Breaking Big Food | Patrick Sullivan Jr. and Ashley Leroux Sullivan | ep 83

Welcome back to the Brit Mayor Show. I'm your host Brit Mayor and here we talk about culture,

politics, faith, and health and the stories that matter most to you in a world that is incredibly

noisy. We cut through the noise to bring you the most important stories. Today we are diving into

an incredible conversation about reclaiming our health from a corrupted food system.

My guests today are Patrick Sullivan, Jr. and Ashley Leroux Sullivan. They are the powerhouse couple

and they are so sweet. Behind Jigsaw Health and they are the executive producers of the powerful

documentary Breaking Big Food, which you have to watch. It is so, so good. This film exposes

how Big Tobacco hijacked our food supply in the 1980s, engineering addictive,

ultra-processed foods that have fueled obesity, diabetes, autoimmune issues, and more.

But they don't stop there. They spotlight inspiring local David's who are fighting back against

these goliaths with clean, real food. Patrick and Ashley are going to share what they are doing,

their journey, and how you can also reclaim the health of your family and how together

we can break Big Food. You're going to love this conversation. Please like,

subscribe, and share wherever you are listening, and let's get started.

Thank you so much for joining for this really important conversation. You guys are on mission

to expose Big Food, Big Food, and not only that, but your leading by example,

in how we break up Big Food. I'm just so excited because it's one of my favorite topics. It's

good, healthy food, and you guys are leading the way. First, I thought it would be really important

to just define what is Big Food. Well, I think we can all know it when we see it. It's the packaged

food that doesn't exactly look like what grandma and grandpa would have ever eaten.

It's a great answer, Patrick. That is a really good answer. So it's not like the cute little

microgreens that you get and the beef and chicken. This is something totally different.

That is the kind of food you want to be eating, not only because it's healthier for you,

but you're helping most likely to support local farming. And local farming is really important

for the environment. It's really important for the economy. It's really important for food safety

in America. So we in America started with real food. And then at some point, there was a shift

into the dominance of Big Food. So why don't we walk through where everything went very, very wrong.

Well, one of the things we learned in the making of breaking Big Food was three important facts.

In the 1980s, Big Tobacco was finally getting rolled up, let's say. As a result, Big Tobacco

was like, well, what are we going to do with all this money? How about we buy some food companies?

In 1985, RJ Reynolds, the makers of camel cigarettes purchased an abysco for $5 billion,

billion with a B. In 1989, Philip Morris, the makers of marble cigarettes, they purchased

craft food for $13 billion. And that's just two examples of some of the largest M&A transactions

that happened during the 1980s with Big Tobacco buying food companies. And wouldn't you know it

by the 1990s? Big Tobacco controlled about 40% of the American food supply.

What could go wrong, right? I mean, that's it's shocking. And I think there are a lot of people

right now who are saying, wait, what? What happened? So why? Why did this happen? Why did Big Tobacco

go in? I know you said no pun intended. They were rolling up. But why did they move into the food market?

Well, it's somewhat speculative. It is covered by Callie Means, who's featured in our documentary.

And he talks about how when the surgeon general was essentially putting the kibosh on, okay,

no more of this four out of five doctors choose camel cigarettes.

Sigarettes are dangerous. We're going to let the American people know. Big Tobacco had this

glut of money and a need to find something else. So they kind of turned themselves to, well,

what can we do with these food companies that make these interesting food like substances?

Could we make them cheaper? Could we make them more addictive? Could we make them brighter

color more colorful? Now, is this where the term ultra processed comes in when we're talking about

food? Is this the the connection for the audience who's thinking, okay, we're really trying to

peg it. What is big food? Is this where we get the term ultra processed from?

Well, interestingly enough, I know RFK Jr. the head of HHS has been talking about we will have

from the federal government a definition of ultra processed food. I believe he said

by April, which is according to my clock next month. It'll be very interesting. Yeah,

it'll be very interesting to see how they define it because what that could lead to is potentially

front of label packaging that has sort of scores or like a red light, yellow light, green light kind

of thing. But if you think about what happened with Big Tobacco in the 80s, what they were really

fighting against was labeling. They didn't want to have to put black box warning labels on their

cigarettes because they were worried, oh, we'll lose customers that way. We'll lose customers if

they know what this product really does. And here we are, history doesn't ever repeat itself,

but it does seem to rhyme. It's really interesting actually what you're saying because if ultra processed

food that in the definition there requires a warning for the American public, then it's like,

well, Big Tobacco was able to skirt this long, but now this could deal a huge blow. And that would

also parlay over to subsidies. And this alliance that we have with government subsidizing

big food, which has been a huge issue. Why don't you guys talk a little bit about that? This alliance

between government and big food. Well, and in particular, the SNAP program, the supplemental

nutritional assistance program, food stamps is what we closely, I was on I'm I was a food stamp

baby. So back in the 90s, my mom was a single mom. And it was before they had the debit cards that

are kind of innocuous. My mom had like the bright colored food stamps. And I remember being I mean,

it gave me grit. I was like raised in the hood. So I'm thankful for it. But I remember being

in the front of the supermarket and her having to pull out these ridiculously like glow in the dark

colored food stamps to buy our food. So I'm wall aware of the limitations of what you can buy and

can't buy with food stamps. Well, that's just part of the thing over the years. The definition

of what you can buy with food stamps has changed. And one of the things again to refer back to

