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Becoming The Warden | The Legacy and Legend that is Burl Cain
About this Episode
In this episode of Bloody Angola Woody Overton and Jim Chapman tell the story of legendary Warden Burl Cain. Burl Cain was the longest serving Warden in the history of Louisiana State Penitentiary and his vision and reforms changed this historic prison forever. This docu-series is the most anticipated and sought after we have ever done on Bloody Angola Podcast and it starts now!#BloodyAngolaPodcast #BurlCain #Becomingthewarden #Louisianastatepenitentiary #PrisonWarden #Podcasts #Dixoncorrectionalinstitute #DCI #MDOCOur Sponsors for this episode have a great deal for you!GET 16 FREE MEALS PLUS FREE SHIPPING AT HELLOFRESH!HelloFresh delivers step-by-step recipes and fresh, pre-portioned ingredients right to your door. First, you set your meal plan preferences with options for carnivores, vegetarians, calorie-counters, and more. You'll choose from 30+ delicious weekly recipes carefully put together by the amazing chefs!Click Here to Take advantage of 16 FREE MEALS and FREE SHIPPING!FULL TRANSCRIPT BELOWBECOMING THE WARDEN: THE LEGACY AND LEGEND THAT IS BURL CAIN PART 1Jim: Hey, everyone, and welcome back to Bloody-
Woody: -Angola.
Jim: A podcast 142 years in the making.
Woody: The Complete Story of America's Bloodiest Prison.
Jim: And I'm Jim Chapman.
Woody: And I'm Woody Overton.
Jim: And we're back, Woody Overton.
Woody: Back in the saddle.
Jim: Back in effect.
Woody: Back in effect.
Jim: And we're bringing y'all a hell of a story today. Highly requested.
Woody: Yes. A legend.
Jim: Legend. Someone you have some experience with.
Woody: I do. I have a lot of years of experience with him. Solid dude. They can say whatever they want to. Everybody's going to have their haters or whatever. And certainly, he marches to the beat of a different drummer, but he's a visionary and has affected so many lives.
Jim: Boy, he sure has. And I'll tell you, as far as research, I've probably enjoyed researching this man more than just about anyone I've researched.
Woody: I've read his book years ago when it came out. Of course, I have the family history at Angola and all that, and of course, my personal history with him. Just super, super intelligent, super unique.
Jim: Yeah, very. I think that's a great word to describe him. And of course, if you're hanging by a thread right now trying to figure out who we're talking about, it is the legendary warden of Angola, Burl Cain. So, we're going to start off and we're just going to take you through a journey of his life.
Woody: Yeah. And I think it's so important, this research that you put together, a lot of it I didn't know, especially about the early years. And I don't know how they haven't made a movie about him yet, honestly.
Jim: It's got to be coming at some point.
Woody: Y'all, we've done a couple of series before, but not real long ones or anything. But it's going to be several parts to this. But you got to stay tuned because every one of them is going to kick you.
Jim: Yeah. So, to start off, he was born in Pitkin, Louisiana, and I was not familiar with Pitkin.
Woody: Small town in Vernon Parish.
Jim: Vernon Parish. And for those of you that are kind of wondering where Vernon Parish is, that's on the Texas line. It's in the center of the state all the way to the westernmost.
Woody: If you're familiar with Toledo Bend, the largest lake and kind of splits Louisiana. Texas too, but fantastic for fishing, all that. It's real close to that. Kind of a piney woods area, but really, really rural. Shit, there's not even any major highways to get over there. From off the Interstate 49, which runs north and south, splits the state. Shit, it's probably hour and a half, two hours from there.
Jim: Yeah. And he actually described it in an interview one time, and he said, "We didn't even have a stoplight."
Woody: Yeah, well, my hometown still doesn't have a stoplight.
Jim: [laughs] So, you think about that, folks. He went from that to warden of the largest maximum-security prison in the United States which, first of all, goes to show you that it doesn't matter where you're from, it doesn't matter, hard work and really destined. I think he was kind of touched by God to do what he does. He's 80 years old as of today.
