Amy Van Dyken: 6x Olympic Gold Medalist and Disability Advocate

0:00Miran's in issue. The greatest festival of our contemporary society, the Olympic Games, is about to begin. This is gonna be close. Oh! They're all completely gasped! They've given it everything on the global budget! Oh yeah! Go! Oh! Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant! But that isn't a Olympic champion yet. Ready? Hello and welcome to another episode of Keep the Flame Alive, the podcast for fans of the Olympics and Paralympics. If you love the games, this is the show for you. I'm your host, Jill Jaros. joined as always by my lovely co-host, Alison Brown. Alison, hello. How are you? Hello. I am covered in mosquito bites. Oh no! And it got me thinking about track and field athletes. Because they're on field. There's grass everywhere. How do they not get bitten alive? I don't know, but that's going on the list. Because that's a great question.

1:01You know, because they're not covered. It's not like the mosquito would have to go through a lot of clothing. Mostly, you know, they're in shorts. And no socks and all those things. Can you imagine having a giant mosquito bite on your ankle and trying to race? That would be horrible. Do they just outrun the mosquitoes? What is there... How did they do this? I don't know, but that's excellent questions, which led me to think about what about sailing? How do fish get in the way? To see we get in the way? Yes. Do something like jump up and slap you in the face every once in a while. I don't know. It must. It must. That must just be standard procedure to get hit by a fish occasionally. Again, are they moving so fast that the fish don't... The fish just can't keep up. Oh, man.

2:02Well, I don't know how to say that. Well, I was going to say speaking of fast and can't keep up. Yes, we are speaking today with one of the fastest swimmers on record, Amy Van Dyken. Amy won a total of six gold medals over two Olympics at Lanta in 1996 and Sydney 2000. And became the first American woman to win four gold medals at a single Olympics. In 2014, Amy's life changed when she became paralyzed in an ATV accident. We spoke with her, we... You got to speak with her. I was doing storm recovery and you thankfully stepped in. And you had this fantastic conversation. I am so jealous that you got to do this. We spoke with her about her swimming career, her post retirement work and broadcasting, and her life after her accident. Take a listen. Amy Van Dyken, thank you so much for joining us. I'm excited to get to talk to you. I'm so excited for you guys having me on. Thank you so much. So we're going to start with going back in time to the Olympics.

3:04We're going to talk at Lanta a little bit. We've actually been talking at Lanta on the show. So it's fresh in our brains. But why... This is kind of a two-parter. Why were you good at sprints and why did you like sprints? Because those are two different questions. Those are two very different questions. I think the reason that I was good at sprints, I think it was really because of my asthma. I really couldn't swim anything over a 200. You know, when I was competing, I was at 63% lung capacity. And that was on a really good day. So I think like the 50 was great because I didn't really have to take a breath, but I took a breath. And I think the reason that I liked them is because I just think my body type is fit for them. You know, I'm six feet tall. I was thinner. I can build muscle very quickly. And I think that I just loved them because it was fast. There was a lot of excitement around them. There's a lot of nervous energy. And I somehow thrive on that even today.

4:05So you did take a breath in the 50. I did. And I just did it to see where I was. So I could see it was weird. I don't know how I had my head. If you watch my butterfly, I always had my head turned a little bit. I email Stuart. But so I think I did that also in freestyle because I could always see to my right, but I couldn't see to my left. So I would take a breath just to see where I was. I know it sounds weird. Like you could do anything about it if you were behind. Well, to be fair, sometimes you adjust. You're right. And you're brain. You're right. And I was known. And you know, when I watch back, summer sanders is like, Amy always builds into the 50. And I think that I did. And so I think, you know, that was kind of why when I took the breath, I could maybe kick it into another gear. Now, maybe should I have that gear the entire time? Yeah, probably. It's only 24 seconds at that time. Now it's going to be 22 seconds coming up here. But, but yeah, so, you know, that's the only reason why I took a breath. So you mentioned the change in the times.

5:06And I did want to ask you about that because the 50 has gotten significantly faster if you look at percentage wise. Yeah. More so than some of the others. Is that change in training? Is that change in technique? What changes do you see happening in the 50, particularly? Yeah, it's definitely a lot of training. I mean, we used to train every morning, every afternoon, you know, two to and a half hours at a pub. And, you know, I remember when I was training with John T Skinner, we would do, you know, four hundred's best average. And we would do like ten of them. Like, why, you know, there's no need for a sprinter to do that. So I think as well as the better technique that they have, you know, doing the fifth stroke, the underwater, which is a lot faster than swimming on top of the water. I really think that that's helped. But I think also they're not training the speed out of sprinters anymore, like we used to do. I mean, it's very, very easy to do. I know my coach John Maddo's at CSU. When I left to go to the training center, he told John T said, just don't train the speed out of her.

6:09So it is possible to do it. And they're not doing it anymore. And I love it. So the idea being that they would sort of do longer distances with sprinters, building endurance, which in essence, you don't need. Yeah, exactly, exactly. I mean, we were trying to build endurance for my hundred free, my hundred fly. But at the end of the day, you just need to be able to have that back half speed. So with how they're training sprinters now with more crossfit type exercises in the gym, which I think is so applicable to swimming. And then sprinting them more, having them race more. I saw Greg being talking about that that, you know, and we talked about this at the training center. It's weird when you're going from training all these yards to going to a shave and taper meat. And your body freaks out a little bit about how fast it's going. So now they're racing more. And so their body does not freak out. Their body knows exactly what they're doing. And they're getting used to that lactic acid build up. And especially, you know, if you're like a summer Macintosh, who is going from the 200 fly to the 400 I am or the 400 free.

7:16I mean, it really does help a lot more when you kind of rest those muscles. I get used to it. So you mentioned summer Macintosh who even swims more races than you did. Yeah. You raised a lot. You did a lot of races in Atlanta. What was that? Was that just you liked all of them? You were good at all of them? Or was there more of a tactical thinking behind it? There was no tactical thinking. The thought process, honestly, Alison was this. I knew that I would probably make the 100 free in a relay, right? You have to remember I'm going against Jenny Thompson, angel Martino, who were powerhouse sprinters. So I wanted to make the relay. And then the 100 fly I swam because there was nothing in the middle of the 100 free the 50 free. So I swam that there was a shot in Hades that I was going to make the 100 butterfly because again, you know, you had summer. You had angel and then you had Missy Hyman, who was up and coming and an amazing 100 butterfly.

