Armin Krishnan: 5GW, Mind Control, Neurowarfare, & Killer Robots!

0:00Hi, Uncle Lazier here. America's built on fast cars, fast food, and even faster women. Photo casinos built in America. You know, if they're fast out, fast-cast cries with dimsion. You see, only Moto is US owned and operated. Moto, it's American-made, is that's who we are? That's who we care about. Play for free at Moto.us. Moto casinos, the social casino boy grew up prohibited. No purchase necessary. Visit Moto.us for more details. Must speak 21 plus. Moto casinos, America's social casino. Welcome to Geopolitics and Empire. Joining us for the very first time is associate professor at East Carolina University, Armin Krishnan. His teaching areas include security studies, international relations, American foreign policy intelligence studies, and his research interests include privatization and outsourcing in the national security sector, military, robotics, military ethics, targeted killings, shadow wars in the US covert action, as well as government secrecy.

1:00He's the author of a number of books, some of which I've been scanning through, very excellent, including killer robots, a military neural science, and the coming age of neural warfare, fifth generation warfare, and Havana syndrome. Welcome to the podcast, Professor Krishnan. Thank you very much for inviting me to your show. I'm very excited to be here. And I hope I can give you some ideas of my research and about the things that are just very important in the world. Yeah, and I wanted to get sort of like a 101 master class from you, an overview on these subjects, which are broad, and which I haven't, it's a shame I haven't really dealt with them on the podcast, and I need to more, and I can think my colleague Zara from Collapse Life, where I first saw you on her podcast, and she as well recommended you as a guest, and I've been also looking at some of your other podcast appearances, and anything to add briefly about your background and research.

2:01Well, I'm from Germany, I've studied in England, and I've been in the United States since 2009. I have a strong interest in everything national security, and in the future of war. And yeah, I have to add that anything I'm saying here on this podcast is my personal opinion, and there's nothing to do with the positions of East Carolina University. Yes, that always has to be put out there. And I'm curious as to, because you also teach international relations, and I think we share something here. So I wanted to ask you, what got you interested in covert ops, mind control, killer robots, neural warfare, fifth generation warfare, from my perspective, I feel like that's where it's at. So that's when we're talking about government or politics, it's like, you know, you mentioned your book, a fifth generation warfare, you got a section on deep states and deep politics. I'm like, that's where the power center is.

3:04From my perspective, what got you sort of interested in these topics? Well, actually I started out studying political philosophy. I was very interested in metaphysics, and then I decided to change my specialization. I studied intelligence studies in Britain, and I got really hooked on the subject of intelligence and covert operations, and I got interested in the military industrial complex, and the whole issue of how warfare is developing. And yeah, I ended up with non-kinetic ways of attacking other countries, so psychological warfare. I think that is the major direction that we are moving into. And yeah, I find mind control very fascinating as a subject, and it's kind of converging with respect to several technological directions that we are currently pursuing and achieving some, yeah, we are perfecting at the moment,

4:05which is neuroscience, artificial intelligence, biotechnology, and nanotechnology, and genetics. So it's quite scary, and I think we need to have a broader discussion about where we want to go, and we would want to regulate those kinds of technologies and prevent some of the various uses of the technology that we are already seeing. And you're on that point to ask you, and it seems like a number of my guests tend to agree on this point, on this trajectory, just to ask you of this idea of, let's say, a third world war, and it seems like you agree with some of my past guests that it seems less likely that we will see a large-scale military conflict as we have in the past, and that World War III is effectively, I think Marshall McLuhan and others have alluded to this,

5:05it's going to be a war, a psychological war, and information, guerrilla war, you write in your book in today's world, the utility of force in major wars, much diminished, war has become too costly and too destructive to function as a reasonable mechanism for settling disputes between sovereign states. You, as well, another section you say war has evolved into something that is not easily recognizable as war, but there is no less decisive or consequential. And you know, I've had past guests, I think, Gail Therberg, who's an actuary, she talks about how, even if states wanted to carry out war, like World War II style, there's not enough energy to, you know, the human, the soldiers, the gas, and so just any thoughts on that, do you think it's going to move that it's more likely that a third world war would be less likely and it's more going to stay in the domain that you talk about?

6:08I think since the 1950s, a third world war has become effectively unthinkable. I mean, it would be so destructive that there would be no reason to fight it in the first place. So nobody can benefit from it. So if anybody would have figured out how to conduct a third world war, it would have happened already. I don't think it's possible, at least not in the form of a major conventional war. And yeah, once you have a major conventional war, it becomes very difficult to control escalation. So at some point, one side would decide to use tactical nuclear weapons. And once you start with using tactical nuclear weapons, you will end up in a global thermonuclear war and the end of humanity and civilization as we know it. And that's a strong motivation for governments not to go into that direction.

7:09I mean, we have seen some disturbing trends over the last couple of years, especially with the Ukraine war. We've seen escalations that I didn't consider were likely to begin with. And yeah, I was also getting scared that we could be moving towards a real third world scenario, a nuclear exchange kind of thing, but luckily it hasn't happened. And yeah, and I don't think that the United States or NATO or Russia or China would be able to sustain a longer conventional war. And within a few weeks or months, they would be running out of ammunition. And the infrastructure of their countries would be so destroyed that societies would collapse. And yeah, and that makes a major war between great powers effectively impossible. And just to add to that,

8:10I think a lot of the stuff that you outlaw in your books, the techniques that we have today with technology, biotechnologies. I mean, just so much stuff that you cover in your books. That's an easier way to get the job done in some respects, unless costly. But maybe to start with fifth generation warfare, in your book you go through all of the generations, first generation warfare, which is sort of like the conventional style of warfare from a few centuries ago, and then taking us up to today fifth generation warfare. And then of course, what's coming, sixth generation warfare. So just if you could give us an example, what is fifth generation warfare? Well, it's actually a pretty obscure military theory that became, well, it started around, the early 2000s after 9-11, and it's based on an older theory, which is called fourth generation warfare that was developed or sketched in the late 1980s