Callie is he's talked about how somewhere between 10 and 15% of the entire SNAP budget has gone

to pay for sugary soda drinks. Wow. That's not necessarily what we the taxpayers want to help

our neighbors who are in need purchase. That's not nutrition. That's not right because it's not

nutrition. And and what your mom was buying for you in the 90s was still probably a lot less

processed than what's on store shelves today. Yeah, I actually I feel like and it could have been

my mom just be asking us kids when we wanted the sugary stuff. But I feel like she would say

there were certain things that we just we simply couldn't buy like there were boundaries put on

healthy foods and then what wasn't healthy couldn't be covered with food stamps. I don't know

where that all stands right now. But I do want to get to the core of it that it's important for

the audience to understand that there is an unholy alliance between our government subsidizing

big food, which is largely backed by these giants who used to be the tobacco giants and just

shifted into big food, which to me is it's extremely impactful. Kelly means has a quote in your

documentary, which I would recommend everybody watch it, especially now that breaking news,

the Basharat season is no longer going to air. I didn't even know that that was still a thing,

but it's just that news just broke. So you have time now to watch this documentary. And I watched

it. It is so so good. It's a short watch, but it's really it lays out everything that's gone wrong

in American food. But this is what one of the quotes I pulled from Cali. He said big food

manipulates big government leading to garbage in our grocery stores, which may in fact be the

culprit lurking behind the horrifying health statistics in America over that same time period,

which would be the last 40 years. What do you guys make of that? I mean, amen, amen. Yeah, I mean,

if history has shown us anything at all, it is that we cannot rely on government to make

things healthy for us. Amen. Amen. Okay. So that gets us big food, big pharma, big anything.

Thank you, big pharma, because this is where it all comes full circle. We are finally realizing

I feel like the curtains kind of lifted and we've seen behind the to the wizard behind the

machine that something is very wrong in modern America. And there are a lot of these large

conglomerates who have risen to power without us really realizing it. We think, you know,

that the government cares about our health. Well, Dave shielded the pharmaceutical companies,

and then the vaccine schedule has exploded since the 80s when that pharma shield was put on.

Now we're realizing, oh my goodness, there's an alliance between big ultra processed food and

these tobacco giants. And how is that? How is that health? So I think we're starting to see behind

the curtain. One statistic that you mentioned, Patrick, that I just want to reiterate is that

70% of snap dollars, part of a roughly 100 billion dollar program for the lowest income,

15% of Americans. That was me. No shame in that game. Go toward ultra processed foods,

effectively subsidizing junk food on a massive, massive scale. Now in connection to that,

there are nearly 10,000 chemicals allowed in US food under the quote-unquote generally recognized

as safe, self-approved loophole, many of which are banned or restricted in European countries

and Canada, but our tax dollars are paying for our most vulnerable to consume that.

Something seems very wrong. It is very wrong. In the late 90s, I believe it was, the FDA was just

overwhelmed trying to keep up with approval of, let's call them food chemicals. And they allowed

something known as grass, GRAS, which stands for generally recognized as safe, essentially enabling

industry to self-police and self-declare. Well, we think this petroleum-based food die, we think it's

safe. So no longer was the impetus to prove safety on the companies that made the products. Rather,

it was on the, really, the trial lawyers to prove harm. And that's very difficult. What's

interesting. And it takes a long time too. We've won that. Exactly. It takes a long time. And

unfortunately, a lot of damage can happen during those years or decades. I was going to give a shout-out

to the food babe who has posted quite a few different memes on Instagram and X about, you know,

but I ate that as a kid. And I'm fine. And I'm fine. And, you know, referring to like

gatorade from the 1980s. Or fruitloose. Or fruitloose. Even McDonald's French fries, you know.

And showing the ingredients then from 30, 40 years ago versus the ingredients now. And showing,

wow, the list got a lot longer. And also food babe pointing out that the fruitloose sold in Canada

in New Zealand and Europe sure are a lot more dull looking than the fruitloose sold here in America.

Ashley, why is that? Oh, well, they're not allowed to use red dye 40 for one. They're, you know,

coloring their foods with beet like beets and, you know, carrots and things like that turmeric.

Meanwhile, America's allowing red dye 40 in foods because it's generally recognized as safe Ashley.

But not in cosmetic when they outlaw that because it causes cancer. It's so fascinating.

And I think that this is where Cali means has been so helpful because he does come from the lobbying

background. So he's able to pull back the curtain even on that and show how powerful these lobbies are

who have been really protecting our food becoming just garbage toxic poison that would make those

European countries completely shudder if they were to come here and see what we are feeding our

school children. It's it's appalling. I want to shift into asking you guys specifically about

this documentary that again, I think everybody should see breaking big food. So good. But I want to

shift into knowing what you guys put out in this documentary and some of what we just talked about.

How do we break big food? It seems like a pretty monolithic goliath task to try to break up something

that is so heavily lobbied and it's protected by so many unholy alliances. So how do we how do we

break it? The only way I can think of is to vote with our dollars. So I don't literally start

supporting local stop spending money with the big process food companies stop buying the crap.

