After Wemby, Spurs destroy the Heat, where does Miami go?

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And now, today's episode.

Uh oh.

Yeah.

It's mercy.

Knees about mercy again.

Heat nation.

Heat nation.

Heat nation.

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Heat nation.

Heat nation.

Heat nation.

Heat nation.

Heat nation.

Heat nation.

Heat nation.

Heat nation.

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Heat nation.

Welcome to Five on the Floor, a daily insider show on the Miami Heat and the NBA, featuring

Ethan Skolnick, Greg Sylvanter, Alex Toledo, Brady Hawk, and others from the Five Reasons

Sports Network.

Also, make sure to subscribe to Off the Floor for the most heat anywhere.

All right.

Welcome back to Five on the floor.

Here's today's floor plan.

I'm Ethan Skolnick and fall me.

Ethan J Skolnick and at Five Reasons Sports.

I got Alex Toledo.

I can fall in the tropical blanket.

We apologize for no podcast after the game.

Greg does have a day job and night jobs sometimes.

And so he couldn't host and then, uh, Alex and myself and Brady waited like 40 minutes

for Wembee, which was worth it.

It's a great interview.

He really is.

Um, face the league and television answers your question.

We're talking about that yesterday isn't afraid to say stuff like just to clear outright

the defense and matter for MVP.

Alex has a story about that on our heat on SI sites since it came after the he came.

So Wembee after destroying, uh, Miami on the court along with his teammates, uh, then,

put on a clinic and the presser.

But by the time it was over with, we were like, okay, we're not putting off this.

So we were coming back to you a few hours later with some time to process and this is

really where I'm at with it.

And I, I understand Alex again, right now the heat or ninth going into tonight, um,

they're just ahead of Charlotte.

I don't know that they're going to stay there.

I don't really have a lot of confidence.

They're going to jump any of the teams in front of them except the magic just sort of like

stapled to them the whole year.

It doesn't matter how many times the magic beat the heat.

They're still tied with them that constant like they went on a winning streak.

Now they're going on a losing streak like they're like twins.

It's crazy, uh, except again when they're on the court against each other, but I don't

have any confidence in Miami moving up at this point.

We knew this was going to be a difficult stretch.

They've bombed during this stretch.

They've looked overmatched by the majority of these teams for the majority of the game.

They look worse always when they have a full complement of players, which is not a good

sign and should tell the frontoff is something because this idea, well, when we just get healthy,

when they just get healthy, they're always worse.

That's, that's been the case here now for a couple years.

I don't know why that what it is.

Alex, I don't know if it's slow like it's, it's, it's easier with him with a simplified

roster.

Players know their roles, but it's not good.

Anyway, I'll go to you on this question here.

They beat OKC earlier this year.

They beaten Detroit, they beaten the Knicks, they've beaten some good teams.

So we kind of got the idea, OK, they can compete with those teams.

I don't think it has currently constituted now at this stage of the season, even while

healthier, they can beat any of those teams.

Am I wrong?

Um, I think I disagree with you a little bit because they're not playing as well as they

were, you know, like when they beat those teams, there's no doubt about it, right?

But this team, it's kind of what they're capable of.

Like we know that for a game, they can have a game where they beat some good teams.

But the overall sample, like the overarching sample is going to tell you that they can't

rely on that.

Like it's not a team that you can rely on to beat good teams consistently, you know?

Like they, they can beat bad teams, they can beat middleing teams.

The good teams give them a lot of trouble.

And I think you're seeing it here in the stretch of games are like, you got, you guys

did a whole podcast about it because we knew this is going to be a really tough stretch

for them.

It's been very tough.

And that's not as a way to excuse what's going on.

I think that's explaining what's going on is that they're just not one of those teams.

Like they, they, I think you might have expected them to get one or two of these like earlier

in the season, based on the way they're playing to get none of them to lose in the fashion

that you have in some of these games.

Like I just think it's, it's very disheartening.

And honestly, it's like the, you know, um, the identity stuff is not there either during

this stretch.

Like you, you, you know what this team is supposed to be good at what they're supposed

to hold their hats on and they're not doing those things.

Like ever since the, the Hornets lost, they, they've been in the bottom five in defensive

rating.

They've been in the bottom, uh, 10 and rebound percentage like these things that had been

holding them up throughout the season, the possession battle stuff, the defense stuff.

You know, like they're, what you don't have to worry about with them ever is being like

a high turn over team.

The heat don't really do that.

Like they, they've got that part covered.

