Bombshell: Kentucky Cheerleader Slapped With New Charges After Secret Birth Horror | Laken Snelling

Skincare experts and dermatologists have often touted the benefits of indoor humidity as essential for healthy glowing skin.

But did you know dry air can start to harm your skin in as little as 30 minutes?

For years, many people have relied on humidifiers for better skin,

sleep, and overall wellness.

But traditional models, bulky, multi-prone, and difficult to maintain.

That's where canopy humidifier comes in.

Recommended by leading dermatologists,

canopy is a completely reimagined humidifier designed to elevate any space,

offering the ultimate in skin care and wellness benefits.

Canopies clean moisture, come that's dryness,

dullness, and fine lines while strengthening the skin's barrier

and boosting the effectiveness of topical skincare products.

With its sleek design,

canopy is the cleanest and easiest humidifier on the market.

With its unique technology,

cleaning is as easy as popping it in the dishwasher.

Go to getcanopy.co to save $25 on your canopy humidifier purchase today

with canopies filter subscription.

Even better, use code podcast to check out

to save an additional 10% off your canopy purchase.

Your skin will thank you.

Finding great candidates to hire can be like,

well, trying to find a needle in a haystack.

Sure, you can post your job to some job board,

but then all you can do is hope the right person comes along.

Which is why you should try Zippercrooter for free.

At zippercrooter.com slash zip.

Zippercrooter doesn't depend on candidates finding you.

It finds them for you.

It's powerful technology identifies people with the right experience

and actively invites them to apply to your job.

You get qualified candidates fast.

So while other companies might deliver a lot of,

hey, Zippercrooter finds you what you're looking for.

The needle in the haystack.

See why four out of five employers who post a job on Zippercrooter

get a quality candidate within the first day.

Zippercrooter, the smartest way to hire.

And right now, you can try Zippercrooter for free.

That's right.

Free at zippercrooter.com slash zip.

That zippercrooter.com slash zip zippercrooter.com slash zip.

Hey, everybody.

I'm Ashley Banfield and this is Drop Dead Serious.

Welcome to the Vermont Outpost.

It's nice to have you here.

If you've been a part of our podcast for a while, thank you.

If you're brand new, thank you and hit subscribe.

It is great.

We so appreciate it.

All of our subscribers, but also all of our members.

You guys have been amazing.

And thank you so much for your support.

It means everything.

When you're an independent journalist like this,

it means the world.

So a little different story tonight.

If you've been following the saga of a young woman named

Laken Snelling,

Young University of Kentucky cheerleader,

you may remember that back in September, 2025,

Ms. Snelling found herself in a world of hurt.

And that's because her roommates,

housemates she was living with,

found something in her closet.

It was a dead baby.

It was Laken's dead baby.

And that baby was wrapped up

and stuffed in the closet,

presumably to hide the fact that there was a baby at any time.

And we've got a lot to update you on

because here we are seven months later.

And I was sort of wondering,

where is that case?

And when you know it, big update dropped.

And it turns out,

yeah, we have been waiting a while.

But it's an update that I don't think

Laken Snelling wanted to hear.

It does not bode well for her.

And I'm going to get to all the details in just a minute.

But I want to just get you up to speed

on the details of the case,

because I almost forgot a few of them

because it's been so long, right?

Let me take you all the way back to August 27th,

again, 2025, last summer.

Police got a phone call.

And they were dispatched to an off-campus home

near the University of Kentucky in Lexington.

And the words from the dispatch were,

I guess, chilling is a one way to describe it,

but just very disturbing.

A dead baby in the closet cold to the touch.

That's what they were told.

So officers get there to the house that they're sent to.

And they go to the bedroom that they're told to go to

and they open the closet door,

that they're told to open.

And what they find inside is what no officer is ever prepared for.

A black trash bag.

It's lake and snowing's bedroom.

It's her closet.

And inside the trash bag,

they find used cleaning supplies.

They find bloody rags.

And in amongst all of that,

they find the body of a newborn infant, not alive.

And according to the police,

lake and snowing admitted that she had given birth alone in that bedroom.

She had cleaned up everything that had happened,

cleaned up the scene alone and had placed everything.

The supplies, the blood,

the baby's body into that trash bag.

So obviously,

Lincoln was arrested and she was charged.

But the charges were odd at the time.

A lot of people were wondering,

where's the murder charge?

But there was no murder charge.

There was still a lot of investigation to do to figure out what happened in that bedroom.

Miss Nelling was charged with abuse of a corpse,

tampering with evidence,

and concealing the birth of an infant.

But they're serious enough charges, right?

And they set her bond at $100,000.

But she was able to post it, or her family.

Whoever it was, they posted it.

And she was released to house arrest at her parents' homes

in Jefferson City, Tennessee.

But they lived separately.

Mom and dad lived separately.

So according to court documents,

Lincoln claimed that she delivered this baby

and was awake for about a half hour after giving birth.

But then she says she passed out,

and that she passed out right on top of the newborn baby.

She says when she came to,

she could see that the infant was, quote,

turning blue and purple and, quote,

and believing that the baby had died,

Lincoln admitted that she had wrapped the baby up,

quote, like a burrito, quote,

because it, quote, gave her comfort, end quote.

And yet in those same documents, those court documents,

Lincoln also admitted that the baby showed, quote,

a little fetal movement, end quote,

very strange thing to say.

But then she also mentioned that the baby gave a faint whimper

when he was born.

