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In this episode Anik Malcolm speaks with artist Alex Schaefer, best known for his incendiary series of bank paintings, where branches of major financial institutions erupt in flame. Together they explore the alchemy of protest and paint, the symbolism of banks on fire, and how art can convey the economic tyranny of our time. Alex Schaefer: https://paintwithalex.com | Anik Malcolm https://anikmalcolm.com/ | Bitcoin Art Magazine https://bitcoinartmagazine.com
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of what it felt like when when those cops stopped me and then I had homeland
security come to my studio and then that turned into a huge story. I think they
realized that the more that they lean into trying to persecute me the the worst
that they're going to look you know and they look bad and so in. So that's kind
of in a way part of the artwork itself right is the whole the whole story
around it you know it's it's a promise it's an actual artwork yeah and then
it's the whole you know repercussions so to speak you know it's a question
like where did the legal limits lie what is making an example of someone what
you know what is protest all of this stuff yeah I mean it was a fascinating
thing I mean I didn't wasn't thinking about that about every single angle at
the time it was just like I was super into plain air painting for years in and
around that time where you know you take your art supplies out and you just
paint on the street and I was living downtown and I was used to painting on
the sidewalks and having spectators and that sort of thing and working in
and I just thought gosh this is such a perfect mix here this is the chocolate
and the peanut butter to make the Reese's peanut butter and it it just they bit
you know it was it was the whole point was to draw attention and and and just I
think an overarching thing with my paintings is just to get people instead instead
of the powers that be wanting us to be angry and blaming one another and
pointing across from each other we need to be pointing up at the problems right
that's what you know you're being made angry about something like cutting
snap benefits or whatever I mean I really think everything roots at the
degradation of our money I mean I would argue even racism crime like all this
stuff xenophobia is all roots at people are desperate and it's and they're
getting more desperate and if these problems didn't did not exist because of
the circumstances that we've been born into with this system that there would be
a lot more just peace you know peace between each other and peace between
nations and whatever I mean I can't remember who exactly it was that said it
but they said fiat currency was created to wage war you know like Lincoln and
the greenback it goes back to forever because you just you want an easy source of
money to be able to pay for for what you're doing
shit I don't hear anything hello I hear you okay yeah this is Keesa so
amazing to have you on thank you so much yeah I know I hopefully will join us
later he just had to go to an appointment that he couldn't get out of ups and it
looks like we've lost a Nick let me on it that's right let me see if I can
invite him back up he was having some tech problems earlier but we thought we
solved them in our test we did a test and there he is it always I'm not gonna
make him a co-host quite yet because sometimes that causes issues can you hear
me now yes we can wonderful I'm so glad I do apologize for that
little for that little recollection the matrix so we all back we're all set
yeah I'm Alex I'm really sorry I missed a little bit of what you said before
beforehand but I'm not gonna ask you guys right right because everyone else did
catch it yeah yeah we're just talking about just this overarching belief that
that I have that you know regarding my paintings the the point of them is to
get people to direct their fury not at one another and across across the
spectrum but up at the root of the problem right yeah you know and I would argue
that a lot yeah absolutely we have you know like like I was saying racism
xenophobia depression drug abuse endless wars that they really they are
rooted in our monetary system there would be less racism absolutely
it would be pissed off it absolutely it's the it's the other citizens you know it's
the desperation it just like so it affects everything it affects the how
the advertising world works it affects how the the the how culture works and
it's so deeply rooted in everything literally every aspect of the society we
take for granted and it's not on effects are down to the you know these
things you're mentioning you know so the Bitcoin fixes this thing is no you
know it's not just a catchphrase because it is so fundamental
we have we have over generations just assumed as normal you know and I see I
personally see I see humanity as like we don't even know really what true
humanity is because we have endured such multi-generational systemic like
intentional abuse via the system that we actually have no idea we're all
suffering from PTSD to some extent or another right yeah that we don't even
see anymore you know so yeah I you know fully support everything that you
that you portray in your work I think it's amazing and it's also really
interesting to see the response you get to it and I'm interested as well to
ask like and this is something I know I was asking before as well and it's a
very interesting question is the response you get in general public because you
do do a lot of plain air painting yeah and on the way that you've had run
ends with the law because of it uh interrogations and such like um what is how
do people how does you know Joe public respond to seeing you you're
fantasy version of the burning of the burning that's crazy the the last time I
went out a couple of weeks ago to do one on a street um pastors by were like
oh you know first they kind of go this is weird because here's a guy
painting on the street which in and of itself is unusual and then they stop and
they look and then they do a double take and turn around they're like hey whoa you
know the craziest talking about how you know I'm just sort of convinced that
that the banks are just taking a a just completely
ignore means um strategy at this point because anything they do to lean in
and persecute me just makes them look worse the security guards standing in
front of the Bank of America and I'm across the street for like two or three
hours doing a painting right when I was done with what I was gonna do on
location because I do you know I finish them up at I set my ease a lot kind of
right on this almost on the street as close to the edge of the sidewalk and I
kind of get a shot where I can see the see the building and you can see my
painting on the easy uh-huh the security guard gives me a thumbs up the
security. Oh my gosh. I hate banks of America too. Wow that's insane. Well that's
quite a quite an interesting insight right I mean that says quite a lot in
itself. But really on there I know for a fact that there was panic with the
likes the uh friend of mine I've told the story before about you know we got
new years here a friend of mine at a gallery that I used to show at up in L.A.
