Allegiant–Sun Country Merger: What’s Really at Stake?

Hello and welcome to the airline Weekly Lounge. I'm your host Gordon Smith and I'm

joined by J. Shabbat and Magnet Maharishi. In this special episode we're making sense

of the proposed merger between a legent and some country airlines.

Yesterday, on what was shaping up to be a regular, quiet Sunday, the US airline industry

got abruptly woken up from its afternoon nap. A legent hair and some country announced

that they're merging, or he's going to try to merge, in a deal that signals how quickly

consolidation pressures are moving from theory to reality. We're recording here around

10 a.m. on January 12th and we've just had an investor call held by the leaders of

both companies, which my colleagues J and Magnet were listening into. Magnet is also just

off the phone to a legent boss Greg Anderson. So it's safe to say that we're in a good

place to help make sense of all of this. J, Magnet, welcome to the show. So many places

we could begin, but Magnet kickers off for any listeners that are coming in cold to this

story. What happened yesterday? Yeah. So this is a 1.5 billion dollar merger. A legent

is buying sun country at a 20% premium. And it's just going to create a bigger ultra low

cost carrier. We haven't really seen an merger between two ultra low cost carriers at all

in the US, at least one that is most likely going to be approved. Obviously there's been

enough discussions between frontier and spirit. But this is the first time we're seeing

a deal between two ultra low cost carriers, really materialized. And they're both, you

know, similar airlines, but also different at the same time, you know, like a legent

is known for kind of operating a lot of these like smaller markets and connecting those

smaller markets to very popular leisure destinations like Vegas, Florida, the Caribbean. Sun country

is kind of similar, except they operate mostly out of Minneapolis. And they also connect

their customers to those popular leisure destinations. But sun country also has a very big cargo

and charter business. And actually some of that cargo growth has been outpacing their scheduled

passenger service. A great scene setter. Some of the themes that I'm sure we'll pick up

later on in the conversation. I want to bring in Jay. It's fair to say you've seen a few

mergers or attempted mergers in your time, Jay, looking at this industry and all of its

wonderful quirks. You've been taking a look at some of the financials between the two companies.

Give us a bit of a top line headline take around the numbers there.

Yeah, thanks Gordon. So I will go over just some of the recent financial performance of

these two airlines. Give you a sense of the position they're in going into this transaction.

Sun country very straightforward. They in 2024 earned an operating margin of 10%. This

year for the first three quarters of, I'm sorry, 2025 for the first three quarters of the year

anyway, they were at 11%. And then if you go back to 2019, they were at 12%. So very consistent,

you know, they do have that very unique business model with a lot of the cargo and charter diversification.

And they've been able to perform very consistently as I mentioned throughout both the pre and

post COVID periods, very different situation for a legion. So a legion in 2019 had an operating

margin of 21%. So this was one of the super all stars of the global airline industry, at least

in terms of margins. Obviously, smaller airlines, so they kind of flew under the radar for most people,

particularly outside of the United States, but just a very, very, very successful airline. Now,

in 2024, their operating margin was just 7%. So, you know, if you're jet blower frontier, spirit,

7%, 2024 looks great. But if you're a legion looking in the mirror, looking in the rear view mirror,

that's 7% is like, okay, we, you know, we've got some issues here. In 2025, first three quarters,

only 5%. So you can see that a legion has had some post COVID problems. And without taking up too

much of everybody's time here, if I may, Gordon and Megda, I just have a few that I wanted to

mention, and we'll certainly go into much more detail in the upcoming issue of airline weekly.

But the, I'll start by saying this. So at one point in last year, 2025,

a legion's aircraft utilization rates, very important measure productivity.

20% below their 2019 levels. Now, for those of you familiar with a legion, you might say, well,

what's wrong with that? This is a low utilization business model, right? I mean, a legion

has this unique situation where they actually make money by keeping planes on the ground.

And we can explain that on another podcast, but they have that business model where they're

really only flying the planes in peak demand periods. However, while it's true that a legion

is not flying their planes 12, 13 hours a day, it still makes a big difference when you're flying

only, let's say five or six hours versus seven or eight. So that's been a big productivity

issue for them. And that goes a long way towards explaining their kind of the difference in how

well they're performing 2019 versus today. Okay, so I'm going to say a few reasons why their

utilization is down while also mentioning a few mixing in a few other kind of challenges that

they faced. So one is that coming out of the pandemic, they did face some pilot shortages,

some operational issues. At one point, they gave their pilots a pay increase

before they actually signed the new contract. They still have an open contract.

