Beyond the Game: Mental Health, Pressure, and Purpose with Jay Paterno

What an amazing episode this is about to be with Jay

Paterno. We talk about a lot of things, but here's some

things. His new book Blitz. It's a sports story that has a

ton of parallels to leadership. We're going to talk about

that book. We're going to talk about his because it's

amazing when you hear it. He admits to me at the end who

his favorite Penn State player of all time is I won't

spoil it. You're going to go listen to it. And then we

get the truth behind the 86 Fiesta Bowl Penn State Miami

if you don't know, there is an infamous story out there

that Jerome Brown told us about it's in our 30 30. Jay

tells us the Penn State perspective is at the very end.

I can't wait for you to listen or watch this episode. So

ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to stop. Here is my good

friend, Mr. Jay Paterno.

You're listening to Mick Unplugged hosted by the one and

only Mick Hunt. This is where purpose meets power and

stories spark transformation. Mick takes you beyond the

motivation and into meaning, helping you discover your

because and becoming unstoppable. I'm Rudy Rush and

trust me. You're in the right place. Let's get unplugged.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting

episode of Mick Unplugged and today I have someone who I

looked up to for a very long time. He's a leadership coach

a changemaker and author who's redefining what legacy

really means from the sidelines of Penn State to the

front lines of public service. He's inspiring leaders to

lead with courage, character and conviction. And his new

book, which we're going to get into today is sparking

conversations nationwide and several with my VIP clients.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome the bold, the principal,

the visionary, my guy, Mr. Jay Paterno, Jay, how you doing

today, brother? I'm doing great. How about you, man? I am

honored to be here with you. You know, I'll tell you off

line about the book and how a lot of my clients are looking

at it and reading it and there's a lot of parallels there.

So I'm just honored one to have you on the show and two,

I want to dive into this book. This is about to be a master

class that you're going to give out today. So I hope

everybody's ready, man. But how are you doing, Jay?

I'm doing great. You know, it's a time of year where football

season ends. Like I feel as a guy that loves college football,

I feel lost. Oh my God, we don't have games for like eight

more months. And it was an exciting and unexpected year,

obviously. So yeah, other than I'm doing great. I love it.

And I have to pick your brain. We're going to have a

conversation on football too. Before I get there though,

I love asking my guest about their because that true purpose

that they have, the mission in life that they have, you

know, if I were to ask you what's your why, you're going to

tell me your family, your kids or something like that.

But then when I say why, why is that important? That

sentence usually starts with well because and I care about

that. So Jay, paterno today, man, what is your because?

