Awesome Astronomy - Artemis II Helium Boogaloo

It's the 365 days of astronomy podcast, coming in three, two, one.

So, utterly at variance is destiny with all the little plans of men.

What good would the moon be to men? Even of their own planet, what have they made but a battleground and a theatre of infinite folly?

Small as his world is and short as his time, he is still in his little life down there far more than he can do.

No, science has toiled too long forging weapons for fools to use.

It is time she held her hand. Let him find it out for himself again in a thousand years' time.

Hey she wells there, clearly being pressient about the Artemis timeline. A plan so obviously in chaos that the mess is visible from 1901.

What? Let us not dally in pervericates like a Boeing engineering team. We have a podcast to record. I'm Paul.

And I'm Jenny.

And welcome to episode 170 of Awesome Astronomy for March 2026.

Hello there, you gorgeous space baby.

Oh, hello darling.

How are you?

Oh, stressed. I just...

You look...

This time, yeah.

Science communication is one of those jobs where you have periods of time where everything is happening all at once.

Yes.

And it's completely overwhelming and on top of dealing with drains and like the work being done in my attic means that everything is everywhere and mess is very stressful.

And it's just...

Oh!

It is, it is.

That is how I feel.

Life can come at you all at once. Sometimes it can't be.

Yes. And this is what's happening right now and I'm extraordinary stressed.

And science communication is...

It's feast or famine a lot of the time that you can have loads of work on and none.

And often that go inside with when everything else happens in your life too.

Yes.

And don't get me wrong. I love my career and love my job.

Yeah.

But it's just a difficult time right now.

Yes. Yes.

Which of course, we mentioned it in the last episode, your dark matter drained.

My dark matter drains. I have an update.

You have an update.

They be flowing.

They be flowing today.

They be flowing.

We fixed it.

And we don't really understand how.

So before I kind of regale the end of the story of the drains.

I say we'll bring it up because we had an email.

I know. We're starting to get emails through.

So thank you everyone who has been emailing us constantly helping us fix this problem.

We think we've got to the root cause.

We have some emails now.

There is a huge backlog obviously because we haven't been able to access them for months.

But we are going to start making our way through them especially in this episode.

So thank you.

And if you have emails us recently, we are going to get back to you.

We are going to be reading them out.

It's just going to take us some time.

But we really appreciate it.

So our first email actually comes from Ray Cosmic Blaze McCarthy who says,

Hello, awesome astronomers.

Glad you found the problem with the email.

Listening to the latest edition.

Are you the disgusting smelly substance offering advice based on 30 years of working in the sewage industry?

Choose, right?

Yeah.

I know.

It's useful.

So Dr. Jan, it sounds like the waste pipe from your kitchen sink, washing machine, etc.

Is the problem?

If the manhole is clear, it could be the lateral connection from the kitchen to the main sewer pipe,

which is fed from the manhole.

It might have broken or collapsed if it's a salt glazed pipe, usually on older properties.

This is an older property.

I don't know exactly when this one was built, but the house across the way from me has got a sign that says 1910.

So it is an older property.

Or someone could have used a plastic waste pipe and it's cracked.

Hopefully this will help great show and enjoy the cruise.

Dr. Jan, regards Ray under cloudy Essex skies.

So I don't know if a pipe is collapsed or not.

It may well have, but I have now got flow through the pipes and we don't really understand how.

Because we had a day where I am not joking pulled out like a foot of black sludge.

And I know this is not just me because I've been in this house less than the year.

So I'm pretty vigilant about using the catches in the sinks and stuff like that.

Honestly, I don't know if I was pulling up stuff.

You were trying to describe to me the other day what this sludge was like,

or the color of it, how glossy and shiny and everything it was.

Oh my god, some of it was solidified.

I like to just stunk of ammonia and I think I was pulling up stuff from the last moon landing.

It's just been in there for so long.

So we did as much as we could.

We poked, we prodded, we were using rods, we were blasting it with the hose pipe.

We were poking it with bamboo sticks to try and break it up so that we could scoop more of it out.

We did hours of work and eventually we just got to a point where we can't do any more.

Let's just leave it for a few days.

We ordered stuff to go down the drains.

And then we left it for a few days, pulled the drains back up and we looked in the drain and we were like,

that hasn't filled back up.

That looks like it's clear question mark.

And so then we pulled the manhole back up.

My uncle had the bright idea of get your washing up bowl and like fill it and we'll pour like a deluge of water down to see if it will go through.

Went straight through, he was watching it go through the manhole.

So all that dig in turned out to be worth it now.

It could be that I have a cracked pipe and it'll build up again and you'll get all the, but.

Yeah, but for now it's working.

Good morning.

So we're going to see.

Good work.

There we go.

I know. Like that.

I can open a new business now.

Dr. Jen's drain solution is limited.

Dr. Drain.

Solving the mysteries of dark matter in space and in your sink.

Your company motto.

Let's get this moving.

Yeah.

But yeah, so it could be a cracked pipe.

I just expect that there is more going on than just clogged stuff.

But for now, while I've got all this other crap going on, that crap is flowing.

So as far as I concerned, it's fine, but thank you very much.

And so what else other than your sewage dark matter problem?

What else have you been up to?

I did something nice.

I don't think I talked about this on the last episode.