8:17And so I thought, well, I'll swim that just to have something in the middle. I'll probably make the 50 free little did I know that I was going to have the meat of my life and qualify for all those events. And I asked, Johnny, I was like, what do you think we do? And he goes, you made him you swim him. Let's go. So we started training for all of that. And it was just pure luck that I ended up with the four gold medals. And I always tell people I would rather be lucky than good. So the trials were great. The Olympics were even better. Were you aware of the record being no other American woman had won four gold medals? Was that said to you at the time? No. And as a matter of fact, email was kind of new back then in the early 90s. And so I remember John TV being like, I don't want you to check your email. Like get off the internet. Just stay off the TV. Don't listen to anything. And so I didn't listen to anything. I started to really think of him as a career woman. And then he didn't tell me. He told all the other coaches not to tell me.

9:19So when I came to the pool that day. And that I was warming up. And I saw all these signs forever gold. Amy. I was like, oh, that's really sweet. They think I can win one more. Oh, they're so kind. That's great. And I didn't hit me until I went to the mix zone and I was doing an interview. And they were like, how do you feel about the record? And I was like, oh, the Olympic record that I said. I was like, oh, you know, it was a great time. I've been working on my start. I'm like, did I just drop an F-bomb on live television? So like I stopped talking and just smiled because that's gonna make that better, right? And he goes, no, no, no, you're the first American woman to win four golds and one games. I literally looked in the camera and I was like, shut up. Like I could not believe it. And then to find out later when all was said and done that I was the most decorated athlete, male or female. And now, you know, I texted Phelps when I found this one out the other day. I was like, I got you. But I've won the most gold medals on American soil. So that's wild. That I mean, think about, you know, like Carl Lewis, think about all these other athletes.

10:20And but they did them away from home. So it's kind of cool. Would you be excited if that gets broken next time around in LA? So here's what I wanna happen. I want whoever wins the 50 free because that'll be the second American woman to win the 50 free ever. I want them to be the one that breaks it. I want to be on that pool deck. And I want to be the first person to give that human being a huge hug. You know, records are made to be broken. And I think sometimes we lose sight of that. But that's what they're there for. They're there for a goal for somebody else. And so I wanna be that very, very first person to congratulate them. It's about dang time. It's 30 years. Besides the medals and the races themselves, what are your memories of Atlanta? Oh my gosh. The Olympic Village going through and seeing all the different countries flags sitting down to eat with people from different countries. The one thing that I loved and I still have this picture,

11:20it was on the cover of USA Today. And you know when you watch the Olympics, it's a clean pool deck. So there's only the athletes and the officials. So the picture was taken from high up. And it was of me and Francesca Van Almsek right after the 50 free. She's from Germany. She was an amazing sprinter. And we're just hugging. And it was just so symbolic of how those games were. Like the things I take away most from the Olympics is the friendships that I made, the connections that I made, the people that I got to talk to, you know, walking through and having more screen in Sydney, be like, Amy Van Dyken. And I'm like, you're more a screen. How do you know who I am? This is so cool. So like those are the best memories for me. Are the people that, you know, when we would have our shave parties in the rooms when we would get our nails painted, red, white and blue right before the very first day. Like those are the memories that I have. And they're so special. I love them so much. Okay, so the shave parties are not a myth.

12:20No, they're not. They're not. And when you're in college and high school, you order pizza in. So everyone's there and their speedo. We're all shaving pizza, rocket out to music. So yeah, the shave parties are not a myth. They happen all the time. And you're always like, I would be like, Hey, Derek, Derek, can you get my back for me? Ha, ha, ha. So after Atlanta, a lot of things came your way. You know, there were the SPs. There was glamour magazine. There was you were a star. How was that adjustment? That was wild. So I went into the Olympic games and I remember laughing with Janet Evans. And I was like, so funny. Like nobody even knows I'm here. Like and she laughed and she goes, oh, that's a good thing. I was like, okay, well, I guess, but you know, I made the Olympics. So and then afterwards, I had to go everywhere with security. I remember being in Times Square and looking up and seeing my milk ad, like just a whole building size

13:21of my milk ad. And I was like, what the actual heck is going on right now? So it became a lot. I will say it was a lot of fun. And I got to meet some really cool people. And I relished every moment of it because I just felt like anybody who had the guts to come up and say something to me, like good on them. You know, that's really hard. I remember when I was a fan of John L.A., I couldn't speak in front of the man. It was absolutely mortifying. And my husband was teammates with him and they used to go snowmobiling together. And there's Tom's girlfriend going, ah, ah. So I always thought that it was great when people did that. But it was the change of life. You know, the Broncos who I've been big fans of, even before I met my husband growing up in Colorado, they won their first Super Bowl. And I wanted to go to the parade. And I remember they actually had cops at parked at the park behind my house to make sure I didn't leave because they were like, we can't secure you in this area. So it was wild. I couldn't do a lot of the things that I wanted to do. But at the same time, we were getting swimming out there.

14:23Swimming was more visible. And so for me, that was the win. I loved it. I thought it was really great. More people were paying attention to swimming. Now correct me on the timeline. Were you still in college at this point? No. So when I went to my first Olympics, I was 23. And I remember everyone called me grandma and Amanda Beard in all of her cute, lovely, knitted 14. When we were all done, she comes up to me. She goes, Amy, we're going to go get tattoos. You want to come with us. And I was like, absolutely, she goes, great. Because I can't get a tattoo unless my mom signs for me. So you're going to have to pretend to be my mom, OK? I love her very much. But you didn't retire. You were still swimming through all of this. So how did training change when all of a sudden you've got four gold medals? And no one can talk to you because you're so famous? Well, I would still swim with John T. or I would go up to Colorado State.

15:24And I would swim with that team. But when I was on the road, which was a lot, my agent, Janie Miller, who's still out and about doing Simone Biles and all the people, she made sure that there was always a pool that I could train in before my event and after my event. So that's what I would do. And we just made it work. And John T would send workouts. And I would do the workouts by myself. It was kind of, it was very, I will say this, having a lot of fame is very lonely. And you have to get used to being by yourself a lot. And I love people. So for me, that was kind of hard. But and training by myself was hard, because I loved harassing my teammates and all the fun things. You also started getting a lot of injuries in this time period between Atlanta and Sydney. What was going on? Well, the first one I was in the weight room when I was showing off for a very cute volleyball player. And he was like, oh, I heard you were strong.

