Bitcoin Expert REVEALS Why 1 Satoshi Will Be Worth $1.00 | Rajat Soni

This is the time to buy.

Buy when there's blood in the streets, even if it's your own.

There are people out there who sold their Bitcoin at 60K.

They still think that Bitcoin is going to 30K

and I think they're going to be very badly disappointed.

The price continuously has to go up

because as more people figure out what Bitcoin is,

they want to buy it and the only thing that changes,

the supply doesn't change, the demand won't fall.

So what's the factor that we can change?

The price.

The price has to go up over time.

You can have more and more dollars being created

and added to the economy.

More dollars will chase a finite number of Bitcoin forever.

And then from there, it's probably going to flip faster

and faster because two cents per Satoshi

doesn't seem like that big of a deal

compared to one cent per Satoshi.

Whereas from a million dollars per coin

to two million dollars per coin, it seems like a massive deal.

I think at that point, even exchanges can probably start

listing Satoshi's rather than Bitcoin.

Really anybody right now who owns Bitcoin

is a really a doctor.

Like this is 1,000 year gain, right?

This is for generations and generations,

and generations and generations into the future.

Rajat Soni, one of my favorite people to talk to you on here.

I appreciate you coming back on here.

This is, I don't even know, a third or fourth time

you've been on here.

I appreciate all your takes.

As always, I know everyone does.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you, Brendan.

I really appreciate having you invite me to your podcast.

Love it.

We actually met a couple of times.

So we met in Vegas, and we met in,

at the Bitcoin, the Canadian Bitcoin conference.

Yes.

Awesome meeting you in person as well.

Now we do that show with Robin,

Forest, and Jor as well.

So we're connecting everywhere.

Love it.

We are.

You know, kind of spirits.

And that's what Bitcoin is at the end of the day.

It's a lot of like-minded people go in the same direction.

That's the beauty of it.

And I think there's no better time right now

if we're just talking offline.

There's, you know, in the bear markets,

it's so fun because a lot of the people get smoked out.

You kind of see who's swimming naked.

You see who's really gets it.

You see who's really put in the work, really studied.

And so that's kind of, you know,

the ethos for the talk today in a sense of, you know,

keep the main thing the main thing.

And we know where things are headed.

So how should Bitcoiners,

what should they be doing right now?

How should they be acting?

What should they be preparing for?

The DCA, I just came out this past week or two,

someone just had the report of,

if you DCAed the last, you know, what, four or five years,

you would be up 30%.

Even with all these drawdowns and Bitcoin being down 50%

in the all-time high.

So really important thing is to keep in mind.

So when it comes to a lot of that,

when you kind of zoom out and everything you do

in your channel, what's really, you know,

just kind of keeps coming back up for you.

And what's the thing that you're really saying that you,

you think is really important for people to keep it close

I am.

Yeah, I actually have some data on that myself.

So I'm just going to share my screen here, I'll show you.

So if you had started buying Bitcoin at the very, very top

in 2021, that was $69,000 or as a coin.

If you bought $50 a week,

I mean, this applies to any amount.

The percentages are the most important thing here.

The amount that you buy doesn't really matter.

So let's say you bought $50 a week, you kept buying,

you kept buying, you kept buying through the dip,

went from $69,000 all the way to $16,500 in November of 2022.

So at that point, your $50 would be buying

$300,000 Satoshi.

Think about how much $300,000 Satoshi's cost today.

She's.

Right, $300,000 Satoshi's today cost $224.

Whereas at that time, you would be buying it for $50.

So Bitcoin's price went down, or sorry,

Bitcoin's price is only up 7.3%.

But your dollar cost averages would be up 80%.

You would have bought 0.27 Bitcoin.

Like think about that, 27.5 million Satoshi's.

That's crazy, right?

But people usually don't stick to it.

They give up, they stop.

And I think this actually brings up a concept

that I've been thinking about.

It's called, have you read this book called The Dip?

No, I'm not.

By Seth Gilton.

It's like an hour long.

You can probably find the audio book.

It's like an hour long.

It's basically it teaches you how to get through the dip, right?

Let's say with as a content creator,

you see that time where your views spike and then they fall.

And then they spike and then they fall.

Every time they fall, it feels like,

oh, I'm doing something wrong.

And you feel like giving up, right?

It's the same thing with Bitcoin.

We're in a bear market right now.

You see it going down and you feel like giving up because,

oh, it's just going to go lower from here.

What's the point of continuing to,

but this is the dip mastering this dip is the best part,

the best thing that you can do.

This is the most important part.

This is where people build.

This is where the bulls build out.

I consider myself to be a permeable.

No matter what price you buy Bitcoin at,

eventually it'll be a rounding error.

You'll be happy that you bought it because people were telling me,

I was stupid for buying a 50k before telling me,

I was stupid for buying a 30k.

People were telling me I'm stupid for buying at 15,600

because they told me it's going to go to 11k,

but now look at what happened, zoom out and look at what happened.

People would kill to buy Bitcoin at 15,600.

Whereas at that time, I was being called stupid for doing it

because it's going to 11k and it never did.

So stick to accumulating.

Just keep buying, keep buying, keep buying.

Nothing better that you can do.

Focus on your craft.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's so well said.

In your mind, what do you think?

Because you come from your CFA,

you come from the real estate world,

you have all this experience.

What keeps people, or not keep people maybe,

but like you just mentioned a minute ago,

what takes their eye off the prize?

Maybe they've done some work and like,

oh, this is great, but then all of a sudden they lose focus

and they're off on whatever, I don't know,

some Altcoin or they're back in gold.

They're trying to chase things or back into stocks

or what NVIDIA or MagSet have been like,

what is it that, hey, it's right here,

you're on the winning protocol,

just stay there.

I think it's like what you said,

they're looking at gold,

because gold outperformed for the last little while.

I think that's what it is.

They see something that's shinier, temporary.

Shining object, yeah.

And then they lose the plot

because they forget about what they were actually

supposed to be doing.

They're supposed to be accumulating

the scaricest asset in the world.

Growth is always volatile.

It's never going to just be a straight line up.

You're always going to see the price go up,

come down, go up, come down, go up, come down.

It's always going to do that, but over the long term,

it's like going up a hill, right?

There's always going to be those holes,

there's always going to be those declines in those inclines,

but over the long term, you're getting higher and higher.

If you've gone hiking, of course, right?

So when you're climbing up that mountain or that hill,

there's going to be times where you're going downhill

and you're relaxed and you're like,

thank God, I don't have to go uphill anymore.

But then the very next step, you're going uphill again, right?

That's what Bitcoin is.

You have times where the price goes down,

actually feel less, I feel less anxiety.

When Bitcoin's going down, then I do when it's going up.

Yeah, because it makes me think,

like when it's going up, it makes me think,

oh, the people around me aren't going to buy anymore, right?

The only people who are going to be able to buy

one Bitcoin when it's a hundred million dollars of coin

are the companies like Strategy

who are buying a billion dollars worth every single week today.

Yeah, yeah, it's so true.

And there's like this uneasiness

when price is going up almost for years.

Like, oh, you know, I didn't get as much as I wanted.

And you're like, now it's running away from my friends

and family, everything.

It is with weird like dichotomy of Bitcoin,

where as a Bitcoiner, when you root yourself in that protocol,

you win either way at the end of the day.

Like, you're like, okay, well, I'm getting wealthier.

That's all that's great.

But at the same time, you're like, no, you know,

like when you're going to go down, you get to stack more.

You know, it's like, it is wild dichotomy.

But that's the beauty of it.

Having a positive some game instead of a zero sum game.

What are your, what are your some of your thoughts

on just straight sailor?

What's going on with strategy in stretch?

And that's obviously been a big thing right now.

What do you see when you kind of look across the horizon there?

I love it.

He's taking Bitcoin out of the market

and the people who would be getting that Bitcoin

is probably other institutions.

And I'm happier for him to have that Bitcoin.

And let's say, do you remember McDonald's

and Microsoft rejected Bitcoin?

Maybe a year ago.

Right, they could be doing the exact same thing as strategy.

They could have bought Bitcoin, put on their spreadsheet,

maybe created some kind of digital credit product

with Bitcoin as the backing for it.

But they chose not to.

And now strategy is eating their lunch, right?

So I have nothing against what strategy is doing.

Strategy is not, it's not forcing people to sell their Bitcoin.

Sailor actually tells people to buy Bitcoin.

Whereas there are still people who are willing to sell.

I mean, if strategy can buy 20,000 Bitcoin a week

and the price goes sideways, that means

that there are 20,000 Bitcoin a week that are being sold.

So it's not like strategies forcing people

to sell their Bitcoin.

What strategy is doing is it's taking Bitcoin

that's already coming to the market.

It's taking it out of the market.

It's just buying it and putting it into its own vault.

And I see nothing wrong with that.

I think that they're building the foundation for the legacy.

That they're building the foundation

for the Bitcoin financial system,

whereas the legacy financial system

built it on real estate.