That's going to matter a lot.

Wait for it.

It's coming.

Instead of dialing 911 or yelling out to her roommates,

help me.

I'm in trouble and I need help.

She did none of those things.

She, like she said, wrapped everything up and put it

in the garbage bag and put it in her closet

and then left, left the house.

And what she did next is the subject of a lot of consternation.

People are not happy when they hear this detail.

She went to McDonald's and got some food and ate that food.

Now, before you pass judgment, know this.

Anyone who's ever given birth,

when you finally get through it all,

many of us, maybe not all, but certainly me, you're starving.

You have been through hell.

You have run a marathon.

You are starving.

There's really no other way to put it.

And all the hospitals know it and they bring it.

They bring the food to you.

So for those who are passing judgment,

maybe this is the only place where she could get food

and she was so hungry and feeling weak.

It's possible, right?

So it might sound awful.

I'm just going to go to McDee's,

get something.

The other side of that coin is that I'm starving

and this is the closest place and it's a drive-through.

And she had a car.

So after McDonald's, she then stopped by the campus health clinic.

But from all the reports, it looks like she just stayed there.

Parked, did not go inside.

And instead decided not to go inside and to go to class.

Her roommates ultimately went into her room

and looked in the closet.

And that's where they found the baby.

I want to read to you this section here,

part of the court documents.

I want to read directly from them,

but you better brace yourself.

It's kind of hard to listen to this.

It's pretty triggering for this.

I think a lot of people too.

Quote.

Miss Nellings stated that around 4am she gave birth to a baby,

which fell into the floor of her bedroom.

Miss Nellings stated that she didn't think the baby was breathing or was alive.

Miss Nellings advised that she was awake for around 30 minutes after giving birth

before falling on top of the baby.

Miss Nellings said that when she woke up from passing out,

she quickly got up and observed the baby turning blue and purple.

And before I go on, I should say to you,

many times these are the words of reporting officers, right?

They're called affians.

This affiant witnessed this and this affiant saw this.

And a lot of times these are the words of officers.

And so it's their prose, right?

It's their prose.

It's their writing of their experience.

And I have seen police reports and affidavits before

that were just appalling.

Like so many errors and just the wrong way to describe something

and ways that are far more inditing of the person than what the person actually said.

So just take this with a grain of salt.

This is the, this is the recollections of an officer

and what the officer is writing.

I will continue.

Laykin said that she believed the baby to be dead

and wrapped the baby up like a burrito

and laid next to it in the floor because it gave her a little comfort in the moment.

I'm not 100% sure if Layton used the it or if the officer used the it,

but the baby is referred to and we know the baby is a boy.

Miss Nelling said that she was woken up by her alarm at 7.30am for class at 9.30.

Miss Nelling said that she noticed that she was still bloody

and needed to get a shower.

Miss Nelling said that she went to the kitchen to get a black trash bag.

Miss Nelling said that she placed the baby

which was still wrapped up inside of the towel

inside of the black trash bag and placed the black trash bag in the closet.

Miss Nelling said that she went and took a shower to clean up.

Miss Nelling said that after taking the shower she came back into her room

and started to clean up the rest of the blood.

Miss Nelling said that she used paper towels

and the towel she had wrapped the baby in to clean up the rest of the blood.

Miss Nelling said that she placed the placenta inside of a ziploc bag

and placed it inside of the black trash bag.

Miss Nelling said she wrapped the baby back up with the towel

that she had cleaned the rest of the blood up with.

Miss Nelling stated that she then placed the black trash bag

back into the closet and shut the door.

Miss Nelling stated that she left her residence after this and went to school.

Lakin, interesting, they switched from Miss Nelling to Lakin here,

but just once, Lakin stated that she did not go into class

but sat in her vehicle in the parking lot.

Miss Nelling stated that she wasn't feeling well

so she ordered McDonald's through the McDonald's app.

Miss Nelling said that after getting McDonald's,

she went to the University of Kentucky's student clinic

where she also did not go inside.

After this, Miss Nelling stated she returned home

where she was detained and transported to headquarters for questioning.

It should be noted, and again, this is still quoting from the court documents.

It should be noted that when speaking to medical staff at the University of Kentucky

Labor and Delivery, she stated that the baby had a little bit of fetal movement

but passed out shortly after.

So, syntax is everything here.

This is the officer's wording that the baby had a little bit of fetal movement.

Lakin might have said, I think I saw the baby move or an eye move,

but this is the wording of the officer had a little bit of fetal movement.

And then the syntax is but passed out shortly after.

Is that the baby passed out or Lakin's smelling passed out?

I think it's Lakin's smelling, but it's hard to tell from the way this is written,

because again, these are not often written perfectly.

And there can be syntax problems that can lead to misunderstandings later on.

I saw that in Duke LeCrosse as well, a terrible terrible affidavit that was written by an officer.

Terrible.

Miss Nelling stated during her questioning by myself and Detective Martinez

that the only time she passed out was around 30 minutes after giving birth,

which leads me to believe that the baby could have been moving.

So, the officer talking.

Miss Nelling also told medical staff that the baby made a, quote,

whimper and, quote, and that she, quote,

guest, quote, the baby was alive.

