Be Frank With Mac Ep 1 | Thembisa Fakude: A New Era for Africa & Asia: BRICS, Global Systems & Power Shifts

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Release yourself from order and logic and enter a new place.

It's not work, it's not home.

Here, no maths and control, no books have written.

Nothing is certain, everything is possible.

Welcome to broadcast and show magic.

I'm a humanist, doesn't end well.

Politics and international affairs aren't just about treaties, conferences, or even think tanks.

They're about influence, they're about narrative, they're about who gets heard and who doesn't.

Our guest tonight has lived that reality from the very beginning.

He was born and raised during a part dates away too.

He watched events like the June 16, 1976 uprisings from the eyes of a child.

Experiences that shaped his lifelong engagement with justice, politics, and even global affairs.

Fast forward decades later, Timbyser Fakude has worked as a journalist at Al Jazeera, served as bureau chief,

led research units and now directs Africa, Asia, dialogues, a forum shaping Africa's voice in global policy spaces.

From reporting headlines to influencing policy debates from visa inequality to conflict resolution,

his career spans continents, disciplines, and even perspectives.

Timbyser Fakude, welcome to Be Frank with Mac.

You've had an illustrious career, not only in media, but in politics and in all the wonderful things that you've done.

I've got one question for you.

What?

In the jihad, there are pocket lips.

The hell is going on in the world right now.

When you sit down and look at what's happening geopolitically, what's happening in the US, what's happening in South Africa, what's happening in Africa, what's happening in Libya,

you know, when you sort of have that crystal ball in your hand, what does it look like to you?

To me, it looks like a mess.

Well, I think it's not a mess, but it's competition of ideologies for space.

And I can give you a religious justification, and I can also give you a geopolitical justification.

And the biggest challenge, of course, with the religious explanation or square on is that there is no flexibility.

So you've got religious people who believe in their divine books about what's supposed to happen or what should happen in the region.

And that is a challenge.

The geopolitical explanation, of course, is competition for power and resources.

Donald Trump and the Americans who have decided to go back into the utilization of fossil fuels want oil and energy, whether it's in Venezuela or in the Middle East.

So Iran is one of those countries that produces a large amount of oil and gas.

So they must be disrupted so that Donald Trump can instruct at a cheaper price.

And one, the other warmonger in that part of the world is Benjamin Netanyahu, who wants to continue kicking the can down the road.

So that can remain in power because he knows when it does settle, he's likely to go to jail.

So this is basically it.

These religious zealots who have their own divine instructions on how to go about conducting politics.

But at the same time, of course, these greedy geopolitical politicians and capitalists led by Donald Trump who want to create havoc in the Middle East in particular.

And now in the Atlantic, including Venezuela, we've got a little bit part of the Atlantic to extract as much oil and energy sources as they can.

That's a very beautiful and flowery way of putting that it's a shirt show.

The world is a royal mess and it's a shirt show.

But let's maybe start from the beginning.

You hail from Sowet.

You saw or had a dilemma of the 1976 uprisings.

You've grown in leaps and bounds, not only politically, but in your career, in media, you've traveled the world.

But at that time, when you think about running around in the dusty streets of Sowet, during that upheaval,

do you ever think the world would be your canvas and you'd be going up and down, having these conversations about geopolitics, politicians, and the world at large?

No, not at all.

And this is where I'm always grateful to our forefathers, at least those who are involved in this struggle, who enabled us to do what we're doing today and have the exposure that we've had.

But I never thought of it that way.

Not to standing, of course, that I had a place of being influenced by some of my family members who had a much more bigger view of the world.

But I never thought that would be part and parcel of it.

In fact, I looked at them at the time as just, you know, I don't know what they were doing.

My uncle was one of those first to travel to Argentina.

And those days, it was, you know, communist, socialist, influenced, and trouble.

And I didn't understand what this guy was doing, but anyway.

And in the only time she appears, you know, we had so many influences across the road.

There was someone doing that, and there was a Rastafarian down the road.

But you never placed them globally.