9:11by some soldiers in the Marine Corps. And they were thinking of different directions for future war. So they were thinking of a technological direction and a societal warfare type direction, psychological warfare type direction. And during the 1990s, this became connected with the idea of the end of the nation state, at the K of the nation state. So new types of violence emerging, new types of insurgencies, and it ended up being a theory of evolved insurgency. And then 9-11 happened, we had the antrics attacks, and there was the idea that we were confronted with yet another, generation of warfare. So no longer the classical insurgency model, but rather something different, so that is utilizing technology, and that is empowering individuals

10:15or small groups to attack powerful nation states and potentially bring them down. And that's when the whole idea of fifth generation warfare started, is also connected to a theory by two Chinese strategists who called it unrestricted warfare. And that's the idea that you could leverage many different modes of attack and use them potentially in combination and involving different kinds of groups, different actors in attacking a stronger enemy and weighing down the enemy over time. And that is kind of the Chinese strategic paradigm. You want to win without fighting. And that emphasizes non-military means for attacking an enemy. And yeah, and that is kind of the core idea of fifth generation warfare. So you are attacking a society.

11:18You're not attacking a military. You're not necessarily attacking the state. You're attacking society. And you're using covert and ambiguous means for doing that. So you have deniability. It's not easily recognizable as a conflict or a war. There could be violence, but the violence is highly dispersed or it's not easily recognizable as violence. So people may not realize that they are an attack and the main effect is psychological manipulation. So you want to shape perceptions and you want to affect behaviors. And potentially you want to move a society in a particular direction, which could be influenced by ideologies or religious ideas or utopian ideas. So it makes it very different from earlier understandings of war.

12:19So it's in a sense it's almost the opposite of what Klausovitz said about war. Hi, Uncle laser here. America's built on fast cars, fast food, and even faster women. Photo casinos built America. You know what they're fast out? Fast cash rise, redemption. You see the only motto is you have to own and operate. Moto, it's American made, is that who we are? And that's who we care about. Play for free at moto.us. Photo casinos, the social casino boy who are prohibited, no purchase necessary. Visit moto.us for more details. Must be 21 plus. Moto casino, American social casino. Craving the coffee flavor you love. But without the caffeine, Kachavas got you covered with their newest coffee flavor. This all-in-one nutrition shake delivers bold, authentic flavor, crafted from premium, decaffeinated Brazilian beans. Quality nutrition shouldn't be complicated. Just two scoops of Kachavas all-in-one nutrition shake and you've got 25 grams of protein, six grams of fiber, greens, and so much more.

13:20Whether you're craving that coffee taste to kickstart your morning ritual or as a nutrient-packed reward to round out your afternoon, Kachava keeps you fueled and satisfied wherever your day takes you. Plus, it actually tastes delicious. No fillers, no nonsense. Just the good stuff your body craves. And for the times you feel like switching it up, you've got seven flavors to choose from, all with the highest quality ingredients. Treat yourself to the flavor and nutrition your body craves. Go to Kachava.com and use code news. New customers get 15% off their first order. That's KAC, hav.com code news. And just to add one question that comes to mind is who, right? Because you mentioned we have state actors. And we have non-state actors. I remember this from my international relations classes. By the way, was it 2008 or that 15, 16, 17, 18 years ago, I was recommended by my professor to excellent professor to read on Mr. Fair Warfare. And it's a shame I still haven't not read it.

14:22I need to. But my fear is that what you're saying, particularly in the last few years and few decades, I feel the world's population has been under a fifth generation of warfare to different degrees in different countries. And as you say, it's unclear who is running some of this fifth generation warfare. And there are many actors, right? Was this a state, non-state corporations? And then often I allude to these international level power brokers. And do you have any thoughts on that, on the who's, on the different actors that can be running fifth generation warfare on the population? And what's very interesting about fifth generation warfare doesn't seem to be driven by political objectors or classical political objectors and by national interests. So if we're using the standard tool of international relations for analyzing something like fifth generation warfare,

15:26we will not get very far. Because there are other kinds of actors. And one of them is called super empowered individuals. So that can be the super rich. It can be also individuals who have uniquely qualified for having a large impact on society because of their connections, societal connections, their relative position in society, their access to technology and other kinds of unique resources. And it can be also like classical non-state actors, terrorist groups, and that criminal organizations that could try to undermine society in that way. So it's a very complex picture also that because sometimes state capabilities can be leveraged in fifth generation warfare because of the infiltration of states and governments.

16:30So we've seen that in Russia during the 1990s where organized crime had effectively infiltrated the Russian government and used the Russian government for furthering criminal ends. So that is a realistic possibility that governments get infiltrated and that some of their capabilities, especially as it relates to the so-called deep state, the intelligence and national security apparatus, that they could be misused for purposes that have nothing to do with the national interest. Well, when we see cases of that here in Mexico where I am, the same thing, you don't know where the government begins in the cartel ends. And I'd also argue I'm a EU citizen as well. So I have the legal right to criticize Brussels, not a fan of them either. And I see many totalitarian flavors there. And of course, the American deep state

17:30has been discussed for the longest time. So many questions. I'm curious in your book, you mentioned no sphere, no sphere at spiritual aspect. And I had a past guest on Jacob Nordengard who also talked about that, who talked about the Catholic, was it intellectual priest, I can never pronounce his name, Dishardin, as referencing the no sphere, which is enabled basically by this globalized technology, just if you remember that and any thoughts on how the no sphere fits into all of this. Yeah, Dishardin and there is also a Russian scholar, Benatsky, they developed this idea that all human minds are connected. So there is a collective mind of humanity and that creates the possibility that we can shape the collective mind and that we can operate in that space.

18:34So there is also an interesting paper, I think, by John Arkeller, on the no sphere and no sphere politic from, I think, the early 2000s. So it is about manipulating the perceptions of a society at large and using media for that purpose. So the Russians have developed that into some sort of consistent theory of information security. So they are tying it also to morality, values, culture, traditions, patriotism, and they are saying that that's the reason why we have to protect our no sphere from malicious influence, so malicious information that they see in the form of Western internet content.