All right, that's the end of the quoting directly from, you know, the court documents,

but search warrants of Lakin's cell phone actually revealed some interesting stuff,

some deleted pregnancy searches that included pregnancy hashtags for different weeks of

being pregnant on Facebook and labor photos and other evidence that investigators say point

to a concealed pregnancy. The court documents go on to say that there were photos of Lakin,

quote, during labor and photos of her doing things ordinary pregnant women would not be doing,

and quote, and get this. Again, this is a quote. The photos that were taken while she was in labor

were deleted in an attempt to hide the birth. So, I'm just going to jump in here,

because I believe it's possible that Lakin's Nelling was giving birth alone and could not see

beyond her own belly and didn't know what was happening and may have used her phone to videotape

or photograph the stage that she was in or if the head was crowning or whether the baby was coming

out and then could see what was going on. If you say as a prosecutor, she deleted them to conceal

evidence of the birth. I could see a defense attorney saying she deleted them because she didn't

want anyone to see this. Skin care experts and dermatologists have often touted the benefits of

indoor humidity as essential for healthy glowing skin. But did you know dry air can start to

harm your skin in as little as 30 minutes? For years, many people have relied on humidifiers for

better skin, sleep, and overall wellness. But traditional models, bulky, multi-prone, and

difficult to maintain. That's where canopy humidifier comes in. Recommended by leading dermatologists,

canopy is a completely reimagined humidifier designed to elevate any space, offering the ultimate

skin care and wellness benefits. Canopy's clean moisture combats dryness,

dullness, and fine lines while strengthening the skin's barrier and boosting the effectiveness

of topical skin care products. With its sleek design, canopy is the cleanest and easiest

humidifier on the market. With its unique technology, cleaning is as easy as popping it in the

dishwasher. Go to getcanopy.co to save $25 on your canopy humidifier purchase today with

canopies filter subscription. Even better, use code podcast to check out to save an additional

10% off your canopy purchase. Your skin will thank you. Warning, the following zippercruder

radio spot you are about to hear is going to be filled with F words. When you're hiring,

we at zippercruder know you can feel frustrated. For Lauren even, like your efforts are futile,

and you can spend a fortune trying to find fabulous people, only to get flooded with candidates

who are just fine. Fortunately, zippercruder figured out how to fix all that. And right now,

you can try zippercruder for free at zippercruder.com slash zip. With zippercruder,

you can forget your frustrations, because we find the right people for your roles fast,

which is our absolute favorite F word. In fact, four out of five employers who post on zippercruder

get a quality candidate within the first day. Fantastic. So, whether you need to hire four,

40, or 400 people, get ready to meet first rate talent. Just go to zippercruder.com slash zip

to try zippercruder for free. Don't forget that zippercruder.com slash zip. Finally,

that zippercruder.com slash zip part of her. She was using it as a mirror, so to speak,

but she didn't want anyone to ever see that. So, I could see an argument against that charge,

right, that she's facing concealment, hiding the birth, could be seen two different ways.

So, if you think all of that is bad, there's more. So, buckle up here. Detectives interviewed

all of Lincoln's smellings roommates, and one of them, a girl named Aaron Hamilton, told the police

that everyone in the house used a Snapchat group, and the chat was called the trap at park

for whatever reason. That's what they named it. And the affidavit was on to say that in the early

morning hours of August 27th, about four o'clock in the morning, one of the roommates messaged

that whole group that she heard loud noises, like something had fallen. And another roommate

said that she heard it too, and that the impact was so strong, it actually knocked a picture off of

her wall. That is a lot. One roommate said the noises went on for about a half an hour. At 848 AM,

that next morning, Lincoln texted the group saying those noises were caused by her fainting.

She told her roommates that she hadn't been feeling well, hadn't eaten, and had passed out.

She added that she was going to see a doctor. At 848 AM, that's the next morning,

Lincoln texted the entire group on Snapchat saying the noises that they heard were caused by her

fainting. She told her roommates that she hadn't been feeling well, that she hadn't eaten,

and that she passed out. She added that she was going to see a doctor.

It's important that she is contemporaneously saying to her roommates, just within hours of

this baby being born, that she passed out, right? Because her argument in court is going to be

I passed out and smothered the baby. I didn't kill the baby, I passed out on the baby.

And she has contemporaneous reporting from just hours after it happened that she told her roommates,

she passed out the night before. Now I don't know if this is after hours of Lincoln smelling,

sitting there thinking, well, gosh, if I ever get in trouble for this and there's this fixation,

and I need to have a reason for this fixating, I better tell everybody I passed out on the baby

and smothered the baby. Well, I'm not so sure because I think what Lincoln smelling might have been

doing was putting the baby in a garbage bag to get rid of the baby and never ever tell anyone

she was pregnant. So this is going to be huge for her defense attorney to be able to say, hey,

you all think she's making this up for the police? She told her roommates that morning,

that the noise they heard was her passing out. And she told police later, she actually passed out

on the baby. So it's just it's something her defense attorney is going to be able to seize on.

Regardless of what she told her roommates, the roommates weren't convinced about this,

and they were very curious about what had happened in that bedroom to have all that noise at 4am.

So they went into Lincoln's room and what they found there was horrifying, shocking.