You thought these were guys from the township, and they had no association or attachment with other international formations.

Yeah, so the short answer is, I never thought, you know, anticipated that or do it or done.

There's something very interesting about your trajectory.

You're a Muslim, right? And you know, Ramadan Mubarak, how did that come about?

You know, when did you normally say you revert as Muslims?

We say you revert, you don't say when did you become a Muslim? We believe you're born a Muslim.

When did that change happen? And, you know, how has that influenced and impacted your life?

Well, I became a Muslim at a much more young age, 92.

And largely, I was always been religious.

In fact, when I was a Christian, I was one of the leaders of the student Christian movement.

But in school. And then I became a Muslim, and I became the leader of the Muslim movement.

So, I've always been religious, and it wasn't a difficult reversion because it's God.

And worship is worship, just, you know, tweaking certain ways on how you do it, including playing and fasting.

But it's more the execution, which is different.

But the rest of it is all the same.

You see, for me, now, I get a minute to go and say, it's a stoop.

So, go high when I became a Muslim.

My mother was like, thank God, at least you're praying.

My mom too.

My mom said, just leave him.

Whatever it is, as long as it sticks to the solitans, he's becoming a good boy.

And this is it, you know, it is kept away from all the common practices.

And when we come from all this construction of alcohol, drugs, and all those kind of things that are prevalent within our community.

So, we became good people. In other words, better human beings.

Better human beings, getting our eyes, getting our ears, getting our bodies and private parts and all other that goes with that.

And that made us, to an extent, you became different.

And then you become more focused.

But it also opens up opportunities in terms of international relations,

relationships, associations, and opportunities.

How did becoming a Muslim shape your political ideology?

Because it plays a huge role. You know, we know politics, we understand the ANC, we know the struggle.

But there's also the politics of Islam and the politics of religion.

And how the two sort of cross, we're seeing it right now.

In fact, we're seeing it in real time now.

We're almost like politics and religion are becoming the sort of mess.

And then this is where we find ourselves. So, at that time, after you became a Muslim,

how did they also change what was happening in 76, what is happening in the streets of Soweto,

and this sort of religious upbringing that you're now getting?

Well, it made me more international. I became much more keen in understanding international politics.

But in Poland, I was fortunate to also establish relations with many countries from different parts of the world.

Understanding the politics of Iran, for example, the Ayatollah Khomeini in 1979 was extremely important.

It also helped to meet other important players around the world.

But it was the struggles of these people that actually influenced me,

and the opportunity to travel, particularly the Middle East, to understand history.

That history was not in 1869 or 1886, as it is case in Johannesburg,

that history dated back before Christ.

So you go to places like Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran,

and you look at the depths of civilization.

Way before the United States, which is not even more than 300 years old,

and Donald Trump doesn't understand that if you travel to some places in Syria, for example,

you look up smack in terms of how you are so fear and look at what is now the most good, the first,

basically, cathedral in the Western Hemisphere.

So that helped you in a way, because you became more aware of what is going on around the world.

You decided to study politics at that university after politics then came journalism.

There's a huge misconception around almost like selling out.

Especially when you move from being a journalist and then you go into politics,

where you feel like you've been sold by the system.

Is this a misconception, or do you believe this gives you greater depth,

gives you a greater understanding of what's actually happening on the ground?

I think so. I think it gives you an actual, you become a player.

So the former is about reporting what's going on.

And the frustration of reporting, of course, leads you to want to be an activist.

So I was an activist before then I became a journalist.

Then now I'm more into thinking and trying to make the word better.

So you want to now play in terms of shaping public opinion at that level.

An unfortunate in South Africa, our understanding of international relations, of course, is still young,

I think comparatively to other countries that have been involved in this business of thinking

and geopolitics for much more longer.

We're still very much inward looking.

So our politics rotate around McDonald's Commission and not just standing at the foreign policy positions

and decisions that we make impact on what goes on this country.

And I think it's going to be more so now that we're wrapped both 10% in the nail

and don't Trump in a wrong way.