But, you know, like if they're not defending, if they're not, um, rebounding at a, at

a high enough level to go along with strong defense, they cannot compete with good teams.

Like they, they legit just cannot afford to not do that stuff.

They had that stuff has to be the basis of their game or else everything else falls apart.

Right.

And I already felt that way already.

So like I understand that the bias there, but it's, it's hard to not feel like that, that

confirmation bias when it's like, okay, well, yeah, I'm not surprised that when their

defense falls apart, when they're not consistently defending teams, they can't keep up.

Their offense just isn't like that.

It's, it's really not.

They have to game wins by beating on the possession battle, beating on the pace battle, you

know, um, doing a good enough job neutralizing your best players and your best actions and

then going from there because they're not going to beat you off of a half-core shot making.

And they're not going to beat you like definitely either with their, with their free throws,

right?

So it's like you're trying to cover up for these other aspects of the game that they're

not good at.

And when those parts that they use to cover up the other aspects of the game are not there,

the whole thing falls apart.

That's kind of what I'm seeing here.

Yeah.

I think you're right about all of it.

And I think the question is, you know, is there something else that's bolstering get

them to do so that they lock in in that area, but they almost need to be perfect.

The way that the roster is constructed, they can't slip up in any way from an effort perspective

or from an assignment perspective or anything like that or else it all falls on bam defensively.

And a huge problem that they have got back to it again last night is that hero and power

are not additive to each other enough offensively because it seems like they're subtracted.

It just looked like taken turns again.

It just looks like they're subtracting from each other offensively.

And then when they're on the court on the other side, it's just not tenable.

So I don't know where you go with that.

I mean, they had their wings back.

They had wagons.

They had hawkies.

They had Larsen.

They kind of looked like they looked in the Cleveland series last year, just like against

a team that's much, much better.

And I guess this projects forward and this is going to be the point that those who want

them to tank, which they're never going to do, not to the degree that the spurs did for sure.

I don't know how you get there in the modern age by just kind of middling around the middle

and hoping to strike on the right opportunity while being able to show a star that you

have some pretty good players and show another team that you can trade them some pretty good

players.

I just don't know that that's going to happen.

I know it's their philosophy.

I have the other.

It is.

But I understand the philosophy.

I get it.

I understand why they believe that they in a past CBA might have been able to accomplish it.

Maybe with the way the players operated in terms of coming out early, but or wanting

to be traded early before they become free agents and all that.

You try to adjust to that.

You try to jump in on the odds.

Now, there's a lot of Yannis talk today.

The league's getting involved in, you know, basically the bucks trying to sit him down

where he doesn't want to sit down.

It does not seem like he's going to stay there, but now there's all these other teams

like Houston.

You predicted that that we're going to get heavily involved in the offseason.

And then you've got like, I think Bill Simmons saying that he shouldn't trade all their young

players for Yannis because they're worried about Yannis's future, but and his health.

But how do you, I mean, you to get one of those guys, you're going to have to take that

kind of risk.

So I just, it's just a bad position because like they're never going to get a Wembee.

They're never going to get a Wembee.

I mean, it's like you have to tank.

The spurs have done this twice.

Okay.

And they got generational players by tanking them right here.

Yeah.

That's an exaggeration either because you know how some people throw out that word pretty

loosely.

Like they tanked and these players are generational.

Like this is a generational player.

Maybe more generational than Tim Duncan.

They had Kauai in the middle of it.

Well, they got Kauai 15th overall.

They didn't tank for him.

Yes.

They did have him.

And David Robinson was generational also and that was the number one overall pick.

And even though they had to wait out his two year navy commitment, you know, that's

where it was.

So it's very frustrating.

I know as a heat fan to watch that on the court last night and say, we're not going

to get one of those.

We're also probably not going to get us to fun castle.

We're probably also not going to get right.

We don't have the assets to trade for someone like Fox.

Like if the heat traded for Fox, like that would be the move.

But on the spurs, he's like one of four.

And I just, I don't know how you're going to match that level.

Look, the heat aren't the only team having trouble with this, by the way.

Okay.

The spurs.

I mean, Orlando got the number one overall pick, but they kind of got it in the wrong

year.

And like Palo is a very good player.

But he's not a Wembee.

Like it all depends on what year you get it.

And there was really, if you look at that draft, they didn't really miss on anybody.

I guess Jalen Johnson, but I don't know that he would have been better as a number

one than Palo is.

So it's just, it's luck.

It's all of that.

But I just, again, I don't know how you match fire.

Would they be better with chat right now instead of Palo?

They might be.

They might be, but it seems a little bit unfair that OK, C has chat is their number three.

