Blind Faith

0:00Hi, friends, this is Janet Partial. Thanks so much for downloading the broadcast, and I hope what you hear will encourage, edify, equip, and lighten, and get you out there into the marketplace of ideas. But before you go, let me tell you about this month's truth tool. It's written by Robert Morgan, who is one of my very favorite authors. Through the story of Zachariah and Elizabeth, we are reminded that God remembers us and keeps his promises. And what Robert does is he does a deep dive in just scripture around the birth of the Messiah and helps us discover the glorious, victorious life that awaits us in Christ. And in this book, he reminds us that God has appointed you for this very special time, that God works grace into your grief, that God wants to use you, whatever your age, that God can eradicate fear from your heart, and that God desires your help in raising up a new generation to serve him. It is in a word, a fabulous book. And I hope you want to get a copy. We're listening to supported radio, and it's my way of saying thank you when you give a financial gift of any amount to in the market. So to get your copy of God hasn't forgotten you, just call 877 Janet 58.

1:01That's 877 Janet 58. Give a gift of any amount and we'll send you a copy. Or you can do it online in the market with Janet Partial.org, scroll to the bottom of the page. There's the cover of the book, make your donation, and I'll send you a copy of God hasn't forgotten you. You also might want to perfectly consider becoming a partial partner. Those are our dear friends who give every single month at a level of their own choosing. You will always get the truth tool for the month. But in addition to that, you will get a weekly newsletter comprised of my writing and an audio piece just for my partial partners. So again, thank you in advance for financially supporting in the market with Janet Partial because it keeps us moving forward. 877 Janet 58 or online in the market with Janet Partial.org. Now please, enjoy the broadcast. Here are some of these headlines we're watching. The conference was over. The president wanted to plan on it. So the Americans worshiping government over God. It's really rare safety ruled by a nation. 17 years of Palestinians in the Israeli's majority. I bet it's time for the whole Shaxe. We hear it. It's time for the whole Shaxe.

2:14Hi, friends. Welcome to In the Market with Janet Partial. So glad we're going to spend the hour together. Well, here's what I know. Just because it's part of the human experience. Our mailing address is East of Eden. This is not as good as it gets. And so I'm going to guess that the people listening right now to this broadcast all across the country, whether you're listening live or you're downloading this eventually as a podcast, you are finding yourself as a follower of price in one of three positions. You are either about to walk into the refiner's fire or you join me today in the middle of the refiner's fire or you've just come out of the refiner's fire, a changed person. Never wanting to go back again to who you were before the Lord really conformed to transformed you through his refining fire. And that's the rhythm of life, isn't it? Until finally, we pass from this life to the next where real life begins. This is not as good as it gets. Remember that is the headline for today, no matter what you're dealing with. But we're going to talk about something and don't leave the room when I say it, okay? We're going to talk about suffering. Well, come back.

3:14Listen, it's not a matter of if it's a matter of when those fiery trials come. We're all going to suffer. This is East of Eden. This is a sinsick fallen world and our constant battle is against the world, the flesh and the devil. And that means there's going to be trials and tears and tribulation. And so the question then is, and I know it's an oxymoronic kind of an idea because the world certainly doesn't talk like this, but believers do, if they're immersed in the word particularly, how do we suffer well? Well and suffering. How do you put those two words together in the same sentence or the same thought? We live in a post-modern world, a sinsate culture that all you do is avoid pain at any cost. You drink it, you swallow it, you look at it, you exercise it away, you practice immorality, thinking that will take it away. The reality is you and I understand that suffering is a part of this experience. Now it raises a penopley of questions, doesn't it? If God is good, then why fill in the blank? If God is good, why isn't it answering my question? Why isn't it ending my pain? Why, why, why?

