C.O.C. #16 -Paranormal Scares with Ms. Sam

1:00Welcome back to Cryptids and Cold Ones. I'm John. I'm Evan. And there's no Kyle. But we do have a guest. We have an interim Kyle. Interim Kyle. Her name is Sam. Yes. Hi Sam. Hi. Sam is also our special guest. She she seen to sight and she also seen me screw up. So this is this is the second time we're going to do this. How's keeping. House keeping. Maybe if you're being no. Yes. Yes.

2:00Oh, you'll be able to find out of our socials in the show notes. It will not be the link tree anymore. It will be our new site and submission form. It's pretty cool. Check it out. Over the last few days put together. It probably took me four or four and a half hours to do it. And tweak it here and there. But there is a citing submission form. There is an option for you to request coming on the show. You can listen to episodes directly from it. Plus it has all of our social links on it. So it turned out pretty pretty good. So I hope everyone enjoys it. You can also get to our. I know I do from there.

3:03Yeah. I think that's about all I have to put out. That that'll be cool. So. Whenever whenever you guys are ready, I will pass the reins over to Evan. What's that? It's all you. Take it away. Are you there, John? Oh, okay. I'm going to give you a brief introduction to Sam who I often call Miss Sam because she happens to be my son's scout leader. That is how I know her. We met about three years ago.

4:05I noticed she had a cryptid bumper sticker on her car. And as a result, I mentioned that I got this podcast when we started doing it. I shouldn't say I got this podcast. It's really a team effort. But regardless, I mentioned the podcast. Yeah, because I recognized that we're the same. We're the same type of weird. And she's my people. So. I think I'll let my stories speak for themselves. Okay. Sounds like plan. So. I guess starting out. I know you said you have several experiences. I would like to start with the earliest one.

5:08Now, how old were you at the time of that first experience? I'm sorry. I'd be going here. I should mention that Sam has had three paranormal experiences. Anyway, sorry. Sam, go ahead and explain when I hold you were. And I guess where the sighting took place. Yeah. Now, I know I haven't been fortunate enough to have a cryptid run. Yeah, I'm hoping so hoping. I was about 15 in my family home. I happened. About 10 o'clock at night. My sister and I were home alone. Which at my age, we were fine. Our neighbors kept an eye on us. We were perfectly safe.

6:08But we were just getting ready for bed. We had school the next day. And me being the teenager, I was playing on my phone. I wasn't going right to bed. So I wasn't asleep. I hadn't. A woken in the middle of the night and to this happening. I was fully awake. Okay. Now, I should ask. What was the most important thing to do? I was like, was this like typical for you? Or was this like a first time this was happening? Where you pretty routine like. We go to bed. Mom, dad or at work. It's fine. Right. Like, were you just normally. That was normal situation for you. We're like, we're dead out or anything or on edge. Because. This was different than your normal day. Oh, yeah. I was like, I'm. At that point in life and time my parents were late. As long as you were in your bed, getting wound down. Ready to go to sleep. We have faith in you that you're not going to stay up to one

7:10three o'clock in the morning. Which most nights I was very good about. Excellent. Excellent. So. So I guess we've established that there's this wasn't a good day for you by any means. No, very typical. Okay. So. You said you're going to bed. I guess describe the area of the home. That this sighting took place. And I know you said it's your bedroom. The area throughout the entire sighting. If it moved around or whatever, where was this happening? Yeah. No, so. My bed was parallel to my door at the time. So it was you walk into my door and it was one two. You can sit on my bed. So I was facing in my headboard was up against the wall. That connected with that door.

8:10And my parents, my room was on the other side of that with my sister's room being directly across the hall from me. Our room to mirror each other. So I think she technically had the mass for bedroom when we measured it by like an inch on either side. So no big deal. But her and I also had like a shared closet that was on that same wall. So our doors were directly across from each other. She could get into my room through the door through the closet where I could get into her room and through the closet. I really wanted. Okay. And we read the very end of the hallway because of that. Okay. So I guess. What was the first thing you noticed that you said something is off? Like this is there's something happening different. Yeah, I heard like shuffling coming down the hallway. Like someone was walking down the hallway.

