Browns make their first big move: What it means for the draft and at QB

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Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Orange Brown Talk podcast and lobby at Mary K. Cabot

with you, a Hey Mary K edition of the podcast back from the Combine and Indianapolis spent

a lot of time out there, Mary K. More time than we usually spend staying for the offensive

alignment, of course, which feels appropriate today because the Browns are going to make

a trade for an offensive lineman. So these questions are from our football insider subscribers

and that leads right into this question from Mark Scott in Minerva, Ohio, the Browns going

to acquire Titus Howard for a fifth round pick. They're also going to give him a three-year

$63 million per year or it's not per year. That would be a lot. Three-year $63 million

extension. So, Mark Scott, Minerva, Ohio says, Hey, Mary K, does the trade for Titus Howard

influence how the first two picks of the draft will be used or was this a deal to add depth?

Well, I think it actually probably does influence the draft a little bit, even though Andrew

always says they go into the draft acting like they don't have anything else in their

expansion team. I still think it frees you up to maybe take one tackle and one receiver or

something like that in the first round of the draft. Now, once again, we must remember Andrew

doesn't operate like that. He doesn't draft for need and he shouldn't draft for need. That's

the quickest way to lose your job is to go for a player that is not as good as the one you could

have picked. So you have got to take the best available player, but this year is a year in which

the best available players match up with the Browns needs. They need those offensive tackles,

they need those wide receivers, and it's a nice rich class in both of those areas. So I think you

could end up with one of these guys that we talked to on Saturday. We talked to most of the really

good offensive tackles on Saturday, got a feel for them, got to see how they pass the eyeball test,

got a feel for some of their personalities a little bit. I'm glad we did it. There is a photo

circulating on Twitter right now that shows that there was hardly anybody left just 15 minutes

before all the offensive lineman talked on Saturday at the combine, but there we were, the Cleveland

media. Although I will say I did not make it into that photo. I had not arrived yet. So I was

one of the later drivers. I was there before they started talking, but by the way, they were more

people there than that photo showed. Like some of those stars got pretty big. So I think that

there were people that kind of were late arriving like I was, but well, this because it was of course

early, pretty early morning. It was 10 a.m. on a Saturday at the combine, and that's early

considering that people are usually out until two, three, four o'clock in the morning. But we were

there in full force, Cleveland media contingent. And of course, we had to be because the Browns need

so many offensive lineman, and we needed to get to know these guys. So even though it would probably

have been easier for us to just say, Hey, let's go home on Friday. We stuck it out. We did our jobs

and I'm proud of us for being in that picture. And again, Dan, you showed up probably two seconds

after that. You were there for that whole Saturday scrum with the offensive lineman, mostly the

tackles. And I'm glad we stuck around for that. Yeah, it was good because that's one of those

positions where it's nice to be able to actually get eyes on people and actually see them. And you know,

of course, a lot of discourse around that photo. It's one of those things that takes off on social

media. You know, we're fortunate that we do get to stay there till Saturday. Not everyone has

that. I mean, there's some people that can only stay there for their coach and GM to talk. And

then they got to get out of there. So, you know, we're fortunate that we're able to get those

expense reports through that can keep us there until Saturday. But we did get to see these guys.

And that was important. And now when you look at this Titus Howard acquisition, I think it comes

down to, it just reminded me Mary Kay of the Jack Conklin signing. And in a lot of ways, I view this

as a free agent signing, even though it's a trade, the fact that they're extending him, it's basically

a free, you're basically giving him three years, 63 million dollars to come play for the Cleveland

Browns is just getting ahead of him actually hitting free agency. This feels a little bit like

when they went out and signed Jack Conklin. And then they ended up drafting Jed Will's at number

10 overall. And I could see a similar situation where they trade for Titus Howard, extend him,

they view him as one of their two starting tackles. And then they either draft someone at number

six or trade back and draft them at nine or 10 wherever or even at 24. I don't think this

necessarily changes anything. It just gives them a little wiggle room kind of everywhere else.

It really does. It really does. It sort of takes the pressure off. We know that they have to

restock that offensive line almost completely. And we know that Andrew Berry has admired

what the Chicago Bears did last off season where they took a little bit from here, a little bit from

there, a little bit of draft, a little bit of free agency, a little bit of trade. And that's what

the Browns are going to do. They might make another trade. Who knows? I mean, Andrew loves to wheel

and deal at this time of year. Maybe he's got an offensive lineman that he will sign in free agency.