So the future is basically the foundation is Bitcoin,

whereas I don't know if you do agree with this,

the legacy financial system,

it went from having gold as its foundation

to having real estate as its foundation.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I would say

it's either real estate or treasuries,

but it's kind of one of the same to a degree almost,

I would say, but yeah, you're right.

I mean, it's not money.

Let's just say that, it used to be gold.

And it was not.

It almost feels like you separate foundations

like two separate systems, right?

The retail financial system is built on real estate,

whereas the institutional financial system

is built on treasuries, like you said.

Yes.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, that's probably, I would agree with that,

because I think it's like the retail crowd,

they're propping up the economy

through the retail in the sense of homes, right?

Like the home market is how they're, yeah, yeah, for sure.

And then like you said, institutional,

the sovereign wealth funds, you know, the country is,

yeah, for sure, it's the treasuries.

Yeah, it's, it's wild.

What are your thoughts on?

It's crazy.

It's crazy, because like, we might have had

this debate a little bit recently too,

but it's, do you think that stretch

and what Sailor's doing?

Do you think that's top of funnel,

like people bringing people to Bitcoin,

eventually like, you know, Bitcoin and self-custody,

you know, per se type of thing?

And I know there's like a demographic element

going on there for sure too, but like, you know,

Max Kaiser just tweeted the other day of,

Jamie Diamond can elaborate Congress all he wants

to try and stop you bearing stable coins, you know,

Clare Deact, you know, that type of stuff,

entering market, but he can't stop

the real yield elephant in the room, stretched.

Yeah, it's, yeah, they're a bank already.

It would be like, I'm not a market

of you bank, but he's, in a way, he is.

He's sucking people away from the banking system.

You know, what, what I noticed,

another you bring that up, something I noticed

is that I post on Instagram about Bitcoin,

most people don't like Bitcoin on Instagram.

But when I post about STRC, post actually do well.

Mm-hmm, because what I'm looking for

is a savings account, they don't want volatility.

Most people don't want volatility, right?

They want stability.

They want their life to be as stable as possible.

They don't want to worry about anything.

They don't want stress.

I think Bitcoiners are just built different.

We, we crave stress.

We crave volatility.

I'm sure you're exactly the same way.

Like, we crave, we crave more volatility in our lives

because I don't want stability.

I don't like it.

It's boring to me.

I don't want, I don't want to buy rent properties

and earn cash flow.

I want growth, right?

Yeah.

And I think that there's, there's a thing

there's a big difference between people on X

and people on Instagram, people on X want growth,

people on Instagram wants stability.

So the STRC posts, if you post on Instagram

or if anyone here posts on Instagram,

STRC posts do really well on Instagram

because like I said, people on Instagram wants stability.

And exactly like what you said with Max Kaiser,

this is top of the funnel.

This is people who, like they don't quite understand

financial, the financial system, they just want a dividend.

They want cash flow.

They want to be able to pay for their expenses

and they want to just live their life.

That's it, they don't care.

They don't care about anything else.

They don't want anything else.

This is perfect because anything else,

let's say the best, next best product, SCHD

gives a 3.8% return.

Money market funds with no volatility

give you like a 3, 4% return.

SCHD will grow a little bit,

but 3.8% versus 11.5%.

There's no competition there.

Yeah, yeah, it's so true.

It makes me think of stablecoins

and that's why there's been such a huge product market fit

and a lot of pusher stablecoins in my mind

just because you have, I mean,

well, the government needs treasuries going out there

so that's a great way to do with stablecoins

but also the no volatility.

Where like now you can get it, you know,

people can use it across the world

where I know a lot of Bitcoiners are like,

hey, why are people using Bitcoin?

Well, again, it's just, it's cultural.

It's only been a short amount of time.

A lot of people in the world still don't know about Bitcoin.

So you have, hey, oh, I got a dollar,

but it's digital, oh great.

Like this makes it, things really easy.

I couldn't get a bank account, right?

So what do your thoughts just sound like, you know,

tether, you know, the stablecoins development there,

clarity act, like kind of all the things we're seeing

in that world, like, do you kind of agree

with that sentiment as well?

Like, what do you see there?

I mean, I think that, I think the world needs

to go to a Bitcoin standard eventually.

I don't, I know that there are some benefits to stablecoins.

They give people who don't have access to dollars,

to give them access to dollars.

They're backed by treasuries.

Stablecoins, stablecoin companies,

tether are probably more collateralized

than traditional banks, which is pretty crazy, right?

Cause traditional banks are massively over leveraged.

So I think, I think the stablecoins are a good thing

for people who need dollars who want to access dollars.

But I think the world needs to go to Bitcoin regardless, right?

If you're using stablecoins, it's still,

it still has the same inflation rate, right?

The number of dollars are still increasing over time.

Your price is still, one dollar is still equal to one dollar.

You still have to pay for dollars, whether it's a stablecoin

or whether it's physical dollars, right?

So either way you're getting screwed over,

but there are countries in the world

where holding dollars is better than holding their own currency.

If you hold dollars, your standard of living

is actually increasing because the dollar is increasing

or your currency is decreasing and purchasing power faster

than the dollar is decreasing and purchasing power.

So let's say, for example, in Nigeria,

people hold on to dollars because they know that

in terms of dollars, the Nira is falling so fast.

So in their case, stablecoins are a good thing,

but I think it all roads lead to Bitcoin, right?

All roads, no matter what it is, I was just,

I actually have this, I have like a, like a way of,

like almost like a concept here.

So all roads lead to Bitcoin where if you think about store value,

you can use multiple assets as a store value,

you can use stocks real estate,

you can use dollars, you can use housing,

but then if you try to escape sanctions,

maybe you can use gold, right?

Maybe you can use real estate within your own country.

You can't use dollars if you're trying to escape sanctions.

Your dollars are always subject to sanctions.

Then if you try to take self-classity,

the only thing that you can use is Bitcoin or precious metals.

You can use precious metals and take self-classity,

but then the final thing where this is where

all roads lead to Bitcoin, it's crossing borders.

Because if you want to cross borders with precious metals,

of course, maybe you can take a watch or something,

but let's say you have a million dollars worth of gold.

How are you going to take that across borders?

How are you going to take a massive gold block with you?

You can't, it's impossible.

So that's what I mean by all roads lead to Bitcoin.

If we want to truly be free, we need to have Bitcoin.

You need to own Bitcoin because if you don't own Bitcoin,

you're always subject to your government's requirements

and their rules and regulations.

You can't get past them.

Yeah, I think that's such an important point that you make.

Again, it's just, yeah, we're recreating fiat

at the stablecoin.

Maybe we kicked the can down the road a little bit.

Like sure, governments are trying to do what they can.

I get it, right?

So all roads definitely need a Bitcoin.

If you want freedom, going back to stretched though really quick.

And even like, I think we might have talked about this a year or two ago

whenever it was one of the first times we sat down,

but just like the only burst strategy in Bitcoin, right?

Like to be people raising other people's money

and using that to buy a property, refinance it, rent it out,

you know, type of thing.

Well, you stretched, that's what sailors doing basically.

He's, you know, lending, you know,

getting other people's money, using it to buy a Bitcoin

and into this whole process.

Like when do you see, you know,

because you have a lot of people that watch your stuff,

you know, follow you, you get a pretty good gauge

of people out there.

So that's why I'm asking you this.

It's, you know, like what do you see with people?

Like, when are people going to figure it out?

Like when are people in the business world,

to see what sailors doing and like the real estate world?

It surprised me that real estate investors

have not picked up on this.

And hey, I'm going to go do this with other people's money.

So I'm in it for nothing.

Then I'm going to cash flow it and put that cash flow

into Bitcoin and just have like this double triple whammy.

It's just wild that people haven't figured this out.

I think it's going to take longer than people expect.

Like I think people aren't even,

they haven't even started looking into this yet, right?

There's still people like there are accounts.

Did you see Boris Johnson posted that

big hands upon this?

How does that last week or whatever?

Yeah, yeah.

17 years, man, you had 17 years to learn about this thing.

And you still think it's a Ponzi scheme.

Really like how, like at this point,

it's not a, like a system paid off.

It's ignorance, right?

Like it's stupid.

Like the guy is stupid.

The fact that he was the former prime minister of the,

the, the UK shows you like, okay, this guy's truly incompetent.

And that's kind of what, what bothers me about this system.

We elect people.

We don't truly know how they think.

We don't know who they are.

You like, let's say, for example,

the US elected Trump.

And I actually used to think that Trump is okay.

Like I didn't think he was a bad guy.

But over time, he made it pretty obvious

that he's not a great person, right?

And the way that he's handling the situation

that the world is going through right now,

it actually feels like the world is going to go

into a World War III, right?

And when somebody like, when somebody like Trump

is making these decisions, when somebody like even,

if we go back to Boris Johnson, his article

about how Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme.

And I, I'm not even trying to attack Trump.

I'm not trying to attack anybody.

But when people like Boris Johnson tell you

Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme after 17 years

of it being available publicly, like how stupid can you be?

