BULLS POSTGAME: Strong Tre Jones Game Can’t Save Bulls vs Thunder | CHGO Bulls Podcast

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And our king and the controls for the evening.

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It's the one and only shot Anderson.

What I'm shot.

Nice read.

You're late.

The Bulls allowed 157 points.

Let's go.

You're late.

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Yeah.

You got 157 points.

Last time they played.

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Who was I?

Watching.

He just loves nots read.

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That.

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Shout out nots read.

Always.

At least we're out of play in hell, says Thomas Bagen, that's right.

This is a fine A saying officially out of the play.

And the season's effectively over.

Well,

No, because the bulls have nine more games to play, but yes, how

Glorious in the evening it is that we can say

concretely and mathematically the bulls will not be going to their fourth straight play in tournament appearance

Some of us are very happy about that because that would have made no damn sense

Woo! That's a big one. That's big time. Shout out, Brandon Bills. Hey, Julie, man.

I was I was like, what bulls are up and half and then like 88, 80 late in the third Cori

I was like, are we actually going to win this game somehow? Not for one second. Did I?

I don't know. I think Cori was about to lead us to victory, Dave. I mean, not even for one second. Did I think that I'm watching the thunder play one of their worst games

and I'm watching SGA go over 10 for the three point line. I'm watching them commit a ton of turnovers and do all this stuff and

it was like a five-point game. It was like the highest was eight and I was like as soon as Patrick Lee will you's walked into the game

22 zero run is what occurred right there. No, now for one second

Did I think they were going to win that game? I said it during the second quarter felt like watching the bulls in the 90s

just that chilling in the first half and then they'll pick it up when they feel like picking it up and after they did

They picked it up when they felt like it. They took it to them. They ended the misery and yeah, the bulls will not be going

competing to go to the playoffs to play in all of that dream is dead. No not happening. I don't know what to do from here

I know what happens for the previous years. I know how to go about it. This is new territory here for me

I don't know what to do with my hands

I'm going to figure it out. You know, thanks for all your well wishes. I'll tell you we'll figure it out together guys

Stay strong. I'll tell you what to do. Start watching some college basketball. There it is. There it is

Shout out a line. I recall Matt when we were I can't remember where it's the start of the year at some point during the season

And we were talking about like outcomes that we would have hoped for it was leading up to the holidays and it like

Christmas wishes, I think. Yeah, maybe it was

Slash New Year's resolution or something like that and mine was for the love of God. Don't go to a fourth straight plane tournament either

You could finish above below or below you are not allowed to go to the plane again

And I think that's just like it was an interesting frame of reference because

Obviously in professional sports, you're like trying to get to the top or in some cases trying to get to the bottom

Yes, but you don't really think about like where you're trying to avoid and I think that was like a good

Way to think about the season. It's just like you can't end up back where you started for the fourth straight

Season. Yeah, I don't even know what the plan situation looks like right now

But like is it possible that they could have been playing Miami in a nine ten? Yeah, cuz Miami

I'm like a five game L streak. I think they get one they ended it with the win recently

But Miami had fallen into the ninth or ten spot. They are they are 10th right now 39 and 35

Yeah, all the teams in the world are above 500 like the bulls were just even if they did keep this team together

I don't think that they were gonna make it there the way that the hornets have come out there in the eighth spot right now

39 and 33 and 34

along with the magic and the heat like they could still climb out of it

But my point is I think that

when you think about the trade deadline and the decisions that were made and the return that they got like I still think

It was in the best interest for them to start to strip this thing down and look towards a future because what they were doing

Was gonna just end them probably not even in the play in this year. So

We can talk about that and break all that down, but

It's I think a good way to think about just like the putting a bow on this last Arab team because that's like behind us

And the play in is now behind us too. I wanted to point out something

Matt just said and I don't want people to gloss over that this part

When he said you could finish above or below

so I think it's important

For people to hear that for those who think he's over here just rooting strictly for losses

He's not no problem going to the playoffs

You know what I mean like I call them to big boy play the big boy playoffs. No problem finishing above that that is a good thing

Yeah, if we get to this team and was like, oh man, they're good enough to go to the playoffs

It's just that we didn't feel they were gonna go to the playoffs didn't see it didn't see it in hindsight and guest

Organization did not see it either. So I didn't made all the trades. They did but you didn't want to see it

In the middle again. So either you go to the playoffs and you compete and you see what happens or you finish below it

And you prepare yourself for the draft

But the middle is what he's saying he's trying to avoid right there and that's that's nothing wrong with that

That is absolutely right like yeah, he's running for the wind. I want to see the scene when you want to see them

You know be good who doesn't want to see the boys be good my god

It's been a while we would love to see them be good

But reality is what it is the truth is what it is

They weren't good enough to go to the playoffs. They haven't been good enough to go to the playoffs in the past few years

So you only got two options there you either go to the playoffs or you don't

But you don't get yourself caught in the middle and cheat yourself out of certain type of positioning

That you can have in the NBA draft and it felt like they did that these past couple years

And you don't want to do it this year especially with how deep this draft is and the thing about you know

It is what it is shout out to you to in the chat asking genuine question what happened in that fourth quarter?

Is that just a collapse or a tank job? That was not a tank job. No

That is a tank job to once at all. No, like honestly

I don't other than Patrick Williams getting minutes in the second half of a game that the bulls held various leads

Because Nick Richards was out. Hey, there you go and say Smith. There you go

No, not a tank job, but the bulls to their credit trade Jones had a great game tonight

Yeah, you know, what's that and Isaac and Coro was their leading score with like 17 at half out of control only missed one shot at half time

He finished he started he was six to seven and a half he finished seven to thirteen. So meanwhile, you know

Not a great night from modest

Josh one of 11 only managed five points. Oh of eight from downtown. It's one of a

Five turnovers to go along with his 11 assists tonight. Tough game. So like tough game for the bulls and like held that lead

Just sort of I would say

It was fabricated that they were holding a lead for as long as they did tonight credit to the players who helped them get that lead

But as you pointed out Dave. I mean, oh of ten from downtown for shave night and then he you know like he was still scoring inside

He was still getting to the line. She finished nine of twelve at the free throw line tonight

But then just like the thunder started hitting shots not shea but shea's running mates started hitting shots

Late third quarter spanning the fourth that's when you saw them go on that twenty two oh run because the bulls went scoreless for over six minutes

You know

Just to talk about KC real quick. I mean everything you just said about the team aspect of them is everybody knows

That's in my opinion will make them so dangerous. It's not just having SGA is they got everybody

I got somebody at every position for you and anybody can go off at any given time

Tonight it was it was more Jalen Williams the anything

Number eight Jalen Williams, but SGA

Had it for what I'll talk about is a superstar stat line. Mm-hmm. So SGA was eight of fourteen eight of twenty four

It's four eight of twenty four shout out Kobe. You feel me?

