‘Always whingeing’: King’s former aide slams Harry & Meghan for playing ‘blame game’

0:00The Telegraph This message is brought to you by today's sponsor, Walden University, set a course for change. Now is the time to make a real change in your life, career and community. At Walden University we give you the support and flexibility to get the W. Walden's online programs are designed for working professionals like you. You'll gain hands-on skills to take on real-world challenges and succeed. Your future is waiting and Walden is here to help you achieve it. Take the first step to make your impact. Visit waldenu.edu. Walden University set a course for change, certified to operate by chef. I'm Jake Stauk, co-founder and CEO of Surveil. We built Surveil to automate the IT work that slows companies down. Onboarding, password resets, access to applications, my laptop stopped working, while employees wait for help their real work is put on hold.

1:02IT desperately wants to automate this work, and that's why they need Surveil. You just tell Surveil what you want to automate in plain English, and it's built. No drag and drop workflows, no expensive consultants. Employees get unblocked and IT teams go from drowning into tickets to building what actually matters. With Surveil IT becomes the AI engine powering the entire company. This is a new way to run IT. We guarantee you'll automate 50% of all tickets, and we'll prove it to you in a free four-week pilot. Go to Surveil.com slash tickets. That's S-E-R-V-A-L dot com slash tickets. How exactly do you handle warring royals and the stories they leaked to the press? Queen Elizabeth II's former press secretary, Dickie Arbiter, joins us to reveal all about what really goes on behind those palace walls. They breeze in here as if they'd never left, and expecting to pick up whether left off six years ago,

2:02and it is nonsense. It is Tonkla Lonsons. They're blaming everybody for their eels. There was a very fine line that we weren't to walk over. It was made very clear to us by the family that there is private and there is public, and we were only allowed to deal with public. And I don't know why I blurted out, but I said, well, it's a pity the family didn't take note of what was actually going on with the Princeton Princess. And very quietly, it wasn't anger, very quietly, she said, the family is my problem, not yours. Wow, Dickie, that's quite the exchange. Welcome to the royalty with me, Hannah Fennes and me, Camila Tomony. Dickie, thank you so much for joining us. Anybody who reads this book will understand how you have been at the heart of the royal family, Christ's management for decades. Can you give us a little rundown of your top hits of things that you have lived through and help them survive?

3:03Well, I suppose the biggest thing I lived through was the Alice Arribanus in 1992, when anything that could go wrong did go wrong. It went wrong for 12 months, culminating not only in the separation of Charles and Diana, but the Windsor Fire, when an MP Peter Brook, who was then Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, having been briefed not to say anything, because we weren't hiding anything. We just didn't know the extent of the fire, how it was going to be restored, what the cost would be. He went out, first question from a camera, a reporter on television, who's going to pay for it? The government will pay. And from then on, for weeks, the Queen was castigated, because there were all sorts of comments. Every newspaper was having a go. Why should the public pay for it? It so happened that at the end of the day, Queen decided to open Buckingham Palace. 27 million of the 35 million was paid for out of visitor admissions to the palace and to Windsor Castle.

4:03So, you know, it was hard at the beginning, but it was soft at the end. But I suppose the real hard bit, when I joined in 88, Charles and Diana's marriage was going pear-shaped. It really was on the rocks. And we would have program meetings and they wouldn't be talking to each other, sitting opposite each other at the table. And these were hard to manage, and also hard to manage when she was going on solo tours. She decided to do these, some of them with no context, whatsoever. And the King would say to me, as Prince of Wales, what did you do on the tour? What was it for? I didn't have an answer. And it was your job then to fend the likes of us off. How did she deal with that? You were nice people. It wasn't easy. I think the biggest problem was dealing with a paparazzi. And quite a lot of the, there used to be a separation with photographers. Black and white were newspapers, color photographers were magazines and freelancers.

5:04And what used to happen was that when there was a sports day for William and Harry, when they were at school in London at Weatherby, they'd have sports day at Richmond Sports Club. And the ladders would go up against the wall. So there was no privacy. There were no rules about photographing children. This came very much later off of the death of Diana when it became very clear that you couldn't photograph children under the age of 16 without the consent of the parents. So that was difficult to manage. And also difficult to manage. It was one incident in Egypt. Diana was staying at the ambassadors residence. She was swimming. And there were photographers in a block of flats across the road taking photographs literally over the wall. I ended up by banning them from tours. And Diana didn't like that. She didn't like anybody being banned. But you can't have it both ways. You either want your privacy or you don't. But don't say, I want my privacy and then castigate the guy that's banning the photographers. Speaking of which, we know another couple who quite like their privacy, but aren't quite sure what that means.