Right.

Yeah, I just, I don't know how you get there.

And I know this is going to be all the on our discord and on Twitter.

Oh, they told you shows they had to tweet, they had to tank.

Again, unless you were planning on tanking from day two of the season, you were not going

to outtank eight of the teams that are in the mix right there.

OK, does that have to be the standard though?

Because it's like, you're not going to beat those teams.

I definitely, but like, I think some heat fans are like, they'll be OK, like, especially

with the way that things stand now.

I feel like they're just rooting for the heat to get into the lottery, even if it is

the back, because they saw what like what happened with Dallas, right, where they had

the 12 best chances or whatever it was.

11 best chances, 10 best chances and ended up a Cooper flag.

I feel like people are just hoping that they get a lottery pick, even if it is a small

chance at moving up in the actual lottery.

I just, I don't think you can outtank a lot of these teams there at the bottom.

Like, there's like a group there.

It's, it's a firm like, they're really good at it.

Yeah, they're real, real good at it.

They also pivoted.

They pivoted so early, like Memphis waited, right?

They were kind of like the last ones in before the party ended, right?

And they also weren't that good before they made that decision.

So it was like a safe place, but they could make it.

Milwaukee waited too long, like right?

Milwaukee's not probably not going to get in the top eight as a result of it.

Indiana was like, okay, we're making this trade.

We got to stay on the top.

They may not stay on the top four anyway.

They may not keep that pick, because I think even if they still only have a 52% chance,

I will never get over that.

That is such a crazy like level of gambling by an organization to gamble away.

They never, they never get that right, because that's been a really good organization.

But that and they got a very good player in Zubat.

Like that is that is very, very, very, I mean, Zubat's is not what we're going to do.

So I always give up a number five pick for Zubat, and he's real good.

Yeah, I know.

So that's that's pretty much where it's all right.

So on the other side of this, we'll talk about where the heat go from here.

But I guess my overall thought off the game, we didn't really do a post game again,

because we were a little short staffed ourselves.

But also, it's because like what do you say?

Wemme is, I mean, he's like doing more in one play than I know,

bam, just scored 83, I get it.

But like watching, bam did some amazing things.

Even though they didn't have a great game.

But I mean, there was one, I mean, that one time you and I were like,

he's like, re, I don't know how he reflected.

So like he said, but it's like, it really is.

It's like watching and it's not just Wembee.

It's the whole team and it's been this way against a lot of these teams lately,

except Houston, who they played really well against and took to the wire.

But then their thighs got the better of them again.

And I just like key in on Wembee is like, they're going to kill you with,

they're all, they're all their other guys.

That's why it's like, I mean, I said it on our discord last night.

I know it might be impulsive and reactionary because they blew out the heat so much.

But I felt like I've been really impressed by this first this season,

not only because of like their impressive wins over the thunder,

which Wembee was bragging about to a certain extent last night

when bringing up his MVP case, but also just because of what they have there.

Like just, I don't know how you deal with that team.

It's just they haven't actually made it to the playoffs.

So those type of teams usually don't just go out and win right away.

He might, if there is going to be an exception,

it might be him and this team just because they have so many threats out there.

Like Fox, Vaselle, Castle, Harper, the width,

those guys are all making plays and it can all kill you.

If you leave them to try to key in on Wembee,

they have shooters like Champagne and Barnes, you know that it's,

that team is going to be a real problem.

I think they're kind of like in their own class there with the thunder.

I don't know if that's too impulsive to put them ahead of all the other

good West teams, but that's kind of where I'm at right now.

But they also might have gotten too good to quit because I,

they kind of wanted to have one more year to add another piece.

But again, now they may not need to.

But they're going to add, I mean, I got to see the updated rankings.

I saw like three or four days ago, like that they were going to have the

pick right in front of the heat.

So like, even though it's not an elite pick,

they're going to add a lottery caliber talent, right?

This upcoming year, they have Carter Bryant who's developing,

who's that type of player as well, and they have all these other guys.

Like, honestly, I might go the other way and say,

this is, this is the type of generational timing that you need to build the

dynasty because they're getting all these guys on their rookie scale deals

other than Fox, really, you know, like their Harper is giving you great

production already.

Castle is still there.

Like, I think once you start having to pay a bunch of these guys is

where things can get tricky because you have to make decisions.

And maybe some guys might not be worth what their technical market is.

But they have so many guys on rookie scale deals that they might be able

to just take advantage and still, you know, like have some flexibility

before they, they're locked in, you know, I'm sorry,

I didn't mean to make this into a sparse box.