16:24And I was just warming up. I'm like, I am strong. So I slapped on all my weight. And I had the bar over my head. And then I just kind of tweaked my shoulder a little bit. It dislocated and kind of popped out through my armpit. And yeah, so we got, we got that one fixed. So I ended up tearing my labor. And we didn't really know it. So I kept training through it. And I remember there was a swim meet. And I can't remember which one it was. I think it was like the Oklahoma City dash for cash. And it was my favorite swim meet of all time. And John T and I talked about it. And I couldn't go. I couldn't race. So when they were gone, I ended up going to the neurosurgeon for the Colorado Rockies. And he did all the MRIs and everything. And he's like, you tore your labor. I'm like, pretty good. So ended up having surgery. So they repaired the labor. And they did a thermal capsule reduction because it had popped out so many times. So they shrunk up my elbow or my shoulder. And it was funny because I woke up. And they're like, how are you feeling? And I'm like, my left arm is sore. And they're like, that's because we were testing it to make sure it was even with the other one.

17:25And so it took 18 months to get back in the pool for a race. And that very first race, I did it again. And I went to the doctor and they were like, yeah, no. And at this time, I was with my husband, my dead boyfriend, now husband, who was playing for the Broncos. So I went to the Broncos doctors. And they were like, yeah, you're probably done. You're like, you're never, I don't think you're going to be able to swim. We're just going to try to get you to be able to pick up kids if you want to. And I was like, I'm sorry, have we not met? Do you not know who I am? Don't tell me what I can and can't do because I will go ahead and do it. And so I left the training center at that time because I knew that we couldn't get ready fast enough. But I knew John Matos could get me ready for at least the 50 free. And that's kind of all we were looking at. It's just the 50 free. We would do the 100, but I couldn't swim butterfly anymore, which was really heartbreaking. And so I went to Olympic trials. And if you look every time I'm on the awards podium, I've got a tens unit on my shoulder and ice. So every, but it's my right arm. So every time I went to shake the hand of a dignitary,

18:27my hand was just going like crazy. So yeah, I was like, ah, and yeah, it was wild, but it took a lot between prelims and finals to get me ready to be able to race finals. And so that's ultimately why I ended up retiring was just because the injuries were too much. How do you handle the mental load of that? Because that's a lot to take on and then still continue to train. Yeah, it was a lot. And it was a lot of pain. I remember just taking, you know, anti-inflammatories at the time it was viox. Now we know that that's really bad for you. So it's off the market. But I was, you know, taking that all the time. I was just trying to do whatever I could in the pool. And it was super hard because here I am at a college. And these girls are just kicking my butt in practice. And it was so disheartening sometimes, but I just had to look at the end goal. Like I just needed to swim one length of the pool as fast as I could and see what would happen.

19:29And so at this time, Dara Torres is now making her comeback and swimming lights out. So now I've got, you know, I think Angel had retired at that point. So now I've got Jenny and Dara. And I'm like, there's not a chance that I'm going to make this 50 free, but we're going to go for it. And so, you know, being at Olympic trials was a different trials than it was in 96, you know? I was a season that people were all looking at me to see what I could do. Meanwhile, I'm just sitting there crying, but before and after every race because I was in so much pain. So to be able to make two relays in the 50 free, like, I mean, thank you, God, because that's the only way that I made it, you know, there was no other reason. I shouldn't have made that team. But you did. And you get to Sydney and you don't do so bad. Not great, not bad. I mean, I walk away with two more gold medals in a fourth place. So Allison, if you look at my career, it's wild. My very first Olympic race, the 100 free I got fourth. I got gold for the next races.

20:30And then my very last race, the 50 free I got fourth. And it wasn't a bad fourth. I went the same time that I went in Atlanta. So it wasn't like so heartbreaking and all of that. Like it was heartbreaking because it was over. And I knew it was over. But the time I was happy with, you know, I was happy that my teammate got on the podium. But, you know, it was also one of those where I was also happy because I knew that I had a great career and I knew it was time for someone else to take over. So you look at that retirement. What did you expect your retirement? It's funny to say, you know, retiring at 27. But what did you expect that next part of your life to look like at that point? Nothing like what it looks like. I thought I was going to go back to school, get my degree. I was going to teach high school biology to deaf students, which is just kind of a weird thing to want to do. But my second language was sign language. I took it at University of Arizona. I got really embedded with the deaf community and they are amazing people, funny, very off color,

21:32just like I am. So we got a long break. That's what I wanted to do. But then I started traveling around again, start doing more things and then the whole media thing just happened. It was a fluke, Allison. So like there was a local station and their sportscaster was gone for a week and they were like, let's do celebrity sportscasters. So they had some Broncos and some Colorado Rockies do what they asked to do it. I was like, sure, I'll come in and do it. So as soon as I'm done, the news director comes in and grabs me and says, I need to talk to you. And I was like, okay. And he said, we want to hire you for the 2002 Olympics in Salt Lake City. We're going to cover them. Do you want to go? And I was like, sure. So I go, we do all the prep. We do everything now mind you. I've never in my life done a live shot. Ever, never. There I am. I've got my IFBN, the microphone, the camera's going, the lights on, it's dark because it's early morning. I was doing the morning show and the night show. And I was like, oh, we're going to do a practice.

22:33And I hear, all right. We're going to Amy live in three, two, one, go. And I was like, oh, so trial by fire. And then after that, it just started progressing. And I just kept getting hired to do things. And all of a sudden, I'm a sideline reporter for NFL on Fox. And then, I just keep doing it. I become the only female voice on Fox Sports Radio at that time as a co-host. And that was awesome. And then that just kept going. And then I got injured. So then it kind of took a back seat. But we're back at it again, girl. Hold that thought, because we are going to get to that and what's going on right now. But I did want to ask about being a woman in male-dominated sports casting, because it's something that we deal with all the time. And what was that like for you being on Fox of all places and dealing with the NFL? Yeah. And all the sports in my co-host was a former World Series

