Anik Malcolm on Art School Disillusionment & Finding Purpose in Bitcoin Art | Bitcoin Art Podcast w/ Asanoha Ep. 4

Welcome to the Bitcoin art podcast, the show where we explore how Bitcoin isn't

just code. It's culture, philosophy and art. Before we begin, I'd like to give a shout out to

our sponsors, patrons, and artists. Thank you to all of whom who have helped make this possible.

Today, we're sitting down with Onik Malcolm, a Bitcoin artist. Thank you for coming onto the show today.

You're very welcome, man. Thank you for having me.

How about you tell us a little bit about your childhood, what sort of environment were you raised in,

and who would you say were the people who shaped you the most?

Oh, that's hard. Okay, man. Okay, this is personal shit, man, because I can't tell you the

you can change the real picture. It's like I can't give the full picture without being quite personal

about it. But yeah, okay, man, I'll go there. I can go there. I come from a quite bizarre background

actually, man. For instance, my granddad, he was born Italian. His dad was born into the

fricking house that the pentagon was based on. This is a deep shit. They lived in the house where

the funnier set, which is one of the 13 fucking bloodline houses, so he told you, lived. So that's

on what, and they lost all their money in the war, blah, blah, blah. So whatever, but from this kind

of family, right, he died, my granddad and never met him. He died in the second world war, and they

just lost everything. And my dad's side, he from New Zealand, he inherited a shit ton of money from

a sheet farm, which he then drank all the way, died penniless. And so I left him, well, we left him

when I was two. And so it's a bit of a kind of like, this is the background, right, kind of like

richest around situation in a way. And so in a way, like my mom was really like dead set on kind of

like putting at least giving me the chance of getting back there kind of thing. So like they

spent like they went into massive debt to send me to some like, like, post school, which was not

I learned to really fucking hate the system there. And I was just some graph skateboard kid, you know,

and then amongst suddenly like 13 thrown into this kind of like world of like

that society, right, which I fucking hated, and all super strict rules and deep tradition and all

this stuff. And I was always just this art from when I was a kid, from when I was very small,

I was just super rebellious, super artistic, super blah blah blah. So that was all that I

am a new, but that was of me that I wanted to do, right? It was like that or nothing. And that

wasn't really pushed at all because, you know, they wanted me to go on a different trajectory,

which I just refused. So there wasn't really ever any artistic support from my family.

But my sister, she's like a crazy like hippie witch type. She was always very supportive and

showed me like all sorts of stuff from the early age, including how to use a pendulum and all that's

kind of worship, right? So she always supported my art, but that's, you know, that was it was just like

I had no one to we had artists in the family going back generations and so on. But I was kind of

like very much of my own true debt trajectory and kind of like just had to figure it all out myself,

which I did, and I'm glad. And yeah, so that's that's that's the background man.

Interesting. It's older sister or younger sister? They're older, they're older, yeah,

yeah, unlike the youngest by long shot. Okay, so I was going to ask you, was there a moment in your

early life when you first realized that you saw the world differently than most people around you,

but it sounds like your sister's or at least also saw the world differently? Yeah, no, absolutely.

I mean, she does always has done. But yeah, no from an early age always. I knew it like the first,

the second record I bought when I was like eight or something like 12 inch was a song called

Hey Matthew. It was like a one hit one, the kind of thing guy called Carol Fielka. And the song

is about this dad, but essentially as you're rapping, he's just like speaking to his son about

TV and about what the TV is showing him and the programming and the violence and the societal

shit and all this stuff, right? And I just listened to this on the p on the p on the p on the p

I was just like, whoa, you know, and that to me was kind of I guess that was like the first

memorable to me kind of like instant instance of like, you know, logging out of the status quo sort

of speaking, you know, and being like, no, this is this is the shit. And I've always just like

seen it through that lens, probably before then, which is why it resonated. But, you know,

definitely ever since then. And this is also during the time like we were living in Germany at the

time and all of the collapse of communism. So, you know, what's happening? And I was super

interested in this. And so it was all very, yeah, very kind of like I was always interested in

the big a picture and the whole like, you know, the way the world. And then my mum fucking,

she read, she to prepare me for the school, right, that I was going to she read read me 1984

when I was 12 years old, you know, so yeah, so that was like very much added to the lens

through which I saw the world, you know, interesting. And you said, I know that from past conversations

that you did go to art school, right? Yeah, yeah. But that was after this. What kind of, yeah,

was this was like a principle? Yeah, it was like a, yeah, yeah, very fucking old,

fucking, you know, like posh uniforms like boarding school. I had to wear a gown even because I was

a scholar. I got a scholarship there. So, yeah, but I never refused to wear it. And I fucking

hated everything about it. It caused me like deep anxiety, actually, that place. But it was like,

yeah, it's good. And then so then I was just like, you know, everyone might fault it. They're like,

no, you've got to try to get me to go, you know, to get to me, right? And I was like, no, man,

I have to go art school. There's no, there's no option for me. I didn't want it, you know,

all of the, there was nothing that I could choose from. I never wanted to be part of the system.

There was nothing within the system that was enticing to me, you know, I just saw it all was just

like bullshit. And so I couldn't see myself just doing some fucking money earning job just for

the sake of it and pretending I didn't know it was bullshit, you know? So art to me was the only

because I'd always done art anyway. And that was my passion. And that was the only thing to me

that had truth in it, at least, you know, that it was, it bypassed the bullshit only to then

later discover that the art world has that just as much, you know? But I'm very glad I went to

art school, man, you know, I really love that. That was very cool. How did you, how did you,

so you went to the prep school and then how did you, like, how did you end up at art school

from that? I know you were just saying that you, you know, they were there trying to get you to

go do something straight edge. And you, you, you know, couldn't do that. But how did you,

how did you, how did you find your way to art school? Oh, I just like looked for the art schools

in London and applied and went, you know? I remember going like on the, on the open day, I was like,

fuck, this is where I want to be, man, you know? Yeah. Just the whole environment, the whole,

I remember that for my first day there, and like, asking a teacher for a light for my cigarette,

and I was like, wow, this is freedom, you know? Yeah, that's just what I needed. And so yeah,

that's what I just did. And luckily, my, my, my parents were, or my mom's dad was supportive

to that end, you know, they didn't try and get in the way. So, yeah. And how finally it's

fitting, you know, starting to make sense with thanks to Satoshi, man, you know? Yeah.