10% in the general particulars go the next two-graded South Africa.

Another question is, after this, who's next?

And knowing and having followed and studied the politics of the region,

I would be surprised if we start targeting South Africa because of the ICJ case.

So we've put him in the crosshairs, right?

Our going to the ICJ and ideally charging him in a manner of speaking.

We've put ourselves in the crosshairs of somebody that is lunatic, so to speak, especially when it comes to his decision-making

and he's got this big brother that's also Booly now, you know, the orange man with the blonde hair.

And that is a dangerous position to be in.

Do you think South Africans even understand that?

No, I don't think we understand the gravity of this.

I mean, Donald Trump's accusation of white genocide is a pretext.

Like it was the case with Iran that Iran was planning to attack Israel,

and this is why it was a preemptive strike.

That's what they call this current standoff.

We don't know what Donald Trump is trying to do with this false accusation of white genocide.

But it could again be a pretext that could be used to his followers, particularly the Make America Great Again.

There's lots in the United States that it's justified to remove whoever it is in South Africa

because they're involved in or engaged in this genocide.

So this is very serious.

And I think it's going to get even more serious with the shutting down of one straight of Hormuz,

two with the Houthis doing what they're doing in the Red Sea,

which is likely to close the bubble Monday, which leads us to Suez Canal.

So the traffic from now on from east to west to east is going to have to go via Cape of Good Hope,

which therefore means Cape of Good Hope is going to be the hub.

And once that happens, it becomes a significant place

through which all the maritime traffic will have to stop,

which will make us, once again, extremely relevant.

That will also mean we need to have an amicable friendly government in this country.

So it's a serious, serious situation that, yeah, of course,

probably the current occupiers of power right now will probably not be there,

but it's important for us to start thinking what kind of things and planning and advance on how to prevent.

10 pieces are drawing really busy, come I think.

You know, I'm sitting here, I'm thinking, wow, wow, wow, wow, I'm blown away

because when you do at the dots, it makes perfect sense.

We do understand it.

I mean, and I got into this so that we could perhaps get to this point.

But when you look at what's happening inside Africa,

we're worried about the 10-daddy portal and things like that.

Yet, as you say, once again, geopolitics are so, so, so important for us

and we play such an important role.

But I don't think we understand the power that we have.

Kapokinna maybe that is naive.

No, we don't understand it.

And we have kind of relinquished this responsibility to very few in Derko,

who are currently making all of these important decisions on behalf.

And for on Sunday, for example, I don't know why we're so quick to issue statement against Iran.

Yes, we had to issue statement.

But you know, it's nice sometimes to piggy bank on some bigger power.

Don't put your head on the block when issue statements that notwithstanding where we are

in terms of our relations with the United States and Israel.

And we're the first one to come and talk about that.

We have a base just here in Botswana.

Just by the way, the mustn't think, you know,

that Donald Trump is going to have to travel for years and years and years

or the American army needs to travel for, you know, months and months just to get here.

They've got a base right here next door.

Botswana, Muna.

Bilamma faking.

Not sure.

But also, you know, we are blessed and also cast at the same time

with a geopolitical positioning.

So we've got both the analytic and the Indian ocean.

And that is important.

And you know, I collect maps.

If you understand geopolitics, you need to look at the map.

Yes.

Now, if you look at the map of South Africa and where we are,

we'll always be vulnerable.

But also, we have endless opportunities in terms of benefiting from maritime business.

But we're not fit for papers.

But the challenge, of course, of being where we are at the moment is that we're sharing a huge

course line on analytic ocean.

We're sharing a huge course line on Indian ocean.

And that's where the world's meet.

If the capers could open out of it, they could it out of the way.

And this is extremely important.

It's all geopolitics.

And I'm not saying because it's not responsible.

But we need to be really, we need some people who are fit for people strong,

who can think and understand where the world is going at the moment.

For South Africa and, you know, and many other sort of developing countries.

What does BRICS really mean for us as a country?

And can we depend on BRICS?