called the Haya Gallery um he's from Ohio and after New York the biggest
branch that JP Morgan has the biggest offices or headquarters whatever is
in Cleveland and a friend of his was in Ohio and he worked at the Chase in
Cleveland you know it's like a VP okay and so the guy who runs the gallery goes
oh you got to meet the shaper he he does these like burning Chase banks and the
guy his eyes popped out of his head and he's like oh my gosh no way you have no
idea they sent like an email to the whole entire email list of the company
where the picture you and links and they're like if you see this person do not
approach them you know call the police you did not know you know what their
intentions are blah blah blah and I was like no wow they were they were full
panic that's insane well you've made you've made some waves if I was being
like a conspiracy theorist I would know that I after a certain point I got
used as a predictive policing model to train right
policing where they were like looking at my Google searches looking at where
my phone is and you try to use predictive policing algorithms or whatever to
say okay where's the next bank that he's gonna go because they see me
wow yeah of course yeah yeah looking up stuff oh it wouldn't be me driving by
and checking it out and then you know then I'm literally there and my location
in my phone and what have you and wow no evidence of that that's just like me
being no but it wouldn't happen you know they would be silly not to use
the opportunity right you know I mean it's not really that much of a stretch
instead of predicting where someone is going to try to rob a bank or whatever
just train it to focus on this person you know and try to guess the next
bank that I'm gonna do a painting at you know because it's like a target you
know right yeah yeah yeah and you say you haven't had any sense that that one
major event where you spend time in in jail you haven't had any serious
repercussions you haven't had any yeah any any run-ins with no and the
credit since then so they have been kind of instructed to leave you alone I
believe so yeah the I have a friend one not a friend but you know we're
acquainted with each other and he's another artist and he does like really
realistic paintings of like Ventura Boulevard they're super LA they're very
much tighter than my work booty beautiful light all that and he he would paint
like a Denny's or he would paint a McDonald's or what right he did a painting of
like a nationwide branch chain store whatever with the light and he painted
the sign perfectly and he had lawyers send him a cease and desist letter like
you're violating our what this is our trademark your prop right yeah yeah you
know you have to stop doing this and he was literally I don't know like a more
dot-child than I am I would have said fuck you you know yeah wow he'd stopped
painting the logos like yeah wow is it night with the sign and it's all
beautiful but it'll look like AI wrote Denny's you know we're it like it looks
so really letters or just you can tell what it is because of the colors and
the shapes and whatever but it doesn't actually name Denny's anymore and even
then yeah and he wasn't doing anything threatening he was yeah their logo
perfectly because yeah there are very strict laws about this I mean I know this
from the photography world that you cannot have certain buildings included in
your imagery you know without having paid for it they're very strict
enforcing this if you're in the location even in England and you are you
you know you are portraying recognizable buildings you know what I mean so
and not only that people are hanging in front of them wow that's not I can
I'm reminded of like during because the this whole thing because this was in
2011 right with the with the chalk joins because I was in Iceland at the
time because it kind of the whole thing kicked off in Iceland don't know to
what extent that's known but it was like in late 2008 October 2008 it started
with the the collapse in Iceland which treated this right and so like because
lots of people in Iceland had invested in this or they had got loans
basically there was a lot of anger and people took to the streets on mass which
you know given Iceland has not many people but it's still there was a lot of
people making a lot of noise and I was allegedly quite active in these things
and we were just all sorts of stuff now we were setting huge Christmas trees of
blaze I did a for sale sign which we hung on the on the parliament building and
all sorts of stuff but they were clearly under very strict instructions to
leave us the fuck alone for that very reason right because they would have just
got much more like you know it would have caused much more of a media world when
they had they not done so and we would have become martyrs kind of thing you know
I'm right and so but like do you ever get like people on the on the road kind of
showing disgust thought you do I have never had anyone when I'm painting on
the street be angry or nothing if anything they are standing around sharing
stories of how they've been screwed you know wow wow you're tapping into the
into the public sentiment really well yeah absolutely brilliant when I was
naive back in 2011 you know I literally there I thought there is no way that
this is going to last another three years or something like that I mean I just
never had any understanding of just how much they're going to bail out this
system you know and how things are going to get and how how interest rates are
just going to be stupidly low right and and yet here we are like all these
years later and every time I do one of these paintings and posted on Instagram
or Twitter or whatever X I I get tons of likes and hell yes and and can you do
this bank and can you paint this a lot of that I get oh you got a
yeah in the bank in Canada you got to do that you know but you're quite
brand loyal I see I mean I did the banks that are that are in in the states
mostly I mean I've actually done one that's like a European
but wow you're welcome to come over yeah see test the waters here that's what
the cops like here you know maybe the
huh but it's we sort HSBC they're there
you do an HSBC oh did you oh I got invited to London by Max
Kaiser and Stacey Herbert okay and I did a plain air
painting of an HSBC bank on fire that they actually have that one
so that's so that's oh wow really nice okay cool brilliant
Kaiser with radicalizing I started watching his show and like
it's right after the right after the you know right when the
the collapse began a friend of mine was like oh you got to listen to this
Kaiser report and I just got hooked on it and I started yeah I mean he was
doing his whole buy silver crash JP Morgan buy silver thing
and he was one of the first guys and talk about Bitcoin
so it was he definitely and he's so bombastic and hilarious yeah he
does not hold back he's like a lot of comedians that I've met where
stage they're just super animated and then off stage they don't say a word
they are just yeah complete you would not think that Max Kaiser given how much
of a of a like a carnival barker he is when he's on stage right on stage he is
just like you know stays here I had a I had a real nice meet when I met him in
Osalvo he did a real nice video together with me it was very complimentary
about my work and so I was very on advice he for then some reason blocked me
and I have to I have no idea why and so I have to figure out how to get
myself on block like at a public petition going on
essentially he was super he was super complimentary I didn't quite
understand yes but yeah all sort of like around that time like and during these
protests I was mentioning earlier on this must have been like early 2009 right
the very beginning of 2009 Christmas tree is burning in the background and
I remember thinking to myself like where are the hackers now man now they would
be so effective you know and here we are all these years later so I'm sure
on us yeah that was happening Alex I'm sure you get asked
plentifully about the burning banks but you also have a wide array of other
work very actually I'm going to throw in something it was really nice
seeing when in Las Vegas seeing your your work are close because it does so
it it appears so meticulous you're talking about the this friend of yours
with with Wendy's and so on yeah does much more polished work and like from
the screen versions I had seen of your work they had appeared they appeared to
me so very meticulous and so like hyper realistic almost right and then to see
them in in real life you see this this palette nice style that you have this
plain air very quick approach to it and it's astonishing actually how to see how
how how much yeah how much meticulous illusion you create with this with your with your style
I was very impressed with that and I would like to know like you have a you know you are
clearly someone who has been an artist or a very long time and I would like you to tell
us a little bit about your early beginnings and how you kind of slid into the becoming a painter
full-time oh yeah I mean I take away back yeah I have always been just a huge fan of
the French Impressionists the London School the Bay Area figurative painters
um I love painterly painting right and I always make a painting with the intention that you know
this this might hang up next to a sizz on one day or or whatever I want to just stand up to
the artist that I really admire um and I feel fortunate that I had been I have been a painter