4:15That is a question for far too many of us. Every time we enter into that season of suffering, where we're asking why? I am thrilled that Chad Roberts is with us because he could have asked that question over and over and over and over again, but he didn't. And because of what God is doing in his life through his refiner's fire, he now can teach us how we can see God through the darkness. And there's a double entendre to that subtitle of his new book Blind Faith and we'll get to that in a moment. In the meantime, let me tell you who Chad is. He's the founder and lead pastor of preaching Christ church. Don't you love the name of that church? That's one thing I can be sure of. If I walk into church that says preaching Christ, they're holding out the word of life and they're holding fast to that, which is good and amen to that. He's the author and Bible teacher for awakened to grace. He's traveled through 40 countries sharing the gospel and training leaders. And in 2018, his life changed dramatically, but he continues his work as a pastor, fully sustained by the grace, the power,

5:17and the love of Christ. Chad, what an honor to have you with us. Thanks for being here. So happy to be with you. Thank you. Oh, what a joy. All right. Tell me first about your coming to faith in Christ. Well, you know, interestingly enough, my parents before I came along, neither of my parents were believers. And then my mom gets gloriously saved, but not my dad. And so by the time I come along, you know, my mom is growing in her faith, but my dad is just as worldly as they come. They ended up staying together as Rocky as it was, but my dad finally came to faith the last 15 years of his life. So growing up in what I did, you know, God just gave me such a passion, such a heart for prodigals, for people who run from God. And it's just marked me forever. And I'm so glad that my dad right now, this very moment is in heaven. Oh, amen to that, Chad.

6:17So we come to faith in Christ, and you see God working miraculously in the lives of your parents as well. When did you get a sense of what God was asking you to do with your life for him? I was extremely young. I had a family friend who just saw God's call on my life. And he approached my parents and said, I want Chad to spend the summer with me in former communist Europe, in Romania, Ukraine, all those areas hungry, and I was only 12 years old. Wow. And my parents said, no way. But God dealt with them and dealt with them. And finally, I went to summers that I was both 12 and 13. And it just marked my life forever with ministry, the gospel, missions, and it's all I've known since then. Wow. So you grew up living what I was taught as a child, which is wanting to be on fire for Christ. And you certainly were. Yes.

7:17Wow. So God moves you. You're getting involved in ministry. Where was your first place of serving him? Well, really, just rooted in my home church. They used to me, even though I was a kid, they gave me ample opportunity and taught me as a young kid. God, you know, let no man despise you. You've God wants to use you. And by the time that I had reached my 20s, I knew God was calling me to plant a church and we planted preaching Christ church and just continued on in global missions everywhere that we had opportunity. Wow. So how old is preaching Christ church? 25 years old this year. Unbelievable. It is. That's a quarter of a century at the same church, which is actually fabulous. But that's been the root. Has it not because out of there you've still been involved in a lot of mission strips. You still have very much of a heart for the mission field. Do you not? Oh, you know, the Lord's been so good to us. And when we started, we said, you know,

8:20we are going to measure the pulse of this church by missions, not by offerings, not by attendance, not by programming. We're going to measure our success by missions. And to this day, 25 years later, we can completely measure our health, our pulse by missions. Wow. So philosophical slash theological question as we come up to a break. Is it me or do you sense that in the church capital C universal, there has been a kind of pulling back from missions. I grew up in a very missions oriented church. We'd walk out of the church under a sign that said, you're now entering your mission field. Do you think that we're as passionate about missions as we should be or have been in the past? Well, you know, the people that I hang around, they certainly are. Maybe it's the company that we keep. I don't know. But yeah, the people I'm around, King Demand. Amen. May your tribe increase. Chad, let me take a break and we'll come back. And I'm going to talk about what happened in 2018 because that was a seminal point in your life.

9:20Chad Roberts is with us. He's written a wonderful, tender, compassionate, insightful, biblical book called Blind Faith, seeing God through darkness. What a descriptor of what it's like to be in a season of suffering. But for Chad, it has a whole lot deeper meaning than that as well. He's a great Bible teacher, by the way. You're going to love this book back after this. The story of Zachariah and Elizabeth reminds us that God remembers us and keeps his promises. That's why I've chosen God hasn't forgotten you as this month's truth tool, just like he did through this ancient couple. God is working in you and through you. As for your copy of God hasn't forgotten you when you give a gift of any amount to in the market. Call 877 Janet, 58, that's 877 Janet, 58, or go to in the market with Janet Partial.org. Revising with Chad Roberts, we get to spend the entire hour with him. He's the founder and lead pastor of Preaching Christ Church.