19:40So that's how they justify internet censorship in Russia, saying that these are ideas that are incompatible with our values, with our traditions and morals. And we have to protect society against it. So we have to protect our no sphere against it. And you can also use it offensively. So you could try to manipulate the demands of others, undermining their values and traditions and things like that. And one of your books, you also get into, there's psychological operations, siops, I think you mentioned in your book, was it miso? And the definition for siops used to be siops by the military itself. Then they switched it to miso, right? Military information support operations. Strategic communication is another term they like to use. So previously it was known as psychological operations.

20:41And before that, it's psychological warfare. So there are different names for it. Now they talk about cognitive warfare. In the end, it's always the same thing, what you want. You want to manipulate perceptions and you want to shape thinking and behavior. And you want to do it on a larger scale, so potentially on a societal level. And you want to influence leadership as well. So. And I read a few months ago that they're switching it back to siops from miso. So they're not no longer trying to hide. And one of my biggest fears and contentions in all of this is that I feel in many ways our own governments, I mean, I'm an American, whichever government in general, that they have become our enemies. So you know, used to traditionally be the Soviets, the Chinese, and they are still adversarial. But a lot of these, some of the stuff

21:42that we're talking about is now being used against governments by governments against their citizens. And you know, you mentioned Michael Schellenberger in your book, who's done good work on the concepts of the CIA. You mentioned Lance De Haven Smith in your book, who I've had on the podcast. You know, he passed a few years ago. So I had his, I've got his book, Aspiracy Theory in America. He's been on the podcast and so my sort of question is, these ideas of disinformation, malinformation, misinformation. You know, it's under the umbrella of all of this 5G warfare as a psychological operations, no sphere. But now you have the CIA and whatever other military intelligence, L.D.H.S. labeling American citizens, such as myself, who are telling simple, observable truths. So I'm not here peddling, right? And subversive information, just like I'm observing what's happening and pointing it out. And then I'm being classified and others

22:42as disinformants, disinformation, and being persecuted. You know, I had the Department of Homeland Security in 2022, ban me from PayPal, and Kim Iverson reported on that. And so they've met Taibi. When they rolled out the disinformation governance board, so this entire infrastructure, where the DHS was created after 9-11, and then the DHS created a sub agency, CISA, related to the cyber infrastructure. And in their own documents, thanks to Mike Benz of the Foundation for Freedom, where he explained how CISA basically says, if you're carrying out this information, you're attacking the cyber infrastructure of the US government. So you are a non-kinetic threat. And so as I understand it, I was deemed a non-kinetic threat for simply telling, observing reality. And so the evidence he thought on that, and then how we're maybe crossing, coming crossing a Rubicon, where governments

23:44are becoming more totalitarian. Well, it's a complicated situation because you're dealing with the government not as a unitary actor. So the government is like a federation of agencies and interests. And they are pulling the state in different directions. And I think some of it has been infiltrated by special interests that are pursuing things that are definitely not in the interest of the nation as a whole. And yeah, there has been this argument that we have effectively a double government. So we have the elected government, the visible government, so that is theoretically accountable to the public, and that is tasked with protecting the national interest and pursuing what's in the interest of the people. And then we have the permanent government, which is the bureaucracy.

24:46And in particular, the national security apparatus, which is far less accountable. Mochicino, American social casino. Welcome to MotoCasino, where the excitement never ends. With thousands of the hottest free-to-play social casino games, fastest payouts. And the best promotions in the industry, no tricks or gimmicks, owned and operated in the USA. MotoCasino is a free-to-play social casino, no purchase necessary, 21 plus to play, void with prohibit. Sign up today for a generous welcome bonus. Mochicino, American social casino. Download the MotoCasino app today. Craving the coffee flavor you love. But without the caffeine, Kachava's got you covered with their newest coffee flavor. This all-in-one nutrition shake delivers bold, authentic flavor, crafted from premium, decaffeinated Brazilian beans with 25 grams of protein, six grams of fiber, greens, and so much more. Treat yourself to the flavor and nutrition your body craves. Go to kachava.com and use code news.

25:47New customers get 15% off their first order. That's KAC, H-A-V-A.com code news. And which has its own interests. And they are, I think, infiltrated to some extent. And they're abusing their power for things that have nothing to deal with national security. And that creates a situation where they are going after people who are in the way of interests that are coming from outside of the state. So that's what you could call the shadow government. So the people who are actually running things, I mean, who are giving the objectives to people inside of the national security apparatus. And you could assume that these could be the oligarchs. So the richest people in the country, or in any country, who are really pulling the strings by controlling aspects of the national security apparatus.

26:49And they are using the national security apparatus to crack down on anybody who criticizes what they're actually doing. So I do believe that there is an effort by certain groups to create a totalitarian type of government where there is no longer any dissent allowed. So all, I mean, many democracies in the world are under attack. So they are seeing declining democratic practice, freedom of speech, and real variety in political parties and opinions and programs. Because there is a concerted apple to cartel it. The latest example last night, I was reading Ecuador, apparently, just banned the opposition party. And Ecuador is basically a puppet of Washington

27:50who wants to implement the North American technique. It's funny. When I was in IR, like the conspiracy theory professor, I even had classes taken away from me for a semester or two. And way back when this is what, 10, 13 years ago, or 12, I interviewed a Dr. Robert Pastor of the Council of Foreign Relations who I met, who visited our campus. And he was known nickname father of the North American Union. He wrote a book, North American community. He would, in his lectures, he would say, we're all North Americans. And I get my classes taken away because I'm a conspiracy theorist. And last week, Secretary of War, Peter Hegseth comes out and says, there's a new map from Greenland to Canada, to Panama. It's the greater North America. And I'm like, all right, I guess I'm not so crazy anymore, but I'm just using that Ecuador example.