You have AI, you can literally search on AI.

But that is, there shows you number one,

there are going to be a lot of people who listen to him,

who just blindly trust what he says.

Oh, yeah, he used to be the former prime minister

of the UK.

And because of that, I need to keep listening to him

because he's smart.

It's authority bias, right?

Those people are stuck.

So number one, either he could be doing it on purpose

where he wants to keep people to not,

but he wants to keep people holding on to pounds

for as long as possible.

Maybe his account is, and maybe he's taken over

I don't mean he's compromised.

Or number two, he's truly as stupid as we think he is.

Yup.

Those options aren't good either way.

Exactly.

It just shows he's a bad actor.

Yeah, right.

Either way, someone not to be trusted at this point.

Yeah, it is, it is, it is, it is really wild

when you kind of look across the bow.

Yeah, I don't know, it is wild.

Sorry, I was going to say, back to our question,

I completely forgot to answer the question.

So people still think it's a Ponzi scheme where I,

I think we're years, we're, we may be decades away.

But, but if people figured out,

let's say for example, like you said,

people start borrowing us their houses to buy Bitcoin.

They could go to a million dollars in a year,

two years, five years.

But I don't know when that's going to happen.

That's the thing we have no idea.

Like I said, I wouldn't be surprised

if it takes another 10 years for Bitcoin to go to a million.

I really wouldn't be.

But then the birth strategy, exactly what you said

with the strategy, the strategy is so far ahead,

the way that STRC is going, they could accelerate that

so quickly, like they could bring that forward by 10 years

by just borrowing against, by creating digital credit,

issuing digital credit and buying Bitcoin with it.

Exactly like what real estate investors did with real estate.

But real estate, keep in mind, it took 50 years

for houses to go from, let's say, 8,000 dollars

a house to 800,000 today.

Yeah, yeah, that's a great point.

Man, it is, it is wow.

What are your thoughts on just like the cycle,

the market right now in general?

Like do you see the, the, the Fed in general,

like them getting after it here and juicing the economy?

Like it feels very opposite of what you would think

would be happening in an election year or midterm year,

I guess, in America, where the president doesn't want

to be a lame duck for the last two years

or a presidency, so you think you'd be juicing this kid.

And maybe that's coming.

You know, there's still a lot of time, six months or nine,

whatever, nine months until the election November.

But, you know, what are your thoughts just on,

like I think about two, maybe this is another thought

to question ask you is, what are your thoughts about

when Bitcoin hits another all time high?

Like when Bitcoin hits even six figures again,

I feel like people are going to be losing their minds

at that point.

Like their euphoria is going to be wild.

Yeah, I actually think, I don't actually,

I don't know if the euphoria is going to be wild

because even at a hundred and twenty six K,

there was barely any euphoria, right?

I don't know if people really, really felt excited.

I think if any, I think it's expected at that time.

Right, right.

I think, I think if it goes back to six figures,

I think people are still going to be bearish

because they're going to be thinking

it's still below its all time high.

It's just the double top, right?

A double top, it's going to come right back down.

I think that's what's going to happen.

Maybe, maybe I'm wrong.

Could, did you ever think of that as a possibility?

All right, real talk for a second.

We all know health insurance is based

the Fiat system of health care.

The biggest debauchery there is.

It's expensive, confusing,

somehow you're still in the paying hundreds of dollars

for a bandaid.

We moved to crowd sharing almost five years

going to the best decision we ever made.

Instead of sending your money to the insurance company's

black hole, you join a like money community

that directly funds each other's medical bills.

Simple, transparent, way cheaper,

and that difference you say,

if you can invest in Bitcoin, it's an amazing win win.

And look, we're part of the Bitcoin community

because we believe in freedom, decentralization.

Crowd health brings that same mindset to healthcare.

You choose your doctor, you paying cash,

and the community's got your back when the big bills hit.

No networks, no middlemen, no bureaucrats trying

to approve your care, just people helping people.

The way it should be, you make decisions about your health.

That's as sovereign as it gets.

So if you're ready to take the orange pill for your health,

this open enrollment, go to join crowd health

to get started for $99 for your first three months

using code brand at join crowd health.com.

That's join crowd health.com.

Code brand and crowd health is not insurance.

Opt out, take your power back.

This is how we win.

Generational wealth doesn't happen by accident.

Bitcoin fixed the money, but it didn't fix the system

and protecting and passing it on.

Bitcoiners, we have to live in two different worlds,

idealism versus pragmatism.

That's where meanwhile comes in.

It's the world's first Bitcoin-denominated

life insurance company, regulating Bermuda

and built entirely by Bitcoiners for Bitcoiners.

With meanwhile, long-term holders can grow

and protect their Bitcoin wealth through tax repolicy loans,

no repayment obligation, no margin call risk

while making inheritance simple and secure.

And entirely in Bitcoin, it's about sovereignty, stewardship,

and building a legacy that lasts centuries.

Because if Bitcoin is forever, your plan should be too.

Learn more, sign up with code 4QPBWC at meanwild.bm.

That's meanwild.bm, code 4QPBWC,

or just sign up, and I'll link in the description below.

I mean, yeah, with Bitcoin, right?

Like everything's on the board, right?

So it's like, yeah, to me, I don't know,

I don't know what it is this time, Richard,

it feels like there's been such,

because of the expectation and because of what happened

and because 10 years ago, the asset wasn't as big,

or the protocol wasn't as big,

so there wasn't as much fanfare, like there's bigger drops,

but now it's way more global.

So you have a lot of people coming in telling us

how dumb we are and how dumb Bitcoiners are

and blah, blah, blah.

So the noise is greater, I think.

So even though the drop hasn't been as much.

So I think a lot of people have been ejected in that sense.

So when I look at it, maybe it's six figures,

maybe it's maybe when it breaks all time high, 127, you know,

or 128, that's when it's like,

what do they critics say at that point?

You know, like, what are you gonna do that?

You know, so that's gonna be interesting to me.

Yeah, I agree with that.

At that point, maybe it'll be,

but I think breaking 100K,

I don't think we're gonna be as much.

Yeah, I think they're just gonna say,

oh, it's a trap.

It's just gonna come right back down,

but I agree with you.

Once it goes to 127, 130, 140, whatever it is.

I mean, who knows?

Maybe we're disappointed again for another cycle.

It just goes to 150 and it comes right back down.

Right?

For all we know, maybe that could happen.

It comes back down to 7DK and it tests that again, right?

And it just pisses off everybody, you know?

It just like kills every longterm holder out there.

And it just, it makes them overconfident

and then it just wrecks them, right?

And then that's definitely possible.

I wouldn't be surprised if that were to happen.

Yeah, and it's like in a unique position,

whereas, you know, you and I,

just speaking for both of us,

like we're content creators in the Bitcoin space.

So it's like, you have to live in this weird world

where we have to, you have to paint the picture

where the future is going and, you know,

not assume the sale, but kind of like talk past the sale, right?

Like we have to, you have to envision that world

and I mean all Bitcoiners.

I'm just, you know, you and I are the ones here.

So it's like, you have to paint this picture

or at least for your family or friends

and people you're talking to and consulting with

or whatever you're doing as a Bitcoiner.

And you have to paint this picture

while at the same time equally humbling ourselves

to know that yeah, could you get cut in half

in over the next six months of the year,

but these are the best times to build and to learn

and kind of reconfigure yourself or like,

hey, where's the same going?

Do I still believe the government's going to print money

at infinitum?

Do I, has the promise of Bitcoin change?

Are the properties changed?

No.

And the government, you know, the former or the latter,

or sorry, the former, yes, they're going to keep printing.

So like if those two things haven't changed,

then we're right still.

Are we not?

I think that's what I like about you the most.

You always focus on the fundamentals.

You always focus on what's important, right?

Nothing has changed about Bitcoin, like you said.

The only thing that's changed, the way that I look at it,

the price is just an indicator of how emotional people are.

Like which way they're thinking at the current moment, right?

When the price is up, people are just thinking

oh, it's going to go up.

When the price is down, people are just thinking

it's going to go down.

It's just on the way up, leverage, people are using leverage

to go up to buy Bitcoin.

On the way down, people are using leverage to short Bitcoin,

right?

And that's it, right?

The fundamentals stay exactly the same.

Every single month, every single week, every single day,

there are more and more hardcore Bitcoiners

who are buying Bitcoin and they're locking it away.

And they're never going to sell it again.

That's why we see higher highs and higher lows over time.

Because over time, fewer and fewer Bitcoin

are available to be bought and more and more people

are willing to buy Bitcoin.

So what you see is more and more buyers

who are willing to buy at, let's say, 60,000.

Today, there's way more people willing to buy at 60K

than there were in 2021.

Like if you think about it in 2021,

Bitcoin was above 60K, or how long was Bitcoin

above 60K for in 2021?

Half an hour.

Yeah, I don't know.

Yeah.

Yeah, for a very short amount of time.

But now, how long did we get below 60K?