Well, it depends on what role I'm involved in. Like as a

trustee at Penn State, my because is I look at Penn State

as something that's been here before us and something

that will go on after us. So even though it's a difficult

job in terms of role, it's not a job, although it feels

like it sometimes I want to leave Penn State a better place

and continue to protect the things that made Penn State

unique in that regard. In terms of writing books, I want

to put things down that people can pick up and learn

something from and and get something out of it and speak

to things, especially with blitz, you know, I look at

college football right now and I say, you know, if people

really knew what was going on, there would absolutely be a

movement to try and get this thing under control. I know

people are frustrated. There are other things that have

been involved in. I'm starting to work with some other

trustees of the school to talk about, you know, what

comes next in college football as somebody who wants to

help other people lead. I look at leadership in this

country and I look at it at the highest levels of what is

supposed to look like leadership in this country. What

it is, what we think it is and what it really is are

vastly different. So I want to keep speaking to that because

you know, being a leader is not simply lying and never

admitting you're wrong. Some of the greatest leaders are

people who listen, who admit false and then correct them

and those things have all been lost. So there's a lot of

becausees and wise because of the fact that, you know, I

just have all these things going on and they're and

different roles. Yeah. You were definitely one of if not

the I don't like the term business. The most involved

person that I know. I mean, when you look at the tentacles

that you have and where you reach, man, like you're you're

involved in making impact in a lot of different areas. And

I think that's that's the true definition of you. It's

not just being involved. I don't think Jay Praterno does

anything where he can't make an impact. Is that true? I

well, I try. I mean, sometimes people don't want you to

make an impact and they have ways to freeze out and you

know, but I think the thing is this, it's I am not a

perfectionist by these threats and imagination, but I would

like us to strive towards that as people and help other

people. So when I see things that I there are things I can

see around the corner at some times other people can't

see because of experience or because of people I learn

from. I mean, I've been very fortunate my life to be

around incredible people with with great lessons that I've

picked up and write I make notes all time. And so if I have

the advantage of some information and I can help people or

use that to lead people to get to the right thing, I can't

sit still will not do it. So that's kind of it's a curse in

some ways, but it's also a blessing in some ways. Not

totally agree, totally agree. And so let's talk about

college football. You've been around it your entire life

and it's had a different dynamic than it's ever been

regardless of what people thought back in the day when

when you assumed a thought players are getting paid

will now it's a real thing and there's not enough I don't

want to say governance. There's just not enough of

something that's there to really wrap our hands around

it. I'd love to get your perspective of where college

football is today in particular with the NIL structure.

Well, there is it's not that there's not enough

governance. There is no governance. And part of that is

the NCA and look, I'm the last guy that wants to make

excuses for the NCA, but they keep losing losses. So

they're gun shy and taking a stand on anything. And right

you know, I understand why every time they try and stand

up for something. And so what is what is passing for

governance in college football right now is simply a

reaction to the last ruling by a judge somewhere. The house

settlement versus the House force's NCA settlement is

kind of the law of the land right now in terms of

revenue sharing and NIL things like that. But it's also

going to take us another lawsuit to upset that card. So

we're at a point now where the game is kind of lawless.

You know, players can sign a contract with a school and

then go in the transport will say I'm not going to I'm

going to send somebody else because it gave me more money.

And now the school's forced to sue the player and that's

not a place we want to be. So there needs to be in the

next year or two. And I'm having a conversation as I

mentioned with a lot of the people trying to figure out

where can we get that kind of governance tell my kids

all the time and they get hired to hear me say it. There's

two types of people in the world. There's problem people

and solution people and problem people. Anybody can point

out problems. It's not hard to find problems. See here

it is. And that's what we got right now cost football.

We've got everybody saying it's broken. It's not working.

It's not this. It's not that. Okay. Well, what's your

solution? Well, maybe we should have a commissioner. Nobody's

really coming forward. I think we're at a point now where we

essentially need a constitutional convention that will

involve everybody and just say, you know, these are the

rules we've had and they're all patchwork and we keep

slapping things on it. We got to reimagine this thing and

the players should be in the room. That's the one thing

no one's talking about. You know, we're talking about we've

got a 12 team playoff. Do we want a 16 or 24? What does

anybody think to ask the players? Do you want 16? Cause I

look at a guy like Mendoza the other night took a beating

and under a 16 team playoff. He's got another game to play.

Right. Like that's not the end of it. He would have a

17th game to play. Right. And do the players really want to

play 17 games? You know, I don't know. I mean, they know

one knows. So I mean, there's a lot of things that have

to happen. But cost football definitely need some massive

reform right now. If Jay Paterno were in charge, this is a

huge hypothetical. But what would it look like? Like, could

you pay an overview of what? What could simplify this

mess for people? Well, we have to be honest about what we

are now. And look, I'm an old school guy who loved the

amateur model and playing for dear old state or whatever

it may be. But the reality is is now the big 10 last year

took in 1.1 billion dollars. Just a big 10. This is not and

this is not including March madness. This is not including

all the other stuff. This is 1.1 billion for television

rights and media rights for those schools. So it's not

extra curricular activity anymore for kids that students

it. So we got to be honest about that. You know, when

COVID happened, okay, we kept our players on campus. We

quarantined them when all the other students weren't

here. Why? Because we needed that television check. And

the players and their families started to say, well, wait

a minute. So rightfully so. So I've essentially gone from

an old school guy that has been, you know, I have other

trustees and the board said, man, you've been radicalized.

Yeah, I have because this is reality. So what we need to do

is admit what we are, be come up with some solutions and

some of those things would include collective bargaining

with players because let's be honest. I mean, we can say

they're not employees. They are. I mean, no one likes to hear

that, but how you classify that what that looks like. Give

kids an opportunity to come in and if they want to commit

to your school for four years and get a degree, let them

go down that path. If a guy wants to come in and say, I want

to play college football, but I want the ability to transfer

after a year, say, okay, we'll sign that contract with you.

