to me, they're in their masculine energy.

This, yes.

Okay.

So the masculine energy as far as we call it on TikTok, yes.

I'm talking Taoism and stuff like that.

But yes, a woman is.

How do you want to do this?

Okay.

I'm going to do this.

I won't draw on your table.

That's perfect.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So you take notes.

I'm not freaking love it, man.

You're awesome.

All right.

Here's what we're going to do.

Here's what our hunter gatherer ancestors did.

Okay.

The men established a perimeter of safety.

That was our job.

Okay.

We build a perimeter of safety.

That's why we have a bigger upper body strength.

That's why our nervous system is built to dissociate from pain better.

Yeah.

That's why we have more vasopressin receptors in our brains to solve problems and bond through solving

instead of bonding through warmth and intimacy as much.

Okay.

The number of reasons our job is to establish safety on the perimeter.

Go out of the perimeter, gather resources and bring them back inside the perimeter.

This is our job.

Okay.

Masculinity.

Humanity as a whole.

This is the male job perimeter out in as we get older.

There's also a mentorship component component.

We'll talk about that.

But this is our job biochemically.

Okay.

Now the feminine job is everything inside of this perimeter.

When we come back in to provide warmth nurturing safety.

Now that sounds as a buzzwords, right?

What does that mean?

When the female nervous system is completely calm and safe.

When the perimeter is established around her.

A physical safety perimeter where she's physically safe.

A resource perimeter where she has all the resources she needs.

Even my clients, a lot of the women make more money than men.

That's not the issue.

If something went wrong, would he step up and get the resources for us?

Right?

Resource safety.

Emotional safety.

If I have big emotions, I take them to him.

He won't dismiss me or run away.

I don't have to walk on eggshells.

But I also have protection from his emotions.

He's disciplined.

He's managed.

He is good.

I can always predict him.

He is always safe for me.

And then bonding safety.

He is truly bonded to me.

He will not leave me as a person.

That's your wife being useful to you.

You've got to work on that.

We'll fix that.

That four levels of safety.

What happens is her nervous system calms from sympathetic,

which is what we call masculine sympathetic nervous system.

Stressed system calms down.

And she goes into her parasympathetic rest and digest mode.

This is where she has an abundance of serotonin.

Her moods enhanced.

But here's the magic.

Her oxytocin receptors spring wide open.

The oxytocin is the bonding hormone that releases when we feel safe.

And belonging and warmth and love and intimacy.

The more of oxytocin that we get, the more affection that we become.

The more compulsive we are for giving and nurturing to others.

Then they get it.

And they flow with it.

And we have high oxytocin.

Our GABA goes up.

Gamma immunoboteric acid.

Inhibitory neurotransmitter that shuts down the expression of cortisol.

Cancels out your cortisol.

Your stress diminishes.

Absolutely.

Now, as this happens, you can then take magnesium and synthesize melatonin

to sleep deeper at night.

As that happens, you generate more human growth hormone for wound healing.

We say that the feminine has a healing energy.

It literally tells us to heal.

We generate more serotonin in their presence.

Right?

The problem here is that we are not establishing safety for women.

So they have to stay in their sympathetic masculine state.

Right.

So their oxytocin receptors are shut or very, very pale and pale that closes down.

They're not generating much oxytocin.

Then they're not giving much oxytocin.

They're in a low oxytocin high sympathetic arousal state.

Stressed out all the time.

Low oxytocin, low GABA, high unregulated cortisol.

Their fertility is trashed.

They're estrogen down.

Right?

They see a 30% decrease in reproductive hormones when high stress and high trauma things are happening like that.

And we're just feeling it chronically.

30% testosterone decrease sounds pretty familiar for most people listening because we've seen that over the last 40 years.

That's correlated with high anxiety, high stress like this.

The men who are supposed to hold the perimeter go out into danger and then come back and immerse into that deep feminine energy.

If you want to call it that here in the middle, our serotonin goes up.

Our wounds heal.

We sleep deeper.

We actually extend our lifespan by about 15 years and have higher life quality for the entirety of our life.

Just being around feminine energy.

Just being around deep feminine energy.

We even see this effect if your sister is the good feminine force in your life.

You don't even have to have a wife.

If your sister is there, all of this is actually balanced out.

You need a strong feminine force.

But a woman needs a strong masculine force.

And what we've been is massively divided.

So women can't do their internal work.

And be the chief operations officer and run the internal systems and just pump full of love and intimacy.

This is why women are afraid to have children right now.

Because their nervous system is saying, I live in hell world.

And there's no one protecting me.

I can't get pregnant.

So women are putting it off and off and off and off until they can't anymore.

90% of women who end up without children.

90% wanted children.

Holy crap.

Yes.

So this is the masculine feminine dynamic right here playing out.

Men must step up and establish the perimeter, go out and require, require resources and bring them back.

And then the other levels of safety, emotional safety, most men are failing this because we're not disciplining our emotions properly.