Oh a ten three point line not great

He was

25 points and a plus ten is what he ended up with

Why do I have to call that a stat line a star stat line

Because when you go eight of twenty four usually you're not ending up with that

It's just not a thing

So that means I'm finding a way to affect the game when my shot isn't working at some point in time

I know I can score the bucket. I'm gonna find a way to do that. Yep. I'm gonna get to the line twelve times

You damn right I am even missed three free throws, which is rare. Mr. Technical. I mean, that was crazy

Still finishing up with twenty five and I'm still affecting the game

Every time I come down the floor a double team still going to have to come around. Mm-hmm. I'm still gonna draw that defense

I'm still gonna do those things and he still plays defense at the same time guys

He does star stuff those that's a that's a field goal line that you would see from a guy like Luca

You would see that from a guy like uh

Yannis, you know, those stars like that man like Hardin you would see those kind of stat lines

Oh man, they didn't have their best night shooting

Didn't matter like I'm still score and my team is still going to win

That is a great level to be at right now and the streak that he has as far as his twenty plus points still continues

Right there because of that so now man SGA is nice their team is just

Absolutely filthy when they can just turn it on and do it what they feel

That's a incredible feeling that I have not experienced since 1990. I mean that run of just like somebody got to the rim for a layup

Or somebody cashed it. It was just like it was crazy layups three layups dunks layups three's dunks layups

I was like they they just tore the bulls it tore them apart net four rows and they weren't even like they didn't shoot that well

One percent from three the bull shot 32 percent

Uh, they did heat up from the field 47 percent

But I think the majority of the damage they they did was on offensive rebounds where they had 15 the bulls only had 10

Tens a lot

And then 23 of 30 when they were missing a lot of their free throws

But they still had 10 more attempts than the bulls so

Even though the bulls had

Like a pretty solid offensive game until the fourth quarter when they just started missing shots like section was started

I think seven of seven and he ended up going eight of 14 so he won one for seven is last

Uh in the second half. Good job

20 on a 12 turnovers for the bulls. That's not a terrible number. It's kind of a lot

But like the ball pressure that okc has is like I don't hate that number

But I mean okc only at night. So it's just like they got kind of beaten on the margins. They got beaten

Um

On like the pace in the offensive rebounding that stuff

But then they also just got beaten with the talent which is just going to happen most nights with this team

Talent deficient. Yeah

Off 15 offensive rebounds for okc tonight and you know that

That team you don't need to be giving a team with that caliber extra possessions. No

They ended up taking 101 shots to the bulls 98 so it's not like the bulls got blown out as far as

Number shots to get up tonight

But yeah, you had a window because the thunder shot that poorly for two and a half quarters. So crazy man

Like that's the funny part is how once the thunder turned it on how

Quickly it flipped it's so deep right it was a 28 point swing in like

I'm about six minutes like the

Right up the first key was 88 80 with like 343 minutes and change in the third and that's when the boy walked in and then it was

And then it was and then it was one oh and then it was 102 to 88

In in like a few blinks of an eye. Yeah, like a 22 to nothing run is what I believe it is 15 straight field goals

Yeah, something like that I'm 21 and the fourth

Tell him to check the it was

It was

82 88 102. Yeah, so they scored. What is that? I don't know

22 points. Yeah, there won't 22 nothing run. It's what they went on a 22 to nothing run

And I mean, they're so good because other guys can keep them afloat while this thing is going on

Case and wallets was the one tonight right keeping them afloat like he was hot from the three point line man

Five of seven from three was eight of 11 like he was awesome and then in the fourth quarter

It was like okay, that's when the star has come out and that's when jangling Williams came out to play

You know what I mean? It was making it look easy out there and I think that's another different thing

We saw tonight at Dave you've talked about it a few times recently

This bulls team they are not

Tanking on purpose. No certainly not the players certainly not Billy

They will continue fighting. Yeah, and that's how they've managed to win some games recently like they're

Weed over the rockets on Monday. Yes. Rockets had a tough shoot tonight. Bulls took advantage. They played hard

They won

Tonight once okay see took control of that game bridging the third and fourth quarters

And then you're like okay, well now now it's a 20 point lead

You sometimes like they're still five minutes five to six minutes left. Mm-hmm. Hey the bulls

This is plenty of time Billy's not gonna sub his guys after it's early. Oh, he's not not gonna give up

But the thunder didn't let the bulls cut then cut the lead down to like nine or 10 after that

It was like exactly the least it got was the final score, which I think with yeah, which was 18

Yeah, like once the thunder took control of that game they held control of that game

No, no funny business gets to no bad possession down the stretch

Nope, no nonsense down the stretch to let the bulls creep back into it

It was like no, we're shutting the door on you as what championship teams do champions

With that let's knock out our first ad break. We'll come back on the other side some more thoughts on tonight's game

We'll get to our big

Oh, we'll get to our original thought original take

Reuters plus hit that like for a tank spin if you want one at the end of the show the like button is free. We'll be right back

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Before we move on quick shout out

In the superchap variety Travis math through is a $20 superchat. Appreciate your travel who said

I'm gonna try and reface this as best I can hey guys. I'm still in Bangkok. Shout out to Bangkok

And P will is still

Cheeks yes, and yes man you can buy all sorts of cheeks here, but no way could you sell those sticky cheeks?