10:22He is the author and Bible teacher for awakened to grace. And he joins us with his book called Blind Faith, Seeing God Through Darkness. So Chad, I'm going to ask you to take us back. The reason I asked about always being mission-minded because the story really starts with a mission trip to Central America in the year is 2018. And I left out loud because you were invited to go look at a Christian radio tower. I have an affinity, in case you had guests of a bat was. So I want to hear what happened. It sounds like a wonderful thing. First of all, thank you for wanting to check a Christian radio tower. It's about proclaiming the gospel. You decided to take this trip and what happened? Well, we've always loved Christian radio and always just valued it so much. Well, so yeah, we're in Central America. I'm there to train pastors and we decide to hike this large mountain. We go to, we finally get to the top of a Christian radio tower. We're actually looking over the border into Honduras and all of a sudden blood vessels burst behind my eyes. It's like looking through a spider web of blood.

11:23And of course, you know, I panicked internally in the moment, but I didn't say anything. I just excused myself. I came down off the mountain as quick as I could. And that by that evening, the blood had dissipated, but I knew something significant had happened. So, you know, I get home, I go to the doctor and they say, Chad, you have no choice, but surgery and two failed surgeries later. I was blind. Wow. Chad, you're right about this in the book. I want to linger here because I walked through this experience with you as much as I could as a third party stepping into your shoes. So, the doctor says we can take care of this and he puts a drop of water behind time to hold it sounds like the retina in place. That doesn't work and then they go back and they put in like a silicone mixture, put it in there. That doesn't work. But in the process, it just totally eradicates the vision, correct? So, did you have, before the surgeries, could you see anything at all? I could and in the final failed surgery, the surgeon accidentally tore my retina.

12:25So, that's why I was immediately blind in my left. And then 15 months later, I rapidly went blind in my right. My eyesight just diminished week after week. So, you can imagine, you know, the pressure it put on my family, the questions around my church, I mean, how could I even preach if I can't see a Bible? And there were just questions swirling about our lives. Wow. When the other I went in that 15-month period, was it attributable to the burst, burst blood vessels that were on the mountain when you were in Central America? Yeah, you know, they tell me that so often what happens when I jumps over to the next eye and so it's common that then, yeah. Wow. So, oh, Chad, let me walk inside your shoes a little bit here. How could you not be raging mad? First of all, when the blood vessels burst, you could have said, why God? But then when you have a mortal and a white coat telling you, oh, we've got this, don't worry about it.

13:26Whatever you do, don't look it up on the internet, he says to you. So, you would be mad. Well, it's counsel, I'm sure. So, it doesn't work, not once, but it doesn't work twice. And then you have this slow, steadfast, erosion, eventual loss of vision over 15 months. How do you not become enraged if God? Well, you know, I can remember so clearly there was one night I was lying in bed and just my vision was just nearly gone. And back in those days, I don't know if they're still popular or not, but staples would run these commercials with this big red easy button. And I can remember just telling God that night, it was nearly midnight. And I said, God, I just need an easy button to hit. If you would just let me hit that button and just pause all of this because it was all happening so fast. And I remember the Lord just reminded me what it Paul said in the book of Acts is through many tribulations that we enter the kingdom.

14:27And God just, you know, through the whole process, God taught me he doesn't waste anything. He's not haphazard. God is not coincidental. He doesn't do things accidentally. It all comes with purpose. Wow. Could you sense this is a question so many ask in the midst of suffering, which is, God, I can't see the purpose in all of this. And so how do we get to the point? Because ultimately, I think it's a question of surrender, isn't it, Chad? In fact, in the margin of my Bible in the very leaflet in the front, I've said, God, help me to trust your heart when I can't see your hand for that exact reason. If I can't, and then I think to myself, what is man that thou art mindful of him? Who is God to have to give me an explanation of what he's doing in my life? If I love him, and I can trust him, and I know that nothing happens to me, that wasn't first vetted in the throne room of heaven, sit down, be quiet, and just see where he takes you on this. But boy, that takes a lot of exercise and a whole lot of learning how to surrender, does it not? Well, I think Joe prayed to one of the greatest prayers

15:29in the entire Bible. He simply put his hand over his mouth. And I think sometimes that's the response that we need to give to God, that we are. He's the creator. We are the creation. And Joe, it comforts me. You know, we ride about it in a chapter in the book called, Where is God in times of uncertainty? And it's on the life of Job, in the suffering of Job. And you remember in chapter 23, in verse nine, Job says, I looked for God. He wasn't ahead of me. He wasn't behind me. I looked to my ride. I looked to my left. Job could not sense God. And so many believers are in that place today where no matter how hard they pray, no matter how hard they trust, they don't sense God. But what did he say in verse 10? Job said, but he knows the path that I take. And I think that's what you're saying. When you say, I may not be able to see God's heart