We just shut them out.

And we're not establishing bonding safety because we don't have secure attachment.

And then you have to have a woman who receives that safety and actually accepts it instead of spitting in your face.

Right.

We're seizing control, but then she flows so much better on the inside.

All over TikTok, all of Gen Z, all of the women are saying get me out of my masculine, get me out of my masculine.

This is what we're looking for.

A masculine man who is securely attached so he can provide levels three emotional, this emotional safety and levels for bonding safety.

You can't provide those without secure attachment.

That's masculine feminine and not sure.

Thanks for sharing that.

That was beautiful.

We'll include an image of this on the video.

All right.

I wish I had drawn it better.

It's all good.

That was really insightful.

So you said men are not establishing safety for women.

And my question is you need a certain financial status to provide safety for women these days in your opinion.

No.

You could do it while you're broke.

It's not even about a number.

You can do it while you're broke, which is fascinating.

Really?

It's really having a base minimum where there's predictability.

Women can actually survive on almost anything, even in bad situations, as long as there is predictability for them.

Because if there's predictability, their nervous system regulates and they can start predicting what they have and how much allotment they have and what's going to happen next month.

If you make $50,000 one month and $10 the next month and then $50,000 the next month, your wife will not be happy.

She will freak out because there's lack of predictability.

Wow.

If you make $5,000 every single month the same amount, your wife's nervous system will be calm.

She might gently push on you a little bit and say, hey, we need a little more.

We need a little more for things.

But her nervous system would be calm and regulated.

Her estrogen will go up.

Her fertility will go up.

Her sex drive will go up.

Right?

We're finding the female sex drive is cratered right now, largely.

Unless she's in that early cycle of please don't leave me and then she's throwing it at you, right?

But this actually fixes the female nervous system and the sex drive too.

This is female viagra right here.

How fascinating.

I'm honestly shocked.

It's all there.

The research is beautiful.

That's what I like about your content.

You bring the research.

You bring the facts.

Because I was under the notion that we're in a materialistic society and woman really value money these days.

Women with personality disorders get a lot of screen time because they're willing to say,

like, come on, buddy, you got to have like eight figures and eight inches of eight feet.

Those women get a lot of attention and those women do exist.

And again, they've gone from about 10% up to 15 or 20.

And it's not that women don't care about money.

Women who have avoidant tendencies are going to care about money as a means of safety.

Right?

You talked about, I got to have a nest egg.

I'm safe at this point.

That's that thinking, right?

Right.

It's not that money doesn't matter either.

Right?

We want to be above poverty.

But above poverty is really what we're looking at.

Above poverty and stable is where most women are pretty happy.

Now, we do see that women are also happiest within about one bracket of the economic social status they grew up in.

Got it.

Right.

And even going too high actually wrecks them and destroys them.

Really?

So one bracket is usually where they're caught within one bracket is usually where they're comfortable.

But man, I came from a much lower white family than my wife did.

She actually stepped down when we first got married.

Respect.

Because I couldn't, yeah, because I couldn't provide.

Holy crap.

She was a, at the time, I was not able to do it to that extent.

And I've had to grow for help and her assistance.

But I did that because I provided that those levels of safety.

If there was a resource issue, I hauled ass and I took care of it.

Right?

And she didn't have to get up and do it.

Right?

I protected us.

And I've continued doing that.

I was emotionally safe for her.

I was bonding safe for her.

I provided safety.

Therefore, I was much more masculine than almost any of the other men around me.

That's why I have five kids and I have six on the way right now.

Well done, brother.

Well done.

I got to ask with her parents approval.

Was that a tough process because at the time you were making less than her?

No.

To be honest with you, her parents were split up.

And her dad was on is, what, his third marriage, I think.

So he was over it.

It really was one of those things.

She was like, man, like, this is not the system I want to be in.

I need a protector.

I need a man.

And you are it.

And I said, okay, here we are.

Let's strap in.

She was 19.

I was 23.

We got married.

Yeah, that's what people tell us.

We strapped in, baby.

We did it.

We're at the year 17 right now.

We're loving it.

It's an adventure every day.

I love it.

Do you have an opinion when it comes to age ranges to date to marry and all that?

Or do you kind of take a case by case?

You know, that's a great, that is a great question.

The research on this is really interesting.

So about 100 years ago, in the early 1900s, 1910s, 1920s,

the marrying age was not as bad as most people think, typically the average age.

Most people were getting married, you know, late teens early 20s sort of thing is what they were doing.

As the 1930s, 1940s, 1950s rolled on.

What we saw was a plunging in the marriage ages down into like mid teens.

Wow.

Because people were so destitute, they were getting married just to get out and find someone else who could feed them and take their other bills.

So we saw a crash in the 1950s.

1950s is nothing compared to traditionalism.

1950s is not a model.

Anyone should ever use for anything, by the way.

But it plunged, and then it went back up to late teens early 20s.