But at the end of that year, guess what? If we don't think

you're good enough, we can let you go. We talk a lot about

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Because you want us, you wouldn't be able to leave us that

we ought to be able to leave you. And I think you'll see

more parents funnel their kids toward the four year program

model. You would still allow have some mechanisms for

transfers and things like that in that model. So I think

those are some of the things that have to happen. And I think

we've got to redo the calendar. So there, you know, for

example, when the dolphins had fired their coach, I forget

what week it was, maybe in week 14, Mike Tomlin, the Steelers

are going to play off on to try and make the playoffs. If

the dolphins had contacted Mike Tomlin before his season

was over, there would be hell to pay. They would lose draft

picks. They would lose mud. The same, we need to bring that

same kind of idea to college football in terms of the

calendar SB remade so that coaches don't have to jump

during the season.

But we don't need to fire a coach in October because we

got to get somebody signed before signed day. So all this

it's going to take an overarching reorganization of literally

everything soup to nuts.

I totally agree. Another thing that I think we need to look

at is what we call bowl season, right? You know, again,

I'm a huge sports tonight. And the bowls used to matter

even, you know, before the BCS, right? Like back in J's date,

the bull mat, and you guys were in the fiesta bowl all the

time, right? The fiesta bowl of orange bowl, right? But

but they mattered, even if you were not in the fiesta or

orange bowl, it truly mattered. It mattered for the seniors

as like their last game. And then you had the red shirt

freshman that might get some play like it mattered.

Bulls haven't mattered in a very long time. I mean, you have

players that opt out. I feel bad for bowl sponsors. I feel

bad for folks that attend. How do we fix the bowl game

scenario as well?

Well, I don't know that we can at this point because the play

off. And as some fan bases have made it all about, you

know, playoff or bust. The bowl games you've seen that have

good crowds are ones that are within driving distance.

Euston is in the Texas bowl of whatever was in Euston.

And LSU can drive. And, and, you know, and like the

the Penn State Bowl, Penn State fans, we have a ton of

Penn State fans in New York City. So there's a ton of

them there. And they showed up and even though the weather

wasn't great. But I think those are the things that matter.

But I think your point is, is a great one. The bowl games

used to be, there weren't 50 of them. Six and six teams

weren't going to bowl games. My last year at UVA was 1992.

We went seven and four beat Virginia Tech pretty soundly

and didn't get a bowl game because there weren't that many

bowls. Now that team would be playing on New Year's day.

But I mean, so that's kind of where we're at. So, you know,

these things used to be chamber of commerce events. The

Orange Bowl was like, Hey, how do we get like a ridiculous

number of people to come down here and that week those days

between Christmas and New Year's? Well, it's put a bowl game

and the team would come down. They'd be there for a week.

And the fans would come down for four or five. Now it's, you

know, teams are getting their three days before the game.

It's not really a bowl trip anymore to them. So I think, you

know, there's going to be some bowls that survive. But I

think it's got to shake itself out and probably thin that

called the hurdle a little bit. But on the flip side for

the networks, it's, they don't care how many people

in the stands. They're getting three hours of, of, and they

don't care who opts out. They've got three hours of

programming to put on. And the spread of gambling is such

that there are always people going to bet on these things

and the fans are more invested. So I don't think the bowls

will go anywhere. Like you said, they're not, you know,

it's not as exciting as it used to be. No, definitely not.

You know, I personally think you figure out how to

incorporate bowls into the regular season. I mean, maybe

not all of them, right? But you can probably get 15 to 20

bowls that you could do weeks one through four of the

regular season. That way, you still get that competitive

juice. The bowl itself actually matters. I'm not Jay

Paternos. So I don't know how to figure that out. But to

me, that would almost be a good thing. You're going to

guarantee players are going to be there coaches who

are going to be there. Those are the things that are

hit or miss after December 15th, right? December 15th

weapons. And now you got the holiday bowl or the, the

Martal Beach bowl. And it's like, we really don't know if

anybody's going to be able to show up. Yeah. And I think

when if you sit down and redo the whole calendar, I think

some of that will help take care of itself because you

know, you don't, you don't have guys that are in such a

rush to get in the portal. And if the transfer portal

was in February, not January, you wouldn't have so

much pressure to get coaches, jumpings. But we'll see

him. And that's all going to sort itself out.