If not in the first wave, then maybe come back in the second wave and grab, grab someone there.

So, and I still think that all of those tackles are in play at number six or if they trade back.

And I think in a perfect world, they would love to trade back a little bit. I think there are

probably six, seven, eight guys that people would give something valuable up to come up and get.

So, I think they're in a nice spot there at number six where somebody is going to say, hey,

why don't we trade up for a Caleb Downs or why don't we trade, trade out for an Arville

Reese or even a sunny styles or a Thai Simpson or whatever. You know, why don't we go ahead

and do that and see if we can get somebody to take this deal from us. And I think the

Browns would be more than happy to do that. I think they really, really like a number of these

offensive tackles and would probably be happy with the number of them. And then

short of that, there probably are some receivers that they would love to have in the first round.

And once again, Andrew likes to shock and surprise a little bit during the draft.

When you think he's going to zig, sometimes he zags. You know, sometimes he sometimes he goes

defense when you think he's going to go offense. So, it's unpredictable. And I think that this

just does free them up a little bit to do whatever they want to do in the first round.

I was also thinking about this too. When you look at some of these top guys, Spencer Fano,

played right tackle his last couple of years at Utah. Francis Maui Noah played right tackle

at Miami. So if you draft one of those guys and you have Titus Howard in the building,

maybe you moved Titus Howard to the left side and you let one of those guys come into the

league at least and start off at right tackle. I just don't think it puts you in a position where

you have to draft a Spencer Fano and say, okay, now you've got to make this transition as a

rookie to the left side. Same with the Maui Noah. Now they could take a, you know, Kate Proctor

or Caleb Lomo, Monroe Freeling, one of these guys who have played left tackle. And maybe the

plan is just that simple. The other thing I think this does is you're bringing in a guy who

will, I mean, let's say, let's say they draft a tackle and then let's say Dewan Jones comes back

and is an awesome shape and competes and shows that he's worthy to maybe be a starter again.

It would be expensive, but you can kick Howard in a guard if you wanted to because he's played,

he's played guard before. Now you're paying $21 million a year for a guard. That's a lot of money.

It's not the highest paid, but it's up there. But it does give you that kind of flexibility.

Like this is a guy that could play the left. He could play the right. If you wanted to kick him

in a guard, you could do that. That there's just, it just gives you a lot of options. I think,

obviously, if you're giving him three years, $63 million, he's going to be one of your five

starters and most likely one of your starters a tackle. But there is at least some,

you have some options with him if things play out a certain way in camp and as you set up these

competitions. Right. There is definitely position flexibility with Howard. So you can do a lot of

different things with him. The thing that he hasn't really done is played left tackle. So he hasn't

done that. He has played primarily right tackle and then he's played left guard. And I think he's

probably played some right guard to a little bit of right guard, but he hasn't played left tackle.

So you still, for the most part, are probably going to be finding yourself

more of a true left tackle. And there are some guys coming out that fit that mold,

Caden Proctor being one of them. And you can probably get your hands on him at, at number six,

or at least it seems like maybe you can. So that's something to keep in mind. Unless you really do

100% believe that Dewan Jones is going to come back healthy and you can plug him in there and

that he's going to stay healthy and that he's going to be okay over there. So not exactly sure what,

you know, what they're thinking in that regard. But who knows. I mean, we might see another trade.

We might see a free agent signing that helps inform what their actual plans are there. And of course,

we're still waiting to figure out what's going to happen with Joel Betonio at left guard.

Still don't know exactly what's happening there. You know, maybe he wants to get the lay of the

land a little bit and see what's going to be happening at other spots on the offensive line or at

quarterback. So we probably will be hearing something soon. But as of right now, we just don't have

a definitive word on that. Yeah, and of course that sort of determines we don't know what they're

going to do even at center for, for example, like, do they want to ride with a Equipler at center or

do they want to bring back Ethan Postick who obviously is coming off that rupture to kill these.