um so long before the the whole Bitcoin thing took off and fortunate to to to connected with
that group and at such an amazing collector base um because um you know I it really it's set in
in my mind I feel like I was a mature artist by the time that it happened as opposed to you know
a young artist that has different intentions you know sorry by the time that which part
happened by the time that that that I kind of took off and became a cause celeb uh and right
and and and and then became collected within the Bitcoin community right um but you have a you have
a professional art history preceding that though yeah yeah you have a graduated art school in
Pasadena in 92 I was an illustration major um I graduated from school I started doing freelance
illustrations for you know mother earth news LA reader um hustler um wow really yeah all kinds
of different magazines I was I was actually just thinking yeah I do like your life work as well
it's super nice you know yeah you'll see more formwork yeah again and part of my practice
and something I love to do um and I I did a children's book even uh over oh and yeah
hardcore brace and company called the wizard um wow you know written by Bill Martin Jr and um
and and then I got absorbed into the video game industry like in 1993
and okay uh that was something that nobody saw coming you know when you were going to art school
you were either going to be a freelance illustrator at least where I went you were going to be
freelance illustrator or you were going to work for Disney right oh really uh huh so it was
either Annem being or freelance illustration wow and the uh the department chair at the time he
was kind of aging out and he wasn't hip to what was really going on and just did not foresee
video games becoming so huge and such a lot of artists you know yeah it was like
Disney and animation was where the artists were getting employed at the time right started making
Sega Genesis and super NES games like way back oh really oh wow and when I graduated we had
no photoshop experience no digital art experience I learned everything on the job
you know I worked at Disney originally and um and because it was so far as evolving right you know
that's evolving it was like on the job training you know here's this per right paint like we
made video games on deep paint with uh wow texture map tiles that were literally 16 by 16 pixels
like that tiny and you're like oh I got to make wood grain oh I have to make it look like
stone wow looks like grass or whatever oh wow and um and so I worked at Disney for about five
years and then I worked about five years at uh for insomniac games um and we did this big hit game
called spiral the dragon and um right I read about yeah and that was like uh you know that that
was a crossover success because it was just popular with boys and girls as far as the animation
and kind of the cute factor uh and uh what sorry what you was this this was like 95 90s okay
and uh and then I stuck around at insomniac games for spiral the dragon one spiral two and spiral
three and uh they were okay all the way successes and uh I was making a lot of money but I always
continued to paint you know and like that would be something that that I would say to to an artist
out there like don't quit your day job you could do both you know right yeah yeah yeah and I really
experimented a lot when I was when I had all of my bases covered in my bills paid making video
games I did a lot of weird paintings that you might not even think oh that's a shaper you know
uh but even in art school I was always painterly and I was fortunate when I went to arts under to have
some real amazing expressionistic painting teachers uh like Richard Bunkle and Dan McCaw
Steve Houston etc and they they really were like you got a gift man like you you can
all you can see you can paint from life and um but like I said when I when I got video games I
I was doing like minimalist painting right uh and uh stuff that that I hated when I went to art
school you know right and did you enjoy it then when you were doing it professionally oh yeah yeah
right uh I mean and and because like I said bills were paid and then some with the house
I was making video games I was able to kind of get that out of my system and then finally come
around to you know what you're like you're a representational painter and you like planar
painting and figurative painting and you like old masters and the impressionists and that sort of
thing and um so I I transitioned out of video games I started uh substitute teaching at my
alma mater and then uh then I got a full-time teaching position at the art center college of
design and I I taught there for like 14 years and I was teaching foundation painting drawing digital
landscape um real nuts and bolts stuff and that's when I really got back into my roots
uh you know because all these young paint all these young art students that are in illustration
they love representation and they love to paint and depict things and what they see and
and what's in their imagination and you know representing the world and so I just I completely got
back into it I started um doing the work again that that that that was kind of I was meant to do
and uh and it was actually when I was at art center I was still teaching at art center when I
did that what those first burning bank paintings when was the first one it was like about it was in
June July of 2011 and then okay remember because it was like two months before the Occupy thing
broke out right okay I'm all straight and then there was Occupy LA and and um it was the zeitgeist
you know right no absolutely yeah just perfectly catching this wave and uh and I and I managed to
kind of tap into it right at the edge and then it just it crested with this protest and it was it
was amazing you know right so it was was it was with those works that you started making a break on
to the like gallery scene or were you there previously as well uh what I'll say about well there
was like I said there was a gallery that I have shown at I think that they just had their 20 year
anniversary and which is amazing for a gallery to ever last that long and so it but it was a
different kind of a gallery you know it was it wasn't like um like a blue chip art world type
a gallery and but still it the community there you know everybody was excited and there were shows
every month so it was encouraging to to work you could rent a little studio space there you could
you could paint there you could even sleep there I mean no one was gonna say and um and especially
you you're you're you had to pass yeah but the um you know one thing I'll tell young artists when it
comes to galleries um having kind of having uh the experience of being in you know a more
established gallery that sells sells my work you know just these auctions and doing stuff with
Bitcoin sales the galleries approach you like you are never going to get into a gallery by
cold calling them with a book of your slides or a thumb drive or artwork if you sit in in a gallery
that's like a big established gallery you will realize oh my god there's just a million like
people constantly coming in artists going oh you gotta look at my work and it just doesn't work
really that's a big gallery in LA after I started doing these burning bank paintings and they
approached me because I'm in depression and that's kind of that in my experience that's how it
happens it doesn't happen right right very very rare or you are friends or you went to art school
with someone who started a gallery and then you're like in the inner circle and right
you're actually a gallery and you're the artist and then they show you and they show a bunch of
their other people right yeah yeah like the little experience I have of the the more establishment
art world because like uh I would kind of recoil from it also with you know we did a little work
together um and I just always just like it I just found it disgusting and like but it was it
you're right it was always by invitation um it was never a case of like hey do you want to show me
it was always by invitation but um you I one of the few people I would say um not few but you know um
who can compare those two worlds uh the more you know the more established gallery scene to the
Bitcoin art world um how would you tell people those two compare what are the nine differences
would you say uh I would say that the the more mainstream galleries you know they're a lot more
um what's the word um conceptual you know they're they're definitely they're they're fed students
that are fed the conceptual art line uh we were my gosh you know and um and really to me it's a
battle between images and words um you know Mars you could argue Marcel Duchamp was the first guy
to kind of um start to deconstruct painting um and have it be about ideas and right and so
um whereas the Bitcoin art world I find is more uh traditional it's it's it's younger I think
yes I could be one of the oldest artists in uh in the Bitcoin art world it's quite
possibly you know I mean I'm an old head when you're 69 right yeah that correct yeah you're I was
born so I've done my research I read on Wikipedia actually yeah wow yeah that happened you know
yeah wow and fortunately people don't don't like edit it with a bunch of crazy shit or whatever
but the uh but you know like I said I feel fortunate that I did come at it at the age that I did
because I feel grounded in my own work I feel like in my own way I know what I like um because I
think young artists they want to prove something to themselves and and they they want to you know