28:52And every country that I've been in, you talk to the average population, they will tell you that there's a family of oligarchs that run the country. I lived in Kazakhstan for three years. And the Kazakhs are like, yeah, you know, it's no Nazar Bayev and who was technically my employer at the time. Nazar Bayev and his clan run the country, they own a lot of the businesses, the infrastructure. Mexico here, they, you know, people say, yeah, yeah, obviously we have an oligarchy, that there's a real estate oligarchy, they buy up all the properties and jack up the prices and same thing in the US as we're seeing, right? PayPal Mafia and all this sort of stuff. Any country, Russia, the oligarchs, China and so forth. This is kind of just the joke and the side. This conversation, could it potentially be construed as a fifth generation warfare counter insurgency? Well, obviously. I mean, we are countering a particular discourse

29:54and we're trying to affect perceptions in relation to a conflict that is ongoing. And so in that sense, we are participants in that conflict. In your book, you talk about, again, you give examples of the Stalinist purchase, which are kind of like old-school fifth generation warfare, the democracy promotion air spring, I did my master's thesis on this, the color revolutions, right, you talk about NGOs in your book and it's clear that civil society has been become part of the military weapon, at least when we're speaking with the US and other countries do similar, but I don't think no one has done such a great job as America and the West with where they took, they've said in their own words, these NGOs do what the CIA used to do, right? So National and Dalmat for Democracy in your book, I think you cite Jean Sharpe of Albert Einstein Institute and all of these revolution, so-called revolutions, Serbia's 2000 revolution or orange revolution, Ukraine,

30:58it was a rose revolution, George, I can't even remember them all, I mean, you've got like the Safron Revolution, somewhere in Asia, you've got the Iranian 2008 green revolution, so on and so forth, and it's basically it's just any thoughts on this because it's really, this is war, but it has an appearance of a democratic society participation when in fact those societies in foreign countries are being manipulated and used, and for me, that is anti-democratic in my perspective as an American, in fact, when I was in Kazakhstan, I was warning, I actually had a meeting with the head of security of the town, and this was 2017, 18 or 19, maybe 20, I was warning them that I saw color revolution activity against Kazakhstan, and two years later in January of 2022, we saw an attempted color revolution, and I was just saying, look, I'm an American,

32:00we're supposed to support democracy, but I don't see this as democracy, America trying to overthrow other countries, any thoughts on some of these issues. Yeah, I think it does go back to Jean Sharp, so he wrote his PhD on non-violent resistance, and he was trying to pedal that to the US government in the early 1980s, as some sort of non-violent way of transforming the communist block. And yeah, in 1983, they established the National Endowment for Democracy, the International Republican Institute, and the National Democratic Institute, which are all government funded, I mean, State Department funded, quasi NGOs, so they are saying they are autonomous from the US government, but they are largely funded, but if not totally funded by the US government, and they are supporting democracy in other countries,

33:02so they are working with activist groups, opposition groups, in other countries with the goal of, yeah, facilitating some democratic revolution, so they were working in the Soviet block, so they were, I mean, to a limited extent, so they were trying to provide support to solidarity in Poland and to, yeah, other notable opposition groups in Hungary and the other countries, and yeah, you also have George Soros, who was also getting involved in the same thing, so he was providing money, and he was seemingly doing that independent from the US government as well, and in the 1990s, they said, now our new grand strategy is democratic expansion, so we do that on an industrial scale, we are going into countries and democratize them,

34:04and that meant logically also making them a pro-Western and pro-American, so they wanted to put people in power who were favorable to the interests of the United States, obviously, and, yeah, they were successful in Nicaragua in 1990, and from then on, they became more professional edit, and the big breakthrough, I think, was in 2000 in Serbia, where they overthrew Milosevic by training activists and organizing mass protests against Milosevic, and that brought down the government after a contested election, which is the general pattern, so you have some election where a person gets re-elected or elected, who is anti-Western or anti-American, and then there are claims of election manipulation or election fraud,

35:08then there are the mass protests that are prolonged, and then there is diplomatic pressure on the respective government to step down, there is economic pressure on them, and in some cases, they have been successful, so they had those three major color revolutions in the 2000s, the first one, I think, was in Georgia, and then Ukraine, and then Kyrgyzstan, so they were doing it. Definitely, I mean, you can argue how big was the State Department influence on all of that, the Russians seemed to believe that there's strong evidence that this was a geopolitical kind of technique for altering the orientation or the alignment of countries, and that the State Department was behind many of those color revolutions, they studied the Arab Spring, of 2010 and 2011,

36:12and came to the conclusion that this is a new mode of warfare, so they called it hybrid warfare, that was the term that was popular at the time, and yeah, you can also call it fifth generation warfare because it takes place at a societal level, and you're trying to change perceptions and behaviors, and it involves relatively little violence. And this is what's happening, as we speak, in Iran, right now, these techniques, and it goes back to the beginning of your book, I mean, what you just described, that's effectively war, so they accomplished, by more or less, peaceable means, changing a government, right, which, what in past history would have been done with soldiers and tanks, and a lot of collateral damage, right? Casualties, they were able to change the government through these fifth generation warfare techniques. Moro casino, American social casino.

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38:20I want to get into that you talk about mind control, psychotronics. In the last chapter you talk about, where is it here? Transhumanism. So nano, info, bio, cognitive technologies. Transhumanism. Nick Boss from you talk about biotech. And so this is kind of like where we're headed. And then you talk about some of my favorite topics. Surveillance. I'll do hoxley. Surveillance capitalism. I have her books. I think Zuboff. And the internet of wearables and implants and world simulation and digital twins. So just some of your thoughts here, because you talk about the dangers of where we're headed. CBDC's population control technologies. It's hoxley described as scientific dictatorship, technocracy. I talk about this all the time. Neo-futilism. I, I, I, I, I, on his very focus. It says techno-futilism. Joel Kotkin says. Neo-futilism. I call it neo-techno-futilism. And so thoughts on sort of this transition from this is still fifth generation warfare.