They're still negotiating a new contract with the pilots. But at one point, they actually gave

them a pay raise without getting any commensurate productivity gains. So that was temporarily very

hurtful to their earnings. They also had a rough hurricane season in 2024, a mild one in 2025.

That was helpful. They had, you know, max delays, Boeing max delays coming also coming out of

COVID. They had some IT issues transitioning to the new reservation system. And then in terms of

markets, Las Vegas has been very weak for them. Las Vegas, and this has nothing to do with the

aircraft utilization issue, as I mentioned, but in terms of demand and revenue strength,

Las Vegas at one time was very rock solid for them. And I'll read this one quote from a

legend in their, this is from their third quarter earnings call. They said, Vegas still underperforms

where we'd like it to be. Maybe on the seasonality front, it's historically been a very unseasonal

market. Pre-pandemic, it was a very, it was very reliable year round. It definitely feels

more seasonal today than it had, which is unfortunate, given how much of a rock star it has been

for so long. So that just kind of speaks, you know, right from the horses mouth there about Vegas

being just not the market that used to be. And I'm sorry to drone on the last thing I'll say is

that this is an airline that is very, very Florida exposed. However, much they're associated with

being Las Vegas. That's their headquarters. That's, you know, at some point in the years, the

biggest market. But at the end of the day, Las Vegas, only about 5% of their seats, such as Las Vegas,

that's from Serium Deodata. I could tell you, 32% of their seats over the past 12 months touch

Florida. So Florida, extremely important. They haven't said anything about Florida being anywhere

near experience in the same kind of distress as Las Vegas. But I do suspect when we talked about

this Gordon in our previous podcast, that Florida may not be the strongest market right now. So I

say all of this has a prelude to explaining why a legion might have been thinking about

doing some kind of merger, some kind of transaction that would give them a boost. And I'll stop there.

You can follow up questions. But they there are, I do see this as a deal that with little has

little risk and quite a bit of upside for a legion. So there's quite a few different motivations

for why they would do this. And I think at the end of the day, it all sounds pretty compelling to

me. Well, we'll get on to the regulatory elements in a bit where the competition watchdog will

like what they hear. But yeah, just going back to your utilization rate. I remember flying with

the Legion in the mid 2010s and had the Mad Dogs, the MD-80s. They were sort of the poster child for

low utilization because these aircraft were so depreciated. They could afford to be on the ground

even though they were thirsty and noisy and everything else because they didn't really cost much

in the first place. But obviously very, very different with all the new aircraft that are a

Legion getting. They definitely have higher costs there. Let's bring you back in because you are

literally off the phone to Greg Anderson, the CEO of a Legion in the past 30 minutes or so.

What was the tone? Obviously, you both listened to the investor call, but a one-on-one conversation,

whether any additional nuggets there? Yeah, I think Greg Anderson, he really emphasized how he

thinks this is a very complimentary merger, how they're very complimentary networks. They really

only overlap on one route. And I believe that is Appleton, Wisconsin, to Fort Myers, Florida.

So I think he sent a very positive on the call and he seems pretty confident that this is a merger

that will most likely get approved. Also, it has support from both of the airlines boards.

So overall, I think he seemed like he had a pretty sunny tone and I think another thing he emphasized

that sort of how this merger will give, I think, both of these airlines an ability to grow.

I mean, even in the case of a sudden country, you know, they're mostly based out of Minneapolis

and you can only gross how much in that region. So I think there's a lot of hope that this

merger will give them more leg room. And yeah, it is important to contextualize this. We are

talking about two scheduled U.S. airlines at Magnum and Jay, but they are two of the very smallest

of the pack. So Jay, just help us put this in context, assuming the deal does go through.

We're not talking about a new superpower emerging here. You're not going to have the

United's and the Americans and the Delta's of this world worried, but it is going to be a more

powerful force, particularly in the leisure market. It will be, so they'll have a combined, it looks

like, again, this is using Syrian fleet status, but it looks like they'll have a combined,

well, let's see, Eligen has 121 active planes right now and it looks like Sun Country has 64,

so you can, you know, do the math, but we're getting, you know, close to 200 there. And so, yeah,

not a small aircraft, but as you mentioned, there's certainly not going to be giant.