6:06Yes. I'm not sure the royal family are currently in crisis. Some think they are. What is your reading of the Harry Megan nonsense? As it now must be cool. Thanks to the Ugandan. It's been a step away. Well, is it nonsense, Dickie? What is it nonsense? Well, you know, they cut they breeze in here as if they've never left and expecting to pick up with a left off six years ago. And it is nonsense. It is total nonsense. They're blaming everybody for their ills. They're blaming everybody. Ugandan, you mentioned the moment. Yes, let's just get into that story in case anyone hasn't seen it. Uganda has pulled out of the Invictus Games and Harry, through his people, seems to be suggesting that's because the beginning of the week issued this statement confirming the fact that they are non-working royals. And as far as the prince is concerned, this kind of denigration of their status means that countries like Uganda aren't taking the game seriously enough to participate. Now, I think we can all make of that what we will. But it comes back to the central point that you made at the very beginning of this.

7:10Sometimes palace comms can lose control of comms, especially if you've got a minister outside say, oh, the government's going to put the bill for the Windsor fire. You've also experienced the war of the Walesers where you're having to control the comms of two warring people, two people on the brink of divorce with possibly a third person involved briefing the press. I'm going to interrupt there. Go on. Say a third person. There were four people actually because Diana was having affairs too. Right. But did you know at the time of the war of the Walesers that Camilla was on the scene and that Diana was having an affair? Yes, because Diana would go to the leading sorting office, post office sorting offices at Mount Pleasant. And every time she wrote a letter to a hewitt who was based in Iraq at the time. So we're talking about James Hewitt. James Hewitt. Yes, she'd go to the sorting office just do. I don't know whether she'd find the letter. Yeah, personally, she would go to the sorting office as an experience as a royal visit. What did he explain that Princess Diana turns up at the sorting office in Mount Pleasant?

8:15Yes, she just wanted to make sure. Under the guise of a royal visit to postees to try and find James Hewitt's personal correspondence. No, no, no, no, no, no. She wasn't she wasn't looking for the personal correspondence, but she was going there to make sure that letters were leaving. Lovers letters. Love letters leaving the country. A bit, but Dickie, when loads of journalists. Basically are four bears, Hannah, we're phoning you up going, come on, Dickie. There's a third person in this marriage, isn't there? And I'm talking pre panorama interview. I'm just saying that everybody in Fleet Street had a feeling that all was not well in the Wales marriage and that there may be other people involved. What could you then say to them? You must have had to say no, nothing to see here. There was a very fine line that we weren't to walk over. It was made very clear to us by the family that there is private and there is public and we were only allowed to deal with public. Now, I make this point in the book. That's Kifte Book. On duty with the royals. This is the book. I'm going to show the book as well. Well, not top luggage. Go on, Dickie.

9:15I made a point when I went to get my LVO from the late Queen. Explain what that is. LVO is an Lieutenant Royal Victorian order. It's a special honour bestowed on the elite. It is bespoke by the monarch and the heir to the throne. Yes. And she said to me, I think you deserve this. I don't know why I blurted out, but I said, well, it's a pity the family didn't take note of what was actually going on with the Prince and Princess. And very quietly, it wasn't anger. Very quietly, she said, the family is my problem, not yours. Wow, Dickie, that's quite the exchange. That was quite an exchange. And we carried on talking. That was the end of it. She never told anybody about it. But what did you mean by that? That you felt that the winzers at the time hadn't properly internally dealt with this growing feud and that it then spilled out into the headlines. Whereas they were spilling out. It was spilling out daily into the headlines. And I felt that the family should be doing something.

10:19And whether they were or not, we weren't told. But we weren't allowed to talk about anything in relation to the state of the marriage. As far as we were concerned, and we were told to be concerned, is that the state of the marriage was okay. But it was a same with the Sussexism. We've got this briefing more now between Harriet Megan and the palace. Yeah, more briefing on one side than the other, I would say. So the palace have done this in a very palace way. Dickie, please tell us your thoughts because you were the expert on this. They have done. They have laid down the law, I think, probably safe to say, with this letter to the Lord, Lieutenant's the military, senior stakeholders, key stakeholders, they call it to explain what Harry and Megan are doing back in Britain and how people should treat them. So if, for example, Harry rings the Lord Lieutenant's office, which I'm not sure he would, but if he did, I'm going to do a visit to this charity. They need to know, do we call them your Royal Highness?

