BONUS | Charles Duhigg's Reading List (From Ryan Holiday)

Shopping at Whole Foods is one of the things I do on our family.

Like the grocery shopping is my job.

So I was glad to be able to do that even on vacation.

And then, you know, being here and why it was the same Whole Foods experience

we're thinking about.

But then also a bunch of regional stuff, too, that they only have at this whole foods.

We love shopping at Whole Foods because there's always new flavors and foods to choose from

whichever Whole Foods you are like, whichever Whole Foods you happen to be at.

So save on regional flavors at Whole Foods Market.

And maybe I'll see you at the Whole Foods in Austin sometime.

Three, four times a day I reach over and I grab my wife's phone and I check something.

Not social media.

I check the Shopify app because Shopify is how I see how the painted porch

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Welcome to the Daily Stoic podcast.

Designed to help bring those four key Stoic virtues courage, discipline,

justice and wisdom into the real world.

Here I'll give you this one by the way.

Oh, awesome.

This is the ghost town one.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

Oh, thank you.

You see if I can find this Chinatown book.

So this guy is actually living...

Yeah, he bought, he was my assistant.

Really?

He makes his spend his life savings on this 300 acres above the lake from Chinatown.

Oh, my gosh.

It's really cool.

So he's like restoring all these old buildings and

you know, he goes down in the mines.

Really?

Yeah.

Like, he's just that not dangerous to like...

He ordered the audio book for this at 900 feet below ground.

Oh, my God.

Whoa, it's really cool.

So he thought it was going to be this like whole resort thing

and then it became a, it's like a YouTube channel.

It's just popular as a YouTube channel.

That's really interesting.

Okay, so this is about Chinatown.

Oh, thank you.

Yeah.

Because this is awesome.

You got Robert Evans.

Yeah.

Roman Polansky, you get Jack Nicholson,

like the directions you get to go off

in studying Chinatown is pretty incredible.

Well, another thing is, again,

because I was just watching it on the plane,

it's like there's things that they do that you can't do in moot.

Like you don't understand what's going on for like the first 30 minutes.

It's kind of got a Raymond Chandler thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's basically like sells itself on attitude and like atmosphere.

It's also insane that you would like make a hit movie

about like stealing water.

Yeah.

It doesn't make any sense.

Yeah.

There's a, like the other one is like a,

to think like, um,

who frame Roger Rabbit is about the building of the 110 freeway.

That's what that movie is.

The movie is about then ripping out the street car

to replace it with a highway.

Yeah, I, you know, I did not remember that.

So like really great things have like sort of sublime

Yeah, yeah, that's really fun.

My favorite, have you read Ask the Dust?

No, my favorite L.A. book of all time,

was this, um,

clouds are struggling, writer.

He lived in punker hill like all the big buildings in L.A.

used to be these sort of Victorian mansions like San Francisco.

Yeah, they tore down to build on these big buildings.

Anyway, so he writes this beautiful novel and then the story is

the year it comes out, his publisher, uh, publishes an unauthorized,

unredacted edition of mine comp.

Well, because Hitler is like 33, so Hitler's this,

it'd be like if you published Putin's book or whatever, but

H.M.H.

like Count and Mifflin owned the copyright to mine comp.

They were Hitler's US publisher.

And so they sued and bankrupted John Fountain's publisher.

And so the book is lost to history until Bukowski

discovers it in the Los Angeles Public Library.

Really?

And Robert Town, uh, discovers it and he's the one,

and he makes a movie of it like all these years later.

Oh, this is awesome.

picked up the same copy of this obscure book that no one

Yeah, my all-time favorite writer.

And it's a novel about a writer.

It's incredible.

Oh, man, thank you.

This is going to be awesome.

Can I ask you a question about, um, because I know that you guys have all the,

like, LBJ stuff.

Yes.

So do, do people, like, because you're in Texas,

do people want to buy books about Texas?

Is that like, yeah, I mean, I've read a lot about Texas.

I think Texas is fascinating.

And those are, those are three of the, what is it, four?

How many are there?

I think those are some of the greatest biases ever.

I mean, it's just a master at work, but, um,

but I know it's also the sun, like, there's like a,

the sun is good.

Phil, Phil came out, uh, he was in Austin.

He's very, uh-huh.

Yeah, so we have some good, we have, like,

Texas-y books that are popular.

But I kind of, I, I sort of see, like,

Texas and Mississippi, you know,

with all that kind of stuff all together.

Yeah.

This is really fun.

Yeah, thanks.

Uh, so what was this before you guys?

This is like a Mexican restaurant.

Really?

This is built in the 1800s.