There are some, how does Kevin Jenkins fit into all this? Do they like what they saw at the end of

last year? I want to bring him back. There's, there's a lot of questions internally that we don't

have answers to yet. But this, this sends a pretty clear signal. You know, this is the start. And

we always talk about what's the first move a team makes. It's not always like the biggest thing,

but I do think it matters that the first move Andrew Berry made was let's, let's agree to a trade

let's not mess around in free agency. Let's not leave any of this to chance. Let's go get the guy

that we wanted. And like I said, I do kind of view this as if he were a free agent offering him three

years, 63 million dollars and bringing him in. And in the end, all the cost he was a fifth round pick.

So I think this is a pretty good start for this team. Right. And, and they filled a hole. And

that's what you want to do in trades and free agency. Again, in the draft, you want to build your

roster with the strongest and best players that you can possibly find in trades and free agency,

you are plugging holes. And there are plenty of holes all across the offensive line as we know.

And now one of those positions is taken care of. I will say, however, that his run blocking is not

his strong suit. His past blocking is his strong suit. So you might have to give him a little bit of

help in obvious running situations. You might have to jumbo it up a little bit. There are certain

things that you might have to do there to make sure that you're getting what you need. But he is

definitely an excellent pass blocker. He was tied for 18th in the NFL in past blocking. And in last

year, in all of his snaps from last year, he only surrendered one quarterback hit and no sex. I mean,

that's remarkable. That's really remarkable. I think I have that right. How many snaps was that?

I wrote this earlier. So in 609 pass block snaps, he gave up 0sacks and 1QB hit. That's

pretty amazing. He played 550 snaps at right tackle last year and 334 snaps at left guard last year.

So he's pretty darn amazing in the past blocking realm. And he ranked only 85th in run blocking with

a 50.7 grade. And that is subpar. That's not what you want for your run blocking. But again,

there are ways to get around that a little bit. They got what they needed over there. It's not

easy to find an accomplished starting right tackle or left tackle anywhere. And they got one. And

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Okay, so let's move on some leftover stuff from the combine and some of what we heard last year.

So this comes from Tom in Middlebury, Connecticut. Hey, Mary Kay, what do you think of the open

competition plan at quarterback? Well, I think it might almost be a question of semantics because

in a perfect world, Todd Monkin would like to know who his QB1 is by the time he hits training

camp at the end of July. So the open competition part of it is going to ensue when the offseason

program begins and when OTAs are underway. And when mini camp is going on, I don't know if it's

going to be a full on open competition in training camp. I think it would be who've them to avoid

that. I think that you need to hit the ground running in camp and you need to be as ready as you

can possibly be to let the starters get as many reps as they possibly can in a brand new scheme

because it's never easy to get all these players working together in a fast rapid fashion

in a brand new scheme. So I think you want to give as many reps as you can to QB1 and hopefully

for him and for them, they will have that sorted out by the time they get to camp and if they don't

100% sure know by July 29th who the QB1 is, then they need to know very soon after that. They

cannot go deep, deep, deep into camp not knowing who their quarterback is. It's too detrimental to

everybody in that offense. There's not enough time to catch up. They have to know.

Yeah, I agree with that. I don't think you can, I think at most, maybe you can commit

two weeks of camp to this thing like if it gets even, even gets that far because what do we keep

talking about? They have to remake this offensive line. They're going to bring in young playmakers,

right? Young, maybe young linemen, maybe young receivers. They need to really work to get all

these guys on the same page with the quarterback, with the play caller, with the OC, all of that

stuff. You just don't do that if you're having this open competition and splitting reps and

taking reps away from guys and have a guy way over on some field working by himself however they

decide to do it. I think you need to know who you have and let these guys all work together and

get used to each other because you just, look, they don't have to go win the Super Bowl this year,

but you can't, I mean, Jimmy Haslum stood up there and said eight wins in two years isn't

good enough. They have to at least be competitive and they have to be ready to go week one. If

you waste time on a QB competition and it sounded like Todd Munkin didn't just come out and say

it, but it sure sounded like he didn't really want to waste a ton of time on a quarterback competition

in training camp like it just slows everything down with everything else going on on this offense.

Yeah, it really does, but when I look at what is kind of going on right now on this Cleveland Brown's

offense for 2026, it almost seems to me that this is not the year to take this prized pig to the

fair on offense. I just don't know if they can say this is going to be the year and the reason why I

say that is because they don't know who their quarterback is going to be yet. They might start

this season with either Shadour Sanders to Sean Watson and they just have to see how that goes.