39:25But then also we're moving to sixth generation warfare. And you talk about you engineering as well. So that's a bit of a word of a word salad. But thoughts on some of these new technologies. Well, I think what we are seeing is what could be called a colonization of the body. So there is an attempt to go beyond just perception to go inside of the body. And to control the biological functions moderately and cognitive functions moderately. And we have the technological means of doing so. And so it does start with variables, so variable technology. So that can monitor our bio functions and things like that. You can use it for performance enhancement, like brain stimulation devices. And the next step is to inject it into the bloodstream. So that's the nano technology.

40:27And then you can combine it with external means as well. So you can combine it with directed energy. And then you could potentially control processes in the brain and in the body using a discount of combination of nano tech in the body and electromagnetic fields outside of the body. And you can combine it with artificial intelligence and psychological messaging and social media and things like that. And then you could have a tremendous amount of control over people. And you can also combine it with incentive structures. So CBDCs would be functioning as a powerful incentive for people to behave in the right manner. And because you could switch it off. I mean, it would be linked to digital identity. So you could combine it with access control systems.

41:30So you couldn't get into your car or get into a public building or go to an airport or train station because your digital ID is not valid. And yeah, and if you do something wrong, it can be picked up by surveillance systems and it can hurt your social credit. And it can lead to fines so they can take the money directly out of your wallet. And this way people can be conditioned to behave in a certain way that is desirable for the controllers. So many questions there. First of all, maybe on that last point, this has been my number one subject because I think it's the greatest threat to humanity had on Edwin Black again six years ago, calls it the algorithm ghetto social credit system. And it's happening in the USA as you speak here in Mexico and every nation.

42:30How far along do you think we are in this process? I mean, from a technology point of view, I think it's already doable. And there are I think still political obstacles for implementing it. I think the strongest evidence for moving towards such a system that we've seen was in 2021 in Europe. So the European Union was trying to introduce a digital ID, which was effectively a vaccine passport. And that was to be used for accessing certain venues and services. So in some places, people were denied access to cafes, even supermarkets, because they didn't have a valid vaccine passport. And you can easily see how you can expand that to include any other kinds of characteristics that you could add to vaccination status, right.

43:39So that was the first step that that was a huge warning sign that they were trying that out in European Union. And yeah, in the US, we also have pressure, political attempts to introduce digital ID. And the concern is that you could make that as a requirement for people to access the internet. And you can easily track individual behavior on the internet. So that would automatically diminish your freedom of expression. I mean, you could still try to say things, but you will not be heard. So there are different techniques. I mean, what they do is the shadow banning. So reducing your visibility on the internet. That's one way, but at some point they might simply deny your access altogether. Or punish you, right? A fine thought crime, as we're seeing.

44:39Or you just can't get on the internet anymore. And you know, and Mexico, they were denying entry into some supermarkets and some parts of Mexico during COVID, because you didn't have a vaccine, the digital vaccine passport. But now we're also seeing people getting fines and trend going to jail for thought crime. I mean, it's literally ministry of truth, George Orwell. And you know, I think it's it's warranted to mention JoJo on Gambin. Again, I've got his book and I haven't read it. Reddit. It's very thin. The Italian philosopher who talks about this biopolitics. But just on this point about what we're just talking about, what is to be done? I mean, do we just slide into it? Because it just seems like we're sliding into this new system. I have three months to register my identity with my mobile provider in Mexico, or they shut off my phone. And we have to give our update our Mexican national ID to biometric. And if we don't this year, we literally cannot buy or sell kind of the examples you were given.

45:42You can't travel, you can't renew your passport, your driver's license, can't marry, you get divorced. Does this worry you? I and many respects feel like it's gained so much momentum and it's just moving forward. We kind of have to, as you said, use the political process to try and turn it around, but with your thoughts. Well, we are living in extremely uncertain times. It's impossible to predict what's going to happen in the next couple of years. So that makes it hard to say that it's inevitable. I don't think anything is inevitable right now. I think there are many possibilities how this could go. I have no idea what is going to happen. I mean, that keeps life interesting, right? So you keep researching, studying things and you keep guessing what might be happening.

46:42Yeah, of course, I'm very concerned about the directions we're taking. At the same time, I also see some positive trends. So people are becoming more aware of the issues. So there could be efforts to build parallel societies where people can simply opt out of the rest of society and build communities that are self sustainable or more sustainable. And yeah, I think we are moving towards some sort of collapse crash scenario. So there are tremendous economic issues that we are facing, financial issues. I don't think anybody has a solution. I don't think that the oligarchs have any kind of solution other than trying to push harder for totalitarianism. I think that's their default option right now.

47:42They want to have maximum control over society because they know that everything could be collapsing. And in a collapse, it would be very hard for them to stay on top. And that's the reason why they want to have get rid of democracy and have a much more control society. I mean, that's my interpretation. And it also proves that the oligarchs in the end don't have total control themselves. Because they don't have any good solutions. And I think there is also some disagreement among oligarchs. So they are fighting each other as well. So there are different factions. And this also indicates that we don't really know who is going to win here. And there are no guarantees one way or the other. And the fact that they're building at mass bunkers, their little olisiums, their little fortresses also speaks to what you're saying. They're not certain and they will need to possibly fall back.

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50:54I started getting interested in mind control when I heard about M-K-Altra. I think in the late 1990s I came across it. It was very fascinating. And I've figured out why they were interested in it. So if you're dealing with humans in the world of intelligence and covert operations, you're dealing with a lot of unpredictability, and you want to reduce that unpredictability. So you want to have more direct external control over the behavior of others. So also from a counterintelligence perspective. So if somebody is turned and talks to the enemy or is getting under enemy control by a blackmail and they give up valuable information, you want to have some control over that. And that's the reason why the CIA started looking into that from the late 1940s. They were in particular concerned about the calmness having developed such techniques.