16:29in this matter or his hand, but I trust his heart. And God sees the path we're on. And what did he say? When I've come through this, I'm going to be pure and gold. The refineress fire. Absolutely. Wow. Let me take a break and come back to so many questions I want to ask you. I can tell you love the word, Chad, because what you do in your book, Blind Faith, is you do character studies of people who are suffering. So you write about Joseph and Joseph at. And you write about several other Bible characters. Job. And we walk through their experiences. And every one of those stories, which are really at their core stories of suffering, by the way, it's an attribute of God that we can take away. One of the reasons why we can trust him. And this is a look. It's not easy to do this. This requires muscle memory. It retires time and the word. It requires an overwhelming amount of trust to be able to say, God, you're in charge. I'm not. You mark out my days and you make way. You make my way clear.

17:30Let me continue with Chad right after this. We're visiting with Chad Roberts, who's the author of the book, Blind Faith, seeing God through the darkness. And it really does tell us how we suffer well. Not a popular, happy topic, but it's the reality of not yet being home and living east of Eden. And the Bible is filled with stories of people who persevered in the midst of suffering. And there are wonderful lessons for us if they can do it. I mean, just think about the scripture that invites us to join in the fellowship of this suffering. Not the number one verse for scripture memory for most people. And speaking of scripture memory, oh, boy, Chad, two stories out of the book that made me laugh out loud. One was you walked up to the pulpit at church and you turned your back to the audience

18:31when they knew you couldn't see and they all gasped. And then you turned around and said, just kidding, which was great. It broke the ice and nobody was concerned about it afterwards. Correct? Yes. What a wonderful story. The other thing. And this was extremely impressive. You knew that the lights were slowly dimming. You had that 15 months before you lost your site totally to this day. You don't have notes. You have this unbelievable ability to memorize scripture. And you talk about the verse that says out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks. It's all written in there because it just comes out of you. Talk to me about that. Were you just voraciously memorizing scripture before the blindness? Or was this always a hunger and a passion that you had? I mean, if your church is called preaching Christ, there's a big hint there. Yeah. No, I've always loved the word. And you know, it's amazing what you can do when you have to do something. And I didn't have the ability to memorize when I had eyesight the way that I do now. I mean, it really is remarkable.

19:32But you know, people will come up to me and they'll say, gosh, Chad, I wish I could remember scripture the way that you do. And I actually had a lady tell me just the other day she said, I feel so guilty because I did this Bible study a few days ago and I can't remember the scripture. And I remember asking, or just hit me in the moment, I said, would you tell me what you ate for dinner 10 nights ago? And she said, I have no idea. And that's what that's not the point. The point is you ate. The point is that you sustained yourself. You receive those nutrients. And that's the point of the Bible. Just feed yourself every day, feed your soul daily and you'll gain the strength and the benefit of that. Oh, I love that. I've never heard it put that way before, Chad. So any time of the word is what you're saying is beneficial, whether you can remember everything you learned the last time you were in a particular section or not. So how do you memorize scripture today? Do you listen to an auditory or an audio Bible?

20:33And then that's how you memorize it? Yeah, you know, I use all of the AI devices and I love you version. And so, you know, if I'm speaking on one particular verse, I'll memorize it phrase for phrase. Just now, you know, sometimes I, you know, just the Lord directs me out. I'll preach on an entire chapter and I may not memorize it word for word, but I mean, I know it frontward and backward and I just go, I just go through it and through it. Wow. Okay. That raises an interesting question because if we're, the challenge is to suffer well. And if we accept invitation to join in the fellowship of his suffering and we have the reality check that all of us are going to suffer. It's a little bit and I'm talking to you in the shadow of the nation's capital, but we're in the mid-Atlantic region and hurricanes are constant happening here. We're taught how to be prepared for when the storm comes. Isn't this a wonderful reason to start hiding his word in our heart? So when the storm comes, I don't know about you, but that's, that's where I go to get

21:34the sustenance to be able to push through the storm. Absolutely. When we started laying this project out with life way, it was very important to me that everyone understands this is not my story. This book, Blind Faith, I sprinkle some of my story through it, but see, my story doesn't teach anyone how to suffer well. It's the scriptures that teaches us how to suffer well and it was extremely important to me that this is a teaching book that as you so wonderfully said a few moments ago, it's the characters of the scripture and it shows us the character of God. That's the only thing that helps us suffer well, not our own determination or our own strength or self will. What a brilliant point, Chad, and not only that, but when we read the scriptures about these individuals, we see how God intervened, how he provided, how he comforted.