You know, Magnus had something, I think, important that I just wanted to maybe expand

upon, mentioned how Minneapolis has growth opportunities. Now, one thing about Sun Country,

when you're thinking about what was their motivation for selling here, they were short of aircraft.

And they have no aircraft on order right now. And if you think about Sun Country and their

management, which Jude Brick or their CEO actually originally comes from, he was one point

leading Eligen. And one of his and Sun countries, sort of, specialties or one of their strengths

is negotiating good aircraft deals. I mean, that's what they have a team there that has just

had a lot of experience with that, a lot of success with that. And remember that we are facing

a narrow body aircraft shortage and we have been for a couple years. So it's been very difficult

for them to find attractively priced aircraft to grow. So they've got nothing right now. I mean,

nothing on order. And when they're looking around, you know, and it's never, you're never in a

comfortable position when you're not growing or don't have any growth prospects because

that has, you know, negative implications for economies of scale and your employees don't like it.

And, you know, customers expect more options and your loyalty program doesn't benefit.

So you can see why they would be very open to combining with another carrier. They do, by the way,

also, you know, they are so heavily Minneapolis exposed and Minneapolis St. Paul. And it's a good

market, but it's still always, you know, there always some danger inherent with being overexposed

to just one market. They're also a little bit kind of dependent on the kindness of strangers

there. I mean, Delta competes vigorously at their Minneapolis hub. But if they wanted to, they

could compete more vigorously. And they choose not to, but that is a vulnerability. And then just

the vulnerability of being, you know, an airline with sub 100 air, you know, aircraft fleet is,

you know, you have fewer suppliers depending on you and whatnot. And there's some just inherent

invulnerabilities in being small. So easy enough to explain why a sun country wants to sell.

The more interesting question is, you know, why did a Legion want to buy? And I kind of mentioned

some of their problems, you know, some of their challenges and why they might be thinking about,

you know, or looking for a reason to sort of inject some new momentum into their business model.

And then when you look at the promise benefits of this merger to a Legion, I think I'd kind of loosely

at the risk of oversimplifying it, I put it into four buckets, you know, they have the loyalty

synergies. And it looks like, I think, Jude Bricker from SunCountry said in the call,

they have about two million frequent flyer members in SunCountry. And it looked like a Legion

and their annual report from 2024 had about 20 million. So it's maybe a little bit higher now. But

you know, allegiance is quite a bit bigger. But you do get that extra

extra synergy there on the loyalty programs. That's number one. Number two, you get the fleet

synergies. I talked about, you know, how from SunCountry's perspective, you have access to

allegiance. Very ample order book with Boeing for a whole bunch of maxes. They have a lot of

options to with Boeing that now they can, they're more likely to convert those options with

new network opportunities. And that's kind of the third bucket is the network synergies here.

And if you think about things they can do from Minneapolis now that SunCountry couldn't do

on their own, you know, connecting to some big, allegiance markets like, I don't know, I think

of Cincinnati or even some of the leisure markets like, I mean, they already do Phoenix, but,

you know, they're there, there's some additional markets they could do there. Bricker on the call

talked about some of the schedule aircraft scheduling synergies. I won't go into that now,

but those are kind of interesting too that will help with food help with gate utilization at

Minneapolis. And finally, the fourth bucket would be just the balance sheet is stronger,

you know, just to get a bigger, bigger airline that's more financially resilient. So there you go.

I quite like that bucket option J, even if it is slightly simplified, I'm sure listeners are able

to to decipher the key trends there. And Megna, just taking a step back and looking at it from a

sort of consumer business positioning point of view, allegiance SunCountry are often sort of

grouped together. I drop parallels to British general election night when you've got labor and

the conservatives and then you've got some of the fringe parties that are sort of grouped in a

on a little bar graph called others. It is sometimes tempting to sort of just put them

to the very end when we're discussing the US scheduled operators, but they are meaningful airlines

and they do have models that are distinctive and they aren't identical. Just talk us through the

areas where you think they're going to truly complement each other, maybe areas where they might

clash. And is there a risk here after you listening to Greg Anderson? Are there any risks that this

merged airline sort of become stuck in the middle between the the ULCC and the hybrid carrier

model? What do you say, Reckon? Yeah, so Greg was pretty adamant that the business model was

fundamentally just going to stay the same even as a combined airline. It was just going to be

a little bit bigger. So I think allegiance is still pretty keen on sort of emphasizing those

smaller markets. I do wonder, I do think like one maybe risk point again is, as Jay mentioned,

as Minneapolis, St. Paul. Obviously that's like SunCountry's main market. They have a

very big presence there. They have a pretty loyal customer base. Like Greg Anderson has said that

they will still maintain Minneapolis St. Paul, but I do think it's a little bit unclear as to like

if they will still maintain that very loyal customer base and that big Minneapolis presence there

that is like very synonymous with SunCountry. And then there's also Delta, which is there as well

and Delta is a very big presence at that airport. It's a hub for Delta. Delta can again

as Jay mentioned, go aggressively after this combined airline if it wanted to out of MSP.

