ALARMING Comments From Female Lindsay Clancy Jurors, Shock Elizabeth Holmes Doc, and Frank Turek on One Year Since Charlie Kirk | Ep. 1394

0:00Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show live on Sirius XM channel 111 every week day at Neast. Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show and Happy Wednesday. We have a very, very strong program for you today. There's a lot going on. Frank Turx is going to be here. He was of course a dear, dear friend of Charlie's. He talks in the book writes in the book about what it's like to mentor someone who you know is smarter than you. He was so close with Charlie and they went on long, long walks together and he helped educate Charlie on Christian apologetics and arm Charlie with information before he went out on these campus tours where Charlie would perform so brilliantly on the subject of Christianity in large part because of Frank. He's got a new book out today and he's going to come and talk to us a bit about it. First, however, jurors from the Lindsey Clancy Trial are speaking out. Okay, I've got to start with this.

1:04We're still a couple months out, but the midterms are fast approaching and make no mistake if the house flips. It is a very big deal for our economy that uncertainty is one of the reasons to consider diversifying with gold from Birch Gold Group. In the three months leading up to the 2024 presidential election, the price of gold jumped over 12%. Why it's a hedge against uncertainty. If you do not own gold, consider talking with Birch Gold. They will discuss your goals and explain how precious metals can fit into your savings. They can even help you convert an existing IRA or 401k into an IRA in gold for no additional money out of pocket. Text the letters MK to the number 989898 and get a free Info Kit and some solid information. The midterms will be here before you know it. Text MK to 989898 now. Remember last week when we were having an argument with the MK True Crime Panels, you know, everybody, they were all there and we were arguing about, okay, it's 11 to 1 we think.

2:05Which way do we think it was 11 to 1? Could it be that the 11 are on the side of the prosecution and the one is on Lindsey Clancy side? Johnis Bellborn, I kept hope alive on that front. Phil Holloway was saying, I don't think so. No, I think it's 11 for Lindsey. And boy, was he right or John and I so off. We gave this jury way too much credit way too much credit. I in my defense in Johnis too, we weren't able to see the jurors like if I had seen even just these three, I think I would have known from the start where this is going as as would you. It's incredible. Three of them sat down with this woke Boston journalist who's got her pronouns in her bio and was on the governor's board of the human rights campaign, which of course is the far left LGBTQ brigade that's been shaming corporations for how woke they aren't and trying to

3:14get them to be even more wokenfied for the past several years. And event this woman from NBC Boston, she sat down with these three female jurors and these female jurors are straight out of your nightmares for what kind of juror might wind up at the Lindsey Clancy or any other trial to be honest. I mean, I think most of us thinking people were horrified when we heard them speak. I mean, genuinely horrified. One sound bite was worse than the next, including the four person. And they all went after the one male hold out juror. They were disgusted with this guy. I mean, they didn't even wait until Lindsey Clancy was wheeled back into the mental facility before they started attacking this guy publicly. And we can tell you here why like there are reasons. Okay, watch this one. He was very arrogant. He really did not take anything that anybody said.

4:19The nurses, he tried to ask a question about the medications and we went back to the report from social hospital. We had the toxicology report. We could see exactly the amounts. The nurses in the room spoke to that and they spoke to that specific thing. That was a question that he had. And he just completely disregarded the information that they gave him. I mean, he had reasonable doubt. He admitted he had reasonable doubt after we watched that video of the interview. I think that's what it was. He admitted he had reasonable doubt. And I started filling out the forms. I was so excited. I actually did with three forms. I had a fill out. And I started filling them out. I wrote my signature on each one. And then he said, but I'm still not going to say that she's not guilty by reason of an accident. Okay, they're mad because he was arrogant. Unlike you ladies,

5:26who seem very humble and open-minded to differences of opinion. By the way, that was jury four person Ronnie Clark there at the end, retired fifth grade special needs teacher, appearing to try to complete the jury verdict forum without taking a final vote. She was already so excited to find her not guilty. What do you mean? He rained on her parade. He pissed all over her pen as she was excitedly writing down not guilty. And now she's mad. Also, we had Jura Paula Devlin there who worked for government contractors saying the jury was using analysis by the nurses on the jury that was calling on their own expertise. And it was not part of the evidence or testimony presented at the trial. Well, this is a potential problem. Madam, this is not something you should be boasting about to some journalist. As the federalists Sean Davis pointed out on X, this may have been in violation of judge William Sullivan's jury instructions. Here is what the judge told them before they started deliberating. Watch.

6:29You are not to decide this case based on anything you may have read or heard outside of this courtroom. So if somebody has a question in that jury room, you are not allowed to try and answer it by anything other than through the exhibits and evidence you've heard. All right. We said, so I just kind of want to make that real clear. Okay. So going in there and pretending you are a mini expert as a nurse is really not in the spirit of those jury instructions. Now everybody brings in their life experience and that's normal. But acting as a little mini expert to interpret the toxicology report for the lone hold out juror and then to get pissed off that he's not listening. That's really what that was. Okay. So you could argue about whether it was appropriate for them to be trying to be the little mini experts in there. You know, conducting their own little experiments on the toxicology report based on whatever knowledge

7:31they have. But this hold out jurors decision to reject that as not the expertise. He was going to base a life or death decision on was entirely appropriate. And these two, these people are too clueless to understand that they're actually openly bitching about it saying like he was arrogant because he didn't accept our expertise. No one called you as experts. You were there as lay people citizen jurors. And there was more. There was more about this woman was the worst. I mean, it's tough to pick. But I think this woman Kelly Farina, a retired chef was the worst of the three. She everything she said was annoying. And in particular, just listen to this thing went viral yesterday for obvious reasons. But think how stupid you'd have to be to say this on camera and not think it was going to cause a stir. Listen, we read him on numerous occasions the definition

8:34of a reasonable doubt from Jackson Sullivan's instruction. He actually said one day in the end, why don't we have the judge coming and read it again? And we were like, no, we have it in front of us. But he had the hardest time getting off the fact that Lindsey viciously killed her children. Did he was that difficult for him? Why wasn't it difficult for you? She actually thinks we're going to hear that sentence and be on her side, not his. And we're going to say, oh, this unreasonable prick. He had a really difficult time getting off the fact that she viciously killed her children. Yeah, same. I guess there's some woke liberal annoying contingent that is listening to this saying, yeah, that pisses me off. I think the vast majority of normies out there is on the side of the man. Yes, we also had a really

9:38difficult time getting past the fact that she viciously killed her children. Yes, that's a normal human reaction to what she did. The jurors, they also were very critical of the prosecution. And you got to hear why, all right? It wasn't like they didn't persuade me that she knew what she was doing. It wasn't that you'll hear what it was. Let's listen to a few sound bites here. I just found it to be harsh, so very, very harsh. We weren't trying to figure out she murdered the children. She did. And she's admitting that. We're trying to figure out, did she know right from wrong at that time? And with everybody saying she loved her children so much and everything proved she loved her children from our journals to her mother-in-law, everything proved that she loved her children. So she had to have snapped. Okay, that snapped doesn't it doesn't advance the discussion at all. That was the four-person

10:42Ronnie Carlson. And then back to Kelly Farina, our favorite who had this to say about the prosecution. The fact that they had no character witnesses to in Mugatulindzi of being a bad mother. I mean, right out of the gate, it was like you were presenting all these medical professionals, but nobody's presenting and for the prosecution a woman and a mother of three children. So I found it to be biased right out of the gate. I found the muscle to be kind of unprofessional. And just without a heart and for me that right away I was like, okay, where is this going right from statement one? There is no compassion in this courtroom right now, which I guess is expected of a prosecution. But I thought it was very cold. Oh my god. I mean, you failed prosecution. You failed on jury

11:48selection. That's what we've seen here. You utterly forget, forget that nonsense about no compassion and no heart. The prosecutor's break had compassion for the babies who were murdered. She had a lot of compassion for the three children and was there to represent them. She was not supposed to be Oprah Winfrey, you fucking idiots. I like what they were biased because they didn't call character witnesses to tell us that Lindsey Clancy is a bad mom. I think they thought the corpses of her children would be proof enough. You idiot. I like, this is unbelievable. The prosecution failed so terribly on jury instruction. That's where this case was clearly lost, clearly lost. I mean, I don't know how these people made it on. There were questions. A lot of us had questions about the fact that there were nine women on the jury.