Uh, that was a, these are three buildings.

These were built in the 1800s.

Huh.

Uh, they've been a billion different things.

That was a barbershop most recently.

These were vacant for several years.

But like, so there was, uh,

there was a bar here.

Oh, wow.

And that's what this is.

And this is the kitchen of the restaurant.

Oh, really?

This is the kitchen of the restaurant.

So did you guys do the Renault yourself?

Like, yeah, sort of, uh, we, I mean, obviously,

we did, we didn't do it in the restaurant myself.

Oh, this is awesome.

Yeah, it was, uh, it was cool.

And then actually there was a bar from the 1800s,

uh, like a Brunswick bar in that building.

I'll send you a little bit.

But we moved it to the ghost town.

Huh.

So because it, that's when it dates, too.

Oh, wow.

We put it there.

But, uh, yeah, we're just kind of,

that tree, uh, fell down on my ranch.

So we really think and then, um, this is really cool.

And then how did you guys build the,

the, this is, I mean, I was noticing it in your studio.

This is amazing.

Yeah, uh, these are just a bunch of books.

And then some of this one, you cut a lot of them.

So it's not the full way to the book.

Oh, okay.

Stacking on top of each other.

It would be way too much.

Yeah.

So you cut a good chunk of them.

But there, this, the fireplace is built.

So they're just, they're just like,

just like arranged around them and then glued in place.

Yeah.

So it's what, uh, it's, it's 2000 books,

4000 screws, six gallons of glue.

That weighs so cool.

Yeah.

We just wanted something that kind of makes a statement.

And it's, but we'll just come in.

The first thing they want to do is take a picture in front of it.

Oh, really?

And so kind of, yeah, it's like, so if you,

I think in the world of social media, you want something

that you share about the thing that you did.

Yeah.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Two cats that run around too.

And like that, they're probably like the second most.

Who just want like things, you know?

That's super interesting.

Yeah.

Well, the thing that I like about it too is it's very, um,

like unlike most Instagram things where it's like pink background.

Like it looks actually distinct.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it's, uh, it's been cool.

And the fireplace doesn't work.

So it, it, which probably is a good thing.

Yeah, I mean, it was, it's like sort of,

you can't take it out and it doesn't work.

Yeah.

We were going to do, if you've been to the last bookstore

and downtown Los Angeles.

Yeah.

They have this cool and you walk up this five stairs

and then it becomes like, if it's a,

they, they clearly just took like a metal bar

and then drill the hole in the books

and slid it on there.

But it, you walk through like a, like an arch tunnel.

Yeah, that's cool because it's over the stairs.

So we're going to do something like that

and then the fireplace sort of being there with you.

Yeah, that's awesome.

You know, um, I want to read Cal Newport's new book.

I haven't, I haven't gotten a coffee of it yet.

Oh, yeah.

Where is it?

Slow productivity?

Yeah, is it good?

No, not just yet.

It came up right two days ago.

Oh, did it?

Yeah, okay.

He was here before, the week before,

came out, didn't have.

No, he's great.

Yeah, you guys are both on the, at the viewer hurt.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's, um, it's such a smart like,

it's such a smart way to come at productivity too.

Oh, he's the best.

His default book, I think, is incredible.

Yeah.

The range, which we're talking about.

Yeah.

He's great.

What do you, so what's, what sells it's surprising?

Like, what's the thing that's the, like, what, what do you

surprise?

Oh, that's a good question.

I like to find like, oh, this, this is probably this.

Tolstoy wrote a page of daybook.

Really?

Yeah, it was like the last thing that he wrote,

it's just a collection of his favorite quotes

and like sort of meditations on them.

And then it, it, it, it was suppressed

by the Soviets after his death.

Most of them, it's very religious.

Oh, interesting.

And so it's been, it was totally forgotten

until like the 80s or 90s.

And do people buy this?

And it's probably, like, I loved it.

So I started talking about it.

Because I, obviously, I've read it when I was doing the Daily Stoic,

just like other books in that space.

Yeah.

And then yeah, it's probably, there's, there's a handful of books

like that where like, we're like, the, one of the only places

that's selling them.

Right.

And so like, the publishers always running out.

Like, so, okay, so let me ask you,

because I am very curious, because your books,

like your books are based on so much research.

Yeah.

As opposed, and I obviously do interviews,

but not like the same way when you're doing.

Yeah, I don't know, most of the people in my books are dead.

So yeah, so how do you structure like,

like, how do you structure your time?

Because I use the interview to basically help me material,

to get my material, but also to help me know

when I'm ready to start writing.