I mean, we're making it into a sparse box.

We don't want to talk about the heat right now, which again, I understand.

It's not that I'm drifting.

It's just like, what are they going to do?

Like there's nothing to do.

Like there's no, the heat, adding one star, like this idea,

you add one star to bam or whatever is not going to get you to compete

with that team consistently.

Like you're, you're just, you're stuck, okay, you're stuck.

And the best that you can do is like hope that you get a down year in

your conference and like you get something like Jason Tatum being out

for the whole year, right?

Or Tyrese Halliburton being out for the whole year, right?

Or Detroit being at the top seed, but being kind of wobbly.

And then their best player and their VP candidate gets hurt.

Well, all of that shit has happened.

And the heater in the ninth spot headed towards 10.

And so it's really, there have been some things lately that I was

positive about prior to this run or this, this negative streak.

The fact that they've, they've leaned into the young players and

that they've done well with, you know, some of those young guys have done

well, they've got more minutes and it haven't suffered much in the

standings.

And that's all good.

But in terms of where this is going, when you see them line up against

some of these other teams, you're like, okay, even if you can challenge

them for a night, you ain't challenging them for seven games or four out of seven.

You just not, it's, it's not going to happen.

And so I, I don't, we're just headed towards the same exact place we've

been headed towards with heat fans rooting for them to lose in the play.

And with the hoping for a savior to come out of the sky.

And I mean, look, there's no savior coming out of the sky.

I mean, again, you trade for Yannis and you hope for the best, I guess.

That's, that's, that's, that's exactly what it is.

Like you, you try to make the right moves on the margins, keep hitting your

draft picks because that's like you, you brought up the CBA stuff earlier.

And I thought that was a great point where like that's team building stuff and

how that affects everything now.

Like hitting on draft picks and hitting on guys, we're going to give you

production on rookie skilled deals is definitely, you know, that's been helping

the heat a lot.

It's been doing a lot of the work there holding up this team because the

rest of it is just depending on, like you said, like a, a Yannis come here

and we'll hit it.

We'll try to hit on the margins otherwise.

That's kind of what it feels like the game plan is right now.

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All right.

So let's just pivot real quick here to the Cleveland back to back on the road.

Are we feeling good about this?

It's hard to feel good about it right now.

Like I know that I still think like I said that they're capable of getting like a win

here.

But it's just how that doesn't sway me.

You know what I mean?

Like, yeah, I don't.

I'm not even trying to like preemptively take away credit if they do get a Cleveland win.

Like that's that would still be a fine win for them for sure, even without Jared Allen,

like whatever.

That's that team is better than you.

It's a good win.

I just don't know like if they can pull that off.

I don't know that it changes anything for me.

Like I don't think it would affect my opinion on what's going to happen this season, even

one bit.

It just feels like they are, they just don't have enough, you know, and it's not what

I suppose is ever going to say, but they just don't have enough to deal with these teams

that have so much more talent and just like versatility of weapons, right?

Like I, you know, I don't think like all these other teams have to be so perfect on the

margins and on the possession battle every night, just to scrounge together wins.

You know, like that, that doesn't show me like, you know, that you're a team that is capable

of winning a round or two in the playoffs.

I don't, if you're good at that, that's great.

You should be good at ancillary things.

You should be good at defense and rebounding and try to win a title.

But if that's all you got is trying to depend on that, then that's to me a red flag.

And I feel like this team has shown you some of those red flags, especially when you combine

it with like the clutch stuff.

Yeah, I don't like this matchup for them at all.

I do think they may be able to get a split there.

Sometimes in those situations, those two furs in the same spot, you're able to make some

adjustments.

You know what I think part of this is, is that when you're, when you're hoping for certain

things to work and you're kind of looking ahead to again, a full roster, well, we get how

we get how we get hero, we get we get parrow, we get how hero and power back, right?

We get where and bam, we get all of the Wiggins comes back.

We've got Larsen.

We've got Yakkochonis in the rotation.

Hakez is back.

All these things happen.

And then you put it on the floor.

It looks like shit.

Yep.

It's just, it's got to be deflating for the players, too, because it's not that the players

aren't trying.

It's not that the players don't care.

It's not that Spowe doesn't care.

It's just that there are limitations and then there are fit issues.

And we've talked about some of the fit issues.

And now they're going to be contractual issues.

You've got a guy who I know you and I were fan of in Yovych who's this been a total, total

disaster of a season.

And now that's a contract on the books that you've got to figure that out in the off season.

That's exactly right.

Right.