They found a blood-soaked towel on the floor. They found a plastic bag containing evidence of

childbirth. And when they opened the closet, they found the body of a newborn baby boy placed

in bags. The affidavit notes that the baby appeared to be full term, that roommate Aaron Hamilton

also told investigators that all of the roommates actually suspected that Lincoln might have been

pregnant but wasn't admitting it. So fast forward to today. And it is March 11th. I am

recording this podcast March 11th, 2026, and the world of hurt that I referred to at the top of

the episode just hit her full force because it turns out that that newborn baby was in fact

born alive. That's what the autopsies are saying. Yeah. The baby's autopsie report determined that

the infant's cause of death was asphyxia by undetermined means. That's important. Undetermined

means. It's never easy in a court case when you have undetermined means, not impossible but not

easy. You don't have the answer as to what it was that hasphyxiaated that baby. The doctors couldn't

tell. Coroner couldn't tell. That's not going to be easy. But the biggest development that we just

learned about Lincoln's knowing was that a grand jury has added a manslaughter charge to her case.

A first degree manslaughter charge. And you might know that she was already facing abuse of

a corpse, tampering with physical evidence, concealing the birth of an infant. They said,

remember her phone? She deleted the pictures, concealing. Well, maybe she wasn't concealing it.

Maybe she was deleting the pictures because she didn't want anyone to see them because

that's my business. So that could be argued as well. The indictment was reported on March 10th and

by March 11th an arrest warrant had been issued for Lincoln's snelling. All right. And I want to

read you that language in the indictment for that count for the count one manslaughter in the first

degree. It says manslaughter first degree when with intent to cause serious physical injury to the

infant, she caused the death of the infant or with the intent to cause the death of the infant under

circumstances, which do not constitute murder because she acted under the influence of extreme

emotional disturbance or through circumstances, not otherwise constituting the offense of murder.

She intentionally abused the infant and thereby caused death to a person 12 years of age or

or who is physically helpless or mentally helpless. In Kentucky, manslaughter in the first degree

is punishable by 10 to 20 years in prison. So it's very, very serious, you know. For that reason,

I called Abby Escobar. Abby knows a lot about this case. She is a digital journalist. She has a

very popular TikTok account called Abby Blabby, true crime and news. And not only has she been

following this case, she also knows a lot about this kind of an alleged crime. Why do I say that?

Well, here's the conversation I had with her earlier. So Abby, why do you think it took so long

to indict the Lincoln's Nelling case? You know, I really don't know. This whole time I've been

wondering is the autopsy report back because remember, the first one was inconclusive and then they

had to do further testing, but it's been months since that inconclusive report came out. So I,

I don't know how long the testing took if they just got it back, you know, within the past few days,

or if they've had that result for a while now and they just chose to sit on it. But I think it

definitely has something to do with that autopsy report and being able to prove that she did

allegedly, of course, kill the baby after he was born. So what was the biggest surprise when

you saw the actual indictment? I think the biggest surprise to me was that they chose to charge

her with first-degree manslaughter and not with murder. And it sat on there because she was going

through something about emotional distress or emotional disturbances, but they had found evidence

on her phone when they searched it that she allegedly had knowledge that she was pregnant and had

done searches regarding pregnancy. So I don't really know how, if she really knew she was pregnant,

why they would allow her to get a manslaughter charge and not murder because she was going through,

you know, some sort of emotional crisis. Well, that's surprising to me as well and I'm curious

about first-degree manslaughter. I mean, do you have any knowledge about Kentucky and how unique

that particular charge is what the elements are and why that might pertain or not pertain to

Lincoln-Snelling's situation? I really don't know. The only thing I know about it is that it's a

class B felony and if she's convicted of it, she faces between 10 and 20 years in prison.

A lot. A lot. You know, typically, well, first, were you thinking that it might actually be a

murder charge that they'd come up with in the grand jury? I did. But, you know, at the same time,

it's been so long I feel like that I was starting to feel like this entire case was just getting

swept under the rug. So even though it wasn't a murder charge, I'm glad that they're at least

charging her with manslaughter because I feel like a lot of times in these types of situations,

the women don't really get, you know, significant charges anyway.

Well, you know, here we are, what, seven months since the baby died and we're just now sort of

moving along with the process. I guess it's so difficult because there are only two people in the

room, the mother and the child, right? And so much can go wrong during childbirth. The truly can,

you know, even in a hospital, so much can go wrong. And so it's very, very difficult to determine

what exactly happened and whether there was premeditation because for murder, you've got to have

the premeditation, meaning as soon as this baby's born, I'm going to make, you know, this problem go

away. And I guess the one thing I'm interested in is the autopsy says that there was a, what a

fixation, but they don't know how. Yes. And I'm wondering how they figured that out.

I'm wondering if there was maybe bruising across his neck or chest or something,

but at the same time, you know, she told them that she passed out and fell directly on top of the

baby, but somehow they were able to determine it was not the result of a fall, you know, that it was

a fixation. So I'm, I'm really wondering how they found that out. Well, you know, you can

fixate on your own vomit or your own fluids. And I wondered just about the child's mouth because,

you know, when a baby is born, they suction the fluids, you know, the fluids out of the mouth.

And maybe that child, maybe they're considering the possibility that this child aspirated those

fluids. And that's a fixation as well. But you know, this I think is the, the quandary about this

particular case and what prosecutors thought they may or may not be able to convince a jury of.

Right. I'm really curious about the people who may be a part of this case, because she had

multiple roommates. I don't know why five comes to mind, but there were a lot of roommates,

female roommates in the house where she was living. Maybe for reading? Three was it?

And they were the, they were the ones who discovered the, the baby, weren't they?