23:35champion. So we did all the sports. And the thing is, is that I studied the sports I didn't know. And I became very, very knowledgeable. Men had a really hard time with it at first. When we were first on the air, we made jokes that if my Twitter feed didn't call me the C word, at least four times that week. And my life didn't get threatened at least once. We weren't doing our job. I remember getting hung up on all the time. And I'm like, why are they angry? Because they just figured out they don't know football or they figured out a woman knows more about football than them. I'm always kind of snarky. And I always kind of brush it off. As we progressed, the men would stop asking my co-host questions and start asking me questions about sports. So it kind of switched. And now you see women in sports all the time. And it is so awesome to see because they are so knowledgeable. And you can say, well, they didn't play football. OK, well, maybe they played flat football. Maybe they learned football with their dad on the sofa,

24:35like I did. So they're very, very knowledgeable. And I love that women are now getting looked at for more opportunities in the sports world. It's not saying it's easy for women in the sports world at all, as you know, Allison. I mean, it's very, very hard. We have to prove ourselves above and beyond the men. We have to prove that we know 100 times more than they do about anything. Because you will get quizzed. You will get tested. And you have to be able to give those answers, articulate it well, and let people know that you know your stuff. But you know what? I think it's a blessing that we're able to do it now. And you know, have the first female play by play and football has been amazing. I love it. I think that it's so good. And I wish it would change to where people didn't look at your gender. They just looked at you as a human being and what you know and what you can teach someone else. You needed to get a thick skin pretty quick. Did you have it or did it come to you?

25:40No, it had to come to me. I did not have a thick skin. I was that person where I was like, I want everyone to like me. And then I get on social media and I realize, nobody likes me. And so we just ran with it. And that's why we made the joke about the seawort and the death threats. Because I did get called the seawort all the time. And the FBI was actually following my Twitter feedback in the day. So it was pretty gnarly. But I now have a thick skin. And now when I get comments back that are just a little snarky, I either snark back or say something kind. It depends on what kind of mood Amy's in that day. And you know, I just take it with a grain of salt. And I'm like, listen, it's just someone having a bad day needing someone to vent off to. So here we are. So you're doing all this reporting. You're married. Life is good. And then you have an accident. I don't know how much detail you want to go into what happened or how squeamish I'm going to be. So we're going to try this. Let's try it. We'll try it.

26:41So it's 2014. Yes. Yes. And it's an ATV accident. It was. And it was a weird accident because we had been out that day tree bashing. And I'd fallen over a bunch of times. Nothing happened. I think I got some scratches. But that night we were up in the mountains in Arizona and we had a house in a golf course community. So you either walk or take your ATV or your golf cart. Like nobody drives. And I always wore five of solido heels because I loved them. And I could at six feet. And then I was like, I could look my husband in the eye and be like, and no, put that down. So we were going to walk because it was like a quarter of a mile away. But of course, me with my big girl shoes as we called them, we couldn't do it. So my husband wanted to take his truck. And I was like, they we've been living in Los Angeles. Like I need to feel fresh air on my face. So it's just you take your motorcycle. I'll take my ATV. We'll be fine. So we went into the restaurant. And the thing I remember is I had trout and steam broccoli.

27:43I don't know how that's relevant to anything. But it's the thing I remember. I remember pushing in my chair. But that's where my memory stops. My husband normally would have taken off in front of me and had he done that, I wouldn't be here because he wouldn't have found me. He said that he was messing with his motorcycle. He was like, babe, I'll meet you at home. Go ahead. So he said, I took off and I was going straight. And he said there was no movement, no noise, and not even a flick of a brake light. I hit a curb like you have in the parking lot. Flue over a six foot cliff. My back wrapped around a tree backwards. I landed, the ATV landed on my head. And he came running over and I was faced down. And he could see from his angle that my back was really broken. So there was a doctor who had been there at dinner and he saw the whole thing, but he had been drinking. So he couldn't do anything. And so he called 911. And it turns out that my first responder was the guy who owned the CrossFit box

28:45that I was at that day. And I was actually talking to him earlier that day. So he gets there. He calls flight for life. When my husband gets down, he sees I'm not breathing, too. So he gently rolls me over and lifts up my neck. And I start convulsing and my eyes went two different directions for quite a while. He says probably four minutes. And then flight for life comes. They get me stable enough to put me in the chopper. They get me in there. And my first responder, DJ, he was like, I just so you know, her brain injury is so bad, she probably will not remember who you are. So my husband had to drive four and a half hours with that thought in his head. And I get flown to a level one trauma center in Scottsdale. And I get there. I don't remember any of this. The surgeon, and this is interesting because I've been in the hospital many times sensed with other issues with paralysis. And run into some of my nurses that were on my trauma team. And they said, thank goodness that your surgeon was on that night. And I've asked a few times like why?

29:46And they said, well, because he was gnarly. So he was embedded with the Navy seals. Like he was a young neurosurgeon ready to rock and roll. And they said, had the other surgeon been there, he would have just made me comfortable. We all know what that means, right? So I remember right before I go into the operating room, and my surgeon is holding up his phone. And he's like, you're not understanding Amy, this is your X-ray. I have the best cardiothoracic surgeon that I can find. And he's going to be in there with me. I'm going to do my best to get you out of that operating room. But I don't know if I can. So when I dislocated, one of my vertebrae was, they call it a nanometer. It was a nanometer away from my aorta. So if I would have been moved wrong or anything, I wouldn't be here. So I remember going into the operating room. And I remember operating rooms from, you know, shoulder and stuff. And they were very loud and music was playing, but this one was silent. And everyone was moving very methodically. And I remember I looked over and I saw four people standing there with waiters on, because it was really bloody surgery.

30:47And they all had igloo coolers. And I remember thinking about when I was nice to you. And Allison, this is the weirdest feeling ever. To be like, I'm here, but four people who were called, who needed a heart, a liver, a kidney, were called and said, we've got one for you. And then they were told, no, we don't. So that whole juxtaposition was very, very weird. But I spent three weeks in ICU. And then I got in my first wheelchair and I was like, what's wrong? So you wake up after the surgery. What did they tell you at that point? Pardon me, they had told me that I had died a few times in my accident, which I did know. I did know that. No one had to tell me how to paralyzed. I knew that from the second I woke up because I knew that people, there was at least three people every half an hour that would come to switch me from my right side to my left side. I knew I couldn't move.

