Ariel Birdie, Flo Montoya, Antonio Batzu & Psyfer on Stories & Myths | The Movement of Art w/ Yonat Vaks Ep. 2

History evolves in spirals. We rise, we fall and we rise again. Each time with new tools

and new ways to imagine the world we want to live in. Today, that tool is Bitcoin. It's

a new form of money and it's a new form of meaning.

Año Natvax, an artist imagining a more conscious and free world through different mediums

and stories. And this is the movement of art. In each episode, I sit down with artists,

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hope spread through creativity. New episodes will be released on the 8th and 21st of each month

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through art, ideas and meaningful conversations. Join us in orange-pilling the world through beauty,

stories and so on. The second episode of the movement of art and today we're going to talk

stories and myths, which stories are basically the technology that we as humans use to pass on what

matters. And so I thought it would be a great introduction to these series of talks that we

that we're going to dive deep into different ways that bitcoin artists are using

are portraying bitcoin. So we're going to start with stories. Also because I think if we look at

bitcoin, it's also a beautiful myth in its own. It's something that started, you know, it's this

anonymous creator that came and brought something to humanity. There's the hero journey of

plebs that are learning this and all of the people that are doing new things

with bitcoin. And we're going to talk a little bit about these things, about creator stories and about

heroes, journey and different parts of stories. But before we go into that, I want to introduce

the incredible artists that we have today that each of them uses stories and myths in different

ways in their art. So we have Flow Montoya, Ariel Birdie, Antonio Batzu and Cypher and each of them

going to let each of them introduce themselves and talk about one of their artworks

that uses myths and stories to kind of tell how they see bitcoin or the values that they're

trying to portray using these myths. So Flow, let's start with you.

There's two works of yours that really catch my eye because I think they have so much meaning in

them. I remember listening to one of your talks that you said that when we look back and when we

take a reference from some other story or from some other image or painting, we're kind of taking

all the meaning from that painting into our painting, into what we're doing. And you have two paintings,

one bitcoin is hope and one bitcoin is revolution that talk to two very famous paintings, the

Ratham Medusa and Liberty Leading the People. And these paintings, I mean, these paintings also

speak to other paintings, right? Like Liberty or the Ratham Medusa speaks to judgment day to

Michelangelo's judgment day. And so they kind of carry all of these stories. So tell us, first of all,

tell us a little bit about yourself for those who don't know you. And also how

what did you take from these paintings into yours? What is the story you're telling?

And these works. Hey, hi, Janet. Thank you so much for having me here today. I am Flamontaya.

I am a visual artist. I like, you could say traditional ways of creating, like I draw, I paint,

I do screen printing, I etching and those type of techniques I really like. And it's

yeah, I discovered bitcoin by accident, I will say thanks to my family. And for me,

creating about bitcoin started as a way of trying to understand bitcoin more deeply.

Because at the beginning, I would just like, I don't know, I will listen to my family and say,

like, okay, this is a good investment or something like that. And I had some savings. I was very good

at a young age. I started working and I was very good to save. And it made sense to me that's

the better, but I didn't really understand it. And once I started like drawing about it and

creating about it, it started to make more sense. And then I realized I was, I felt the need to

communicate this to other people. Like, I was seeing this invasion, this creation was so wonderful.

And it felt hard to communicate that. And also, it felt like I was not doing good for the people

who knew me. If I wasn't telling them about it, I think that's the why we want to arrange people,

sort of start from that point. Like, we discovered this amazing thing and then it's like, how can I

not share this with these people? And in that pursue or search, I started, I think Beacon was

so big. And you could see it from so many angles. And it had so many important values that I

could not express them all in one image, in one piece of artwork. So I started focusing on some

aspects. And I started saying like, okay, for me, Beacon is justice because of this and that,

Beacon is freedom. And then it started to get a little bit more complex. Like, this is a revolution,

Beacon is a revolution. So that's when I connected the, so it started organically. Like, I didn't

need to realize at the beginning, like, I did Beacon is freedom. And for me, there is an icon of freedom.

And then when I wanted to see revolution, it got a little bit more complex. Like, what's the

icon for revolution? So I got back to my roots and I used the paintings that I had known for my whole,

like, I don't know, life, but since I started learning about arts. And it's the same with hope.

When I learned about the raft of the Medusa study in art school, it was referenced as a very

picture hopeful, these people are going to be in their whole life. And that's like, for me,

embrace what Beacon was for me and how I see it as a light of hope for humanity. And that's how

like the whole series started to get more shape and bigger. And I continue to do this.

Interesting. And did you, did you find, like, because I was, I, I went back to read about these

two paintings again. And did you know, I didn't know this, but I found out that, that Delacroix was one

of the, was one of the models, um, for, for Dericourt in, in the raft of Medusa. And did, did you know

that? I didn't know that. And so he was one of the models. And when he was so inspired by this work,

I'm not sure it was the, it was the one that made him then, um, paint the liberty for the people.

But I think these two paintings are connected to each other in, in some way. So, um, also like

their history together. So that's really interesting. I think something you mentioned at the

beginning is like for me. And when you study art history, you realize that they, they were not,

like they didn't have the same ideas of intellectual property at the time. So it was very common to

copy paintings or to quote paintings or to take one aspect of it and then do something else about

it and create on top of it, so to say. So, uh, what, what you said, like this guy was inspired by

this other guy. And that, that, that chain, um, one creation inspires another creation and so on.