Now I want to take some time and talk about blitz. But

before we get into the book, I want to get into the

why behind the wider book. So, so what made you say

this book and now? Well, a couple of things. When my

dad died about two, two or three years later, I wrote a

book about him. And then it did really well, really

well, and people said, what are you going to write about

next? And I was like, okay, well, that's a good sign that

people want me to keep writing stuff. At that point, you

know, I would sit around and people would ask what college

football is really like. And I would tell those stories

about recruiting or in the course of a game and what

it's like in the headsets, you know, you ought to

write a book about that. So I started to write it. And

then I realized, you know, some of these recruiting

stories, we got to change names to protect the innocent

and the not so innocent because there's a lot of things

that go on. So I said, you know what? There was a book

called primary colors, which was ostensibly about the

Clinton presidential campaign. And it was written as

fiction. I said, you know what? That's what I'll do. I'll

use that kind of vehicle where I'll take these real

stories and I'll create a nonfiction fiction. And I'll

set it a high estate because I had recruited that

state for 17, 18 years and knew a bunch of coaches

there over the years and got to know them really well.

So I was very familiar with that program and I wanted

to get away from writing about Penn State so that I,

you know, kind of write it and challenge myself to

write about something that wasn't as familiar. So I

wrote a book basically started, it's called hot

seat and started with the coach losing the ball game

and the president of the university shows up at his

hotel suite the morning after the game and says, look,

the trustees are all over me on this. You've got one

year. I mean, I could hold them off for one more year,

but you've got to win or else. It takes you through all

the ethical dilemmas that he faced. Well, at the end

of that, about two, three, two years later, I kept

here, well, what comes next? What comes next? What

comes next for this guy? And then and I all started to

happen. I was consulting on NL with things and all

these other things were happening. And I said, you know,

what I wrote about before to where the game is now

or so dramatically different. I think it's time to

write a different, you know, what's happening now and

essentially sequel that book. So that was kind of the

why and I and I felt like a couple of things. Number one,

I could highlight things like mental health because when

you talk about everything, so everybody's making money,

it's great. More pressure on coaches, more pressure on

players. So that was part of it. And I thought it would be

good to kind of peel back the curtain as to what's going

on a cost. Well, without naming names and let people fans

understand what this thing has become. And so that was

really the why amazing. And you know, one of the things

that I have on my question list for you was the mental

health component. And you know, when I talk about, you

know, my clients and VIPs that we discuss your book and

that they have copies, I start there because mental health

is real. You know, when you talk about from a CEO, CRO, VP

of set, when you talk about that level of people, it is

almost like you're being the head coach, the offensive

coordinated, the defensive coordinator because usually

with these major corporations, you've got a board of

directors. And they're looking at reports and they're

looking at outcomes, which is just like the president of

university or the athletic director, right? Like when's

matter and you've got people making noise. And I thought

how you approached mental health and even some strategies

there were really important. And talk to us about just

that proponent. It doesn't have to be from the book. It's

in the book. But why mental health matters and what

people should be looking? Well, I think the thing about

it is without this, you cannot be successful. I mean,

people you would say to me, you know, you are a coordinate

in your calm place, 100,000 people in the stadium. There's

12 million people watching on TV and you've got 35 seconds

to make a decision. And how do you, you know, how do you

deal with that pressure? And I would say, look, that's

not the pressure. The pressure is, you know, the week up

to it and the worries. And it's year round when you coach.

If you're if you're a football coach and your phone rings

at 12.30 night, it's not the academic advisor telling you

you can graduate. You got 15 guys in the Dean's list. It's

usually, hey, we got a problem with kids and you know, and

there's a difference between the NFL and college and the NFL

they're grown men when they lead your building. They're on

their own. They're responsible for themselves. When you're a

college football coach, whether you want to own that or

not, you have a responsibility to be a figure in their

life. The pressure now for a coach is, I've got to, my phone

is on my hip constantly. And when the phone rings, I've

got the answer because I've got a, this recruit might be

changing their mind or the eight now with NIL and revenue

sharing, you've got agents now that you're talking to when

you recruit a kid where it was just the parents. And you

don't know how reputable that person is. And I've got all

the other things. So all these things can become very

almost drown you essentially in all the stress and

pressures because you never, there's no pause button

because the minute you had paused, somebody else has

called that guy and offered an NIL money. So those are

things I thought was important to talk about. And then

what we didn't talk, what we talked about in the book

as well is everybody thinks of the NIL stuff. It's great

these players make money, but they don't talk about the

mental health of part of, if part of my gig is I've got

a post after a game that I drink this energy drinker, I

drink gator or whatever it may be. And I have a bad game

that I go on a post because I'm on social media. If I

just drew an interception that causes the game, there is

going to be a whole lot of incoming at me. And no

universities really prepared guys for that. They didn't

prepare guys to hear from their family. I know you love

being at school A, but there's more money at school B.