we all have this kind of uh like a a board of critics in our mind and it's like Leonardo
difficulty in Raphael and right and uh Helmock Durer and whatever and um and we we we feel like
we can't do something unless we're able to do something else like oh I can't paint like Manet
if I first paint like you know Courbet or I can't paint like Richard Debencorn if I can't first
paint like like uh Leonardo you know yeah yeah go have to go through the entirety of art history
to be able to get to where we are now oh aren't free thing in in own work and I feel like I kind of
went through that outside of the scene you know you've got a lot of practice space yeah practice
space and able to kind of go oh I like this oh yeah yeah I admire this artist but I'm that is
not my my my nature you know so how's your how's your like popularity then because like
I was having a closer look at your Instagram today and it's like the numbers are quite astonishing
at times um is is that a relatively recent thing then would you say yes and it kind of comes in waves
you know um I mean the longest time it was just you know I had like seven thousand followers or
or you know five thousand I think I remember and I was like wow I got five thousand
hours and um but you know now that I'm at a certain point I have people making compilation
videos about me all the time now it is wow yeah yeah yeah you've become quite iconic
men and it's not something that I tried to do you know it really happened organically I might
have more followers if I paid for Instagram you know right um yeah and uh but it's uh it's just
it's happened and I'm and I'm just grateful you know right um and I was also fortunate to sort of
evolve with the internet you know yeah yeah yeah um and as I have taken leaps of faith to be like
you know what I'm gonna go and I'm gonna be I'm gonna leave video games and security of
the money I'm making and I'm gonna be a teacher um which I always recommend you know people to do
to make extra money or to make money as an artist there's nothing no shame in teaching I hate that
right those who can't teach line it is so yeah no no I mean you were some people were lucky enough
to have an inspirational teacher right and that changed their life oh yeah and it's such a wonderful
thing to be able to do that for someone yeah yeah truly yeah yeah and especially with painters
you learned by watching you know I mean that used to just be part and parcel to how you know
their work absolutely it's like you were a 12-year-old Italian kid and your parents uh let's
you go and live and work with uh Titiado or something like that and mix his colors and clean his
brushes right and then there was like maybe uh an 18-year-old guy that had been there for four
years and and they were stretching canvases or I was about to say you stretch in the canvases yes
so you learned on the on the job you know yeah which is one of the best ways right yeah absolutely
absolutely um do you so like I assume then to an extent that your transition or it's not really
a transition such but your development your progress into the into the Bitcoin art world uh was quite
like like a natural and somewhat gradual one then right like you've got absorbs by it more than
that you're like hey this is me yeah well and it was also I think that the uh that the the sentiment
behind the burning bank paintings was just perfectly in alignment with yeah exactly with the sentiment
uh high end midpoint you know and so it was absolutely perfect a perfect match that was a match made in
heaven actually I use you as an example there are a couple of them the painter friends I have Bitcoin
as who I only know from the internet but like they've become friends over time and uh and they're
very highly skilled classical painters just having a quick look neither of them listening right now
but they I hope they will ascend them this uh and they kind of like they have a hard time connecting
kind of like yeah but what do I I say to them come join in the Bitcoin art world man it's so you know
flourishing and so positive um and they'll be like yeah but I don't you know I don't want to paint
Bitcoin beans or whatever you know I don't know how to make Bitcoin art per se and it's like yeah
but look at this guy man it's not Bitcoin art but it's it encapsulates so much of what Bitcoin
is right and it doesn't need to necessarily be in your face this is uh Bitcoin art painting but it's
like um it encapsulates so much there is so much um you know adjacent stuff like even like apex
of stuff right if it didn't have the bees in it and if it didn't have the direct references to
to to to uh to Bitcoin hidden in the works it would be it would still be Bitcoin art you know
because it's this it's proof of work it's this glory it's this kind of like um uh you know
a long time preference like putting a lot of effort into things yeah um that is just so um
so so uh representative of uh as you know of what we do and what we uh stand for and so
yeah I'm just spending a long time saying basically that the Bitcoin art doesn't necessarily
need to be um yeah two-dimensional assets you know you know the collectors are going to mature
the artist and the mature and it's all happening together it really is a unique
I am in a unique place and um there's always going to be people that are excited and coming into it
and and bring that energy and they're going to evolve as painters as well you know right
um there's a famous uh Matisse quote that I'll I'll paraphrase but it's basically like
you know to the artist who doesn't know how to touch the earth from time to time they end up
going around and around in circles repeating themselves until they extinguish their curiosity
yeah right oh to to any painter I would say now and then do something you know that's just
outside of of your normal practice or you know limit your palette or expand your palette there's
so many things to do to keep yourself fascinated with it I mean right I've always in my mind
there there's two parts to to to art and there's the subject and there's the approach and um like
well don't you ever get tired of like painting Bernie Banks you're doing it over and over
and the thing is like the subject is the same but the approach is different you know sometimes
we're more I'm more realistic sometimes I'm more expressionistic now sometimes I'm experimenting
with with the with the surface and right and and so if you're you know sometimes the subject
part of like thinking of subject matter that and that can get repetitive you know yeah yeah yeah
if the way that you paint as opposed to what you paint if the way that you paint is what is always
the underlying um captivating thing not like oh I want to paint you know uh help me if it's how
you're doing it that that is going to keep you longer you know what I'm saying yeah yeah how does
how does um gum powder perform as a pigment oh I'm sure it's great talking about methods
I think who was his Ed Rusche and I get I get people like oh you like Ed Rusche because Ed Rusche
did a painting of the LA counting museum of artifact okay he did a painting of it on fire okay he
actually did do some some paintings with with gunpowder oh really like a conserva artist okay and did
he then did he then like put it put it to use he uh not that I know of but you probably could
hold a match up to it and the whole thing right like a cigarette paper or something right exactly
that would be kind of cool and a bit graphite sorry you could use it like graphite you know right yeah
I'm sure like a stick of gum powder yeah yeah wow be very cold smoke no exactly no smoke I'm kind of
like I'm thinking of fiat fire again to get him on the conversation and this this thing I was
talking about the other day of curating a uh a plane air uh what was it a plane air performance
artwork between the two of you yeah yeah that was but yeah no this is something that I find
personally super exciting about the bitcoin art space what you were talking about earlier on
it's the fact that it is still so relatively young right and there is actually so much subject
matter uh to be dealt with and there's so many different approaches uh to doing it like we have
fear fire doing his performances we have um uh axana doing her embroidery stuff you know it's
literally um we've got woodwork we've got you know everything and it's so um I'm just really
excited to see how this um how this progresses and how it grows and how it evolves with uh
with the space and with the growing adoption and with the growing you know worldwide presence
all bitcoin um and it has the everything about it it has all the moving parts of of an art scene
you know um yeah like take you know the L.A. art scene there are magazines there are galleries
there are artists there are collectors there are art schools and a scene to exist is
it needs all of that it needs right people writing about it it needs people making the work
it needs people to collect the work people that show the work and without even
podcasters yeah you're part of like you know what I would say writing about it except this is like
right an interview type of show yeah without realizing it all of those parts to a working art machine
have come into fruition without anybody saying or realizing you know that it needs that it needs
to be it's just it just happened right yeah it's spontaneously evolved yeah but I will say that
I remember there's a there's a guy up in L.A. his name is Matt Gleason and um he uh he started an
art art an art magazine in the 90s in L.A. out of like god there's no one writing on all the