Right now, we're seeing that most couples who have success are getting married maybe in their late 20s.

And part of that's because it's taking so much longer to learn skills, so much longer to undo trauma,

so much longer to try to get financially safe in a place where we can.

We're delaying it from college, which adds another four to six years.

We're afraid to talk to each other, so we even have to overcome that barrier.

Yeah.

There's so many things adding in right now.

But we do do see that late 20s and early 30s is where most people right now are having a sweet spot.

Wow.

I don't think it's exactly an age number thing.

I think there's a lot of variables playing in there.

Worked for me and my wife because we have those variables.

Someone else, they may get, they may wait till they're 40 or 50.

And it won't matter because they haven't built the skills.

It really is a skills thing.

It's a skill issue.

So it's all about getting, getting skills first.

Yeah, get good first.

Get good first.

And can you get good being single?

You can.

But remember that we get wounded in childhood in relationships.

So you don't just go into a cave and fix yourself and then come out and you're good.

Right.

We have to get bonded in relationships.

But the magic of that is we can get bonded in human relationships everywhere.

So where you get better at business, you can get better at home if you generalize the skills at home.

A lot of my clients, they come in there, they're older businessmen in their 50s and 60s and stuff.

They've have incredible skills that they've wired in for, for CEO work at the office.

Yep.

But they come home, they fumble every day at home.

Their wife can't stand them.

Their kids can't stand because he doesn't know what to say.

Right.

All we have to do is generalize, hey, you know how you talk to your COO at work?

Yeah.

If you talked to your COO at work, how you talked to your wife, what would they do?

They would quit.

Yes.

What if you talked to your wife the way you talked to your COO?

And then like this light bulb goes on, they go, oh, wow.

I can do that.

And I say, well, you have to do that.

Oh, okay.

And then they take those skills and they apply it to that relationship, instant turnaround.

Like a couple of weeks and you see their marriage satisfaction go from three out of ten to six out of ten.

And six out of ten is actually sweet spot.

You don't want above like seven or eight, by the way, for your nervous system.

That's a whole other conversation.

It is a fascinating topic.

Some guys are such good CEOs in good business.

Yeah.

And then their marriage is, is opposite.

They don't let that woman step in and be a COO.

Her job is to sit there and look pretty so that he provides for her.

She's almost like a vending machine for children.

And then she just sits there so that he can look at her in the corner while she's on the shelf.

That's almost the role that he has with her.

Yeah.

And that's why it's failing.

And for me, like I'll be honest, I actually do judge people based off their relationships.

You should.

Yeah.

I know that's a hot take, but it matters a lot to me.

Yeah, not are they a good or bad person.

You don't mean that, but I mean, maybe do.

But when I judge people like that, I mean, like, is this someone I should be around?

Is this someone I can trust?

You look at their quality of their relationships.

How are they with people?

Women do the same thing with men, by the way.

All these guys who are out there dating, who have no friends, no family, no one to talk to.

You live alone in an apartment with a lawn chair, a TV, and an Xbox.

And then you try to go find a girlfriend.

No, she's not going to connect with you because you're proven you're incapable of human bonding.

Yeah.

The better friendships and better relationships you have, the more references you have,

the more you're a walking billboard for I'm ready for marriage.

Absolutely.

Have you seen the stats on Virgin rates?

Oh, it's, yeah, it's incredible.

Oh, my God.

I know, I know.

I can't believe it.

No, I know.

Japan is brutal.

Japan is brutal.

There's have skyrocketed through the roof.

South Korea is leading the way.

Anime, right?

It's got to be anime.

It's a complete reduction of human bonding in any way, shape, or form, and totally withdrawing.

Are you familiar with the mouse utopia experience of John C. How come?

I don't think so.

Oh, you just got to blow your mind.

So John C. Calhoun built mouse utopia experiments.

So Unifers 25 was a box where he took mice.

He removed every stressor they could ever experience.

He gave them food, health, safety, everything that you could possibly imagine, the perfect experience.

And what happened was they started breeding and reproducing and then dumping the babies in the corner and didn't care they'd abandoned them.

Whoa.

The mothers just wanted to go have more sex.

It became a hedonistic, selfish, focused society.

Now what was even weirder was he developed inside of that a culture of what's called the beautiful ones who simply groomed themselves and got approval from the other mice who just wanted to be around them because they were so beautiful.

Hello Instagram, right?

And then what was even weirder was a few maybe 5%, 10% became outcasts who couldn't fit into this weird hedonistic subculture.

They were pushed to the outskirts until they would freak out from stress and go on killing sprees and kill as many other mice as they could until the other mice would put them down.

Wow.

Yes. So it was a hedonistic completely destroyed culture inside universe 25, which looks an awful lot like our culture.

Sounds familiar, right?

Sounds all very familiar.

What we need to do is not bring back more pain because we have enough pain.

Our nervous systems are in too much screaming pain.

Our lives are very convenient.

Yes, that's the universe 25 pieces, the convenience of our lives.