All right, I have, I have, I guess let's, let's talk about, I, I, okay, let me ask you one more

childhood kind of question. Do you have like a memory from when you were young, something that

was profound, something that moved you deeply, or something that, that, um, I don't know,

is there's any, anything that you can think of off the top of your head that just like you always

remember that moment, or you always remember that, you know, that thing that person said,

how would you get? Actually, the first thing that springs to mind, and this is actually relevant

to the, to the work I'm doing at the moment. So I can, I think that's, that's a good one to do.

There was this experience I had when I was around the age that we were talking about, I don't

even like eight, younger as well, where, and it would be interesting if other people have

experienced this as well, because Una also had this, my wife, and, and I read, I have read about it

in the writings of Kant's Castanera as well. So when I was falling asleep, in this like between

zone, I would, first I'd have this kind of physical experience that my body, my limbs were just like

growing massively, right? And I would see this like entity, it's like this gray, almost cube,

kind of though, this gray like rock, like a porous rock hanging in front of them in space,

like an empty space, which was infinitely close, well not like incredibly close, but also super

distant, and then equally massive, but at the same time absolutely small. So it was like this,

and I could feel this, it was like, and, and the, so the, in Castanera, they write, he writes about

this exact, when I read this, and I put the fuck, this entity as being this kind of like very powerful

force, which is, it's neither been level, benevolent, nor malevolent, it's either or depending on

how you use it, it's to be taken with caution, you know, and kind of thing. And in a way, you can,

you know, tie that into, to Bitcoin as well, you know, it's a kind of like, it just is, it's a thing

of what you make of it, how you as an individual, how all society, how, you know, all of this stuff,

it's just is, it's a question of how you approach it, what you, what you do with it. So it was kind

of fun when I realized this one, I was making this work that I'm working on at the moment, it's like,

wow, that's this thing that I used to experience, you know, so it's kind of fun how that like ties,

ties in, ties in with that. Fascinating. Interesting. You're, I want to ask you more about your

childhood, but I figure we'll save that for another day and maybe get into talking a bit more about

your artwork here. I do have a lot of questions for you. I feel like we have parallels in some

ways and the ways that we grew up, you know, yeah. I'm actually surprised at how, how, like,

I'm being told about this stuff, but it's, it's, yeah, no, it's super interesting. It's very form,

you know, it's, it shapes who we are, right, you know, and it's something that also like,

you know, the stuff that I was telling you right at the beginning, this is stuff that I had a hard

time admitting for a long time, you know, I'm super ashamed of coming from this kind of background

actually, you know, because I just despised it, you know, and it's only recently actually through

Bitcoin that I started to recognise that it can be a very good thing, you know, the things like,

I used to see money as an inherently bad thing, like we're programmed to do, right,

and starting to realise that it can be a force of great good, if used correctly, if in the right

hands, you know, so yeah, so it's a, a growing process. It's a long, strange trick as what it is.

Yeah, man. Yeah, man. Oh, wow. It's a fun, fun theatre we're in, man.

Hey, you are, you, everything, you're going to be at Vegas this year?

Yeah, that's cool. I'm excited for it. As of right now, it sounds like I'll be there as well.

We're not using so wonderful. Yeah, really cool. That's your reviews. Yeah, that's your good news.

I'm going to hang out there as well and be like, I'm not going to make, like, I'm not making an

official announcement yet until everything's locked in, but, but uh, okay, cool. This is pretty close

to official though, right? I mean, come on. Yeah, yeah, but, but I'm not, you know, this is,

it's in conversation, not, not making a, yeah, yeah. I'm not making a superficial social media post.

Yeah, exactly. Just a casual conversation with friends. I'm super looking forward to it this year.

I'm like, uh, changing my attitude towards it as I told you the other day on the phone.

Um, um, I had, like, last time it was a massive culture shock for me,

A Vegas B frigging crypto bro,

Pollock's going on there, you know, and so I was a little bit frigging flabbergasted by a whole

situation and that kind of, I think pulled down my energy quite a lot. Uh, this time,

I'm embracing it in a completely different way. It's like, it is what it is. People go to Vegas to

voluntarily have fun. Uh, and I'm going to just like embrace it. Such a look forward to just meeting

everyone again, both new faces and old, you know, and I think I'm going to be much more relaxed

about you. Yeah, it's different jokes for different folks, you know, Vegas is apparently fun

for some people and you know, you're not, you're not, you're not, I remember you telling me that

about having a, seeing it through a different perspective and I was actually thinking about that,

it was either today or yesterday and because I'm thinking about, okay, logistics of going there

and bringing the magazine and stuff and so I appreciate your perspective on that and that it's,

it's going to be a super fun and awesome positive trip and look at how much we're going to,

we're going to exclaim what fun these people are having as we walk past the slot machine.

Right. The generous. Yeah, you know, we can see people getting lost in the maze, you know,

off for a hand. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. Oh, anyway. All right. So you've been making art for a really

long time. Have you been making art as long as you can remember or do you, is there a point that

you remember when you like started making art and you're like, and we're cognitive of the fact

that you were making art maybe? Yeah, my first actually, yeah, that's a good question. The first time

I realized that I was maybe kind of like a little bit different like that was, I was like,

I remember drawing shoulders on people, you know, at school, like a pre-school. I was like,

dude, why is everyone drawing people like this? People got shoulders, man. You know, and I was like,

I'm kind of, you know, advanced here, you know. And I was also like, I've got a drawing that I did

at the chandelier, like shadowed shade at the chandelier when I was six years old kind of shit,

you know, so I was always doing stuff that made grown-ups going, whoa, you know.