I think I saved it for this one.

I went to a kitchen star restaurant.

Oh, get you.

I know. Not just one kitchen star.

Two kitchen stars.

Two kitchen stars.

I know.

Fancy.

It's not, it is fancy.

And like, it's not a thing that you would do like all the time.

No, got it.

You know, it's, it's a very much like a, you've got to treat it a bit like a weekend away.

It's like an event.

You know, it's like buying concert tickets or something.

Yeah, completely, completely.

You know, it's like one of those special things that you sort of decide to do.

And do you know what?

I wasn't convinced.

I wasn't sure.

But I had an absolute blast.

Oh, yeah.

The whole thing took like five hours.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Once you're there, you realise why they got a Michelin star.

Yeah.

You're always a bit skeptical.

We used to do, before we had kids, we used to go, like, make it a thing that we'd go to,

like, one Michelin star restaurant a year.

Yeah.

Just like.

Yeah.

As one special event.

When we had money and time and stuff like that.

Yeah.

And children.

And, and it was it.

You always still had every time.

Even when you've been to a couple, you think, oh, is it going to be worth it?

Is it actually?

And the food is just.

Yeah.

Completely next level.

It's just incredible.

I had no idea the carrots could taste so good.

Yeah.

It took me wrong.

I love a carrot.

But we went.

So the place you went to is called a theme in, and it's in Birmingham.

And it's Indian based.

It's like Indian inspiration and stuff.

And we had one dish.

And this is the one that lives in my brain rent free.

And it was like.

Carrots.

Carrots.

I had a lot of different ways and like they were cut out into little flowers.

And the thing is it's not just like they don't just put the food in front of you.

There's like a whole story with every dish.

And they like that stuff in front of you.

And.

And we did the wine pairing.

I like a smashed.

I was so drunk.

It was a drunkest I've been.

In.

Men's like.

Like literally, like, d'I was with my partner and his uncle.

And he was like, you were just slowly sinking down in your seat.

You could be.

you were just getting lower and lower and lower and then apparently by the end like

underneath my eyes was just perfect and like great and we went back to his ankles it was half

past seven and I went to sleep. It's really good though, it's great, it matches the

questions are amazing. Yeah it was amazing like I think it was like I don't know how many courses it

was. It was like 12 or 15. Oh god yeah yeah and you get the little mini little mini courses

between courses and stuff like that and yeah. Yeah yeah and it was so if anyone is like

like oh I'm not sure about this Michelin Star I wasn't sure about this Michelin Star thing

but give it a go and you will not regret it. Oh I've been disappointed. No it's a fun and it's

a whole experience and that's where you go remember this is not you just going out for dinner like

a whole thing. No no no no. It takes hours. The one the way six-way is the one that's shut

now La Gavrosh which was the really famous one in London it was really like back from the 60s it's

been like a kind of was a was a top restaurant who was one of one of the first Michelin Star

restaurants in the in the country. It closed, I think it was last year before it's finally after

like 50 years or whatever it closed down. We went years ago and it does the whole thing

as you say it's like going to the theatre, it's like a piece of form and it was just the most

incredible meal, just stunning, absolutely stunning. That was made up a years ago.

Yeah and like everything is considered down to like what cutlery they're giving you for each dish

is thought about and the lighting and the positions of everything and all those things.

It is, it is life philosophy. I remember the main meal coming up and it was literally the whole

team of waiters was just yours for like a couple of minutes while they brought everything

simultaneously and then kind of da da just reveal the whole thing on your table simultaneously

and there was just like it was like washing a symphony kind of on top of this just incredible.

Yeah and like you can see the, well the one I was in anyway you could see the finishing kitchen

so apparently most of the cooking in that is done at this like hidden kitchen but then there's

like a finishing kitchen and then like you could see them all work in so that was amazing.

Yeah it is, it is, it is completely worth it. It's so, they're always really expensive but

They are and that's why it's a treat, it's so you've got to think about it like it's

an event and so if you're pennies as you say you're like going to a concert or something like that

is just you know it's worth worth once in a while if you've got you know if you save up some money

and it's really I'd rather do that than go on like some big expensive holiday sometimes

I think it's just like it's yeah it's definitely a thing that's worth doing yeah as

instead of doing a weekend away you go and do like it's good it is good. That kind of thing.

So what have you been up to? Well I've been up to actually not a great deal not a great deal

since we last spoke I've been just busy just in that sort of working away just you know

because even like our back channel chat has been so quiet but just yeah just been really busy

with kind of life and work and just and the weather the weather's improved a lot but it still hasn't

improved massively and that we haven't actually had much astronomy yet still yeah like it's warmer

but I can't actually see some blue as we're recording yeah absolutely but yeah and the few

clear nights we've had I've been working I've been in other work so it's like so yeah but it's

just been yeah it's just life's all good just busy just really kind of I did go away I think I

mentioned do we mention that last episode I can't remember if I mentioned that last episode yeah

when it makes southworld um so it all just blurs you see what time and you know what's going on

but yeah other than that not a not a great deal not a great deal just been kind of

chugging along and being busy basically and then suddenly it's like oh my god it's the middle of

the month we should record yeah yeah so the other thing I've got to mention is that I finished my

lectures now for me an action yeah another another batch of lectures yeah and it went well it was

nice well I enjoyed it I think they enjoyed it yeah we you know had our discussion for what we're

going to do next time um always it's always nice because I always ask this at the end because at the

end of the day they're paying for this lecture course so they may as well learn what they want to

learn is it a meat just kind of choosing things yeah yeah um so there was dark matters on the list

nice topical compared to what we were discussing last time um the edge of the solar system

is uh is another point that they're interested in doing um so yeah so that'll come back around now