Hi

Yeah, I mean like true shout out to the tank commander tonight because P will the bulls are still in in that game. Yeah, P will check in

The bulls were no longer in that game. Yeah, it was over after as soon as he walked in 80 to 80

I remember in the 80 80 he walked in and I mean just

Begin to spew all over the floor, but hey shout out to the five big boards tonight. Oh, yeah

Three of two of them in garbage star. Yeah, let's go. Oh, but the four big points the one of eight

God, he was one of eight. Oh

One of four from the three point line like yeah, we know what it is now at this point time like you know

Did we we all use the phrase a lot beating a dead horse? Yeah

Like it definitely flies here to this young man. No, but I think the diversity we were doing last year. Yeah

Ha ha ha

Whatever the next thing is that's whatever thing. Yeah, but unfortunately, I still have to kick it

You don't say every once in a while like just you know, they're unfortunately because it just stands out so much

But again, he played so much because of the injuries that they had

I don't even think he would have got the 18 minutes if they had Jalen and if they had uh Nick riches out there on the floor

Yeah, but they were avoiding like his only other option was was uh Kraggy Jr

So there's no way he gonna play him bro like he was like nah

So he wrote with him and you get what you get in that in that thing man. You get what you get uh

With that

Speaking of Pat another name that has kind of gone right alongside him recently and not comparing their quality of play

But oh, yeah, I mean it in a good or his bad way is Leonard Miller with that

Let's get to our original take for the evening. Okay original take

Brought to you by our friends at Hooter's cheer on your favorite team from any of their 11

Chicago land Hooter's locations or you can also check them out at original hooter's dot com

I am gonna do something I've done one or twice before I'm gonna have

phrase tonight's original take as a question. Oh rather than a statement all right

Leonard Miller took a team high

17 shots tonight. Let's go Leonard

Colin Sexton also came off the bench as did Leonard Miller and took

14 shots tonight. Whoa

Which one of those do you think I'm more upset about? Oh, this is a easy question. Okay

I'm gonna go let me see

Er uh the young boy himself Colin Sexton. That is correct. Oh

I think this is the first time Leonard Miller has been the bull's leader and field goal attempts in any game so far

I'm curious to see your eyes first time periods leading any NBA. I would have to guess

I mean 17 shots is a lot of shots and he was not particularly efficient on them. He was a shy six of 17

He had a couple of nifty little like step through moves and the bait and stuff like that

But not not the best Leonard Miller game we've seen

But he did continue his streak of scoring double digits. Yeah man with 15 points tonight shift in seven boards. Yeah

Shout out to him for that. I will not be mad at Leonard Miller taking double digit number of shots in these

Home stretch games so long as modest is also getting up double digit shots modest took 13 tonight made six of them. Yeah

I never see I never need to see Colin Sexton taking double digit number of shots in a bull's jersey ever again. Sorry, not sorry

Why two what end for what purpose?

Almost costing the bulls some wins

Almost what I mean yes, that is a career high for Leonard Miller. Hey, oh

Sir passing the Warriors count. He had it was eight for 16

But modest had 28 shots in that game. So he didn't mean the team

They're getting them up baby. That's what I like sexy plate 30 minutes

I mean part of it is just that they like so many guys out like this is but this is why

Yeah, that's the point we were complaining about some of the

Trades that they made or not buying some of these guys out at the deadline is because

Even if you have S&G and Collins and Jalen Smith and who else was out there Nick Richards was out

Ivy obviously Simon's that's seven of your

15 guys you have three two ways one of them was with the team tonight like

And some of the guys that are out are the ones that you would be wanting to play right now know a

Ivy so they just like don't have enough bodies that they can

Afford to just play the young guys because then there's nobody off the bench

So I think minute distribution could be a little bit more even that would certainly be something that I would

Hope to see every next nine games and that's kind of what I'm looking for now is like okay

Mathematically you are eliminated from the plan

the like

The jig is up. It's not happening

So how are you gonna approach this are you gonna you've got Memphis tomorrow night?

You've got two games against the Wizards. You've got Dallas. You've got

One other taking team, I believe I just don't see a way where they're gonna really

Get ahead of anybody probably even Milwaukee

So are they just gonna keep on going out there and trying to play the same way or they're gonna change some things and

Start to think about next year a little bit because that's really all there is at this point

I think they're gonna keep playing the same way. I think so too, and I think it's gonna be very yeah annoying

Yeah, I get it

I get it

But I don't think and I think you said to suit Bob Billy like I'm he doesn't know another way

Um, he's he knows winning. He knows trying to go out there when did you see him getting a technical foul today?

Yes, okay, so he's snapping off on him man going crazy like that's what he knows he knows

Winning and he wants to win all the time

So whatever pieces you give him he is going to try to construct something that is going to lead to a victory for the Chicago Bulls

So you're going to continue to see getty playing 30 plus minutes

You'll see why does continuing to play almost 35 minutes

You'll continue to see Colin Sexton out there coming off the bench or starting however, but he's gonna get his 30 minutes

It's gonna happen trade zones will continue to get those big minutes. I believe I think um

Leonard Miller is earned more minutes and thankfully he got him good

Tonight 26th to patch 18 tonight. I hope that continues. So that's what I have to look at it

Uh, in in the way in this kind of uh way go is guys

I have to look at guys who have shown that hey, they belong on the floor

Instead of saying hey, I want to see this guy and see what he has because I don't think that's gonna happen

So I think the guys have shown that they belong on the floor Billy is gonna reward them with some minutes

The only exception to that is probably Dillingham

Uh, because Dillingham is going to get an opportunity uh to get some minutes on the floor and to find out what he can do

Just for the sake of rest, you know for the other guys like a Josh getty and the trade zones and even a Colin

Sexton, so I think he uh kind of has it set up to where he'll be able to get in there and get some minutes and unfortunately

There are some minutes available because we know that uh jayla smith and we know that uh jay nivy won't be back for the rest of the season

Get better fellas for sure um, but yeah, so I think that frees up some minutes

For to allow him to put Dillingham into the game

But if you were looking for craggy jr. If you're looking for locking to get out there, bro

I don't know about that when if people like me looking for my man you can get out there. I don't know about that

I don't know what I'm saying

Sexton needs to come down with some kind of ouchy

For the last nine games so he can get some yuki in there

Just just to have something fun for bulls fans to watch. Yeah, maintain some semblance of sanity