It went to 59, 980 or something, 920.

And it was there for like two minutes, right?

So when you think of it...

Even before that too.

Right.

Even the 58K gang was there for like eight months,

you know, even like a couple years ago, right?

So it's, yeah.

That's the thing, right?

When you look at it from that perspective,

when you look at it from the fact that it's all about emotions,

it's all just people selling.

The price is determined by the new spread.

The people who are the last to the market,

either they're buying or they're selling, right?

Yeah.

Most people who are long-term holders

are just going to keep holding, right?

Of course, there are going to be long-term holders who sell

and apparently a lot of long-term holders are selling.

But that emotion, like the crashes are determined

by the short-term buyers,

because they're dumping their market selling.

Whereas the long-term holders, they're selling,

they're selling, but they're selling,

let's say a little bit over time,

a little bit, a little bit, a little bit at a time

to make sure that they get the most money possible.

Whereas the new people to the market, the tourists,

as I call them, they just sell.

They just market sell to whole staff, right?

And they're the ones who determine that the price

is going to go down or it's going to go up

because they market by a billion

or they market sell a billion.

They don't care about anything in between.

Yeah, yeah, that's such a good point.

Yeah, it's fascinating, just like the mindset around it,

because like you said,

yeah, there's been some whale selling.

That's always going to happen to a degree,

but that's what's different with Bitcoin

is obviously there's only 21 million, or 20 million,

we just crossed a 20 million threshold.

So there's only so much to go around.

And to your point, we're at a very low education state

of Bitcoin.

There's very few people in the world have Bitcoin

really at the end of the day,

and that's what as education,

so I guess my question to you is,

what do you, we talked about this a little bit ago,

but the reasons for, I shouldn't say slow adoption,

because it's only been 17 years,

and like gold took hundreds of years,

thousands of years to assert itself.

It's only been 17 years, right?

So I hate saying it's slow adoption,

but that's just our human nature, I guess,

from my human nature, right?

So in your eyes, like you said,

it might take decades, I'm in that camp too.

Like I think it's a demographic shift,

like the old to the young transfer of wealth,

and the younger generation is getting Bitcoin much easier.

Just, you know, what do you think it's pain,

you know, education,

all these things needed coming together,

and that's why it's like,

hey, it's not going to take a decade or two,

a couple of decades.

Is that you kind of concur with that?

I think money is just different, right?

Because let's say, for example, with chat GPT,

I think it took maybe a couple of years

to reach a hundred million users.

Do you know what, do you know that's that, buddy?

Some are out there, yeah, yeah, I was really short.

So with money, I think you need to teach it

to people over generations, right?

They need to see it succeed for generations.

The early adopters are, let's say,

the people who get in within the first generation, right?

So let's say the early adopters right now,

I would say is pretty much any millennial

who owns a Bitcoin.

I would say they're an early adopter, right?

Really anybody right now who owns a Bitcoin

is an early adopter.

Like this is a thousand year game, right?

This is for generations and generations

and generations and generations into the future.

Like your great, great, great, great, great, great, great,

great grandkids aren't even going to know that fiat exists.

But I think that's partly what Satoshi did

with the 110 years, or a hundred and,

what is it, 120 years, 130 years for the total supply to go out?

It was meant to be a multi-generational asset, right?

Like you study Bitcoin, you teach your kids,

then your kids teach their kids,

then their kids teach their kids,

and it just goes so deep, it gets deeply ingrained

in your family and you can't look back.

You can't go back to fiat and you never get screwed

over by fiat again.

Fiat currencies will probably continue to exist.

But let's say, for example, the US dollar,

at some point, the US dollar is going to die.

Well, something will take its place,

because there's always going to be some regime

that wants to take advantage of people.

And they're always going to be people

who are financially illiterate,

who don't understand how many works

who will be taken advantage of.

But your family, if you teach your kids,

your family will never be taken advantage of.

They'll continue to use their Bitcoin

to improve their lifestyles, right?

And I think that's how Bitcoin works.

It takes time, people are early adopters,

but let's say, for example, you're an early adopter

and you don't teach your kids,

then your kids are never going to learn.

They're not going to put in the time, right?

And Bitcoin dies essentially with you,

but I don't think that that's,

I think that Bitcoiners put in the time

to learn about this, they put in so much time

that they need to teach other people.

For example, there are people in my family

who own Bitcoin, who never would have owned Bitcoin

if I never told them about it, right?

And that's because I care about them, I love them, right?

And that's exactly how Bitcoin grows.

It's like a mind virus, but a positive virus, right?

Because you're just trying to help other people.

You're trying to fix other people's finances

because you've gone through it yourself.

You've seen that, oh, I was in debt

and I was able to save because of Bitcoin.

I tried to put money into Fiat and my Fiat kept dying.

I needed to save in Bitcoin

to actually build some kind of meaningful wealth.

And I went through the exact same thing

and I feel like I want to share that with other people.

I don't want other people to go through the pain

that I went through.

I don't want them to have to pay like $20,000, $30,000

in interest when they don't need to.

Yeah, yeah.

It's funny to say that we were talking about this earlier too,

like the most powerful people in the world

will be Bitcoiners in 10 to 20 years from now.

People that hold and educate,

because it goes back to this,

like you said, training the younger generations

and educating them on what it is.

And that's those people,

and you think about how the dynamic,

or the shift that that is,

because you have the cantillionaires

for the people that are running stuff now,

who are, they just use other people's money.

And just like the debauchery that goes on with that,

where you have Bitcoiners, people who had discipline,

courage, conviction, studied, worked,

to attain what they had,

and how that difference of people

then going to the halls of power,

inventing companies or buying companies

and we'll run things.

That's a vastly,

then that gets into the world of,

you don't change Bitcoin, Bitcoin changes you.

And then you start entering that world

of how different things will be.

Yeah, yeah, 100%.

And I think everybody who tries to change Bitcoin,

either they underperform it,

they create their own shitcoin,

they buy into that,

or like if they're trying to change Bitcoin,

and they figure out that they can't,

they can't make it better,

then they change themselves,

they change for the better.

I think that's exactly what happened to me.

For example, before Bitcoin,

I'd always want,

but the first car that I wanted,

I might have mentioned here,

but the first kind that I wanted was a dog challenger,

and I wanted to buy one so badly,

even though I didn't have the income to support it,

I was willing to go into debt to buy one.

It would have been a terrible decision,

to set myself up for a terrible future financially,

but for whatever reason, I got a Honda Civic.

I didn't do it because of Bitcoin,

but I got lucky,

I made the right decision,

I got the Honda Civic.

Now, I have enough money to buy

a challenger cash.

I can probably get like the top end one,

but I don't want to because I'd rather have Bitcoin.

Right.

And I'd rather just drive my Civic.

I'm okay with,

I'd drive a 2009 Honda Civic right now.

It's, it's great.

Right.

That's amazing.

People are complaining about gas.

I mean, of course,

gas has gotten way more expensive.

It's gotten like 60% more expensive,

40% more expensive or something like that,

but my tank is still under $70,

whereas I know other people who are paying $100

for us again, right?

$100 for a tank of gas,

whereas mine is $67, right?

To me, that's great.

I'm happy with that.

I don't, I don't need to impress other people.

I don't care if other people think I'm broke,

whereas before Bitcoin,

I probably would have cared.

Yeah, yeah, so true.

That's when the government,

when the currency is plenty,

then that's all the people are counting, right?

That's all that matters.

It's like, how many dollars do you have in this opposite

in Bitcoin, right?

No one cares.

And you want to show it.

You have to show it.

You want to show it,

that's the measurement of wealth is, you know what?

No one can get their hands on this.

So that's the status of wealth is how many dollars do I have?

Wild, completely upside down.

I think that's what happens when the world is so material though.

Mm-hmm.

Right, we start thinking about the physical more than anything else.

We don't care about relationships.

We don't care about friendships.

We care more about who has more, who has less.

That's it.

Like, we care about transactional things all the time.

I think that's, that becomes the focus.

Yeah, absolutely.

And it's, you know, it all ties into the hamster wheel, right?

The, you know, the fiat because it inflation keeps going on.

So I have to get three jobs.

I divorce my wife and my husband because I, you know,

we're fighting about money and all these things.

I mean, it's just, it's wild.

The downstream effects that broken, shouldn't say broken currencies.

Fiat currencies are designed to steal from you.

So currency, not money.

When you use currency and not money, you destroy your civilization.

It's funny.

We were saying, speaking of civilization, what are your thoughts on it?

Maybe you haven't given a ton of thought about it.

I recently, just recently I started thinking about it a little bit more.

I was listening to like NVK and, uh, and, uh, Frances Poliot, who just had the,

you know, the show they did with Ben and Nathan from, you know,

BTC sessions and they were just talking about all the different, you know,

chains on Bitcoin and like the different stuff, the different layers I should say

and all the different stuff being built.

And it dawned on me kind of of, man, we probably will.

And, you know, 10, 20, 30 years from now, like it'll be Bitcoin,

but you might have government trying to use Bitcoin and have their own,

like you said, their own currency.