September time so yeah yeah we should probably get on with a few things this is our chatty

muck chatty episode where we're just gonna kind of it is our chatty muck chatty episode sort of

just blunder through various things it's kind of astro waffle if you like yeah it is we have our very

kind of structured episodes at the start of the month and then this is our just like to get back

with a gin slash whiskey so last well to be honest this time a day a cup of tea yeah although exactly

we are recording this lunchtime yeah lunchtime so uh because we've been so busy because we've

been so busy yeah let's throw in quick lunchtime I'm available this lunchtime so we're sitting here

we're sitting here in in yeah broad daylight doing it daytime doing it day to do it doing it daytime

not doing it during the day um so um Artemis yeah so this is our this is our gonna be our chatty

muck chatty topic of choice and it's not because you know it's not oh Artemis too was rolled back

and there's been issues I mean there is that which will just cover very quickly but there's actually

been enormous changes to the programme which we're trying to discuss old old Jared as as

grab the reins isn't he there so I know this is like oh this is the very first I kind of I think

thing where we've seen Jared kind of yeah grab the reins and try and kind of do something and I

think it's amazing but before we get into it let's just so where are we with Artemis too where

is Artemis too where is it now it isn't the vehicle assembly building as we record we did we did

in the lab we guessed it would go back to the lab didn't we yeah now the wet drowsy here so that

she was very successful is afterwards that the problems arose so this is when they're transitioning

from testing configuration to flight configuration um and during that switch over they use helium to

pressurize the engines and to kind of keep them in a flight ready status and um unfortunately the

upper stage so this is not the um the orange kind of liquid fuel bit this is not the solid rocket

boosters that you see on the side the the tall skinny white things this is the upper stage should

it's like the end of it um that developed a helium leak yeah and so then the engines weren't

conditioned and unfortunately it's a part of the rocket they can't access at the pad no they said

it had together literally didn't we say didn't we guess that there would be issues and have to go

back to the lab they would have to do some disassembly they would have to go and get like it was

nothing something they couldn't do on the pad we literally said yeah I know honestly they

just hire us I don't want to keep picking us up but we seem to be like not strobe not strobe flipping

down this one we are the sick millards we are the prophetic pool exactly yeah we are sitting here

with our crystal balls going like Artemis is not going to go it's going to go back to the lab

yeah right it's it's crazy it is but um yeah so it's currently back in the vehicle assembly

building they have determined what the issue was um a seal in the um so the in the um billacle

that yeah puts the how that seal got in there I don't know but they're teasing it out with some fish

uh sorry it comes with the patcho blah blah dad joke blah blah joke that one that was

probably dad joke but um a seal got dislodged yeah they don't entirely know um how but that's

them was inhibiting the flow of the helium which is why then so it wasn't so much of a leak but a

flowing inhibition yes and so um they've replaced the seal they've replaced a few other seals

they've replaced some batteries while they're at it because the batteries have a finite course

like time so they're like well well we're here we may as well yeah they've refreshed uh

refreshed refreshed refreshed refreshed some supply is what I'm trying to say on the crew

capsule um the sandwiches the sandwiches the sandwiches have gone off from the yeah yeah you

don't really want to pick the mold off the bread so yeah you know the cherry on top was going

a bit stiff and yeah so um so we're I think soon we're going to hear the announcement I mean

maybe even as this episode goes out it's going to be rolling out again yeah um because they really

don't want to hit the staple launch I don't think it will go in April no but I think it may go

kind of me I think it'll go out um whether they'll roll it out and then there'll be some other

issue I don't think it'll go back I think it'll be out at the pads now and I think it'll probably

go me I would love for it to go closer to go don't get me wrong yeah I'm hoping it but I just

it just feels like it's so this has just been the ultimate thing it's just yeah yeah I so I think

yeah it'll go out soon I I'm not sure they're going to make this April launch window we're recording

on the 10th yeah it's yeah and they've got a whole wet dress rehearsal again and they've got

to really might when when's the window first of April is when it opens yeah that's

tight isn't it it's 20 days it's like 21 days so it's three days because they they need about a

week and a half they need to be on the pads about a week and a half for four launch because they

have to do a wet dress rehearsal which takes a few days then they have to turn it around for launch

so it's a bit tight yeah it's basically three weeks so they've got to get it out to the pad that

takes basically like essentially a couple of days for it to be all there and up and then yeah

it's a bit it's a bit of touch and go so maybe medium yeah yeah yeah but that's not the main focus

of our discussion no no no no no no no no our main focus of discussion is that they are completely

overhauling the whole last miss program and I think you're in agreement with me that this is

absolutely the right thing to do I was really excited by this I was like finally someone has

had the balls to actually stand up and say Artemis is not working this is not right yeah this is not

yeah probably listen to it I bet Jared Jared probably listen hello Jared it's probably yeah I love