22:34And so reading that holistically isn't just the person's experience. What God did in through and for that person in the midst of their suffering. And if he can do it for Joseph, if he can do it for Joe, but if he can do it for Jehovah's to that, he can do it for you as well. You wrote early on in the book and I really underlined this that one of the things one we're suffering is to learn to have self control. In fact, you call it the right response. Talk to me about that. Oh, yes, you know, that's one thing that I learned very quickly is I cannot control anything. I can't even control what my body does. I can't control the breakdown of my vision. I can't control the way other people act. I can't control what other people say, but there is one thing I can control. And that's my response. That's my reaction. So when Paul says in Philippians 4, let your reasonableness be known to everyone. What that word means is that it's the right spiritually mature reaction.

23:35And that's what the world needs to see when Christians suffer. You know, we don't think about that in that verse that often. The reasonableness. I mean, I love that. And when you contextualize that in terms of suffering, I thought in other words, it's a message to the world when we suffer well. Is it not that we're not in control, but he is. And we have calm in the midst of a storm. I mean, that has to translate, if done well, powerfully to an unsafe world. Does it not? Absolutely. Well, when we come back, I want to look at Joseph. You write about so many wonderful people in the scriptures, but take a look at Joseph. You know, we think of him as a Broadway musical and as code of many colors and all of those attributes. But for the more I go back and study his story, there's a whole lot of suffering that goes on in his life. And you picked up on that in your book, Blind Faith. Chad Roberts is with us. By the way, I've got a link to awakened to grace.com. That's his ministry. By the way, also he's the founder and lead pastor of preaching Christ Church and the author

24:36of Blind Faith. Seeing God through darkness. More with Chad Roberts right after this. As a Christian, how do you digest the cultural issues of our day? And in the market, we believe that understanding happens when we bring biblical truth to expose the darkness in our world. That's what we do every day on in the market. May I ask you to join us when you become a partial partner, your monthly gift ensures this daily program continues. Become a partial partner today by calling 877 Janet 58 or go to in the market with Janet partial dot O R G. We're spending the hour with Chad Roberts who's the founder and lead pastor of preaching Christ Church. He's the author and Bible teacher for awakened to grace and he's traveled through 40 countries sharing the gospel and training leaders all around the globe.

25:38So he suffered blindness in 2018. That has not stopped him at all. He continues to serve the Lord with passion. He is fully sustained as he says by the grace of God. And he writes with eloquence about his journey of suffering. But as he said, and I hope you picked up on his humility on this and very impressive, but very spot on. He sprinkles his story throughout the book, his word, and he's absolutely right because he wants us to hear the stories of the saints of old who endured suffering. And in the word of God, first of all, it'll drive you to the word of God. Second of all, you'll be able to see how God sustained and comforted and provided for people who were suffering just as he will for us. So Chad's story is a launching pad. And he, not only that, he speaks as one who has learned how to suffer well. And I don't know about you, but we need to listen to people who have had that experience. So we too can honor the Lord by suffering well, blind faith, seeing God through darkness. So one of the many characters that you use as a teaching model for suffering is the story

26:42of Joseph. And I wasn't being facetious before Chad because I fall into this group. You know, they turn a Broadway musical into Joseph and his coat of many colors. And we see cartoons made out of him on that Disney puts out. And it's really easy to see all of that. And then you start looking at time and you go, whoa, whoa, wait, how long was he in that sister? How old was he when he was taken into slavery? How many years did he spend in a dungeon? The Bible says not prison dungeon before being falsely accused. You talk about fertile grounds for a bad attitude. That was not Joseph's response. Talk to me about him. I love the story of Joseph beginning to end. And you know, when I think about Joseph, I think how we have the benefit of knowing the end of his story, but he didn't. And my favorite phrase in the life of Joseph, remember after he interpreted the dreams and he felt so confident that, you know, he was going to be released from prison. I mean, you know, Pharaoh was going to hear a story. The scripture simply says, two whole years, I just, you know, I think that was the longest