Yeah, they were. They had suspicions that she was pregnant, because after they came back to

school that fall semester, you know, in August, after having the summer off, you know, in most

pregnancies, I feel like you grow the most in the last trimester. So that would have been over the

summer. So I heard that the, the roommates noticed a very big change and not just her belly, but you

know, you're, you know, when you're pregnant, you know, you're your face and your hips widened,

just kind of everything. And so they had suspicions that she was pregnant. And then, you know,

that morning, there was a lot of noise and, you know, just kind of odd things. And I guess after

she left her class, they got suspicious and they snooped in her room and that's when they found

the baby. Skin care experts and dermatologists have often touted the benefits of indoor humidity

as essential for healthy, glowing skin. But did you know dry air can start to harm your skin

and as little as 30 minutes? For years, many people have relied on humidifiers for better skin,

sleep and overall wellness. But traditional models, bulky, multi-prone, and difficult to maintain.

That's where canopy humidifier comes in. Recommended by leading dermatologists,

canopy is a completely reimagined humidifier designed to elevate any space, offering the ultimate

in skincare and wellness benefits. Canopies clean moisture, come that's dryness,

dullness, and fine lines while strengthening the skin's barrier and boosting the effectiveness

of topical skincare products. With its sleek design, canopy is the cleanest and easiest humidifier

on the market. With its unique technology, cleaning is as easy as popping it in the dishwasher.

Go to getcanopy.co to save $25 on your canopy humidifier purchase today with

canopies filter subscription. Even better, use code podcast to check out to save an additional

10% off your canopy purchase. Your skin will thank you. Warning, the following zippercruder

radio spot you are about to hear is going to be filled with F words. When you're hiring,

we at zippercruder know you can feel frustrated. For lore and even,

like your efforts are futile, and you can spend a fortune trying to find fabulous people,

only to get flooded with candidates who are just fine.

Fortunately, zippercruder figured out how to fix all that. And right now, you can try zippercruder

for free at zippercruder.com slash zip. With zippercruder, you can forget your frustrations,

because we find the right people for your roles fast, which is our absolute favorite effort.

In fact, four out of five employers who post on zippercruder get a quality candidate within

the first day. Fantastic. So, whether you need to hire four, 40 or 400 people, get ready to

meet first rate talent. Just go to zippercruder.com slash zip to try zippercruder for free.

Don't forget that zippercruder.com slash zip. Finally, that zippercruder.com slash zip.

Oh, I can't even imagine what that discovery would be like.

Seeing a deceased baby in a trash bag. I mean, that would be an image that I don't think I

could ever get out of my mind. And we've had babies. So, I mean, I at least have some knowledge of

what things can look like. I can't even imagine kids in their, you know, early 20s or late teens

coming across this. It's just not what they would ever expect. No, absolutely not.

So, presumably, they would be witnesses in this case, the housemates, maybe the actual

housemates who discovered the baby and maybe housemates who just heard things overnight.

Yeah, probably all of them. And I'm not going to lie to you. It was pretty early on in this case.

I actually reached out to one of her roommates and asked if she would like to talk if she would

interview with me anything. And she was very sweet. But she explained that she, they're just

so traumatized and so much shock from what they saw. She was like, I just, I'm sorry, but I just

cannot talk about it. It is true, too traumatic. And of course, I fully understood that because

that would be traumatic for anybody. Well, you listen, yeah, I mean, not just the discovery.

But then also your friend is the criminal justice system right now facing a possibility of

being locked up for decades. And this is just not, this was not on their bingo card.

No, that's another thing. You know, you think you know somebody, you know, and you think this

person would never do this. But, you know, I'm really glad that they followed through on those

suspicions because Lincoln might have came home later that afternoon or the evening. And she might

have, you know, taken out the trash, you know, because the baby was in trash bag. And nobody,

there, I mean, there's a chance that nobody would have found out had they not gone in that room.

And it makes me wonder how many times things like this happen that just never get discovered.

Lots. Trust me. I've cut this and I've cut, they think, gosh, I have to go back and count now. But

I think this might be my fourth or fifth or sixth story of young moms concealing the birth of

their children and being charged with murdering their newborns. It doesn't always happen though.

I mean, many of the ones that have covered have not been convicted of that again because

you have to be very specific again. It's beyond a reasonable doubt. It's not I think you did

something. It sure looks hinky. That's not the standard and court. And childbirth is a very, very

difficult thing when especially when you're by yourself. All the magic go wrong. When you were

alone, you're building a billacle court and the sectioning of the mouth and the the starting

of the breathing. Did Lincoln at one point say, I think I remember this, that she could hear the baby

whimper or hear the baby moving sound? Yep. She, she stayed at the hospital and she told the police that

when the baby came out that he did whimper. So she admitted right then and there that he was born

alive. I think the burden, of course, is that they had to prove that he's no longer alive because

of something that she did. But yeah, she, she admitted and it's in the police report that she told

them that he whimpered. And then she passed out about half an hour after he was born and

conveniently landed directly on top of the baby. And then when she came to, the baby was

blue and purple and she thought he was dead. So that's when she made that comment about wrapping

him up like a burrito. She said, she, I wrapped him up like a burrito and then I laid next to it.