But the pain is there.

Men say women don't need us anymore.

I think women maybe don't need you for some aspects.

But women cannot provide the four levels of safety, especially emotional safety and bonding safety.

They can't provide that for themselves.

And having to provide physical safety and resource safety is massive stress for them.

Women don't want to be men, right?

We tried that experiment.

We tried.

I grew up in California in the public sport system.

Oh, God.

My female school teachers would tell us that we were not as good as the girls.

They would tell us that boys are stupider.

They would tell us that boys are worse.

They would tell us that girls are better, smarter, and they're going to be the leaders of the future.

And men may as well not be here, right?

We got that messaging.

We got that messaging across everything.

We still get that messaging today.

I think of Kathleen Kennedy when she bought when they Disney bought Star Wars.

And they put her in charge.

And it became about men are stupid and worthless.

Your time is over.

Now it's our turn, right?

Right.

We're still doing that today.

But all those young women who bought into that, in my generation, bought into feminism and all that stuff.

Third wave feminism, fourth wave feminism, all that crap.

They are now deeply miserable and unhappy.

And they hate their lives by and large.

Now you look at the younger generation, you look at Gen Z women.

They're sick of it.

And they're saying, no, no, no, no.

I don't want to do this.

I'm out.

I'm out.

I tapped out.

I'm not here to be a man.

I'm not here to do this.

Find me a good man that is worthy of my trust.

Somewhere.

And then I'll trust him.

The problem is that they don't know how to find those men.

They don't know where they are.

There's a lot, not very many men stepping forward, passing the test of manhood anymore.

They also don't know how to trust those men because their nervous systems are freaked out and traumatized too.

And then she doesn't know what to provide in return.

All she knows is sex.

Yeah.

And that's just one part of a relationship.

That's not everything.

That is the culmination at the end of the relationship bonding process.

That is not the beginning.

Right.

You don't do that at the beginning.

You do that at the end after you have bonded.

100%.

But these days people put it first.

They do it at the beginning.

You don't even have names yet.

I'm going to do it.

Right?

Like, hey, we're in a dark alley somewhere.

Oh, by the way, I'm Steve.

Like, that's what's going on right now.

Yeah, the hook up culture.

That's what we have trained young women is expected from them.

So now those young women, let's go back to the woman.

10,000 years ago wandering in a dark forest.

Yeah.

All she has is sex.

So she steps out.

She sees a guy step out from behind the tree.

She's like, okay, here we go again.

She pulls up her skirt.

She's like, okay, here I am.

Please don't hurt me.

And that's the process.

That's what women are doing in the dating world right now.

You know, 98% of women report that they would prefer to only have bonded committed loving sex.

But a lot of them are doing casual sex just because they feel like they have to.

Wow.

98%.

98%.

Massively.

And it's not even close.

Massively prefer sex inside committed loving bonded relationships.

Wow.

2% said, yeah, I prefer casual sex.

That is actually mind blowing to me.

I would have assumed it was the opposite.

No.

Women are not really built for that.

If they are severely damaged through childhood sexual abuse, right?

They may have a different take on it.

Yeah.

Because they think that it's expected of them.

And they don't understand what the role of sex is or bonding.

And they usually have massively extensive attachment issues.

So it's very difficult for them to separate sex from any kind of relationship.

Because it spills over and everything else.

Right.

Because it did when they were a kid.

The lines are too blurred for them.

But that's not a stab at victims, by the way, at all.

I work with a lot of victims of that deep respect.

But we have to understand the role of actual sex.

And we have to understand the female sex drive and how it's built.

It is built for smart, smart women.

Would you say the sex drugs are different?

Because you hear the argument that men view sex physically, right?

Men will view sex physically if they are more detached, especially.

Men are more visually stimulated and physically stimulated.

We have, if you want to talk about it this way, our ovulation cycle,

it is for us is roughly every 72 hours.

You're testosterone spikes, you have a sex craze that comes on

and you have a generic sexual arousal.

I am aroused.

What will I do with this?

That's roughly every 72 hours for us.

For women, it's every 28 to 30 days when they go into their ovulation phase, right?

I think we're glad we're not like a deer or something where it's three days out of the year.

Be grateful.

But once a month, women have that same process.

And it actually changes their desire for the man that they're with.

Interesting process.

But the female sex drive is not only in heat during that period.

The female sex drive is designed especially for deep warmth and intimacy

when her oxytocin levels are high.

She gets drunk on oxytocin and desires you.

It's not, I'm aroused.

Let's do it.

It's, wow, you are really ringing my bells right now.

Let's go find some steady furniture to lean against.

That's the female sex drive when you get her deeply into her feminine.

However, in the first year, and especially if she's insecurely attached,

her system says, this is all I have to attract him.

I need to keep him around for a period of time.

So I will amp up my sex drive artificially to try to keep him going.

It's not a conscious thing.

It's a physical thing.