Or is it just another formation that is to useless that will necessarily have an impact?

Well, we tend to fight more than we can chew, you know, punching away above our weight.

Joining BRICS was assuming a huge responsibility.

Besides, we are tiny little BRICS.

And in this BRICS, we're like a Lego piece in this BRICS.

Sure.

But guess what?

Opportunities that opportunities and contributions to BRICS do not take that into account, right?

So you're dealing with a billion plus people from China and India.

You're dealing with another 500 plus million people from Brazil and Russia.

And we are like somewhere 65 million.

And with like a province in each one of those countries, right?

This province is 65 million people in India.

You know what I mean?

And we have to contribute, of course, you know, as an equal partner.

You can't be treated as a BRIC.

So whatever contributions are required by BRICS, including, for example, the so-called BRICS bank,

we need to put in some deposits there.

And those deposits will not be calculated based on your size and demographics.

And so that's the one point.

I don't think BRICS would do anything.

One would have expected that BRICS would have acted as a block when Trump came up with his trade tariffs.

It was an opportunity for BRICS to show up.

Yes.

And Lloyd himself as an alternative.

But guess what happened?

It was a standalone policy.

It's whether it was India negotiating on its behalf, on its behalf.

China did this in Russia.

We can blame them because they're fighting an unwinnable war in Ukraine.

And South Africa also was doing itself.

It was not block positioning one, two is right now a full member of BRICS Iran is engaged in this unjustified war

with poor United States and Israel in ways BRICS.

Yeah, everybody else is issuing statements, separate statements or members of BRICS ashing statements separately.

In fact, the same BRICS members are taking another BRICS member.

Well, BRICS members at least, not Saudi Arabia has joined in, it was invited, but it's snapped us or snapped the BRICS.

But United Arab Emirates is a member of BRICS and Iran is hitting United Arab Emirates.

We haven't even had a statement.

Nothing whatsoever.

Iran Amoudi is a close friend of Benjamin Netanyahu.

He was there not long ago.

India is pulling a different direction.

So BRICS, I'm not sure what is there for.

And I think, to an extent, it's been weakened by the internal challenges of individual countries,

particularly Russia and China.

China is, I mean, China is, you know, even here, you know, even foreign policy.

Also, our, you know, China-Fest policy, even though they've not calculated it.

But it's all about China, right?

So they're not going to be taking that responsibility of leading BRICS.

The one thing that, you know, is obviously the biggest topic right now is what is happening in Iran.

For me, and for my understanding, and what I've been reading, what I've been seeing,

is the world about change as a result of the death of Khmerni.

The Supreme Leader of Iran, Iran is not backing down.

But what is happening right now in the Middle East?

What impact is that going to have on the global community and the future of how countries now view themselves,

especially from an autonomous point of view?

Because Iran is almost said, oh, guys, you don't have to be afraid of these people.

Yeah, I think they've tasted the shock absorbers of both United States and Israel.

And the world is about to change.

And the Gulf countries are also happy, by the way, contrary to what most people believe.

They're like, ah, what about me, ah, what about me?

Yeah, because it's the only way you can get rid of the American basis, right?

So the excuse will be, guys, you know, we are threatened by your presence.

So please leave.

Yes.

Because Iran is now...

And that's a big statement.

That's a big statement.

So when you have the exit of the Americans in the Gulf and the Middle East in general,

there's going to be a vacuum and that vacuum has to be filled.

And I think it's going to be filled by Turkey.

And if Turkey fills that up, then you have Turkey and you've got Iran against Israel.

That will change until the political balance of power in that region.

So, and we don't know then what will happen in terms of self-preservation.

If Israel is attacked, I think it's likely to resort to the worst position

which all of us, of course, pray not not going to happen.

Which is nuclear, of course.

So I think what's going to see happening now is Qatar, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain,

are all going to kick all.

We're going to ask the Americans to leave the region.

And Turkey is going to take that position.

You've already had, for example, left Talibanist former Prime Minister of Israel saying

the next Iran is Turkey.