Uh, so I, I really liked that aspect. I'm not, uh, I, I don't really believe much in

intellectual property. And I, I think that, uh, you create and you are able to create something

new each time. And then your creation is not really yours once is in the world. It's like,

it's very weird. And I know it's like a controversial opinion because artists, like,

we struggle and it's hard. And then if you don't have intellectual property, it's even harder. But,

uh, yeah. So I think when I saw this meaning and I wanted it, I think it's like, it's so perfect.

I just need to add like the, the topping of Bitcoin to it. Like it's already has the meaning that

I want to express. I don't need to do anything new. So what I do is I try to change the,

the medium, like if it's a painting, I'm gonna try to do drawing or like, you know, so,

so that it's like adding, adding what I want, the layer, but also like recognizing that it is

quoting this, this other artwork. Yes, definitely. And we'll talk more about that, um,

later in, in, in what it means to reference stories and myths. So,

Antonio, you, your work, you do a lot of work about the sea. Like I think it's like a common,

um, it's like a common thread that goes through the work, at least the work that, that you're showing

that's connected to, to Bitcoin. And I couldn't help but wonder if that's connected to, so you,

you come from Sardinia, which, you know, the, the Mediterranean and that, that area is so full of,

of culture and stories with, um, see people, right, with trade and, and, and boats and, and a very

big connection to the sea. So, um, first of all, also introduce yourself for those that don't,

don't know you who you are. And, and also, is that, is that something that, that you feel that

you're where you come from, your tradition is reflected in your art, the stories of your, of,

of where you come from. Yes, um, Sardinia is an island, you know, in the middle of a Mediterranean

sea, in the center. And it's very important in my work. I'm a, I'm a ceramist, I'm a potter.

And, um, I started making ceramics, making, taking inspiration from the sea of Sardinia because I'm,

uh, I love, uh, water, stay near the water, rivers, lakes, uh, and the sea, obviously. And, um, I

started because I love, uh, fishes. You can see some fish here, and other, here, and, um, stay in

the nature, explore, and things like, and then I started making ceramics, um, uh, uh, creating

sea creatures like fishes and corals and other things like that. But, uh, basically in my work,

I, I put my patients, one is, uh, is these, uh, the sea and the fishes. The other one is

history and archaeology because, uh, here in Sardinia, we have a really ancient history,

uh, um, thousands of here before Romans and, uh, other famous people from Mediterranean sea.

Um, Sardinia is also geologically really ancient. It's like, uh, is one of the ancient lands, uh,

uh, uh, coming out of the sea in, uh, ancient times. But, uh, we have a, um, really ancient

history of, uh, civilization here. Starting last 5,000, uh, here before Christ, we have in a

Neolithic, uh, Neolithic age. We have a lot of archaeological site here, uh, from that time,

and, uh, after maybe the, the peak of civilization in Sardinia was in the Bronze Age,

in the Nouragic culture. And, um, if, uh, Italy is famous in the world for, uh, archaeological

sites, uh, is R2C, so to, but Sardinia is ever, uh, I guess, uh, um, number of archaeological

sites for, for a kilometer square. Uh, we have thousands of towers and, um, buildings with, uh,

big stones like megalithic sites. And, um, in the Bronze Age, in the peak of Nouragic civilization,

we have, uh, like something like the 10,000, uh, towers around the, the island. With, uh, very

particular, um, true, very, very different from other cultures to, to, to Mediterranean.

Some similarities to Spain. Uh, we have a lot of coordination in that time with Spain,

but it's really unique. Um, uh, famous archaeologists, uh, that, uh, create the, the, um,

history, study at the history of Sardinia said that we have basically two

cult, major culture in, uh, in, um, in Mediterranean Sea. We have the Greek culture and, uh, from,

from East, the, um, orient, oriental, uh, civilization. If we have, uh, the Barbarian

West civilization. And, uh, Sardinia was the, uh, probably in the, in that time, or the most important,

uh, civilization in this area, but is, uh, nobody knows this, uh, is not famous like, um,

um, culture or, uh, a Greek or Missinian. On, uh, or the, uh, uh, it, uh, it, it, uh, it, uh, it,

uh, it, uh, it, uh, it, uh, in emperor or a Egypt is because it's a, uh, relatively small island,

but from people like me that I born here, so I feel, uh, very strong roots

with my island. You have these strange things. You know the importance of your own history,

but nobody around you. I think it's becoming more and more, I think it's becoming more and more

known. I've heard it. I think there's more and more interest in it, sorry.

Recently, yes, there are a lot of archaeologists come around the world to study this civilization.

And this is a really big patient for me and I studied a lot of

this culture and when I, the strange aside of the history is this. When I started to

study and go deeper in the Bitcoin universe, I started to see similarities around the story

and the importance to tell my own history. So I started to create art,

taking inspiration from the symbols of the island.

Using, using, like you mentioned before, the C people. The C people is like,

come on, come you say, it's like a paper. I can translate a paper in English.

There is, there is a story, like a myth from a Bronze Age, then like a confederation of people

and around the Mediterranean, like from Sardinia, Corsica, the Etruria when they were the Etruscan

from Sicily and some part of the Akean universe, then confederate themselves

probably because there was climate crisis, they confederate themselves and then they create a lot

of trouble to all the eastern civilization of the Mediterranean Sea, destroying everything,

like they call the Dark Age of a Bronze Age. And I started to look to this narration

because the major empire of the time, like it hit empire and the Egyptian empire collapsed.