So whether it's stable coins or maybe other stuff they're trying to build on Bitcoin,

insubsequent layers, and it's got me thinking like, there's a chance that

those things could happen to your, to your point, like our government's ever

going to really give that up.

And unless we shrink them away and they're not existent.

So it's just fascinating.

Like what might happen here in the future?

And like the education and the stuff that we needed to kind of keep people,

the course corrections of like, whoa, whoa, whoa, no, no, not over there.

So yeah, it's just, I definitely think so.

It's definitely going to happen.

Isn't, so tether is already available on Lightning.

Yeah, I think they just rolled that out recently, didn't they?

Yeah, it's already, it's already on there.

It's available, right?

You can use tether on Lightning.

You can send tether through the Lightning network, which, and that just means

that over time.

So one of the reasons why I think that Lightning is great.

I've had no problems with it, but a lot of people have, they've,

they've thought of flaws.

They say that, oh, it's this and that.

It doesn't work in this way or that way.

But I think over time, this is what I think we talked about this on our last

podcast, creative destruction, essentially what creative destruction is, is

where you're creating things.

And there's destruction because there's a lot of competition.

People are willing to invest and it just leads to a solution faster.

Because what you're doing is you're putting the time, energy, and

effort to think of solutions to more people are thinking of solutions.

And because of that, we're more creative, more creative.

People are dedicating their energy to that solution.

And because of that, there are better solutions that come up because the,

the lower quality solutions are being tested and they fail.

And because of that, they don't last.

So because of that, we come up with better and better solutions to our problems.

And I think that's going to lead to layer three, layer four, layer five,

maybe a better lightning, right, a better liquid.

I don't know how lightning could be better.

I love like lightning.

It works really well for me.

But people always say I'm not going to say that I'm an expert.

So I mean, maybe we'll see a better lightning, right?

Maybe we'll see, like you said, government issued stable coins on layer two's,

layer three's actually heavy even thought of maybe sailor could create a

lightning or like a layer two, layer three, even I would doubt it.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I wouldn't doubt it like 21, a capital with Jack Myler's and sailor.

I would imagine they'll be coming out with stuff in the coming years for sure.

Because they have more liquidity than lightning.

Lightning has like 5,000 Bitcoin.

The tools, the lip capital to do it too.

Yeah, yeah.

For 100%, like that's a great way to generate cash flow too.

Mm hmm.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

I mean, run nodes and the fees, whatever, right?

Like, so yeah, yeah.

I mean, that is super interesting.

Yeah, I think that that's definitely in the future, for sure.

I mean, like again, even AI, I mean, what are your thoughts just and everything

that's going on there too?

It makes me think of that world and all the Asians are running Bitcoin.

Of course, you know, like and you're dumb if you think it's not

and then it's getting rid of jobs.

People are obviously firing people left and right.

So everyone's up in arms.

I just talked to someone, you know, in the last couple of days.

And they were like, man, what do you do with me?

I was taking on all the jobs.

They were like, you know, really concerned.

You know, like what do you know?

That's probably the average person is like, well, what do I do?

Like I'm not going to be able to make money.

And it's like, well, yeah, if you don't get into Bitcoin right now,

then it's going to be much tougher for you.

So again, it goes back to the education part, right?

But what are your thoughts when you just kind of zoom out and take all that in?

I think right now, AI is not a threat.

Because I think AI works for smart people who can use AI to their advantage.

Let's say, for example, okay, actually, I'll give you an example.

So I got charged extra by lift.

I took a ride from the airport to my house and I messaged them.

And it was an AI that I was talking to.

So I was talking to them.

I said, I got charged extra and it couldn't figure out what I'm asking it.

So like it kept, it kept pointing me to a trip that I had from like four months ago.

It kept saying, Oh, are you referring to this trip?

No, I'm not.

I'm referring to my most recent trip and I literally could not get to someone.

I could not get to an agent.

It took, it took like two hours and 45 minutes to get to an agent, right?

And it wasted three hours of my life because these idiots wanted to use AI.

That was completely incompetent, right?

Luckily, luckily, I just gave up and they emailed me and they said, okay, the problem

is solved. It was an agent, but the AI couldn't do it.

Like the AI was completely incompetent.

That's horrible.

So of course, AI is going to take some people's robotics.

It's going to take some people's jobs, but I don't think everybody's job is at risk yet.

Maybe in like 10 years, 10 years, then it's going to get, it's going to get,

I think it's going to get harder and harder.

But like, it's like, it's like AI is just going to get better from here, right?

It's only going to get better.

So I think while it's not as big of a concern right now,

I think it's important to start your own personal brand, right?

And I'm a huge advocate of that.

I'm a huge advocate of creating your own content, creating value for other people,

producing as much value as you can, helping other people.

Because of course, you want to make sure that you can survive through the AI,

like the shutdowns of everything, because let's say your YouTube channel,

AI can't replicate that.

AI can't ask the same questions because you have a personality, you have a history,

you're a real person, whereas AI is just feeding off of whatever it sees on the internet.

AI doesn't feel what we feel.

It can try to replicate it, but it doesn't feel what we feel.

So if you watch an AI video, you would know immediately, oh, this is AI, I can tell this is AI.

Like, how easy is it to tell that somebody posting on X is AI?

I can tell easily and I just mute them.

No matter what, I don't, I don't, no second chances, you're muted.

I don't want to interact with you if you're using AI.

So there are going to be a lot of people like that who are not willing to interact with other people who are using AI.

Everybody else is like, they're just contributing to the dead.

Have you heard of the dead internet theory?

I think so.

Yeah, yeah.

Like only like once though.

Yes, explain it in case someone doesn't know.

It's basically like AI interacting with AI.

It's just there's no real human connection being made.

There's no humans talking to each other.

And I think that's going to fuel something where people don't want to use the internet anymore.

Maybe they want to just interact with people in real life.

Yeah.

And that could be the thing.

Right.

Just it reverses everything.

It's so weird.

It's so weird.

It reverses everything.

It brings us back to where we were.

A decade ago, I'd say.

Right.

We go back to using the internet for what we needed for.

And then we have real life people that we interact with.

Maybe we no longer need to work the kinds of jobs that we work.

Right.

Because like let's say for example, my old job.

I was working in asset management.

To be honest, it might allow to swear.

Yeah, yeah.

To be honest, it was a complete bullshit job.

Like it was garbage.

Right.

Because a computer could have done it easily.

But I was dedicating 40 hours a week doing this job.

Spending an hour each way commuting to work.

It's just an industry.

Right.

They're just trying to build an industry.

That's that's all it is.

Like the government needs people to.

I mean, if anything, the government's going to get hurt more with AI.

Then individuals.

Right.

So I mean, maybe that leads to UBI.

Maybe that just breaks the entire system.

Maybe Fiat just completely crashes.

And we go back to.

All roads lead to Bitcoin.

What you said.

This is one of the last times where.

You'll be able to stack Bitcoin.

But have you seen a computers are actually hiring people now?

Did you see that?

Uh, yeah.

I saw like the hiring them to do like small task or whatever it was, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Take a picture of your hand.

We'll pay you $10 or something like that.

I saw that.

Yeah.

Very interesting.

Man.

That is.

That's like the opposite side of things, right?

Like there are people who are really smart.

Who put in the time to figure out what AI is.

And they're the ones controlling AI.

And they're building their own brands.

Whereas these people are like at the bottom of the bottom.

Where they're not using AI to their advantage.

They're being used to AI's advantage.

Yeah.

It's like the people who are getting taken advantage of by Fiat.

Yes.

Some people use Fiat to their advantage.

Other people use.

Fiat to take advantage of you.

Right.

That.

It's like the opposites.

It's.

It's so funny.

I was just talking to somebody this weekend about it where.

You know, like forever for the last 10 or 20 years,

everyone's like, well, you can't always believe what you see on the internet.

And now we're literally at the point where like no one believes it's on the internet.

So we kind of come full circle.

Like you said, maybe.

So maybe it is like the culmination of like, well,

AI didn't.

Like kill us or like AI, you know, whatever.

It's like we just like took ourselves out of the internet.

Because it was like this portal and like in the matrix.

And we're like, well, we saw that because now the AI are just going to do it for us.

So now we're out.

And we get to like actually do real human things.

Yeah.

It's all just fake now.

Like you never know.

You don't know what's real now.

Literally.

I don't believe anything.

Like it's all fake.

You have to start, which is great because as a big one,

there's like we get that to now that whole world starting to realize that.

Like, oh, I've got to like verify things first.

Oh my gosh.

Like, who would have thought that?

Geez.

Could you imagine community notes didn't exist?

Oh my gosh.

Imagine like, like you know, people say at Grock fact check this.

Because you imagine that didn't exist.

Oh, man, it'd be so much harder.

It's just.

Yeah.

It's.

Yeah, we're.

We're upside down.

Do you.

Do you think that the agents like when you, you know, the whole debate, you know,

recently of like just AI, what they're going to be using to transact?