Now, you're going to have a serious situation if that happens.

That's one.

The other point, there's a group of individuals called the kids.

Other Kurds, yes.

The Kurds have got an ambition of creating a self-preservation called the Kurdistan.

And this is a grouping that Trump and Netanyahu are hoping will replace

the current government of Iran.

So they've already started, you know, educating within Iran.

Now, if that happens, Turkey is just dealt with the Kurds' intake.

They're called them PKK.

They were dealt with by Turkey.

Syria has also done the same in terms of including them or integrating them into their own military.

So you have the kids that are involved in the movement.

They never want their own state.

But now the challenge is that their state, they are claiming peace of Iran, peace of Syria, peace of Iraq,

and peace of Turkey.

So it's, if you look at the map.

Yes.

So if that happens, then there's a havoc in this whole situation.

And I think the biggest loser here, eventually, is going to be Israel.

By the way, it's not an old state, Israel.

Many people forget it was established in 1948 after they killed and displaced thousands of Palestinians.

And so that's yesterday.

Yeah.

And if you look at the politics of the region.

Yes.

In 1948 is nothing.

You know, we're talking about people who survived and lived thousands of years.

Yes.

So I went to, I went to St. Paul's in London in the British way of proud.

This was established in the year of our Lord, 12th, 12th, was something like that.

Yes.

And then you go to Hagia Sophia, 580, 80, like mind boggling.

Yes.

So if you come from so wet, you go to these places and you see where Jesus Christ actually walked.

Yes.

It's mind blowing.

It's mind blowing.

So I saw I was in Iraq.

And in Iraq, in September, there's something called Salon Manu.

So something that falls from the sky.

And they take it, they make sweet coffee and they eat it.

How long are you asking this thing?

What is this thing?

Tell me, no, Salon Manu.

Everybody knows it.

Guess what is that?

Manu from heaven.

Still today.

Manu from heaven.

Manu from heaven.

Till today, it happens.

They still use it.

So I brought it from my mother.

She was almost in tears.

So this is history of the Middle East.

Tell me something.

Salon Manu, right?

Yes.

It's mind blowing from heaven.

It's mind blowing from heaven.

Yeah.

It's near Iraq when they were moving, they should not face it.

They got mind blowing from heaven.

But it's not like, it's not a medical.

It doesn't stop.

It's almost like when they go with the thumbs up.

It's not a motor.

It's still happening.

It's still happening.

It's still happening.

It's still happening.

It's still happening.

It's like, for example, you know when they said people of Moses.

When they were crossing that it's opened.

When there's a low tide.

Of course, there's a path.

Yes.

And I went there.

And I go there all the time.

You actually can walk across to the other side.

I mean, they walked on water with Jesus.

Of course.

And they know exactly when it is, right?

Yes.

And then when the tide comes back and it shuts off when people died.

Because they miscalculated the time of the tide.

Yes.

The last example I wanted to give you as well.

It's this whole business of El Nino.

Seven or ten days of planting ten days of drought with Joseph.

Yes.

It's happening till today.

So all of these things are not miracles.

It's just lazy theology and people not understanding and not being there

to realize and experience it.

That's, you know, what happened or what were told in the Bible.

It's got nothing to do with the miracle of God.

It's, you have to understand science to realize who created it.

Now, lazy theology always say, okay, no, no, it's a miracle.

Yes.

But it's not miracle.

It is like when people who drink wine they will tell you that the first class is nice, right?

Yes.

Second one is okay.

It's called elasticity in economics.

Then the third one is all right and the fourth one is all right.

Now when Jesus came and made wine, put water.

They couldn't tell the difference because there were not ten class of wine.

Yes.

So, it's possible, right?

Yeah.

So these are, it's a part you can't be saying, oh, it's a miracle.

You know, Jesus Christ made wine.

No, it's just added water.

And with the, with the theft and the taste reducing as you consume,

of course, you can't tell the difference.

It's in town.

If you go and you put anything in a viceroy beer, I mean, a viceroy bottle.