magazines are like writing about New York artists and there's all this art happening in L.A. in
like 1989 1990 91 90 to to whenever I can't remember from the magazine shut down like maybe 2014
um and he what he did say you know if you do something and it doesn't happen in the blue chip
art world it's like a tree falling in the forest you know right uh uh that it's uh we still
aren't quote outside or art hmm into an extent you know absolutely absolutely and uh but don't let
that you know don't let that be uh something discouraging to to to any artists out there you know um
because you know to be honest I'm not a fan of a lot of the work that is in art forum and art news
and blue chip art galleries and I think no a lot of those galleries have just become a function
of the financial system absolutely I mean I can uh yeah sorry avoid taxes yeah because you know
and I have a friend who uh who uh got a job working at a art shipping and art handling company
for blue chip art and so he would work with museums and and individuals with million dollar
collections and if you have like a million dollar painting in your home
have insurance on it and you literally cannot move that painting from one wall to another
without a professional art handler because that's your insurance policy yeah right so he was going
into these big homes and he was like kind of seeing the inside of how some of these galleries work
and it is just gauzy like total there's so many lies happening you know where like they'll buy
something for for you know eight thousand dollars but on the wall it said twenty thousand dollars
and so the collector says this is a twenty thousand dollar painting now I'm going to donate this
painting to you know the Sacramento Museum of Art or whatever and I get a twenty thousand dollar
tax tax write-offs yeah yeah yeah paying twenty thousand dollars in taxes and um it's just
there's I don't have a lot of respect for that I'd rather you know where I'm at at the level I'm
at and have it feel like it's real right and what's funny is a lot of these big um you know like
you ever heard of Sachi Charles Sachi yeah yeah absolutely I kind of I learned in London so
yeah it was a very present present name there in the whole done British artist scene right
yeah it was horrible I hated it left his own market with lies and right and a lot of those painters
you know they're just they were like they they were caught up in a wave and and and and their work
doesn't doesn't stand up and and I mean Charles Sachi famously just had his his storage space miraculously
you know he took out a huge insurance policy and he put all this work that was was gonna not do well
um oh really wow on fire and so which brings me
right no I was having visions of like of moment on fire and you know and take gallery on fire
and stuff like this yeah essentially that's the same thing right you know it's just a fiat
machine you know what I mean yeah and there's kind of this uh as in painting painting of them
between those institutions and and financial institutions you know what's that sorry
there's just a fuzzy line between the two right yeah yeah uh oh what is his name uh shoot
a Jeff Coons yeah yeah he was before he was an artist in the 70s he was in finance he was
really and he was going to parties um where there were you know rich bankers and young artists and
they all wanted to party together the artists you know the artists had the the cool space and the hot
the hot uh men and women for these bankers and the bankers probably had the good cocaine
and see through the parties and Jeff Coons literally he said in an interview I was going to these
parties as a banker and I realized oh I'd rather be an artist right and so he just that's not that
says so much man that says so uh he's so he so fits with these giant captains of finance and
industry because that's what they are he is yeah he's not a hands-on artist he is a like a director
he's a director he hires school and they do the work and he goes to the parties and um well it's
it's just become such a tool uh are in general right both a financial tool and a political tool
you know I mean the whole the whole of the pop-up movement having been you know used or controlled
by the CIA back in the day to affect a political narrative right yeah yeah when I and it was
and it sorry sorry well I said when I learned that fact that the seat yeah right was fluffing
these auctions and throwing out canned chandelier bids on paintings and and uh that they were just
doing it as like a uh American exceptionalist propagating a tool against yeah yeah so be it art
that was stuck in the exploding quote it really blew my mind I was like wow I would look at these
Barnett Newman paintings and and gee these are so great minimalist stuff and what have you and
then I'm like wow you know what they just they deconstructed painting they got a bunch of people
that were were in bed with the CIA to write magazine articles about how great it was and uh
right yeah yeah exactly and did they like parling were they easy to lure into honey traps yes they
were you know what I mean yeah it's it's and it was I mean because as soon as you realize this
thing of culture being upstream of everything and how it has been used especially in the last century
in this one now too to affect a narrative right like with the whole hippie movement and everything
that the Tabestock Institute did and all of this stuff you know it's um it just completely
guilt see your whole perspective on all of these things that we hit us him to be grassroots movements
right yeah and then you realize the effect that it's had upon I mean you see the these generations now
the young generations who were just like I mean in in the normal world right who were just like
completely have given up hope they've given up it's just this nihilism has has penetrated so deep yeah
and that's right one reason call it call the art that comes out a lot of a lot of these
um you know East Coast um Ivy League art schools like Yale and whatever they call it zombie formalism
wow wow yeah it's got to be a certain size they can't say anything they're just sort of abstract
I mean I call it hotel lobby art um right right yeah yeah there's so much of that right there's
so much of that it's true yeah and if you're in art because you have giant walls to cover and you
also need you know tax avoidance schemes you are not going to buy you know a 5,000 or 8,000 or 10,000
it has to be at least 50,000 dollars otherwise time and the effort yeah yeah yeah yeah just
these prices and crappy work like Dan Kolen he's the worst you know I don't know who he's you know
he's one of these kind of um he's like the American version of the YBA kind of a bad book
mm okay slap art you know we're right yeah yeah how bad can we do this and you know I'll just do a
canvas that that's just stretched and that won't even be hanging on the wall it's just leave
oh my god this is like I'm it's interesting you say this because I had really observed this in
Iceland because I spent 17 years there right and there aren't seen there I mean for one there
isn't a big enough market for most of them that they can survive off of off of sales
so they're mostly they like Iceland has a program where you can apply annually or buy annually
to for government support and this is what most of the artists live off right and musicians and authors
and etc and in order to get this government support you've got to tell the fucking line right
you're not getting that support if you're doing some anti-authoritarian stuff you're not doing
you know it has to fit the narrative which is predominantly west right it's world you can
like forums down narrative so this is it's all sculpted it's all sculpted and molded by by
this by this narrative and it's all nihilist it's all ugly like intentionally not I'm not saying
that as an objective thing it's just you know it's potentially just ugly and sloppy and fucking you
know yeah nihilist and it's just so sad and I just never wanted to have anything to do with this
and that's why I was so so happy to to discover the bitcoin world right yeah it's like yes
I hope was that sorry it's demoralizing it really is intentionally and intentionally man
and and it really just it alienates people yeah and then they they're like art sucks yeah
like you could do that or whatever and it's supposed in the spider it's supposed to uplift it's
supposed to you know we need to bring it back to them I think we are and you know and I think
yeah we're at the early stages of this um of a very exciting exciting new scene you know
and there you know articles what's the guy called um rice um Stephen rice is that correct
the guy who writes articles and his I think the way that he sees things developing I think there's
a lot to it you know I think that we will be offering an alternative to the to this you know and I
think um with time you know I mean things are going up not the statue but um some of these
and christians and stuff like this you know and I think with time this will be um yeah like a whole
new art movement you know I've ever heard of the stuckest I have but I can't place it now it was um
oh gosh what was there there was some it was one of satchis satchis artists that uh she she
did like the installation of like a tent with a mattress in it oh oh oh um blibi um what's the name
uh traci emmon yeah traci emmon she was like dating this guy who was at the time who was
you know he was more in alignment with the type of things that we're talking about
as a representation side and she was like you are stuck you're stuck you're stuck and you thought