This is the, please don't leave me performative sex at the beginning of the relationship.

How much of a traction do you think is conscious for subconscious?

Because they're doing these studies now on pheromones and how they, have you seen these?

Oh, yeah, these are fascinating.

Interesting, right?

Phheromones are very real.

They just, they just plain are.

So anyone who says they're not is fooling themselves.

Attraction is deeply unconscious.

But we can make it conscious.

We can learn from it.

We can understand what we're doing and why.

And we can actually shape and reshape our attraction.

Most of the clients that come into me, they are attracted to the wrong partners.

Right.

They're attracted to people who are avoidant.

She's anxiously attached.

She feels like she's worthless.

She finds a man who treats her like she's worthless and then sets out on a life journey

to prove him wrong and make him turn it around.

And she will spend the next 40 years miserable, hoping that he will eventually say,

yes, okay, you're worth it.

Because she's got to prove dad wrong through this guy.

That's a big part of the process.

But you can turn that.

You can shift that.

First, you have to be understanding why you're attracted to the people you are

and what it is that's doing it.

Yeah.

I've heard that you are attracted like men are attracted to their mothers

and women are attracted to their fathers.

A little bit.

The way that we learned to interact with our mother.

The way we learned to interact with our father, right?

The way that you learn to interact with your mother

is probably the way you learn to interact with your fiancee.

That's how you interact with women.

If you got along by pleasing your mother,

you will try to please your fiancee.

If you got along by distancing yourself and managing your mother kind of thing,

you will distance yourself and manage your fiancee.

That's more what we tend to see.

So if your dad, as a woman, had no desire to be around you,

you will assume most men have no desire to be around you.

So you have to invent a reason,

sex, nudity, to try to get his attention

and then hopefully over time do enough for him

that he agrees to hire you full time and keep you on.

So there is some truth to the daddy issues and the mommy issues?

It's tremendous truth to it.

It's just, we need a larger picture of it.

Right.

Yeah.

Some people will just label it and blanket statement, right?

Yeah.

Right.

And then we look down on those people.

Oh, she's got daddy issues.

She's pathetic.

She's got mommy issues.

Let's just throw them over there in the corner.

Who cares?

He's worthless, right?

We call them all kinds of names.

We mistreat men and women who have attachment issues.

And we look down on them.

We have a lot of contempt for them.

And we shouldn't because number one,

it's like 80% of Gen Z right now, 65 at least.

And number two, these are people who are suffering.

Right.

Right.

It's you.

It's me.

This is us.

It could have been us.

Let's work together to fix it.

Because that's the magic.

We can fix this.

Yeah.

This is fixable.

All of this.

You think so?

Even with the divorce rate at 56%.

Yes.

I have zero doubt that this is fixable.

Wow.

I know.

I'm on a quest right now.

My mission, the reason I'm doing this,

is one billion people changed from insecure to secure.

You think you could do that?

I know I will.

Wow.

But not alone.

I'm going to do it with my team.

I'm going to do it with people like you having this conversation.

People listening.

They're involved.

My wife, my kids.

Everybody around me is involved in this mission.

Because that's the magic of it.

That's the business that my wife and I are building.

I love that mission.

Well, I'll take the test.

I'll probably pop up insecure at the moment.

But I'll retake it in a year from now.

And hopefully I'm secure.

Hey, I'll be there.

I'll be there with you, my friend.

I want you to get your marriage beautiful.

Because I want you to have 10 fat happy babies.

I want them to have 10 fat happy babies.

I want your legacy huge, bigger than you can imagine.

But I want your wife to feel calm and regulated in your presence.

So she knows what you need from her.

So her nervous system calms down.

Because that can build her an incredible life of experience.

I'd love that for her.

Like you said earlier, really resonated.

Because some months I'll make a loss.

Some months, I'll lose money.

And it's just like for her, I didn't even think about how that impacts her.

You know.

You need to make sure that she has an amount that's set.

If that means you put aside a safety amount for her, a nest egg.

Right.

Actually, what's funny?

Men used to do this.

This is the process of buying jewelry for women.

Yeah.

Every anniversary, you buy her wearable money and give her money that she can wear.

And for the rest of her life, she has money that you have given her.

Wow.

Men today don't have to buy her money.

You can put aside money into a savings account for her.

Where she has a guaranteed retirement account.

If you die early, you divorce her, you do anything.

You can build this in as a prenup.

I think prenups are mandatory today, but not to take money away from women or men.

It's to protect both sides.

What will we be doing?

How will we handle money?

How will we build safety for you as a woman?

How will we build safety for me as a man?

I think that's mandatory.

Interesting.

We need to give women safety and nest eggs.

That's our job.

So as you're climbing the money mountain, my friend, make sure that she has an account.

You can both have access to it, but make sure there's an account.

A deep savings account where you lock in a set amount of money for her every year.

And she can watch that grow because that's her safety.

Then your income can fluctuate every month who cares.

I love that.