it Jared I just want if you listen to us yeah yeah he's probably listening and go like that's a good

idea yeah yeah yeah right but is it we said this for a while the various people have said this

for a while there's not just us there's various podcasts and shows and if you've sort of been

following after so it's been saying this is really weird kind of program line up what they're

trying to do the schedule and which missions it just seems all very old and chaotic and a bit

messy and yeah and I think the biggest concern that we've had is the huge gaps between launches

and the huge leaps in kind of achievements slash technology that's required between missions

so it's like you know Artemis one to Artemis two we're over three years at this point yeah it's

and the kind of the technological leap between the two is not too bad because it was just an

uncrew test and then a crew test but to go from it from this Artemis two to Artemis three which

was going to be a landing mission and we don't even have a landing and also just it was always

kind of weird thing where you sort of it was such a big jump in the you're going from essentially

in the in the kind of historic way we're going from kind of Apollo eight and we haven't done

Apollo seven yeah so we're combining Apollo seven and eight and then we're jumping straight

to 11 yeah it's just it's seen illogical and dangerous and Jared Isaacman has finally

called the plug and said this isn't safe it isn't in our interest to do it like this and so he

has completely revamped the Artemis timeline and it's brilliant so now Artemis three is no longer

the landing yeah Artemis three is going to be a low earth orbit mission yes where they will

the main kind of goal is to practice rendezvous in now this is interesting with one or both

lunar landers yeah but that that's the crazy thing because they were going all right let's

let's go and do essentially Apollo eight one big mission let's just kind of combine that and go

and then we're going to just jump straight to let's go to the moon getting a lander and land

you haven't even practiced like a crew docking no that they this would work yeah and it's not even

the technological side it's like giving the crew a chance to practice doing it well yeah see what

it's it's the ground crew well it's it's mission control more than anything I mean because actually

they're various astronauts who are practiced in docking because of course docking is something

we do all the time now it's not an unusual activity but it's still new

capsules and everything yeah but it's it's it's a sort of known quantity in terms of like the crew

and the crew you would send would have that kind of experience so it's not what in the simulator time

and stuff like that these simulators are very good now and you know so that's not too crazy

it was more for me the procedural thing of mission control yeah they've got to practice

that kind of you know what what what are they doing how are they running this mission and all the

little kind of problems of it and that's what you know Apollo 9 was you know Apollo 9 is this

kind of testing the getting all the procedures for you know going into the the module and docking

and the rendezvous and all that but doing it in an ortho bit where it was nice and safe exactly

if something goes wrong they can get back quickly exactly the crew can train in that but it's

actually more about mission control going right we need to go through all the procedures here we

need to actually write the manual on this so we we know how to have the like what what a little

pitfalls and things like yes exactly like if this if this flashes up can we ignore it or do we need

to do something and sometimes the two you actually physically do that the crew are perfectly fine

like yeah we look we docked spaceships before but then it will be that kind of whole procedural thing

and then doing it of course then you go and do Apollo 10 which where they're going to do it around

the moon and then they do Apollo 11 and it was really really automisers was just going like right

we're just going to go and do fly around and come back and then we're just going to land yeah

and it was just yeah exactly so they've now rammed it rammedied this so Artemis 3 is this

low earth orbit docking practice yes scheduled for 2027 and I thought it was really interesting

that the the wording was very specific it was with one or both landers because now it's

not just space acts with their starship supposed lander but also blue origin you've got

Jeff versus musky boy musky musk muscular yeah and yeah I have a sneaking suspicion they've introduced

that in a way of trying to encourage them both to get the hell on with it because yeah both will

want the glory of being the people who put because when it was just one of them it was like we'll

deliver your land at some point yeah it's right yeah we know there's competition now there's

a push to go well who's going to be the first guy who's going to get their first which one's

going to be successful yes and the blue moon lander which is the one for the origin we haven't

actually talked much about no no we haven't and so there's actually a cargo mission planned for

this year to the moon with blue moon and it's a big lander yeah it's a capacity of 3000 kilos

I think it's eight eight meters tall it's about the size of a tARDIS like an old telephone

box yeah yeah yeah like it's big yeah yeah yeah yeah it is um well I remember seeing big when they very

first announced it long long time ago when they did that surprise announcement like here's blue moon

and it doesn't look different but the original concept lander that they presented that you know

Jeff stood there when I had my lander um shining head shiny head um yeah the it was huge it was a

big arse thing but it's a different concept and you need to actually much more it's much more like

the old kind of Apollo moon lander and it's kind of concept basically and it's kind of originally

it's changed a bit but it's not a big arse rocket sitting on its bum no no that's the key that's

the difference yeah and the thing is like I'm gonna say it and I know that anyone who likes