So I think like that definitely remains to be seen. I do think like another perk though with

this merger, at least for a legion, they will get some international routes now since SunCountry

operates those to the Caribbean. For example, and I think they will basically be able to expand

like their leisure markets, especially as Vegas has been underperforming in recent quarters

for a legion due to like a variety of reasons such as inflation, you know, impacting

travelverse decisions and whether to go there or not. And I think also some of the U.S.

Canada tensions have also spilled into Vegas tourism and have also impacted a legion in that

sense too. So I think like those are the main I think benefits and risks that I'm right now seeing

to this merger based off of my conversation with Greg Anderson. And Jay, probably a bad day yesterday

for makers of blue and orange aeroplane paint. Was it a bad day for Delta? You know,

Megan has been discussing some of the competitive pressures in and around Minneapolis St. Paul.

Do you think on balance Delta will be probably quite happy to have SunCountry essentially leaving

the picture and being jumbled into this larger, a legion organization?

I mean, when I'm sitting at the pool in the summertime and a fly lands on my arm, it's annoying,

but I just kind of shoot away. It's just not that big a deal. It's just so small. And when you're

Delta, you're thinking more about, you know, flying to Tokyo in London. And you know, it's it's

so, so no, I don't think this is more of a curiosity for Delta. I don't think it really

is going to come up on their competitive radar screen much. You know, might this, if they start

getting real aggressive in Minneapolis, start, you know, adding a whole, you know, start growing

10% and remember, interestingly enough, that a legion is rather large in Cincinnati. That's one

of their biggest origin markets now. That's also a big Delta stronghold. So, you know, you can see

them maybe growing a whole bunch from Minneapolis to Cincinnati and Delta, maybe getting

a little bit upset and retaliating or something. But I think it's very much on the margins.

Stay with us in parts two. We're going to take a look at some of the wider competitive analysis.

Maybe what it means for spirit, frontier, southwest and others. Before that, a quick reminder

to send any questions or comments that you might have for us to podcasts at skiff.com. That's

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wherever you're listening or watching. And if you are enjoying the show, please read us five stars,

all of us are positive review. So we can continue to spread the word about the airline weekly

lines. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with Jayne Meaghan.

Hello and welcome back to the airline weekly lounge. I'm Gordon Smith.

Join by Jayne Meaghan. We're discussing all things, some country and a legend.

Should be a legend and some country, the dominant partner here. It's not a merger of equals.

Jayne Meaghan, regular listeners to the show, regular readers will know that we have

done a Mexico at the end of December, sort of mega merger down there, the Laris and Viva,

Aerobus plotting to come together with a very much a merger of equals 5050 with each group

on a fully diluted basis. This is not that a legend is definitely going to be the dominant

factor here. But yeah, here's nothing question to the both of you. Who do you think is going to be,

we already established deltas, not going to be worried with Jayne's flour on the arm analogy.

Who do you think is going to be a little more nervous, given yesterday's developments?

I mean, I'll jump in for it. I'll say it doesn't really affect anybody too much because so many of

these routes are non-competitive. I mean, 75% or something like that of allegiance routes,

don't overlap with anyone else. Now, you have to believe at the same time I say that, you know,

a Southwest is probably going to look at this and say, okay, you know, this is potentially

a bigger domestic competitor in some, you know, it's, look, I mean, a legion is getting pretty big

in Nashville and we've talked about how important Nashville is to Southwest. But is it, you know,

I think it may be a little bit more serious than the, you know, the fly analogy that I use with Delta,

but is it, you know, a big, did a big camel just censor the tent or I don't know what the

right metaphor is, you know, did a tiger get out of its cage or something? A prop, probably not that

either. I mean, I think Southwest is still just so much bigger you're talking about, you know,