She's always got this nest egg that's always there.

She never has to be afraid again.

I will definitely do that.

We were planning on doing a...

What do you think of joint bank accounts?

You fan of that?

I think that they are usually mandatory.

Really?

There's times where maybe you don't bother putting her on some,

but I think that they're actually important.

Okay.

Maybe your business accounts.

You don't put her on if she's not involved in the business side kind of thing.

But I think that it's good for her to have an understanding of everything as it goes.

Now, only if that woman is worthy of trust.

That's the other side of it too.

Only if she's worthy of trust.

And I think that's one other reason pre-nubs are important is because she needs to know what she's signing on for,

but a man needs to know too.

Both sides need that financial peace of mind.

I don't think that we can go forward without pre-nubs.

I'm sure a lot of the clients you're dealing with have nasty divorce stories.

They do.

A lot of them try to rush in and do a post-nup during the divorce, which is brutal.

A lot of the guys do that because they freak out and they're terrified.

I think the worst thing that we can do is tell women that pre-nubs are bad.

I think pre-nubs protect women.

And it needs to be in there of what will happen to you and how will you be safe.

Not you get nothing.

I get everything.

Ha, ha, you're an idiot.

It's how will you guarantee her safety so that she doesn't have to be afraid.

But what's fascinating, and here's what's great.

70% of divorces are initiated by women, but a lot of those don't go to completion.

Once you begin the process,

people see how awful it is, and then they start having conversation.

Once someone pulls the trigger and says, OK, I'm thinking about divorce.

This is too much for me.

Now that begins a conversation.

Now it can begin negotiation, not always.

Not always.

I have a lot of clients where the wife has been emotionally divorced for five years from her husband,

and then she follows kind of thing.

But, you know, we need to see what's going to happen.

We don't need to be divorced like, oh, it's going to be this great magical experience.

The woman will get the house and all the kids and all the money.

She needs to know the dark reality of what's going to happen.

Spell it out on paper before you sign the business.

What do you think of business contracts that don't include a termination section?

That's silly, right?

Right.

What do you think of business contracts that don't explain how you're going to divide assets right now while you're calm

so that when you're angry, you don't have to worry about it.

It's necessary.

It's mandatory.

A lawyer would scream at you for not including that.

That has to be a prenup.

But, you know, it doesn't have to be in the prenup.

Or, you know, what doesn't have to stop?

It's just the prenup.

It's not just how we're going to end.

A prenup is not how we're going to end our relationship.

A prenup is how will we build a business together?

And one part of it is how would we end it?

But how will we do it?

Every month, we will set aside, you know, every every year,

we will set aside 5% of our total income into a joint savings account.

If the marriage ends, the wife claims that entire amount.

Cool.

There we go.

There's some safety, right?

If something happens to her, she gets 5% of yearly income, year after year after year.

Well, she could probably hold on for another 3 years.

And you know what could happen?

You guys can do couples therapy during that time.

We're couples coaching.

Couples coaching is often more effective than couples therapy.

I found for the research.

Couples coaching.

Couples coaching is actually more effective.

Usually couples therapy quite often and actually makes things worse.

Whoa.

Thanks for that.

Yes, I say that as a former marriage and family therapist myself.

I split from that industry because I saw a lot of those stats.

And I wanted to do coaching instead, which is highly more effective for most people.

Coaching is very, very distinct, right?

Let's solve the problem.

Right.

Let's rehash the problem and take the woman's side and beat up on the man.

Most women don't even like the experience of couples therapy because it's just beating up on the man endlessly and ruining the marriage in front of you.

Wow.

So, yeah, couples therapy is not usually the approach we want it to be.

But with that in mind, let's...

I'll pause there.

No, thanks for all of that.

I'm really...

I'm doing therapy right now and I was considering couples therapy, so thanks for that heads up.

I would...

Yes.

I would sit down with her.

I mean, does she know that you think you have couples therapy?

I've mentioned...

Well, the therapist wanted to bring her in for some sessions, so...

I thought you're okay.

Yeah.

That can be helpful just to get her perspective, but don't...

I wouldn't turn it into couples therapy.

Yeah.

It'll be really weird for her to step in because you've already got the other thing.

But if you guys want to do skill training together, that would be a beautiful idea.

Most people go to couples therapy proactively for skill training and what they get is a lot of guilt,

a lot of rehashing of problems, a lot of anger.

The woman articulates better than the man does, so then the therapist just takes her side.

And then the woman gets upset that the relationship's getting worse, and then you go couples therapy shop to another couples therapist.

Yeah, never ends.

I usually have couples come in who have seen four or five couples therapist by the time they get to me.

And they say, Adam, we've wasted years.

We are miserable.

They made it worse.

Please don't do this to us.

And I say, cool, let's get you turned around.

Usually with about six sessions, I can turn couples around from edge of divorce to happy, having sex, fulfilled, wonderful, no more fights.

Six sessions.

Six sessions.