We'll see because Nick witzers will be back. Yeah, he's gonna come back in my opinion if it's not nothing huge series like that

I think he'll come back and get an opportunity to play again

Simon seems like he's gonna come back and get some more time in there and play again. It's like why

I agree him back. No, I agree. I'm just I know what you're saying, but I'm good for for the bulls

It's like they're out like there's no

Use in everybody knows who and for any time is this as a player right spend the league for

six seven years now donate to evaluate that value with him

You've seen what he looks like with you. You know who he is as a person now. He's been in the locker room

I see him in there all the time like flicks. I just think you gotta

Be thinking about next year not this year and I

I know that's like easier said than done from this seat us compared to like the front office

You know understand whatever, but it's like that's that's all they have anymore especially for these final nine now

As you just said they are out. It makes me think

Sometime within the last couple of weeks and the bulls written maybe it's after they won that sun's game on that west coast trip

Billy said and trade Jones said the same thing in the locker room and I remember us reacting to it like yeah

Until until we are mathematically out of it. Yeah, we're still gunning for that play in turn of it

And some bulls fans beat our heads with bricks and we're like what are these people talking about

But it's like okay. Yeah, you're the coach you're the player you gotta you gotta say that we're still in the fight

We're not gonna give up. We're not gonna tank. Yeah, we're not gonna do any of that as long as we still got a shot

Now you don't yeah now you are mathematically out of it. So any mention between now and April 12th about competitive integrity

Shove it up here. You know what Matt per my flat flight tracker

I see a private jet leaving from okay. See two chapel Hill as we speak. What's that right? No

And live it's all I love lives tracker and tricks. Why you gotta be why you gotta be spread fake news on the program

That's all gotta get us in trouble. That's it. Uh, but so like literally they're

Yeah, I guess there is still the point of well the bunch of teams are racing towards the bottom in this tank and we're gonna talk about it in a little bit

Interesting news that came down from the league and some proposed rule changes

Of a few different varieties to try and curb the the league's tanking problem

And adjust to how the lottery works

So there is still that incentive. Yeah, but there is officially no more incentive to win if you're the Chicago Bulls right other than like

morale

Building some we'll lay it. We're laying the groundwork for next season. We have tax of W and we know that

Whatever changes that they do make are not gonna be in effect this year like I

And I always knew that was gonna be the case, but I think that

The Bulls may I'm not I don't know

I just feel like there's a chance that they were like

Thinking that something would happen this year and that's why like maybe they would continue on this path

But I mean that's what I said like it's there's no chance now the jig is up like they need to stop

Pretending that these games matter for this year when they they don't at this point

Which is why it made all the sense of the world and probably could have should have done it sooner

That they officially shut down Jalen Smith and jade and ivy for the season. Yeah a couple days ago. Yeah

It's true at this point

You know at

anybody who has any any kind of

contusion

Soreness stiffness tightness tightness tight tight tight

Don't plan but even even beyond that. I think they're at a point in the season where

They have to start thinking about can't is this going to affect guys' health going to next year like that's why I was smart to shut jalen down

He's had multiple

Strings of the calf you've been dealing with it for like two thirds of the season. Yeah since December

I can't remember was the start of December the start of January

He's been dealing with it on and off and like back for a couple games missing a couple games back for a couple games

It's like you need to think about how he's going to be able to compete next year. Yeah, and that's the that's a job of the organization

So what I think they it's called foresight will uh, which this organization seems to have none of right now

Well foresight would be okay

We're out like let's protect giddy from something disastrous happening and hold him out of games or play him 20 minutes a night

Because we don't want anything to happen next year. Mm-hmm. That's foresight

like being careful with jalen smith right now is just like

Not, I mean, that's just smart like it's it's not even thinking ahead. It's just like okay. This is what is best for him

Yeah, we gotta knock out another ad break right there

We'll come back on the other side and we'll dive into this interesting news about the proposed rule changes for the NBA draft lottery

That dropped earlier this morning, and then of course if we got those likes we will get to that tank spin hit the like button

Speaking of that tank spin they're required. Yeah, they are also free free. We'll be right back hit it

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CHD of both post game rolling along thanks for being here bulls nation pack big Dave the goat

Our guy shot Anderson hanging out with us on the controls hit the like button

We'll get some tank spins coming up in a little bit. Wait, how should I'm doing the tank spins? How you doing?

So I don't know what is and isn't allowed so maybe I'll get yelled at but

For Nazaried being for number 11 for every

11 likes we'll get a tank spin so we're currently at 35

Wow, that's three spins. Okay, so if we get to 44 you know what four spins. Okay, I would it did

We always leave it up to our producer to make the rules for that night as far as likes correlated to number of tank spins

I would call that a bit soft

At the same time, I feel like the night that the bulls are officially

Eliminating correct from making the play internament. We deserve it. Let's spin some tanks

We spin some tanks and any of the people

Also the commitment to Nazaried is just

I don't know if you might be the first human being in the world to have a Nazaried addiction. No

Instead of NA you need to go to an NRA

I would love to go to a Nazaried

I have to go to Minnesota

200 they gave away towels Nazaried towels in Minnesota Nazaried people just his name written people love they love Nazaried

I will be next we'll wait we're back to LSU because he loves it. I was ready so much

Yeah, now I always that I will be next

That team's fan base is falling in love with I owe you understand. Yeah, absolutely do will be as well in Charlottes

Juan Miller in the chat mean while saying this team is a real mess

Which all falls on the head of AK yeah correct and correct

If if a and b then see what is see for the love of God the bulls need a top four pick

And hopefully we also see a regime change this off season. Yeah, I'm not ruling it out

I'm not counting on it. I want not ruling it out. I need it

But speaking of the bulls desperately needing a top four pick to help try to get themselves out of this

Disgusting spot therein

That is that was the big news of the of the day in the NBA

Earlier this morning

Sham Sharanya

tweeted

That the NBA presented three comprehensive anti-tanking concepts to its board of governors with modifications expected to each

Before a formal vote in may

According to ESPN sources. So let's just quickly review these three options and we can talk about them. Okay, option one