12:49You know, I mean, the women, they tend to be tender hearts. Their empathy gets exploited. Their entire lives so that it stays super alive and they can be super woke when they grow into full grown women. Except when it comes to the unborn, you're not allowed to have any empathy for them. And as it turns out, in Massachusetts, for the born, but not yet, adult children. This is the most absurd. She was unprofessional and biased because she didn't call a character witness telling everybody that Lindsey Clancy was a bad mom. I mean, you figure that out. I can't figure it out. She didn't have compassion for Lindsey Clancy, the murderer who she was trying to convince the jury should be locked up behind bars. I get sister. This is a McDonald's. What are you talking about? You are not on the set of Oprah. The three jurors who spoke to NBC Boston. I mean, not going to be surprised to learn. Had a much more favorable view. I mean, honestly, I think they had the hots for Lindsey Clancy's defense lawyer, Kevin Reddington. Watch.

13:51This whole demeanor was funny. And there was one time, whatever he said, I don't know, but I went he was entertaining, which was good because we needed some of that. In arrogant at the same time. Like arrogant in entertaining, he would go back and forth between that. Yeah, like compassionate. Yes. His compassion towards Lindsey was amazing. And entertaining. That's his job. Sure. And the one woman, the long blonde hair, says, and arrogant, arrogant, arrogant through his compassion. What? Yeah. We have a bunch of no-nothings sitting in this jury on this jury, but so compassionate toward Lindsey. I mean, Kevin Reddington played them like a like a fiddle, like good for him. Total win for him in that way. Just completely had

14:54them eating out of his hand. You are so stupid. You don't realize how you've been so manipulated. You're so dumb. You didn't even realize this was all a manipulation of you. No, nothings. But okay, you feel good about yourself. Great. CBS Boston also spoke, this is CBS. That was NBC. CBS also spoke to a juror. Juror number five, a female who wanted to remain anonymous, who had a different take on what happened with the holdout juror. Listen. I was a majority of the people on, it doesn't matter what side it was on, it was very firm, and they're like stamps and their their bullies kind of from the beginning. The standalone juror was not the only one that was unwilling to deceiving from the other side. So I'm going to kind of defend that individual in a sense. There were some big personalities in that but at the end of the day, I thought it just came down to an inability to kind of move past

16:02your convictions and you know, you got down to my charge to be unable to self-analyze yourself and be like, okay, I'm like this in something. Am I failing to acknowledge or give this away? That's not like this doubt, wait, that needs. That person, the, the door to the room was trying to kind of sway that person from the very beginning. And he wasn't swayable, tough shit. That's what it means to be on a jury. He had an inability to move past his convictions. Why should you move past your convictions when you hold a person's freedom in your hands? Isn't that the moment that you really should hold on to your convictions? I mean, this is so absurd. If the shoe were on the other foot, we would see this so clearly. If the holdout had been for a not guilty verdict and everybody else had been for guilty, he should have just moved past his convictions to convict somebody. No,

17:03we would all see how absurd that is. Well, the same holds when the shoe was on the other foot. So like, grow up, this jury need to grow up. And by the way, very interesting there, she talks about his doubt. And she just talks about doubt, right? When you heard the other three ninnies, they were over there talking about it was reason, but he had reasonable doubt. And he refused to apply it. Well, that's not what the four person that's short-haired lady there said in her juror note to the judge. She didn't say he has reasonable doubt. Even Kevin Reddington didn't say that. And he would have said that if he thought it would have helped him in his papers or before the judge. He just said this holdout juror is saying he has doubt, but won't apply this standard of reasonable doubt to it. And that now when she sat down with the NBC reporter, she changed to two. He had reasonable doubt. Oh, really? He didn't write that in your note. Now you write that because you want to upend what he did. You want to challenge him. You want to say somehow he was so unreasonable. That's not what you wrote. Why didn't you write that? That would have actually really gotten

18:03gotten people's eyebrows up. The judge probably would have felt an obligation to voidier the juror. But that's not what you wrote. And juror five there, you just heard her. She referred to the fact that he had doubt. Again, you're allowed to have doubt. The standard is not must be found guilty beyond beyond any doubt on earth. And therefore you can hold out. It's beyond any reasonable doubt. So if you have a reasonable doubt, you, you may not vote to exonerate the person. This guy clearly had a doubt, but he didn't think it rose to the level of a reasonable one. And therefore was ready to vote guilty. That's his prerogative. He wanted to find her guilty because while he had some doubt unexplained about some element of the case, and we have no idea whether it was even a material element. He was persuaded beyond a reasonable doubt that she knew what she was doing. He's entitled to that POV. This is this post verdict pile on by these

19:06hands is just so repugnant. The same juror number five here speaking to CBS also said she originally was ready to vote guilty. So where did you come down from the very beginning? Like what was your vote? So originally I thought as though she was guilty and she was finally responsible for it. And maybe I still believe that in a certain way. I think that this was a woman who she was not mentally healthy. She was someone that was in the swirls of a significant mental health crisis. Trying to really just felt like she was so deep in it that she couldn't see her way out. Okay, so she's allowed to want to vote guilty, but this other guy is not. She was ready to vote guilty

20:09and so was he and he held on to that position, but she didn't and therefore he's bad. He needed to be brow beaten. What she said there, tracks with NBC Boston's reporting that four jurors four did not want to go for the not guilty by reason of insanity when they began the deliberations before three of them were eventually persuaded to join the majority, but this last juror was not. So you had four who were like, I think she's guilty. I'm not ready to go with the not reason not guilty by reason of insanity. They managed to get three out of the four over to their side, but not the fourth. And now they're just, I guess, going to spend the next few weeks and months trying to paint him like he was some rogue dude who wouldn't apply the law. They clearly, by the way, it was very clear. And I said this to you guys last week. What happened was they got the dynamite charge from the judge that basically said there will never be two

21:13twelve jurors who know this case better than you who have more sensitivity toward the facts than you who could be more fair than you. So please, please, please, try to come to a verdict. Okay. And I said on the air last week, obviously they took that and they decided we're just going to turn on the holdout juror and try to find a way to either kick him off or strong harm him into our side. And I said, I believe this argument that he had a doubt, but it's not, he's not applying the reasonable doubt standard properly was just their attempt to brow beat this guy or eject him. And that seems very clear. I mean, you heard in that one woman's sound bite, you know, sure, well, we have the dynamite charge. And so like we had to decide what to do. I mean, that's exactly what happened. That's really not what the dynamite charge is supposed to be used for. He wasn't persuaded. You shouldn't be bullied into changing your verdict when you actually don't believe a change of verdict is necessary. Everybody has to live with their conscience. I've served on a jury. I know what I'm talking about served on a whole trial for a week. I was

22:17hosting America's newsroom with Bill Hammer at the time. We talked all about it. Juror number five, just like her other fellow three female jurors had some criticism for the prosecution. Watch this. Just tell me a little more about like the evolution for you because I'm interested because you mentioned how there are so many strong personalities in there. But then tell me how you kind of, you know, you changed a little bit. At the end of the day, there was so much doubt. The prosecution had a figurative smoking gun. There was not a single moment to wrote that presentation in that case that you could say, oh, yep, 100 percent. I'm certain she did it or that she didn't do it. There's too much gray area. And eventually, I decided the only way to get justice for Laura Dawson and Callan and Patrick and her parents and everyone else that was closest was to get her to help that she desperately needed. And there's a little way

23:20she's going to help it. Okay, there's no smoking gun. What? I don't really even know what to say about that. Like, this is why the trialers don't like interviewing jurors after the fact. As you find out, just how clueless they were. They say bizarre things, dumb things. Remember, I guess we're telling us some stories last week. This is why in both interviews, the jurors described how disturbing it was to hear Lindsey's husband, Patrick Clancy call 911. That means they're human. That's good. Because like the Daily Mail reporter who was in the courtroom said it was life changing. Everybody who listened to that 911 call seemed deeply, deeply disturbed by it. And this is something that the public has still not had access to. They have not released the audio. But the jurors did hear it. And they were affected. Watch. How did you react to the 911 call? That's something that I will never

24:22not hear. If I think about it, it was the most horrific thing. And when we hear it again, in the jury room, we were crying again. We were just like, my God, the desperation, the despair, and his voice was, I get it. It's something that will stick with me. And I felt that it was genuine. It was absolutely genuine. There's no doubt about that. The word jurors that had to put in their ear pods and just could not hear it. They had to turn up their music and put it in because it just was too much. Once was enough. I will never be the same after that 911 call. After we learned, like after the trial, I saw all conspiracy theories about how Patrick did it and that he somehow convinced Lindsey that she had done it when it was really him. And all the things that if these people could have heard of that like the digital

25:29the black, her lame scream, I don't think I could name a single author after a second of performed that or he did. And I was like, he formed it. But like, I will never be the same after that. Yeah, it was horrifying. I have no doubt. And I'm sure it was even more horrifying to be one of the three children, Korra, Dawson or Callum. And having your mother, it's not the life right out of you. Strangle you to death with an exercise cord while you struggle to breathe. That blood vessel is breaking in your eyes, struggling to get any air in your lungs and having your mother who's so much bigger than you. And the one person you've depended on your entire life for sustenance, love and existence, turn on you and try to successfully end your life.