31:48I knew I was getting lots of fluids. I didn't have to tinkle. I knew the other one didn't have to happen. I knew I was paralyzed. But knowing that I had died so many times in that accident, I was just happy to be alive and I was OK. And there was a 72 hour period after the spinal surgery where you can go into spinal shock and die. They can't stop it. So they were keeping my blood pressure super high and all the things that they do. And I just remember pardon me. Pardon me. And I just remember being happy that I was there. My book club came in and we were told to be quiet that the ICU was not a sorority. And I tried to make the best of it, but I knew my life was going to be completely different. I didn't know really how different it was going to be in those moments, but I just knew I wasn't going to be able to walk anymore. So you're facing that. And do you immediately go into Amy Van Dyke and Gold Medalist? I can conquer anything.

32:51Or something in between of five stages of grief. Like where was your head going through this process, especially those three weeks in the ICU? I just thought to myself, this is another Olympic race. Get yourself ready, prepare yourself. I didn't have the five stages of grief until after I got out of the rehab hospital and I was back at home and then it happened. But while I was there, I just thought when I go to the physical therapy, when I go to the occupational therapy, I am going to be the best at it that I can be. And what's really interesting, Allison, is that when I was there, I would see a lot of people give up on themselves in the therapy sessions because we would do group and then we would do individual. So when we were in the group, they gave up on themselves. And I remember thinking, thank God, I trained so hard and so long and I know what my body can do. I know in my mind is going to tell me that my body needs to stop, but I know when to keep pushing.

33:51And so I think I was really, really lucky to have been able to have that background because a lot of people didn't have it and they were in the rehab hospital months longer than I was. I was released pretty early. What did you think your life was going to look like when you got out of that hospital? That was, I mean, normal, but I was going to be in a wheelchair. That's what I thought. That's what I thought. I got a very rude awakening very quickly on, you know, I woke up and I was having a lot of problems doing what we call our bowel program. You have to teach your body when to go. And I remember waking up the first morning that I was here and well, I didn't have a problem with my bowel program. And it was just horrible. And then, you know, you have to deal with the bladder situation, you have to deal with, you know, your diaphragm is partially paralyzed. You have to deal with all this other stuff. And, you know, not only that, I'm one of the lucky ones where I have severe pain from my belly button,

34:53the top of my belly button, all the way down to my tippy toes. 24, 7, all the time, it's never stopped. And so having to deal with that. Also learning how society treats the disabled community was really disheartening, really, really bad. I did have a friend though, Dave Deniston, who I swam with. He almost made the Olympic team in 2000. He was a brushstroker. He dated my sister in high school. He had been injured years before me. So I would call him all the time and be like, is this normal? How am I going to get through this? When is this going to stop? So I really think that without him, I would probably still be floating in the wind. But thank goodness for this swimming community we're always there for each other. And he really helped me out. And it took a while. It took a few years before I was like, all right, here we go. This is the new normal. We know we're going to be in pain all the time. We know that your bladder is just a pilot crap. And it's not going to cooperate with you at all.

35:54You know that sometimes if you go out to Taco Bell, you better run home just in case, because you don't know when it's going to happen. But I went out and as soon as I got my stuff together, I joined a gym for the disability community. There's a lot of disabled veterans there, which helped me so much. I joined the WheelWod team, which is a CrossFit team, ended up being the second-fittest-seated female athlete on the planet one year. I rock climb. I went snow skiing, which I love, water skiing, which I love. I've done pretty much anything. I've got a mountain bike out in my garage that I take out all the time. So I have learned how to adjust, just like how you learn to adjust to a competitor that's next to you. I've learned to adjust my life. And I will tell you what, after going through the grief and all of that, I have got an amazing life. I have got amazing friends, amazing family. So I'm super, super lucky.

36:54But everything now is, I won't say everything is awesome, but I do have bad moments. And I just make them moments. I can't make them my whole day, because I know that life is short. And so I don't want to be in a really bad mood. And then something happened, and then on my headstone, here lies Amy, she was a great swimmer and kind of a dick. So I want to change that. So I try to get out of those bad moods as quickly as I can so that I can put my best foot forward and really have a great life. Because if you live in misery, it just kind of keeps piling up and piling up. So you've got to smile at least once a day. Have you ever considered competing in power sport? So people ask me that, Allison, right when I was done. My answer is no, no, no, hell no, because I got injured at 41. There's no way I could train anymore. Plus you do not want to see a 41-year-old or now 53-year-old in a speedo. Like God did not make a speedo for an older woman.

37:58There are other power sports. You can parasit ski. And then everything is covered. I could have, Allison, however, when you watch the Paralympics, those people are flying down that hill. And there is no way. I'm like, dilly-dallying. I'm just like, pup-pup-pup-pup-pup. So happy to be there. And then grab a glass of wine when it's all over. That's how I like to ski now. And I love to watch the Paralympics. I think it's amazing. I had read that you were involved in a bionics research. So let's talk about that a little bit, because you were able to take a few steps, take steps. Talk about that. Yeah. So when I got home from Colorado, when I got back to Arizona, I continued my physical therapy. And they put me in an exoskeleton. And it was hilarious, because you stand up and it makes all these mechanical noises. And you're in a hallway where doctors and nurses

38:59are walking back and forth, because you're in a hospital, and you're going to walk the hallway. And every time I did this, all the doctors and nurses would look at me. So I'm like, I don't want people to stare at me. So I'd be like, I'll be back. And then the machine would help you walk. And it was really, really cool. But it got to the point where I was doing so well that they actually put me in braces. And there was one day where I took by myself 50 steps. And I remember thinking to myself, like, I'm wanting to do the math, but also I don't do math. That's not my jam. Like, how many strokes did I take in my lifetime? And none of those compared to those 50 steps I took. Like, no other feeling, no other metal, no other anything, because I was not at that moment trying to be something good for my country. I was fighting to get my life back. And so it was awesome. It was so much fun. Through that, I've been able to do things with Apple.