okay well I'm a stuckest and so they uh you know they it is uh I think it was kind of a
movement for a while I'm not sure what's happened with um with a lot of the painters that
that were showing at like stuckest shows and stuff but you know I'd rather be a stuckest than
than just like a toady you know yeah yeah I'm gonna look into him that's uh well cool okay
interesting yeah there's like probably if you type in stuckism you know the guys yeah yeah
there's like a wikipedia page of it some of them I mean they they should uh Charles Thompson and
Billy Childish are a couple of the big names oh yeah yeah yeah Billy Childish rings a bell
absolutely yeah okay cool I will do thanks um reminding everyone this is uh Alex Schaefer
my friend's financed in it right yes I was I'll say she's uh my Joan Bogum Alex Schaefer yeah
okay cool it's Alex Schaefer on the the the whole entire universe show uh and we are
being hosted by the bitcoin art uh broader cast which is uh all thanks to the bitcoin art magazine
which I hope everyone has uh has their copy coming through them soon uh Alex is in there I'm in it
there are a number of people areas in it hey I'm just having a quick look over there over the
over list here um and yes and I think Asuna he's got his uh shows happening once or even twice a
week now uh and so there's lots happening um you can check it out on the uh bitcoin oh wow
now I haven't got my my written down with me but it's it's all yeah lots of exciting things
happen so thanks everyone for tuning in um it's uh it's been a real pleasure speaking to you
Alex I was I was very like happy meeting you were at Vegas because I was in place that was like
yeah it was suit I mean I hated Vegas everyone knows that I really hated it but it was like a family
reunion yeah right and we're gonna be able to replay it next year or the same thing oh my goodness
I'll be better prepared this time so yeah I'll I'll know what's what's facing me actually I've
been to Vegas one time before my brother got married when I was like nine or 10 years old yeah
and uh it was a convenience wedding right that lasted for like a month max uh green card wedding
and uh and it was in some casino obviously cheaper thing going and there was this like
little old lady in the pink tracks who who was part of the package deal that she was filming it so
they got a video right and uh and then he did the whole like I do a bit and as soon as he said I do
the little old lady in pink said can you say that again please it wasn't loud enough for the camera
he he had to repeat the whole kind of like the whole um that I do part which I found so amazing
might even at my little old age I was like wow dripping irony man what the fuck that's crazy
so that was that had been my previous experience in Las Vegas and I was not disappointed this year
um but yeah no it was super fun meeting you because because like yeah you can have these very
you know these paintings are like right you know uh get police attention and shit and then
and you're actually this just like as everyone who's been listening has found out just like
super gentlemanly like real nice guy to chat to and it was just real nice hanging out and I was
really happy to um to make that association you know that you can uh put the person to the work
yeah it's always nice to do you nice to see work in person yeah that too you know I mean I always
try to make a painting that um that I like in person you know so that's why that that's getting
back into the how do you paint you know I write texture and the physicality of it and you know that
it's sometimes it's wrong and then you fix it and you make a mistake and sort of like destroy
create destroy create that sort of back and forth that we see in nature that comes through
it is in the process you know but that to me that to me is part of the thing especially nowadays
in this world that is oversaturated with AI stuff so rapidly right yeah it's exactly that that
gives it the human thing that we so yearn for right if it's too perfect we there's the soul
is missing yeah and it's it's exactly that this and and that's why it was so fun to see
you're painting in person because like you really see how like rough and how much like actual
fire emotion went into the production of that painting you know um yeah it's as much in the
um in the in the execution as it is in the as the execute did yeah yeah as just my children
yeah no but in the subject matter you know yeah exactly I mean um you know just as as a painter
you know you could you can draw a line and you can draw a perfect line and then that line can
become like you're afraid to cross it because it's like well this is exactly where the head is
and yeah spent all this time getting this line transferred onto the canvas that now I'm just
going to paint up to that line then I'm going to paint the background and you know I've seen
videos of painters sometimes where they almost work like uh like a inkjet printer you know they
start yeah like me and and um all of my paintings have a moment where they are out of control
you know you've got to you've got to get off balance every now and then you know like I have
planar paintings I take off my glasses um oh yeah okay nice
22,000 vision it's like terrible terrible but I don't want to see what I'm doing necessarily
that's interesting it's not like I have a cataract I can still see all the colors but I can't see
every leaf and every crack window and every crack in the street and whatever and it's like
yeah if I can just push through cover this canvas as quick as I can just get it on there
right and and not you know tickle the brushstrokes and not worry about everything being the exact
same place I know I can get it there eventually but it doesn't have to be there in the beginning
you know the fact it's super interesting you say this because I always I like some while a long
long time ago I had to thought like surely like perfect vision I do have like perfect vision
is actually an inhibition to see to an extent because you're not you're like my eyes personally
they're always darting for all the details right which yes is a form of seeing
but in so doing I can often miss the impression the feeling and all of this stuff and that's
you know painfully apparent in my work I do these super meticulous ink chest tile-fringing
renditions might change at the moment I enjoy doing that but that's in itself it's own it's
own expression right but I find it super interesting to hear you say that and it really comes
across in in your work it's funny there was there was a time when I was making video games when
I was like oh maybe I should get like because I would wear glasses sometimes or I would wear
contacts I go with the kind of back and forth and I was like maybe I should get the laser surgery
and then I'll just have great vision all the time I am so glad I didn't do that because now
I have like a choice I can see the detail yeah yeah and I can just see the colors and the blur
and I can get my painting in a blur to look like the the landscape that I'm looking at
shit I'm like 80% done you know I'm saying yeah right yeah I'm raised with computers and
what have you to get to the sharpness and but it doesn't always have to and in fact I think it's
better to start rough and then coalesce to to the to the sharp edges but like for instance like in
the yeah you can see that in the how you do the buildings that the the banks themselves are
actually quite meticulously done in contrast to the flames and it's the same in your magic
lantern paintings where the the the audience is actually surprisingly rough it doesn't appear
that way it it looks like it's very very well painted and you look into it it's like wow this
is actually super fast and none of them have faces or fingers and and shit you know but then the
projection itself is super meticulous and yeah actually I would go ahead yeah sorry I was just
wanting to give people the opportunity because like we're we're pulling up to to like the at
least the end of the official hour and I would just like if there's anyone who wants to
ask something to kind of like line themselves up and request to speak while Alex and I
wrap this up now so if anyone has anything to ask or to say to add now is your time or forever
regret it you know and just while while people do or don't do that I would like to ask you about the
magic lantern works that you that you were doing because I really love it yeah especially especially
the sun in your way that has a special place in my heart that just you know I'm going to always
continue to to make other pieces you know and I would say that one of the overarching things that
captivates me and that I think is magical about painting is the effect of light and that you can
take paint and you can make a painting if you accurately articulate your values and your colors you
can make this thing that is just based on fabric look luminous and have this right
wing effect and it's not into a wall it's not it's not you know there's no electricity involved
it's magical isn't it yeah I drew this and I representational painting and creating the illusion
of light and shadow with is very much like it is a magic trick right you are fooling the viewer
into your sort of like taking advantage of a part of their brain that that just is wired to see
objects you know with light on them with no light you cannot see and you know there's an intrinsic
quality to objects that is is called local color you know a blue book is always going to be a