26:33I'm sure just as difficult as it was for those jurors to hear that 911 call, it was far more difficult for the children to have their lives snuffed out by their mother. And I don't want to hear any more nonsense from these idiots about where was the prosecution's compassion. They had compassion for the children. That's who deserved it. Go back to your cooking and stay there. I hope they never serve again, not on a case with real victims. This was an abomination. These women, I'm horrified, not surprised, but I'm horrified. And I'm sure the prosecutor is looking at this thinking, good God. I don't know how this affects Tim Cruz's decision about whether to go forward. I mean, if this is the Massachusetts jury pool, he's F'd. What's he going to do? I'm going to get 12 more like that. Good luck to you. I don't know what he's going to do. I

27:33like if he, if they kind of deal, it needs to be for a significant, like a guaranteed amount of time behind bars, like maybe okay, voluntary manslaughter, but it's going to have to be a hefty, hefty sentence. And I just don't know that Kevin Reddington is going to agree to that. I'm sure he wants Tim Cruz to agree to put her in a mental facility, arguing that's where she belonged. I convinced 11 jurors and I really hope Tim Cruz holds the line and says, no, she's going behind bars. She's going behind jail bars. That's the only deal we strike or we go back to trial. I, I hope that's what he does. He seems like a strong man. He knows his jurisdiction better than I do. So if he decides not to do it, we know we're going to have to realize that this was a man who tried to do what was right and maybe came to a reality that we may have to accept that there's just no rash, not enough rational jurors in his town for him to get a conviction on that. I don't, I don't know. Horrified. I want to keep going. There is now a copycat case, Cory Walsh at a villainoi. And

28:37I don't want to get into the details. I told you yesterday she, she hanged her two-year-old. Forgive me, a little boy. And he died. She had three other children, a baby, and two school-aged children above him and age. And then she got into the bathtub, had superficial wounds to her wrists and thighs, nothing life threatening, and was found by the neighbor because the other, the other children, obviously the school-aged ones had, I didn't know this yesterday, walked in on the crime. They either saw the mother killing their little brother or they saw him hanging. I'm sorry to just be talking about this in a way that feels casual. These are the facts. And they ran to the neighbors. The neighbor came over and the neighbor found the mother in the bathtub with bloody water. So clearly she had cut herself, but again, they're saying non-life threatening. I think the mother's fine physically. And it's an obvious

29:42copycat. The prosecutors alleged that she had been extremely interested in the Lindsay Clancy case and had been speaking about it on a text thread with friends just hours before this. She decided her two-year-old was the anti-Christ and the devil and killed him. And reportedly now when she came to or I don't know if she was even passed out, but she, the prosecutors alleged that she also believed she had killed her other three children. That was a new fact that emerged as well. And the defense lawyer, who by the way was on the Casey Anthony defense team, which disturbingly won that case. As you know, Casey Anthony is free and not in jail for murdering her child, which she clearly did comes out. And she has a couple of things to say to us, including this about the Lindsay Clancy relation, sought 18. They are not correlated at all. It's just accidental. And I'll be the judge of that.

30:47Not you. We have to be conscious of what the judge has told us. We can talk about and not talk about. But that speculation that this has anything to do, that it's a copycat or anything like that is baseless and cruel. Cruel. I'm not going to be taking any lectures from you on, cruel, madam. You're the reason Casey Anthony is running around free. And you are defending yet another mother who's murdered her child. So fuck off. We will be the, we will be the final say in arbiters on whether this had anything to do with Lindsay Clancy. And I for what I'm persuaded by her extreme interest in the case as expressed within hours of her doing this, that it did play a role. Call me crazy. That's where I am. She went on to play the psychosis card because it's working so well for juries

31:48out there, especially in blue states from Massachusetts to she hopes Illinois, slot 16. As you probably know, the judge denied pretrial release to a locked situation in a hospital, which is what we had hoped would happen given her psychological condition and the wounds that she's still recovering from. We're disappointed with the ruling, but we were going to continue to work really hard to investigate this case and present the defences correct, which is that she was psychotic. And this is not a first degree murder. Again, disagree. Here we go again. We're going to start this whole thing all over again, where these nut cases are going to be arguing that Corey Walsh, isn't to be held responsible for this crime because she was psychotic. And now we learn she also

32:51per NBC Chicago had drinks at home and a number of prescription bottles. Defensive attorneys argued she was in a state of psychosis when she attempted to take her own life and when she made statements to law enforcement and to hospital staff. What like that, her son was the devil. The friends in the group chat say that they noticed a shift in her texts hours before her son's death. Prosecutor citing witnesses had previously said that Walsh had quote recently become very interested in the Lindsey Clancy murder trial. According to court documents, Walsh quote had been actively discussing the case via group text message with her friends up until just hours before the tragic discovery was made inside her home. But on Tuesday, defense attorneys said those witnesses noted some unusual behavior from Walsh hours before members of the group chat described her messages as confusing and out of character. They said she believed Clancy's husband killed

33:51his children, Patrick Clancy, writing quote, it was manslaughter. Please help. I'm really freaking out. The neighbor who found Walsh also acknowledged she was unlike herself saying she had dilated eyes with a weird giggle. A firefighter and first responder told detectives she was in coherent in the ambulance as well. Defense attorneys noted that Walsh saw a counselor recently and had never previously displayed any signs of abuse toward the children. Here we go. Here we go. They also said, according to prosecutors, that she made statements intending to harm her husband, she said, when he arrived home saying she would poison him with a drink, noting that again, she also believed she had killed her other children as well. And yes, confirming here in the court documents that two other children who live in the home came back from school, quote, saw the situation unfolding and ran to a neighbor for help. That is just so awful. They again, forgive me, the neighbor

34:53quickly pulled bear at the two-year-old down. She had him in a noose and attempted CPR, but he had no pulse. These two other children saw that it's anyone going to account for the trauma to them? Anyone? This woman's lawyer is lecturing us on cruelty. She's representing an expert in it. Here we go again. There were drugs. Her pupils were dilated. She'd been drinking. She sounded weird on the text message. They're setting it up again. We're going to do it again. Her attorney says she was, quote, severely mentally ill at the time of the incident, requires treatment. Told the judge she was diagnosed with grief psychotic disorder. According to the National Library of Medicine, bereavement may lead to heterogeneous psychological

35:53responses, including prolonged grief disorder, depression, and psychotic-like experiences. Just, you know, I'm sorry, but a certain male gesture comes to mind. Just stop. Who died? I don't know who died. What's the grief psychotic disorder she has? Everything's a psychotic disorder. Just slap a postpartum psychotic disorder. Grief psychotic disorder. Pretty soon we're going to have trumped arrangements psychotic disorder. How many ways can we find to get mothers out of jail for murdering their children? Let's find out together. That's what these nutcases are asking us to do, to accept this as a new normal, a new phenomenon in which we're supposed to have empathy and compassion for the poor mothers who are the real victims here. Stop it. Just stop it. These jurors are an absolute nightmare who we saw Lindsey Clancy. And God only knows in Illinois, in the Corey Walsh case, we're probably likely to just look at a panel just like that. At least Illinois has a large farming community.

36:57You will find normies there. I know because I was born among them and I tried a case not far from there when I was a young lawyer. There are a lot of normal farmers in the Midwest, including in Illinois. And so there's at least a shot. I don't know this suburb that she is living in, but it's not far. I'm told outside of Chicago. And unfortunately, this woman, Andrea Lyon, who represents her now, Corey Walsh, is very, very good. She's been dubbed the Angel of Death Row because of her record. This is Perth and New York Post of wins and death penalty cases. She was a former law is a former law school dean and she was a member of Casey Anthony's legal team. As I mentioned, she, she quit the team in July of 2010 with Anthony's lead attorney, Jose Bias, citing financial issues, but she's no joke. So unfortunately, this woman has lawyers up Corey Walsh. I mean, she's got money. She's living in a million dollar home. Do we

37:59have the pictures of it, Deb? Like, this is a woman with means quite clearly. And she's probably got the best lawyers money can buy. Look at this. It's a beautiful home. Stunning green lawn looks like could be on an acre or more. And inside that home, a horror took place. Thank God for the school age children who ran, or this could have been much, much worse. They said that they found the baby upstairs on the floor of one of the rooms, just like left there. So thank God this did not follow the exact pattern of Valencia Clancy trial, where the children appeared to be running for their lives, at least Dawson. And she caught them because she was bigger and stronger and faster. And she used all of that to kill him. This is a dark week, you guys.