Because I start hearing the same thing from different people.

I just, so I just, I'm usually,

I have like a theme or a topic, and then I'm reading about it,

and researching about it for a long time.

And are you keeping no cards?

Or like, what do you do?

Yeah, is it physical?

Okay.

I use like four by six no cards.

Yeah, that's what I used to.

I have a table upstairs, and they're all laid out.

Like, so I've just started.

I'm doing a series now on the Cardinal Burgess.

Like a courage discipline.

That's interesting.

Justice comes out next, and then I just started wisdom.

Okay.

That's why I had the chapter on questions.

Right.

So I wrote something down that you said about,

like, you're talking about like questions that get an answer

that's not prepared.

That you think more.

I was like, oh, that's great.

So I'll write that down in a no card.

That'll go in the tab of question things.

And as I put together that chapter,

it'll go in there probably.

But like, wisdom is so amorphous.

Like, how do you, how do you,

Well, that, so, so like, I wanted to read a book about humility.

That was what Edo was.

But then I thought, Ego is the way in.

Like, what is the thing that makes it not amorphous?

So, so the actual virtue for the Stokes is,

is temperance, which they illustrated with a person

watering down their wine.

Well, that's a super boring idea.

You can't write a book about temperance.

No one would read that.

Like, even moderation, no one would read a book about it.

Right.

Because most of what people want is the extreme.

They want to be extremely successful,

extremely rich, extremely powerful.

Like, you know, it's like, you put,

selling a book on positive,

body positivity is going to be really tough.

Right.

Because like, people actually want to be jacked.

Yeah.

Even though they need to be bought out.

They want to be skinny and they want to be jacked.

And they want to believe that if I give you the answer,

like you can do it without a chore.

You got to figure out what is the thing that's made,

no one wants to read a book about a thing

that they're not inclined to do, you know.

So, so make, I made that book about self discipline,

which is of a rendering of temperance and self control.

So, so, so I, for me, it's all about,

yeah, what is, what it, and I am still figuring it out

because I'm written the book.

Yeah.

What is the thing that makes that accessible and interesting

and then also, like, compelling to share?

That's super interesting because I think for me,

the, um, I do the same thing,

but it's the, I have to find the story.

Yeah.

Like, until I know what this, the anchor story is,

the narrative that I can't actually figure out

how to structure the chapter.

So, for me, it's what's the theme.

Like, in this case, like, I'm not, I didn't decide,

I decided to do a book on the cardinal virtue,

or a series on the cardinal virtue.

So, I don't pick the virtues.

I, what's, what do I think is the most compelling about it?

And then it's not, what's the story I have to go like,

who are the characters and what are the main stories?

So, like, the discipline book that I,

Lou Gehrig's, the physical manifestation of discipline,

Queen Elizabeth is the, like, sort of, temperament,

or emotions.

Yeah.

And then the last one I talked about,

Marx realized who has unlimited power and, you know,

uh, it's sort of fusing the physical

and the temperamental discipline together.

So, for me, it's first what's the thing

than, like, who are the, who are the guys?

Right.

That's super interesting.

Yeah.

It's the best.

Yeah.

But solving the puzzle part is fun,

and then finishing is fun.

It's the middle part that's fun.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's literally, like, the middle part of the middle,

where you're just, like, you feel like you're, like,

turning the crank every single day,

and you're like, am I getting closer?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's like, if you work on it enough,

and then you're like, oh, wait.

When I put it all together, it's decent.

Yeah.

Like, uh, yeah.

So, which stage are you at right now?

Are you at the end?

So, the justice one, like, I'm just,

I'll get galleys, like, neck.

Okay.

So, that's, like, done, done,

which is hard, it's hard to be done, done on one thing,

and then, like, deep in the shit on the other thing.

Right.

But, like, I'm, I'm, like, the intro's half written,

the first chapters have, I'm doing,

I'm like, all the easy parts.

Yeah.

And then I have, like, I'll just have to go,

I'll, I'm mostly just, like,

just trying to find a little traction here,

a little traction here.

I totally, I have this, basically, I trick.

So, what I'll do is I'll, once I do all my reporting,

and I put everything on no cards,

then I'll just sit down and I'll write my editor,

a letter explaining what this, how this chapter's gonna work.

And the letter is, like, four or five thousand words long.

I read a lot, it's sort of my job.

You can't write without reading for almost 15 years now.

Once a month, I send out an email

with my favorite book recommendations for that month,

books that I've been reading, books that I've been going through,

books that changed my life, that inspired me,

that I think connect to what's happening in the world.

And you can sign up right now at ryanholiday.net slash reading list.

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