I don't know, 600, 700 airplanes versus 200 airplane. So they, you know, they will sort of

continue to do their own thing. Now, you know, I speak, I say that in a very, very broad sense,

if you go bark market by market, I did mention, you know, the Nashville market. I mentioned

Cincinnati market in Delta's case. Florida, Florida was an interesting one, you know, here in Florida,

a legion is there, they want a piece of that in the wake of spirits, say, imminent, I don't know,

what's the right word? I don't want to say imminent demise because we don't know if they're going

away. But certainly they're downsizing, heavy downsizing, it's already taken place. So they are

investing like many other carriers, Jeppeloo and others, investing a lot of capacity growth into

the Fort Lauderdale market. So they might be a little bit stronger there now with some country,

so Jeppeloo might be concerned there. But I think overall, it's not, you know, it doesn't pose a

major competitive threat or an enhanced competitive threat to anybody. Would you agree with that

Magnus, that sound about right? Yeah, definitely. They're both pretty small enough. I will say it does

sort of show though, I think generally in this industry, having an airline, you can only grow so

much and then you kind of feel a need to merge. And I think that's just the case here, especially

given that both a legion and sun country are pretty profitable and they have definitely not

had the same struggles as spirit and frontier have faced in the past few years or so.

Yeah, I'll say this too. You know, this is a separate from your question, Gordon. I just,

I think it's an important point to add that one thing this does for a legion is it does expose

them more to the charter market, which they're already in. And then it exposes them also to that

cargo market that the sun country is in. And that's, you know, not necessarily

that doesn't automatically means your profits are going to increase overnight just because

you're exposed to these markets, but it does create some kind of risk mitigation for them.

I mean, just one good example is that the cargo stuff that sun country does, that's pretty much

a pastor on the fuel cost. So Amazon will pay that and they, you can picture a scenario where suddenly,

you know, oil prices jump up to $150 a barrel and the cargo market is still hot. And a legion says,

okay, let's do more cargo stuff. Some countries kind of doing that now. They're kind of moving

not for so much fuel reasons, but they're actually growing their cargo business. It's at the expense

of their passenger business. Their passenger business is actually shrinking. And interestingly

enough, a legion's passenger business is shrinking as well this quarter. So they are looking at

various reasons for that, but they're looking for, you can see them looking for new growth

opportunities. But yeah, the charter and cargo stuff is a nice, you know, risk mitigation for a very,

very, very full of tile passenger business. And we should say, as we mentor the very top of the

show, the deal is still subject to the formal approvals that you would expect in Washington and

elsewhere. Jay, you've seen your fair share of merges over the years. Is there anything in this

deal or proposed deal that could slow approval beyond the obvious? Don't think so. I mean,

it's no overlap. They're pretty small. It's, I would be hard pressed to see any impediments here.

In fact, they expect to close. Maybe Magna, you know this. I think they expect to close the deal

like already at the end of this year, right? Yes, they said second half of 2026. Second half of

2026. So they, they don't anticipate too many big obstacles on the regulatory front. I can't,

I would be very surprised if there, there would be a music from Washington as well, generally

earing maybe towards a more, more empathetic point of view when it comes to, to emanate activity,

or at least that's the, the perspective that many analysts are suggesting. Magna, is that

something you agree with? You've been following the ups and downs with spirit and frontier very

closely for for skift where the specifics of this deal or proposed deal unique or do you think

this could be the first domino and a new wave of airline consolidation? Yeah, definitely. I think,

again, the regulatory environment has generally been pretty favorable. A lot of airline executives

have said this is probably the time to do like a merger. I think even Jude Bricker has said that

as well in the past. So I think we can expect to see more consolidation within these next four

years. Some sort of decision on frontier and spirit, I think is eminent. A lot of analysts

think that we will know by the end of January as to whether or not these two airlines will merge.

And I think that would be a really big lifeline to spirit, which is obviously,

struggled a lot, especially during its second chapter 11 bankruptcy. But I generally think like

this Sun Country Legion merger, I could see it being the domino just to more consolidation

happening in the industry, especially as airlines might want to just capitalize on this very

favorable regulatory environment. And Jay, just to follow up on that, is it genuinely a more

favorable regulatory environment? Or is this just our perspective? Has it been stress tested yet?