So, yeah, no, I've always, I've always, yeah, I was doing a growing realization that, you know,

this is like what I do, you know. But I've been very much on and off with it, you know, because

at one point, like, it just seemed pointless. I just, you know, it was like,

it seemed to be so much like of this, as I speak about all the time, you know, this kind of

very nihilistic, depressing, ugly art in the world. And it seemed just so, like, um, saturated

with that, there was like, how are you going to make an impression there? How are you going to?

And so I kind of, in a way, gave up, I always, I'll do bits and bulbs here and there, but like,

I kind of like lost sight of the pursuit of being an artist, so to speak, you know, so myself as

an artist, just by what I do in my daily life and everything, you know, whether it's music or whether

it's renovating places or just living, um, but I had kind of given up on the visual arts as it were,

until I found this world, man. Yeah, you've talked a little bit, you've told me a bit about,

I think, to summarize a disenfranchisement, a disenchantment with the fiat art world.

Um, but maybe let's not get into that right now, but I do want to ask you because I want to ask

you about, let's, well, when I'm going to keep moving forward into an, I want to, I'm going to ask you

for the full explainer on the cube. And so, but not just yet, there was a, I saw somewhere, and I,

if I had to prepare it better for this interview right now, I would have found the post, but you had

painted a bunch of trash in an alley white. I think you posted it, and you had, it was, it was like

trash bags and some junk, like a cardboard box and maybe a empty milk jug, I don't know, it was,

it was just some junk and like a handful of trash bags in an alleyway and they were, it was

all perfectly painted white. So, yeah, that was a story behind that.

Oh, that was funny. I mean, as said, I've always, I've never really, really stopped doing art,

you know, I was a graffiti writer forever and, you know, always, I guess, will be to an extent.

So I was always doing little projects here and there, whatever. And this is just something, I was,

I just walked past the, in an alleyway in Reykjavík and Iceland and there was just like someone

have just like done a whole bunch of trash there, right? And I don't know how I had the idea, but

I was just like, hey, that would be really cool monochrome. And so I just went to the place where

I was staying, grabbed a bucket of paint and just went there just daytime and started just painting.

And as you said, it was like super meticulous. I didn't want to get any on the walls, any on the

floor, on the ground. I wanted it to be just like looked like, you know, photo shop in almost,

you know, and just as I was finishing the cops turned up and they tried to fucking arrest me, man.

As I said, dude, man, and they're like, no, this is someone else's property. I'm like, man, it's

been discarded, you know, and they're like, yeah, but still it's someone else's property. And then

I don't, I don't remember the full interaction, but my, the life, the last word that I had on the

mat was like, listen, does it look better now? Or how it was before? And they were like,

it's better now. And I said, okay, I'll arrest my case. But don't do it again, kind of thing,

so yeah, no, that was fun. And it's called white trash, obviously. No, I think that's absolutely

hilarious. I feel like there's maybe someday there's some, some tie, some, maybe some tie,

somehow back the Bitcoin with that and some project there. Yeah, well, this is kind of fun,

because like, you know, I'm like, you know, one of those, one of those things where it's like,

one of those art projects, you see, it really does get you thinking, you know, um, I don't know,

what did make you think? I'm interested. What did it make you think? Just, just the idea of it,

I mean, on the one hand, I suppose it's, it's something, you know, I don't know, I just feel like

there's, there's something interesting about the idea of, I think the performance art in it,

maybe the visual of it, the photo that you shared, if I remember correctly, was quite striking,

it was, it was interesting to look at. And it was interesting, it was like, was that Photoshop

thing? Like, what am I looking at here? Right, yeah. Because you don't recognize it as trash,

because it's all like perfectly painted white, so it doesn't look like, you know, like,

flash bags are junk. But it has this form of trash. And so your brain is like, trying to register

what it is. And it was, it's just, I think that's really interesting. And then you've combined

the performative act of like, well, I sat here and like, hand painted this. And something about the,

I don't know, the doing something for the sake of doing it with like zero outcome, ultimately,

you know, and, and I feel like you could, but then, you know, painting trash, like making trash

beautiful, um, subjectively beautiful. I think there's just a lot of a lot, a lot you could riff off

of there, you know, maybe there's maybe there's a small series where it's, it's stuff that gets painted

orange. That's not, it kind of makes, it makes me start thinking of like, I would never use orange

or masks, you know, um, you know what, it's interesting, because like, I've actually,

because since like discovering Bitcoin art and just like going like full on into it, you know,

because it's like a actually interesting, it's like a renaissance from a personal renaissance,

right? It's like the rebirth of, of my own, um, artistic being. And so I've realized, I've noticed

that I like, I'm picking up subconsciously, consciously on, um, things where I had left off,

in a way, like the, the, the buy Bitcoin painting is, uh, a riff off of something that I was doing,

actually one of the last things I know that art college, um, and, uh, and the cube thing as well,

I was doing lots of graph paperwork back then as well, and playing with base nine numbers,

and all sorts of shit like this. So, um, it is very much a, um, picking up where I left off,

which is cool, and it's fun being able to, uh, refer, or, you know, to, uh, pick up that gauntlet in

a way, and, uh, and, and add to that all through the, through the lens of now, all of the,

required experience I have had in the, in the meantime and so on. So, um, yeah, absolutely.

There's like, um, I've got quite a, uh, yeah, quite a, um, a pool of stuff to draw on, basically,

um, which I will continue to do for sure. And who knows if that doesn't creep back in?