They just have to see, are we, do we have our quarterback this year or are we looking at the 2027

draft and then you look at the offensive line? Sure, you can patch some holes and kind of pull it

all together, but it's going to take that offensive line probably at least part of this year

to be a well-oiled machine, to be working together like the five fingers on a hand or all those

things that you say about offensive linemen. So I just don't know if this is the year that you can

expect great, wonderful, explosive, magical things out of this offense. Of course, I think it comes

down to the quarterback, who the quarterback is, but there are a lot of things that need to happen

on this offense for it to get where it needs to go. Yeah, I agree, but it just, I think that,

you know, I was thinking about like if this defense is let's say even 75% of what it was last year

and I think it'll be better than that, but I'm, you know, let's just say for some reason they take

a step back, you know, Mike Gutenberg's never called the defense all that stuff or they start off

a little slow or something like that. If they're even like just 75% of what they were last year,

maybe just a borderline top 10 defense. And again, I think they will be better than that.

You don't need to score 30 points a game to win. And I think we saw last year that there were

just games for man. If you could have scored 24 points, if you could have scored 21 points,

you could have won this game. And I do think that if they can just figure it out enough on offense,

they can be one of those teams that lands in that, you know, 7, 8, 9,

depending on how the ball bounces, maybe even get that we see it every year just because of the way

the NFL is. Like, you can stumble your way into seven or eight wins. And I think people would

feel good about that. And again, I don't know what they're going to do a quarterback. I've said

this before. I still don't know. I still feel like there's something out there that we haven't

thought of or some move they're going to make at that position that we haven't thought of yet.

It's just hard for me to believe that Todd Munkins looking at this and saying,

yeah, I'm good. Put my first chance at 60 years old in the hands of Dishon Watson and

Shor Sanders. Maybe he'll have to. But I think this offense can at least be good enough to win

some football games and at least be better than they were a year ago.

Yeah, I think so. And you know that I've been saying this for some weeks now,

probably at least three weeks now, I've been trying to say that I don't really think that they

are going to be the team that ends up with Malik Willis, right? I mean, I think I've been pretty

vocal about that. I think I've said it many, many times on the podcast. I've said it on videos.

I've said it in short videos that I do think that there probably will be another team that

ends up with Malik Willis and I mostly said the Miami Dolphins, but I think the Cardinals are another

team that could be well in play for that as well. And part of that is going to be because the price

tag could climb to $30 million realistically because it's not a good year for quarterbacks.

There just aren't a lot of available quarterbacks this year. So the price is going to go

up on him. There will be suitors. And then the other thing is that he is represented once again

by Deshaun Watson's agent, David Mulageta, not sure that he wants to put those two guys against

each other. So I've been saying for a long time, I just don't know if he's a viable, viable option,

but we can also never say never because if a guy's market doesn't turn out to be what he thinks

it's going to be or the price doesn't get to where they want it to go, then you never know.

You never know. It's got to be right player at right price. And if somehow he ends up being that,

then they would be in the mix. But right now, it sort of still seems to me like somebody else

is going to be willing to pay him more than the Cleveland Browns are going to be able to pay him

next year in part because of what's going on with Deshaun Watson's contract, $80 million right now,

cap charge, that will be restructured at some point. And that number will come down significantly,

but nevertheless, it's still going to be a big number and too big to probably add a 30 million

dollar quarterback, even though there's probably ways to structure that contract so that he ends up

with a $1.25 million contract in his first year. So we'll have to see how that goes, but I came

away from the combine and I'm sure somebody probably asked this question. So maybe I should just

shut up and let somebody ask the question. Did anybody ask a question about how we came away from

the combine feeling about the quarterback situation? Some people asked about, let me see if there

was a specific question, but if not, we'll just say there was. Yeah, you know what, we'll just say

there what, you know what, Dan, Dan Lobby from Stowe, Stowe, Ohio, and hey, Mary Kay, how do you feel

about the quarterback situation after the combine? Yeah, my dog is my dog is weighing it upstairs.

Better your dog than my cat rate. So great question, Dan from Stowe, and I came away from the NFL

combine thinking that the Browns really are going to try to see if they can get something out of

Dishon Watson or Dishon, Dishon, Dishon and Dishon, Shadour Sanders. This is my fault because I

said that last week, I said Dishon instead of Shadour when we were talking about Dishon Watson

at Shadour. So this is my fault. I planted that in your head and now you're not going to get rid of it.