18 teams in the draft lottery instead of 14 seeds seven through 15 in each conference

Flattened odds no bottom 10 teams having an 8% chance remaining 20% odds distributed in decreasing order from 11 through 18 teams in the lottery

And a lot of you are drawing for each of the 18 picks as opposed to just drawing for the top four

And then going in order starting at pick five based on record

Option two 22 teams in the lottery using a two-year record instead of one this year's record

Again seed seven through 15 plus the four playoff first round exits in both conferences

Lottery teams would require would reach a minimum win total floor in each season

Such as 25 wins if a team falls short of the floor it gets slotted to meet the floor top four drawn as part of the lottery as is currently

Option three 18 teams in what they would call a five by five lottery

Where the bottom five teams have equal lottery odds for the top overall pick

Lottery formed four picks one through five

Bottom five teams have a floor at at pick number 10

Those that fall out of the top five get sorted in a separate drawing

So that's a lot of stuff

I go to go yeah

What do you make of the to me like there's some stuff in here that I like and some stuff that just seems unnecessarily complicated and wouldn't necessarily help agreed

I mean, I think that's pretty much where I land on it at this point

I think the big thing

That I guess like the general trend that I see from this is like expanding the lottery like you're talking about 18 teams in option one 22

In option two and 18 teams in option three

and for me

I guess like the general criticism I've heard online from this so far is that like people think when you introduce the lottery to more teams

That gives incentive for more teams to try to tank and therefore it's going to make tanking more of a problem than it already is

That's what's happened before is you flatten the odds that gives more of a more teams a chance to get up

That gives more teams a reason to tank and that is what has created this problem that we're living right now for me

I get that and I agree with it to a to a certain extent

Maybe this is like my bulls lens bias showing, but like I was just said a lens bias

Hey shout out

Thinking thinking about the bulls

Through all this it's like I think what the bulls are trying to do or have been trying to do is like that quote-unquote ethical approach

Right is that you are trying to be competitive throughout the course of the season

You're not you're trying to have competitive integrity like I think theoretically

That's a good thing except for when it's like against what is good strategy and right now it is good strategy to lose more games to maximize your odds

I think giving teams a reason to build through the middle or having an opportunity for some of these middle teams

In the 10 9 8 9 10 range of both the play in and the reverse order

That gives those teams a chance to keep building and I think if you're trying to figure out ways to disincentivize

Disincentivize losing you also have to add incentives to winning and so

Creating an environment where teams can build through the middle. I think that could be a good thing

I think you run the risk of you know a team like the

Clippers or the Warriors or something this year jumping up

And people being frustrated with that

Which is fine, but like anytime you draw a line somewhere

There's gonna be a cliff where teams are like jockeying for position there

You're seeing it now and we haven't really seen this so far where teams are tanking out of I guess the maverick

Would be the example when they tanked out of the play-in so that they could keep their top 10 protected pick

And they did and they got Derek lively and I don't think they would

Trade that back for the $750,000 fine that they paid

But you see it a lot with the

Top eight protected picks you see teams jockeying for that

I think when you introduce more of these that's where you get more of that

Like egregious quote-unquote behavior

So I don't know that any of this really solves the problem

I do like the idea of helping teams try to build through the middle what I don't think this does is accomplish

the

Worse teams in the league the teams who most desperately need talent helping those teams get talent through the draft

Don't think it does that and

I just don't know that you can accomplish both that and building through the middle at the same time those seem kind of like

Mutual exclusive. Yeah, they're they're conflicting interests. Yeah right there

So I I agree with you on that last part for sure

Rewarding more so the guys in the middle think the teams that truly truly need

Help you know and watching them and I don't again. It's not easy for them to figure this out. This is why they're presenting options

I'm sure they may have 100 more options

That they are thinking about that they could present on this but helping those teams that are in the middle

Yeah, and I guess they're saying we want to see more competitive basketball during the season and hey because you're a competitive

We'll give you a chance, you know to do it that way in the league and then the people who are like, you know

Wife won six games and I truly need help here. What about me?

You'll be all right, you know what I mean? Let's see if you could pick yourself up

You know and get it going next year. I can't I don't have arms

I need you all to help me have arms and pick ourselves up. So

That's the that's the issue for me with it to go

I'm more concerned with the teams that truly truly need to help

But then it's also at the same time

How can you point out those teams that truly truly need help? I think that's really the key here because I think

We talk about it as if the teams that are at the bottom of the lottery are the ones that need it the most like I don't know that

That's the case this year the tanky. Yes, like look at Indiana for example

They're the worst record in the league and obviously they've been bad this year

But are they really a team that is like bad and stuck and needs talent? Right. I would argue no

They don't they're in a gap here. They're in a gap here and I I think the gap year is like

Actually pretty dangerous that allows teams to like accelerate build on two timelines and then be good for

Extended like I think that can actually be really damaging compared to a Brooklyn or a Washington or I guess Brooklyn really is the one

That would need it the most Washington. Yeah made some trades that they probably wouldn't have made if there were different rules

because they're going to vault themselves into

I would say at least plain contention next year if that higher with tray young and Anthony Davis and a top five pick this year

And you know all the other young players they've collected

Sacramento certainly needs help

Utah is not going to be a bad team next year. No, Dallas is I mean, they're kind of in a weird situation because of their previous

Management group sold a bunch of picks and they have basically Cooper flag and nothing else for the future except for

Derek Lively who's had obviously a lot of injuries

But also this year's pick and then they owe their pick for the next several years after

But my point with all this is that I just don't know that the current lottery system is helping the teams that need it most right now because

Teams are strategically worse even though they're not actually worse right and the lottery system has pushed the worst team in the league

To the number five pick the last four or five years in a row. Yeah, so I'm not sure that the current

Like situation solves that either

Would you do and so like what are some other solutions? Would you do

Just completely flat lottery odds would you do no lottery anymore? Like I'm not sure what the best solution is

And I think that's why it's hard

But I will say that

introducing

All these other rules and complications. I think that just like

Creates more problems than the solution necessarily needs. Yeah, the one thing I do like about this

Um, or that I think could be useful

And I'm curious what you guys think about this too is a lottery for each pick as opposed to right now the system is