blue book and it's going to be darker than a book that has a white cover and those do not ever
going to change but then that sort of locked in I call it a cord of local colors you can move
that cord of lock this colors up and down the grayscale without you are even realizing what you've
done you know yeah yeah you you'll have colors on your palette that are like just look like brown
but then like the like the famous blue black dress example right yeah yeah which to me is a is a white
and gold dress in the shade yeah absolutely yeah there's no question about it yeah I don't
understand how anybody sees that no obviously like a white dress that's in the shade with outdoor
bright sun illumination behind it right exactly exactly it's quite clear but you're a painter you
have an advantage yeah because I know what the trick is you know yeah the two things that came
out of the renaissance that were the the two most important things were one and they're not
necessarily in this order but the first thing was linear perspective creating a geometric illusion
of space the other one is is called kiyoto scudo which is right creating the effect of light and
shadow with paint right you know it goes into again like the two aspects to any composition I
call it the line and the colors and color even Leonardo in his book that he wrote centuries ago
about you know advice to the painter even he said the color is the hard part
the line there's ways to get the line and it's funny look at all these old engravings by
Albrecht Durer they these guys came up with all kinds of crazy contraptions to help them draw
right yeah yeah with like glass paints like Leonardo said you can just put a pane of glass
in front of your subject matter and take a grease pencil close one eye and just trace the contours
and you can and they did yeah yeah yeah I used to do that on shop windows actually with a marker
yeah the hard part the magical part is is the color you know but a lot of people just you know
thinking in terms of talking about nuts and bolts painting stuff a lot of people are mistaken
into thinking they have to get the line first and then the color and so they will draw perfect
drawing and then that becomes a stumbling block because the drawing is perfect so now I can't
cover it up with paint yeah yeah I don't we know the problem yeah yeah I feel like the the line
becomes like a fence that you can't cross yeah absolutely I guarantee you that 80% of the likeness
and the joy and the beauty of the painting is in the color yeah this is that was the message that
we learned from the impressionists yeah this is something that I really appreciate appreciate it
we had both in an eye we like taught at a Rudolph Steiner preschool and so both of our kids
went there yeah and there it's very natural they like do lots of sacred geometry they do lots of
like you know getting to know nature and carving and wool work and all the shit is is more important
than you know the things they taught at school normally here and their method of teaching like
in the preschool level they were only allowed or not allowed but given like these wax blocks
to color with and so and it was all about the surface that these wax blocks created rather than
the lines so because they you couldn't really do lines with them so you would they would learn
first to create areas of color rather than doing the line that then get filled in and then slowly
they would build up on that or as they progressed with age and maturity right so they had this like
this built-in kind of like you know or ability for that you know which I really appreciate that
I thought that was a really good way of doing it yeah yeah I'm 100% behind that yeah yeah absolutely
yep yeah cool there's no one jumped up to ask questions yet I guess we're just doing such a good
good job of entertaining them ourselves um but I also like I want to respect your time I want to
respect other people's time I don't want to have this too long I realize also you've got things
that you've got to be doing um I'm not spending much of boxes right now yes hey guys do you see
well Amy DG is here she has her hand up I'm not sure if she oh I can't see that why can I look
oh because I'm just a speaker I'm not a host oh yeah because I didn't want to take the risk
because last time right right but you can still see her there Amy can I can see her absolutely right
for a degree from her because I've only seen her as a as a as a profile picture so far so I'm
really excited to hear what Amy has to say hi Amy hi I didn't want to interrupt but I have to
tell you this has been so good for my soul to sit here and listen I I have a studio at home
and I'm usually doing work while I'm listening in spaces and I put the brushes down I just
I could listen for days for the conversation where it went and it's so painterly um Alex I thank you
so much for sharing um part of your day to talk about your process and I'm just so full of love
thank you it was beautiful thank you I got goosebumps
oh wow you know we um like I said there's there's there's the the subject and there's the the
process you know and yeah I could go on and on about one or the other you know and sometimes um
you know talking about the process it just here you learn now you're it's like a painter's
painter is talking to painters but but you know I I have I found painting just to be a philosophy
a way to learn about yourself and your life and and and the process is very important you know
you have to love it and um absolutely there's so many ways to to just fall in love with painting
again uh there's so you know if you sit and you meditate on your process and you kind of write
down how you do things then just flip everything upside down you know um if you work from a photograph
literally turn the photograph upside down and you know I mean because like uh take the glasses off
be uh be more aggressive um I always kind of divide painters and and you know when I when I think
of art art I'm a painting supremacist and so when someone
I think of painters and I think of painting and um and uh I am of the firm belief and
have come to the understanding that I am in the rough school I am team uh team Rembrandt team
Titian team Manay you know there is the there's the other side of the spectrum you know it's like
those are the Dionysians and then there's the audience and that's like team Ang and team uh uh
uh Raphael and um and that's better than the other you know that's what what are the fun things
about like going to a Bitcoin art show uh is that you get all of these things at the same time
you know and you know and various you know it's I love it each kind of like representing
their one aspect of the of art history basically really you know and taking it further doing it
on uh interpretation of it and that on kind of like you know imbued with this with this new passion
for life and creation and it's uh you're burning it down you know and the thing I would say is
let yourself leave a painting wrong you know um it's okay if you don't if it doesn't always look
perfect I mean that's one reason why I think DeGa is such a valuable lesson because I look at
DeGa's work and I would probably say that he finished maybe 70 but it's like 30% of his paintings
are finished and 70% are unfit that's the beautiful thing yeah yeah yeah yeah and you start you
start to recognize oh this is unfinished like literally left this painting in this state of
unfinished and went on to something else so because he he gave attention to the bits that he
was giving attention right yeah he was he was like this is the bit that needs the expression
the rest of it is peripheral vision vision basically right right it's just like with the impression
the movement the color the atmosphere the light um the the music in his case really you know
and they're understanding that you can finish it but later you know sometimes better
a brushstroke that's not quite right but has a lot of energy it is better to just let that brush
stroke dry then just there and try to make make it perfect you know it's like paint a butter you
can't pet a butterfly you just have to let it be and there's energy in the brush strokes the color
and and the ridges of the hair going through the stroke of the paint and and there's this magic
with oil paint or even acrylic where it looks wet but it dry is hard you know when you start to
paint wet paint over the dry paint you know another good artist to look at is Bertamora so
you know I don't know she was kind of an acolyte of manay and oh okay
impressionist and you look at some paintings of women with babies and she did a lot of that
subject matter and it'll be like oh I think I know it has been color is right and it's in the right
place but you look at it and you go oh my gosh there's like no fingers or there's it's just
it's just some burnt sienna and white and some yellow ochre and it's kind of smeared and and
and then you look at her unfinished work and you look at her finished work and you're like
at some point this finished painting looked like this unfinished painting you know oh wow yeah right
so used to going museum and we see everything is finished it's all done that actually that
brings me to a question that I had forgotten about but I was I did it across my mind roughly how long
does one of your works take like it like that say the one that you didn't vague us I think that's
quite a good like average yeah or maybe I think so well to me there is there like if you've had a
stopwatch on the painting and I started that stopwatch every time it was on my easel and I was
putting paint on it mm-hmm maybe 20 hours total okay okay always working on like