So I do think at this moment in time that it's probably going to come down to those two guys

and they're going to try to decide what they can do with those two guys and then look to the

2027 draft if they need to and look at that very rich 2027 class when they should have archmaning

and Dante Moore and Lenora Sellers and all these other guys. So that's how I feel today.

Now that could change. That could change. We hear all kinds of other things. You know, we see all

kinds of other things. It's the season of rumors. It's silly season. It's lying season.

People have to remember that teams, it behooves them. It behooves them to kind of fudge things a

little bit and make sure that people don't really know what they're up to and sometimes they even

plant stories and put things out there on purpose to make sure that it's a misdirection play

and that you don't know what they're doing and don't know where they're going with a certain thing.

But right now in this moment, I still sort of feel like it's going to be those two guys

battling it out for this year and they'll put their resources elsewhere on that offense and then

see how it goes and come back next year with a quarterback if they need to.

Does that preclude drafting someone in your mind? So like, and I don't mean like drafting some

guy on like day three, but drafting like, I mean, Tyson's and I think his stock is going to rise.

I don't to the point where maybe you might not be able to get him at 24, but drafting Tyson's

in it, let's say 24 or drafting Garrett Nussmeyer in the second or third round or draft, you know,

somebody, any other, throw any other name in there, Carson back, whatever, drafting someone

on day two of the draft. Does that, I guess when you say Dishonverse should or does that preclude

taking a quarterback in on the first two days of the draft? No, I don't think it does. I really don't

necessarily think that it does. And here's why I say that and it's going to sound like I'm kind of

all over the road or talking out of all sides of my mouth with this, but I keep coming back to this.

Todd Munkin has not really had a whole lot of time to evaluate not only his own quarterbacks that he

has on his roster or the quarterbacks in the draft or the quarterbacks in free agency because his

number one priority was to build the absolute best coaching staff that he could possibly assemble.

And we are going to be talking to those guys on Wednesday in Berea. So that's kind of an exciting

thing to meet those guys for the first time in that press conference setting. But I don't know

that Todd has really been able to dig into the nitty gritty of these guys and examine everything

that he needs to about all of these quarterbacks. And maybe by the time they get to the draft,

he will have had time to do that. And maybe things change, maybe things change by that. Maybe his

opinion changes. I think right now coming out of the combine, I feel like it's still those two

guys, but it's a fluid situation. First, you have to see what's going to happen with any veteran

quarterbacks that start flying around out there. Then you got to dig in and really watch the film

on your own guys and on the draft eligible guys and see if you feel like you can move forward

with Dishon and Shador or if you need something else. And I don't know that he 100% knows the

answer to that yet. And it's not just going to be him, of course. He is going to have a say in

the matter. He's going to have a say in the matter, but it needs to be a big say. He has to be

really excited to coach whoever is going to be playing quarterback for him next year. He's got to be

all in on that guy as best he possibly can be. And I don't think he knows enough yet. So how he

feels right now and even how Andrew Barry feels right now might be different than how they feel on

April 10th, April 15th, April 20th. There's a process. There is a process and they still have to

do a lot of work on some of these guys. And maybe there is another quarterback that isn't even

Thai Simpson that they're going to look at and think, hmm, maybe he's somebody that we can do

something. What about Taylor and Greene? I mean, he's an intriguing prospect, right? Did you watch

him yesterday and the in the combine that he had? I saw, yeah, I was seeing some of the clips that

it wasn't sitting there watching it, but yeah, I saw some of the clips and stuff. He's very athletic,

very, very athletic, very fast. And you know, what if you dig into a guy like that and think,

this is a great developmental project. And we see an upside here that that we're really super

excited about. I mean, I don't know, but anything can happen at this point. I just think that

at this moment in time, if training camp started tomorrow, that they would march forward with

Dishon and Shador. And I like, so this, so this is me. Like if I were advising Todd Munkin on this

situation and Todd Munkin isn't going to ask me for advice, but I think you, I think you're playing

with fire. If you go into this season, banking on those two guys, because like Dishon is by the time

we get to September, it'll be almost two years since he played a football game. Like we've all been

down that road before. And Shador, look, Shador showed flashes. I think he, there were moments where it

was like, oh, that was interesting, but also there were a lot of moments where it was like, okay,

I see why he went in the fifth round. So I think you're, I think you're playing with fire,

because it's easy to say today, well, you know, we can do this and see what happens in 2027,

but a lot can change between now and between now and the, in January, whatever, 2027.