39:00You know, I sent out a tweet earlier today, yesterday. And I just was on with Pears Morgan and he asked me about it. And I'm just going to read it, because I don't know that I can repeat it exactly without reading it. But I don't know, maybe you're feeling this way too. What I wrote was the combination of the Lindsay Clancy story, the one year mark for Charlie's murder, and the 25th for 9-11 is a lot of darkness for one week. Hug your kids, go outside, hold hands. Thank God for the privilege of being alive, and say a prayer for the lost and grieving. You can get mired in it. You know, you can get mired in the darkness if you spend too much time with it. And we've been thinking about it as we outline our coverage for this week, because there's no way we are ignoring these nut cases in Lindsay Clancy or the Corey Walsh case, none whatsoever, or you're complicit.

40:01The Charlie anniversary one year mark is tomorrow. I've been dreading it all week. And I don't like I can't quite talk about it, but Frank Turck will be here in our second hour, and we'll give it a shot there when we try to discuss Charlie and turning point and where we all are right now. And I should tell you that we do have a Charlie special put together. It was the fourth episode of our tour documentary, and we posted it on a members only today. And I said to my team, let's pull that one and make it public. So we're going to air it tomorrow. Don't want that behind any sort of a paywall. So you'll see it. But there's the Charlie one year mark, and then there's the 25th anniversary of 9-11 on Friday, the 25th. And I don't know about you, but my timeline all over X is disturbing videos, 911 calls and emergency responder calls and so on. And it's important. It is very important.

41:05I support it because the younger generation doesn't have any memory of this. And they don't seem to understand what went down that day. They really don't. And so it's up to us, those of us who were and remember to remind them. They need to understand this. This would be like a VAR generation. Move right past Pearl Harbor and stop talking about that. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. You don't just move past it because the next gen wasn't there when it happened. This contemporaries of ours died that day. If you don't know somebody who died on 9-11, you probably know someone who knew someone or know somebody who was there or know somebody who was directly affected by it. You know, Port Sean Newman was with a fire company in New York City that day and wasn't supposed to be working. He commandeered an emergency responder truck to get down there. But his entire fire company died. And there before the grace of God, he would have died too.

42:08Had he been on duty? He's had to live with that. And the aftermath of digging out in ground zero forever more. And he's got ongoing health issues as a result of all of that. I mean, there is just so many, so many Americans who suffered that day and thereafter. And we will not be ignoring it. No, no, the answers no. So we'll deal with the darkness and the grief and the feelings of melancholy and suffering that it brings on. And then we will turn the page as we always do as Americans as humans right down to the microcosm of those who work on the MK show. And we will find some measure of light to shine because our world is not all darkness and awfulness and murderous mothers and others. It's it's it tends to be wonderful human beings. It tends to be a world guided by created by inspired by Christ. And there are billions of human beings right now trying

43:10to live in his model with his guidance with him as their guiding light. One of the reasons again, we have frank on today. But there's plenty of cost for hope. And it's in the second part of that tweet. Are your kids starting school right now? Mine are. You see them in their little uniforms or with their backpacks. They come home with the energy of a new day, new friends, new teachers, the funny stories, the good, the bad, the other, the the bleary eyed mornings where everybody's getting used to that alarm clock again. You know, the scarf from down to the breakfast as you run out to make it on time. And all the fun things that happen, you know, around it like the, you know, getting lost in your school and getting closer to graduation, depending on the kid. All of that is part of the spice of life. It's such a privilege if you have kids in your home again, so I'm a shallow bomb is associate path. I don't miss them at all. I'm glad they're gone. You know, it's all about me. I think most normal humans really enjoy their children. Not not necessarily

44:15100% of the time that we're all normal, but like we love having them at home. And if you don't have kids, and I know I have audience members who don't have kids because I I hear from them. They write to me and I write back sometimes. And that's fine too. I know I know that there are people listening right now who don't have kids but have family members who they love their families of origin who have pets. They freaking adore who make life work live it worth living who depend on them for their existence. And don't underestimate the power of that. You know, the animal kingdom is such a wonder. And they are such wonderful pets and additions to our lives even strutwick. And there's a lot of blessings that you can find in your own life if you just pause and look for them. So try not to get too mired in it. Try not to get too mired in the darkness. It, you know, it's just it's it's too depressing and you don't need to do it. You don't need to live your life like that. I do want to tell you about a couple of other things that have happened.

45:17There's the most fascinating Elizabeth Holmes clip on the internet. Now this woman, you know, what she did at Theranos is such a great story. I mean, it's just I mean, it's horrifying. Of course, but like the fraud that was committed is jaw dropping and riveting. And she apparently in the three months before she went off to prison allowed herself to be filmed by this documentary filmmaker. And he has just released the promo of his film with her. He's pretty well known this guy and he's working with another guy who just made the film on Chris Hansen. Remember Chris Hansen of To Catch a Predator was on the show. We talked about how they were making a movie about him starring Robert Robinson. So this other guy, the other filmmaker Oppenheim, um, produced that. But anyway, these two get access to Elizabeth Holmes and the one lived with her for the two to three months before she went off to prison and look at the tease. Look at the preview, the trailer. Watch. I'm not that person. I can promise you that.

46:22I don't have anything to deceive you on. Of course, I'm not deceiving you. I'm engaging with you as a human being. Why would I deceive you? There's no reason for me to do that. Okay. All right. Okay, good shot. You're being real right now. You're always being real. Wow. Oh, it's called you can see everything. It premiered at the Telluride Film Festival in Colorado.

47:23And apparently it is jaw dropping. I can't wait to see this. They're releasing it in theaters, but not until October, which seems like too far away. Vanity Fair wrote up what was in the movie. I'm not going to give it. They don't give spoilers and I'm not going to either because I don't know any, but listen to this tease. The 174 minute documentary was indeed worth the wait. It's full of unexpected twists and turns and shocking reveals with Nathan Fielder. That's the guy you just saw there. And Oppenheim having incredible access to Holmes and her husband, Billy Evans in the weeks leading up to her prison sense. It says, let's say raising their two children in San Diego, Bapapa, Fielder lived at home with them. It takes, after Holmes begins her sentence, the documentary continues, but takes an extremely unexpected twist that involves the appearance of a notable Hollywood actress. The audience was asked by the producers to not reveal the person who appears in the doc because of the overwhelming shock of that twist. I can't wait

48:25to find out what it is. I don't want to Google it. I want it to be a surprise. From there, the documentary offers many surprising revelations, especially when it pertains to Holmes' husband, whom she married in 2019. Fielder discovers that Evans seems to be very involved in, or perhaps even controlling over many aspects of Holmes' image, including her Twitter. But apparently there's more to that story. I am riveted. I'm all in. I want to talk to the husband. I want to talk to Holmes. And I definitely want to talk to these filmmakers. And if I can get any of them, I will bring them right here to you. Filling sluggish, bloated, not quite like yourself, life constantly bombards us with silent threats, processed foods, artificial light, non-stop stress, all of which can disrupt gut health, drain energy, and weaken immune health. When that happens, it's not that your body is broken. It's that it might be missing the right inputs. This is why I want to tell you about Armra colustrum. It's packed with more than 400 bioactive nutrients that they say can work at a foundational level to fortify gut health,

49:28support immune health, fuel recovery, and promote whole body vitality. Strong gut integrity can support metabolism, skin and hair health, and even performance and recovery, which is why colustrum has long been valued by some elite athletes as well. If you are looking to take back control of your health from the inside out, consider Armra. And they have a special deal for you. Go to armra.com slash Megan, or enter Megan to get 30% off your first subscription order. That's armra.com slash Megan. All right, I got a few things I got to go over with you. All right, first of all, something unbelievable happened with Wheel of Fortune. Have you seen this story? I mean, this is crazy. So Wheel of Fortune has an announcer, had an announcer named Jim Thornton. And he's the guy who does like, and you get a trip to Tahiti when you hit the right thing on the wheel. And he, like two weeks ago, was unceremoniously suspended from the show without explanation.