51:54So mind control is clearly associated with totalitarianism. So some of the research and experimentation that was happening in the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany in the 1930s and turned the second world war. And the US intelligence picked up some of that research, and they decided, yeah, that might be useful for us, for our intelligence purposes. And obviously you can use it for creating a totalitarian society. And yeah, that is a huge concern. They were looking into drugs, which was the main mechanism for changing the mind. So LSD experiments and other kinds of hallucinogenic drugs. And that they were looking into. And then they were also developing other approaches such as direct control of the mind,

52:59using electrodes that could be implanted into the skull. And so that is the whole Hossig Delgado type of research. So he wrote the famous book in 1969, the physical control of the mind. So he is famous for his bull experiment where he put some implant into the bull. And the bull was charging at him and he pressed the button on his device. It's time for Siva and the bull stopped in front of him. So he demonstrated that he had direct control over the behavior of the bull. And you can do that for humans as well. Obviously there are ethical implications doing that. And yeah, the encounter experiments officially ended late 1972. But I suspect that a lot of that continued much longer. And I think that this kind of research is still going on.

54:02And that leads to Havana syndrome. And so they developed techniques for disrupting brains from a distance. And affecting the central nervous system in a way to disorient people or otherwise incapacitate people and to cause them permanent damage to their health. So some of the people who have been diagnosed with Havana syndrome. They have traumatic brain injury and other neurological disorders. Parkinson's disease, permanent headaches and brain fog. So they can't even work anymore as a consequence of those attacks. And I think those kinds of weapons exist. They have been developed since the 1960s. So they have become much more advanced.

55:03The problem is we just don't hear about it. Governments denied those weapons exist. And that is kind of a dilemma for any researcher. And because you're going up against the. Official opinion that says those weapons do not exist. It's all a conspiracy theory. So just to re summarize because I haven't really looked at Havana syndrome. Just besides hearing those reports out of the embassy in Cuba or where was it. But so are you saying and I don't. I think I think the evidence is there. So you think they have technologies now where they can from remotely. Basically render an individual incapacitated. Disabled as you just gave the example physically mentally disabled and where they can no longer function. And there's plausible deniability because it was remote. And nobody knows where it came from.

56:04And now this person has whatever disease or health issues. So basically that this can be done. Well, they are called directed energy weapons. And they can use sound acoustic mechanism or they can use an electromagnetic mechanism or a combination of it. So one theory is that it's potentially some type of ultrasound attack or it could be pulsed microwaves. So the problem is that the. Official science does not acknowledge. Effects biofacts or certain types of biofacts of electromagnetic fields. And so there is a big controversy about it. So officially signs only acknowledges thermal effects. And so when you have a heating effect on organs such as brain or on the skin.

57:08And then yeah, then you can do damage. But there are also non thermal effects of microwaves or radio waves or. Yeah, in the electromagnetic spectrum that are more subtle and that have been explored or. Research definitely since the 1950s 1960s era. And there are some evidence that those non thermal effects do exist. And there's some evidence that you can. Pulse or if you can modulate the microwaves in a certain way. Then you can have more targeted effects on the human body and the human mind. So so the mechanism of injury is not quite clear. But what we've seen is evidence that people have become disabled. As a consequence of what is called anomalous health incidents.

58:11And they have affected a large number of intelligence officers. So that can't be a coincidence. I mean, there's the argument it's all mass psychogenic illness. So they people just imagining things. But I find this a very implausible. And I think that the government is just covering up the evidence for the existence of those weapons. And this year we had at least three stories that indicate that these weapons do exist. And the first one was in Venezuela. Where there were claims that the delta force. They were using a new type of non lethal weapon that could paralyze people or disorient people. When they were capturing Maduro. And the second story was that DHS had bought for over 10 million dollars. A device that was using microwaves.

59:12And that could potentially induce Havana syndrome. And that happened late in the Biden administration in 2024. And the third story is about a Norwegian researcher. Who was skeptical of the claim that microwaves could cause neurological damage. So he was building such a device and testing it on himself. And he suffered neurological damage as a consequence of it. And all of the stories came out over the last two months. So I think we are moving towards disclosure. If you want to call it. I mean, getting harder to deny the fact that we can affect cognitive function from distance. Yeah, that is fascinating. And just to go back to some of the things you were talking about earlier. When it comes to CIA, my control drugs. I read in the US that half the population is either on prescription drugs or taking illegal drugs or alcohol.

1:00:20That's a bit of a stretch. But it's almost like I feel the heavy use of prescription drugs, at least in the American society, has become like the Soma of Aldo Huxley. And maybe some of those effects of these prescription drugs carry over from the LSD. But even smartphones. Like could you say that when you're talking about pulses and electromagnetism and all of these things. I think I and the digital cocaine addiction right from the hits of dopamine of checking the feeds. I find like that is a powerful method of control that I think people we don't even realize it. That I think through our smartphones, we are being controlled in ways that we don't even understand. And then on top of that, all of these other things that were being affected. Just any thought there because it's and they're making life impossible without a smartphone. And then now they're pushing us towards wearables and you talk about BCI's brain chip interfaces.

1:01:22And Musk is trying to popularize neural links. It's almost like they're going to want everyone to implant to have like an implant. And then you know, you hear you think about the book of Revelation that talks about a mark of the beast. But they've been having troubles with the neural link. But do you think at some point that there is a technology, some type of implant technology that will function. It will become mass, at least be able to be deployed to the masses. Hi, Uncle laser here. America's built on fast cars, fast food, and even faster women. Photo casinos built in America. You know, they're fast out, fast cash, rise, redemption. You see the only moto is you have to own an operate. Moto. It's American made. That's who we are. That's who we care about. Play for free at moto.us. Moto casinos is a social casino boy who are prohibited. No purchase necessary. Visit moto.us for more details. Must be 21 plus.

1:02:22Moto casinos. American social casino. Craving the coffee flavor you love. But without the caffeine, Kachava's got you covered with their newest coffee flavor. This all-in-one nutrition shake delivers bold, authentic flavor. Crafted from premium, decaffeinated Brazilian beans. With 25 grams of protein, 6 grams of fiber, greens, and so much more. Treat yourself to the flavor and nutrition your body craves. Go to kachava.com and use code news. New customers get 15% off their first order. That's K-A-C-H-A-V-A.com code news. I mean, there are three different approaches to bring computer interfaces. One is called invasive, which is when you open a skull and put some implant inside of the skull into the brain. And that is the technology that neural link is currently pursuing. And that's very risky.