Just when when they stop seeing the dollar bills roll in, they change their capitalists. They

understand they're going to change their methodology to serve where the demand lies. If you can't

afford all organic, which is totally understandable, it is expensive, especially right now. Try to go

for the things that are on the dirty dozen fruits and vegetables that have like the bananas that

have a peel that can protect the fruit avocado, things like that. But also I think people, Americans

need to look a little bit closer at the budget and say, is there anywhere I can carve out where I

used to be spending money on fruit snacks and I used to be spending money on maybe Doritos or

these protein shakes or whatever that are quote unquote healthy that really if you read the

ingredient labels aren't. And how do I transfer some of that budget more to the whole foods?

And I think people might be surprised. I mean, spend a little less at Starbucks too, right?

Okay, okay, shot taken. Okay, what are the what are the most offensive appalling foods that I

am currently purchasing for my family that you would say that is where you need to make the shift?

Are you buying lunchables for, you know, sending your kids to school? Are you buying fast food?

The fast is convenient, but it's hardly food. And probably there are other things along those lines

that if you look at, okay, if we embrace that food is one of the things that like all animals need

to survive, if you turn it from sort of live to eat to live to a live to eat and you start to

kind of fall in love with the process of, huh, what could I do with these fresh tomatoes?

What could I do with these foreign fresh eggs? And really almost simplifying your diet, simplifying

the different kinds of foods that you're buying to be, let's just call what RFK has said,

eat real food. And you can do a lot with ground beef and it's when you're you're prioritizing

these nutrient dense foods, you eat a lot less of it. Your body says, okay, I'm satiated, I'm good,

I've got nourishment here. So even if you can't do the organic grass fed beef or whatever,

whole foods are still way better than ultra processed foods, just do the best you can.

Yeah, I agree, I think that's good. You featured a ton of really interesting characters in this

documentary and I want to talk about a couple of them that really stood out to me. I pulled a few

that I just I fell in love with. So one of them, and I want to talk to you guys about something

interesting that this cowboy said, Tim Peterson, Arizona grass fed beef company shout out to them.

He raises grass fed beef from start to finish on pasture. And I think in the documentary,

it's like millions of acres, which is so crazy that he's got it. Yeah, they have over a million

acres of pasture land. Yeah, it's amazing. I want to go see it, but he was telling you in this

documentary that his meat supplies higher nutrient, dense quality meat directly to local businesses

and consumers, but there are no shortcuts. And he was talking about how often with the cows on his

millions of acres, he won't see them for six months. They're just out there grazing and doing their

thing. And then eventually one of the cowboy season and checks on him is this the way of the future?

Are we going to see a radical shift from big food where you have cows jammed together without

ever seeing daylight and injected with Lord knows what back to where we started, which was the

wild wild west, the cowboy spirit of rate. They were the backbone. The cowboys were the backbone

of early America. Do you think we're going to see a shift now that the work that you guys are

doing, Callie means RFKJ is exposing what a disastrous experiment big food has become?

I mean, I think old is the new new. I would love to believe that as Ashley was talking about,

we as consumers from the bottom up really do make a difference in the marketplace by how we vote

with our wallet. And certainly we need changes from the top down. We do need new regulations in

place. We need petroleum based food dies to be outlawed. And in fact, that's happening. RFK

junior is making big strides there, but really the biggest changes happen when a bunch of

David's overcome the Goliaths by voting different with our wallet. And I totally believe that

industry that farmers that food providers will be there to fill the void because the market

hates a vacuum. And one of the things that we have found at our own little firefly organic coffee

and market is providers now finding us like, oh my gosh, I can't believe you've created this

amazing coffee shop. I bake organic sourdough bread. Are you could I shop? Could I have this

here? I make what's the Arizona churn culture? Oh, organic breastfed butter. Amazing, you know.

And they're like, we have been, we it's like the middle man that brings the suppliers and meets

them with the consumers that are like looking to us, firefly to be a filter of these providers.

So in the documentary, one of the other people that we've that we featured was Amber from

Ethelaine Bakery who got her cottage license and started to bake this delicious organic sourdough

bread. And one of the things she makes for us is these organic sourdough cinnamon rolls that

are crazy. Crazy good. And becoming world famous. And what we have found is as our demand is like

growing, Amber can't keep up. But what's great is another supplier that also has these amazing

organic sourdough English muffins. She's like, oh, I would love to provide for you guys. So it's

this great like ecosystem that's forming. And part of the documentary, our goal was to inspire

this kind of activity across all of America because we really need to rebuild the food system

from the ground up on a local level. Yes. That's one of my notes that I wrote while watching this was

this documentary, what you guys share. And we're going to get into exactly what you are doing

because you didn't just cut a cool documentary. You're actually living what you are preaching,

which is so cool. But I wrote down that your documentary is so empowering rather than defeatist.

You aren't saying we're waiting on the government. We're waiting on anti-trust action.

You are already taking this from the grassroots and saying this actually is the path forward.

And this is how we can bring about change as we hope and push for proper legislation and for

the government to get their act together, which there's a lot of hope with RFKJ. You know,

we have to hope he's the best shot we've ever had. But you guys are actually doing something about

this. So I do want you to share with us during your documentary. You weren't just shooting a

documentary and meeting all these amazing people. But you guys were also building a mini market and

a coffee shop that I cannot wait to visit. So share what your idea was in creating this and how it can

be replicated, how this isn't just a standalone one off. But this actually could be a way that we

break big food. Well, actually, why don't you talk about the mold test? So right as we started to

begin to work on this documentary, I had done a series of health tests for myself, one being a

toxin test. I wanted to see what environmental toxins my body was having a hard time detoxing.