Actually, I actually, I have had an idea that, and I haven't connected that, what you're

mentioning, uh, that white trash piece, but, uh, I had had an idea where that could be quite

interesting. So, thanks. You gotta, uh, all right. I gotta tell me the idea now.

No, no, no, no, no. God forbid. You know how guarded I am. All right. All right, all right,

all right. What we do have to talk about is, well, what, what are we doing on time here?

here. We're doing good on time. All right. Quick question. And then I'm going to ask you about the cube.

Do you remember the first moment you decided to make Bitcoin art?

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Um, it was, uh, it was cool. Actually, my, um, my family, my wife and kids were

in Iceland. I must have been like June or July, something like that. Um, and I was listening

to the art of freedom. I was eating just, just cooking myself a steak every evening,

watering the tomatoes, having a glass of wine and listening to every Monday, listening to, um,

to art of freedom. And it was, and I don't know how I actually got there in the first place,

but I did. And I was listening to, uh, one of the episodes. And I was actually thinking about

it yesterday. Maybe it was with Zetra. It was definitely with one of the, like, graph, um,

graph people or, you know, ex-graph people, uh, and I was like, shit, I should be doing this.

This is what I should, because I had been previously like, I did there, there'd be the change T-shirts

and I did those couple of tunes and shit. Um, so I was like, you know, already like very infected by

the, the massive creativity in the space, right? Um, but it was listening to, to art of freedom that

I was like, wow, this is what I need to be doing. And then I did those, I was like, I can tie this,

because like, I did that one, um, that one tune where all of the lyrics of BTC, like almost all

of the words. And so many people don't notice that. It's really fun. Um, and I was like, ah, cool,

I can apply that to, I can do you like graph like drawings of like various BTC phrases that,

and so I just missed it up. All sorts of phrases I could think of and look like chose for,

which I then did the disease drawings for, uh, fractals show in Osalva.

Uh, I did one, submitted that and he was like, yeah, man, let's go. And I was so excited. I was like,

oh, brilliant. I'm going to go, um, and yeah, and I haven't looked that since I literally have barely

taken any days off since, since then, which is terrible. Um, yeah. Terrible. Terrible for the,

terrible for the wife, but maybe not so much. That, you know, he's also very pretty.

Very creative. What did you say? What's that? She's also like super like busy with her. She's

also always been very creative and like doing her thing. So, um, it's just good that I'm,

and I'm, I'm not unavailable. Like the kids will come and hang out with me in the studio and chat to

me and, uh, so it's not like, um, um, don't talk to daddy's busy kind of shit, you know. I'm still

very much there, but I'm just like engaged. Yeah. Like full on. Well, you can understand one of those

pieces. I know that I think you last said you have two of them left. Are you going to send one

of them? Yeah. To Denver. You keep reminding me of I keep forgetting, um,

prints to send to Denver, because I got a deal. Now, you know, we got a gallery in Denver.

It's Bitcoin art magazine times the space, uh, auctions out in the city. And it'll be physical

art hanging in the space in Denver. If anybody listening to this is in Denver, Colorado, go check it

out. The space in Denver, Bitcoin, Citadel, Denver's premier Bitcoin Citadel. And we have art

on the walls. And you can also go to scarce.city. And you can look at the artwork there. That is

currently at a fixed price. And then a couple months here will be going on auction. And

we're going to find out if on it's going to send me anything for the gallery.

What's this space, man? Um, actually, I need to go to the post office on Friday.

It's a big city. So, um, I might just tag there. Okay. Also, I'll send me the pizza.

I will. I already did, but I will send them to you again. I will. I will.

I will. I will feed them down to you. Yeah. No, you've been, you've been, I've been a little bit

ton of vision of late. Yeah. So you've been really busy painting dots. Balls. Balls. And each

ball. Yeah. Each ball represents one Bitcoin. Correct. Okay. Will you tell me a little bit about

what you're working on? Um, yeah. Sure. Okay. I mean, I had, I did do that, uh, this animation,

the video, which is my pen tweet, which, uh, I was shocked by how. If you're listening to this,

that's at Onik Malcolm. All lowercase. Yeah. One word. A N I K M A L C O L M. That's at Onik Malcolm

on Twitter. And you can watch his pin video. But I'm going to make him explain it to me right now.

It was really funny because I literally did, I did a poll just like, hey, anyone, would anyone

appreciate me doing an animation explaining it? And like five people will, you know, yeah, do that.

And so I literally did it for those fighting those six, actually. Oh, cool. Uh, for those six

people. And then it just like got freeing tons of shares and, and like got picked up by some

very cool stuff. So, um, I was very happy about like, very surprised by how this very like

clinical mathematical artwork idea resonated. So basically, it went like this. Um, I was sitting

with Una one rainy afternoon and I said to her, like, we always, we've been collaborated and all

sorts of stuff over the years. And I said to her, like, I want to do an artwork with 21 million

or something, which is in a particular novel idea, of course. Uh, it just takes doing. Um, and she,

her, she just need your response was like, do a cube of beads because she is, uh, a jeweler.

So she works at beads beads are also one of the first methods of exchange, right? So this just

made perfect sense. And the cube is obviously, you know, very ubiquitous and the bit in Bitcoin

imagery for obvious reasons. Uh, and so I like, cool. I love that idea. And I instantly just like,

grab the calculator and saw like, how would this work out? How could I do this? Um, and found

the nearest cube root, which is 276. And as Michael sailor previously posted about as well,

I didn't know this. Um, uh, he missed a trick. And this is the cool part. Uh, when you do 276

cubed, you get a bit more than 21 million, you get 21 million, 24,576. And so I said, okay,

cool. So to get 21 million, I just need to do that cube of 276, um, and remove the extra 24,576.

And so I was like, okay, it would be cool if that, like, you know, it's a cube would be most

visually pleasing if that could be removed equally from all six sides, right? And so does it divide

by six that number? Yes, it does. It, um, it divides and you get 4,096. So you have to remove

4,096 from each one. And I recognize that number. I've seen that before. Uh, and so I was like,

wow, it's a cube. It would be coolest, of course, if that number could be, was a square, right?