Elon Musk is gonna listen and they're gonna be swearing at us but Starship has done what 13 flights

now something like that and has still not done yeah blue moon yeah blue moon is going to the moon

this year you know even if they mess up the landing because you know they haven't been before so

they may well but they are at least going to the moon this this is we were having a little chat

well I say you were dusted by having a little chat about all this yesterday when I was working

and I was like yeah I saw my message count okay think think think big big big as you do two of

you are having this conversation about all sorts of things I was like what the hell um and I think

my my top ends worth actually because we've been a bit down on the old and I'm saying actually

could we talk about how quickly we get there China stuff like that yeah we're saying if there is

what a country and an organization that could get to the moon quickly yeah it is NASA and the USA

it is it is in a absolutely given the right money yeah America and NASA could could be on the moon

more that's just on in two years easily and I think especially like with Trump as president he

really wants us to have also the end of his presidency presidency he really wants it so I think

they could end up with like a big cash injection to make it happen exactly and but why would

argue is the reason that I say that with with you know I think I'm going to say yeah the Americans

and the NASA it's because actually they've done soft controlled landings on the surfaces of places

four years so you look at Mars you know you look at how who's the organization that's got things

on Mars regularly and safely now it's it's that's it they have that capability and they have that

that kind of knowledge and this moon is different but it's also principles and they've landed on the

moon and and all those you know they've got all the the things they just need the money yeah and that's

what we've been saying for a long time is it's it's not about it's not a money thing yeah it's really

the money thing that they just have this has not been funded properly and they're trying to do it on

a budget and they're trying to shortcut it and so it was always and then they pick the wrong things

like bloody great SpaceX thing that's you know landing a tail lock on the moon you know yeah

what does concern me about both landers though that are proposed is they are both tall and skinny

yes and all the commercial missions have shown us thus far the tall and skinny talls over

skinny thing is yeah it's a bit more I think I don't know why they haven't kind of contacted

five fly aerospace they are the only commercial company to successfully land on the moon and

conduct a full mission why haven't they approached them and being like can you make a human version

shows you is the the the technical ability and the knowledge and and the tech it does exist and

exists in the state and if you if you threw the money at it and made you could make this happen

and it could you could land on into it they won't I don't think they can land on the moon in two years

that's not that I just don't think that's going to happen yeah I think that's a good point to

mention is that the landing is now Artemis four yes which is scheduled for 2028 now yes which is two

years but it's the thing is yeah we got to see what happens with Artemis three and the docking

and and the landers and to see what's ready and and I've got a funny feeling it'll change again

I don't think Artemis four will be the landed I think it'll be Artemis five and Artemis four will

be a polo tan exactly after that exactly same thing I think an Artemis four will end up

being basically a polo 10 mission where they do a big dress rehearsal of the landing they do

everything but yeah and then it'll be five which will be the big yeah the big stupendous landing

in probably about 20 29 20 30 and I also wonder if they'll kind of do an Artemis four a and a four

b yeah where they do this the whole thing with the crew when they do everything but land but then

the part b is they have a lander that actually goes and lands and takes off with no crew on it

they can go true but just make sure it can be done because that's something you could do very much

it wasn't they didn't have all the automation so they have now whereas now you could actually do

a exactly you could do an autonomous mission with a yeah completely I could absolutely see that

because I think what Jarrod is kind of saying is like this is this was too risky this was far too

risky we were going to kill people during this and there's been independent reports that

also says that they've said it's just too dangerous we don't think that the Artemis program this

is like government reports what you might say and that it's too dangerous in the way that it

is being turned out too many shortcuts trying to do it bizarrely too quickly yeah but it let it

like but over a huge huge time tape it I mean you look at the Apollo the Apollo program you know

when you look at you know Apollo 7 so that's the first crewed flight of the capsule that works

that's October 68 then yeah December 68 is Apollo 8 so they go to let me know just a couple

on later yeah and then March 69 you get Apollo 9 testing the stuff in orbit then May 69 you get

Apollo 10 they go back to the moon and do the dress rehearsal and it's July 69 they land so literally

October to July they do all the things that basically the Artemis program is doing for three years

ago hasn't done yet yeah we'll probably do in a couple of years time and it's like but they

were also trying to shortcut it and it was all just a mess yeah and this is what Jarrod is saying

is that he wants the cadence of flight down to 10 months is the goal between launches and I think

given the budget that's good yeah this is what we said about China in the China may well get

there first not because they actually thrown loads of money at this but they've thrown a decent budget

at it and they've had a decent plan and they seem to have like a decent plan that's like kind of

staged and they're they're kind of working through the program yeah and they put they put an

amount of money in that's we don't quite know how much money they put even the keys that they put

sort of reasonable in that that's kind of funding it and getting getting the milestones ticked off

and that's the problem with the that's right they just haven't got the budget at the moment

it's these and they never haven't you know it's all a bit of a mess so

this is the thing if you're going to do something as like stratospheric as going back to the moon with

people you you need the money yeah yeah you do and so it's yeah we were talking about this on the

back channel because this thing you know was like I think China's just going to do it they could do

it really quickly and it's like actually no I don't think China will do it quickly I think they

have a solid plan for 2030 and I think they will be 2030 when they get there because they have

lots of things that they haven't done yet they haven't sent their crude lander to the moon and

back America has done that yeah there's no kind of um sorry like when I say crude land I mean like

a capsule as well I should say a crude capsule has been to the moon and back

they're imminently going to send people to the moon and back right like the moon's vicinity