11:19Do we put on anything extra? Do I need to go and host it somehow? Like they would for the Royal Family. They have sent this letter clarifying it. But in it, if you're the Sussexes, it feels to them very pointed. They're going over the private citizens. They feel like this is some kind of dig ahead of their security. And they have thoughts on it. They don't want to be known as private citizens. They want to be known as public figures. What else to say? But then we come back to the whole, you know, South Park parody that they're on a world privacy tool. Make your minds up. Well, you are private citizens or you are public figures. This is the thing. This is why people think there's a kind of cake and eat it. But it's not for them to decide whether they're public figures. It's for the public to decide whether they're public figures. They're definitely public figures. Listen, we can all pick them out of a line. How come on? Well, we can pick them out of a line. But you know, going back to what Hannah said about this, this letter was put out by the Lord Chamberlain.

12:19He was only reminding and reiterating what was agreed in January 2020. There's nothing new in it. Nothing you were told. And why Harry is winging? It's always somebody else's fault. Never their fault. Or somebody else's. What's your personal experience of Prince Harry? I don't have much experience of him as an adult. I have no experience of him as an adult. As a kid, he was boystress. He was fun. He was always up for doing things he shouldn't do, being an naughty boy. Well, say, no tear than William. Yes, he was more upfront than William. He then tended to be reserved. He's not so reserved now. No. But Harry was quite wild. I mean, what do you make of the comms around Prince William and Kate, resolutely resisting a reconciliation? The King as a father obviously loves his son and his grandchildren and has extended an olive branch and there's been teas and there's been meetings

13:19and of course there's been the great return back to him. So you've been one meeting. Okay. William and Kate are digging in their hills saying, no, we don't want to be sucked into the Sussex Psycho Drone. Thank you very much. But then I'm wondering whether that might adversely affect his comms if it looks as if William is being almost too stubborn about it. I don't think for a moment William is being stubborn. He's been hurt by Harry. There's no question about that. He's taken on the hurt of the criticism for Catherine. Because they've been quite vocal about Catherine and William is very protective of his wife. And I think that's a good thing. He's very much a family-oriented man and his family are right up there at the top, along with his job. And some days he has difficulty deciding what is more important, the job or the family. He made the decision when she said that she had a cancer.

14:21The family was important. So there's been a lot of hurt. There's been hurt to him. There's been hurt to his wife. And that rebounds on the rest of the family. And he's just not going to bend until Harry apologises and means it. Harry seems to think everybody else should apologise. Yes. But I'm not terribly sure for what? Watching it from our side of the fence. It has felt to me over the last few years that William actually can shoulder quite a lot of criticism. So you brought up when the princess had cancer. Before we were told she had cancer, he missed an event. And he got a lot of criticism for that. And he would rather just absorb that than explain it before he's ready to explain it. And before at the time Catherine was ready to explain it. People who have worked with the Sussexes or have known the Sussexes always tend to say they need to have the last word. And that seems to be the case with this. There's this idea that the King should have put in his letter that there's still beloved members of the family. Which is what the Queen did in the Sandringham summit.

15:22Did they negotiate that at the time in hindsight? Maybe that was one of the conditions for making those announcements. They like and they feel the need, I think, to respond and to correct things. Yes, last word in the public heart. It's a phenomenon. But also the kind of the Sussex thing, it's like a game of ping pong, isn't it? Back and forward, back and forward. Whereas you very much get the impression probably because that's their destiny that the Wales is are able to play a much longer game. Dickie. I mean, do you think the palace is handling the comms around the Great Return? Well, let me give you a little statistic. Yes, please. About the two men, because they are men, not boys any longer. They handle things differently. William mourns his mother, but he mourns her privately. Harry mourns her publicly and hangs on to her co-tails. In everything that he does, it's in his mother's name. And he's got to learn to break free. Morn your mother. Yes, we've all lost parents.

16:22We all mourn our lost parents. But we don't do it in public. And he's got to stop doing it in public before people can really take him seriously. In a world where AI is changing every role in every industry, knowing who actually has deep expertise matters more than ever. Upwork connects you with the highly skilled freelance professionals with proven track records, so you can hire with confidence. Upwork gives your business fast access to highly skilled specialists with deep expertise, so you can fill critical skill gaps, launch projects faster, and scale support up or down without committing to full-time headcount. With Business Plus, you can access the top 1% of talent on Upwork. AI-powered shortlisting delivers a curated shortlist of top freelancers match to your goals in under six hours. No endless searching required. Thousands of growing businesses already trust Upwork to hire highly skilled freelance professionals for everything from one-off projects to ongoing support. It's free to sign up and posting a job is easy.