50:33They said it was because of something that happened on a flight, but they didn't tell us what it was, but it seemed clear he was out of a job. So we're all waiting. And they said that the police were waiting for him when the flight landed. So my own bet was like, did he feel somebody up? Did he like, what was it? Something sexual related? Well, last week, it comes out what it was. He was allegedly looking at child sexual abuse material, in particular, like an online chat forum about child sexual abuse on the plane while wearing a Wheel of Fortune jacket. And the person next to him, hashtag hero, took a picture and told the pilot, which is like, amazing. God bless that person. I don't know if it was a male or a female, but that was very ballsy, right? So like, can you imagine like, sneaking your phone up like, oh my god, taking the picture so you have the evidence and then also telling the pilots so that the authorities could be

51:35waiting when the plane landed. Now the police have not yet arrested him. So I'm not sure what's happening there. And his lawyer is denying the specifics of the charges, in particular that he was looking at child sexual abuse material. The lawyer has what to me sounds like a cockamami defense, suggesting his lawyer's Alison Hart told TMZ that the actor clicked on the site by mistake, by mistake. She said that he had become active in suicide prevention advocacy and that he spent time visiting chat rooms, offering support to individuals, suffering from suicidal ideation that he often viewed visited a suicide prevention website, whatever that was supposed to before that and that he claims he was sent a link to a different chat room by an acquaintance

52:35from the suicide prevention group. This site is intended for people experiencing pedophilic thoughts. He claims that he left the chat room after realizing what it was and that he did not engage in any illegal conduct. And again, he was not arrested. But the images published by the Daily Mail, which broke this story, are shocking and do appear to have some images that are rather disturbing. Okay, it's got a hold on. Do I have in front of me? I'm trying to find my packet from yesterday. Can you find that Kayla? I think I might you might have that. But in an event, it goes line by line. She's got the actual chat screen grabbed and it goes line by line. And in one of the lines, the user who we are told is this guy Thornton is saying that he's on an airplane. Can you believe I'm in an airplane and in a chat room like this? And somebody

53:39said, Oh, just don't be like the guy who got caught showing child sexual abuse material on his phone as a screen saver when he was exiting the London tube. Like, Oh, yeah, that would be wouldn't that be terrible? Do you have it? Thank you. Okay, so I had my team pull the actual screen grabs that the Daily Mail published. And they report, okay, looks like he was going under the user, Nicholas B 77. This hasn't yet been confirmed by the Daily Mail or others. It just looks like it's him. If you tie the circumstances together, you see those messages in the send part of the chat. So it looks like this is the person who's screen we are spying on. In this one, Nicholas B 77 writes, saw a couple of cute boys and a hot little girl at some venue he had just gone to. And then writes the word boy fest. In another one, you see him writing, well, it's crazy lifeline from the sky. What if someone sees a random sequence of lines on a

54:43screen? I love it because somebody wrote writes to him like, what are you doing? You know, like, it's very bold to be writing this on a plane. And he seems to be all for it. Okay, let me keep going. He writes, I hide the part that says we think when I say he, Nicholas B 77, who we think is him. I hide the part that says lifeline. So it's just a few lines. It's a big middle finger to demand who takes away every other enjoyable activity. We see L's. And then I can't see the rest of the sentence. I don't know what C L stands for about to certainly could be something like child lover. I don't know. Forgive me. I'm feeling in the blanks. Then he writes or Nicholas B 77 writes, I fire up the boy moment and start looking at the galleries. He, he. And somebody else wrote, just don't be the guy that got arrested getting off the two because he had child porn as his phone wallpaper. It's CP, which I think is child porn. And then there's a response. I mean, truly, the fact that I don't do any of that stuff makes me say, fuck it, free speech baby. And then I remember

55:48there was a guy on the plane who was actually looking at CP on his laptop on the flight. Yeah, he didn't fare so well either. Someone else wrote, how are people so addicted? They can't go a few hours without looking at something illegal. That response is probably more common than we like to pretend. I mean, all kinds of people get addicted to porn, although they expect us not to look at it. There's no help if we wanted it. Then there is Nicholas B 77 writing, Saunters to the bathroom for a quick wink on a 737 quote, I wonder if you were really horny how fast you could jack off in flight. Bet it's happened under a lot of blankets. Nicholas B 77 writes, well, somebody writes, well, you're on a plane, right? What if someone sees a Nicholas B 77 writes, yes, exactly. What if someone sees a random sequence of lines on a screen? I love it. And then that's where he says, I hide the part. This is lifeline. So it's just a few lines. Bapapah, wait a life. I are a boy moment and start looking at the galleries. He, he, somebody writes, just don't be that guy who got arrested going off the tube because he had CP as his phone wallpaper. Nicholas B 77 responds, yeah, right? I mean,

56:52truly the fact that I don't do any of that stuff makes me say, fuck it, free speech baby on the tube. Someone asks, maybe on a personal desktop, but on the tube, Nicholas B 77, wow, that takes a little balls. Then he, Nicholas B 77 writes, I remember there was a guy on a plane who was actually looking at CP on his laptop on the flight. Yeah, he didn't fare so well either. Nicholas B 77 writes, man arrested first CP on the tube sending the, the tweet out, Nicholas B 77 writes, yeah, oh, somebody writes, I, how are people so addicted? They can't go a few hours about looking at somebody, illegal, somebody writes, I know, I know my porn habits are on great, but damn, Nicholas B 77 writes, yeah, can you imagine? But it's probably more common than we like to pretend. I mean, all kinds of people get addicted to porn. Somebody writes, but it'll ruin your life, porn though. Nicholas B 77. And although they expect us not to look at it, there's no help if we wanted it. And on and on, it goes from there. Then there's one, Nicholas B 77 with a sauntering to the bathroom, what he allegedly did there. I mean, this is like deeply disturbing

57:53stuff. You can see why Wheel of Fortune America's, you know, family program turf this guy. It doesn't look like he's in here by accident. If he is Nicholas B 77, he's actively participating and writing things about hot young girls, this is very, very dark. So I genuinely hope it's not true. I don't know why the police didn't arrest him. If it is true, one of the messages that's on the computer screen talks about an all you can eat boy, fey. This is all very, very dark. And it is a reminder, if this is true about him, that these child predators are looking everywhere, everywhere. You can't assume that just because somebody's a nice guy or associated with a product you like, etc. That they're squeaky clean. And this is just a good reminder for parents, do not leave your minor child alone with any stranger ever, ever. I mean, you have to be extremely vigilant as a parent.

59:01And I know it's dark, but you know, this is why some parents don't let their kids go on sleepovers because they don't know who's going to be there. We were never quite that radical. We get to know our kids, friends, parents, and there's you develop a level of trust, but I understand the instinct. Very, very scary. Okay, moving on. I have a word to say about the US Open. First of all, congratulations to Blake Shelton in an epic mass, mass match against Carlos Alcaraz last night, went five hours. It ended at 3.33 in the morning. People who were there were asking me at a friend who said, I'm waiting for them to start serving breakfast. The US Open so far has been really entertaining, have to say. And that match between Tiafo and the young guy, Mikkelsen, who is only 22 years old, Mikkelsen, who was unranked in Tiafo, I think is number nine in the world, who was beating Tiafo. Tiafo is down, I think, 2-0. It was crazy. This relative no name,

1:00:07unranked at 22 years old, comes on the scene and was beating him. And it was a match to the finish. I mean, five sets could have gone either way. And in the moment when Tiafo did win, the poor kid, they had their, you know, sort of greeting at the net. And he broke down in tears. 22 is young, you know, in the grand scheme. And I'm sure the emotions were overwhelming. And the two of them shared an emotional hug at center court that was really moving. And I've got to hand it to the announcers. The one guy said, sports. You know, let's watch. And it's a big brother moment, Mikkelsen in tears and frances his arms.

1:01:24Sports, man. I love that sports, man. It was such a great moment, such a feel-good moment. You know, like Tiafo, who has a great backstory of his own, he manages to pull it out and he's about to celebrate. And then he remembers he should go to the center court and have a moment with his competitor. And clearly that competitor needed him. He looked up to Tiafo. We were told by the sports reporters. And of course he did. I mean, Tiafo is like very well known, he's been in the sport in a long time. And clearly was overcome with emotion. Tennis is like my whole family place tennis. I don't play tennis, but it really is. It's too gladiators going at it against each other. There's no other teammate to blame. There is no place to hide. It is just the two of you

1:02:25on that court, you know, win loser draw. And your fortunes rise and fall so quickly. You know, the emotional swings are huge. It builds so much character. This is one of the things I see in my own kids being out there fighting for it against all odds. And at times losing, you know, in sometimes in humiliating fashion, builds character, winning, trying to be a gentleman or, you know, a lady in the case, builds character. But that poor guy, I mean, he has nothing to hang his head over. This Michelson. He was, I think going to the University of Georgia to play tennis there and decided to try his hand at the pro circuit. And what a run it's been. It's been doing amazing. And almost beat Tiafoh to move on to the semis. And couldn't quite hold it together, which I thought was very sweet and an emotional moment that really moved me. So good for both of those guys. I'll be rooting for them both. Though, I don't think Tiaf is favorite to get into the final against