1:03:23So whenever you do neurosurgery, it entails a considerable amount of risk to the patient. So that is not something that they could use for the masses. Then there is something called non-invasive, which is some external headset that can measure a brain function. So like a EEG. And that can be a scalp cap or something more discrete. And the problem here is it has a poor resolution. So you can have only some basic inputs. And as you can maybe yes or no decisions can be indicated. But it's not a very good way of doing more ambitious brain computer interface where you can actually talk to the machine using your thought. That I think is the objective. And then there is something called minimally invasive,

1:04:26which is the thing where you inject the nanobots into your bloodstream and then potentially combine it with some external device that measuring your brain ways and that can manipulate your brain function using electromagnetic fields around your head. So that may be a viable approach for a brain computer interface. And they are definitely researching it. I don't know how far it has gotten. But it is the most plausible way of how to make this technology possible. There are some listeners. I feel they jump the gun. They say that we already have nanobots in our blood and all that sort of stuff. I kind of don't think. I think as you say, it's being researched. But I don't think it's as wide.

1:05:26I'm not afraid of that I have nanobots currently in my blood. But just further thoughts along those lines and neural warfare. I guess we're already discussing neural warfare. And we have to beg the question what happens during COVID and then mass deploying, mass obligating the global population to inject a new type of quote vaccine, new technology, mRNA. And so I think there's more questions than answers there as to what was going on. But do you have any thought on how would I say? Do you think this stuff is deployed upon us unknowingly right now or they're just being researched in different labs and government agencies? No, they are developing nanoparticles that are inserted into certain foods

1:06:28to make them more durable and like vegetables or fruits. And other, I mean, also to make them more glossy like chocolate. So we already have those kinds of nanoparticles and there are electromagnetic nanoparticles. So they can be manipulated externally through electromagnetic fields. So those exist and they can be inserted into the food and into the water into the air. So that is definitely possible. And you can combine it with other things like electromagnetic fields. And you could potentially use that for having large scale effects like where you could alter the moods of the population. So calm them down or make them more excited. Something like that I think is quite imaginable and possible.

1:07:30It's almost like an extension of what we were talking about earlier, the fifth generation war for color revolution. It's also been the next phase now. Yeah, so you could steer populations. You may try to cause uprisings, civil unrest using that kind of approach. I mean, at the moment we can only speculate about it. But there is military literature that discusses this possibility, especially in Russia. So we should take it seriously. And yeah, the question is how much control can they achieve using that approach? And I don't think that everybody is equally vulnerable to this mind control and manipulation. I think there are ways of detoxifying your body as well. So there are possibilities of reducing the heart. I believe that this is the case.

1:08:33Yeah, I mean, that's the thing I push back against some of the fear monitoring. I think first of all, if you're mentally, if you understand this and you're discerning and you're very resilient mentally, right, you can detect yourself in that arena on top of any physical aspects. As you said, you can detox. And so it's not like they're going to, they have the capacity like invasion of the body snatchers to take over everyone, do you think? Well, they've attempted it. They were using drugs and hypnosis, but they were trying to program people. Then there's the whole thing with trauma-based mind control, which you're certainly familiar with. So they're trying to get them young and traumatize them in order to fracture their mind and create multiple personalities. And then they can program different personalities to have certain behaviors. And one personality that doesn't know about the other personality.

1:09:36I think that has been done. I don't think it necessarily works on everybody, but there seem to be people who can be turned into those kind of mind controlled assassins or sex slaves that they envisioned. And I think there are credible stories about people to whom that has happened. So I wouldn't dismiss it at all. Do you have any thought on, he's mentioned in your book, but I've seen some of his lectures. And he kind of freaks me out. James is at Giordano. And he's said fascinating stuff. But then when you hear him speak, he's very giddy about these technologies that are basically can be interpreted, some of them is slaving us. And I'm like, dude, what are you talking about? Have you ever come across the guy or do you have any thought?

1:10:38I think because he seems to be an important figure in a lot of these discussions. Of course, I've come across his name in my research. I mean, he's one of the first people who coined the term neurowoofer. And so there was Jonathan Moreno, who was the first to develop the idea in his mind worst book from 2006. And I think James Giordano put out an edit volume around 2012. So these are kind of the first scientific treatments of the topic. And yeah, he's a neuroscientist. So he comes from the medical field. And yeah, he is also deeply involved with the national security apparatus. So I think he's still associated with the national defense university. And he has given many talks to national defense institutions

1:11:38around the world. So he's a very influential person. And he knows what he's talking about. What I appreciate about him, apart from his knowledge that he's sharing to some extent with the public, is that he is quite outspoken with respect to the reality of the Havana syndrome. And so he's one of the few national security experts who are saying we have to take it seriously. So there are neuro weapons that are being used on our people. And we have to do something about it. And yeah, you're right, it doesn't seem like he is totally opposed to neuro weapons. And that is a bit disturbing and standard. So he thinks possibly that there are positive applications for the technology. And that it is something that the US military might need. But obviously, I'm much more concerned about the ethical implications of that.

1:12:41And I also want to just sort of close on because there's so many of these topics to get through. And this is where we're getting sort of an overview here. The killer robots aspect, you've done a book on that. And I'm always tracking the news and joking, you know, SkyNet is becoming self-aware. And it's just, it's mind-boggling to see because, you know, we've black mirror, metalhead episode, a terminator, you know, in that black mirror episode, they've got these autonomous robot dog dogs that are programmed to kill humanity. Here's golf legend, John Daly. Hell yeah, these winds are pulling up faster than my divorces. I only spent on moto, America's social casino. You know, I've won a couple of majors. And on moto, I've won majors, grads, and epic jackpots on their classic Vegas slots with huge, huge bonus rounds. Moto Casino adds new games and awards players three coins every single day. Grip it and spend it on moto casino. Download the Moto Casino app today. Moto Casinos is a social casino. We're prohibited. We're just not sorry.