Woody: So, he is a couple of years younger than my dad. Actually, maybe one year because my dad was born the week before Peral Harbor, and he was born on July 2nd, 1942.
Jim: And still going.
Woody: Still going, very, very healthy.
Jim: We're going to get into that.
Woody: But he grew up on a farm, y'all, that's where he developed his work ethic. And let me tell you something, this dude can work.
Jim: Let me tell you, if you're 80 years old-- look, if I make 80, I'm considering that a success. When you're 80 and you're still working, that tells you who he is as far as his work ethic is concerned. He grew up on a farm that would play a huge role in his future development. And he grew up in a very religious house.
Woody: Right. Back then, not knocking it, but a lot of people, especially ones that were raised on farms, their parents had to raise them as help. I mean, they worked.
Jim: That's right. You needed help, you had another kid.
Woody: Talking about throwing hay, tending animals and cows and everything else and working the gardens. And hey, there wasn't any PlayStations and cable TV or anything. Hell, they're lucky if they had electricity.
Jim: And you woke up 4:30 in the morning to milk them cows and do all those things.
Woody: You didn't have a problem going to bed at dark with your ass tired.
Jim: You were tired. And his household was very religious, y'all, extremely religious. He attended church, as he described it, every time the doors were open since birth. And he didn't even dance. He wasn't allowed to dance or attend dancing--[crosstalk]
Woody: And I had a lot of people that I grew up with that were the same way. That just wasn't acceptable. People talk about Bible Belt, I can't say Vernon is directly, but I know there's some count-- not counties, parishes over there that are actually dry. They don't sell alcohol. They're Bible Belt. So, down here where south Louisiana, where everything goes, and then you hit that area of the state, it was borderline to the west of Alexandria and all that, but they were really, really country, and the farther north you go, the more country getting. There's a couple of dry parishes in the state, and this area would have been one of them.
Jim: No doubt. At his age, being born in '42, he was kind of hitting those late teenage years when Elvis Presley-
Woody: Absolutely.
Jim: -was big. So, I'd love to sit him down and ask him, "How did you avoid dance when Elvis Presley came on the radio?"
Woody: He didn't have a radio.
Jim: [laughs] Yeah, that's it. That's probably exactly what he would say. "I was out there milking cows. I wasn't worried about the King." Also, Burl Cain never dreamed he would be a prison warden growing up. Of course, being from such a small town, that'd be like most people dreaming they were going to be an astronaut. It just didn't seem possible. As a matter of fact, he remembers vividly fearing Angola, as it was common for his mother to tell him, "If you don't straighten up, you're going to end up in Angola." It was a threat, matter of fact.
Woody: And one thing they did even back then, believe it or not, is most schools, once a year, certain age group of kids, they bus them to Angola. And of course, it was educational for them, and they didn't hold back. They took you down the walks and stuff like that, and they fed you the prison food, and they were like, most girls be crying and shit like that, and they're like, "I ain't never coming to this motherfucker."
Jim: Yeah. It was used as a form of threat. And so, he had another dream. And believe it or not, y'all, he wanted to be a veterinarian.
Woody: Yeah, he wanted to be a vet. And when he graduated from high school, he went to LSU Alexandria campus, y'all, that's a satellite campus, and they have one in Alexandria and one in Shreveport to do just that. But he struggled coming from a small town where the chemistry side of school basically was a fight for him. And they just didn't teach a whole lot beyond the basics, like the element charts and stuff like that at his high school. So, he switched to something that was more prevalent in the areas from and that's agriculture, education. Let me tell you something, vet school is tough. You might as well go and become a doctor. Nowadays, you got to have a four point whatever just to get in, and there's no guarantee you're going to make it. And it's heavy, heavy on sciences.
Jim: A lot of people don't realize LSU has probably the best vet school, if not one of the best in the country.