If it were to be had a square root as 9,4,096 have a square root. And sure enough, the square root

of 4,096 is 64. So you can remove a square of 64 by 64 from each of the six sides. I just,

that's so fun neat. That's so, like, incredibly, like elegant. What are the freedom chances of that?

And then I realized that obviously 64 is, you can divide the half. Again, again, it's a power of two

number, right? So you can display or be boring if it was just the same square on each of the six

sides. So on one side, you have 64 by 64. Then on the next side, you have four squares of 32 by 32.

And keep on splitting that in half, in half and half. So, and in so doing, you get this kind of visual

representation of the halving mechanism because the sides go half, half by each, on each side.

But also this kind of like, uh, exponential growth that happens by the, you know, by the, um,

by this halving, halving process. So to me, as like, like, I accidentally found this incredibly,

simple visual representation of Bitcoin and its mechanisms and its functions all in one,

just like super concise image, you know, and I just got so excited about this. And I lost many

nights of sleep just thinking about all the different ways I could, I could portray this. And so,

so I've done the graphic version, I've done a drawing version, I'm currently working on the,

the oil painting version. Then we, I'm in conversations about doing a massive public sculpture

version. I also want to do a, like the original idea, small sculpture version. So yeah, and I'm

going to do freaking t-shirts and, and paper weights and freaking name it, man. I'm kind of excited.

I ran over. No, I, uh, I would love it. I would love a t-shirt. I, I think the, yeah, I,

there will be, there will be some of Vegas actually. Um, there have been conversations about this. So

there will be some, uh, uh, to do with, uh, with, with, I think, Charles, I know, uh, to do with the,

with the, the, um, the conference itself. So I'm, I'm very excited. Yeah. Yeah, man. Awesome.

Nice. Uh, yeah. It's something pleasing about, about the cube with the squares on each face

that break down. And I love, there's something so opsec about it. That's just, I mean, I hope some,

yeah, the cube is an opsec and that everybody knows what that cube means. Thank you. Thank you.

As of right. I fully agree. I fully agree. And I think it will, like I was talking to, uh, someone

the other day about it becoming its own numetics, you know, because like the last thing I did,

at Vegas, uh, the, by Bitcoin art thing, obviously has this very strong, like, mimetic

language already, you know, it's very recognizable. But like, I would like to, I would, I think

this, what I'm working on at the moment, has the, um, potential of becoming its own kind of,

like, the mythic thing, you know, in, in the sense of just like, it's own very visually

recognizable thing. And I agree, I've, as much as everyone loves the Bitcoin B, it is still, um,

connected to the fiat, I think, right? It's still, it's, you put it alongside the dollar sign and

the euro sign and the end sign and the, in the pound sign, it's one, it makes it indistinguishable

from one of those, but we wanted to distinguish it from those. We don't want it to be, um, yet

another currency symbol, because it's more than just a currency. It's a fucking philosophy. It's a

revolution, you know? Yeah, that's it. That's, I haven't really thought about what you're saying

there from that perspective. I've definitely had an appreciation for artwork in Bitcoin art that's

not just, you know, a clever variation or a version of a B or God, you know, let alone just

slapping it beyond something and calling it Bitcoin art. But from perspective there, you point

out of how it's, that's still associating it to the money, which is amazing. And that is what

it's all about and the sound form of money and so forth. But it's like the, you know, that's the

denomination that the, um, the currency ticker of it and that, you know, there's something special

about the symbols that represent the philosophy behind Bitcoin and the idea behind it. Which I think

in a lot of ways is so much more powerful than Bitcoin itself in the sense that Bitcoin's an idea

and it's an idea. Yeah. I mean, it's a different idea for different people, but I would say most

Bitcoiners agree that it's, you know, there's some basic universal ideas around Bitcoin, you know,

that are very beautiful and libertarian values to them. Yeah. You know, um, that, and it's an

absolute departure from, you know, it's the polar opposite to the system to which we've been

subjected for hundreds, thousands of years, you know, so it needs to be separate, you know, it

needs to be its own trajectory, its own things, sorry, I interrupt you there. No, no, the, what are

the symbols going to be? What are the symbols of that idea, the underlying philosophy, the underlying

idea of not working for what another man can print or not, you know, what are the, of being truly

sovereign, like what are the symbols of sovereignty? And um, yeah. So I think that's cool. I mean,

like the infinity divided by 21 million as a good example of, uh, right, of a mean, which it,

well, that's why I called it the whole entire universe, right? It's that it's a hat tip to that.

It's, uh, the, you know, infinity. And then there's the 21 million, which is also this kind of,

this unit is one cube, but it's also, you know, out into infinity, you know. Yeah, I mean, I,

yeah, I love it. I think it's a, it's a, I don't know, I can see it becoming more of a, um,

mimetic, having a mimetic effect as people understand it. And it's interesting. Yeah, I hope so.