Yeah.

I mean, that affects others in terms of what, whoa, he's this guy's getting paid this.

Why aren't I, there is, it's just, it's, it's just a lot.

And now you're coming down the stretch.

There's no momentum.

Spowe can't say we're getting close.

I can feel it.

They haven't been close.

The Houston game was the one game that they were close.

Again, they played over their heads in the game without a lot of players credit to them

for that.

And then they blew it all by with a miscommunication and some sloppy effort on the last play.

Like, I just, I don't know what, no, look, they'll get, they should get wins against

Indiana.

They got Washington, you know, they've got, I think three games in the schedule that should

be wins.

They make end up closing with 42, 41, better than expected.

But it's still going to be playing.

It's still, it, it may be road playing.

If they win, what's the best case scenario?

Maybe they, maybe they get Detroit without Cade, maybe I, probably Boston, I, I just don't,

it's hard to get excited about.

Please no more Boston series, please, I can't, I can't, it's just, it's, it's hard to get

excited about.

I know you're going to make me cover the Celtics locker room and I'm not looking forward

to it.

I don't know.

Well, yes, I am going to make you cover the Celtics locker room.

Just tell me, tell me the, before we close here, one final thing, just, I'm watching

Wembe in person.

I mean, I watched a little of the warm up and in your view, does he have a chance, does

he have a chance?

I'm not saying he will be because, I mean, I saw MJ at the peak of his powers and, you

know, I didn't see will to the peak of his powers, okay?

But we're cream sort of, I'm as young.

And then obviously we saw LeBron at probably the best version of LeBron.

Does, if that guy could say healthy eight to 10 years, he haven't chance to be the best

player of all time?

Oh, man, toughest of tough questions for real, man, like, I think he has the potential

definitely to get into that upper class, if, you know, if he remains healthy because

the way that he, it's, like, it's not just size, you know, with him, it's not just

size.

It's what he's able to do with that size, his mentality that he heads into, like, these

seasons and these games with where, like, he is really, he wants it all.

He wants it all.

The way that he's developed since he's came into the league where it's not just him developing

on his length, like, he's added stuff to his game, has gotten better at things that he

was already good at.

I mean, last night, he was really impressed with me with just his ability to make quick

passes and get off the ball quick, like, there's no, there's not a lot of wasted time.

And wasted possessions with him, like, he, he's making these jumps that players take years

to make.

And so I feel like he is hitting all these strides and look, he, he, he spoke about

this last night in the press conference too, that, you know, they didn't try to skip

steps, you know, when, like, when, when he was asked about being, like, a championship

contender, he said, like, yeah, we're all here chasing championship.

We all want to win championships, but we didn't want to speed things up too much.

We didn't want to skip steps with this young core, it just kind of happened.

And that's why it's like, yeah, that's exactly the type of stuff that you want to see if

you're depending on a team to turn into like that, you know, um, that team that's just

going to be around a lot, you know, in these playoff runs.

I think that's what the spurs are heading for here with the type of young forward they

have.

And even if and when Fox moves on, like, he's from now, like, you know, like, they, they're

so well put together and set up for the future.

I just know they're going to be around for a while in these long playoff runs and the way

Victor approaches the game, how good he out dominant.

He is now being one of the five best players in the world, maybe three best players in

the world already.

I think, yeah, he's going to be in that class when it's all said and done, if, if he stays

healthy, he's going to be in that class of players that we talk about as like the all-time

greats for sure.

He's he, he hits all the boxes that you want to see all he does.

He does.

He also hits all the face of the league boxes, which means that he's going to get benefits

of the doubt that other players don't get, which is going to help him, uh, going forward.

He also seems very driven by slights, which is a Jordan thing.

And I don't think I've seen it in someone else where he knows, I mean, to break down that

thing about defense for the MVP last night, like, that is, that's targeted at Yokech.

I don't know.

It's weirdly targeted SGA, because SGA is a great defensive player, but like, it's targeted

at Luke and Yokech.

Uh, and that's, you know, for guy to go out a lot of limb like that, that is, uh, that

is something.

Anyway, we'll talk more.

We're going to do another episode with Brady.

We're going to keep trying to fix shit, but I mean, I, if smoke can't do it, we can't

do it.

So I'm not trying to.

By the way, it's, I, I started to throw this in at the end here, but he did bring up

Yannis when he talked about guys who won like MVP and defense player, he seems to respect

him.

Yeah.

So there you go.

The heater, the heater trying to get their Wembee counter in Yannis 10 years older with

that.

Have a good one, everybody.