Woody: So, imagine this, coming from probably my hometown, I graduated we had 28 in my graduating class. Still don't have a red light to this day. I submit to you that his town was smaller. And back then, they didn't test for the kids to pass the test. You just got the books, you know Jim, it was a different type of education. And they were just giving your basics.
But the ag part, growing up on a farm, he already knew tons about it. And pretty much everyone in his family were teachers. So, he settled on basically just working towards a life of teaching after college, which I think is very unique now that I know him.
Jim: Right. You look back on that life and you see how those skills benefited him, even though he wasn't in the world of education when he really got going. So, he graduates from LSU in agriculture education. He starts teaching at a high school, and [chuckles]
Woody: -Angola.
Jim: A podcast 142 years in the making.
Woody: The Complete Story of America's Bloodiest Prison.
Jim: And I'm Jim Chapman.
Woody: And I'm Woody Overton.
Jim: And we're back, Woody Overton.
Woody: Back in the saddle.
Jim: Back in effect.
Woody: Back in effect.
Jim: And we're bringing y'all a hell of a story today. Highly requested.
Woody: Yes. A legend.
Jim: Legend. Someone you have some experience with.
Woody: I do. I have a lot of years of experience with him. Solid dude. They can say whatever they want to. Everybody's going to have their haters or whatever. And certainly, he marches to the beat of a different drummer, but he's a visionary and has affected so many lives.
Jim: Boy, he sure has. And I'll tell you, as far as research, I've probably enjoyed researching this man more than just about anyone I've researched.
Woody: I've read his book years ago when it came out. Of course, I have the family history at Angola and all that, and of course, my personal history with him. Just super, super intelligent, super unique.
Jim: Yeah, very. I think that's a great word to describe him. And of course, if you're hanging by a thread right now trying to figure out who we're talking about, it is the legendary warden of Angola, Burl Cain. So, we're going to start off and we're just going to take you through a journey of his life.
Woody: Yeah. And I think it's so important, this research that you put together, a lot of it I didn't know, especially about the early years. And I don't know how they haven't made a movie about him yet, honestly.
Jim: It's got to be coming at some point.
Woody: Y'all, we've done a couple of series before, but not real long ones or anything. But it's going to be several parts to this. But you got to stay tuned because every one of them is going to kick you.
Jim: Yeah. So, to start off, he was born in Pitkin, Louisiana, and I was not familiar with Pitkin.
Woody: Small town in Vernon Parish.
Jim: Vernon Parish. And for those of you that are kind of wondering where Vernon Parish is, that's on the Texas line. It's in the center of the state all the way to the westernmost.
Woody: If you're familiar with Toledo Bend, the largest lake and kind of splits Louisiana. Texas too, but fantastic for fishing, all that. It's real close to that. Kind of a piney woods area, but really, really rural. Shit, there's not even any major highways to get over there. From off the Interstate 49, which runs north and south, splits the state. Shit, it's probably hour and a half, two hours from there.
Jim: Yeah. And he actually described it in an interview one time, and he said, "We didn't even have a stoplight."
Woody: Yeah, well, my hometown still doesn't have a stoplight.
Jim: [laughs] So, you think about that, folks. He went from that to warden of the largest maximum-security prison in the United States which, first of all, goes to show you that it doesn't matter where you're from, it doesn't matter, hard work and really destined. I think he was kind of touched by God to do what he does. He's 80 years old as of today.
Woody: So, he is a couple of years younger than my dad. Actually, maybe one year because my dad was born the week before Peral Harbor, and he was born on July 2nd, 1942.
Jim: And still going.
Woody: Still going, very, very healthy.
Jim: We're going to get into that.
Woody: But he grew up on a farm, y'all, that's where he developed his work ethic. And let me tell you something, this dude can work.
Jim: Let me tell you, if you're 80 years old-- look, if I make 80, I'm considering that a success. When you're 80 and you're still working, that tells you who he is as far as his work ethic is concerned. He grew up on a farm that would play a huge role in his future development. And he grew up in a very religious house.