Lottery for the first four picks and then it's descending order. Yeah, I think that could be an interesting way to help teams because

One it could allow teams to jump up from you know 10 to five or six or

12 or 14 or whatever if they extended to 18

Which could be which could be dangerous. You could have teams falling

But I think that would disincentivize the losing because right now as we've talked about with

The bulls or even even the top four teams like the lowest the worst record can fall is to five

Okay, but in if you did a random drawing for every single pick the lowest the worst team could fall would be

To 18 which I think is too far. Yeah, but

I think that would disincentivize the egregious losing because there just isn't

Like you don't have the floor argument you have the upside argument still

But you don't have the floor argument anymore. I think that would take away some of the incentive to lose

Um, so I think that's interesting, but if you're gonna do that, I think 18 teams is way too many

Yeah, maybe you just do that for the top 10 picks or something

Well, there's just so much here and it's like we could probably talk about this for a full hour

I just don't know my big picture is like I just don't know how much any of this actually solves the major issue

And I don't know that the current system is solving that either

Dude, I just wait why you were speaking about that all I was thinking about was gambling would go

Raising right now if you can have a lottery for each pick

Going up like your top 12

Listen, that is that would be must see television

I'll be tuned in man, and I would love to see smiles on bet three six five on that

That would be amazing to look at you to read me on this show

I don't hate the idea of a playoff for the draft

I also that's what some people are throwing out like bottom eight as a playoff for number one draft position

I'm just playoff for there. Yeah. Yeah, okay. I doubt players would care. Yeah, you know

What's the actual incentive for them? Yeah, what's there for the player's on expiring contract

We're like I'm about to get up out of here while I'm going to be oh, this is what you comment sex and playing 48 minutes

You make it a tournament, but the one on one is the executives. Oh god

Your vice vice vice vice vice obvary is it gets mine those guys go at it whoever gets that to 10 points

That's who gets well, and I mean the idea that goes is talking about as far as like extending the number of

picks that are that have their own lottery as opposed to just the top four of them right now

teams like the bulls that are

Something between stuck in the middle and super happy to be in the middle

That would that would work in their favor. Yeah sure was the current system

And I think that's like worth rewarding because theoretically that is the best

approach, but the problem is like

It's not that the bulls are the only team that has this approach right now

It's just that they're the only team that isn't strategically losing so if you remove the strategic losers

And now you put all those teams in the category of like ethical winners even if you're not

Making it to the playoffs or the play-in

That group gets a lot more crowded and inevitably you still have the same amount of just bad teams right

They're just bad, but still trying which I think is better

But it again doesn't accomplish this idea of we need to actually help the teams that are bad get the most talent

And again, I just don't know that any of these solutions really do that

We got to knock out our last ad break. We'll come back on the other side a few more thoughts because there was also some interesting stuff from Mark Steinagic

Fisher about what the players association has in terms of ideas to fix tanking

And I like some of those better than the the Board of Governors idea is that sounds sweet and about

So last ad break. We'll come back on the other side. We'll talk a bit more about that

And of course we'll get to some tank spins hit the like button is free. You're right back. Hey K-101

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CGO Bulls post game we're on along

Justin and the chat saying the Bulls look like strategic losers every third quarter

Nope that's just when their opponent starts trying

So in addition to Shams reporting what the Board of Governors has been talking about

and coming up with these three comprehensive different ideas

to adjust the lottery so that they can as Adam Silver himself said the other day

Fix it full stop

He did

None of those three ideas sound like fixing it full stop

Don't stop

So simultaneously Jake Fisher and our guy Mark Stein

Subscribe there so to stay access to timeline

had additional intel about the players association proposing a three-pronged approach

to the ongoing taking and draft lottery discussion

uh

Financially rewarding wins and penalizing losses

Flattening the lottery odds and

Strictly enforcing meaningful penalties

In additioning to flattening of the odds and expanded their expanding the lottery to 18 teams

Players association proposed odds

For the league's bottom 10 teams being said at seven percent and said eight and the remaining eight should be at three points

I'm point three points up and five percent at landing number one overall pick

Lastly, here's where it gets interesting the union and other league figures are pushing

To employ additional penalties to punish blatant tanking such as reducing a team's lottery odds

Moving their pick to the end of the lottery or the end of the first round or stripping them of their first round selection

The union has also suggested distributing national TV revenue tied to regular season team performance

and conference seating

Similar to English Premier League soccer where each higher

Seed would earn an additional 10 million of TV revenue now. I know why you like it

I get it now if there were anything that would make Grandpa Jerry want to care more about winning

Paper to chain to chain is right now he just happily collects his big fat check at the end of every year

That the bulls aren't a lottery paying team from the NBA teams who do pay the luxury tax yeah that system to me

Is busted and stupid as hell and very aggravating as a bulls fan who hasn't seen his team paid lottery tax in oh

Frick it luxury tax if fricking forever

The problem with that though is that just like the value of a superstar player is greater than any

Dollar amount that any team could be fined. It's true. Like it's true getting Victor woman Yama or Michael Jordan in the draft

Is worth more than 10 million dollars a year. That's a fact

So that and that's why you're seeing teams eat these fines right now because they don't care because it's gonna help them get a star

We're just gonna make them way more money. So I just don't know

That any of these I don't know that there is a solution and I think frankly

I don't know that we're in need of one because like I think the the lottery odds probably need to be

Changed a little bit here, but like this is an egregious outlier tank season that we're experiencing right now because of the the quality of the straffed

Last year

It wasn't like I guess last year was uh a little bit like it with Cooper

The year before that was not like that at all with like the Risa Shea

Reachepard elixir draft like right it just kind of depends on the draft and I think

Overcorrecting on

What we're seeing this year when I think you're also seeing an increase incentive to tank because everybody knows that the rules are gonna change

And this is their last chance to do it. Mm-hmm. I just think

It's going to create more problems than it solves and then in three more years whenever expansion happens

There's gonna be a whole extra conversation about what do they need to do fix this problem and that problem that they've created

I just think they need to be

Thinking very carefully about like what actually are the problems and how do you address those as opposed to

Tanking is a problem. We need to like that. Just why are teams tanking?