And surprisingly, three different types of mold showed up on that test. I was shocked. I was like,

I don't even eat blue cheese. Like, where is this coming from? And it said from food derived

sources. So it wasn't like something I was breathing in. So as I went down the rabbit hole, I realized

one of my favorite consumable items, coffee is one of the most one of the biggest culprits of mold

and mycotoxins because the sheer fact that it's usually grown in very human conditions. So

as I went down that rabbit hole, I said to Patrick, we have an afternoon latte habit and I really love

going to a cafe to have my afternoon lattes. And I really don't know if the coffee that we're

consuming is mold for your not, you know, this could be part of the issue. And so I said, why don't we

just open up our own? Because that's what every normal person does. Why we should just open up

our own and do all the tests and find some non moldy coffee. That's what everyone does. Exactly.

Well, as owners of a nutritional supplement company, we've been third party testing our supplements

for years. Like it's always been a core value of ours to make sure we triple test everything.

And I said, well, let's find a coffee we love. Let's make sure it's USDA certified organic. It's

shade grown, it's specialty grade, single origin, all those things. But then we're going to go the

extra step and we're going to send it away and make sure that it has no mold. Mycotoxins heavy

metals because people need educated on this as a real like it's an issue, right? And they don't

understand why they feel so crappy. I mean, there's so many people that feel crappy. And if this can

help solve a solve for some of that, right? It's all of a piece of someone's puzzle. I felt so inspired

to do so. And so we started to build out the Firefly organic coffee shop. And as we were

interviewing places like Good Living Greens and Fountain Hills, Jill and Jeremy that have this

micro market where they're basically sourcing from all these local farmers that got raw milk,

they've got grass fed beef and farm fresh eggs. And it's such an amazing resource for the community.

We were like, okay, what if we made it coffee shop and market and we can carry these things as like

in another part of town, it's basically another community, you know, it's someone in Arizona,

but it's like, I feel like all these little communities need these micro markets so they can

easily get them, right? It's the convenience that we're trying to provide this good food to.

It's the access is it can be a barrier to entry in all of this because as a mom, you're like,

I'm already busy. I'm not running for me out to Julian an hour away to pick up my beef. And then

I'm going to have to go over here to pick up my sourdough. And then it's just not convenient.

So I'll just go to the supermarket, you know, or I'll go to Costco. But what you're doing is you're

like, well, this is actually a way that we can pull it all together under one roof. We're going to

highly vet everything that we carry. I wanted to ask you about that, Ashley, is the the vetting

process? How do you vet what you bring in so that moms like me don't have to go in and get dizzy

like we do at Costco trying to read and figure everything out? Well, I personally vet every single

thing that we bring into the shop. I try to go local as much as possible. But at the very least,

the nutrition labels aren't going to have seed oils or gums or weird chemicals or preservatives

in them. It's like the cleanest things I can find that are like unique, right? We've got like a

simply sweets, like a gummy that has like, it's actually really clean label. So people can go,

oh my gosh, I can actually give my kids these little candies once in a while or whatever. And, you

know, it's actual free. Yes. So it's just very unique items that are just very clean label.

I love that. And I do think that we're seeing a trend in this direction. There's a little

outdoor market that's just up the street for me. And they have a very similar philosophy.

And so when I go, I know that they've already pre-vetted everything. Everything is local. You

know, it's not going to come from overseas. And it's up to the standards that I would choose for,

you know, if I had to go out and find everything. The one thing that keeps going through my mind,

though, is the cost. So walk me through how as this replicates, and I think you cover it in your

documentary a little bit, is as this idea replicates. And we see more and more of these mini markets

pop up, which is happening. How does that actually bring the cost barrier down on real good food

and take the money away from big food? Well, a couple of things. One, I think that, you know,

economics always works. When there is demand, supply will find a way to reach it. And one of the women

that we feature in the documentary, Tiffany Lilly, she started with one chicken in her backyard.

Oh, she was hilarious. She loves those little chickens. Everybody loves the chicken lady.

Yeah. And she started as an experiment with her daughters. They were homeschooled. And she's like,

okay, we'll, you know, figure out what it's like to raise chickens. Well, now her farm,

inspire farms. Her tagline is we inspire farms one backyard at a time. And the reality is, as

we get closer to our food and start caring more about our food, you'll see, I think, a natural

progression of people saying, wait a second, you mean I could make money selling farm fresh eggs

from my backyard from chickens that are basically eating clean nutrition. Okay, that's interesting.

So I like to think that the big screen TV is hopefully a good model for what will happen

economically. If you think back 20 plus years ago, a big screen TV was $15,000 or whatever,

some kind of outrageous, but it was such a cool thing that everybody wanted to have. And

rich people started buying them, which created economies of scale, which created a market.