And for me, the similarity was, centralized power is as being destroyed by a confederation

of small people. I put this, I take this narration for some of my work, created this series,

it's called Sea People, to celebrate people from around the Mediterranean Sea.

Yeah, so like a decentralized way to, that's a part of the story, not like the decentralized way

to take down like the central powers. Okay. This is the narration, the major narration.

That's the story. Okay. Yes. Nice. Okay. So Ariel, you use a lot of stories, the stories and myth

that you use go back sometimes thousands of years. And one of the, one of your paintings that

has so many symbols inside is the Bitcoin prophecy or the Bitcoin Zuvuya, if that's out, pronounced.

Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and about this painting, like what are the symbols

in it that you took from, from the Mayan culture and what do they mean to you today?

We can't hear you. Your mic is off. Thank you. Yeah, I've been drawing and painting and such for a long

time. And always been like enchanted and mesmerized by like the mystery of any ancient peoples

with an emphasis on Mesoamerica just because that's like where I've gotten to go mostly because I'm in

North America. And I found myself just like doing a lot of reproduction of whatever I could find

from early on just because I liked it so much and because of that represented that that mystery

of ancient knowledge. And so I've been pretty true to just straight, straight across reproductions

of imagery. And I still like to do that. And you'll find that a lot in my artwork. And around,

you know, started learning about Bitcoin, buying Bitcoin in like 2017, 2018. And it took me a

couple of years to, you know, have the idea to merge it with my artwork. And since then,

it's been very fulfilling. I really like merging the symbols and the things I can find from the past

and then merging them with Bitcoin. I think there's a lot of meaning there, a lot of potential for

interpretation. I might throw together something that maybe I'm not even sure the full potential of

its meaning or what it, you know, but I'm still going to put it out there. Even if that might,

maybe cause some offense or misunderstanding, I'm still going to make it and put it out there

as long as I've like, I like the imagery. I find it beautiful. And I feel it's going to further

take us along the way to thinking about these concepts. And like some of the questions, you know,

you sent me, they're all very provoking. And it's good food for that. So I'm going to keep making it.

The Zavuya was one of my earliest pieces. It took a while to put that together. So if you've seen

the, the piece, it's, that's almost like a totality of all the Mayan imagery that I'm familiar with.

I just squished it into one piece with, with the theme being Zavuya is like,

I think it was a term popularized in the 1970s, like new, new age movement, but it is taken from a

term that means like a, like a circuit board, like a, like an actual electric circuit that just goes

around and around itself. And it's like, if time exists at all, it's, it has a circuit from

whom's common source future and pass flow equally and always meeting and being united in the present

moment. And I thought that since, since the Mayans are known for their, their prophetic ways,

they were definitely, they lived through their own prophecies. They would use their calendar

system based on the, you know, movement of stars and planets and the sun's patterns to actually

just divine their own, say, planting cycles and such. But then they also had very long term

prophecy as well. And so I haven't proved it or anything. And I, something I want to look into

and I invite other people that are into it to look into that with me, but the idea being that Mayans,

of course, they sense the like far off movements and eras and big, and big things that happen.

And so Bitcoin being something that we, we're privileged to be a part of because it's so new

in, in our modern cycle, but that the Mayans must have sensed that and what it, what it means for

humanity. And so I, that's what that piece is about is their, their ability to navigate the, the future.

And then also our, our potential to reach back into the past and see the similarities there

with our, with our struggles. And you know, just basic foundations of what it is to be human.

And that's, that's a little nutshell about that, about that piece. There's a lot of imagery in

there. And again, I just, I took like all the sites that I was familiar with. So there's little

depictions in that piece that are like the temples from Tikal and Guatemala. Some of the statues from

Kirigua and Guatemala. A link a, and then around the border is, is a lot of the day signs from their

calendar and, and they're just put in their random lane. Like they don't, I didn't spell anything out

in there, particularly in Mayan. It is, but it's probably if you were to read it and you, you know,

how to read their phonetics and their calendars, you'd be like, good, this is jibber jabber. I'm not,

I'm not sure. Yeah, it's really, you know, I, I listened to, to a talk once within, within archaeologists

that works in that area, and especially in the, in the Amazon forest. And, you know, because when

we look at ancient civilizations and things that they, they taught us or things that we see, we always,

you know, we talk about Egypt and, and, and Greece and, and Rome. And, and he says, you know,

these cultures, a lot of them lived in, in the jungle. And the jungle eats, eats up all the evidence

kind of. So it's like there, there's not, you know, there, there's so much that we don't know.

And just from the little that we know, there's, we can see how rich that culture was. And, and I think

by bringing in, you know, the symbols from there. Yeah, they have a lot of, a lot of,

they carry a lot of weight with them into the stories of today.

Okay, so cypher, thank you for your patience. And tell us a little bit about yourself, about the

cypher monk house. And, you did a performance piece that's called Prometheus. So if you can

tell us about that. Yeah, thank you for having me. Just a second, Ariel, can you put the, can you,

because I think there's like background noise, thank you. Sorry, go ahead. Yeah, thank you.