1:03:30Blake Shelton. Here's Ben Shelton, not Blake, Ben. Here's one other thing I wanted to mention. Naomi Osaka. All right. She and I have gone round and round. A couple of years ago, she chastised a reporter for having the nerve to ask her about the fact that she doesn't perform as well on clay. She had some meltdown on him like he was doing something inappropriate. And then she said she wasn't going to do press anymore. She doesn't want to do the press because she's sick and tired of being asked about things that aren't good for her, things that, you know, bring down the room. Well, that's sorry, but that's there there on behalf of us. The reporters are in the room to ask questions that their news organizations think the general public might have some interest in and why you don't perform as well on clay as you're going to the French open would be a relevant question. But unlike all the other players, she refused to engage. She had a meltdown that she said it was about her mental health and she shouldn't have to answer the questions. Every other player has mental health too. They have to worry about it. They have to manage it. It goes up. It goes down. They they're under tense circumstances. They get asked

1:04:33annoying questions. They do it. They do it because it's part of the price of admission. The access by the fans to the players generates interest and puts butts in the seats at the stadiums which generates ticket sales, which is what pays you the big prize money when you win. And when you win, you get endorsement deals and you become a multi-millionaire like Naomi Osaka has. And then you repay it by giving a few questions to what can be sometimes annoying questions. I'm sure few answers to those and you deal with your very pesky public. Instead, she through her agent called this one reporter for I think it was the Cincinnati inquirer, a bully, simply because he said, how do you balance the two things you want sort of privacy on these press conferences, but you work with the press and you use the press to build your brand. It was a very gentle question. She later through her agent called him a bully. This guy probably makes $60,000 a year.

1:05:36You can add two or three zeros to that for what Naomi Osaka has made. She plays for Japan, by the way, not us. So she now comes out. She hasn't made a good sport since then. Just last summer, we played video of her. She pulled out of the French Open after she refused to do those interviews. She wanted us to know she has anxiety and depression. I mean, welcome to the club. A lot of people do and they still do their jobs. Then the following June, she skipped out on Wimbledon. Okay, but let's last flash forward to last August of 2025, where she was at the National Bank Open in Montreal. She was fighting against a gal from Canada, Victoria Emboco. Victoria beat her. It was an upset and it was surprising. This gal looked up to Naomi and Naomi didn't congratulate her after the losing match. Remember this?

1:06:41Thanks, I guess. I don't really want to take up too much time. So I'll just say thank you to everyone. Thank you to my team. Thank you to the ballkids. Thank you to the organizers and all the volunteers. I hope you guys had a good night. Not a word about her opponent. Not a congratulatory word. Nothing. Nothing. Even Coco Gough's former coach Brad Gilbert acknowledged it and laid into her saying, look, she may suffer with social anxiety, but gosh, congratulate your opponent, especially one that looked up to you. So this is not somebody who's handled her time in the spotlight well. I believe if memory serves, she later came out and said, oh, sorry, I forgot to thank her. So now we get to this year's open. Her thing this year is to walk out onto the tennis court. And by the way, notwithstanding how she

1:07:42really doesn't want to deal with the press during the Black Lives Matter protest of 2020. Oh, she was all about BLM. She made that very clear on the tennis court and off. So she's fine using the media for that messaging. But when we have to talk about why she's not a great clay player, it's intrusive and bullying. So now we get to this year's US Open and she's had a comeback after having a child. Good for her. A plot it, respect it. And she's decided that she is an Anna Winter pro D. Shay. Look at her walking out and the round one entrance, wearing who decides war. That's the name of the designer in this match here. Watch this is on August 31st, South 30. Got her sour punch with what looks like a bride of Frankenstein wedding dress. She looks like someone ran over her cat. But she's in what she considers to be high fashion.

1:08:51It's a tennis game, madam. New York. New York is one she chose. She's now on the middle of the court, bouncing holding her racket. The other player looks like an athlete having to deal with this nonsense. Exhibitionism. I thought we struggled with social anxiety. I thought we couldn't deal with cameras or attention. Because of this woman, they had to create some special like anxiety room at all the grand slams where the tournament players could go and like be along with their along with their shrinks. This is okay, but now we're going to be a fashionista. All right, now suddenly we're Linda, Linda Evangelista. Naomi Campbell. I don't know. Then here she is. Look at this round two, three and four. And she did it again on all of them, South 37.

1:09:57Oh, so. Each one is more ridiculous than you. Well, and guess what happened? She lost. Because eventually she came up against the world's number two player who was focused on tennis instead of herself. And she was beaten roundly. It was a decisive victory. And she's now out of the US open. So I am just curious about whether we are now at a place where we're allowed to comment on Naomi Osaka again. Is she courting the press again? Because when she said she wasn't, she was on four magazine covers. And when some of us remarked on it, she snapped back saying, I did those before, before I spoke out against media coverage.

1:11:01But I sense that she wants attention again. So I'm willing to give it to her. And I want her to know that I think just based on what I've seen from other pro tennis players. The best thing to do when performing at a Grand Slam tournament is to focus on the tennis, to dress like a professional tennis player and to focus on one's game because you were a disaster in that last match that you lost. You looked like an amateur, especially in that first set. And it was no surprise to any of us watching that you failed to make it. You failed to advance. So goodbye, Naomi. Good luck to you. I really hope you're working out your issues and that you've moved beyond the petty behavior we saw from you last year and the year before that and the one before that. One before that. Anyway, go team America. That's what I'm rooting for. We do still have some players out there and it's going to be fun to watch the remaining matches. Okay. We got to bring in Frank Turek. We're going to

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1:13:10with Quo. Try Quo for free. Plus get 20% off of your first six months when you go to Quo.com slash mk. That's q-u-o.com slash mk. We've all heard those radio ads about owing money to the IRS. They try to scare you and push you into calling out a fear. But tax relief advocates takes a different approach. If you owe the IRS 5,000, 50,000 or even 500,000, TRA has real solutions to fix your tax problem. Don't lose hope. TRA can often reduce or completely eliminate what you owe. They're focused on taxes and helping people and businesses resolve IRS problems. They have more than a thousand five star Google reviews and an A plus rating from the better business bureau. You no longer have to fear the IRS. Generous relief programs exist right now that can give you a clean slate. So act today. Go to TRA.com. That's TRA.com or call 875-6845. Okay, again, that's 800-575-6845.

1:14:18Tax relief advocates. Real solutions for real people. I now have my very own channel on Sirius XM. It's called the Megan Kelly channel and it is where you will hear the truth unfiltered with no agenda and no apologies. Along with the Megan Kelly show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, Lake Lauren, Morgan Callahan, Emily Doshinsky, Jesse Kelly, real clear politics and many more. It's bold no BS news. Only on the Megan Kelly channel, Sirius XM 111 and on the Sirius XM app. Joining me now, a close friend and faith mentor of Charlie Kirk. Frank Turek is a Christian author and the president of crossexamined.org. He was with Charlie on the horrific day of his assassination in Utah one year ago tomorrow and came on this program later to talk about his experience. I'm honored to say since then he and I have become friends too. He's back today to

1:15:22honor Charlie's legacy and talk about his new book, which is called The War on Reality. Recovering truth in a world that celebrates lies and it's out this week. Frank, great to see you. Welcome back to the show. Megan, it's always great seeing you and being back to talk about a tough issue. It's been a long year on one hand and then on the other hand, I look at it and I go, I can't believe it's been a year. I don't know. You kind of feel the same way I think. Don't you? It's crazy. Yeah, but very much, very much so. But unlike you, I wasn't there. I wasn't at Utah Valley University and I've been thinking about that so much for you. Frank and for others too, Mikey and others who are on site. The trauma was at least twofold because you lost Charlie. I guess threefold. You saw Charlie die and you yourself were exposed to a very dangerous, traumatic situation. So how have you wrestled with that over these past 12 months?