She said, because it gave her comfort in that moment, she called the baby it. And I'm just like,

gosh, there's just such a disconnect. And that's frequent with cases like this. I feel like,

you know, with, who was the cheerleader, there was a Lexi Trevizo, there was Brook Skyver Richardson

and so many others. There's a complete disconnect, you know, and I think a Lexi Trevizo called her

maybe it as well. I think that that's probably a disassociation and normal for a lot of these young

moms, these teenage moms, et cetera. Listen, and I know people will jump all over me for

showing compassion, but unless you've walked in those shoes, it's pretty hard to judge what a young

person who's all alone is going through and what she decides to do. It's a very, I mean, it's

an awful thing. It is illegal. It is murder. It can be murder. Not saying that for this particular case,

but what's in the, what's the intent? I don't think you can describe the intent being the same

for all of these, these young women, these, these teenagers, these moms. But in this particular case,

it feels like they're going to have to really kind of establish an element of negligence,

or I don't think recklessness, because at this point, I don't think you're at a level with

manslaughter of reckless, but a negligence, meaning you had this baby. You knew you were having

this baby, and you passed out. I mean, I guess if you pass out medically, you don't have any

control over that, but I think that may be the linchpin in this case where they can say to the jury,

this child may have asphyxiated because of the passing out, and who's going to say, oh,

you'd never pass out after giving birth. Right, right. Absolutely. But I think another question

that's going to get brought up is she said that she passed out about 30 minutes after the baby was

born. So I think the question is, what was happening during those 30 minutes? Why didn't you call 911

for help? Why didn't you holler out for one of your roommates? You know, she allegedly,

for the police report, had her phone out and was taking pictures during childbirth. So your

phone was right there. Why didn't you call somebody? So I think that's going to be a very valid point

is that she did it pass out allegedly according to what she said for half an hour. So there was time,

you know, if she was feeling weak or lightheaded or anything like that, there was there was time

to get help and she chose for whatever reason not to get it. Yeah, that's going to be really hard

to explain away those 30 minutes. Although I keep coming back to look, I've been through childbirth

twice and I had the, you know, all the first world trappings. I had an epidural for the first one

before anything really got crazy and I had an epidural about an hour into the worst hell I've

ever been through. And I was also close to 40, you know, pretty well informed about everything.

I'd seen all my friends and family all having babies. So she's not me, you know, and I cannot

imagine what it would be like to be in your bedroom by yourself at this what she 2021, I mean,

just so young. Yeah. And go through this with no pain killers, no knowledge of really what's

happening. I believe that's why the phone came out because she couldn't see. And the only way

you can see I bring my phone out all the time is what I can't see. I use my phone to see for me.

And that's what I believe she may have been doing. But imagine the terror and the fear and maybe once

that relief happens that when the baby's born, 30 minutes isn't very long to sort of catch your

breath and figure out what's just happened. That's true. Yeah. That's very true. Yeah. And it'll be

interesting. If it does go to trial, it'll be interesting what the defense says. And if Lincoln

were to get up on the stand herself and tell people her side of things, I don't think it would go

to trial. I think there would probably be a plea deal offered. But I mean, who knows? It's

obviously very early still into this case, especially with this brand new indictment. Well, that's

an interesting prospect. You bring up a plea deal. What do you say? I mean, first to remand slaughter,

10 to 20. Okay. But what do you think would be acceptable to a prosecutor who, well, a prosecutor

who doesn't maybe have everything? You don't know. You don't have absolute truths of what happened in

that room. Do you think that they'd have to, they would have to accept an element of prison time

from her or no deal? You know, I really wonder because like you said, there were only two people in

that room that day. So I think, I think that even if the prosecution has this document from the

medical examiner saying that the cause of the baby's death was his fixation and that he was born

alive, I mean, people, people argue autopsies all the time. I mean, we've seen court cases where they

bring in multiple people and they all give a different cause of death, you know, different ways

that it happened. So I think that could possibly be argued. And I think that the prosecutors really,

I see them having a difficult time proving the case. So it might come down to them being like,

well, hey, let's get around something. Yeah, I could see a jury. I could see a jury

acquitting only because of a good defense attorney who says you don't know from this autopsy what

the asphyxiation was. You don't even know how this baby is fixated. It could have been anything.

It could have actually been reasperating something. And sure, maybe the child made sounds. But then

I mean, I've choked on my lemonade enough as a grown adult that I know it can be really, really

difficult. And oh, I remember my son choking on a little piece of cheerio and I nearly died

called 911 paramedics came. Oh my gosh. And they told me and I hope everybody listening right now

spreads this story far and wide. They said it is the number one call we get as paramedics for babies

cheerios. And we all think it gives you baby cheerios because they get a whole in the middle and

it can breathe bullshit. No, it's online. The opening of a newborn or even a little baby's

breathing is a good way. Their way is tiny or then like the wedge of a pencil. It's so small.

And so a tiny piece of cheerio broken off is enough for them to choke. And so

it's very, very little. You know, the breathing tube is very, very little for a baby in a droplet of

you know, amniotic fluid, whatever it is that might still be in the baby's mouth could have done it.

I mean, there's all kinds of things. Exactly. Yeah. So I think these are the conversations. And here

we are. We're not even medical professionals, which is journalists. Well, I'm a nurse. I'm a nurse.

I've been a nurse. Yeah, for 15 years. Well, there you go, friends. I got the right guest for

men. Oh, yeah. Dad's a doctor. Mom's a nurse. My boyfriend's a critical care pulmonologist. We're

all medical over here. Oh, so you know how many things can go wrong, right? Yeah. And I, yes. And,

you know, I was, I was told, and I don't remember if this was in the police report or not. But I

remember hearing that after Lincoln was detained and she asked to go to the hospital to be evaluated,

which they of course allowed because she was postpartum. I was told that her hemoglobin level was low

and that she needed to get a blood transfusion. And when your hemoglobin is low, it can cause a

number of things, including sadness of breath, lightheadedness, and passing out. So that's another

thing that the defense can really elaborate on that. Hey, she told police she passed out. And

the hemoglobin level was low. So there's a very good chance that she really did pass out.