Yeah, I would be hesitant to say that. I don't know if there's any, I mean, I think what

magna is alluding to, which I think makes sense, is that traditionally the regulatory resistance

to merger is tougher when a Democrat is in the White House. And we have a Republican in the White

House now. But I think this Republican administration is somewhat different. I think there's

we have seen some other mergers where there has been some pushback. So I don't, you know, I don't

know. I wouldn't consider it a slam dunk if, let's say, you know, Delta would propose a merger

with American that it would go through. I'm obviously being extreme there to make a point. But

yeah, I don't know that there's anything that we should take for granted just because

Republican administration is in the White House. But having said that, the previous administration

was so aggressive in, you know, attacking the JetBlue spirit merger, for example. And, you know,

some other mergers outside of the airline industry that I can see why there might be that sentiment

prevailing right now. So much more detail that we will get into both on skiff.com in terms of our

daily news coverage, but also in the airline weekly issue, just the way the calendar gods, they have

not been too come with us. So that news was in hunts last night on January 11th, our new issue of

airline weekly dropping today, January 12th. But much more than our system, we've got a full week

to dot the eyes across the T's and crunch all the numbers. So January 19th, we'll have much more

detail in that issue in airline weekly. Jay Magna, almost half time, Magna, you first, you're closing

thoughts on the developments of the past 24 hours and also where you think the road goes next.

I think we're going to obviously, I think we're going to see more consolidation in the ultra-low

cost space. And this is just the start of it. I think generally the reception to this merger has

been pretty positive, especially from Wall Street. They seem pretty excited by the idea of this

merger, especially just from like the financial perspective, both of these carriers are pretty strong.

I think now everyone's going to be waiting to see, again, a frontier and spirit announce anything,

especially because just given the position that both of those airlines are in, I think, spirit

being in a particularly dire position. So I guess it's really just more of a wait and watch.

It does seem like this merger will be approved. I think also a lot of industry analysts,

do you think that the regulatory environment for this Sun Country Legion merger will be pretty

favorable? And again, there's minimal overlap. But I think the rest of it just remains to be seen.

Jay, I want to use my last few minutes of time here if I may to just say a few words about the

Minneapolis St. Paul market because it's just so central to, I mean, that's everything that

pretty much Sun Country does. So this is a very strong airline market. It's not a fast growing

market. So don't think of it as, you know, you're an Austin or a Raleigh Durham or a Nashville

or anything like that. But the economy in Minneapolis is very strong. The incomes are pretty high.

There's a lot of Fortune 500 companies based there. I've heard Minneapolis St. Paul described

as the Silicon Valley of food. It has for, you know, for many years or for more than a century.

Minneapolis has been a center of food production. So just as an example, Cargill, which is

the largest privately held company in the United States, I believe, is based there. I think

their revenues are comparable to JP Morgan's. I mean, it's just a huge, huge company. And then the

other interesting thing about Minneapolis St. Paul and for those of you who've read my book,

American Places, you'll know this. Sorry, that's a little plug there. But more seriously,

you'll know that Minneapolis St. Paul is huge in the healthcare sector. And if you look at

where all the job growth now is, if you look at which sector remain pretty resilient through that

really awful 2008, 2009 recession, healthcare. So, you know, it was a legion looking at that

when they bought some country. Maybe, maybe not. But that's something to keep in mind. Minneapolis

is a very kind of nice market to have for those reasons. It is, you know, strong economy and

pretty resilient economy through recessions with a lot of heavy corporate traffic that, you know,

you might say, well, they don't, you know, Delta's getting all the corporates. Well, you know, I don't

know. I mean, I think some of that stuff, you know, I summit some of those, some of that money is

fine down to Florida and the Caribbean and, you know, Las Vegas and Phoenix on weekends and

during breaks. So, it's a very, very strong market, I think. And it's why some country has,

you know, has done so well. One big reason. Absolutely.

Magna, Jay, we really appreciate your time, or it's a busy day for all of us.

Magna, I know you're going to go off and write up your interview or skips to keep you

now out for that. A quick reminder, if you're enjoying the podcast and what we do,

why not consider subscription to airline weekly, go to airlineweekly.com or to

slash subscribe. There are a reminder that as an airline weekly subscribe, you get access to all

the airline news on skiff.com plus skiff researches airline reports. And I think there may be one in

the hopper with regard to ultra low cost carriers from our colleague as sharp. So keeping out for that.

And thanks again to Jay Magna for joining me this week for this special episode.

Thanks as always to our producers Monica and Will and thanks for you for listening wherever you

are in the world. We'll catch you next time. Bye for now.

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