And now a big screen TV is like $500 at Costco. So I really believe in market forces that will fix the

current cost problem. And I also think that we will begin to see more changes with big food,

because they are capitalists as well. They are responding already to seed oil as an issue,

where you're starting to see like Doritos in avocado oil, yeah, with no food coloring, with no food

coloring. And you're like, okay, they are paying attention. Why? They're public companies. If they

have a decline of 10% in revenue, they will lose their minds. And if we the consumers are voting

different with our wallet, we will force them to make more changes. The other thing I think that

comes up over and over again is that in the cost discussion is the fact that

food that is ultra processed is artificially cheap, because it's basically all on the basis of

subsidized corn. So in the US Farm Bill, we spend, I don't know how many billions of dollars,

subsidizing farmers to grow corn and soy, the bulk of which is used for basically ingredients,

either feed at feed lots or high fruit dose corn syrup and other ways, other things they can

derive from that corn. So fast food or other ultra processed food is cheap only because the

government currently has their thumb on the scales making it cheap. So I also have hope that at

a higher level, the government will potentially look at some subsidies for farmers who want to

invest in converting monocrop farms, you know, where they were growing soy or corn into

regenerative organic farms, and a shout out to one of the documentaries that inspired us,

the biggest, the biggest little farm, which came out in about 2017. And it really shows this

amazing transition that this, you know, family went on taking monocrop land over the course of

seven years to regenerative organic where, where it's like now it's nature working together

in symbiosis to create food. Yeah, you know, it's interesting. As you're talking to, I think

something has shifted over the last few years where we, we are such a fast-paced society,

but there has been some sort of a slowdown, even Gen Z data showing them pulling off of online

activity. They're not wanting the short little tweets anymore. They're wanting to get back into

classics. It's just interesting that something is happening culturally that is very significant,

where they're, I've said this before, my producer and I were talking about it, like a rebellion

against the machine. There's always a rebellion against the machine, right? Well, the machine right

now is this unholy alliance with all these major corporations at the behest of our government

and making us feel safe. And so you can keep your fast, busy little lifestyle, but you're really a

hamster on a wheel. And the rebellion against that is the slow movement, the getting back into

the classics, not wanting the, the short tweets, wanting a bigger attention span, wanting more value

in the hours that we have. Even goes into, we don't want to outsource our health anymore. We want

to take control and be stewards over our own health. We don't want to just shortcut it, you know,

and oh, we'll just go to the doctor real quick and get a vaccine and call it today. It's like,

no, we want to actually look at food as medicine. And what can I eat that will provide the best

longevity for my, it's just, it's interesting that there's something happening back. Yeah. Yeah.

And I think that it's a revolutionary moment for us. Yeah. Unconstitutional taxation has always

met the same response when power reached into pockets without consent. Americans gathered by

candlelight, read the fine print and chose refusal. Laws that were meant to justify theft were torn

apart. Receipts were burned. Cargo was thrown into water while tyranny stood on the dock,

demanding obedience that it no longer had. I am so excited about this new candle by resistance

candle taxation is theft. You can light this candle in the spirit of that rejection. And as a

reminder, that theft doesn't become moral because it wears a seal. I love the quote by Frederick

Bostier. When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men, they create for themselves a legal

system that authorizes it. This little candle is our rejection of taxation that has become theft.

Go grab this candle at resistancecandals.com. Taxation is theft has a really nice ring to it.

And grab a few so you can give them as gifts. Resistancecandals.com and use code rooted wings.

At Firefly, I would say the single largest demographic that we see are Gen Z young moms.

And it really gives me a lot of hope for the future.

Oh, that is so hopeful. What has the response been since opening you open Firefly a few months

ago? What has the response been? Yeah, it's been incredible to see the way that the community has

responded and supported us actually. It's like when people walk in and they look at the things that

we have on the shelves and they look at the mold free coffee and the organic milks and all the

things that we have. They're like, are you kidding me? This is what I've been looking for and dreaming

about. Yeah. And I've found it and thank you for understanding and seeing me. Thank you for

being my people. You know, it's amazing how many health influencers have come in and done

amazing reels for us to help us spread the word. I mean, we didn't even ask. Like, we haven't

spent any money on advertising. Wow. And somehow in this weird little nondescript office park,

we've got like this, like just thriving community of people that are that come in all the time.

They're regulars and they tell their friends and they're so enthusiastic about it. It's beautiful

to see it. What you guys have also done that I think is noteworthy is you've created community.

You haven't just created a spot where you can go pick up some groceries. You've actually created

a community vibe where people can come and they can bring their friends and then they can also

shop for some really good high quality food to bring back home. And even that is like, we're

just going back to the basics where you know your neighbor, you know your community, you know,

you're not just on Instacart, grabbing some stuff real fast because it's cheap and affordable.

One thing I wanted to ask you guys to cut out for our audience and really explain it is

the idea of beef because beef is such a super food. And this was covered in your documentary

that you can actually buy like a quarter cow, a half cow, and it's not like a real living cow.

If this is like the meat, you can buy it. It's not a bet. But there's this movement and I've

done this. So you can buy like a quarter of a cow and then you get all the cuts and all the good

stuff. It's all packaged and it ends up in a deep freezer. So it's there for you ready to go.