Yeah, well, and then of course she got up and she went to cleaned up and, you know,

cleaned up and then drove to McDonald's and did all those things. So that's something that the

prosecution, of course, could argue, well, if your hemoglobin's low, it's not just going to go up

on its own. So if you passed out, then how are you able to do all of these other things? So there's

going to be very, very good and valid arguments from both sides if it ends up going there.

Well, then, you know, for that very reason. And again, I'm not weighing in one way or the other

whether they can is guilty of this or not. But I just, I just see so many things that the

defense can use and the prosecutors. But in the end, you got to convince just 12 people that,

you know, they're not experts and they're just listening to the different arguments. And then

they're told, right, reasonable doubt, not all shadow of a doubt, reasonable doubt. And that

is a really difficult bar. It is a very difficult bar. So I could see prosecutors saying, she

get a full acquittal. Yeah, we don't have enough. We don't have enough. Absolutely. Yeah. And you

know, the prosecution, they have to convince 12 people, but a defense attorney, at least to get a

mistrial, one person that's off. Yep. So. And a mistrile is a win for now. But, you know, you still

have to face the piper. But the ultimate deal is that like I had a, I had very far tangential

reference here, but my godmother was murdered and my and her husband went on trial for the murder.

And it took three trials, you know. So at, there are times though when prosecutors finally just give

up. So even a mistrial, you know, one mistrial, sure, they're probably going to give it another

go round. But if you get another one person, sometimes there's just the two and it's costs money as

well and prosecutors. Absolutely. So we can't get to the point where they just kind of throw their

hands up and they say, Hey, we don't have enough. We can't do it. Yeah. There are some things in

our favor, but there's a lot of things that aren't in our favor that we can't prove. Yeah.

Skin care experts and dermatologists have often touted the benefits of indoor humanity as essential

for healthy, glowing skin. But did you know dry air can start to harm your skin and as little as

30 minutes? For years, many people have relied on humidifiers for better skin, sleep and overall

wellness. But traditional models, bulky, multi-prone and difficult to maintain. That's where canopy

humidifier comes in. Recommended by leading dermatologists, canopy is a completely reimagined

humidifier designed to elevate any space, offering the ultimate in skin care and wellness benefits.

Canopies clean moisture, come that's dryness, dullness and fine lines while strengthening the

skin's barrier and boosting the effectiveness of topical skin care products. With its sleek design,

canopy is the cleanest and easiest humidifier on the market. With its unique technology,

cleaning is as easy as popping it in the dishwasher. Go to getcanopy.co to save $25

on your canopy humidifier purchase today with canopies filter subscription. Even better,

use code podcast to check out to save an additional 10% off your canopy purchase. Your skin will thank you.

Finding great candidates to hire can be like, well, trying to find a needle in a haystack. Sure,

you can post your job to some job board, but then all you can do is hope the right person comes

along, which is why you should try zippercrooter for free. At zippercrooter.com slash zipp.

Zippercrooter doesn't depend on candidates finding you. It finds them for you.

It's powerful technology identifies people with the right experience and actively invites them

to apply to your job. You get qualified candidates fast. So, while other companies might deliver a lot

of hay, zippercrooter finds you what you're looking for. The needle in the haystack.

See why four out of five employers who post a job on zippercrooter get a quality candidate within

the first day. Zippercrooter, the smartest way to hire. And right now, you can try zippercrooter

for free. That's right. Free at zippercrooter.com slash zipp. That zippercrooter.com slash zipp.

zippercrooter.com slash zipp. Oh, yeah. What's the story about the boyfriends? As I recall, the father

of the late child, it was not her current boyfriend. It was her ex-boyfriend. So, what is the

status of the current boyfriend at the time and the ex-boyfriend? And where do they weigh in on

all of it? So, the ex-boyfriend had no idea at all that she was pregnant. So, this was all a very

huge surprise to him to find out, hey, guess what? That girl you dated 10 months ago, nine months ago,

whatever it was. She was pregnant. She had a baby and the baby's dead. And now we're wanting to do

a DNA test and all this stuff to prove that you're the father and then come to find out you are the

father. I have heard from family members of his and they were devastated. I mean, they had

absolutely no clue. They were absolutely heartbroken and devastated. Now, the current boyfriend,

I haven't heard anything about him. I don't know if they're still together. Well, I would assume

they're not, right? I mean, she can't leave her house. She has to stay at her dad's house.

And who knows what their relationship was like and maybe the pregnancy happened before they

became an item. So, it wouldn't be that she cheated on him or anything, but you know, I know.

But I can't imagine what would be like finding out that your girlfriend was pregnant by the man

before you, which, hey, that happens, but that the baby was born and she allegedly ended his life

and then put him in a trash can and then put him in the closet. Like, I can't imagine how the

current boyfriend felt. Yeah. Hearing all that, you know, and part of me wonders if he knew that she

was pregnant because I mean, how do you? How? How could you not? You're on the same page. Like, how do you?