Do you see that as, you know, Bitcoin, them zapping sats around like,

what do you think when you kind of when you look at that?

I think we're going to be zapping sats around.

I think.

I think very few people are going to be using the base layer.

But I think that's okay.

The reason why I say that's okay is because in the legacy financial system,

people weren't using, let's say people aren't using wire transfers.

They're not taking cash.

The problem is that the entire financial system is centralized.

So if one bank collapses, the entire system collapses.

Right.

So let's say one bank collapses in the US.

There's going to be a ripple to every single bank in the world.

And that's why the Fed needs to print more money and just let's say,

let's say, for example, in the case of Silicon Valley bank,

that's why they came to a resolution so quickly,

because if they didn't, like the entire global financial system would have collapsed.

Right.

Because there were so many companies that had their money with SVB.

I think all of Silicon Valley had their money with SVB.

They had a significant amount of their money with SVB.

So if, if SVB collapses, the entire system collapses,

the good thing with Bitcoin though is that if one entity collapses,

as long as your, let's say your Bitcoin,

as long as it's not fractionally reserved, you're good.

As long as you keep it in your self custody, you're good.

So it's fine if you have, if you take self custody

or if you keep your Bitcoin with a responsible custodian.

Of course, there are risks of the government taking it.

But let's say, for example, your custodian is,

let's say your custodian is almost like a decentralized custodian

where it's a, what's it called, the decentralized,

they're like companies, basically like they're,

they liquidate your Bitcoin if you, if you,

like a smart contract, they just look at your...

Oh, smart contractor.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But then it's like a company that's like a decentralized company.

I forgot what it's called, but if you, if you look into it...

Like a Dow or...

A Dow.

Yeah, a Dow.

Yeah.

Ecentralized autonomous organization.

Yeah.

Yes.

So let's say, for example, you held your Bitcoin with a Dow.

It can't be confiscated.

You can't corrupt its code.

If you ask for your Bitcoin back, you get it right away.

I guarantee you there's going to be something like that.

There's going to be a Dow that's a bank that can't be manipulated.

Right.

You, they can't be manipulated because it adheres to code and nothing else.

It doesn't care about what people say.

So over time, I think that's going to get better and better.

And then because it's decentralized.

So let's say in the legacy system, if one bank collapses the entire system collapses.

In Bitcoin, that doesn't happen.

Because unless you have a fractional reserve banking system built on top of Bitcoin,

then that system can collapse.

But Bitcoin itself can't collapse.

If you, let's say, for example, you keep your Bitcoin on river.

And Bitcoin's price goes down.

Or let's say BlackRock goes bankrupt.

River gives you proof of reserves.

Unless like, let's say the government says we need to take your Bitcoin from river.

That's a problem.

But if you just have your Bitcoin on river, you're good.

Right.

Of course, there are risks.

But you're not as, you're not in as big of a risky position as you would be in the fiat system.

Does that makes, does that make sense?

Yes.

Yeah.

So I think custodians will be there.

But we won't be in the same risky position as we are with fiat with custodians.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There, honestly, there's so many arguments like that with Bitcoin that the,

the precoin or the normie crowd just like the kind of conflates those things.

Like you said, like the, the risks are actually backwards from what they are inverted from what they think they are.

Fascinating.

Like, like quantum, like there's so many things where it's like,

you're literally thinking about this upside down.

You know, like, like, you're worried about Bitcoin, the encrypted, you know,

the hardest network on earth, but you're not worried about centralized chase bank.

Or you're not worried about like, it just is so much of it is just so inverted.

And so like mind bending on how did you, how did you,

it goes back to your, you know, you're saying your theory of like,

it's going to take a while because, like, culturally, the dollars,

everyone's growing up with dollars.

It's just like part of the culture.

We got rap songs about dollars and Benjamin's is what's like,

it's very culturally ingrained in you.

And you just.

Yeah.

Exactly.

It's just, I don't know.

Man.

It's like, it's like you'd rather deal with the, I don't know what the quote is.

I don't remember the quote, but it's basically like you'd rather deal with the enemy that you know,

rather than the one you don't.

Yeah.

Because most people haven't studied.

You know, you don't.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it's like the devil they know is already scamming them.

But they're okay with it because they know the consequences of it.

Yes.

But they don't understand.

So true.

So they don't understand like how bad or how good it can be.

It just, it sounds good to be true.

So like if you really think about it, people are just, they're worried.

They're scared.

And you can't really blame them.

Right.

You can't really blame them for, for being worried.

And to that, I say, you got to study it.

You have to put in the time.

If you don't put in the time, then there's nothing that anybody can do to help you.

Like, I can try to teach it to people.

You can try to teach it to people, but we can't understand it for them.

I think that's the key.

They need to put in the time themselves to understand it.

They need to apply it to their real life.

They need to look at it from different angles.

And that's the only thing they can do.

There's one thing more important than Bitcoin.

The time you have and the people and relationships you build.

In a world full of noise, the real signal is meeting with other Bitcoiners,

IRL, finding Bitcoin only events, connecting face to face, and supporting the circular economy

through Bitcoin friendly merchants around the world.

That's exactly what Club Orange is built for.

Build your circle.

Support Bitcoin only companies.

The only place in a world you can find all that in one spot is the Club Orange app,

an iOS or Android, go to cluborange.org, what used to be the orange pull app,

or scan the code here.

Everything you were learning in this episode is completely moot and does not matter.

If you hold Bitcoin and are still leaving it on an exchange or sharing keys

and you're KYC information with a third party, this is your wake up call now.

You are only self-sovereign.

If you alone hold the keys to your wealth,

100% self-custody sounds daunting at first.

Believe me, I lost two years of massive gains over a decade ago

because I was worried about taking a few minutes to talk to understand self-custody.

That's exactly why you need to talk to my friends Tony has back in his team at the Bitcoin way.

We just interviewed Tony recently, has over 80,000 views, an overwhelming response.

People love his story and the simplicity he shares of how easy it is to custody

and take ownership of the greatest money we've ever seen.

They'll train you to do it right the first time.

Head on over to the bitcoinway.com slash Brandon to schedule a three 30 minute consultation today.

Their five star wave service is exactly what you need.

Quit sitting on your hands like I did and get started today.

Again, that's the bitcoinway.com slash B-R-A-N-D-O-N.

Yeah, and you can't, I've been saying this a lot lately too.

I mean, you can't make a horse drink, right?

Like you just said, you can take him to the water but you can't make them do it.

And it's just such a mindset game where I such like an information war mindset.

And it's like the people's brain shut off to protect them from doing work.

Like I heard one negative thing.

And then cool, I get to shut my brain off.

Like I knew it was too good to be true.

But then like you're hit with like a thousand pieces of like good information about it.

And it's still like, I don't know.

It's like, wait, what?

It just is as wild.

Yeah.

What are your what are your thoughts about just like I would love for you to kind of explain.

If you're talking about this in beginning a little bit too, like why Bitcoin is designed to go up forever?

You're just like the properties of Bitcoin that make it so it's literally designed to go up forever, you know, NGU.

And like this is going to keep eating the system.

And maybe even the monetary premium being sucked out of all these other asset classes, which ironically make all those assets more affordable.

You know, you're worried about gold and silver or real estate or being housing being affordable.

Guess what? Bitcoin is the only thing that's going to make these things more affordable.

Just wow.

So I love for you to kind of like extrapolate on this and like why this is such a big thing that people just kind of gloss over.

Yeah, of course, so the way that I look at it, it's like I mentioned before, all roads lead to Bitcoin.

You have multiple assets that can be a store of value.

So you can use stocks, real estate bonds, gold, whatever Bitcoin.

But out of all those assets, the one that performs the best is Bitcoin.

So just just out of that pool, the people who need a store of value asset.

It's a no brainer to go to Bitcoin, but they just haven't figured it out yet.

Like at some point, the people who have real estate, either they're going to sell their real estate or they're going to borrow against their houses to buy Bitcoin.

Right now, let's say for example, let's say you can get a million dollar loan against your house, you can buy like 15 Bitcoin, 12 Bitcoin, something like that.

At some point, you're not going to be able to because there isn't going to be that much Bitcoin available for you to buy, right?

Just the price has to go up. The price continuously has to go up because as more people figure out what Bitcoin is, they want to buy it.

And the only thing that changes, the supply doesn't change.

The demand can't demand won't fall.

So what what's the factor that we can change the price?

The price has to go up.

Over time, you can have more and more dollars being created and added to the economy.

More dollars will chase Bitcoin, a finite number of Bitcoin forever.

But like the comparison between, let's say for example, houses, dollars and Bitcoin is more dollars will chase a relatively finite number of houses over time, but fewer Bitcoin will chase a relatively infinite number of houses over time.

Because even if the supply of housing increases by 1% per year, that's infinite compared to Bitcoin.

So over time, you have a smaller and smaller pool of Bitcoin chasing a finite number of houses.

And to me, that's a little scary because I mean, at the end of the day, it's a good thing.