So we're going to yank you at school B. You got to go to

school B because our family needs that extra X amount

dollars. So all those things are important and we don't

talk about it. It's stigmatized still to this day for

especially among men and leaders, men or women. That's

almost admitting a weakness rather than being seen as a

strength.

Yeah, you know, and in the parallel again, the sports

and leadership is so strong and you've had some crazy

cool accolades, you know, like Urban Meyer said it's one

of the best books, you know, in his lifetime that he's

read and Paul Feinbaum says he says it's one of the best

sports books ever, right? How does that make you feel when

you hear not just your peers, but legends endorse the

storytelling component of them?

Well, it makes you feel good about it because I mean,

one of the things when you write you want somebody to

read it and appreciate it. And you know, and you spend

time, it's where I used to sit down and think about, okay,

if we run this guy here and put this guy here and now how

do we get somebody open? I look at writing the same way,

like I've got to put these words and sentences in positions

that make sense and get the reader to move from point A to

point B. So I construct it almost like it's playbook where

now I've got a game player. I've got to get down this

charts when people read it and it resonates. That really,

really means a lot to me. But the same token I'm never

satisfied in terms of like I'll pick up my book every once

a while, read chapter, a chapter, I'm like, oh, why did I

do it? Like it becomes when you're writing it, you're your

most dangerous editor because you constantly, it's great.

I let other people read it first. I let them, you know,

give me feedback and stuff because I'll never, I'll never

stop editing if I'm not careful. And then it never gets

done with with Blitz and with hot seat both. I had a guy

who's written 25, 30 books who I'm friends with. And he

finally said, Jay, it's done. Just forget the damn thing

done. Okay, good God. You know, like it took somebody to

kick me in a rear end to finally go. Okay, here we go.

Again, there's so many parallels. There's so many great

points in this book. You know, you talk a lot about leading

with values, which I think is tremendously important. You

hit even social topics, right? You talk about race, you

talk about income, you talk about a lot of things that are

real world. And again, if you're listening, if you're

watching Blitz, and I'll have, I'll have links in the

show notes in the description. It's a book that no matter

who you are, no matter where you are in life, like this

book is going to talk to you. And again, Jay, I applaud

you for talking about values in this book because I don't

think in society, we talk enough about it. I think now,

you know, we do a lot of what can I do to go viral or what

can I do to make people laugh? And we almost do that at any

cost in society, right? You brought that sense of values

first in the book. I'd love for you to just spend a moment

talking about not just the book, but in life, why values

matter to you? Well, I think I said, I've lived a pretty

interesting life in a lot of different ways. And there's

been some, there was some very, very difficult times when

my dad died and some of the things that happened around

that, where you literally are sitting there saying, how

am I going to get through this? And the only way you get

through adversity is having some values that ground you

and anchor you. The only way you don't lose yourselves

during yourself during times of success, because that's

even more dangerous than adversity. Because once you get

to a certain position, a friend of mine once said to me,

there are two people that rarely hear the truth, pretty women

and rich men, because everybody wants to be around them.

And I know there's probably sexist to say it or whatever.

But the point being is the reality is his success sometimes

gets you to lose those values because you think it

happened simply because you're just so wonderful.

People tell you how great you are and you lose a sense

of what's important and you want to stay where you're at

at any cost. And that's the important thing in this book

is this coach knows that if he doesn't keep winning, he

doesn't keep his job. And that this job is not a, it's

not a birthright, it's not something promised to him.

And there is this constant play between the values that

he has and cutting corners to stay where he wants to stay.

And I think that that comes through and that was one

thing I really wanted to stress is that, you know,

it comes down to something John Adams once said, he said,

you know, no matter how high or low my estimation in the eyes

of the world, my conscience is clear. And that's more

important than anything. And that was one of things my

dad Joe used to tell his whole time. He said, you know,

there's two success and excellence are different.