Having me, yeah, I'm cypher. I'm a British London-based bitcoiner. And I started the cypher monk house

two years ago as a kind of cultural space for Bitcoin in London. And I've been running like

meetups and events in London for like four years. But yeah, I'm really more of a creative practitioner,

have a background in performance and film and theatre and things. But I kind of got into the Bitcoin

art space making conventional fine art and started with a show there and have since gone on to,

yeah, going back into making performance art because, yeah, we need all the art forms in Bitcoin.

So, yeah, last year I created a piece called Prometheus. Well, I mean, it was actually initially

called Wonder Rabbit. And that's kind of maybe since become a moniker I will use. I seem to be

always coming up with new monokas as you can see today are myths 21-21. But that was a name

that we came up for the idea of, yeah, a few people that want to create physical work to tell Bitcoin

stories. And yeah, I think the Prometheus myth is a myth that many Bitcoin writers and thinkers

have allighted on during the parallels between humankind getting fire and humankind getting

Bitcoin. I think Prometheus is also kind of a deeper myth because it really also talks about the

kind of creation of mankind in itself and the birth of men and women. So I think it's kind of,

it's got some quite foundational elements to it. And I think it also touches on that idea that

really kind of technology comes before culture. You create a new thing, you create fire, you create

Bitcoin, and actually then what comes next is a cultural deluge of new ideas and new direction

for people to kind of form around a new technology. And I think that's what we're seeing today

in this 21st century revolution of like, again, people draw the parallels to the Renaissance.

You know, we're seeing this boom because all of us are allighted by a new technology.

And the politics will be worked out way, way down the line. First, we've got to shape this culture.

And yeah, beauty is an amazing way to do that. So yeah, that's a little bit about my vibe.

Okay, thank you. And do you want to tell us a little bit about the Cypher monk house?

Sorry. No, no, go ahead. Yeah, the Cypher monk house is a kind of empty building that I got

hold of in order to do my first art show waste paper. So we launched that two years ago, and then

yeah, just ongoing discussions with the owners. It's an empty meanwhile space that we've just

been allowed to kind of set up a crazy psychopathic den of space in London. So it's kind of

unique in its in its many qualities. But yeah, it's a bit we run lots of events with it with a

few close collaborators and yeah, mainly focusing on education and community things. And I obviously

just try and make sure there's a rich kind of cultural thing going on. We've had several art

exhibitions. We've obviously done some performance stuff. And yeah, I'm always looking to find bridges

because I think I think culture is the bridge, which will bring in so many more people into Bitcoin

because yeah, and I've seen it, I've seen it firsthand, young people, people who I'd never

think would have any interest in something that on surfaces complete finance and technology,

when they see pictures on the wall and when they can see something like a chair painted with

some Bitcoin colors, I mean, it starts to open up all these questions. So having physical space to

kind of showcase the culture and have opened doors to new people is a kind of essential thing. And

again, that's, you know, the part of that I like with performance is that overlap with ritual

and community building and culture. It seems very like overlapping in my world. So yeah, it all

kind of blends into a mélange of Bitcoin psychopathy, basically. That sounds amazing. I would

really love to come to come see it sometime. And I completely agree that I think,

you know, what all of us are doing here, the art and the culture is one of the best ways to show

people what Bitcoin is, what all of it is, you know, what freedom is, what decentralization is,

because they're concepts that are so hard to grasp, I think. And when you see visually or

performance art or music, it kind of, you can understand it, I guess, from a different, from a

different way. So, you know, I think when we think about Bitcoin and when you look at the art

that's being done, and generally, even if you look on X or Noster or there's so many,

there's already like a myth around it, there's already phrases, there's already like this story.

And I think one of the, one of the biggest stories that maybe we don't name it as a story,

but it's kind of something that people talk about when they talk about their Bitcoin journey,

is the hero's journey, you know, the kind of journey that makes every story a great story,

the story that you encounter something, some kind of challenge, and you decide to confront it,

and you learn things from it. So, I kind of look at the story of when someone learns about Bitcoin,

and then they go down this rabbit hole, and then all of these things start happening,

you know, all these difficulties happen, you have to figure out what it is, you have to figure out

how to use a wallet, you may sometimes lose your keys, or get scammed, or fun, and it's kind of like

this path you have to go through. So, if this is like, if we look at how people discover Bitcoin

as a hero's journey, as a story, how would you say this is a question to anyone that wants to answer it?

Like, how would you say this story ends for most people? Do most people,

like, what's the turning point that makes you, you know, confront

Darth Vader, or who is Darth Vader? Who's Yoda in this in this story?

I kind of think that, I mean, if I understand the question correctly, like, people who are

discovering Bitcoin are already in a journey that leads to it, like, it's still not as massive,

and as, even if it is, like, I've been telling my friends for years now, like, learn about Bitcoin,

just do this. Like, it could help you solve so many of your problems, and they just don't care.

So, you had to be in a special mindset. So, I think you already know the, what you are,

like, like, going against, like, you already had an idea of the evil that would be the Darth Vader.

So, I think the one when you go into Bitcoin, and you already have these thoughts,

even if they're not, like, completely formulated, it's easy to recognize

when you enter the Bitcoin space and your start learning, like, why is this such an important

tool and a big opportunity to make real changes in life and, like, to defeat this Darth Vader?