China there's no signs of China doing that any time too yeah yeah yeah and so these are all

incremental steps that China will need to do before they do a landing but you know they're 2030 time

right yeah and I think I think China are very much in that sort of if you want to kind of compare

it to Apollo they're very much in that sort of tight and Gemini stage yeah where they're working on

their lander all the stuff is being developed and but the astronauts are in that sort of euro they're

going back and 40 hang on to that's giving their crude experience and space the Gemini crews going

up and meeting and docking with the what's it called I've got the name of the blue in docking thing

they they had but they you know they they're getting the skills base and the mission controls

getting the experience stuff like that yeah they've been doing some probes to the moon which yeah

exactly so they're kind of mirroring what was going on through the 60s and of course it you know

did take that whole decade to get there so I think they you know they they're doing it in that kind

of similar way and what you'll see is that that kind of if you like the Apollo bit will kick in

in the same way it did in in America that it was actually was only in the last couple of years

of the 60s that the Apollo bit kicked in yeah yeah that will happen in sure you'll suddenly see

their their moon actual direct moon bit will kick in yeah for right you know 2027 2028 and suddenly

they'll yeah I think it'll be around 2028 is when I think what starts really seeing their kind

of crew moons yeah I mean they're still doing lunar missions they've got another one

planned for this year you'll see something they're they're version of Apollo 8 and things like that

that happened and then so I'm like oh yeah they did they did they did they did they test a lander

and stuff like you know it all kind of just suddenly happened yeah but it's always like you know

yeah and China's program is looking a bit more like Apollo 2.0 whereas you know that Artemis they

want to be long duration but then you know also China have not sent people to the moon before so you

would anticipate that their first stages would be more Apollo 2.0 and you know it's all about

what is it you're trying to do and I think of that we've said this before about Artemis is that

whether we don't there's no clear I think the problem with Artemis is no clear aim of exactly

what it is they're trying to are they just trying to go back because they want to go back and then

want to plant another flag and say like look it's still our moon yeah because there's no timeline

on when is Gateway happening when a module's going up like what exactly or is it they want to

permanent base this is the next stage and which is it is it a leapfrog to the Mars or is it actually

a thing itself yeah they talk about all that but it's like where's the plan what is the actual

what is yes exactly it's like how many missions are you doing before you do x y z and this

we could argue with the same with China like we don't actually know what it is but in a way

their goal is much simpler in that it's like the 60s they just actually want to get to the moon

and be that next country the planter flagge we've got here look at look at what we can achieve

so the in a way they've got a much more whether you think you agree with it or not it's much

more pure simple goal in we want to show our greatness we want to show our you know technological

ability by getting to the moon and landing on it put a couple of shorts there putting a move

over the flag there and yeah coming from octagon home and then we'll take it from there

whereas it's not quite clear because the Americans were into the moon it's not entirely clear

what it is they're doing and that's I think that's part of the ultimate problem is when you're trying

to sell it to the public and you try to sell it to the taxpayer you try to sell it to set

and senators and you're trying to sell it to the body what is it actually doing yeah why are you

buying this big arterocket and all its bits you know what what is the bottom line yeah exactly

so yeah it's um it's an interesting one but to summarize yes what's happening with the Artemis

revamp SLS rocket is being streamlined yep they're not having different configurations for every

Artemis and this is the speed at manufacturing let's just streamline the whole process so

Artemis rocket's moving forward will be very similar to the current configuration a few

minor tweaks none of this block one block two block one B it's going to be set and then it's

going to stick there Artemis three now is a lower thorbit mission for rendezvous with

sarship slash blue moon slash both then that's twenty seven twenty twenty eight is Artemis four

supposed to be a landing potential for twenty eight also have Artemis five a second landing

jaradized when once cadence the tenments between launches yeah I think it sounds sounds pretty good

so yeah and we want to say thanks jarad for pulling the socks up on Artemis and making it realistic

yes yes yes um yes yes yes yes he's done a great job and it really stick

yes that's why he likes he's not gone I want like six months or four months or something

between you know it's like ten months it's like realistic you see that's really just like saying

yeah like the year too long more but let's let's make this happen but yeah yeah so yeah let's see

what happened yeah and if anyone's listening you know you can like forward this episode onto jarad

yeah yeah yeah so we we will we don't know that he was listening to us to wrap it on yeah

should we want to e-mails should we move on some e-mails we've got loads of them we're not going to

do it all today are we we are not but it's good news we are finally getting our e-mails back so

yeah thank you to everyone who's been on contact we're going to Visto my god I think he's

he alone has like pushed most of the e-mails through because yeah when we said keep e-mailing us

he kept emailing us yeah um so yeah we've we've got loads to get through obviously we're not

going to be able to fit them all in this episode but we're going to kind of go through them in our

second episodes of the month over the next few months and we will work through them so keep

e-mailing us because you guys are saying there's all sorts of stuff yeah like it's been comments it's

been like look at this cool picture I took there's all sorts we're trying to live we will try and

work through a bunch so go on this this crack on then all right then so should we let's have a

self-glowing one to begin should we go for it I like a self-glowing go on oh let's let's do that

so we've got one comes from Gavin Huggett from a very cloudy Bournemouth I was in Bournemouth

yesterday Sunday actually I was in Bournemouth on Sunday look at that look at that look at that

and Gavin says hi Dr Jenny and Paul I've been an avid listener to the show for more than a year

now and you've kept me company for many a lonely commute I apps I know thank you for listening to

us I absolutely love the show and it's one of my monthly now by monthly thank you highlights