Success is how the world views you. Excellence is

something internal and to what health consistent you are

and how you stay true to your values. So to me without

values, it's not just sports. I see this in politics and

everything in business. We're at a point now where it's

not about what's right or wrong. It's about how much money

can I make? How can I get mine? And you know what?

Everybody else be damned. Right. Right. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Jay, I know how busy you are and I appreciate

you know, spending some time with us. Before I get you

with my rapid fire top five questions, where, where can

people follow and find all the amazing things that you have

going on? Because again, we talked about the book, we talk

about sports, but you also do coaching, consulting, you do

keynote speaking. And I want to make sure that I connect you

with everybody that that listens and follows the show.

The easiest thing is JV paterno.com. It's J-A-Y, the letter

V paterno.com. That's kind of houses everything. I do a

football TV show, all his different things that I do. And

then on what is Twitter, X, whatever we're calling it now,

I'll probably always call it Twitter today. I'm till the

day I die just because that's how I started on a family

years ago. But it's at J paterno. Instagram is at JV

paterno. So those are the best ways to kind of keep, keep

probably all my contact info is on there. And you can get

the books there. You can get books on Amazon, you know,

wherever you buy books. So there's a lot of different

places you can find what I'm doing and follow me. But I

blog on the website, mostly about college football. But

now that's the offseason, I'll do some other things. And so

that's where you're going to find everything I'm up to.

I love it. And I'm going to tell you this. If you are an

event organizer and you were looking for a dynamic

speaker, reach out to Jay to I promise you he brings it.

He's relevant. He energizes a crowd and there's never a

dull moment in his keynote. So Jay, I'm there for you,

brother. All right. Rapid fire. Five questions. You ready?

I hope. I'll find out whether or whether you're not.

There you go. I did my research, Jay. I don't know if you

know this or not. You have a COVID year of eligibility left.

You have one more. Can you, can you still sling it?

Not not well enough to be in for the name was going to pick

me up off the COVID waiver wire. I don't know. There,

there might be a school or two that needs you after I see

all this movement that's going on. Your favorite Penn State

player of all time is well, if you go all the way back to

when I was five, John Capillary won the Highsman trophy

when I was five years old. And when I was five, I would

write him notes. I couldn't even spell his name. I just

put 222 because that was his number. So my dad would take

these notes. So after one, the Highsman trophy, he signed

a black and white photo. That photo has been in every

office. I've taken it with me every office that I've

worked in. But I mean, if I other than that, like if I

said the best favorite guy ever coach, I don't want to

touch that because somebody will see this. They will call

me. Go, wait a minute. What? I'm chopped liver. You know,

like if I say Michael Robinson, Darryl Clark will call

me. If I say Darryl Clark, Michael Robinson or Zach

Mills or it's Spice Adams will call me and say, wait, I

should be your favorite player. You recruited me out of

Detroit. So I'm sure I'll hear from somebody if I name

one. I heard Mike Rob. First, so we're going with Mike

Robinson purpose. He's perfect. I've been troubled now.

No, no, no, no. What's the bad choice? I mean, you

talking about a guy that was you talking about a great

leader. I mean, he's one of great leaders I've ever

been around. Mike Rob was that guy. And that leads to

this next question. So what's one less than the coaching

that you taught you in leadership outside of coaching?

I think this is a lot of leaders want to impress

everybody with what they know. Okay. And when you coach

is not what you know, it's what they know. And so you

have to constantly understand that everybody learns

differently. Like Mike Robinson processed the game plan

differently than somebody else. And you know, and you

had the ability to reach people where they are in terms

of how you explain things and listen to them because

they'll give you feedback. And I think the other thing

too is the most important thing about coaching is you

got to hold people accountable, including yourself. And

you got to be able to hear the truth and tell the truth

because the minute you don't and I think we underestimate

that young people want to hear the truth anymore. We've

gotten a point where we got to tell them everything they

want so we can keep them in the I.L. world rather than

saying, this is a standard. We know you can meet it. We're

going to help you meet it. You're not there yet. And I

think you're seeing that a guy like Signeti in Indiana

who is not afraid to tell the truth to his players and

they are responding to that. And I think that's those

are things that are coaching are important and leadership

are important. Totally agree. Totally agree. All right.

The greatest game that you've witnessed in college football.