Woody: Right. Back then, not knocking it, but a lot of people, especially ones that were raised on farms, their parents had to raise them as help. I mean, they worked.
Jim: That's right. You needed help, you had another kid.
Woody: Talking about throwing hay, tending animals and cows and everything else and working the gardens. And hey, there wasn't any PlayStations and cable TV or anything. Hell, they're lucky if they had electricity.
Jim: And you woke up 4:30 in the morning to milk them cows and do all those things.
Woody: You didn't have a problem going to bed at dark with your ass tired.
Jim: You were tired. And his household was very religious, y'all, extremely religious. He attended church, as he described it, every time the doors were open since birth. And he didn't even dance. He wasn't allowed to dance or attend dancing--[crosstalk]
Woody: And I had a lot of people that I grew up with that were the same way. That just wasn't acceptable. People talk about Bible Belt, I can't say Vernon is directly, but I know there's some count-- not counties, parishes over there that are actually dry. They don't sell alcohol. They're Bible Belt. So, down here where south Louisiana, where everything goes, and then you hit that area of the state, it was borderline to the west of Alexandria and all that, but they were really, really country, and the farther north you go, the more country getting. There's a couple of dry parishes in the state, and this area would have been one of them.
Jim: No doubt. At his age, being born in '42, he was kind of hitting those late teenage years when Elvis Presley-
Woody: Absolutely.
Jim: -was big. So, I'd love to sit him down and ask him, "How did you avoid dance when Elvis Presley came on the radio?"
Woody: He didn't have a radio.
Jim: [laughs] Yeah, that's it. That's probably exactly what he would say. "I was out there milking cows. I wasn't worried about the King." Also, Burl Cain never dreamed he would be a prison warden growing up. Of course, being from such a small town, that'd be like most people dreaming they were going to be an astronaut. It just didn't seem possible. As a matter of fact, he remembers vividly fearing Angola, as it was common for his mother to tell him, "If you don't straighten up, you're going to end up in Angola." It was a threat, matter of fact.
Woody: And one thing they did even back then, believe it or not, is most schools, once a year, certain age group of kids, they bus them to Angola. And of course, it was educational for them, and they didn't hold back. They took you down the walks and stuff like that, and they fed you the prison food, and they were like, most girls be crying and shit like that, and they're like, "I ain't never coming to this motherfucker."
Jim: Yeah. It was used as a form of threat. And so, he had another dream. And believe it or not, y'all, he wanted to be a veterinarian.
Woody: Yeah, he wanted to be a vet. And when he graduated from high school, he went to LSU Alexandria campus, y'all, that's a satellite campus, and they have one in Alexandria and one in Shreveport to do just that. But he struggled coming from a small town where the chemistry side of school basically was a fight for him. And they just didn't teach a whole lot beyond the basics, like the element charts and stuff like that at his high school. So, he switched to something that was more prevalent in the areas from and that's agriculture, education. Let me tell you something, vet school is tough. You might as well go and become a doctor. Nowadays, you got to have a four point whatever just to get in, and there's no guarantee you're going to make it. And it's heavy, heavy on sciences.
Jim: A lot of people don't realize LSU has probably the best vet school, if not one of the best in the country.
Woody: So, imagine this, coming from probably my hometown, I graduated we had 28 in my graduating class. Still don't have a red light to this day. I submit to you that his town was smaller. And back then, they didn't test for the kids to pass the test. You just got the books, you know Jim, it was a different type of education. And they were just giving your basics.
But the ag part, growing up on a farm, he already knew tons about it. And pretty much everyone in his family were teachers. So, he settled on basically just working towards a life of teaching after college, which I think is very unique now that I know him.
Jim: Right. You look back on that life and you see how those skills benefited him, even though he wasn't in the world of education when he really got going. So, he graduates from LSU in agriculture education. He starts teaching at a high school, and [chuckles]
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