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1:14:41That's OmahaStakes.com, promo code AUDIO. Terms apply, see site for details. And so we're seeing now Ukraine has been basically one of the biggest pretexts of the war there. To develop a lot of these technologies or speed them along, Eric Schmidt just said so a few weeks ago. And we've gone from where countries can produce mass produce autonomous drones from tens of thousands per year to now we're talking millions and now soon they're talking tens of millions per year. And the cost just keeps getting lower. So it's not just drones, but helicopters, autonomous, you know, black hogs, fighter jets, you know, on the ground vehicles. And then in swarms they can work together and then we get the humanoid robots. And then we've got the latest debacle between Pentagon and then cloud ontropic where the Pentagon wants to incorporate this AI.

1:15:41It's like literally these are literally scenes from Skynet, you know, when Skynet becomes the AI takes over, it becomes self aware. And it's it's frightening because, you know, I think you mentioned before we hit record in Gaza, you know, Israel they're creating these AI kill lists and targeting systems lavender and I can't even keep up with it. Balance here. What sort of your summary on how far we are along this trajectory and where it could potentially lead. But I don't think we need to be very much concerned about Skynet becoming self aware. So there's a lot of talk in Silicon Valley about AGI or artificial general intelligence, which is their ideological objective that they are pursuing. App for with quasi religious further. So they are dumping billions of dollars into development of AGI and people like Sam Altman saying that this is around the corner in a couple of years we have AGI.

1:16:43Now they don't clearly define what AGI is. So the most basic definition is that AGI could replicate human abilities more broadly at the moment AI is narrow. They are trained to for they're optimized for particular tasks and they cannot switch between tasks very easily and the AI is also very brittle. So if they run into something that is not part of the training data, then they don't know what kind of solution is the correct one. So you always need a human to double check what the eye is actually coming up with. And AGI would make possible in theory to replace humans with AI. So we don't need anybody to check up on the eye anymore because the AI would be effectively as smart as humans or even smarter than humans.

1:17:43And then we can just put it in the field and it would behave like a human and make good decisions like a human. I think that's not really happening. I don't see any evidence that AGI is around the corner. They have definitely achieved wonderful breakthroughs in terms of generative AI sometimes really amazed with the quality of analysis that is produced by the generative AI models. But that doesn't mean that the AI understands anything in terms of the information or physical reality. They can manipulate words and they can predict words and they can generate text that looks plausible and they can fetch information from a variety of sources, but that's about it. So we shouldn't exaggerate as to what AI can realistically do.

1:18:44And the other thing you pointed out is targeting. There is no doubt that AI is heavily used for targeting now in the around war as well. So they can generate thousands of targets in a very short time period, generate missions in a very short time period. So if you would be using human target tiers, you would be sitting there months and months to do it. AI can do it in a few days or even less. And yeah, that's just simply convenient, but it creates a huge problem in terms of the ethics of it all. So we had this minabstrike where they hit a school with killing 170 young girls. And the argument is that this was probably a target generated by AI. And human may have looked at it for 20 or 30 seconds to make the determination that this was a legitimate target.

1:19:47So there was no sufficient human oversight. And because of that, you end up with wrong decisions like this. And yeah, it's a total disaster with the Gaza war where they were targeting 37,000 individuals in first year of the war using lavender. And they acknowledged themselves that they had at least a 10% error rate. So 10% of the people on the target list were not associated with Hamas or any kind of terror group. And obviously that's a problem, especially if you're killing people on an industrial scale. And any thought on my last point where if we go back earlier where they're building this sort of techno utopian dystopian scientific dictatorship society. They're trying to replace humans in the workforce with AI.

1:20:51And then a lot of these systems that they're trying to impose are totalitarian. They come with the issue of human people having trouble enforcing them, right? But now they're developing robots to enforce totalitarianism because you might have mutinies in the past or police or soldiers refuse to participate. But the robot's not going to refuse. So my fear is that as these things develop, we're going to have a mass capabilities of robot weapons that won't necessarily need as many soldiers anymore. And those robots aren't going to say no, this is unethical. So do you have any thought on that trend of just robots being at the hands of these oligarchs? Yeah, definitely. I mean, they're developing humanoid robots. And they're hoping that they can roll them out to the public within a few years.

1:21:54Some people suggest it could cost just $100,000 to buy a humanoid robot who could help you in your house, do some chores. And obviously you could use it for the military, develop robot soldiers, but I mean, it does run into some hard technical challenges as well. I mean, you have to develop the logistics. You need to support them in the field. I mean, I think the energy supply for those systems is a huge problem. So if you attack the energies, then they couldn't function. And they also have problems. I mean, you can't have the entropic cloud model inside of a robot. So they would be working with the cloud and disrupt the connection to the cloud. And the robot would no longer be able to function that well.

1:22:54I don't think that they can build the AI directly into the machine itself. So it would be working with a cloud and then you can attack it electromagnetically. So there are lots of vulnerabilities and issues if you want to go down that path. So we've still got some time. All right. Good news. We've covered a lot. Is there anything that I haven't brought up that you think is interesting or important to get across? Well, the only thing I have to add is we're living in an in dangerous times. I'm every day I'm amazed about what is happening in the world. Many things that I've never foreseen are happening. And yeah, it's time to pay attention. So everybody should pay very close attention to international politics and technological developments. Because that is going to shape our future. Was it apparently so said you may not be interested in politics, but politics is interested in you.

1:24:00So I'll include all of your links in the description. Well, your university page, but as well as where people can get your books. And I've been reading them and it's good stuff. It's a great starting point as well. Some of them is is there any any other best place for people to go to for your work? No, not really. All right. Well, Professor Armin, hopefully you know, thanks for coming on. Thanks for the work that you're doing and I love to have you back at some point. Thank you very much for the very nice conversation. It was very interesting and I wish you all the best for your podcast. And yeah, I hope that I can come back sometime in the future. Motocasino American social casino Welcome to Motocasino where the excitement never ends. With thousands of the hottest free-to-play social casino game Spatis Payouts.

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