Jeez. Well, I think the festival in 1986 when we beat

Miami for National Championship was probably the greatest

game because it was just and to this day, it still is the

highest Nielsen rating of any college football game in

history to this day by a wide margin because it truly

became this bigger than the sport event and it was not a

Friday night. It was January the second lot of things

went on, but there's been so many so many games other than

that, but that that was that was one that was part of that

was just to this day. And the game was never more than a

one score game. So all the play game. Yeah. One play, one

mistackle and in your list and for both teams. And so I

mean, it was and the intensity, you know, I was out of my

freshman year. I was on a team and the pregame warm up. I

mean, the vitriol. I mean, it was literally. I mean, when

you saw those teams hit each other, it was true dislike.

And I remember during COVID NBC sports network replayed

it. Yeah. And so I made my son watch and his friends

are watching their texting them and they're going, oh my

God, there's like 52 targeting calls. And it's the second

corner. Like none of these hits would be allowed now. Yeah.

I mean, these guys hated each other. It was bad. It was

bad. So this wasn't a setup. I'm actually glad that you

said that because my last question for you was going to

be, I remember the hoopla and Jerome Brown talked about

it, right? The the pregame festivities, the day before

and there was this supposedly a dinner in both teams were

there and maybe Jerome Brown got up and said something

and some folks walked out. Is there a truth in that story?

Absolutely. So what these balls would do is they would do

events and they would bring people in because the sponsors

wanted to add people that want they wanted to be around the

and you would sit at a table with some people and this is a

big steak fry at this place called raw hide was just like a

fake ghost town outside. So it's all country, you know,

kind of a western type thing. And so both teams were

supposed to get up and tell jokes or rap or saying or

whatever. So our guys got up and they made some jokes about

Jimmy Johnson's hair because it didn't move and some other

things and and Jerome Brown later said, well, they said some

things that offend us. Well, they had camo. They got off

the plane and played and talking about we're here for a

war and they had their sweats on. So they all ripped off

their sweats and they had the camo on and Jerome, I'll never

get it was maybe 20 feet in front of me said the Japanese

sit down with the Americans before the teeth before they

bomb or harbor. Hell no, we're at here. They left before

dinner. Okay. And as they're walking out, one of our guys

goes up on the mic and said, I think the Japanese lost

that war and which was a great line. But what the Miami

guys didn't realize was they they then, you know, because

it was media there and they said, we hate country western

we don't want to be there. And the air the festival had

brought in a lot of college aged girls to be at this event

too. Many of which were, you know, very friendly. So I'm

like, okay, you guys want to storm out. We're good. It's

fine. Yeah. More people for us to talk about the finding

is after they said all this stuff about wheat, you know, he

hate country western. But every time we went out to dinner

and had our Penn State football stuff on people would come

over us and say, are you with the team? Yeah, I live here

in Phoenix. I hope you beat the hell out of like they turned

the whole community against them. And that was so it was all

very real. And it just kind of ratchet it up the whole

thing. And that made it. That's one of the reason I think

it was so widely watched was because it did become this

bigger than life. Is there going to be a fight on the field

all these things? It was just this tension. Yeah. Amazing

man. Well, Jay, I'm honored to spend time with you. I can

talk to you and pick your brain forever. But I probably

can't afford your consulting services. So I won't do

that. There's not I'm not sure there's that much brain to

pick at my age. No, man, but just honored that you spent

some time on the show. I'm going to send links to everything

that you have and to show notes to descriptions and on

social. Again, if you're watching or listening, go give

Jay a follow. I'm definitely go get that book. And here's

what I'm going to do, Jay, because I believe in the book

this much. I've already given it to some clients. I'm going

to buy 30 copies and the first 30 people that message me

and I don't care if it's Instagram linked and text me

whatever the word blitz. I'm going to give you a copy of

Jay's book. Sounds good. And I hope they enjoy it. They

definitely better. How about that? They definitely better.

Jay, I appreciate your brother. Thanks, Mick. I really

appreciate it. And for all the viewers and listeners

remember, your becaus is your super power. Go unleash.

That's another powerful conversation on Mick Unplugged.

If this episode moved you and I'm sure it did follow the

show wherever you listen, share it with someone who needs

that spark and leave a review. So more people can find

there because I'm really rush and until next time stay

driven, stay focused and stay unplugged.