So I just, this is the thing that keeps giving me pause is this idea of Todd Munkin understanding

he's 60 years old. He's been waiting for this opportunity for a long time. He's finally got it.

Is he absolutely certain that he's going to want to tie his future? And I know it's just the

immediate future, but again, the, if this team doesn't win, maybe, maybe you're looking at a situation

where the GM has gone and then who knows what happens to the head coach. So I just think you've

got to be careful thinking too much about 2027 if that's the kind of the route they go.

And the other thing to consider so much can still happen again between now and the draft.

What if Shador and his camp want some kind of assurances that he is going to be the guy, right?

I mean, like, this is a very strong group of people that he has around him, you know, including

his father. I mean, they, they might want to know, hey, well, you know, where is this all going?

So we don't know where this is all going yet. And nobody knows exactly where this is all going yet.

And I think it's going to be very intriguing to watch it. I mean, I even see things where people

are like, oh, I think they're going to trade for Anthony Richardson. I mean, I have no idea if

they would even think about doing something like that. Right now, you know, I don't see that

happening and thinking that he would come in and do better than either Dishon or Shador. But,

you know, we don't know exactly what's happening. We did not know in 2022 that the Browns were

actually going to end up with Dishon wants, right? I mean, that seemed like a total long shot.

So many things had to happen for that to take place and come to fruition, including a fully

guaranteed $230 million contract. So you never really know. That's another thing. What if Jimmy

Haslam steps in and says, hey, let's go get Malik Willis and let's go pay him $30 million a year.

I mean, there are other parties involved, besides the primary decision makers, right? I mean,

we think of Andrew Barry and then we think of Todd Munkin having a say in things. But, you know,

there are other people that do get involved and things sometimes start to take on a little bit

of a life of their own. Well, and that the 2022 offseason is interesting, not just because of the

way that week played out, but I've referenced this before in the pod. We did a whole series,

The Baker Mayfield Matrix, where we went through every day was like a new option. You know,

what should the Browns do a quarterback? And it felt all offseason, like, or it felt like coming out

of that season, like maybe Baker wasn't going to be the perfect solution. But it felt like, okay,

I don't know if there's anything better out there. You're talking about, you know, I don't know.

They're just weren't, weren't guys out there that made you say, yeah, that's a better solution,

that's a better solution. And then all of a sudden, I don't know where the Browns get in on the

Dishon sweepstakes and he ends up choosing Cleveland. So that's like right now on March 2nd, it might

feel a little bit like, yeah, you know, they might just have to do the Dishon should or thing,

because they don't have other options. But things can change in an instant. And we saw that in 2022

when it kind of felt like, you know, they just might have to go another year with Baker Mayfield

and then figure it out after that. Yeah, absolutely. It is young in the season of acquisition.

It's only just getting underway and things are going to get really interesting, of course,

starting on Monday when the negotiating period opens. That's where we're going to find out

where some of these quarterbacks land. You know, Kyler Murray is going to be on the move.

Geno Smith is going to be on the move. Kurt Cousins is going to be on the move. I don't see them doing

a Kurt Cousins necessarily. Geno Smith kind of thing. I don't think that they would do that. I think

if they acquire a quarterback, it will be somebody that they see has a longer term future here or

can be developed into something. I don't think they're going to go with an older quarterback and

bring somebody like that in. But we're going to start to see some movement starting on Monday or

maybe even before that, if you get some trades like the Browns made their trade today. So things

are heating up. The league year is about to open. It's about to get very interesting. And remember,

the day that that we had the Jimmy Haslum press conference, when Kevin Stofansky was fired,

he said the next 120 days are crucial. And they really are. And we're in the thick of those days

right now. And it's go time starting Monday. Okay. There we go. Hey, Mary Kay edition of

The Orange Brown Talk podcast. Those questions from our football insider subscribers. That's

Cleveland.com slash Browns and Blue Banner at the top of the page. Find us on YouTube as well.

Cleveland Browns and Cleveland.com. And any social you've got, go search for Orange Brown Talk

and give us a follow over there. Mary Kay, I'll talk to you later. Sounds great.