I love the interactions between you both it has me giggling to myself on many occasions well

gets us giggling so I'm glad it gets you giggling as well but I also appreciate the effort you put

into research in current topics and give us the benefit of your own expert inside and opinions

I really enjoy the new format the skyguides is brilliant I love the introduction of the moon guides

that was another listener's idea so yeah yeah a buzzingly overlooked object and I enjoy hearing

about its features even though I don't own a telescope being a bit of a binocular enthusiast

I love the binocular astronomy I still do lots it's pretty much the only astronomy I've done

this year is a little bit of a binocular astronomy yeah and whenever I travel it's not

telescopes that come with me it's binoculars so all I took on holiday this year was a pair of

binoculars a couple of months ago well a couple of weeks ago was a good pair of binoculars

cannot be underestimated like they're brilliant please keep it coming you guys are simply awesome

it's in the name oh you see what you did big Gavin you're Gavin Huggert so yeah thanks

thanks Gavin thank you for listening to us and if you've only been listening for a year

if you go a bit further back in the repertoire there's lots of interviews from back in the day

that you may enjoy we've got astronauts and scientists and all sorts of interesting people so

do do go and check out the back catalog and yeah have a dig into those right who's next then

let's have a look so next I'm going to throw at you here okay Alistair Alistair Frith

oh hello Alistair yeah hello there a long time e-mailer yeah exactly

found with the show big fan of show friend of show high team given that the main issue with the

tall thin landers starship etc is their propensity for falling over I'm just wondering what is

feasibility of building a nice flat landing pad before we send the space deal though full of cosmic

seamen seamen as they're you're disgusting and I love it can lunar regolith be used as a cement

to make a flat smooth level landing pad can we land accurately enough to hit it surely we can

we've been doing some earth for a few years now just a thought I'm sure it must have been looked

into land a squat robotic lander with the machinery to cement the regolith build the pad then land

the big rocket on it thought I said now this is interesting because actually I was reading a thing

the other day which I was going to slot into an episode in the future about the problem of landing

on the moon okay and this idea that actually all basically all the craplets kicked up every time

you land a rocket on the moon is basically we think is slowly creating a sort of very very

corrosive is wrong abrasive that's the word I'm looking for abrasive cloud around the moon

because lunar regolith can levitate exactly and the reason it can levitate is essentially in a

nutshell because there's no protective atmosphere no protective magnetic field

um it's more than magnetic field than anything but you you get um it gets bombarded by like charge

particles from the sun and then that in parts charge and then they can start floating yeah

and so you kick some up and it basically is like you still stay and there's there's a paper

I was looking at I said good book it's one for the future one for the future where it's basically

creating this sort of cloud of stuff around the moon and if we keep landing loads and loads of

big arse rockets there's a risk that it's actually going to kick up so much stuff that it's actually

going to be problematic that it will affect sexes I wonder about this it will affect landers it will

become more abrasive for like spacesuits and all these sorts of issues and so actually they are

seriously looking at this though if we're going to just keep landing on the moon actually we

probably should sort of have a way of making pads so if you're going to have a permanent base

there actually you need a landing pad because you need to not to be doing that. Yeah but landing

accurately is an issue so it is a slim lander from Japan a few years ago wanted to land with an

accuracy within a hundred meters and it achieved that and that is as accurate as you can be that's

the tip top at the minute so it's not like landing on earth now part of that issue is when they're

trying to land they're trying to avoid obstacles so actually if you've got maybe a landing pad that's

like the size of a football field you can actually land on that you know you can be accurate

to within that kind of size but it would have to be an enormous landing pad and then it's like how

many launches are you going to have to do to take the material up there but exactly but although

I think once you've actually got some stuff there you can actually then add some guidance equipment

the draws in your your rock is so much smaller pad like a beacon like you need some beacon this is

what you want to land exactly we have that technology we absolutely have that kind of ability on

it on earth to kind of you know it is how you blind land an aeroplane that you know at night in

the fog on a runway yeah yeah yeah yeah so actually I think it's all perfectly possible but yeah

this is interesting it is actually a massive issue yeah and instead of using yeah using

regular to like make the landing pad as it were China's actually going to try using lunar

regular in 3d printing yeah and their next Changi mission which is scheduled for this year it's

one of their technologies has to see can you use lunar regular if you're 3d print bricks because

their idea to build a moon base is to use regular to make bricks you don't have to take everything

with you all the time so that would be interesting to see yeah so the technology I think for using

the regular as a building material is kind of on the horizon but it doesn't actually exist yet

no no and like I'm going to be honest this kind of debris from launches is what concerns me about

starship because did you see the size of the crater that it put under the launch pad for the first

launch yeah when there wasn't the great big metal plate underneath it this is this is

as a side I mean do you want to get too much into this we've talked about before but yeah

we need bigger landers for the moon but I wonder if there is going to be a sort of

upper limit maybe like yeah exactly a limit on how big and perhaps things like starship and perhaps

even blue moon potentially are actually too big but certainly too big initially when you haven't

got a pad to land on yes and that actually you can only land on the moon with probably bigger

than a polo but small-ish landers because actually you're going to cause a massive problem throwing

this regularly up in the air into the air into the what do you call it what would you call it