Because they want to get a high-level talent like who needs a talent? Why how do we help those teams like that those

Are the questions they should be asking not?

Is taking a problem yes or no and if so why how do we stop that because that's like a stain on the competitive integrity of the league?

I get it. I agree with that. It's not fun

I don't think that's how it should be necessarily

But I don't know that you can legislate away losses and a league where there's a loser of every game

Get goat in the room where it happens the room where it happens the room where it happens

Well our guys say sorry. I like sports tanking is bad sportsmanship

I'm to a point. I agree sportsmanship. Okay, but I like the players are out there the players are playing

Tanking is an organizational thing. Yeah, and sportsmanship be damned

If it's in your team's best interest to lose to maximize odds to get a franchise quality talent

Because your team is in a position where it desperately needs one

That's what teams will do or at least that's what the smart teams. So or you could or you could remove

the correlation or the connection between

Record and draft slot. Okay, and then you could do something like the wheel which I don't know if we've talked too much about in this show

But like that's something that Mike Zarin who's a executive with the Celtics came up with like 10 or 15 years ago or something

And it's like a 30 year wheel where you're assigned a pick for each year and you just go with it and like it has come

It's completely independent for the record. It's laid out for 30 years in the year 2042 the bulls off the first overall pick in the year

2061 of the third overall pick and that's just how it goes throughout the wheel

And it completely divorces

You're the quality of your team from where you draft. Okay, and so that takes out that strategy

And you can I don't know what that would mean for trades like can you trade draft slots with teams? Yeah

But you could do it that way or you could just say there is

No lottery at all and it's just the worst team gets the number one over a pick and remove the lottery element of it

I think you'd see a lot less of the like you'd see you'd still see some jockeying between teams

But you see a lot less of the egregious fall off

Never see a team tank out of the play in because you would move up one spot to do it

So I think that probably but you just you cannot get rid of

Tanking when or you get rid of the draft all together because

Then you just like let teams sign these guys in phrasiancy

Again, I think that would kill trades and I just think that would be bad for the league

But like if you are so anti-tanking

That you want to completely remove the incentive to lose

Period you just have to get rid of the draft because that's the only way to do it

I say dude how about

The worst team gets the number one pick that's bar none and then you do a lottery from two on down

For the rest of those things kind of interesting yet or maybe in the bottom four are in order and yeah

Like because again only one team can be the worst team. I don't care how much tanking you do

How bad is your are only there can only be like the pace your net

Xard's battle right now. It's pretty epic. Yeah, Kings of rattle up the win. It is but there can still only be one

So french bulls fan in the chat. So could we make a climb to my bad climb

Could we make a rule that if you've been in the playoffs just once in the 10 years you get the first pick

Although there is I like that

I just want to add in the MLB draft like for the white sock specifically because they are a

Non-revenue sharing team so they don't get other teams revenue. They're they're a big enough market

Since they got the number one pick in this upcoming draft

The highest they can pick in the next year if they're picking the top six is ten. Yeah, ten and below

So I mean they kind of get iced out make sure there be like maybe

You know if the hawks or whatever or Pacers this year better example get the number one pick should they

Only be able to draft like ten next year should they be locked out of a top position?

So there's uh

Sorry, yes, no, I just wanted to send some love to to clean yeah, yeah

Because I don't know if y'all been watching but he's been going through it without his team has been acting

Operating man show some love of a bad clip dog and make sure you're watching his stuff for you too

He is going through it. That is a fan going through things watching his team

Not be good. So shout out to clean man for always rolling with us, bro

And I'm glad Clem brought that up because there is one solution that I

Haven't it's like there's a long proposal. I've read the whole thing

But it's called the cola system carry over lottery allocation

And I think it actually over ice is probably my favorite solution

There's a reddit post that explains three of the like main things which I'll read

But there's a whole proposal about it. You can just search it the cola lottery system

But basically he this person writes the system is explained

Everyone who misses the playoffs gets the same amount of tickets once you're eliminated losing extra games gives you nothing extra

There's no reason to tank after you're clearly out tickets carry over or roll over

So if you don't win a top pick this year you keep your tickets and add more next year

So a team that's been bad for multiple years slowly accumulates a huge pile of tickets and eventually it becomes very likely to win

Winning resets or reduces your tickets to keep it fair if you win the number one pick your tickets reset to zero

If you win two three or four your ticket stash gets cut down by a big percentage

And if you do well in the playoff your ticket stash also gets reduced because you're clearly not

Week so basically cola rewards teams that are bad for a long time and or unlucky unlucky in past lotteries

And it reduces tanking because before you're eliminated you still want to make playoffs

um

And after you're eliminated you can't approve your odds by losing more so it doesn't actually help

Teams so I think this is like my favorite thing that I've heard of so far because it basically

Helps the teams that are in need of it the long time that I wrote this thing about how

I don't want to say we're going over time and you can do that

We got a minute. Oh, they're doing what I was told they told us how we got to do it, but go ahead

Oh, you know here well here. Let's go to overtime. Okay, you see that all C-A-G-O dot com with a conversation with a team ladies and gentlemen

If you're watching on one of our streaming partners, shout out to you go here go

No, I'm just gonna say like one of the things that we talked about today and

One of the things that I've talked about

Before is that I think helping teams build through the middle is kind of

An ideal approach because it helps the teams that are actually trying and then also multi-year record

Helps teams because it theoretically looks at how teams have performed historically

And you talk about the pastures this year. There were a 55 win team last year whatever it was

They're clearly not a team that really needs it now. That could affect teams that have a star loop leave and free agency

So there's obviously complications there

But I like this system because it basically

Rewards the teams after extended periods of not being good or not being lucky

It puts them in a better position to get lucky and that's kind of what that that takes away some of the like

Extreme maneuvering that you're seeing from a lot of these teams right now and I think ultimately that's kind of the point is

You want to help the teams that that need help the most? Mm-hmm

Justin in the chat say but it should be a premier team in the league. We shouldn't even care about tanking

All these are facts. Yes. Yes. It is an ideal world. Where are we in reality? Yeah, they're not a premier organization in the league

Because they're run by people who don't care about winning

So if that's the case and you desperately need young talent

Then you got to care about losing unfortunately cola and tell the system changes. Mm-hmm with that

How about a tank spinner too, Sean? How do we do on legs?