I don't know if it, like, if you guys agree, but I think, and I also see that, like, when people

go into Bitcoin only because it's, like, the bull market and everyone is talking about Bitcoin and

stuff, and then they, they don't only identify this, this idea is because they don't have,

they haven't made their work before the handle, like, the proof of work, and then they are out of

Bitcoin, like, no, this was nothing, and it's gonna fade, and it's gonna go to zero and blah blah.

Okay, and so there's also, like, another figure in a lot of stories is the trickster, right?

It's like a figure that comes in and all of a sudden creates chaos, and creates, like,

makes us think in the story, you know, if the hero is going through something,

and then comes this character that mixes everything up and says, oh, but things don't actually have

to be this way. And I think if we look at maybe the fiat story, then maybe Bitcoin is like the

trickster in the fiat story, but I'm gonna challenge ourselves, all of us a little, and think,

if, is there a trickster in the Bitcoin story? Is there a character or something that comes

into this story? Because it's easy, I think, a lot of times to look at this story and say, oh,

it's all, it's a myth, it's this thing that will fix the world, and, and, and it's like this

beautiful story, but is, is there also, like, a trickster or something that happens that can

create chaos in this story, and if so, who or why is that? Michael Seiler. Okay, why?

Why? Because he's, I mean, he's a classic trickster, right? He's, you know, he comes in promoting

one thing, he's doing both things, right? He's clearly working, you know, helping the states

agenda, you know, he's arguably, you know, already very deep in the whole state system, but yeah,

arguably he's also promoted Bitcoin to a massive degree, and helped a lot of, and explained it

very clearly, and got a lot of people into it, but like, you know, none of us can really call

what his angle is, and obviously his whole playbook is very much to empower his fiat kind of

stack in a, in a way that it's not really, he's not really helping everyone x the system, he's,

you know, so it's, it's kind of, his whole thing is, is a kind of flawed trickster kind of position,

I would say, I mean, he's not, he's clearly not, that he's not a central bank, although I imagine

he's kind of aligning himself in that way, and he's certainly not a pleb just trying to stack and,

and, you know, promote it and get everyone on board, he's kind of in this middle ground of kind of,

you know, financial circuit, circuitry, and just kind of, you know, leverages, and all the nonsense,

so, yeah, he's a trickster to me. Okay, and do you think the K, the K also, the trickster that he's

bringing is that, is that good, is that bad, is it good and bad, like a how, part of the story,

I think it makes the story more entertaining, right, and it, and it actually, you know, it challenges

people to, you know, the trickster is there to add challenge, I think, to the hero, but I mean,

my big thing is that I feel like the, the key is making sure that we cover all the stories,

you know, because I think the hero's journey puts a lot of people off, puts a lot of pressure on people,

and it kind of keeps us in this narrative of idolizing kind of individuals and gods and icons,

when, in fact, we need to be empowering communities and getting back to the grassroots,

so I feel like it's, yeah, but at the same time, you know, I think that some of the key heroes journey

stories that I've heard in my time are the key reasons that I'm a bit corner, and I think,

alternatively, as I'm sure all of us here do, so I think it's an important story, but we just

need to make sure we empower all of the stories and tell as many stories as in as many different ways,

but yeah, that's. Yeah, I agree. I think there are a lot of stories in this, and I think depending on

on which angle you look at it, there's different heroes as well, because you can look at, at like,

you know, you can say Satoshi is the hero, you can say like the grassroots pleb is the hero

in the story, it kind of depends on what what story we're telling.

There are all the tricksters that I think when you look like if you look to the to pass story,

and it's like fun to do that, when you think about the the block size war, that was like a full

trickster moment, and you didn't know what's what was going to happen, and it confuses you

and was this like done because of personal incentives, and people are what I try to capture

something, or is this because they really think it's going to be better for everyone, and I think

that was like a very fun trickster moment. Yes, I agree. That's also one of the moments I was thinking

at, and I think there's a lot of trickster moments actually that make us really ask what you know,

not just ask what what the values are, or how you see how you see this, but also challenge them,

right, because it's easy to say I have this in this value, but then, you know, I think when

in the end of Bitcoin is money, and when money is involved, you know, a lot of times your values

are challenged a lot, and it's really interesting to see where people take it, I think, so

if we go, can I just add a row, I think, when you in terms of speaking to people who don't know

about Bitcoin, I think in my mind it's always nice to think of the archetypes in terms of who you

embody when you speak to them, because to embody the hero and like live very purely, you're doing

the Bitcoin thing, and you're just living your thing, and that communicates that the thing you're

doing is good, like it's not always easy to do that, and sometimes it's easy to adopt the

mask of the trickster, and to start messing with people, because you know, then they are, it pulls

them in, a lot of people aren't going to aren't engaging with the conversation, it's hard to get

friends, family, whatever to engage with it, but if you start messing with them, and tricking

them and playing games with them, and not just giving it, oh, you've got to get into Bitcoin,

and start telling them, no, you shouldn't touch Bitcoin, it's not for you, and just start giving

them the reverse to keep people sharp, because otherwise I think people, it just, you know, we need to

challenge people's minds, and sometimes the challenge is to play the sailor or to, you know,

to play the countercard, but yes, what do I want to add? Yeah, I agree.

Yeah, and I think the trickster has many, you know, like the trickster and other stories that

has many faces, so you can use it in different ways, and you know, there's, I think there's a lot

of parts of, you know, we haven't talked about the, you know, there's always the wise person

that comes and leads the way, so, you know, who is that as well, and I think that's also a character

that changes according to how you see the story, or where you've heard the Bitcoin story as well.