And then you can pull it out and make meals as you go throughout the months. But how this is

way more affordable than going to the grocery store and buying the cheap meat. You can actually

buy regenerative pasture raised high quality beef for less when you buy it that way, then going

to grocery store and getting cheap cuts. Yeah, buying it in bulk, right? We're all sort of aware

of that. You know, you're saving the producer on packaging and on shipping and refrigeration and

one of the great people that we featured in Breaking Big Food was AJ Richards and Brooke Ens,

the co-founders of FromTheFarm.org. And they like to describe it as like Airbnb of farms,

where you can find from a directly from a farmer a quarter cow or a half a cow. And when you're

buying it up on a per pound basis in a large bulk quantity, you're paying actually less than what

you would spend at the grocery store. Now, you are going to need a place to store that beef. So

you might have to buy, you know, a couple of hundred bucks on a freezer where you can put in the

garage. So worth it. Yeah, it's made a life life changing for me to have a second cheap freezer

in the garage. It's made a huge difference. Yeah, you we bought one on Amazon. They they delivered it.

We plugged it in. Next thing, you know, easy peasy. Yeah, no, I think that it's it goes along the same

lines as what we were talking about, you know, how do we forward, you know, this to eat this way? It's

at first, you kind of get sticker shop because you're like, wait, how much is a half a cow? And then

you're like, all at once, you know, it. But if you actually do the math, it does save you money over

the year. So it takes a little bit of extra time to maybe budget for it. But, you know, if you just

pair down the things that are non-essential, like the foods that really aren't nutrient dense

and you prioritize the things that are. And I think you'd be surprised what you actually can budget

for when you just pair it down. And you'd be surprised how many meals you can do with ground beef

as the the star protein. And ground beef is phenomenal for you. It's a super food. When I was going

through infertility issues before my first, I was on like an almost vegan-ish diet. I thought

it was really super healthy. And when in desperate, it was my last Hail Mary before we went into like

full on trying to figure this out medically. So when visited an nutritionist and she asked me my

diet and I told her what we were doing. And she was like, I'm not going to see you back again

until you're eating eggs and red meat. Like give yourself a month on that. And I was pregnant

right away. And this was after six months of just trying and trying. And after all, it's not so

romantic. Or you're like, why? But yeah, it was, I believe my food was really preventing me from

being able to carry a healthy pregnancy. So it's fascinating just to see the way that food is

designed to be medicine and to keep us healthy. And no wonder why the government would come in and

create an unholy alliance to keep people sick that then hands them over to the pharmaceutical

industry. It's like I said, it's just this unholy alliance. Okay, I want to ask you guys for

families who are listening to all this. And they're thinking, okay, give me some direction

where do I start? I want to, I'm all in. I love what you guys are talking about. I understand

that it has been captured in terms of what I see at the grocery store. But where do I start? How do

I begin this process? I always like to recommend that you start learning how to read a nutrition label.

I think educating yourself on what ingredients you really need to avoid as much as possible is a

great place to start. We actually created a resource that dirty doesn't ingredients to avoid

that are the most commonly found in your salad dressings and your sauces, your hummus,

your chips, the everything. What would it be? Give me like your top five. What are the top

offenders that we should be avoiding? Well, I'm just going to go to break that big food.com

right now and download the PDF. It's been a while since we've created this sheet. I can't

remember exactly what it is. But the good news about this sheet sheet is you can download it.

You don't have to put your email. You don't, we don't ask you for anything. It's literally

just a free resource that you can download, put it on your fridge, and then, you know, have it

to reference. And you'll start to learn as you go along. But high fructose corn syrup is one

of the top. I mean, they love to sneak that in. Artificial sweeteners, superlose,

aspirate, sweeten low, all those things that are like, oh, it's sugar free. If it says sugar free,

red flag goes up in my mind. Usually it's going to be a cheap gut destroying sweetener that is

just absolute garbage. Artificial colors, anything with a yellow five or red die 40. Stay away from

anything with color in the name is anything to number. Yes. And then, you know, look out for

natural flavors. Those can be tricky. I think sometimes, sometimes they're fine, but they don't

actually have to disclose to you where the natural flavors really come from. So I don't really

take a chance with it. I tend to stay away from the specifically savory foods. Yes. So savory

foods with natural flavor almost certainly use MSG monosodium glutamate, which is that snuck in

under the natural flavors. Correct. Of savory foods. Yes. Wow. I didn't know that. Yeah.

Carriguing and that's another big one. That's an emulsifier. And then all the gums, like, you'll

find it's especially like ice cream and stuff. I'm like, why are they putting these in ice cream?

It should be like three and four ingredients. But then you've got like three types of gums in

there. And you're like, it's just reefs have it on your gut. I mean, there's it's no wonder why

people are walking around with so many gut issues. And these types of ingredients are really a big

contributor to that. I think that's great that you guys have that little cheat sheet. So a mom can

even take that when she goes to the grocery store, you know, and just have it right in front of her,

so she knows what to avoid. That is extremely helpful. I, one of the things that I have done

for my family. And then I want to ask you guys what your plates look like currently. What's your,

what's your average meal like? But one of the things that was life changing for me. And I've shared

it before, but I think it's worth bringing up again, was we bought into the West and A price

style of real traditional eating when I was having infertility issues. So that would have been like

13, 14 years ago. And it was very complex. I mean, we went into the gaps diet and then from that

reset, I was staring down the barrel of all these recipes that were so intense and took so much time

and I would labor in the kitchen. I never left the kitchen. And it was overwhelming and took so

much time. Well, a few years ago, I don't know, as something broke inside me in a really good way.