So six hours.

Six sessions split up over about every two weeks.

That's impressive.

It's a good thing.

I love it.

Well done.

Are you seeing a lot of infidelity, a lot of sexless marriages?

Oh my gosh, both.

Oh my word, both.

If I told you some of the affairs that I've worked on, the paint would peel off the walls just from it.

But yeah, a lot of a lot of couples were even the man doesn't want to have sex and the wife is chasing him begging him for it.

Wow.

Marriages where the wife hasn't had sex with the man in a year or more.

I had one couple where they had said had sex once a year for ten years, the last ten years.

And I asked him why.

And he looked at her and she said, well, he doesn't ask me for us.

That's why.

Wow.

That was why.

That was a big piece of why.

Like he wouldn't pursue.

He was passive aggressive about it.

He was just sad.

He assumed the worst.

She had some medical issues going on and they got out of the habit of it.

And they never really talked about it.

They couldn't have the confrontation about it.

They couldn't cooperate.

They couldn't build the stuff together.

They couldn't do it.

So they just didn't for ten years.

Jeez.

They came into me.

Sex three times a week.

Two months.

That's awesome.

Two months it took them to get to sex three times a week.

And she was loving it.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

For infidelity specifically.

Is there a coming back to that in your opinion?

Couples can come back from an infidelity, usually.

To do that, the person who committed the infidelity needs to have an almost

almost religious style conversion.

Not to an actual religion mind you, but the way they live their life.

The way that they follow their ethics or don't.

The way that they live with external accountability and visibility.

They need to have a full conversion of their life into an almost new person.

And be living so distinctly that their partner can look at them and say,

I don't have to trust that you're different because you are different with every human around you.

You're different.

You have such accountability.

You have such desire for openness and intimacy and trust.

You share details.

You share everything with me.

And I can finally let go and trust you.

And then your brain does something magical.

It's called differentiation.

It draws a line between who you were and the new person.

It says these are different people.

Let's not worry about old things because that was someone else.

Wow.

And then the partner can truly let go.

It's a whole process.

That one.

That takes me about eight sessions with most of my clients.

That's still fast in my opinion.

Eat sessions.

Differentiation.

Wow.

The more I know.

Yeah.

You've changed a lot of my opinions today.

I will admit.

I was scared to ask for the prenup.

Why?

There's a lot of shame.

Well, I guess just the way media portrays it, right?

Okay.

How would you, if you were going to pretend I'm with her,

we're going to have a prenup conversation.

What's your opening sentence for a prenup?

Babe, I'd love to get a prenup.

I think it would protect both of us.

Babe, I'd love to get a prenup.

There's the problem.

There's the problem.

Not a good opening.

No, no, no, no.

Are you cool if I teach you?

Yeah.

Okay.

I was asked before I do.

There's something called front loading context.

Okay.

If I was going to talk to my wife and say,

and we were going to get married,

here's how I would do it.

Sweetheart, I'm really serious about us

and the marriage that we're going to be building.

I want to make sure we do it right.

And I want to do it in a way that protects both of us

in a smart way.

Okay.

Now, I want to have a conversation with you

about something that I believe is good for us.

This is not me demanding that we do this.

But I think it's a good move and I want to get your take on it

and I want to move forward as a couple.

Okay.

Here's what we're going to do.

I would love to discuss this thing called a prenup.

Now, you might have heard about it before.

Maybe that's stressing you out already.

I want to tell you that I have a different view on it

than everybody else does.

And I think it's going to be good for you.

This is not me trying to sell it to you.

Let's talk about why it's good for both of us.

Cards on the table and see what we can do here.

And then at the end of this, let's both feel safe.

It's all said.

Wow.

Front loading with context.

The outcome.

You tell them the outcome you're trying to reach.

You tell them that this is not the end of a relationship.

It's to do better.

You tell them you're not making a decision at them.

You tell them that's going to be a conversation.

You tell them, hey, it's a little stressful.

It's a prenup.

I know it's weird.

You own that.

And then you move forward and say, let's do this together.

It might still be stressful.

It's still going to be a conflict.

But conflict is just a series of questions.

Do we want different things?

And if so, do we have to fight about it?

Or can we work together?

If you can answer those as yes, you go into cooperation mode.

That's what secure attachment is.

It just moves automatically from conflict into cooperation.

If you don't have secure attachment, your brain will say,

we can't do those things.

And no one will ever work with me.

So I have to make things work.

So your brain will either fight and attack.

Some people get really aggressive and open mood and posturing and angry.

Some people fall and say, OK, I will only get 30%.

Please don't hurt me.

Immediately as soon as the conversation starts,

some people run away and say, I can't have this conversation.

Some people try to sneak and manipulate people do different things.

That's leading into what we call confrontation.

You conflict to confrontation.

No.

Conflict to cooperation.

So invite her into cooperation.

Be the CEO.

That's you as the CEO going to your executive partner and saying,

hey, look, chief operations, hey, we're going to have to put a contract in place.

