Breakfast Wrap: The world remembers how September 11 changed the world forever

0:00There are a lot of perfectly sensible reasons to start a war. Territory, resources, pigs, wait what? You've got a pig for that pig. Yes, a pig, a pastry shop, a football game, sometimes even birds. They don't seem to be easy to kill. History is filled with some stupid wars. On the No One Suriccoming podcast, we are diving right into them, with me, Buck Vannell. Which No One Suriccoming podcast on ABC Listen, or wherever you get your podcasts. From Gadigal Country, I'm Nick Grimm in the chair for Luke Sidham Dunden. And today on the breakfast wrap, a quarter of a century on, we look back at the moment that changed the world. That was that. It's like a plane crash. It is the World Trade Center and we have unconfirmed reports this morning that a plane has crashed into one of the towers.

1:01Today, we're remembering the September 11 attacks. And we'll hear from a man who is inside one of the twin towers. There's the horrors of that day unfolded. 846 in the morning, I hear this incredible explosion. And this is American Flight 11 flank coast to coast from Boston to LA carrying 10,000 gallons of jet fuel comes crashing into a tower. Former Australian Prime Minister John Howard was visiting the US that day. We'll get his reflections as well. This powerful country had been attacked in a troteless cruel manner and the world would never be the same. We'll also speak to another former PM Kevin Rudd, all that coming up from the Radio National Breakfast Team. This is the Breakfast Wrap. It was on this day, 25 years ago, that a group of al-Qaeda terrorists hijacked four planes crashing into the twin towers in New York City and another into the Pentagon in Virginia.

2:02A fourth plane was overrun by its passengers and crashed into a field in Pennsylvania. Here, anyone catching the late-night news bulletins would have been the first to become aware of the images that were emerging from the United States. But most Australians would wait to the news the next day and its fair to say struggle to comprehend the enormity of what had happened. Let's listen back to how it all unfolded. This is a special report from News Channel 4. We're looking at a picture now of the World Trade Center and we have an eyewitness on a telephone who tells us that he has seen an airplane crash into the World Trade Center. Well, we heard this roaring engines coming. We looked up and there was a plane. Next thing you know, we heard boom. We ran up to the corner and hit right into the World Trade Center. Can you tell us what kind of an airplane is? It's gonna be a 730 shot but it'll hit the World Trade Center. It was a big, big plane. Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh!

3:03Oh! We can now confirm a second plane has crashed into the second tower of the World Trade Center. There it goes. It's going. It's going down now. It's going down now. There are collapses. Oh! Those poor people. Oh, God. Oh! The man as rescue crews began converging as people desperately tried to get out of those building some 50,000 people working the Trade Center towers here in Manhattan as they were trying to get out the South Tower collapse. Commercial jetliner crashed into the Pentagon earlier this morning, which is of course the headquarters of all the military for the United States was on fire as a result of this crash and then collapsed. Today our fellow citizens, our way of life, our very freedom came under attack in a series of deliberate and deadly terrorist acts.

4:06The victims were in airplanes, were in their offices, secretaries, businessmen and women, military and federal workers, moms and dads, friends and neighbors. About 3,000 people died in the attacks and thousands more would die in the years that followed after coming down with a range of illnesses. Sujajan was working on the 81st floor of the North Tower of the World Trade Center when one of the hijacked planes crashed into the building about 10 floors above him. These are his memories of what happened next. Star off as a clear, cloudless day in New York City and I remember leaving home early than morning, getting into the towers. Little did I know that, you know, about an hour after I got into work that day, that day would change forever. So I would work on the 81st floor of the North Tower and interestingly, my wife would also work at the World Trade Center. She used to work on the 71st floor of the South Tower and she was 4 months pregnant at

5:10that time and that day I remembered as if it were just last week, 846 in the morning. I hear this incredible explosion and this is American flight 11, flying coast to coast from Boston to LA carrying 10,000 gallons of jet fuel comes crashing into a tower. And for those of us on the 81st floor, we knew it was a plane. How else could hit you at that height because the buildings are shaking violently? But we thought it was a small commuter plane. No one thought it was a large jetliner. Let alone the fact that it was actually a terrace attack. So this wall is kept collapsing around us as we look up. There's a picture of twisted steel and cable and as the building is shaking, our faces on the carpet, I'm lying there with 28 of us, my coworker friends and I'm thinking if something is going to happen to this building, I'm never going to see my wife or I'm never going to see my parents or I'm never going to see the child she's carrying. And then we far away through that chaos, we get to the stairwell, hundreds, thousands of people joining us on that stairwell.