And I created this framework, which has served us so well over the last few years. And I call it

deconstruct the plate. And I throughout all the recipes, I got rid of all of the Pinterest

boards and all of the fancy reels that showed impossible recipes. And I just broke it down to

a really high quality protein that's nutrient dense regenerative, a good vegetable that is

in season. And then some sort of a good healthy carbohydrate. So we'll do rice or I'll have some

potatoes from the local farmers market, whatever is in season. And then we kind of mix it up with

fun sauces that are really easy to come by that include like a few handful of clean ingredients.

That has served us. It has been life changing. So well, it has given me so much time back.

My family never complains that they eat the same thing more than once, even though they do

shocker. You know, and then I'll usually do like a big meal for dinner. So I'll do ground beef.

Like what Patrick was saying, you know, a bunch of ground beef. And then in the morning,

so that'll be for dinner over rice with some salsa. And then in the morning, I'll throw it with

some eggs and some sliced avocados and call it a day. And then I can pack it with my husband for

lunch with like a hummus. And he's he's so happy. So I think that for moms who are thinking that

this can be really overwhelming, it doesn't have to be. You can deconstruct the plate and you can

make it really simple. But I want to know what your guy's food food life looks like.

I mean, I think that what you just described as brilliant, it's really very close to how weed,

I mean, it's almost identical. We kind of rotate the same, you know, six meals every week.

You usually go out to dinner once a week or something like that. But it is always centered around

a high quality protein. And yeah, we do a lot of organic white rice or potatoes or good quality

sourdough bread. Yes. And if we don't get sick of it, I look forward to stir fry night, you know,

and figuring out, and I don't just of course buy any stir fry sauce. I look at the labels or I

make my own concoction and it doesn't take much just to flavor it a little bit. And it does,

it's so freeing once you just kind of get rid of the clutter of like, I don't need all these

sauces. I don't need all these dressings. Like let's just get back to like the grass bed butter,

the olive oil, you know, and the food just let it shine for what it is.

Breakfast is also go ahead. Go ahead. I want to hear what your breakfast is.

All right. Well, I'm going to say breakfast is pretty darn simple. Uh, it's eggs.

Usually four two for her two for me, but then I usually get some of her eggs.

And then we like, uh, what's the brand of the kabasa that we get?

Uh, we like Peterson. Yeah, it's good. What is this kabasa? What is kabasa? It's like, um,

kind of like a Polish sausage. Oh, they also make a great breakfast sausage. So I just kind of

find the the cleanest, um, pro, you know, breakfast protein. Um, sometimes we'll do like a grass,

actually, Arizona grass rice beef has a good breakfast sausage. Yeah, that we make. Um,

and we kind of usually batch cook that so that we have it ready. So we'll either do that and

with some sourdough bread for breakfast or, uh, we're like, some cinnamon creamed honey.

The local honey. Yeah, local honey. Yeah. So great. And then lunch is even simpler. Uh, we,

we get a lot of prepared protein from here locally, eat clean phoenix. Um, and they will do

like protein and books. So we love to get their clean salmon while caught salmon. We usually

just put it in a bowl with some microgreens, some local microgreens. We do Spanish olives and

some cherry tomatoes, a little olive oil, lemon juice, salt and pepper and like that's,

that's lunch. So somehow, somehow we got tricked into thinking fast food means it has to be

in a package and made by someone else in the middle of the grocery store with

God knows what ingredients, but it really, it's like, no, like you can create a lunch like you just

said, that is so simple and really doesn't take many ingredients and you're getting nutrient

dense food at every meal. I have found two that one. We have a breakfast like what you just

described. We are so satiated and have so much energy like up through lunchtime, but when we skip

out and we, cause yeah, we're human and sometimes like the kids have cereal, not with food dye,

but sometimes they have an organic cereal that has way too much sugar and they are crashing

by noon and I home school. So I hear it. They're like, I need, I need food. I'm like, you need

protein because I was lazy, but um, it's, I love just sharing this with you guys and seeing what

you guys have not only created in the documentary to bring awareness, but what you're living out and

leading in real time before we let you guys go. I do want to ask what if, um, you had to tell the

audience what should they focus on? What is a nutrient dense item that they can pick up this week?

Why don't you include this? I know we've talked about beef, but is there anything else that you

would say, this is a great starting point for you when you go to the grocery store this week

to, to try to grab and try it, try it, try to incorporate this into your meal planning this coming

week. I mean, I'm always going to say raw milk, but not everyone has really access to it. Not in

California. They took all the good things from us out here. We have to black market that in.

It will change, but man, um, raw milk is really a super food in my opinion. It's so nutrient dense

and, um, so much better on the digestion than the pasteurized milk. Um, but again, that can be hard

to come by. Um, but if you want to, if you ever get a chance to try it, I do highly recommend to try

that. But I think just high quality eggs, whatever you can get, eggs are, they can be good for breakfast,

lunch or dinner. Yep. It's such an easy versatile powerhouse to be able to just make very quickly

and easily. I think with the egg thing, didn't in the documentary, wasn't there some conversation about

with your egg lady who was so hilarious, but something about how people would come to her and say,

I'm allergic to eggs. I can't do eggs. And then she's like, well, try my eggs. And it was something

with the corn diet. Yeah. Most chickens are fed like a corn and soy diet. So if you have, um, an

issue with corn or soy, because the chicken ate it, you are eating their egg of the chicken. So

it's like, it's not like what we eat. We are not what we eat. We are what we eat eats.