But I want to use Bitcoin as possible.

I think everybody's going to figure this out.

And the way that I look at it, I get scared.

I see Bitcoin going up and I get anxious.

I think I want to buy more.

I want to own more.

I want to like, I know my family and friends who haven't touched Bitcoin yet.

They don't own any.

I'm scared for them.

I'm worried that they won't be able to get any.

Like my niece and nephew, of course, they don't have any Bitcoin yet.

What's the price going to be at the time when they're, let's say 20 years old.

It's going to cost probably $10 million or more.

In 20 years, right?

It's going to go up forever and the current prices are temporary.

The price won't be sustainable.

It can't be sustained at these levels for a very long time.

At some point, it's going to have to go up.

And I think that's, I think that's the key here.

Keep stacking.

Keep buying.

Focus on what you can control and time will take care of the rest.

That's the timing part is the price of Bitcoin over time.

The price of Bitcoin has to go up.

Yes.

That's a great point.

Time converts more than reason.

Time does the heavy lifting.

All those things.

And like we're just worse than patient, you know, like we're humans.

We're impatient.

So true.

But it's a good thing at the end of the day.

Like you said, it's a good thing.

Because then all these people can start coming in as society starts healing over time.

And Bitcoin starts keeps expanding.

More people can get in into the system, which is amazing.

I think the higher prices, I think the higher prices, the best marketing for Bitcoin.

Like over time, people like we may be thinking like, you know,

the price is the least important thing about Bitcoin.

But if you think about the real re-kill investors mindset, that's what they think, right?

They think the price is going up and you can get in.

They don't think like the older price is going down.

I'm getting a better deal.

They don't care about that, right?

They think the price is going up.

I need to get in before it goes higher.

You know, I haven't really thought of this before until now.

So I'm curious.

And you may have not thought about necessarily either, but like what is your off the cuff?

Like thought on like unit count bias where like obviously, you know,

I feel like we're in this weird territory where people have a unit count bias.

I'm like, oh, it's way too much.

I can't get one Bitcoin.

But like at what point do people?

It's like, it's got to break at some point where people realize like, oh, it's at a hundred.

Oh, is that 200?

Oh, it's at 400?

Wait, 500?

Like at some point, there's got to be this saturation point where people kind of realize like,

why doesn't matter?

Like I can just get this, you know, like at some point, that's got to like break.

That just kind of snapped in society.

Doesn't not?

100%.

It definitely does.

I think that's going to happen at one cent per Satoshi.

So a million dollars per coin.

So a million.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I get that point.

People are going to see, oh, a penny.

I have, I have five cents.

I can buy five Satoshis.

Mm hmm.

And then, oh, I have a dollar.

I can buy a hundred Satoshis.

And then from there, it's probably going to flip faster and faster because two cents per

Satoshi doesn't seem like that big of a deal compared to one cent per Satoshi.

Whereas from a million dollars per coin to two million dollars per coin, it seems like

a massive deal.

Right.

So I think at that point, I think at that point, even exchanges can probably start listing Satoshis

rather than Bitcoin.

That's interesting too.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's really interesting because I know there's been that fight over the last few years

too of like, well, we need to change the name.

You account bias and stuff like that.

But I don't, I don't think we need to change the lexicon.

I think like you said, it just kind of breaks over time.

Like you just hit a saturation point and people just, it just breaks itself.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's such a great point.

What are your thoughts on just like a leverage?

Like obviously you and I come from the real estate world.

This is like a hot topic.

Obviously over the last year, well, especially over the last year or so because of the

different companies that are offering stuff, you know, taking loans out, using lines of

credit with Bitcoin, the housing, you can use your house to happen to equity and all these

different things.

And so obviously not financial advice any of this, but you know, and to each their own.

But when you see across that system, what do you, what do you see?

Are you forward against it?

What kind of guardrails do you talk about when you, when you look into the leverage with

Bitcoin world?

Yeah.

I think that's a really great question.

I think borrowing against Bitcoin is smart because then you don't have to sell your Bitcoin,

of course.

But then there is some risk involved.

I had a lot of clients who booked meetings with me.

They booked one-on-one meetings with me to ask me about like, oh, this is happening with

Bitcoin.

This is happening with Bitcoin or like there is, there's quite a few clients who have been

booking meetings with me asking me how to manage their loans, how to make sure that they don't

get liquidated.

So actually, I made a spreadsheet and can I share it?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Okay.

So I made a spreadsheet here.

Just explain my thoughts on how to manage your loans.

I actually like the idea of borrowing as Bitcoin.

I used to hate it because I didn't look at it from this perspective.

So I'll give you an example here.

We have one Bitcoin and let's say you take on a loan for $10,000.

So you take on a loan for $10,000, one Bitcoin worth $74,300.

Your LTV, which is your loan to value, is 13.46%.

So your loan to value is basically the loan, the $10,000 divided by the collateral, 74,000.

So your loan to value is 13.46%, 10,000 divided by 74,000.

What this would mean is if you're liquidation, so let's say with lead in, I use lead in.

So let's say with lead in, your liquidation percentage.

So if your LTV goes to 80%, you're going to get liquidated.

At 70%, you get a margin call.

So what that means is if Bitcoin's price falls, you're going to get a margin call,

then you're going to get liquidated.

So in this case, if Bitcoin's price goes to like $14,000 or something, is that what it is?

Yeah, around 14, maybe 14,500.

So 14,500, between 14,500 and 14,000, you'll get a margin call where they'll tell you,

add more collateral or we're going to liquidate you.

But then, after that point, Bitcoin's price needs to go to 80% LTV for you to get liquidated.

So I have the price here.

So Bitcoin price at liquidation would be $12,500.

So if you had a loan of $10,000 against your one Bitcoin, you have one Bitcoin with $74,400,

it would have to drop to 12,500 for you to get liquidated.

So based on this, what you can do is you can make your loan more secure or you could take on more leverage.

However you want to do it.

So let's say, for example, if you think that Bitcoin is going to fall to at the lowest, 30,000,

what you could do is you could take on enough of a loan to protect you until Bitcoin drops to, let's say, 25,000.

So you think it's going to fall as low as 30, so you protect yourself until 25.

So I'm not even saying to do this. I'm not saying that this is the best way to go.

I'm saying that this is how people think.

So let's say, for example, if you borrowed 20,000 against your Bitcoin, you borrowed 20,000 against your one Bitcoin.

Bitcoin has to fall to 25K for you to get liquidated.

So what that means is that if you think Bitcoin is going to fall to a minimum of 30K, you're protected.

You may want to give yourself a little bit more room there.

Let's say, for example, you only borrow 15,000, meaning that Bitcoin has to fall to 18,750.

You can see that here.

But this is the way that I look at it.

So I think I think managing your loans is key so that you don't have your liquid, your Bitcoin sold, you don't have it liquidated.

But the long term potential here is this. So I'll show you.

Bitcoin's price is going to go up over time.

So let's say Bitcoin's price rises at 25% per year.

You think that's reasonable?

Oh, yeah.

25% per year.

So it goes from 74 for today till 690, 2000 in 10 years.

25% per year.

So your Bitcoin collateral would go from 74,400 to 692,000 per coin because you have one Bitcoin.

But your loan, of course, will also increase your APR.

Your interest rate on the loan is 11.9% in our example.

So your loan would have gone from 15,000 to 46,000.

But you can see here your LTV would have dropped.

And this is the key here.

If your LTV drops, your loan is more secure.

That's the key.

As long as your LTV is low, in this case, your LTV will automatically drop.

As long as you don't get liquidated, you could potentially take on a new loan against your Bitcoin.

Because your lender probably wants you to get to 50%, right?

They want you to get to a 50% LTV.

So in a way, you have this 46,000 or a loan already against your Bitcoin.

But you can also borrow another 300,000 because that's just the lender wants you to get to 50%.

And this is how the real estate market works.

So the real estate market, the way that it works is your lender wants you to keep an 80% LTV.

So they'll give you a home equity line of credit.

They'll give you a second mortgage.

And they'll keep lending you more and more because they make more interest.

That's essentially their benefit here.

If Bitcoin keeps going up, you keep borrowing more, you keep paying them more interest.

They'll keep giving you more fiat.

As long as you manage your loan, you'll keep your Bitcoin forever.

Right?

In this case, you borrow 15K against 75,000 or Bitcoin.

Your LTV is 20%.

You're protected until Bitcoin drops to 18,750.

So use this to your advantage.

And I think that this is actually something that clears up a lot of people's doubts.

A lot of people are worried.

They think that, oh, if I borrow against my Bitcoin, it's a terrible decision.

Everybody gets liquidated.

But no, if you manage your loans properly, you're good.

That's the key here.

Just manage your loans properly so you don't get liquidated.

Yeah.

And the real icing on the cake is if you can somehow find,

if you take that fiat out and you go invest in another asset.

And this is kind of like the real estate thing.

If you're buying something that out does that interest rate of the loan or something like that.