So, if we go back to like using myths from the past, so, so I think a lot of us use myths that are,

that are sometimes thousands of years old, sometimes hundreds of years old, so, but we're telling a

story that's barely 20 years old, right? So, how, how do you bridge that gap? Like, do you,

doesn't need to be bridged or, or when we use a myth or a story from the past that

those symbols just as is, like how, how do those two things connect? Like, Antonio, if you want to

answer that, if that question was clear. Yes, okay. How, how did,

so, yeah, you're telling, you're, you're using stories from thousands of years ago to tell a story

that's very, very recent and very, like, compared to thousands of years old, it's very, very new,

or not, you know, so, how, how do those two things, how, you know, do you use the story as is,

or how do those things bridge? Okay, when I discovered Bitcoin, and I have to say, I started to

go deeper to Bitcoin, thanks to Michael Saylor, the trickster. The trickster.

And in the, I watch it, like, ten times, then, what money is with Robert Bridlow, the entire

series, and I started learning English also watching these, these, these, these series, but

was amazing because for the, for the first time, Michael Saylor is a great businessman, okay,

is maybe the trickster, for me, is not, is only an actor of a lot of actors in the, in the space,

maybe it's not me, I mean, character, maybe, is only an actor, I like a character, not an actor.

And, but the good thing about Michael Saylor's narration was they use a lot of

images, and it talked about history, basically, using Roman history, and the history of the brave

Steelers going to the West, the, the, the conqueror of the, the new world. And, and I started to think

to Bitcoin in this way, searching, searching other similarities with, with our culture.

I can do this only with West culture, like, because I, I'm born into this culture, and I know

more or less, my own culture, so I can create similarities, and I found very similarities,

with my own culture, basically. But, I started also seeing similarity with, like,

prophecies, and before, someone mentioned spirituality and religion also. And, like, like, you said,

before, you're not, the, the, the meat and the narration are a technology, basically. Like,

a code, you know, Gigi said, in some, in some speech, Bitcoin is a code that is like,

embodied, embodiment of, of speech. And, I started recently to, to watch, to Bitcoin, like,

the law was, in the ancient world, like, the ancient testament, we call the ancient testament,

was the law for the people, the set of rules, to organize society, and create separation from

the good and the heavy. So, create, like, the structure, the structure of the society.

And, the most important part of the law was, what is good for the people, for most of the people,

like, was, the human being tried to solve, create, like, a space, a safe space for, for the people

against the, the evil around, you know. And, it's the same thing that Bitcoin do, with going,

create, like, a safe space, universal access,

gifting free to everyone. And, and in this part, I start to see a lot of similarity with,

sacred, spiritual, and prophecies, with the, the promise of Bitcoin, Bitcoin, the promise of

Bitcoin is to give the true to everyone, give freedom and justice. It's the same thing that

and our religions and our historic, historic of the, the main, is the, is always the same thing.

This time, we have the power of the technology, but less. So, for me, is, I saw,

some time ago, a piece of art of Ariel, about Bitcoin is divinity. I remember your piece.

And, for me, is basically this, there is like a, a divine sea inside the, the Bitcoin. So, this is

my, my view. Interesting. Yeah, it has the same, a lot of times we can see the same,

yeah, the same basis, no? As, as these, these stories, we, you know, we look at it as,

sometimes as a creation story, almost. So, Ariel, I wanted to ask you, since you, you talk a lot

about rituals and religion, do you have a personal question? Do you have, like, rituals or practices

that are connected to your art, if you want to answer that? I can answer that, and that is,

that's a, no, I don't have a singular, like, practice. And more of like a, a big observer and

appreciator of, of all the other things and all the, you know, all the cultures and, and everything.

And, I consider myself a spiritual person, but, I don't have, yeah, I don't have a, I think the

closest thing would say to, my ritual is probably getting into the space that I want to be in,

feeling energized and happy and then making the artwork, but it's like the closest thing I get to

between, you know, making physical artwork, which is work itself, but it's very fulfilling.

And then something related to, like, movement and exercise and dance and martial arts, like,

that, those are my two things that I get me to feel like, I don't know what you're saying,

really, like, I'm worshiping the divine. I did want to touch on what Antonio was just saying,

because about Bitcoin being like a safe space, because I had answered one of your questions you

sent with what Bitcoin symbolizes for me is it's like a huge jump in the ability for humanity

to, to feel, you know, to practice spirituality or it's our, it's our evolution because it's,

it's akin to like the, the pyramid, the glass goes hierarchy and needs, so we feel,

if we can eat and, you know, fulfill our physiological needs and then we can feel safe and we can

feel loved. Bitcoin helps us do that. And then we can, then we can ascend to, like, being creative

and, and, and are more of our, like, spiritual growth. And he was, he was touching on that. And

I think that is something that seems really lost in modern society and they're, that's a theme I

like to pursue too. And my art is that there's, there's this, like, some sort of lost knowledge that

that humans had. And we, we've lost it. I would say we collectively, but, you know, not saying every single

person or anything, I'm just kind of like what we're putting out as a society right now, like what is

our, like, mainstream flavors and pursuits and, you know, all these things, it's, it's such a distinction,

you know, so that's myself. I'm just a big fan of, of that old stuff, of the, of the old world,

who's like a Jonathan Richmond song called, like, you know, by by old world, the old world,

hello new world, like, we've, we've really lost it. And, um, and I hope we hope we find it again,

whatever it is. But, um, Bitcoin, it's, it's exciting time to be alive because Bitcoin is just

in its very early stages of what, what it's going to do for us. And we'll see.