17:24Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free. That is Upwork.com to connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's UPWORK.com. Upwork.com. Pessimism. It's never going to improve a disconnected healthcare system. Next. So what will? At Optum, we're working every day to connect primary, specialty, and pharmacy care, and tell lower prescription costs. Will we fix it all overnight? No. But we'll wake up trying again and again until healthcare works as one for everyone. That's Healthy Optimism. Learn more at Optum.com. Optum. Hi, it's Brooke DeVar. I'd host of Naked Beauty and I want to talk about how I upgrade my hosting experience. There's a moment just before guests arrive when my home stops feeling like a series of rooms and it becomes an atmosphere. The light settles the airships, and then the beautiful scent of Jasmine, Rosenfig, fill the air. It feels warm and considered. That's what Pura does.

18:24It turns fragrance into environment. A collection of beautiful, clean fragrances all controlled from your phone. Choose your sense of place at Pura.com. I'm just going to give you the statistics from a recent survey by you, Gav, which is interesting. 16% of Britons would like Harry and Meghan to be working royals again, but 51% disagree. So then that begs the question, has the palace got the comms right on this in light of this kind of they said they said, Rao that is ongoing. And as you say, the Sussexes can't help but react to every little thing that is done in royal life. But the public are clearly seeing through this or seeing it for what it is and saying, no, we don't want you to return to the firm in an official capacity, which therefore suggests along with the Wales's superior approval rating to the Sussexes, that there has been criticism of palace comms, but maybe the palace of handled makes it and beyond quite well actually.

19:29I think they have handled it well. They've been up front. They have been secretive about it. I mean, they haven't been secretive about the King's health. If you go back to when Queen was alive, we had time and time again. She has mobility issues. We didn't know what these issues were. Yes. But the King when he went to hospital for an enlarged prostate, it was announced. It almost broke down the the NHS website with a number of inquiries. Then the announcement that he had a cancer, the announcement that Kate was actually, that Catherine was actually forced into making on video that she had a cancer as well. This would never have happened in the Queen's reign. No, I mean, we didn't know that she had cancer until after she died. No, so it's very different. So it comes all handling it well. I mean, the announcement of the prostrate and cancer was a master's role of communications. And the other thing is that the King is very much on board with communications. Because if you remember, he was told right at the very beginning that he could do his constitutional duty,

20:30but he would have to be in Buckingham Palace. He wasn't allowed to go out. So he was allowed to carry on his job as head of state, but not head of nation. Head of nation is galloping around the country. And he very purposely in commuting from Clarence House to Buckingham Palace, driving there, being driven there, rolled the windows down so people could see him. So yes, he had a cancer, but he was okay. And he was responding to treatment because the treatment has now been reduced. Now you look at him. He's still having treatment. And he's dushing around the country like a 25-year-old. There's a theme here, isn't there of sort of steadiness and sturdiness and leadership, and in a country that sometimes feels a bit wobbly at the moment. What is it eight prime ministers in ten years? Exactly. Sussex circus, as we must call it nowadays, cancer in the family, not one, but two senior members of the family. Do you think that the public sort of craves or needs some kind of steady leadership?

21:30How did they, how did the royal family learn what the public want and decide how they respond? They learned by going around the country, doing walkabouts and talking to them. And we have today something that we've never would never have seen on the Queen's reign, King being hugged. Yes. But I remember there was a New Zealand, I think it was a hockey team at a reception at Buckingham Palace. New Zealand women's football team. I saw him hugged actually when we went to Kosovo. And he was extremely popular there with the war widows because he had tried to raise their plight, five thousand husband, sons, brothers, all still missing, never found. And he was mobbed. And it was actually quite an emotional moment. But he's quite tactile. But you're right, Dickie, you would no sooner have hugged Queen Elizabeth the second. But you wouldn't have hugged Charles in the days when... Well, is this a good thing? Do we, do we want touchy-feely royals or do we want royals that are on a pedestal and slightly at a distance? We don't want royals who are aloof, are not a distance.