39:59If you notice now, they have a wheelchair setting. So myself and a whole bunch of other people helped to them out with that. And it's been really cool. I've been able to do a lot of awesome things through this paralysis that I never thought would open up for me. You mentioned earlier about the issues with the disability community in the real world. So let's talk a little bit about that as well. And some of the things that just day to day that you're dealing with when you go out in the world. Parking is one. People park in those spots because they're closer. They don't realize that the reason those hashes are there are so that I can open my door all the way and pull my wheelchair out, put the wheels back on and get into it. So when they take those spots up, they're taking our freedom away. And there was one day I was going to pick up the mail and there was a guy who pulled into the handicap spot before me. So I just waited because he didn't have a placard on his, and I was in a mood. He didn't have the placard on his license plate

40:59and he didn't put one up. So he gets out and I go, excuse me, sir. Now, I'm driving a Camaro SS at this time, which stands for super sexy. It's fine. So I go, excuse me, sir, are you handicap? And he snarks at me and he goes, no, why are you? So I rolled my window all the way down and I pulled my wheelchair up. I go, I'm not, but my wheelchair is. He goes, I'm just going to be a minute. I'm just going to be a minute. It'll be fine. And that was the only spot in that whole parking lot. So snarking at me, I go, okay, great. So I parked right behind him, put my car in park, lean my seat all the way back. I got on Snapchat and TikTok and just sat there for 45 minutes. And he like, with pop his head out, I go, I'm just going to be a minute. It'll be fine. I'm just going to be a minute. And I remember he told the guy who owned the shop that I was going to, he's like, I had to take it. I had to take it and I'll never do it again. So you talk about parking, that's fine. You talk about other people not understanding that sometimes a barrier in a house, even this high can be awful for us.

42:00We get overlooked a lot. We get treated very, very poorly. When you're out and about, people seem to think that they can ask you questions that are not appropriate. And you know me, I just answer them. But a lot of people in my community are just mortified at some of the things that people say to us. And the one that I hate is, oh, it's so good to see you out, bless your heart. I'm like, girl, come on now. It's good to see you out. Like, come on. Or like, you know, I go pick up a pizza. You are an inspiration. And I'm like, okay, no, like we'll just stop right there. So people try to be good, you know, and we're trying our societies learning more about, you know, marginalized communities, but I really feel the disability community is one of those that really needs to step up because I posted something about parking the other day on Instagram and people were fighting me about it. What, why are you fighting me about it? I've been a paraplegic for 12 years. Like, I know better than you. Like, don't come at me.

43:01Like, don't at me if I didn't call for you. Like, just zip it. So again, that's where the thick skin comes in. And I really do try to help with disability rights. But, you know, there are things like, I've checked into hotel rooms and I can't get up on the bed. And I'm like, I thought this was an accessible room. But we didn't know you would be traveling alone. Well, then it's got an accessible room if you need someone. Correct. So yeah, things like that happen. People just, they don't know well enough and you don't know what you don't know. So that's my on Instagram. I try to teach and I do my teachable moments to show people that, you know what? This is not acceptable. This is. So I used to always do bathroom tours when I would go into a hotel and I'd be like, tell me what's wrong or write about this room. And it was cool. People were like getting it. And so, you know, I just love it. I love being able to teach people. But it is a marginalized community that really has been overlooked for a lot of years. And we need to really start being looked at because we are a part of society. One in 50 people have some sort of paralysis.

44:02It may not be in a wheelchair. So, you know, people need to be a little bit more understanding to us. And you may not be disabled today, but there's likely going to be a time where even temporarily, where you are facing a disability. Exactly. And I always tell people that stark at me. I was like, listen, karma is a nasty lady. And my community is one of those that you can join at any moment. So just watch yourself. But also that being said, Alison, another thing that drives me nuts is someone that goes, oh, I broke my femur. I was in a wheelchair for six weeks. I totally understand what you're going through. No, you don't. You understand a little. Yeah, a little bit. Right. You understand the getting around part. You know, but there are so many other things. And I will say this, paraplegics and quadriplegic do not pass away from their paralysis. They pass away from a secondary issue that comes up. You know, be at a bed sore, be at, you know, because we're sitting all day long and we don't know when to move,

45:04you know, or be at things that I'm dealing with now, like bladder stuff. So that's the thing. And people just kind of need to understand that. So how is your health now? It is good. I'm getting ready for my hopefully final bladder surgery on September 12th. We are hoping. So yeah, that would be great. I've done what I've had a lot of problems with it. I have MRSA. I've got interbacter because I've had so many infections. And so now, which is what we just did, I got a tube placed right at my pubic bone and it drains into a bag, which I will carry around with me for the rest of my life because I can't have anything sit in my bladder or otherwise it will turn into, and I've been septic before where the nurses in the hospital have had to wake me up and throw ice on me and, you know, have to do that. Go home with the port and the IV antibiotics. So we're just gonna let it just drain out. We're gonna let her heal herself, let my kidneys heal themselves.

46:06And we are rocking and rolling out. So I am actually feeling better than I have in a really, really long time. So thank you for asking. The pain is still always there. I have a spinal cord stimulator, which helps that. I'm on meds. I know it's gonna be there every day, but it's now something that I can live with. So we're killing it girl. And professionally, what's happening? So professionally, I had been working at the Pac-12 network since the second year of its inception, calling swimming. So I've gotten to see amazing people like someone manual, you know, Katie Ledecki, like the list goes on from the Pac-12. Now I'm doing a CC network. So I get to see the Walsh's Kate Douglas, you know, all of them I do, men's and women's swimming. I also call the preliminaries for NBC Olympics. And we actually won an Emmy last year. I don't know if you guys remember Bob the Cap Ketcher. He was my call. So that was part of the Emmy, because we didn't know what to do. When this man with his lovely dad bod

47:06just shows up on deck in a speedo. So I called his race. And I said, you know, and I remember that. It was fantastic. It was so much fun. And I was like, there's Bob. Bob's already catch the cap. And my play by play was like, Bob, that's not his full name. What's his full name? I'm dub, Bob the Cap Ketcher. Listen, I was in the makeup chair the next morning getting ready for prelims. And the other girls next to me, their producers came in and they were like, okay, we've called for him to get Bob the Cap Ketcher. We can't get him. He doesn't want to do interviews. And I'm like, what happened overnight? Snoop Dogg was talking about it. And like everyone was talking about Bob the Cap Ketcher. This poor man, his name is probably Jacques. He hates me. But also, why are you there in a speedo? What are you doing? You know, like, I loved it. I loved it for the Olympics. I loved it for NBC. We had a great time with him. He hates me. I doubt that Amy. How could anyone eat you? Well, what are you excited about for LA 28? My gosh, I'm excited to have the Olympics back on US soil.