1:16:22Well, the first person I think up when I wake up in the morning is Charlie and the last person I think about before I go to bed is Charlie. And I'm thinking about Charlie a lot during the day as you can imagine, Megan. And people call this PTSD, but I think that's a misnomer. There's no disorder. I mean, that's normal. That's who I ought to be thinking about because I've never seen anything like that, Megan. I've never seen any but I was in the Navy and I never saw anybody shot. But to see your friend murdered right in front of you and to see the fact that he was gone the second the bullet hit him. I mean, when we had him in the car, Megan, he wasn't looking at me. He was looking right past me into eternity. His eyes were fixed. That's the only good news we got that day that he didn't suffer at all. But I think the way around it, I've had a lot of people say they're praying for me and praying for everybody involved. I think that has helped. But the second thing I think that's really important, there's a passage at the Apostle Paul who by the way was beaten and whipped so many times himself and experienced hardships and shipwrecks and everything

1:17:26trying to sort of do what Charlie was doing, going out and telling people about the truth of Christianity, the truth that Jesus rose in the dead and by trusting in him you can be forgiven and given his righteousness. The Apostle Paul says in his second letter to the Corinthians that God comforts us so we can comfort other people. And whenever I start feeling bad, I just think of Erica and I try and do whatever I can to help Erica because this has been such a brutal year for her, not just personally, obviously the tragedy, but there's been so much slander thrown about her that none of it is true. She is such an amazing woman, Megan, that I text her the other day and I said to her, I said, Erica, if the roles were reversed, if you were the one who had been murdered, I don't really think Charlie would have done as well over the first year as you have, because she has never lashed out. She's always been full of grace and truth. She's always been

1:18:28concerned about her family and concerned about the Lord and concerned about keeping TPUSA on Charlie's legacy track that he had it on. She hasn't been distracted and I think she really has the Holy Spirit. She is directed by God and she's yielded to that. But she's taken so much abuse, Frank, and it's been, you know, part of it, I mean, I think a large part of it is people are frustrated. She's not Charlie. You know, there's like an anger outside of whatever we've got the conspiracy theories and all that. I really have no time for them. I think it's despicable. But there's been like a little cottage industry that's popped up of detractors of Erichas. Yes. And my own take on it is there's a frustration. She's not Charlie. She stepped into Charlie's role. She did that to save his organization that he built from the time

1:19:28he was 19. She felt she had to do it. I think there was a strong case that she was right. But there's, you know, whoever took over that role was going to suffer from not being Charlie. And the fact that it's Erica who's this beautiful, you know, faith-based woman who, you know, people have strong opinions about. She's got strong thoughts. She's obviously political, which also makes her a target. It has just brought out this visceral reaction in some. And in my own reaction to it has been twofold. Number one, I desperately want Erica to not be the CEO of Turning Point just because I just want to savor from this. It's not that she hasn't done a great job. It's just I just want to say like if I feel like if she would just stop that a lot of this would go away. And I would like to see her spared it. And you can't stop people on the internet from saying what they're going to say. But my second thought on it, Frank, is that with every attack that's launched on her, she becomes a greater superhero. Because she, she doesn't bow to it. You know, she, she's kept going. She just with her head held high,

1:20:28mothering her children, trying to run the organization, doing what she can at the public events they have. And with every step forward, she develops another superhero muscle because she hasn't fallen in the face of these attacks. Can I read something that she wrote in the new book? She wrote the forward to it. And I just want to read three sentences that when I read these, I went, this woman is exceptional. Here's what, here's what she said. This is right in the middle. And by the way, you don't need to buy the book to read the forward. If you just go to Amazon, look for the war on reality and click on editorial comments, we put the whole forward on that website. Here's what she says. Since September 10th, 2025, I have been faced with my own new reality. One that I still wrestle with is I attempt to grasp its earthly permanence quite honestly. It'll probably be like that for the rest of my life. Yet what I've realized is that redefining my

1:21:31reality isn't what gives me peace, surrendering to it does. Surrendering to it does. She just summed up the entire book, 400 page book. She sums it up in one sentence. I'm like, we didn't even need to write the book. I Erica came along and wrote the forward. This could have been a tweet. That's right. That's right, Megan. I mean, she's so insightful. There's many other insights right there in that two and a half page forward that I said, this woman understands she's moving forward. You know, there's a philosopher by name, a Peter Kraft, who just a number of years ago wrote a book on suffering. And I'm paraphrasing what he said in here. But this is what his insight was about suffering, taken it from the totality of scripture. He said that this life is not about fulfillment. It's not about happiness. It's not about security. He said the purpose of this life is training.

1:22:37He said, this world makes a lousy home, but it makes a wonderful gymnasium. And I went, wow, because as you just pointed out, she becomes more and more of a superhero, the more difficulty that she goes through. Excripturally, this is when you go through difficulty, you become more and more like Jesus. If you choose to be, we can form to the image of his son. That's from Romans, chapter eight, Paul's letter to the Romans. And that's what's happening. In fact, you know how she ends this, she ends this whole forward in here, Megan, with this phrase. She says, I'm just going to read the last couple sentences, although my husband is now absent from this world, but present with the Lord he loved, he lived his life in such an inspiring way, knowing that his faith rested on the confidence that reality belonged to no one and nothing else but God. And I pray, you can find freedom in that as well. Count it all joy, Erika Kirk. Count it all joy.

1:23:39She's quoting from the Apostle James, who by the way, himself was martyred for his faith in Jesus, because in the first chapter of his book that he wrote, he says, count it all joy when you fall into various trials because the testing of your faith produces patience. In other words, she's saying that going through all this suffering, I'm going to count it joy because I know it's going to make me better and more like Jesus in the long term. Yes, I believe she means that because she's shown a very high ability to withstand bullying. Yes. You know, I mean, she has. And I don't, it's not exactly what she signed up for. You know, she wanted to marry Charlie. She loved Charlie. She wanted to be a mom. She wanted to be a good wife. She was both of those things and she was thrust in the national spotlight, not by her own desire. You know, that's the thing. People treat her like she was some sort of fame seeker. She wasn't, she wasn't at all. This happened to her and she's been

1:24:43managing it as best as she can with the support of a lot of people who love her. Megan, the, the I'm going to say a lot of people don't realize that Erika was a CEO of two companies before she ever met Charlie. I mean, she had her own clothing line. I think she still does. She had her own Bible 365 business, which is really a ministry, not a business, but she was the head of it to read through the Bible in a year. Charlie did not marry her just for her beauty. I mean, she is. Oh, yeah, no, he knew what he had. She is a Charlie was exceptional. He married an exceptional woman. I mean, and he knew he knew he knew even when he was alive and you know, thinking that they would grow old together, that he had a wife who, who could represent his organization as he would want God forbid anything ever happened to him. He understood the Erika had those gifts even though that they were being used in different ways. But he, I want to get back to you because she writes

1:25:47in the book something that wasn't surprising in the foreword about you, that the following, quote, I'll never forget the moment several years ago. This is January 2020. She's referring to. When Charlie told me he had reached out to Frank Turek via email. He was so excited, but realistic in his expectations, quote, I'm not sure if he'll respond, but it's worth a try. I hugged him and said, I'm so glad you did. If it's God, if it's God's will, he'll respond. If not, at least you tried sure enough, Frank responded and our friendship grew from there. He was so thrilled to have you in his life, Frank, but unlike most of us, unlike 99% of the world, Charlie reached out to the people he admired and tried to have relationships with them. And you didn't know him from Adam in the beginning, but you two would become like family. Yeah, he was like a son to me. I was twice his age, Megan, and he wanted me to mentor him and crit what we call Christian apologetics, evidence for the faith that God exists, that Jesus rose from the dead, that the Bible is telling the truth.

1:26:50And you know, it can be hard to mentor someone smarter than you, but not with Charlie, because the only thing that exceeded his intellect was his humility. And I can say, honestly, Megan, I learned more from him than he learned from me. And by the way, you were one of the mentors in his life too. He had so many mentors. In fact, I may have mentioned this to you before, but your audience may not have heard this probably a couple of months before he was murdered. We went on one of our walks and he said to me, because we'd walk at night after he put the kids down and he said to me, Hey, I got a, we got to go quickly because I got to get back. I got to get to bed because I'm on Megan's show tomorrow. And I looked at him and I said, Charlie, if there's any person in the world, I would rather not to debate on a legal issue. It's Megan Kelly. And he looked at me and he said, totally. So he relied on you, Megan. He really did. Because you, as I've told you before, I'm not just saying this, you are the clearest legal mind on the internet. Like when I want to know,

1:27:56like, you know, the Clancy thing or the, or the, even the Tyler Robinson thing, like, what's, what procedure is going on? What's happening? I tune into you because I, you just cut right through it and you get right to the point. That's a great gift to you. Frank, you're, you're so nice to compliment me. You are the one who I've been turning to this year. As I, as I delve into for the first time, Christian apologetics, as I've been looking for something to hold on to in the wake of Charlie's death as I deal. I'm past it now, but as I was dealing with what I felt was anger toward God. And I remember asking Erica about if whether she was angry, whether she felt angry with God after Charlie's death. And the hair response was the enemy with love for me to be angry. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's so good. And she, but she's, she was even then able to master her emotion, you know, and accept

1:28:57this is real. This is my reality. And how I respond is up to me, which was actually a very strong and insightful way to deal with it. And it's kind of one of the themes of your book. Like, the reality is reality. There's no your reality. There's no my reality. There's only reality. And the rest of us are going to have to deal with that. Although there is a war on it. Yes. And reality is undefeated. I mean, you can deny reality. You can fight against it. But ultimately reality is going to win. And so what we try and do in the book. And by the way, this book was being written nine months before Charlie was murdered. It was really having nothing to do with Charlie. But when he was murdered, Megan, both my my co-author and Iphenics Hayes was a brilliant writer, by the way, very witty. She said, and I said, we both agreed. This has book has to be dedicated to Charlie because Charlie was fighting for reality while many people were fighting against reality. So the book is dedicated to him. The first chapter is called Murder on Campus. It tells what happened