22:30We want royals that we can communicate to. And he's shown that he can be communicated. Look at the first day he came back to Buckingham Palace after his mother had passed. He went on a walk about a woman pulled him forward to give him a peck on the cheek. His security didn't run forward to stop it. He just let it happen. And that was the sign of how his reign would be, that he would be quite amenable to being hugged, to having been given a peck on the cheek. And he'd hugged him once when he stepped out of the sea and siphonied, didn't they? Do you remember that? He was image. He'd cut out the water of this woman in a bikini. Yeah, that was in the 1970s. I did. She was in paid or encouraged somehow by photographers who wanted this boy of shorts to the media to be responsible for such a thing. Just to get it in the post. Honestly, Dickie. Do we think the monokees in good shape for the next few years? Because we also have surveys suggesting that younger people are particularly disinterested. I think that's the problem, isn't it? You can have people who are arch-royalists, and that's great, and you can have people that are arch-Republicans,

23:33and that's another matter. But isn't the biggest threat to royalty kind of on-wee and boredom, and I don't care either way? It's an interesting point you raise. I think the interest in the monokees is generational. You know, young people, they've got too many other things on their mind. They're on TikTok. They're on their phone. They're texting. They're doing all sorts of things. By the time they get to their 30s, they're sort of, I suppose they were all right, but at the time they get their 40s and 50s, they're very much interested in the monokees. So it moves the generation. But, you know, to talk about how the monokey going to look in the future is a very interesting point, because the king is going to be 78 in November. The queen is nearing 80, near 80 than the king. William and Catherine are going to be there in their 40s. Middle-aged. Middle-aged, Edward and Sophie are in their 60s. So by the time we get to the next reign, that's William. William could well be in his 60s. I hope it's later, rather than sooner, but he could well be in his 60s.

24:36By the time George comes to the throne, he could be nearing near 50 than 40. So, and what's the backup? Well, the other thing have children. And also, we've got all of the time before George takes the throne, Hannah and I were saying earlier. I mean, that picture of him at Eaton, that boy is an attractive looking lad. And I just looked at that photograph of him at Eaton, a brilliant news letter on it saying, oh, as any grown, and that's absolutely sentiment, you see a boy becoming a man before your very eyes. And that makes those children more captivating and interesting. But of course, the parents want to protect them from too much media focus. That is what I found so interesting about George Eaton is it's the first time I saw him sort of in a semi-public role. He's still a private child he's going to school. Those photographs, he looked like he didn't mind posing for them. He looked like he was enjoying himself. When he walked across the school yard at Eaton, he was a little bit ahead of Mum and Dad. He was the one who lent in for the handshake and made the small tour. He was kind of leading the way. And it's the first time we've seen that.

25:37We used to see this shy little boy and I used to feel, goodness is this the right thing to do. Sometimes having him sort of clearly. He was a lot more on his father's words when he was a man. Do you remember that? I remember that. I remember that. Well, he was a lot more upfront. He's not shy like his father was at the same age. His father was developed as developed with age. And he was living through a pretty rotten time with his parents at war, one living down at high grove. The other were living at Kensington Palace and the two boys being shunted between the two. It wasn't a happy scenario. But George looked very happy. I think he's very happy to be at Eden. And this is the start of the children flying the nest. Yes. Oh, don't say that. Well, my youngest is the... I'm trying to hold onto these children for as long as possible. But you make a point. All I'm saying is if you want to capture a generation, then obviously you have to do it with similar aged people. And if the George becomes, I don't know, rather than give examples like the Timothy Shalamey of his era.

26:40I know that's a stretch. But remember that period where William... People had posters of Prince William up on their walls. Will's mainly... Including possibly Kate Middlethal, although he should have died. So that could just be an interesting one to watch. It's like the Beckham kids or anyone's kids, frankly. You sort of watch them grow up in the media gaze. And as they get older, they seem more relatable to their own generation and all the rest of it. Let's just move on slightly. Dickie. Tell us about your interactions with Prince Andrew. You really wanted to... Yeah. All right. It's in the book. I know. It's in the book. Gotta read the book. I was in the office. There was a colleague there who just started two weeks before who was going to be Andrew's press secretary. Anyway, Andrew phoned. And I picked up the phone. It was a garden party happening. It was a garden party for the usual 8,000-dollar people amongst them. Were something like 100 Vickers who were there for a conference that happens every 10 years at Lambeth Palace.