48:09I am excited for these men and women to see how the US crowd comes out and turns out for our Olympians. I am excited to watch swimming. We have got so many amazing athletes on the men's and the women's side. I am excited for either Kate Douglas or Gretchen Walsh to become the second American woman to win the 50 free. Possibly one of them winning five Olympic gold medals. I am excited for all of it. I'm excited for the track and field. I hear Simone Biles is coming back. So I'm excited for the gymnastics. It's going to be an amazing Olympics. And I'm just excited to be there. Hopefully I will be a part of it in some way, hopefully with NBC. But if not, I will be wheeling around all those venues. Y'all in the screaming is loud as I can with my flag. So I will be there one way or another. And I'm going to definitely celebrate all of those athletes, especially the swimmers. And swimming is going to be in a football stadium. Your worlds come together. Isn't that amazing? My husband and I laugh about that. We were watching a preseason game and I go,

49:10can you believe that that's where swimming is going to be? He goes, oh, they are going to pack that house. And it is going to be so loud. And Allison, that's what I'm excited for, right? Because I remember when we did that for the first time at trials last time. And people were like, it was weird because it was kind of quiet on the deck. We couldn't hear a lot of people. I'm going to tell you what, ladies and gentlemen, you are going to hear that proud down on that pool deck. It's so far. So get ready for it. I am so excited. But yeah, so my husband can probably get down there as well. I'll be down there as well. It's just going to be a riot. I'm so stoked. Well, fantastic. Thank you so much for taking some time with us. It's been a lot of fun. Allison, you are so awesome. Thank you so much for having me on. It is an absolute honor. And I love chatting with you. Thank you. Thank you so much, Amy. You can find more at amyvindicand.com. She is also on Instagram and LinkedIn. And she's going to be joining the ranks of podcasts hosts soon. She's working with Dr. Lisa Strowman on a podcast called The Power of One.

50:11So look out for that in your podcast players. And again, great job on this. This was so interesting. I think thank you. Amy did the heavy lifting. She was a fantastic guest. We have Youth Olympic Games news, which we're just sliding into IOC news because they aren't going to be around much longer. I know that's the thing. The Youth Olympic Games are going to become this weird blip in Olympic history. It seems like it seems like they're going on their way out and they're not going to continue with them. So this will be their swan song in a lot of ways. That's interesting to think about it like that. And what are we going to think about this 25 years later when you go look back and go, oh, yeah, we had these things called Youth Olympic Games. Remember those? It's kind of like when in the US, remember the Goodwill Games, which a lot of people don't, or the US Olympic Festival, which

51:11came across my radar the other day, all these blips of things that were so big at the time. And so important. So one last summer Youth Olympic Games that will be in Dakar. As we record, the flame has not been lit. But as you listen to this, the flame will have been lit. They are lighting it in the pan at the A&Aic stadium in Athens and used parabolic mirror to create the fire. The flame arrives in Dakar on September 12th. There's going to be a big ceremony there. Then it's the start of the Dakar 2026 flame tour with the tagline pass the energy. The tour is going to be a 30 stop journey across all 14 regions of the country. So towards relay, get ready for it, get ready for some Youth Olympic Games action. Those start on October 31st, and they run to November 13th. We're ready. I'm actually a little excited because we've never been to Africa.

52:14I mean, not that we're going to the Youth Olympic Games, but just as a movement, the Olympics has never been to Africa. And to have this in Dakar will be interesting to see how it plays. Yeah, I'm really excited to see that aspect of it. They also, I think, will have coastal rowing. So we'll get to see a little bit of that. I think Olympics.com error, the Olympic channel online is streaming all of this stuff. So we'll see what we can see. We've had a Facebook poll put up on our Facebook group that's keep the flame alive podcast asking whether or not you would like to listen to coverage of the Youth Olympic Games. And we're going to leave that up for a couple of weeks. Do we do any shows about the Youth Olympic Games and recapping them? Do we do one show? Do we do two shows? What would you like to hear? So if you are in the Facebook group, be sure to look for that. It's pinned to the top of the page. And if you're not in the Facebook group, join us. We have a lot of fun. There's been some good conversations lately.

53:14Good conversations about maybe using the word Olympian to describe yourself. Questionably using the word Olympian to describe yourself. Oh, I like it. I like that. Thank you. I was finding World Games music. Because we have not had a musical introduction for the World Games to signify them. Oh my gosh, I am so excited about the World Games. Carl's Ruhr, 2029. You know, so how we, for years, we have missed out on the World Games. I mean, part of it was because it really wasn't on television. And you couldn't watch it. And now with streaming, they've made it very easy to see all these events. But we've gotten ourselves so enmeshed in World Games and thin swimming. And just these incredible sports that we did not even know existed. I know. And honestly, I think, listener Brittany, who

54:14is always on World Games stuff. I see, you know, World Games headline, good one comes into the inbox. And I go to post it in Facebook. And Brittany is already there. She's there. John, who has been a guest on the show, former World Games athlete. I guess you've always called a World Gamesian. Once a World Gamesian, always in World Games. World gamer. We'll check with John. Yeah. The International World Games Association announced the full sports program for Carl's Root in 2029. So if you are new to the podcast and don't know what the world games in, you are in for a treat. These are like the Olympics, but for non-allympic sports. And therefore, also for sports trying to get onto the Olympic program, sports that are newer to the Olympic program or that like a host city selected to be in the games, but may not be in future editions. There's also sports with disciplines that aren't on the Olympic program. So like gymnastics is in the World Games, but it's going to be like acrobatic and aerobics

55:17and stuff you're not going to see in the Olympics at all. World Games have been around since 1981. So we talk about them on this show because the IWGA does have a relationship and recognition from the IOC International Olympic Committee. And that's part of the reason why we care about them. These are also fun. That's really why we care about them. So World Games are a summer only event they take place the year after an Olympic Games. Next edition is in Carl's Root, Germany in 2029. Carl's Root is the first two-time host of the World Games. Third time the games are in Germany. So what's cool about the World Games is that the sports program can really change from addition to addition disciplines and sports come and go way more than they do in the Olympics. There's only five sports and events within sports that have been in every edition of the game. So those are equipped powerlifting.