We are currently at 48 likes that means we have

Four tankethon spin. Let's go. I'm really 55 is not without let's not 48

Maybe we have four right now can get to five. Okay. Okay. Do we need a drum roll?

We just need to remind you got to hit the reset button. Oh, I will

Oh, brother

We need to remind people that the bulls are eliminated. They are done the lottery

So the more tank spins that we have tonight the better. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, it's official

I'd rather be talking about our playoff rotation right now, but we're not

All right, so bulls have moved up one spot with the lost tonight. I have a game ahead of the box

Let's go currently at nine. Are we ready for the first spin three ready, baby two one

And

Up nine spots is number two. All right. Are we ready for spin number two?

Baby, maybe two three two one

Stay at nine

How about the hawks getting the second overall pick there from New Orleans and that's him in Indiana

And is that the Derrick Queen pick that is the trade in a case at no thanks

I'll stay

Are we got two more spins? Okay, we got two more two more. No, no, no

Trades time to charm

Bulls ain't out again with Brooklyn getting the number one spot. They'll stay in the railman hanging out

Yeah, the second middle and Dallas jumping up a couple of spots

So that that's 14 continues being rewarded with four picks right there. All right. All right, and this is our final spin

Nine likes so I don't I don't think we're getting up to 55

Unless people really come in strong here at the end final spin three last one two one

Yeah

All right, all right number two we'll take that we'll take that all right

So let's just who would you take number two? So okay, I was about to ask

If the bulls are at two who do you hope the team with the number one pick takes slash who do you hope to be on the board at two

I think the band says I think the band says to me number one. Yeah, I think so he is getting closer and closer to consensus

We'll be the number one pick regardless of which team is picking yeah

I'll take boozer. I'll happily take boozer. I'll take boozer

I'll take Peterson as well. I am not picky

Give me any one of those guys, man. All right. I would take anybody in the top four. I'm a little

Uh-oh. I think I would go boozer. I think I would go boozer. Okay. All right. You go boozer

I have questions about Peterson. I have questions about all of them honestly. I don't think any of them are like

Cooper flag level. Okay. I don't own wimpy. Okay, but I think they're I mean demands uh

Like if you get a player like that at the three who can score defend

Like that could be transformative player. Yeah, boozer. It's like boozer, man

I mean, he's just a winner and he's an incredibly smart player. He's so big physical

Dude who's a lot is down to the three. Yes, could just wear number five. So I don't have to get a new jersey

That's right. I don't know. We've still got my boozer jersey

And you know what all it also works because what I've really truly like about him is the like you said if it's a cavity

All the other stuff the IQ, but he can really shoot free throws. Yeah, and for me that is huge

So all that physicality means I'm going to the line and when I'm getting to the line

I'm going to hit at least 80% of my shots up here. That's colossal. That's that's big for the for anybody

Tonight but came back and made an even bigger pair. Yes

And then you have Peterson who obviously has had like the very weird

Kindery and the whip ramp and all that stuff

But the talent is undeniable

You watch some of his high school tape and it's like the athleticism there is just unbelievable

But is a six five scoring guard like I don't know. I just like you just have to be

Kobe or Booker or something or

Are you like I don't know like what's the tier of player where it's worth it to take a swing on a scoring guard like that

Yeah, I don't know and then you obviously have Caleb Wilson who's

Had the broken thumb I think it is, but just incredible athlete incredible motor long athletic

But not really like a foundational score by any means

But just transformative defensive player. So there's a lot of good options up top

I know Peterson average 25

But I don't think he's like an ant level player where I mean these shooting is like I mean unbelievable

How good of a score and shooter is true not a great passer at least from what I've seen so far. I think he was better in high school at that

but I mean just

Is that something you'd be willing to take a risk on at that spot?

Any of some physical limitations and like saw Robbie or Abby Hummel talk about how in high school

He was just more explosive. So is that something too that even though the shooting right now is pretty decent

And I know he can attack the rim decently. You know can he even take a step further with his athleticism

How do you think Booser compares to Paulo because he might not compare to Booser, but thinking of just former Duke

I think it's an interesting comp um, I think he's better

Significantly um, I think he's a much smarter player. He's better rebounder better fender

um

But not as much of like a

Isolation score, but like that's not really working for Paulo in the NBA like you don't want to be

Like an elbow jump shot guy. I think Booser's gonna be a little bit more

Versatile and like plug and play than Paulo has been, but that's not I mean, Paul is still super young

He could yeah, yeah changes game, but that's kind of I think he's a higher level prospect right now

Find a the chat saying if we drafted Darren Peterson

We would have to let him control the show Booser seems like he would fit

With what we have them control the show dude. Yeah

The bulls don't have a show right now. Sorry coming attractions for

The show this year

Last few years has been the Duncan race all right

He can control that he can control the floor too

Yeah, man, I love Booser. I really do. Yeah, Timothy Jones saying don't care. Take the best player. Yeah

That too that all that as well

If the bulls get the top four pick and try and draft her fit

You're fired, but do you trust them to pick the best player? I mean right now like especially if it's

Vert, you know Peterson or Booser. I don't think there's a clear

No, well, there's also not a clear consensus between this for like is Booser or Peterson better like right sort of a toss up

Already honestly if it

Close your eyes and point if it's if it's this crew. Yeah, yeah

We can all form our opinions of who we want to take sure, but uh, yeah, no

But again, does that mean that I don't care about the bulls jumping up because I don't trust them to make a draft pick correctly

Absolutely not

The least the less you trust your front office to draft correctly the higher you should want them to be picking training wheels

Simple concept hard for something to grasp right suppose give it to

With that we'll get out of here for tonight bulls back at it and Memphis tomorrow night

Beat up on the Grizzlies a week or so ago. We'll see what happens tomorrow night in

Again with again, it's a pretty significant tankathon standing

Stakes and proportions, but Grizz is still stuck on 25 wins right or 24

24 29 all right

We'll be here for live post game after that one in the meantime. Don't forget to read good stuff

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