6:12And that's when I realized that around that time, my pregnant wife makes it to the other tower. So I'm trying to reach her through my cell phone but cell phones aren't working. And then we hear the second explosion which was the second plane crashing into the second tower. How long did it take to get from the 81st floor down to the ground in this stairwell with thousands of other people? Well, it took a lot of time. It took forever but actually it took about an hour and 20 minutes to come down to anyone's floors and we passed all these firemen policemen as we were going down and they were going up and we high five them saying you guys are the real heroes. But you know, although it took an hour and 20 minutes for me but it felt like it looked longer. Time I just stopped still. And then when I got to the plaza level, I'm still in the building. That's when I see bodies and body parts of people that I've jumped to other building. It's just a picture of destruction and then we were told go down one more level, make it to the street level from there. So I get to the concoest level of the building and I start walking towards the south tower and that's when the unthinkable happens.

7:13The ground shakes and this is now the south tower collapsing. So I get caught up with the collapse of the south tower. The 1520 people we thought we were facing death and we said, I lost prayers. I said, God, I'm going to die here. I hope I can make it to heaven and I had this piece of heaven at that moment. And then eventually I was pulled out by an FBI agent who was also there. We both told each other we're going to die because we couldn't breathe. But then we see a red light flashing to the sit and the smoke that light leads us out of the pit. And then the man says, I got to go back and get more people. He runs back and then the north tower collapsed on him. He's actually the only FBI agent who died. So both the towers of collapse, I'm out of the debris but I'm convinced my wife is gone. The building's on exist anymore. And now hours have passed and I'm on the streets. I'm in heaven, angry, confused, bitter. Well, my cell phone rings for the first time that day. And when I said, hello, it's my wife on the other side. She was late coming into work for the first time for a few minutes.

8:14By the time she got to this train, which stopped one stop before the World Trade Center, by then the north towers hit so the trains didn't go to the basement of the building, she gets out and she sees people jumping out the building. And she's all these bodies landing around her. And she sees the second plane crash into her tower. And she's thinking, I'm one of those people jumping out the building. So it was just a crazy day, a day where just a workplace, low-emond-hattern known as a financial capital of the world had turned into a war zone. And the hopelessness, the pain that people are going through, it's so hard to put in words and explain that for those who are listening to me right now. September 11th survivor, Sujo John. He worked on the 81st floor of the north tower of the World Trade Center. On a day like today, people inevitably remember the time before and the time after. And how the events of 25 years ago reshaped the world they had known and made the one they now inhabit. Here at Radio National Breakfast, we've been asking our listeners for their reflections

9:17on that day. Here are some of the stories that you shared. My first memory of 9-11 was watching television at home and suddenly the program being interrupted after the first tower began to disintegrate. It was devastating. We didn't know how to understand the experience and phone a friend who told us it was a summer bin Laden and the Taliban. We had never heard those names before. I was watching TV early before work. My wife woke up. We both sat there, mesmerized and horrified of what the world had come to. It didn't seem quite true. My children kept coming and going, don't dad. And then my wife came and said, no, you've got to come out and look at this. And as I walked out, the second airplane was going into the building. I was working for Antidear lines in the Golden Wing round in Perth. I think it was evening time. One of my colleagues came in and told us what had happened and we just could not believe it. I remember my wife's parents were visiting from the Netherlands and when the news came on, we put the TV on straight away and I remember crying.

10:20It's horrible. How radio national listeners are reflecting on the 25th anniversary of that fateful day. Well another Australian with strong memories of those events is former Prime Minister John Howard. He was on a visit to the US when it all happened. Sally Sarah began their interview by asking him how you received word of the atrocity. The day September 11, 2001, you were in Washington, DC, who told you what had happened and what did they tell you in that initial stage? It was my press secretary, Tony Aliere. I had gone to Washington to give an address to a joint setting of congress to mark 50 years of ANSLE treaty. I had been out for morning walk and when I got back, I had a discussion with Tony about what might come up at a news conference I was having in a little while and he said, oh, by the way, terrible accident in New York.