You gotta go a little further, um, because it really does matter. And that's why the grass fed,

grass-finished beef is so good is because they're not being fed, you know, glyphosate and all the

pesticides and whatnot, um, and just grains, right? I just love you guys. I love what you're doing.

I love your efforts on this front. Patrick, I want you to close us out before we roll into your

trailer and just share some encouragement for the moms and the dads who are listening to this

and who are thinking, okay, my eyes are open. I see what you guys are talking about and you're

going to see even more in the documentary, but just to give some encouragement about how this

is the path forward if we're going to reclaim our health in America for our children and our

grandchildren and that we really do have a shot at this. I'm reminded of a story that Jordan

Peterson told of a woman that's at a party and she's looking really depressed and sad and

somebody comes up to her and says, you know, like, why are you so sad and depressed? And she's like,

well, I can't decide if the world is against me or if I'm doing something wrong myself,

but I hope it's me because then I can change it. And what I'm reminded of that story is in this case,

our health outcomes, we have so much to do with the outcome. We are not victims. We are in control

of so much of our health and so much of it starts with what we eat and what we choose to put in our

bodies and what we choose to feed our families. So knowledge is power, but action is really where

you get the difference. If you start with the dirty dozen ingredients to avoid as your first place

to start, once you do that, you're going to gain a superpower. You're going to go from level one

to level two and be like, oh, I know that BHT is something I should stay away from. That's a new

super power. The next levels are, oh, I found this local farmer that actually does sell raw milk

or has farm fresh eggs. I am going to buy coffee that doesn't have mold in it. I understand that

organic food means it wasn't sprayed with glyphosate. So this knowledge does become power. And as you

vote with your wallet, you change the market, which changes it for the rest of America.

It's so good, you guys. Okay, Ashley, I am going to throw it to you one more time because

I want you to do the heart to heart for mamas who are listening and just to encourage them

in just this new direction of breaking big food from a practical perspective.

Well, I know that moms are classically overwhelmed with so many things and decisions, so much

responsibility on your shoulders of like taking care of the family, making sure everybody's

well fed. And it's like, it's a very personal mission. And so first, I just want to say like

mind your stress and be easy on yourself. Take small steps. Just do one upgrade at a time. You

don't need to go to the pantry and just like purge everything all in one day. That's what we all

want to do because we're crazy like that. But you don't need to do that because the stress pillar

of health is really a very, very important one. And it's about direction, not perfection.

That's really what I want to say that again, real sweet people with this about direction, not

perfection. And to remember that our bodies are a miracle and they're quite resilient. So one

imperfect thing is not going to make the difference. It's the 80, 20 rule, do the best you can

as often as you can start with the labels. And you're cute little chicken lady. She was so cute

at the end of your documentary. She was talking about how happiness is also a part of our overall

health. And if we're so stressed out about our food and you know, the labels and the overwhelm,

then we lose out on the happiness. And that's a huge component of our health. So we also have to

be happy. And I think she even said, so sometimes I eat something just because it makes me happy.

And I just love that. I love that. I think that that is the 80, 20. Okay. You guys are absolutely

wonderful. I want you to tell everyone how they can find you. Everything will be in the show notes

audience. So you can go check out the show notes after this. But I want you to wait until you see

the trailer. And you hear Ashley and Patrick share where you can find their gorgeous little

firefly shop that I am going to visit. I can't wait to come visit you guys out in Scottsdale

and then everything else you're doing. We can't wait to share an afternoon latte with you at

Firefly. Yes. All of the things that we have been talking about today can be found on breaking

big food.com, including links to Apple and Amazon to watch the documentary links to socials for

jigsaw health where you can find firefly organic beans as well as links to firefly organic coffee

and market and come visit us in Scottsdale. We'd love to see you. And I didn't know that you can

actually get your beans online. That's. Yes. Wow. All my California audiences rejoicing right

now. So you can you can go check out the show notes. Okay. Guys, we are going to roll this great

trailer for breaking big food, which is going to show you how breaking big food happens through

direct farm to consumer business partnerships. It's voting with dollars, building community

networks, rejecting the ultra process default by making real food accessible and delicious again.

You guys are going to love this. Check it out. The fact is the American food system is broken

and it's killing us. This is Cali means. Cali means. Cali means. Former Coca-Cola consulting.

Cali means. We have a dysfunctional food system where it is cheaper to get ultra-process food

than whole food, but through crazy subsidies and we're being poisoned by design. The entire system

is rigged so that it is almost impossible to not make bad choices. When you eat this ultra-process

food you want to eat more of it. You know whether that's addiction or not it sounds to me like

it's addiction. No one can eat just one. I was living off of fast food and frozen foods if anyone

said oh that food is not making you feel good I would have said no that's not true because I had

just gotten used to not feeling good. We spend 4.9 trillion dollars now a year on health care.

The result of that is we rank 49th in life expectancy. This is lifestyle in juice. This is food

induced. No one person can make the change that we need. We can't break big food dollar for

dollar because they have the dollar. This is a collaborative effort by the American people.

Clearly something isn't working and it has to do with our food system.