1:30:00up to that day because Charlie and I were with one another for the three days prior to the to the murder. What happened that day? And then what has happened since. And then we get into so many other issues related to the denial of reality, whether it's that men can have babies or there are an infinite number of genders or that there is no truth that just when people say that, Megan, I always say is that true? Is it true? There's no truth. I mean, it's crazy. I love that. I mean, there's it's how you deal with the eight. Yes. Yes. It's so self-contradictory. The war on reality is self-contradictory. I mean, some of these people are saying that, you know, reason is a tool of oppression as they try and reason us to that conclusion. You know, Megan, it's bizarre and it's gone completely away from the Bible and completely away from Martin Luther King who said, let's not judge people on the color of their skin, but the content of their character. Now we're judging people according to cultural Marxism based on what particular identity groups they're in. You know, if you're a white, heterosexual, Christian male who's the citizen of the

1:31:03United States, you're automatically considered an oppressor. And guess what, Charlie Kirk had all of those qualities. That's why. Yes. Yes. Sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, I was going to say it's one of the reasons why we're seeing these just demonic people out there, even this week celebrating the one-year mark of his assassination, a father, a husband, a business leader celebrating it still, even for the year to reflect and understand and do a little switching on the internet to figure out who was. They don't care. He already started with an L because of those things you just lost. Yes. Yes. And by contrast, if you're on the other side, if you're a person of color, if you're LGBTQ, if you're a non-citizen, you're automatically considered, and bonus points, by the way, if you're an illegal immigrant, you're automatically considered oppressed. So you should be heard. And the so-called oppressor group should not be heard. And it got to the point where it seems like Tyler Robinson was so radicalized that he thought

1:32:04that Charlie was a fascist that needed to be murdered because Megan, we all know a typical fascist tactic as Mussolini taught us was hand your opponent the microphone and let him make his case why you quietly listen and then you have a discussion. Note, the guy that shot him is a fascist. It's not Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk was a Christian man who wanted to bring the truth to people and he was willing to put himself in harm's way to do so. Thankfully, all they were able to do is change his address. The rest of us have to move on and keep moving forward. And that's why good logical thinking that you provide here on this program is so important because in the book, we talk about the ill logic of what so many on the left are engaged in. I mean, from self-contradictory statements like there is no truth to saying that if you have certain qualities, you're an oppressor and if not,

1:33:05you're oppressed and claiming that there is no God, but then they claim they have rights. Well, there are no rights if there is no God. Everything's just a matter of opinion. It's just your opinion against somebody else's opinion. And so what we're trying to... Well, that's what I was going to ask you. How much of this, what we're seeing this war on reality, is the result of people pushing faith out of their lives, religion out of the public square, references to God, you must be snuffed out, etc. How much is rooted in that? I think a lot of it is because the Apostle Paul wrote, and again, his letter to the Romans chapter one, that when you suppress the truth long enough, God will give you over to a depraved mind to the point where you're not only doing evil yourself, you're cheering on other people who are doing evil. Megan, what would we have three weeks ago? The governor of Massachusetts signed the bill where you could actually execute your child up to the moment of birth. And they're applauding this. They're applauding it. And everybody knows OB-GYNs, all doctors know that if there's

1:34:07a problem in the third trimester of pregnancy, if you have to take the baby, you don't have to kill the baby, you can do a C-section, save the baby, and then give health care to the mother. There is never a reason in the third trimester to have a baby die in order to save a mother. And yet, that's what the law was that they passed. It's a sacrament to them. In fact, think about it this way. The Lord said in John chapter six, this is my body. He's talking about the Eucharist. That is the same terminology the proportion side uses. This is my body. They're actually, they're actually mocking it like it's a sacrament to them. I mean, this, when you suppress your conscience, when you suppress the truth long enough, you're given over to a depraved mind because God pulls back. He says, I know you don't want me, so I'm going to pull back. And then you have

1:35:10so much of these evil acts that have been committed, whether it's the murder of Charlie or the murder at the murders of the kids at the Annunciation School in Minneapolis or I mean, or the clancy murders. I mean, yes, they're hearing voices, Megan. This is demonic activity. I'm sorry, it just is. It's demonic activity. That's what I wanted to talk about. Can you please expand on this? Yes. Jesus and the Apostles called Satan a murderer, liar, accuser, and slanderer who seeks to steal, kill, and destroy. Well, let's just take Charlie situation. We had a murder one year ago. What have we had since then? We've had lies, accusations, and slander seeking to steal, kill, and destroy. And people don't believe in the demonic. I'm going, how could it be more obvious? This is exactly what's going on. They're running down a widow, a widow who has two fatherless children now, and they don't have facts. All they have is speculation. They don't have evidence. I mean, look, anything's possible, Megan. Charlie could have been killed by an alien.

1:36:14That's possible. But do we have any evidence for that? No. And you of all people know this better than anyone. When you go to a courtroom, you better have evidence, not just speculation. And that's all we've had. That's slanderer. That is what I have felt is the antidote to all of Frank, as you know, you and I've talked about it privately and I've talked about it with my audience. I really feel the antidote to those kinds of messages are just is just to stick within provable facts. And in this case, that would be admissible into evidence. That's the playing field that we are on. Yeah. You know, this is a court case that we're dealing with here. And if you just follow those simple rules, you will get to the right result. You will. You will not be misled. You will not run down roads that you should not be taken down. And I spend no time chasing them because I just think it's almost it's worse for the audience to have all of that entertained at all. Just we're going to stick with facts. And you will not be misled on this program. Can I? Can I? I feel like I can live up to it. Can I ask you a legal question, Megan, on this?

1:37:17Yeah. Yeah. In my experience from the people that I know in this field, they will say that I witness is always agree on the major event, but they disagree on details. You know, I saw the guy shoot him, but was it an orange jacket? Oh, I thought it was a red jacket, right? So they they always agree on the central fact, but they disagree on the details. Yet I see some of the conspiracy theorists saying that inconsistencies between the eyewitnesses on details somehow proves they're in collusion. I think it's the opposite. What's your view? Here's my view. You and I would do better to stare at our navels and just look at them for the next hour than to have that conversation. Like this is pointless. You're playing the wrong game. I I mean, I talked to everybody at Turning Point about this from Erica Undown. I just don't think it serves anybody to start picking little pieces of what these people think happened to Charlie up and combating it. I really don't. Frank conspiracy theorist or people who buy

1:38:20into conspiracy, whatever. I don't mean to sound pejorative about, you know, if that the piece of free country, you can believe it, you want to believe, but they they will not be disabused of their beliefs. They would not buy facts, not buy eyewitness testimony, not buy a court verdict, not buy any of it. So truly, it is pointless to spend time over that target. Our target should be reality. It should be what is real, not what is not real. It should be what is real. What do we know? Starting with God and coming right down to the evidence in this case, which is overwhelming against Tyler Robinson. And honest to my own point of view is while I don't support that these narratives, obviously, Eric had nothing to do with Charlie's murder. It's despicable to say otherwise. It's the internet. Like, it's going to do what it's going to do. It's it's done it in so many different cases. Right now they're blaming Patrick Clancy instead of Lindsay. It's not controllable. And the more time we spend trying to chase down that theory, this the less time we spend in what you want us to spend on, which is reality. Spend time there.

1:39:25That's what's uplifting. That's what's God like. That's what's infusing with positivity in your life as opposed to this dark force, which can take you just down so many rabbit holes or nothing good. We'll come to you. Yeah. Well said. And that's what our legal system is designed to do as well. You have to bring the facts. I'm going to write the epilogue here, but I'm going to write that I'll write the epilogue on the online version. Frank, I love talking to you. I wish we had longer time. I want everybody to buy the book. It's called The War on Reality. And while you're at it, buy, listen to and read whatever Frank Turek puts out if you want to enhance your life and your wellness. Thank you so much for everything you've done for all of us. Megan, one of the benefits of an awful event was me getting to know you. So thank you for your friendship. Thank you for having me on. It's one of the positives that up a very awful event. I appreciate knowing you and appreciate talking with you. Thank you. I feel the same. I feel the same. Again, it's Frank Turek.

1:40:29The book is The War on Reality. It's available now. You can get it. Turek Charlie would love for you to read it. We're back tomorrow with more as we continue to honor Charlie Kirk. We'll see you then. Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show, No BS, No Agenda, and No Fear. Today's episode was brought to you by Super Sure.