throw it because see this is a problem we're not the air isn't it yeah that's the completely the

wrong thing um because it has an exosphere yeah right this is not an atmosphere it's called an

exosphere because it's like so 10 years ago above the surface doesn't sound quite right but yeah

yeah into the exosphere yeah and that that's yeah so yeah interesting it would be it's one to

one to follow that one to so yeah answers kind of picked up on the other thing then yeah really

interesting discussion point right next go on what's the next thing now uh next we've got Peter

lividink hello Peter long-time listener we know friend of the show and Peter says because you're

asking for it um I was always asking for it here you go another email hopefully this one arrives

promptly without e-path the electronic postman getting attacked by some e-dog causing problems

and because Paul mentioned it as he pretty much does for all things I spent some time imaging

in the month's prior here's a go at the jellyfish niblet yeah from 36 degrees south where it gets to

about 20 degrees elevation oh and he sent a link um to his ashtabin uh he says cheers and noots

because you know he is our penguin fancier friend Peter and I've had a look at your picture

it's gorgeous yeah it is it is gorgeous image is what I should be saying it's beautiful so

congratulate you even though it's only a 20 degree elevation you have done it justice

it's a gorgeous image it's gorgeous image I absolutely love it um so yeah thank you for sending

that across to us um so we're jellyfish though yeah if any listeners do you want to try and have a

look um at his image it is on ashtabin and the username is uh calfwego so c-a-f-u-e-g-o calfwego

go and hunt it down give it a thumbs up it's a really really like you've done it justice and thank you

so much for sharing it with us it's one of those images that you think years ago that would have been

like you would have been really impressed if that had come from like a professional telescope you

would have been like wow that's really cool but and the fact that this is now like amateur level

stuff as it still blows my mind that that is the kind of like image and detail and things that you

can now people are able to do it's just it shows the skills of people like Peter's and I actually

take my hat off because it's someone who just draws stuff yeah I do take my hat off to these people

spend I know I always take a video like kind of eyes imagery like but actually it is it is a hell

of a skill really and uh the effort and time they put in you know it's just that I always I just

the reason I sketch is actually I get instant results I can't be answered this is why I like

I like a sea star and I like the phone yeah because it's in so gratifying I'm I'm I'm gonna be

perfect love an image I just haven't got the patience it's just the time and effort to do the

kind of ask your photography that Peter's doing that it just so much goes into it and you get

extraordinary results you know it the the time and effort that you put in it is reflected in

yeah the quality of what you produce complete so congratulations Peter so um two so

official I've got easy sent so many you sent so many you sent so many and I've got to I've

got to do Vesto so I picked one oh Vesto I picked one we are alive I picked one I picked one

so he said I've got one from Vesto too it is so sad to hear of the defunding of British astronomy

the once great nation that discovered such things as that line that runs down the entire earth

through Greenwich and other celestial facts has fallen on hard times I understand that you have

that great big Brexit to pay for but still it's sad to see British science let go like some old

manor house with a leaky roof and pieces falling out the stained glass windows perhaps Australia

come to the aid of old blighty like we did during the war send us your poor huddle brits some cold

to keep the warm and some beef jerky in oranges to keep the rickets away with sympathy Vesto

I just said just abuse be that one that is a good one but yeah we haven't talked about the

the Darth of British astronomy or we did we mentioned it a couple little while we did about six weeks

ago to me and yeah I haven't we haven't followed that yet that's probably for next month we'll

have a little yeah yeah yeah it's a good actually we should follow up and see where we are on that

way that's going but yeah and I have another email from Vesto again he's in my list so I've got

Vesto says with no reply from you for months we're sorry Vesto it's not because we hate you it's

because we couldn't get into our emails I'm beginning to doubt if I exist surely you would at least

acknowledge with a simple heal unless like in that Bruce Willis movie I've passed into the other side

but I am in denial about it and hallucinating that I hear voices coming from my pod player are they

really only in my own imagination no we are still alive so we have just had many issues accessing

emails but now we are getting back on track absolutely absolutely right that brings us to the end

that brings us to the end because I think we've rapidly done enough and we've got loads more

email so we will do some more we have and we are going to work through them so we can have

to have it read you out now it's working keep it's going to happen over the next few months thank

you so much we've had so many people we have got Scott Jorgensen is contacted us we've got

Roy from the Isle of Wife yeah we've got all sorts of people who else is more Vesto I'm just

flicking through we've got Ian Cook yeah we've got yeah there's all sorts going on here

sort of people all sorts of people all emails there's there's loads and loads of emails to get

through and we are going to so thank you ever so much everyone who has contacted us we're so glad

that you are still with us and still listening yeah just as shouting into the void so yeah thank you

ever so much if you do want to email us yeah our email is still still for now the show at

awesome astronomy dot com so that's the show at awesome astronomy dot com indeed let us know your

thoughts your feelings your send us your pictures your videos yeah send us questions yes tell us

what you want to do now we've got we've got questions aren't so but we've we've we've thought we

just throw a few out there a bit on just see how we go and so until next time it's goodbye from

so I don't need this awesome astronomy is produced by Ralph Paul Jen John Damien and Dustin

and it's free to use with attribution the music by Star Solzman with Stinger Variation by Rin

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let the stars guide your curiosity