27:50stretch. I think that was longer than everything that had happened to him previously. But what that was at two whole years, that was the making of a godly man and it wasn't wasted time. Yeah. Well, I need to think about it. Fourteen years in prison, Chad, and he, yes, he comes someone who interprets dreams for a cup of air and a baker and that's going to have a profound impact on his future once he's lifted out of prison. But when you think about being falsely accused, I mean, we can relate to that in 21st century America. I think we see crime shows on the air all the time, somebody who's suffered an injustice and being imprisoned for something they didn't do wrong. And you really come out of there with a freedom of choice of your attitude. I'll never forget Bonhoeffer writing when he's talked about the cost of discipleship that even though he was being held by the Germans, they could take everything away from him. And his food, his family, all of the creature comforts, but they could never take away he said, his freedom to choose the right attitude. How important is that for us, his saints? Oh, it's everything. Our perspective is everything and that's what Satan wants to skew.

28:55That's what he wants to twist. That's what he wants to, to sour in our life. But no, when we have the right attitude and our view is right and that's what gives us that is scripture people like Joseph. Now we can face anything. I call that chapter the King's prison because he wasn't in an ordinary place. And you know, I loved that chapter so much because I talk about my own experience, visiting an Egyptian prison, which was so fascinating on its own, but it nothing like as you described it, the dungeon that Joseph would have been in that day. Yeah. And yet didn't have a bad attitude. I can't tell you how convicted I am about this. Speaking about dreams, I'm going to go back to Joseph in a minute, but and dreams are obviously very much a part of Joseph's story, but you wrote with such tenderness and transparency about how you dream at night and technicolor and then you wake in the morning to the darkness. And boy, that just hit me right between my ribs because I thought, wow, again, Satan,

29:59before you even put your feet on the bedroom floor, you could say, oh, I'm so mad. And right before you even get started and kick your slippers off, Chad, you have to start choosing the right attitude. That's right. That's exactly right. You know, no one told me going from a sighted man to a blind man that I would still dream and vivid color. And I could see at I mean, I love to go to bed because I can see everything. I tell my kids, I'm only blind half the time, the other time I'm dreaming. But when I would wake up, especially in those early days, to pitch blackness and no matter what I did, nothing changed, days like that, my emotions would have kept me in bed. But I would, I would set up on the edge of my bed. I've done this more times that I can count. And I would say this is the day that the Lord has made. I will rejoice and I will be glad in it. And I'd go on with my day. And by the time the Lord and I had had my coffee, well, we were having a great day.

31:04But I had to learn joy is not a feeling. It's a choice. James 1, 2 says count it all joy when you encounter trials of various kinds. Boy, can I tell you how that gets driven home to me, Paul writing from prison to the church at Philippi and says, this is big brother, Paul, I have learned in whatsoever state. I'm in to be content. It didn't come naturally. He had to make that choice. And if Paul had to work at it, so do we. And it's an exercise of the will. You know, sometimes free will drives me bonkers because it gets me into trouble with sin. But there are other times when I'm so grateful for free will because I can choose to have that attitude of gratitude. And I have to tell you, Chad, I laughed out loud. That is the verse I say every day when I get up in the morning, every single day, the fact that I'm breathing, he's gotten here for a purpose one more day. So this is the day the Lord has made. Let me rejoice and be glad in it. Well, I had to learn I'm not going to, I'm not going to let emotions lead the way. I'm going to, I'm going to let my will lead the way.

32:06Why? Because my will is saturated in the word of God. And that's what's leading the way for me. Wow. Let me go back to our friend Joseph. You said there are three principles, one, what the Lord was with Joseph, number two, second principle, look for God's provenance. And then the third principle is serve others. Those are fascinating takeaways from the life of Joseph. Talk to me about that. Well, again, I just don't know if Joseph being in the situation he was in, not knowing the end of his story, having no promises out of God's word, the way that we do, did he feel God with him, but yet over and over, the scripture says the Lord was with him. And I think sometimes we base everything on how we feel. No, we have to base our faith on what we know from the word. And I may not feel God with me in a particular moment. I may not feel God with me in a certain situation or even a season, but that doesn't take

33:11away the fact he will never leave us nor forsake us. So good. So good. How did Joseph look for God's provenance? Well, you know, I remember writing that portion of the book. And I remember telling such a wonderful story about President Abraham Lincoln. And I love that story so much of Providence. And it's there. We just have to look for it. And I think, I think with Joseph and all that he suffered and all that he went through, I think he did in the end, I think he knew God was with him. I think there were times he didn't feel it, but I think he did know it. And isn't it interesting? Well, the last thing most of us would think about when we're under the crushing pain of suffering is to serve others. I love this. Talk to me about this because I, again, you talk about an attitude of gratitude and CS Lewis said it beautifully. He said, the will has to proceed the emotions.