Yeah, I mean, no. Yeah, it wasn't one of those like cryptic or back pregnancies, you know,

where you can't tell at all. Like, she looked pregnant. Like, and I say that in the nicest way,

but like, she looked pregnant. Um, and he obviously saw parts of her that nobody else saw. So,

it really makes me wonder if he had his suspicions about her being pregnant and what she told him.

If he knew, maybe they had a platonic love affair. Who knows? Everybody's different. Yeah,

what do we know about Lincoln's family and how supportive or otherwise they are?

So, I haven't heard anything about her parents except for at the very beginning, I guess,

the dad was very sad and very disappointed in what was going on. But I was told that the mother,

um, so Lincoln's mother, baby's grandmother, was just very cold about all of it. And she had

made some comments that I think it was a funeral that they did for the baby. And I don't remember

what those comments were now. I'd have to go back and look, but I remember being told by actually

multiple people that were there. Um, that she was just very cold, had like this mean look on her

face and almost like, well, you know, Lincoln was her golden child. Lincoln was like picture perfect,

you know, pageant queen and cheerleader and just was the golden child. Um, so I don't know if

maybe the mom was like, great, now my golden child's in the spotlight and we all look bad and,

you know, I mean, who knows, but I just, I know from, I should say I know, I was told that

Lincoln's father was very sad and he was heartbroken, but that the mother was not.

It's heartbreaking all around, you know, um, like most people, not everybody who's listening would say

there's nothing wrong with having sex. Uh, accidents happen. Um, disasters can happen after that. People

can put their head in the sand and blind themselves to reality. Uh, there can be mental health issues that

that go along with that. And I don't doubt that there are a lot of mental health issues that go

along with young women who find themselves pregnant and are terrified and lost and don't know what to do.

But all the judgment falls on the girl, you know, doesn't fall on the boy who was also in that

relationship, uh, just all falls on the girl, everything, the weight of it all. So it's just something

to keep in mind as we, you know, many people pass judgment very, very quickly and, uh, we all need

to walk in those shoes before we pass every piece of judgment, not to say something. But, hey, um,

Abby, thank you because I know you're like rushing out and you've got

ahead and you squeezed us in. So I really appreciate this. Yeah, thank you for having us.

Nurse Abby. Yeah. Yeah. No, thank you. I knew this full time, but I'm a nurse.

But I'm, and thank you so much for having me on all the reasons that I love you even more. Thank you.

Yeah. So there you have it. Uh, we'll continue to watch this case because I for one, I'm with Abby.

I think there may be a deal offered in this case. I can't imagine this going to trial. It's too risky.

Sure, I can see evidence, uh, that, that could lead to a conviction, but I can also see a lot

that wouldn't. And if you're the prosecutor in this case, um, they don't like going to trial,

if they don't think they can win. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you for watching.

And don't forget, if you haven't already hit subscribe, it's, uh, it's really big for me.

I appreciate it. And remember this, the truth isn't just serious. It's drop dead serious.

Skin care experts and dermatologists have often touted the benefits of the indoor

humidity as essential for healthy glowing skin. But did you know dry air can start to harm your

skin and as little as 30 minutes? For years, many people have relied on humidifiers for better skin,

sleep and overall wellness, but traditional models, bulky, mold prone and difficult to maintain.

That's where canopy humidifier comes in. Recommended by leading dermatologists,

canopy is a completely reimagined humidifier designed to elevate any space,

offering the ultimate in skincare and wellness benefits.

Canopies clean moisture, come that's dryness, dullness and fine lines,

while strengthening the skin's barrier and boosting the effectiveness of topical skincare

products. With its sleek design, canopy is the cleanest and easiest humidifier on the market.

With its unique technology, cleaning is as easy as popping it in the dishwasher.

Go to getcanopy.co to save $25 on your canopy humidifier purchase today with

canopies filter subscription. Even better, use code podcast to check out to save an additional

10% off your canopy purchase. Your skin will thank you. Warning, the following Zippercruder

radio spot you are about to hear is going to be filled with F words. When you're hiring,

we at Zippercruder know you can feel frustrated. For Lauren even, like your efforts are

futile, and you can spend a fortune trying to find fabulous people, only to get flooded with

candidates who are just fine. Fortunately, Zippercruder figured out how to fix all that.

And right now, you can try Zippercruder for free at zippercruder.com slash zip.

With Zippercruder, you can forget your frustrations, because we find the right people for your roles

fast, which is our absolute favorite F word. In fact, four out of five employers who post on Zippercruder

get a quality candidate within the first day. Fantastic. So, whether you need to hire four,

40, or 400 people, get ready to meet first rate talent. Just go to zippercruder.com slash zip

to try Zippercruder for free. Don't forget that zippercruder.com slash zip. Finally,

that zippercruder.com slash zip. Finding great candidates to hire can be like, well,

trying to find a needle in a haystack. Sure, you can post your job to some job board,

but then all you can do is hope the right person comes along, which is why you should try Zippercruder

for free at zippercruder.com slash zip. Zippercruder doesn't depend on candidates finding you.

It finds them for you. It's powerful technology identifies people with the right experience

and actively invites them to apply to your job. You get qualified candidates fast. So, while other

companies might deliver a lot of, hey, Zippercruder, find you what you're looking for.

The needle in the haystack. See why four out of five employers who post a job on Zippercruder

get a quality candidate within the first day. Zippercruder, the smartest way to hire,

and right now, you can try Zippercruder for free. That's right. Free at zippercruder.com slash zip.

That zippercruder.com slash zip. Zippercruder.com slash zip.