No idea what the fuck you were doing or part of my language. No idea what you were doing. Like,

I needed no, no one did, man, no. I'm sure somebody listened to this and it was like, what on

earth are they talking about exactly? You told me, like on the phone, the whole thing already,

and I was like, and then when I saw your explainer video, I took that for me to understand it,

which is kind of embarrassing because like some of the art that I make is like, dude,

for a complex and stuff, but it's up, these are, these are, I, you know, sometimes these are

things that take a minute to wrap your head around. Yeah, absolutely. And, and that little cube you

have now means so much. Right, exactly. It's a, it's a complex idea wrapped in a very simple image,

but you need to understand that, that, that image first, I guess. And it's true. And, you know,

don't be, don't be in any way, you know, ashamed of that because like, I explained this to an

engineer friend of mine. And he, he was like, no, explain it again, explain it in writing and

like step by step. And even then it wasn't properly clicking, you know, and which is why I was so

surprised that this video did do so well, you know, like it was posted by Bitcoin, you separately,

and, and stuff. Because I guess it does, it does encapsulate this kind of like very deep truth,

like I had people like commenting like, this is re re re rekindled my passion for Bitcoin

kind of shit, you know, and it's like, wow, if, if, if like something that simple can do something

that profound, then, you know, then that same something, then it's, it, you know, it's clearly

something very potent, you know, which is why I was so excited about it in the first place,

because I recognize that, that potency, you know, I was like, wow, this is like super, super symbolic

and super like, it's just, it just encapsulates the elegance of Bitcoin, right? How it's so simple,

but it's so complex, it's as simple as you want it to be, and it's as complex as you want it to be.

All in just one single piece of code, you know, it's,

uh, yeah, it's fucking beautiful.

I want like a, I want like a hoodie and a t-shirt with it on it, or maybe a hat,

and I don't, you know, and I know that sometimes it's like, sometimes I have mixed feelings about

like taking something that's fine art and then putting it on like merch, but I somehow,

I don't feel like this is reductive to that, like it, like just like a symbol just as a logo

itself. I feel like it's just, it's just cool. And then I agree, thank you for saying it, I agree,

take it in a painting and then into a sculpture, which I don't know if you have any news on the sculpture.

Um, well, the thing is, I kind of need to be there. Uh, it's in Rohatan,

plan to be in Rohatan, um, and so I kind of like need to take time out to be there to kind of get

that ball rolling. Um, but there's, I've had, you know, uh, yeah, it's basically everything's in

place where it to start happening, you know, so I'm super excited about that. Um, and I just need to,

basically now it's getting this painting done. That's my top priority, and then I can kind of like

depending on how that goes, plan the, the rest of the year, um, around that, you know.

And you mentioned smaller sculptures and he thought, yeah, what about like material wise,

like what even if you did like metal ones that were like all the time, like etched onto the metal

or something, I don't know exactly. You had any three deep print them, you can do all sorts. In

fact, actually, uh, good opportunity to ask if there's anyone out here who's good with 3D printing

software and hardware, reach out please, because I would love to, uh, to see how feasible that is.

I know it's very feasible. I want to do it. So reach out if you, if you're good with that kind of

stuff, please, because I know it looks or BTC pins. Uh, I don't know if BTC pins is doing

pretty much everything, but he does, he does have a laser who needs been kind enough to help me

make sense. He actually laser the wood panel at this piece of art painted on. Shout out BTC pin.

He's also sponsored point art magazine. And so is crypto cloaks, shout out crypto cloaks,

but uh, this 3D printing wizard. So he'd be a good, absolutely, absolutely. Good idea.

And then printer go burr. I don't, I'm trying to think what his name is, what the handle is, but

I guess I know a couple that I could ping you over. You get the least. Yeah, cool. I mean, once again,

this is something that I have to wait till after Vegas for, because, you know, if I don't sell

this painting, then it's back to the, I don't know, man. Uh, so I kind of let have to like,

to, you know, what I do from going forward depends a little bit on the funding I have for the,

for the rest of the year, just a little bit dependent on that. So, but yeah, um, I would love to do

that. I would love to, to be able to go into, because people asked about it, you know, when I did

that video, I said, oh, can you make a, like, paperweight version and all this stuff? So, um,

I would love to, I would love to get, make it as ubiquitous as possible, man. We'll get it out there,

get it out there because, um, yeah, because it, because it is so, it does seem to touch people.

And I just love it when, when something so, so in a way, so cold and clinical can, um, create this,

you know, this, um, uh, emotional response. It's, it's incredible to me. It's beautiful.

I, uh, I might be, be partial to shapes and cubes and, and so forth, but, uh, I,

I don't know you. Yeah. It's funny. And maybe there's a little bit also of like a once you know,

you know, kind of thing with it. And so once you understand, kind of like, yeah, it gives me,

I'm experiencing the same feeling I experienced once I understood what infinity slash 21 is.

And the reason someone would go and get infinity slash 21 tattooed on them, like that,

that, that, yeah, right. I'm like, I know what this is. And it has like a lot of meaning behind it.

And so I feel like this is a really cool, almost evolution of, of that because at least for a

cube with more cubes on it is much more visually appealing than like eight slash 21, you know,

as, as, as beautiful as it is. And it's in, in, in its own simplicity of, of text, text-based,

um, you know, presentation, uh, cube is just, I mean, that's a square with cube with cubes on it.

And I know that's just, that's just gorgeous. I'm gonna, dude, I want to, I want to design a family

crest around this for real. I'm not kidding. Um, yeah, it's, it's, it is a beautiful thing.

Yeah. And I'm just, I feel just like, I feel so honored to have been entrusted with this mission,

you know, and I'm going to honor that as best I can, you know. Yeah.

Um, no, it's exciting. We're sitting with painting cell for top sats in Vegas. So anybody's

listening to this and you, once again, don't have any idea what we're talking about. Go and check

out on Twitter and check out his pinned video. There's a great little explainer with a infographic

visual, visual explainer that he made. And keep an eye out for when his painting drops. And,

um, keep an eye out, because, uh, I think your painting's probably going to be a little bit out of

my budget, but prints maybe or smaller sculptures or something. So, yeah, man, I'm gonna do it for all

sat ranges. Sorry. Yeah. From the, from the, from the, from the pleb to the whale from the,

the shrimp to the beluga. That's beautiful. The whole ocean, you know, being fitted in

staker to the. Yeah, man. Yeah. Well, absolutely. Absolutely.