34:12And this is a perfect example of this. So how do you serve when you're suffering? Well, I had to learn this. You know, I don't know why, but Saturday nights were my worst days. And I just struggled the most. You know, through the week, I'm here at the church. I'm leading the staff of, you know, we're, I'm always busy, but Saturdays, it wasn't like that. And Saturdays, I struggled. Well, you know what we started doing? My church started serving the homeless and we would take a home-cooked meal every Saturday to the homeless shelter, one of them here in our town. And the more I began serving, the happier I was. And I just noticed how my entire attitude changed. And you know, that's what Joseph did. Joseph could have heard these men's dreams and Joseph could have had the attitude, well, you know what, God, you want me to interpret dreams, get me out of here, you know, change my circumstance, get me out of this prison, but no, he served right where he was.

35:13And that's the choice we have to make in our sufferings. You know, that's such an important point, Chad, because I think for a lot of us when we're in the midst of suffering, we're sort of marginalized that are suffering. And there's some truth to this that suffering does tend to isolate because you can have a wonderfully supportive spouse, but if you're struggling with something, you can have the prayer support, the physical presence of that person. But ultimately, you're in the refiner's fire all by yourself. And that's a toughy because you think, I'm isolated, my suffering puts me in a place of isolation, or I've allowed myself to go into a place of isolation. But you turn that around and you start feeding the homeless, and you just break through that barrier, do you not? Well, you know, in the book, we also talk about the difference between isolation and solitude. Yes. We're in solitude and we said in the book, solitude is when you are alone with God, isolation is when you are alone with you. And that's not a healthy space. Yeah.

36:13Such wisdom in this book, I just love it and I, you know, the reality is, as I said at the top of the hour, it's not a favorite topic of anybody's, but it's a reality. Not when, not if, but when these fiery trials come in this life, you will have tribulation. It's a guaranteed the Lord tells us. So we have to get over the shock and awe, realize it's going to happen, and get prepared now. And one of the ways you can do that, and this is why Chad is such an excellent teacher. Start studying the characters of the Bible who suffered, which by the way is an over-helming number of people in the scriptures, and you can learn how God was there, how he provided, how he met their needs, and he'll do the same for you. Blind faith, seeing God through darkness, Chad's new book, back after this. Blind faith, seeing God through darkness, that's the new book by Chad Roberts. He's the founder and lead pastor of preaching Christ's church. He's also the author and Bible teacher for awakened to grace.

37:14He's traveled around the globe, sharing the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ and training up leaders. And this is a wonderful study in suffering. And yes, he quotes, sprinkles his story throughout, but basically he wants us to get into the Word and read the stories again of those who suffered. And there's no shortage of those stories in scripture by any stretch of the imagination. So Chad, if I can, I was, there's such wisdom. And this isn't just empty flattery. I have to tell you, you really tackled this subject compassionately through the first person narrative of what you've had to done. And there's just something about a wounded comforter that impacts us so well, and you certainly fall into that category. But your understanding and your application of the Word is wonderful. I'm going to talk about time because you talk about the fact that when you had to learn patience that you had to wait for people to pick you up because you couldn't drive anymore. And that you knew that all of this was about bringing you to maturity and completing you. The good thing which he has begun, if I can put it in scripture. But you also love the phrase.

38:16You talk about us being Amazon prime Christians. Talk to me about this because I think in a world where the data tells us now you're lucky if you spend 15 seconds on a website, you can't flip through your smartphone fast enough and you're lucky if you get a minute when you're watching television before you hit the remote control. Sitting and waiting is antithetical to the American pace of life right now. And yet it is crucial in our maturing in him. Talk to me about this. Absolutely. You know, it doesn't matter what changes in our society, that matter, what technology changes, patience is still a spiritual fruit. And I had to learn that. I had to learn it in ways I never thought that I would. You know, as you mentioned, I say in the book, when my life came to a grinding halt, you know, I couldn't just jump in my car and zip through town. I couldn't just jump on an airplane and go to another country like I was so accustomed to. Now I'm standing in my driveway with a backpack feeling like a kid waiting on someone to