Mm-hmm.

And you say, oh, you put the viceroy brandy, which one?

Energy missing.

With some of my family members, you used to do it in a gymnasium or whatever.

It's called expensive.

And the kids, the guys who don't know it are tangible.

And you tell them, this is a serious stuff.

Hey, you know, not, not of your oldies.

They don't, they'll never know the difference, right?

They will, so these are the kind of things that requires us to like a relatively deep deep,

not only in politics, but generally in terms of dealing with issues.

You know, earlier on when we spoke, we see spoke about the fact that we can look at this thing

from a political point of view, but you can also look at it from a religious point of view.

Maybe let's also have a look at it from a religious point of view.

But it's happening in the world right now.

It's also a sign of the times, right?

When you look at what has been happening with the Epstein files and some of the things

that are being revealed there about this occult practices that are happening,

eating of children, you know, drinking of blood,

there's sort of these free masons that are these sick human beings

that are doing all of these things, which Donald Trump has started a war

to try and take our eyes off of that.

And you see what is happening even from a religious point of view

and what is, what would be termed the holy lands?

Is there a religious way of also explaining this to say,

yes, but this is a sign of the times?

Yeah, both in Islam and Christianity, at least I'm, I'm of fair with both religions.

These are certainly sign of times.

If you look at the book of revelations or look at the Quran,

tells you about what will happen when that time approaches.

And if you look at what's going on at the moment,

it is certainly a sign of time.

So luckily we both, you know, we, we, we geopolitical teachings,

but at the same time we generalism, Muslim, and you understand

these important scriptures.

So I don't write it off.

And so I try to be realistic in terms of my geopolitical analysis,

but at the same time I also believe in a Quran

and I believe that there will be times like this

and this will determine that.

And we need to hasten towards doing good

and making sure that at least we safe when that happens.

And you can only be safe when that happens if you continue doing good.

And staying away from trouble.

And, you know, fighting injustice and protecting our environment

and do what we have to do.

But if you look around you, people just don't really care much about,

you know, there's an obsession about accumulation and money

and out of that, you know, I lost my wife not long ago

and you realize that, you know, these kind of things happen.

And when they happen you also know that, you know,

it's a matter of time for you before you go the same way.

So the concentration and the realization of what you live for,

particularly for young people, is key.

This is a new struggle of balancing both your intellectual capabilities

and understanding, but also your spiritual fitness.

So that, you know, you get to understand, when logic fails you,

you can only resort to the other one.

After you've exhausted everything else about why this is happening,

why do we have Donald Trump?

And you can say, well, God knows best, you know.

Because sometimes we just don't understand why certain things are happening,

or how and why people can be as brutal and evil as they are at the moment.

So I think that sometimes these kind of human beings are sent deliberately

to shake comfort zones, to strengthen us spiritually and intellectually.

And I think that's what Benemite and Iao in the legs of Donald Trump are here to do.

And God sent them for a particular purpose to strengthen our resolve

and remind us that activism is not a part-time occupation.

You know, you have to, you're in a perpetual permanent struggle

of trying to make your environment in surroundings better than you found them.

I'm going to ask you to look at your crystal ball once again

and then closing and say,

when you look at what is happening right now,

where we hit it, one as a country,

and is the world going to be a very different place,

not maybe even in the nearest future within the next couple of months?

Well, I think we're heading towards a reconfigured world.

And unfortunately, we're not part of it.

Unfortunately, self-hills.

We're not part of the digitization of information, for example,

Google is involved in a process of digitizing every single book

that's ever been written.

And if you're not on Google, you don't exist.

And some of the things are okay.

No agency in terms of ensuring that you Google.

If you go now and look at a great human being

with the name of Robert Mangalisa Subuguay,

two lines, you know.

This was sort of a guy, you know,

but why?

Because his books and writings are not digitized.

And then you go and look at some non-starter

when I'm in it anyhow,

it dominates the entire internet.

So kids who are doing research now,

go to a library, don't look at books,

they look at what's on the internet.