So that's kind of like the icing on the cake instead of just like the rolling at theory of just like,

okay, I'm going to spend the fiat and I'm just rolling it, you know, year of year using a small loan to value.

So yeah, it's just, it's fascinating, absolutely fascinating.

I love this stuff because that's again, this is the world that we came from.

So I love this kind of stuff.

And I will say that again, I know you are too, but like massive proponents of self custody.

That's that's the biggest thing by far.

So like the average person, you know, everyone should be doing that regardless.

If you venture into this world, like you said, Rijat, it's just, you know, be careful,

manage it appropriately.

You know, don't bite off more than you can chew, right?

So stuff like that.

And this is also a good thing too for unrealized gains.

If we enter a world where there's unrealized gains.

This is a world where you're going to see a lot of people taking out debt on every asset they have.

Bitcoin included probably at that point, which hopefully never get to that.

But you know, that is one thing where people say, well, what happens is unrealized gains.

Well, you might be moving countries at that point.

But also this is a way where you start taking out debt on your assets and say,

I don't have any gains.

Sorry.

Yeah.

Sorry.

If you're forced to pay the tax, you can borrow against your asset to pay the tax that we don't miss all the asset.

Yep.

So these are very, very real things that, you know, should just be learned about known about, you know, options options at the end of the day.

Yes, that people have.

So.

Yeah.

What's the last one, last thing I have for you is endgame.

So for Bitcoin, like what has your, has your prognosis on the Bitcoin endgame?

Like what does it have to account for?

Is that change at all?

It could be, you know, 10, 20, 30 years from now, like we said, or a thousand years from now.

Of the all 900 trillion dollars in assets in your mind, what does Bitcoin have to account for?

Is it the Jeff booth?

It's all 900 trillion.

It's a protocol outside the system that we're eventually going to go to straight up.

Or is it something, you know, underneath that in your mind, like, where does the train eventually stop?

I think that.

I don't know if it'll, I think 900 trillion will be like 900 trillion will be low at some point.

I guess something will be five quadrillion to be 10 quadrillion.

For sure.

It'll be 100 quadrillion.

But over time, like the way that I look at it, Bitcoin is going to be a bigger and bigger percentage.

I think housing will probably still have a percentage in it, but that percentage is going to get smaller and smaller.

Right.

So let's say, for example, there are rare properties that.

I mean, in like as an aggregate real estate can't beat Bitcoin, but there are properties that can.

Right.

So those properties will probably continue to appreciate.

So what would I think what you'll see is that the amount of wealth that's in Bitcoin as a percentage of the total global financial system will keep increasing.

The percentage will go from let's say it's what is it right now like 0.2% to.

0.5% 1% 2% 3% like what you'll see is.

It's not like real estate is going to go down because fiat is going to always go up right that 100 that one quadrillion is going to go to.

Like right now, the total amount of wealth in the world is one quadrillion.

So 1000 trillion.

At some point that'll be two quadrillion to be quadrillion for quadrillion, but like I said, Bitcoin is going to take up a bigger and bigger chunk of it.

Until at some point it's let's say 50% of it right maybe a 50% maybe let's say for example it goes to 100 quadrillion real estate is still going to go up.

Real estate will maybe take a certain percentage of it, but let's say Bitcoin at that point is 50 quadrillion.

Way bigger than what it is today as a percentage and as a dollar value.

So what it'll do is it'll outperform everything else in that term.

Do you think that there becomes some type of like saturation point or breaking point for this because to me like the dollar like Bretton Woods right they have this like well, you know, here, the dollar is going to be the thing.

Some people say like, oh, there's not a secret society in backroom deals going on the world.

Well, here Bretton Wood conference. There you go guys.

There's these things going on the time and they decided, hey, this is going to be the role of reserve currency.

This is what we're going to do.

So what what has to change in your mic is at some point.

You would you would imagine that a lot of the world or someone or the big player at the time for the US or whatever.

You eventually get to a point where people are just maybe as the people and hopefully it is that way where people just denominating life in Bitcoin.

So at that point, if you're because like we look at the Jesse Myers chart of every Bitcoin is kind of seen that was like well, it's denominated in dollars.

Well, at some point I would imagine that's denominated in in the in the measuring stick Bitcoin that thing that never changes.

Any any thoughts on when that could be because that that to me is like the real question.

I guess I probably should ask that first place.

Let me keep in mind.

So I went to Turkey last last week.

And in Turkey, there were so I don't know if you know about their inflation rate.

Apparently last year was like 80%.

And I was a official number.

So the real number was even bigger.

I was actually talking to one of my tour guides. So we went on these free walking tours highly recommended if you go anywhere.

Search for free walking tour.

And you'll find like two, three hour walking tours will take you through like certain area. So I was talking to my tour guide and I was asking him.

Hey, you understand the inflation rate. Have you heard of Bitcoin?

And I got him to start reading the Bitcoin standard. He sent me a message.

He actually like he he he already knew what Bitcoin was. He didn't really know he didn't really understand it at a deep level, but now he's reading about it.

So maybe he'll be like, I know those people.

But keep in mind that in Turkey.

It's not like everybody's talking about Bitcoin, right? It's not like everybody's figured it out.

In Turkey, there's there's also you'll you also notice if you go there.

That prices are listed in.

But if you ask people if they want euros, they'll take them. No problem.

Yeah, no problem. They have no issue taking euros, right?

Because they know that the euro is going to hold its value better than the lira.

The lira has like 80 90% inflation. The euro has 10% right? So to them 10% seems great.

They buy gold with their with their lira. They just get rid of their liras quickly as they can. That's that's the main thing.

They don't want to get rid of it because they don't want to hold lira.

So they get gold. They get scarce assets. That's that's the way it goes.

But I don't know if I don't know if fiat will disappear as a whole.

I think it'll slowly die.

And I think people will move away from it.

But I don't know how long that'll take. I think that could take decades.

But at some point I do I do envision the world where we're paying with Satoshi's.

We go to Walmart or actually maybe Walmart doesn't even exist.

Maybe it's all mom and pop shop. Right. Maybe it's all it's all businesses owned by the people.

And that's exactly what it was in Turkey right.

A lot of the businesses there were businesses owned by people individuals.

I don't know what that what what caused that.

But you barely see.

You don't see as many chains from my experience at least.

Maybe I didn't notice them, but you don't see as many chains.

A lot of them are family owned businesses.

And let's say you go to these family owned businesses.

You pay them with your Satoshi's. You pay them however you however they want to be paid.

Let's say they want Euros. You pay them with Euros. They want US dollars.

You pay them with dollars. But maybe they give you a discount if you pay in Satoshi's.

That's that's the world that I want to see. That'd be amazing.

Incredible. It's a great way to wrap too.

Amazing stuff as always Rajat.

Anything anything you want to touch we might might not have and where could people find you.

Sometimes I feel I feel like I'm going crazy just thinking about these things.

It's so happy to. It's come on these podcasts and pop to people about it.

I have my YouTube channel as well of course.

I have my ex.

People like booking meetings with me.

You can find the link in all my videos. You'll just find it in the description.

I highly recommend it. I have my private community.

You can join there.

But sometimes I feel like I'm going crazy just thinking these thoughts out loud.

I like coming on your podcast because I feel like you direct the conversation in the way that my brain is running.

I don't know what it is. I feel like I get these thoughts out.

I get these thoughts out that I usually don't. I usually can't.

And I feel like the key here is we talked about the dip.

Right. We talked about just getting through the dip.

As somebody who's been in Bitcoin for about four years.

I haven't gone through like this is the first bear market that I'm going through.

So to me it's still scary. It's it worries me. I still think what if Bitcoin goes to zero?

What if it goes to I know it won't.

But I still think about it.

Exactly. Right.

And I think that to the people listening to this, if you feel that way, don't worry.

It's normal. It's normal to feel that way.

Just don't let your emotions make you sell your Bitcoin.

Right. Don't let your emotions control your life. Don't let your emotions control your financial decisions.

Make sure that you make your financial decisions based on logic.

Think about.

Think about what you're doing before you sell your Bitcoin because there are people out there who sold their Bitcoin at 60K.

They still think that Bitcoin is going to 30K and I think they're going to be very badly disappointed.

Don't make emotional decisions. If anything, at the times when I feel the most worried.

I should be buying and I usually end up buying now because I know I've experienced it.

I've gone through it enough times. I've gone through enough dips to know that if I'm feeling the scared.

Other people are definitely feeling way more scared than me because they haven't studied it.

So to me, this is the time to buy. Buy when there's blood in the streets, even if it's your own.

It's so incredibly true. Reconvict yourself. Like you said, dive back into it.

That's just an incredible way to wrap this.

I just appreciate you so much, Rajat, always for coming on. Always a joy to have you.

Absolutely, man. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it, Brendan.

If you like that episode, then you're going to love the playlist we put together for you with our most recent podcast with the top Bitcoiners.

Sound money, Liberty Advocates. In the world, go check those out here. We'll see you inside. You're going to love them.