Can I add something to that? Yeah. I know that I find it super interesting because I think that it's

a symptom of, like, fiat world, that we get lost all these things that we have to focus on this

first, like, steps of this pyramid, like, you have to be always thinking about, like,

your physiological needs and, and struggling. And for most people, it's like, uh, race, like,

the, it really is like this, uh, red wheel. And once you discover, uh, anything that can help

you save money and therefore time, you can move on in this ladder. And then you can

actually have, uh, time to, to master a skill or to think or just to sit down and

be calm for a second. And I think for me, it, it has been Bitcoin, the, the thing that, well,

I am very blessed, like, I have a family that's who, it's very supportive and, and all that,

it's been Bitcoin mainly, like, as a tool that has enabled the possibility for me to develop a

skill that's, like, it takes so much time and, and you are like, you have to be present. It's very,

like, you were talking about the rituals, I think, creating in, in, not only in these techniques

that I do, if you want to do, like, a performance or anything you want to do, like, you have to master

the, the idea, you have to master the craft and you have to have time. And it's also, for me,

creating is very, like, like a meditation. And, and you are there in the moment with your thoughts

and, and, and looking at it. And I think one of the things that enables that is Bitcoin and,

and when you look at human history, when you see these moments of, like, so many cool

inventions and creations and art worlds, you can do a parallel and, and see that they probably

was, like, the gold standard or they weren't devaluating money as hardcore as they are doing it

right now. And so that, that chance to save money is actually, it's, it really is the time

battery. And then you decide how to spend it. Yes. Yes, absolutely. I think it's, it's, I think

a lot of people are just by, just by that, just by changing kind of the time preference, people

are opening up to, to, to a lot of new things. So a lot of different ways of, of living and, and

seeing the world. So I'm, I'm, I'm very conscious of, of time. And I know some of you need to go.

So I'm going to apologize because we have a lot of the technical difficulties in the beginnings,

which, which took a lot of our time. But I have one final question for each of you. And so if you

could answer, answer this question and also let everyone know where they can follow you, where

you are, your websites and, and everything. So the question is it's 2140. And the last bit going

has been mine. And maybe the world has completely transformed and it's on a Bitcoin standard and

everything is beautiful and lovely. And maybe it all failed spectacularly. And maybe the world is

full of humans living. And, and co-living with, with robots. And maybe there's aliens. And maybe

there's no humans in the world. We don't know. But someone finds your art in some kind of archive.

What do you hope they understand about this moment that we're living through now, through your arts?

So anyone that wants to start?

I can start. I would hope they see that we gave the fight, that we didn't surrender to the fiat

masters, that we didn't surrender our freedom. And that we, even if we lost, if there are no humans,

if there are humans, if everything is beautiful, whatever, that we, we did try and we did try to

actually fight it with, with beauty, with culture, with, with embracing like, like a whole spectrum

of it, like, from code to human, you know, abilities to, I don't know, concepts such as freedom, yeah.

That's really beautiful. Thank you. And flow tell us where we can follow you, your website.

Yes, I'm not that as active as I was on social media, but if you send me a message there, I'll

I'll see it. Maybe not in the second, but I will see it. And when I see it, I will answer you.

So I'm in Twitter. I use Instagram and I use Noster. And I have a website where you can also

reach me. And that's easier because then I receive an email. And that's an ungovernable.store.

Okay. Is there anything you're working on now that you want to tell us about?

Yeah, I'm, I'm living a very good moment. Last year was super hard for me. It was very stressful,

stressful. And I wasn't able to create much of it. It was, I was focusing on like,

creating projects and stuff like that. And that took so much energy from me. And now this year,

I'm focusing on just like, creating, I'm going back to like, taking more time, mastering skills.

So I'm working, I'm going to work on a new drawing as the same series of this that we were talking

about. And also based on a painting and it's, I'm going to use actually a Chilean painter. So

that's like weird because it's not very known worldwide. And I'm, I'm just, I'm going to continue

work on working on, on, on developing my skills and just trying to bring the highest quality I,

I can. Right. Well, I'm looking forward to seeing what you're making. Thank you.

I want to go next Antonio. My tool. So in the few tools, someone find one on my piece and said,

lucky guy, well, this was the beginning of the Bitcoin history. The early days.

And, yes, I hope they, they look as like lucky guys. We see the beginning. No, that's nice. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. And you want to tell us where, where we can find, where people can find you,

your website, social media. Yeah. Hello. I'm, I'm on X and I'm trying Noster. I'm beginner of Noster

and on Instagram. And I have a website. I just create recently. I'm working on it. He's Antonio

Batzu.com. And that's it. Okay. And is there anything you're working on now that you want to share?

Yeah. I'm, I'm working on the C people series. I'm creating, I'm working on another arc.

And I just, yes, I'm enjoying the, the process and the, like the project. I like it. Before

start to create, I'm in this, in this stage right now. I'm working on another ship is like another

Noah's arc. And the topic is the salvation. Okay. Okay. Your sculptures are really, really beautiful.