27:46And he said, I've got a good idea for a photograph. I said, yes. He said, get some chairs in the garden. And I will tell, because it'll be a good picture of her majesty. Always not my mother, her majesty, with all the clergy. So you get that sorted out. When you've done it, tell me and I will tell her majesty. I said, no. Is that a big gift? It's not your garden party. If her majesty wants chairs out for a photograph, she will tell the master. The master will tell me and I'll organize it. But until that happens, it's not going to happen. But that went down well. It did go down well. It went down with the phone. He slammed the phone down. Oh my God. So I picked up the phone and my colleague said, what are you going to do? I said, I'm going to call him back. What are you going to say to him? Listen. And I called him back and he said, yes. What do you want? I'm so glad you weren't around when I was hanging you to ask different questions. I said, don't you ever slam the phone down on me like that again?

28:48And I slammed the phone down. Did you? Yes. And my colleague said, you'll get fired for that. And I said, no. I don't tell anybody. Cards and breweries don't tell when they've been had. Oh my God. I've imagined. Andrew, have you ever heard one of these? Bang! I bet he has actually. He's so good at everything. He's so good at everything. Yes, he was. He was an elaborate royal. Who was your favourite royal? We're taking the queen out because that's everyone's favourite royal. Who's the favourite royal? I had several favourites. Go on. For different reasons. Unlike Charles. Yes. He was honest and he would listen to advice. Not necessarily take it, but he would listen and weigh it up. Unfortunately, when he was Prince of Wales, he tended to listen to the last person that spoke to him. So he was a favourite. Diana was a favourite. I got on well with her. I'd had tea with both of them three days before the wedding.

29:48Just the three of us. How about biscuits? Yeah. What was she like then? She was just a girl. She was 20. She was very naive. I suppose you're terrified of this. She said, it's a bit daunting. And it would be a bit daunting because people were already camping out on the mall. Yes. When you've got probably about a million people aligning the route and hundreds of millions watching on television. And even Charles was concerned about it. Yes, he'd been brought up with the grand ceremonial, but this was something that he'd never really experienced. So he felt daunted as well. When you saw them then, the very beginning of their... Oh, they were tactile. Were they? Were they in love then? They were in love. Because he came out with that ridiculous, whatever love I mean. Yeah, I've been in love with each other. I'm going to apologise for him on that one. Because the rares are always brought up not to show emotion. I mean, you go back to Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother, go back to the Queen. Go back to all of them. They never showed emotion. You know, when the baton was assassinated.

30:48There were dry eyes. Charles ran a lump in his throat when he was delivering the eulogy in Westminster Avenue. But there was a lump. Well, think about William and Harry following the coffin. They have to understand it. So they were taught not to show emotion. It's only since the death of the Queen that this whole thing of emotion has been expressed. When Charles called in Camilla Darling and Camilla will take his arm. Which never would have happened before. I mean, you cast your mind back. You would never have happened before. They're more open. They're more human. That's true. William and Kate rolling around on that video in the sand dunes. Yeah. It's a generational thing. Yeah. Charles also, I think, has a personal instinct. He sort of deflects and he quite often makes a final comment. The press office has to sort of scramble. So he'll often say, you know, I'm looking forward to come back. If God lets me. Yes. If I'm still alive. And then everybody goes, no, no, he doesn't mean that. He doesn't mean that.

31:48It doesn't love me. He's in big, it feels philosophical. Strangely. And with you saying, whatever you love means, don't show emotion. And him being bounced into something like that. He really didn't know how to handle it. Yes. But at that tea, they were tactile. They were dialing this and dialing that. And they did love each other at the beginning. But you know, no marriage is made in heaven. Marriage is a job. And you've got a word of it. So romantic, Dickie. No, I guess it is a job because, you know, dear, I say the loss and the passion wears off. And you've got to work at it. You've got children who interfere. Yes. And the whole family has got to work at it. How many times have you been married to a kid? I think you want. How many times have you been married to a kid? I've been married twice. Second time for 42 years. There you are. All right. I think we're going to be Dickie back free. Marriage can't be. Marriage can't be. Marriage can't be. Marriage is a job. Marriage is a job. Bringing up children is a job. And it's certainly a job. I know, but if you think you've been in the middle of the war

32:48of the Wales, you pretty much see it all. Dickie, let's give you a book, a final plug. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Outdated technology isn't going to improve a disconnected healthcare system. next. So what will? At Optum, we wake up every day and work for better. We call it healthy optimism. It's how we use insights and technology to help providers focus less on paperwork and more on

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