39:19pick me up to take me to the church office. It was awful. And I can just remember the Lord, you know, maybe it doesn't resonate with everyone, but I can just remember the Lord telling me, just picture a lush fruit and now take a bite out of it. And the Lord said, that's patience and it became sweet to me. And the Lord just taught it to me in such wonderful and kind and gracious ways. And you know, I tell people today, there's been far more gain than there's been loss in blindness. I'm just truly, I can say it with a pure heart, a pure conscience. I'm so thankful for it. There are lush green pastures. I would have never known had God not Psalm 232 made me to lie down in them. Wow. It really is about so many things that we learn only when we suffer. Doesn't that tell you something about the human condition that, you know, it's the

40:22idea of CS Lewis again about whispering us in our joy and how he shouts to us in our pain because that's a way of getting our attention. And then we're willing to do the tough stuff we won't do when we're just whistling past the graveyard on a regular basis. So I love the way you talk about that. This attribute of patience is important. I always used to say, Lord, I think your clock is broken because it seems to not be working. It's far too slow. And you talk about the three answers we get for prayer, yes, no, and wait from your perspective. And I love the way you're harken back to Isaiah and this one. Why is it so crucial that we learn to wait upon the Lord? That's an easy Bible verse. Most of us memorize early when we're getting into Bible memorization. But it's one thing to memorize it. It's a whole other thing to do it. Why is it so important? Well, I think it's special to the Lord. You know, Christians would do well to watch the calendar, not the clock. And I think it's such a special thing to the Lord when we wait, you know, I remember the Lord asking me out of that scripture in Isaiah, will you be one of those?

41:26Part of they. I said, Lord, what do you mean? He said they that way to burn the Lord. That's a special group of people. Those are people who find pleasure in saying, God, I may not get the outcome. I'm hoping for the prayer may not be answered the way that I think it should be. But ultimately, I trust you and you're worth waiting on. Wow. You tell the story. I know this story. I wonder if some people listening across the country don't, but talk to me about Mary and George Mueller, because this ties into the idea that God is never late. Oh, the Mueller's what examples of faith and that's what I love. You know, not only do we share the scriptural characters, but we go back into church history and we tell wonderful stories of church history. You'll have to refresh me. Was that the story of the bread and the milk? Yes. Yes. And Bristol. All in the opening. Yes. Yes. Yes.

42:27They get up that morning and all of the orphans, there's no food in the house. And George Mueller, he lines up all the children, just like normal, empty bowls, empty cabinets, nothing. And he tells the children. We're going to thank God for our daily bread today. And they pray. And while he is praying, a knock is on the door and it was the local bread baker. He said, God woke me up in the middle of the night and told me to start baking bread. And then the milk, the milk delivery man, his heart broke down right in front of the orphanage. And he told George Mueller, if I don't get rid of it, it's going to spoil could the children use it. And what did Mueller say? Not only did God give us bread, not only did God give us milk, he gave us fresh bread and fresh milk. It's only God can, wow, Chad, there's so much more in the book. And so let me just ask for a capstone again, I'll repeat myself because it's true.

43:27Let's not kid ourselves suffering is not fun. It was not designed to be, but it is unbelievably important in changing who we are in conforming and transforming us to the image of Christ, back to Isaiah, how dare the pot say to the potter, what are you doing? Well, this is God molding and shaping us. So just one last word, Chad, for someone who's in the midst of suffering right now, what would you say to them as a word of encouragement? I would say it's not fun, it's not fair, but it is worth it, because God doesn't waste anything. Chad, what a wonderful and memorable conversation. Thank you, brother. May the Lord open wide more doors of opportunity for you to share your story into and encourage the saints because suffering is a reality. It'll end when real life begins. We're not yet there. So in the meantime, it's important that we learn to suffer well for what it's doing for us and what our suffering can do for others as well. Chad's book is marvelous. It's called Blind Faith, Seeing God Through Darkness. And again, I have a link to his website, AwakenToGrace.com.

44:29It's all there on my information page. By the way, someone you know might be struggling right now and then they have missed this broadcast. Send them the link or take them to wherever you find your favorite podcast and put in today's date and ask to see and listen for Chad Roberts. This is his conversation, his story, his encouragement to somebody who's hearing right now. My thanks again to Chad Roberts and to you friends. We'll see you next time on In The Market with Janet Farnsville.