Since they have to write about Robert Subuguay,

what are they going to write about?

So the world is changing,

not only in terms of the geopolitics,

but in terms of our engagement.

AI relies, largely, on what's online.

That's why, for example,

when you're growing up, there's something called

garbage in garbage outness.

So whatever is on the system,

when the computer exists,

many young people think that by being on social media,

social media is not a URL.

So you're not Googleable.

AI is not going to take your Facebook posts and write about it.

It takes what's online.

So you have to always try to have a link

that will be part and parcel of AI.

So to be present.

To be present.

Social posts, it's not URL.

It's a link.

And it doesn't mean anything.

So if someone wants to find out about you,

they go to Instagram.

They'll never know anything about it.

In fact, they might have deleted it,

given that we might be charged now

for our digital presence

because space is becoming smaller and smaller.

And you have all of these data centers

that are coming up.

They're certainly going to be changing us for emails now.

Emails are free,

but I don't think emails are going to be free for very long.

We're going to start charging us

because it's getting more and more expensive.

So the world is changing.

But there's no agency for us to understand

this is very, very important.

You know, I'm part of something called

our shark in Istanbul.

We gather young people,

thousands of them.

It's, at the moment,

the biggest youth gathering in the world.

We learn people from various parts of the country.

And they talk about the future.

We don't have anything like that in South Africa.

And it's scary.

But importantly is the digital presence,

which is going to determine

and ensure a seat in the table for us.

We know it.

Like nowhere.

No one is keen.

We're not participating in this.

And by the way, there's open invitation.

And for me, I think the most ancient thing right now

is this digitalization of publications.

What have I been written before

has to be ingested into the system.

So that AI can find resources to respond

whenever required or asked to do so.

In the absence of that,

nobody cares.

Nobody exists.

Nobody's going to be speaking to you.

The whole business of a CV,

the matter of time is going to be over.

CV is going to be based on what's online about you.

About you.

I've just been appointed to be one of the trustees

and one of the relief organizations.

And they wanted my social media interactions

and all of that.

They didn't care about what I wrote in paper.

They wanted to go and see what's on screen.

How many followers do you have?

And if you delete it,

and they can see that this was deleted, deleted.

We lose opportunities.

Now, even that is important

because the responsibility of what you put online,

garbage in, garbage out.

So you put garbage is going to come speak against you.

How many of us are telling our kids that

or teaching that at school, for example?

I mean, in South Africa, you should get a certificate.

You are celebrated for getting a weird processor certificate.

This day and age is not supposed to be a qualification.

It's not supposed to be something that is supposed to be proud of.

The essential skill is like driver's license.

It's not a qualification.

You don't have to have a party in celebrating

that you now can operate Excel,

which is, by the way, going to be out of fashion very soon.

But we are not giving our kids skills

that are relevant for future

and we're not making them fit for papers.

No, do we encourage them to understand

what's happening in geopolitical around the world

and what young people in China are doing?

What young people in the United States are doing?

You saw, I don't know where they watched

those robots that a couple of days ago

come and we are in it.

They are in different situations.

It's a different level.

It's a different, totally different level.

And I don't think we there yet,

you know, fit for papers to ensure that our kids

and the young people in South Africa are general

not only to their partner with their colleagues outside the country

because many South Africans don't even participate.

They haven't been to Lissot Archana.

Lissot, Lissot, let's leave, you know, anywhere else,

the global world.

Lissot, you know, you ask,

I'm only South African,

have they been to Lissot, or Swazi land,

Zimbabwe, Namibia,

and these are just over our borders.

Many people haven't.

Tell me, I wish this could go on for hours.

Your wealth of knowledge,

it's been an absolute mind-boggle having you with us,

you're not going to be frank,

because I can hopefully we can do this again.

I think there's a lot that we still need to talk about

and hopefully you will also become a regular here.

It's been an absolute pleasure and I wish you all the best in your endeavors

and with your organisations and the different caps that you wear.

And thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and time with us.

Thanks for having me.

Awesome.