It's going to be great for both of us.

Here's why this is what we're going to do.

And then tell me your thoughts, right?

I'm not throwing the contract on the table.

Let's talk about this and build this contract together.

And then here's when she says, well, how does it protect me?

Well, you have guaranteed safety, guaranteed financial safety, babe.

I want it in there that you will have guaranteed financial safety

so that if anything bad ever happens, you don't have to fight for a cent.

You have everything.

I want us to have a rolling savings account that every year I deposit money into

so that you always have a nest egg that you can always rely on.

And if you choose to share that with me, cool.

But if not, if we ever split, that's your cash in hand, right?

If we have kids, I want us to build in a custody agreement right now

that we will take care of each other because we love each other.

We'll do 50-50.

I want that so we don't fight about that.

I also want in there that maybe if you're taking care of the kids,

I add extra financial incentive to your thing, right?

A lot of celebrities do this.

I want to beef that up and I want to reward you for your diligence

because I'm going to be making the money, but you're helping me achieve that.

I can't hit those highs without you.

So I want a contract that shows your value on paper and makes you safe.

And at the same time, if anything bad ever happens,

I don't want to have to fight with you when we're mad at each other.

I want us to have a good contract and a good piece of mine so we always know.

And then I want us to look at that contract and look at how serious the consequences would be to both of us

and never go down that road of separation ever.

I want us to use that as incentive to stick together.

And then, one last piece.

I want part of our prenup, even a non-binding legal side.

I want part of our prenup to be a contract about how we will conduct ourselves as a couple,

how we will work as a team, what we're building.

This is probably not a legal side that a lawyer is drafting.

This is you guys doing it on your own, but that's an additional aspect.

This is the marriage contract.

What's fascinating in ancient Jewish culture, actually, this is really cool,

is they would build a marriage contract and then they would frame it and color it and go and set it in the bedroom of the couple.

Beautiful.

Displayed of this is our contract and how we will live inside our marriage.

That's something that couples can be doing.

I highly recommend doing this.

Much better spoken than me.

Well, I've had a lot more time to get there.

Well done.

Yes, sometimes I'm very blunt and people take that personally, if that makes sense.

You probably are blunt because you're not adding context.

If you're blunt with no context, their brain fills context.

And if you have 65% insecure rate, their context will be negative.

So then they'll say, why is he saying this to me like this?

Why is he hurting me like this?

Why is he scaring me?

Oh, because he doesn't care about me.

Then they get angry.

That's what they're doing.

Yeah.

More context, my friend.

Yeah.

So more context helps.

That's good to know.

Your brain stops you from adding context because when you were a kid, if you added context,

you'd get criticized on hurt because of the context.

So you learn to cut out context and minimize it so people couldn't use it against you.

Wow.

So now you don't do it and now people get mad at you.

Yeah, I was a very shy kid growing up.

Scared to speak out.

There's reasons for that.

You weren't born that way.

You're not born shy.

You think we're all born like a clean slate?

Man, I got five kids.

You were born with a personality, but then your experiences shaped the best or worst version

of that personality, the trauma and pain and experiences that you have, shape you and teach

you what's allowed and what's not allowed.

What's safe and not safe.

You learned that shyness kept you safe.

I love that.

Yeah, that's well spoken.

I'm very fascinated how twins end up different people.

Yep, they do.

It's all environment, right?

It's we are again, man, we're born.

My oldest son came out like a hot and ready and yelling and he was sucking both thumbs

and bossed people around like moment one.

And my second, my first daughter, she came out so peaceful and gentle and sweet.

And she still is.

You know, if she's got her mischievous days, she is.

But their personalities are formed in many ways.

But man, the version of that personality that you get is then shaped.

We hammer it.

We shape it.

We cut pieces off.

We burn pieces out.

We add pieces for safety.

We give them that.

And that's our job as parents is to give them the best version of what they were born with.

I love it.

Well, congrats on number six on the way I'm a man.

I appreciate that.

That's way above average.

I'd imagine these days.

It's a little above.

But what I tell people who don't have kids is, hey, for every kid you don't have, I'm going

to have six.

I love it.

Where can people learn from you and get coach and all that math?

Well, thank you.

This is my website.

AdamLaneSmith.com.

We have coaching on there for people who want an accelerated program of skill training.

We have self-paced courses on there.

I have group coaching.

I do a lot of skill training every week to my group.

I have a retreat that I run.

I have everything on my website.

People who don't do websites.

That's cool.

Instagram is great.

I'm an attachment Adam.

I'm on TikTok.

Attachment bro.

I'm on YouTube.

I have over a hundred YouTube videos longs and shorts.

I have a lot of material to learn from right now.

I get those skills going.

Check them out, guys.

Thanks for your time.

Thank you.

I hope you guys are enjoying the show.

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Thank you.

I hope you guys are enjoying the show.

Please don't forget to like and subscribe.

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