11:21A plane has hit one of the twin towers or the terrible. Anyway I thought a little more about it and went inside and was getting ready. Tony banged on the door and he said, oh put on your television set. The other plane has hit the other tower. We knew then it wasn't an accident. It was something worse and it meant that the world would never be the same. What was the situation like in Washington, DC? Because of course an aircraft also struck the Pentagon. Understand you were taken to the bunker of the White House. Amidst the shock and horror, the American reaction was calm and deliberate. My wife and our second child, Tim, our elder son had left the hotel a little earlier in the morning to go to have a look at the Pentagon. Of course it was while I was having my news conference that the plane hit the Pentagon. I'd been to the Pentagon the afternoon before and I'd met for the first time the defense

12:22secretary, Donald Rumsfeld who I grew to like a lot. It was just extraordinary. After the news conference was over we pulled back the curtains. They'd been drawn because of the clear lights and you could see the smoke rising. I was told later that my wife and son were alerted and told they had to meet me in the bunker of the Australian embassy and that's where I went and where a lot of Australians went. It was there that I had a news conference and I read out largely the letter I'd sent to President Bush who I had met for the first time in person the day before expressing horror and understanding and compassion and determination to stand with our American friends in the face of such an audacious attack. Afghanistan ended up being Australia's longest ever war and cost lives and billions of dollars. Australian forces eventually left in 2021 when the US left Afghanistan.

13:26How do you reflect on the nature of the war and the mission when it began and the nature of the war and the mission at the end of the conflict? Well there was no doubt that the attack of the 11th of September had been organized by Al Qaeda. If some have been loud and the boss of that outfit out of Afghanistan there's plenty of evidence of that and we felt that it was only right that we should join Americans in fighting to clear the Taliban out of Afghanistan. Now the Americans didn't need our military help. They didn't need anybody but they were very happy to have our help and they also had very significant help from the British and that proved to be the case in both. The longer term in Afghanistan and later on in Iraq. Look I think we did the right thing. I was unhappy with aspects of the ultimate withdrawal from Afghanistan. It did look rather chaotic at the time but the truth is that we did oversee particularly this as a tribute to the Americans.

14:27Improvements in women's education, opportunities for women and a very considerable improvement in civic life. Now not all of that has been maintained and the Taliban are now back in. There are a lot of people who are being suppressed and badly treated but overall I don't have any regrets. I think we did the right thing in going into Afghanistan. Former Prime Minister John Howard. This morning John Howard wasn't the only former PM to share their thoughts on September 11 with us. Kevin Rudd who's also a former Australian ambassador to the United States joined Salisara as well. Now the global president of the Asia Society Mr Rudd had these observations. I remember actually watching television live that day and with my daughter as the footage and the coverage went to what had happened with the first tower and then watched live the

15:28aircraft colliding or crashing into the second tower. I think at that very moment looking at it and looking at it carefully you sensed in your guts not the world at that moment had changed and so at that. Turning to your speech yesterday why in your view is Australia at risk of becoming second race in your view? My observation having lived down to the country for the last ten years is that over time what Donald Horn once described as the lucky country has over a very long period of time begun to become the complacent country and I used the term complacent carefully and that is the very hard decisions we as a nation both sides of politics, all sides of politics need to take about securing our national security in an environment where it's becoming increasingly dangerous in our part of the world.

16:29We need to face also very difficult and hard line economic decisions for the future through industry policy and ensuring that we've got growth sectors for the future of the economy and that on the real world challenges of artificial intelligence and the assaults therefore that will come from it in terms of people's personal lives, their employment opportunities but also on the upside. The things we need to do to build an AI industry in Australia to protect ourselves against rogue AI agents in the future these are the bigger questions which need to be bit and off and all sides of politics in Australia need to do that incrementalism no longer works and I believe what holds us back fundamentally is a national mindset which doesn't comprehend the level of urgency which these aggregating international and external challenges now represent the country's future. Where does that mindset come from? Something deep I think in the Australian political culture and general culture there's too much