And thank you. I will write you later to ask about your technique, because I think it's really beautiful.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How cool and other stuff. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

Ariel. Yeah. So I really hope that by 20 140, there is less

division and struggle in the world. But if they were to look back to see a piece of artwork and

realize that the struggle is really part of the process and that being aware of that. And with

that in mind, I'm going to read a very short summation of the myth of Sisyphus from Greek mythology,

where Sisyphus is punished by the gods to roll a boulder up a mountain every day, only for it to

roll back down each time it nears the top. And there is the book by Albert Kamu called myth of

Sisyphus, where his interpretation is that within humanity's search for meaning, Sisyphus is

fully aware of the pointless nature of his tasks, but takes comfort in being aware and finds meaning

itself in the struggle. That's a little something. I hope people look back on all our artworks and

you know, realize that it's connected to yeah, these myths and everyday stories.

That's yeah, that's a beautiful connection. And I think it's very relevant to today, you know, to

to this search for what's the search for meaning in humanity in general, what's the connect, you know,

how how how that search returns in different times and how it's changed throughout history and how

that looks today. And can you tell us where where we can find you? I have a nice little website

that's been updated and it'll have all my socials on it. And it's aerial birdie.com,

ARIEL, b-i-r-d-i-e.com. Yeah, you can you can get on there see some not super recent, but like my

my main works that I've you know shown up since I've shown up in the Bitcoin art space and

also my socials are on there. And right now I'm just working on my submissions for B-26

Las Vegas and moving on with etching, learning etching, copper plate etching.

Okay, we're looking forward to seeing those. And thank you.

I'm sorry for. Thank you.

Yeah, I guess if people in the future found my work in an archive, I hope I just hope they

would laugh or smile or something like that. And I just hope they have the capacity to still do

that. I hope we still have the capacity to feel and be emotional in a hundred years time and we're

not just robots. So yeah, that would be the hope for that. And yeah, I think the SIS of us

analogy is really interesting because this, you know, I feel like the thing that we've been pushing

up the hill for so long is just trying to stay afloat financially. Like that is the metaphorical

rock that we're all trying to keep up with. And actually I look forward to the day when actually we

can, you know, we can just be being creative and pushing up a rock that just has no purpose,

but it has some purpose for ourselves. But maybe from the outside world, it seems like madness. But

um, yeah, I hope in 20 and 40, it's no longer the fear rock that we keep, we're keeping trying

to stay on top of, yeah. Or maybe there is no rock. Hmm. We can let go of it. Indeed. Indeed.

And I just realized that you say archive. So thank you for that as well.

Um, you know, I, I pronounced it wrong. So, um, I'm sorry, that's just the little thing. Um, can you,

do you want to let us know anything you're working on now? Um,

um, and where people can find you? I'm, yeah, people, uh, I'm currently trying to create a game

show for next Friday with a friend. So that's going to be like a ridiculous live show streamed on

Noster live in person. I don't really know what the hell's going to happen. But, um, I think the

quick fire experimental nature of, of certainly Syphonon House and the things I like to do, I like

to fuck around and find out and mess around quickly and, and learn and make mistakes. So, uh, that is a

very, very, wait, it's not even next Friday. It's this Friday. God, not much time. But that's the

immediate pressure of creation. Um, and yeah, things people can find me on Noster, um, or

SyphononCouse.com is probably the best website to check out. And yeah, um, if anyone's in London,

we're like, SyphononCouse is probably going to close the building that we're in in the next six

weeks. So we're going to have like a final festival, uh, in March, if people are in London,

and then, uh, so that's the 21st and 22nd of March. We'll be a big festival with talks and

art and parties and stuff. So if people around, that'll be the place to come to.

Oh, amazing. That's the Echinox as well.

Mmm, exactly. And, uh, yeah, it's the best Gregorian date that's out there, the 21st of Saturday.

Yeah. But yeah, we are, we are trying to definitely much more align things with, uh, yeah, I think

solar and lunar kind of vibes and get off this Gregorian thing. I think it's going to be nice

when we start going back to that ancient way of like, yeah, being in in touch with the different

kind of timekeeping, like block time and then like lunar time, I think is a much more interesting way

for us to start thinking about our timekeeping. 100%. Yeah. I'm trying to, there's, um, in the south,

in the south of Spain, there's a dolmen that you can, that it's aligned to the to the Echinox.

And they do, they open it up on the three days and those three days and the 20, the 19th and 20

and the 21st. Um, but it's only open for like 20 people each time for each day. So,

wish me luck in getting tickets, but I, I really would love to see that.

So yeah, there's something very, um, yeah, more, um, I guess more connection to nature feels, feels

like a better way to, to look at time. Maybe, um, maybe near 2040, we're all here and we can

redo these calls in the real world under the trees. Maybe. Maybe. Okay. Well, thank you so much

to all of you for joining. Um, I love this, this idea of myths and stories and I think we,

we could have gone on and on and there's probably so many paths you can, you can go down to talk

about these things. Um, and yeah, to anyone listening, uh, please check out all of the work of these

really incredible artists. It's, um, it's a rabbit hole in its own just to look at, to look at the art of

each, um, of each artist in the space. So thank you. And we will see you next time.

Thank you very much for having us. Thank you so much. Thank you guys. Thank you so much.

Thank you.