Another, another thing, actually, I realized yesterday, um, I'm talking about like,

recognizability of like, um, of, of certain mathematical symbols, right? It's just kind of like,

and especially geometric ones, you know, I was like, hugely drawn as, have you been, uh, to sacred

geometry for a period, you know, just like I went all in on that, like building macabas and all of

this stuff, right? Um, and in a way, though it isn't obviously traditionally sacred geometry,

um, I, I've recognised something yesterday. Uh, I read this article about 369. And in this,

the cube is inherently 369 because it's got, it's 3d, it's got 6 side, it's got, uh, 12,

which breaks down to three edges. It's got, uh, uh, in a two, these projections, it's got three

faces and six sizes of hexagon with nine. So it's, it's all 369, right? And in this article,

and I posted it, um, it's also talking about the fat, the doubling pattern, the one that is

on the, the faces, right? One, two, four, eight, but this numerically breaks down to a, to a sequence,

which excludes 369. So it's one, two, four, um, five, seven, eight. And that repeats ad infinitum.

So, all right. So it's like this pattern. So by applying this pattern that, that, you know,

doesn't have 369 to this cube, which is 369, it brings forth this like super beautiful 369,

because like 21 million, it's three, uh, two, seven, six on the sides is nine, I think? No, six,

um, and it's such a, so all of the numbers, or a lot of the numbers in this cube itself also fit

the 369 pattern. So it's this kind of like, uh, beautiful, um, kind of like juxtaposition of

these, these, uh, non-369s, which then give rise to this 369 thing. So there's this kind of like

sacred geometric, um, uh, aspect to it as well, which I obviously enjoy. Have you read through level 39s,

369, uh, post on Twitter with all the, all the, it's got all the 369s, yes, point. I have,

I don't know, I should do it again. Yeah, and you should quote tweet it on it on it, what you

were just saying and add that on, because that's, that's really, yeah, think about. And I, I,

I guess it's, that would be the same as in Bitcoin's halving, right? Is that 369 doesn't exist

within the halving sequence, but sometimes the lack of existence is equally,

brings it about existing, yeah, which is really interesting. And I, I'd never, yeah, never

thought about that. That's fascinating. I love it. Yeah, it's, I should definitely,

I want a cube. Can I get like a, can I get a, can I get a, can I get a, can I get a,

can I get a, can I get a, can I get a freaking stick? Yeah, man. Absolutely. It's funny. I was in

in Lugano. I was like, I want to find out print of it is what I want. Like a, like a sign

and do that for me. It's, it's, it should be a present. This is my, like my printing operation

is something I still need to get probably up running. Well, if you want, customers have discovered

how not up and running it currently is. If you want, I'm not going to pressure you, but you know,

we could do a, maybe we could do a print draw on the magazine website with the whole entire

universe cube. You were mentioning, yeah, let's do that. I'll get the, I'll need to get, I'd like

to do the print of the painting. So I need to get that done first. But yeah, let's do that.

Let's absolutely do that. Yeah, man.

Awesome. You get one, obviously, as the boss is present.

Studio proof. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Zero with 21.

Zero of 21. I got super exciting news on, on edition one of the magazine. I'm not going to say,

but really exciting, really exciting cover artist we've got lined up.

And the whole thing's coming along good. I'm excited for it. So we got to get a, I'm going to ask you

on air here, the whole entire universe, the podcast. You're getting the hiatus, an artist,

you know, I have to, all entire universe that you can work on the whole entire universe.

Exactly.

I'm glad for our, uh, vivacious listeners, if you're going to be coming back.

Yeah, absolutely. I just needed to take it. It was everything that is not my painting is

stressing me out at the moment, basically, and I minimized stress for full, what's it called?

Streamlining of my life. Uh, no, it was, I just couldn't do it for the time being. But as soon as

Vegas has done, I'll be back on a monthly basis. And I'm going to take a different format

with a different name. And what I want to be doing is I want to be doing deeper diets. So

these will be pre-recorded sessions with, uh, you know, artists once a month and like going

as deep as possible, necessary, um, you know, so these will be proper, like, kind of archival

things. Like if you want to really like hear, um, someone, you know, unfettered by the

sands of time, uh, then, you know, listen to that one. And, uh, you know, see how they,

everything they have to say, or, you know, everything they want to say. That kind of thing.

Uh, I'm, I'm really excited for this. I think it'll be a very complimentary with what I'm doing

here, which is a little bit more light and shorter interviews, style, casual interviews. And then

you know, not is doing the movement of art that drops on the eighth and the 21st of every month.

And she's doing a little more like a round table panel format with three or different artists at

a time. So then you're doing a deep dive with an artist once a month. I think will be very

complimentary and it'll be a, well, nice little lineup of different audio gallery content for,

yeah, anybody interested in Bitcoin and Bitcoin, right? It forms a nice kind of trinity. Uh,

three, six, nine, I think, no, uh, I think it does. It's kind of like three aspects, you know,

I really like what you're not doing. Her panel thing is super cool. Um, so yeah, it's like three

different, three different things. And I think it's, I think they'll work really well together.

Awesome. Well, I'm excited to have you back and me too. Me too. It'll be good. All right,

we're almost at our mark here. So I figure let's, let's slowly wind it up here. I'm going to drop

real quick. We got a coupon code for a free copy of the Genesis Edition of Bitcoin Art Magazine.

The coupon code is usable at BitcoinArtMagazine.com. And it's a $42 coupon, which gets you a free

copy of the Genesis Edition. The coupon code is Bitcoin Art 42069. And that's Bitcoin with a capital B

Art with a capital A 42069. That's Bitcoin Art 42069 capital B and capital A.

That sounds like an awful lot of fun.

We will see. I will still be doing. I'm going to be dropping, uh, for the next, I think in the next

two months or so here, I'll be dropping a coupon code for free copy of the Genesis Edition on

each of these episodes. First come first, sir. So whoever heard that and went to the website and

got it, got it. Um, well done. On it, it's been great chatting with you here today. I feel like

we could just talk on for hours and hours. I don't feel like it. I know that we could. So we're

just going to have to do another one soon. And I'm going to have to do the deep dive on myself,

right? You're going to have to do the deep dive on yourself. I love to do the deep dive on me

and see what you can see what you can bring. I love that. Absolutely, man. So I look forward to that.