17:31of the Shubi right made attitudes still in this country. An attitude which says new and off is good enough. As opposed to one which says we have bearing down upon us a set of national security challenges coming out about region which are unprecedented in the post-war period that this AI revolution sweeping the world is a fundamental game changer for Australia if we seize it with both hands and let's not forget the overall and continuing challenge of climate change and extreme weather events which are washing over us and which may in fact become extreme in the near future to the point where we then counting the economic cost as others are around the world. It's a mindset problem and therefore part of the reasons my address, principal reason for my address the National Press Club yesterday was to say we need to change our national psychology grasp our future with both our hands take big bold decisions not be risk a

18:36verse in particular through the ranks of the Australian public service. Former Prime Minister Kevin Rudd nowadays the global president of the Asia Society. It was in the wake of the September 11 attacks that US President George W. Bush launched his war on terror which ultimately led to the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. This morning radio national breakfast heard how it marked a new chapter for Muslim Americans who found themselves the subject of suspicion and even blame for the actions of the terrorists. The staff of Bayumi is a professor with Brooklyn College in New York. He's also the author of how does it feel to be a problem being young and Arab in America and this Muslim life dispatches from the war on terror. He shared his thoughts about the day with Sally Sarah and what happened next. What stuff are you in Manhattan on September 11th? When did you first understand that something had happened?

19:37Oh, it was early in the morning watching the news getting ready to begin my day. And initially I like I think most other New Yorkers didn't know what was happening and thought maybe it was just you know a hobby plane or something that had crashed into the Twin Towers. But pretty soon it became evident that this was a world historical event. When it became clear that the hijackers were members of Al Qaeda, can you remember how you felt and how you were reflecting on being a Muslim American at that time as to what may come? Yeah, I mean that too happened I would say you know within hours of the attack if not days. I recall the city being in a great deal of mourning including myself and a lot of other Muslim Americans that I knew. But at the same time we Muslim Americans also were beginning to have a great fear for ourselves.

20:39There was a lot of stories that began circulating amongst us that were about vigilante violence. Didn't take very long for me to know that every Arab or Muslim that I knew in the city had either been visited by the FBI or knew someone who had been visited by the FBI. So that level of deep concern and if not fear happened very quickly. What did that mean for you? It meant checking in with a lot of friends routinely. It meant knowing that I was identifiable. I remember going to a rally shortly after 9-11 and there was a Chilean news broadcast team there and they immediately found me instead of asking me what it was like to be a Muslim. I thought oh my gosh this is surprising. How do they know that I'm Muslim just by my appearance? It was actually quite troubling to me. A lot of women that I knew Muslim women who were wearing hijabs thought very clearly about whether they should take them off at that moment.

21:41So I should also say at the same time though there was a great deal of support coming from broader New York city community. New York city was then and still is today a generally progressive welcoming environment. How do you say life for Muslims in the United States now? We've seen Islamophobia has continued but also we've seen the rise politically of a number of Muslim figures including the mayor of New York. How do you view all of that? I think that in the first wave after 9-11 for the first 5, 6, 8 years there was a lot of the sense of we were responding to crises within the Muslim American community and then there became a moment when I think within the Muslim American community a sense that we had to organize ourselves instead and have more long term durable solutions. And so there became a really concerted effort to try to mobilize and to organize especially

22:45through political power precisely because there was a kind of overall sense of repression coming from the government. Those gains have achieved a remarkable success and I see the rise of someone like Zohran Nandani as being part of that and he in fact was part of the Muslim Democratic Club which is one of those organizations before he was mayor of New York. But with that success I think comes, I actually think some of the rise of this noxist, noxious, Islamophobia that we see today. Some of it is attributable to the success of Muslims in the public sphere today. It's almost a dialectical relationship. The more successful Muslims become within the United States, the more opposition they will get from loudmouth right wing populists and I think we're seeing some of that today too. Mustafa Bayumi, a professor at Brooklyn College in New York and the author of How Does It Feel To Be A Problem Being Young and Arab in America.

23:46Thanks so much for listening to all those interviews from Sally Tsar are produced by the ABC Radio National Breakfast Team. The Breakfast Wrap has been put together today by Oscar Coleman, Eddie Diamond and Brooke Young. I'm Nick Grimm. We'll be back with more stories from Radio National Breakfast next week.