five eight ten different paintings you know I might have that painting in my studio for months
you know but every time I get it back and I'm like oh there it is okay now I know I want to solve
this problem I throw it back on the easel and I work on it for five hours you know right and then
yeah well you're a very productive person yeah that's the sure better to just have a lot in my
in my practice it's better to have a bunch of pieces going then to try to finish one and then
start another one and finish it and then start one and finish it I'd rather start eight paintings
and then you know and then take the first one and and it's nice dry now and all the
brushstrokes are frozen and locked in and I can put more paint on top of it um and get that
interesting surface build up that I think makes for a captivating painting especially to see it in
person um but some artists don't work that way like the teeth no I cannot imagine working that way
I'm so fixated on what I'm doing and we'll pull my entire life into it until it's done you know
so I can't imagine it at all but like he would he would work on one painting at a time
and yeah he would finish it and then he would start another painting and he would finish it but then
an artist like Toulouse LaTrac I remember someone describing the way his studio was set up he had
like 15 easels in a circle in his studio wow the 15 different paintings on it and a big palette
and he would literally just walk from one painting and then he'd go oh this color will look good
and he'd walk to another painting and pop pop pop he puts some pressure on and um yeah I mean
the that that way you are you're allowing the the wind you have at the moment to be able to
get expression right because if you're working on one particular thing as ash I don't really have
that kind of energy for that kind of painting today it's just not resonating with me today and then
you can just go to something that's red and you want to do something that's red today you know yeah
and again one way or the other is not better than you know but it's just understanding what your
nature is what your artist temperament is and and just leaning into that you know which is what
you were saying what you were saying early on about like it's such a self-discovery thing one
learns so much about oneself through the process of creating and that's whether it's painting or
or making musical or whatever it's honing that craft yeah over a lifetime teaches you so much
about yourself and about your yeah so much you know so yeah yeah it's brilliant and thank god we
don't all have the same way of working because otherwise it just wouldn't be nearly as a as a
abundant right yeah and that's why there are so many French academic painters that would go to
you know coach your studio or something and they would learn his recipe and and nobody cares about
those paintings now right and yeah like I've always recoiled whenever an art teacher would hand out
a flyer or a pamphlet and it was like a recipe for skin tone I was like this is bullshit right
yeah yeah yeah such thing but that's how that's how it used to be you know like Rubens had a recipe
and and and and that worked because that was Rubens you know and Rafael had a recipe and for his
skin tones and you kind of needed that but when I have it like a teacher I go sit in on someone's
glass and they hand out and they go here's how you mix skin tone Naples yellow and yellow over for
the forehead and then burns skin and white for the cheeks and then you add some cherrosa
for nose and you're like what the fuck who are it and that depends so entirely on the light
and the time of day and what clothing they're wearing and what colors the walls are and so much
yeah yeah you know what if someone's skin's really red or what if you know what I said really embarrassed
by being painted yeah you know there's so many factors yeah yeah yeah yeah well yeah it becomes
so full for me legs and right and then the skin tone will just look out of place that the
person will look like copy-paste it in right when you when you get the the flyer that has the
recipe for skin tone you're basically getting how to you know white people in white light and
that's it well it's like no no serious chef works according to recipes you know it's the same thing
yeah it's it's good to have a foundation to learn from to you know to kind of like so you're
not spending five years making tons of mistakes but then but but you have to build from there and
you have to then like use your eyes and your your heart and stuff you know cool well listen it's
we've done one and a half hours which I kind of in in my mind is kind of like my personal
limit that being able to to to do these things of what I find personally interesting you know
a good length to listen to yeah um is there anything anyone would like to say is anything you would
like to say as as final final words yes we have oh we have we have case I think okay
too so I thank you for such an incredible conversation and just really enjoyed learning more
about Alex everything about your process your past it's just been incredibly inspiring so I'm
very grateful and I wanted to say Una had a request that I'm so sorry I missed so I just
brought her up because yeah I forgot that you're not a ghost and so I'd like to to see what she
would like to share and maybe just before that I'll just let everybody know that there's a link
in the in the nest if anyone hasn't seen the Hottley Day market by Franklin Crypt there's
excellent Christmas presents from various artists and you can get the bitcoin art magazine at the
Hottley Day market and the best news about the magazine is that it is printed and it'll be on its
way to us I know how real soon so we're very hopeful almost certain that it would reach the magazine
and the gold foil will reach people in the US well before Christmas so that's just a really great
piece of news in case in case you are hoping to get some free gifts but um thank you and then oh
real quick as well um oh did we lose any oh no he's there okay well who's you're do you have
an answer here do you have another guest lined up oh no I haven't thought that far but it will
be same time next week it'll be Wednesday evening for Europeans midday for Americans but no I
haven't I haven't done that yet I have to get to that on an account an hour of course we'll
repost that and so same time same place there will be another wonderful whole entire universe
discussion and um and then yeah I know how we'll be having episode four of the bitcoin art podcast
and again I'm not sure who the guest will be just keep your eyes up I'm very upset that I missed
the um the one with with fractal oh I put it in the nest as well yeah I have to have to check
up on that one I'm sure it was I'm sure it was all right so Una welcome thank you thank you
Alex has been such a pleasure listening to you and you just make it sound so easy don't you
you just make it sound like it's just simple and all you gotta do is just turn up and do it
and use your eyes and your brain and discernment of what's going on around you and I love it
and it's so true it's been absolutely great and all I wanted to do basically was just to be
allowed to read again what Arnick read for you guys in the beginning because I feel like it was a
little bit rushed and it just deserves like another take at the end of it that's very kind of you
are you okay with that fine with it Alex you're okay with that it's a very short thing I'm
just going to switch around because obviously I'm not Arnick reading it but it's um so I would
just say thank you for this morning afternoon and evening ladies and gentlemen this has been the
second episode of Fall and Fire Universe with Arnick welcome and Boomer Stinks on the Bitcoin
art broadcast presented to you uh courtesy of Bitcoin art magazine make sure you're following
coin art magazine on all social media channels you can find all our links on Bitcoin art magazine.com
and do make sure to order yourself a copy of the magazine or even the fine art book version if
you haven't done so already this is absolutely certain to become a seminar work of Bitcoin art
history and features many of the artists presented on this show including Arnick you can stay up
today with all upcoming shows on Bitcoin broadcast.com and do make sure that you're following Arnick on
Twitter, Arnick Malcolm and you can check out the artwork that he makes on Arnick Malcolm.com
that's all I wanted to add because as Amy already said it's been so incredibly just entertaining
relaxed and very very just yeah satisfactory it's very nice you say
mostly taken care of thank you so much I'm going to mute myself now thank you I can't let you say
that without without adding the fact that but basically I just wrote what us and I heard sent me
like hey say something like this and I just click quickly wrong to now change a little bit but those
are basically us and ours words so so he gets all the credit for that little intro but thank you
that's very kind of you thank you guys yeah thank you Keesa for hosting it so well and thank you
Amy for your for your for your lovely edition there it was real nice and Alex thank you so much
for your time for your insight for your work for being a gentleman and for yeah for a great
second episode of the whole entire universe thank you for having we'll see you thank you so
much Alex yeah exactly and see you in Vegas all right then man thanks everyone good night good night

Bitcoin Art Magazine

Bitcoin Art Magazine

Bitcoin Art Magazine