I've got some of the questions I have to, uh, to, to throw at you as well, man.

Have I done a good job of maintaining an era of mystery about me? Dude, I still have no idea who

you are. In spite of the fact that we, we have spoken many, many times in the last, uh, half year or

so. You've maintained it perfectly. I talked little bits, uh, on some other podcasts I've been on

and stuff. I'll say, I say, say more and more bits and pieces here and there. I mean, it's not

anything like crazy or really that mysterious, but I do. Uh, I have, I have chosen the

Grayman theory here in the Bitcoin space and been as pseudonymous as possible within reason.

But yeah, I would love to, that would be awesome. And we should definitely do that. And we should

also definitely share episode with you because I think that I'm excited to hear more about, I don't

know, upcoming stuff and ideas and things here. And I want to talk just more about the whole

entire universe because what a, what a, you know, wild, there's lots in it. Everything it is.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Cool. And I've really enjoyed the session of it. It was fun going

into these kind of like the, the, the, the, the, the, the back quarters and stuff like that. It was,

yeah. I think people are really interested by like where people come from. I know that I am,

and I feel like with Twitter and social media and this, you know, the Bitcoin space being so

international, kind of digital in many, in so many ways. A lot of times we like don't really know

that much about each other and, and it's kind of, you know, people, but like you actually don't know

anything about them. And so, or about where we come from, I think is, is good and is bringing,

bringing us back to the back to our humanity a little bit in this rapidly increasing AI

landscape that we're living in. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. What is a noble cause?

That's going to be, that's going to be the biggest question of the coming years, right?

I think it's beautiful. It's like, to me, it's had the first time we've actually had a problem

mirror on who we are as humans. By the fact that there is now a decidedly non-human,

replicant version, we are being shown what is human. And it's rapidly coming to light and it's

super cool. I love it. I love it. So, I'm a human maximalist, man. Human maximalist.

I've always loved humanity. In spite of the attempts to propagandize me against it,

all right. Hey, you got to tell me where can listeners discover your artwork follow along.

And maybe a part of artwork may be indeed as, yeah, I mean, I'm mostly, I'm pretty active on Twitter,

man. It's at Arnick Malcolm, spelling right there. There's also Arnick Malcolm.com,

which I could be a little bit more diligent refreshing, but I tend to do that whenever there's been

like an exhibition or whatever. There's more like an archive. And then on my nostril as well,

I could be better at doing that. Also, Arnick Malcolm, it's just Arnick Malcolm. And that's

pretty much it, really. Mostly just on Twitter, man. That's the thing. Awesome. Well, I appreciate

you taking the time here today with me. And thank you, man. Thank you. Yeah. Like I said, I look

forward to doing it again. I guess any last words you got for anybody and upcoming events

is going to be Vegas is the next. It's going to be Vegas. I understand that people don't want to,

you know, there's lots of anti-vegas sentiment. I fully get that. However, at the same time,

I know that we artists form a frigging great core of the real-ass morphos there. And it's always

super fun. And I really look forward to meeting everyone, again, those that are coming and those

who I haven't met before, you know, it's going to be super nice. So I really look forward to it this

year. It's going to be great. Yeah. Basically, all I have to say, keep on doing your thing, man.

I mean, yeah, I have to, I mean, I personally support a lot of the anti-vegas sentiment for various

reasons, but it is still the world's largest Bitcoin art gallery that gets held every year. And

there's something to be said for that. And so, you know, I'm going to be glad that she's just

coming out in the art gallery, coming out with us in the gallery. Yeah, exactly. Just like,

you know, he's come to where the signal is. Exactly. He said it for me. Having said that,

man, though, I'm really happy to hear that the fractal know that that's the first one. I'm really

happy that he's that he is curating Prague this year. Man, that's going to be phenomenal.

There will be a gallery at Prague. There will be. And he sent out invitations as well. I mean,

like, publicly posted invitations for that. So if you haven't seen it yet, go check it out.

Because yeah, that would be super cool. I would love to go to Prague. And I'll probably also be going

to the, which is so conveniently, just a few days before in in in in in Warsaw in Poland.

There's a Bitcoin film festival. Yeah, just a few days beforehand. So I'll probably be going to

that and then Prague afterwards probably. So that'll be a fun little time in June. So if you're this

side of the Atlantic, then go check those things out. That will be cool. Awesome. All right.

Well, really, really good. We're just pushing an hour here. I see. Let's wrap it up. And

if you're listening, go check out Onyxwork at onyxmelcom.com. Go follow him on Twitter. Check out his

pinned tweet and keep an eye out for his painting that will be in the Bitcoin Vegas Art Gallery

auction. Is it going to, are you going to auction it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I kind of have to

write this. Yeah. Awesome. There's an option. Yeah. Yeah. Check it out. Super awesome.

I'm putting you over there, man. Also, no, thank you so much for another great chat. It's been

super enjoyable. Thank you, man. Thanks for staying up late for it for it.

No, absolutely. I, I, I, I, this was really good. And this is the Bitcoin Art podcast. My name

is also Noah. I'm the founder of Bitcoin Art Magazine. You can pick up your copy of the world's

first Bitcoin Art Magazine at BitcoinArt Magazine.com. And you can listen to more episodes like

this one at BitcoinArtBroadcast.com. That's BitcoinArtBroadcast.com. So I appreciate you all.

Thank you to anybody who made it to the end here. Shout out. I see you. And I'm small, a wonderful

night or day or morning. Onyx, you have a great rest of your day. Thank you, you too, man. I'm off

to paint some dots. All right, dude. Take it easy. Peace out.