56:21Roller sports, just the speed events have been in every edition. Outdoor tug of war, because I also learned in doing my research that there was indoor tug of war. And sometimes games had both. Finn Swimming, which is an underwater sport. And then Water ski and Wakeboard has had an event in every edition of the World Games. But no one event has been in every edition. So the initial sports list came out in April. Some sports have been added. I want to hear those negotiations because we got the final list of disciplines announced. They are. Are you ready for this? Skydiving under air sports. Was at Birmingham 2022. Birmingham, Alabama, which is also how these got on our radar because they were going to be in Alabama. And they were close to home. Flag football. So again, we'll see that before LA 2028,

57:23field and target archery brand new will be air badminton brand new will be baseball five, which is a small version of baseball that like you can play in a parking lot. So you don't need a field for this. Bill years is back with Karam, pool, and snooker. Bulls sport will have Patonk and Leon A's cheerleading cheerleading is a sport that has been in games before. In the 2025 edition, they had palm. Palm has been dropped in terms of in favor of premiere cheerleading, which is a mixed team event. Oh, right off the bat. That means we're going to have flyers. Yes. Oh, climbing is back. It will have bolder speed and para climbing. Para climbing is new indoor cycling. This is an event that was last seen at the last time Carl's

58:28Rua held. So indoor cycling means artistic cycling. What does that even mean? Oh my gosh, go down a rabbit hole with me, everybody. And watch some artistic cycling. This is two music. You like stand on your bike and jump on the handlebars and jump back down and spin the wheels around and stuff like that. It's like, you know, as I talk about it, have you ever seen that in the world of question games that bear back stuff where they'll do stands and stuff on the horses? Well, this is they do it on bikes. This is going to be fun. And fun in a cool way, fun in a, I cannot believe this is a sport way, but it will be interesting. Dan sport will have break in standard and Latin. Fishball will be outdoor fishball, indoor floorball,

59:28ultimate flying disc and disc golf disc golf is back. Gymnastics will have acrobatic aerobic parkour, trampoline and rhythmic. Sadly, tumbling is out again. We love tumbling when it was. Tumbling hands. It's great. I know. Love it, but it's not back. Be chand ball brand new will be hockey fives. Again, another sport is trying to get a smaller version of itself to be a thing. Jiu Jitsu will have duo fighting. Jiu Jitsu Nihwaza and inclusive self defense and inclusive is new. There's been some parage Jiu Jitsu before, but I think this is a different version of a pair element. Karate will have kata kumate and para. Para is new. Kickboxing will have k1 style, which was last seen at Birmingham and point fighting, which is brand new. Don't ask me what that is. As I think producer Ben said, how many fighting sports can we have? We can have a lot of fighting sports.

1:00:29Corp ball will have beach and indoor versions. Sixless lacrosse is on the list. Life saving is in the pool. There used to be beach life saving as well, but this one, this one, folks. I cannot, I can't believe because I knew it was a thing. Many golf. It is a precision sport. It is a precision sport. I mean, those water wheels and things don't make it any easier. I'm going to dig into this because I have a feeling, but I'm not sure. I don't know if competitive mini golf on this level will be obstacles. Oh, there has to be. I mean, it's got, oh, my gosh, wouldn't it be fun to design that course? Yeah, it'll be like designing the equestrian courses where they have the sumo Tushy. From Tokyo, 2020.

1:01:31What could you do in Karl's row? I don't know. Bring down the Berlin Wall. You have to get through, you have to get through the Brandenburg gate to get to the hole. Oh, but there's probably better things in Karl's row. Oh, my gosh, but mini golf, which came out of nowhere. That was not even on the list of stuff we were considering adding and it just showed up. Combat Muay Thai, foot orientering, paddle has a bunch of stuff. Dragon boat got dropped from the last edition, which was in China. So that makes sense, but Dragon boat was cool, but they will have marathon paddle, kayak polo and paddle para marathon and para is a new element. So many new power sports, which is fantastic. Yes, equate powerlifting roller sports. We'll only have speed skating this time around. Typically there's a hockey version that's out.

1:02:32The bike is still out that was last in 2022. And then remember in Chengdu, 2025, that weird freestyle inline stuff? Where it was, you had to go around the little obstacles. The little cones, the little ones. Yes. And do a routine. We won't get to see that again. You know, I don't mind. I can't say I do either. Squash is back. Sumo is back on the program because it was not at 2025. So excited. Sumo is so much fun to watch. Do Athlon is under the triathlon banner. Outdoor tug of war, underwater sports will have fin swimming, free diving and free diving for athletes with impairments. We are not fans of free diving. We won't be watching that because that gives me nightmares. You know, it makes me physically sick almost. It's like watching competitive eating. I can't do that. If we're out on 4th of July, I have to physically either close my eyes, maybe close my ears,

1:03:32or leave the room because I cannot watch a hot dog eating competition. This is the hot dog eating of the world games. Yes. So free diving, if you're not aware of this, is how long can you stay underwater and swim back and forth in the pool? Is there anything else that was involved with it? There was a time element in terms of how long and how much distance you traveled in your time. Yes. And when people came up, there are life-saving people in the water because sometimes these people are next to convulsing when they come up. Yeah. Am I remembering this correctly? Yes. And blacking out, there's elements of that. It's just, I get you want to push the limits, but I just don't get why you want to push these limits. Anyway, it's back. Skie and Wakeboard will have cable Wakeboarding and cable Water Skie and then Wushu will have Sanda and Tau Lu. Also out from the last edition of the games, drone under the Air Sports category.

1:04:35The way I can still hear them. I'm still trying to find them on the course because that was for me the hardest thing. Softball is out. One of the Jiu Jitsu events, which is duo for athletes with impairment, that's out. Powerboarding is out. They had electric motor surf in 2025. Classic powerlifting is out. Racketball is out. That is a big one. And that's a surprise. Yes. And then Sambo is out, which is another fighting sport. So big program. Exciting program. Exciting program. And what surprised me was break dancing was back because it was gone at one point. It's back now and wanting to get back into the Olympics. So we'll see how it does in this version. Yeah. World Games does not disappoint. We talked a little bit about it in this past week's newsletter, which is on Substack. If you don't get it, sign up at our website flamelypod.com. But yeah, get excited about world games. We're talking about it on the Facebook group already.

1:05:36I got to say, it's fun to have this a year after the Olympics. When you have that come down from a big summer games, go right to watch and some Wushu. But not free diving. No, no. Make it stop. No. All right. Carl's Ruah, 2029, looks super exciting. We'll get pumped. We'll try to figure out what we can learn more about the world games because they are kind of a hard group to get a hold of. And maybe we can have some more world games coverage in the run up to that. But definitely keep an eye on it and talk about it in the Facebook group. And that's going to do it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening. And until next time, keep the flame alive.