9:11I should say shuffling because it was it was like a normal walk. I was like, I'm not sure if there was a moment. I actually thought one of my parents had come from work early. Which is a crazy thought they worked together. They carpooled. So. Both of them would have had to have been in the house. But it was it was just simply one person. So it was probably why my my 15 year old brain was like, did one of them come home. But it sound like someone was walking down the hallway. So I had been laying on my stomach, playing on my phone. I had to face the door. Expecting to see one of them standing there explaining why they were home. Because I did not receive detect message that they were on the right home. But I did not see one of my parents. And I went, okay, that's weird. Maybe it was adults. I would have heard of it. Because I, but I didn't, I didn't hear their nails.

10:13Because we had hardwood. So I would have heard them. They're, their paws obviously sound very different than shoes. Yeah, they do the little clicky thing. So. Yeah. Yeah, and I didn't hear that. So, but my dog's hadn't reacted either. So I kind of was like, okay, well, no one's in the house, you know, I'm trying to talk to myself down. And I see a dark shape solid, solid black shape. No discernible features. But it is like a human head shape, like a really bad back lighting of someone who doesn't understand to not be backlit. Just kind of do like the parent here around the corner, check on your kid thing, and then dip back. And it happened and maybe this span of like 20, 25 seconds. It was, it wasn't slow, but it wasn't extremely, it was just like a, wasn't a quick thing either.

11:15Oh, that, that's creepy in itself. So you got a good look at whatever this was, correct? Yeah. How, how would you, I guess, describe it from a perspective of like it's, you said it's black. Like, why is anything like that? I guess, give me the best, like, say you're trying to describe a crime suspect. To police officer, how would you describe this, whatever you've seen? Yeah, okay. So just under six foot, because a standard house doorways is six foot. And this was towards the top of it, whereas my dad's like five, seven, five, eight.

12:16So I knew it wasn't my father and my mom is shorter than that. So definitely wasn't my mom. I was like, I'm not sure if I was going to be here. And this thing, there would, I would say like military cut if, if any hair. Okay. Because like the edges of this, while the, while the main body of them was solid. And again, I just saw maybe like shoulders off the main body solid and not see through the edges were almost. Like, grainy, like an old time TV or like static. Catch. Well, that's interesting. The static. Yeah. I'm. I, I guess I've never heard that before. And I find that extremely interesting. Sorry, sorry to like just pick out that one detail, but it's just interesting in itself.

13:20Yeah, you're right. Now, you would say this is a, would you describe it, I guess, as a shadow into tear shadow bean. Yeah, the phrase that comes to mind for me, because of a TV show, you swatches like a shadow person. Okay. And, uh, it kind of like, like think Peter Pan in the animated series his shadow, that solidity. And no, no discernible features. I mean, he wasn't wearing a hat like Peter shadow, but that, that solid. Gotcha. And did now you said your, your sister was president in the home. Did she see anything or have any sort of experience that evening? Yeah. So I'm in the middle after it had disappeared out of my doorway. I'm in the middle of trying to talk myself down.

14:21Because my heart starts racing. I start freaking out. And I hear my sister from her room and her. Her bed and her vantage point from where she would have been. She's on the far wall of her bedroom. Towards the, the hour wall of the house. Her beds, if we were in the same room. My foot of her bed, we've been touching the side of her bed, because hers was actually. Her perpendicular to her bedroom door. But it was centered in a way under the window where she could see a little bit ways down the hallway versus me where I can only see her bedroom door. And I hear her go. Did you see that? That's creepy. And it was distinctly her voice, but I am in such panic that it takes me a minute to realize is that actually my like, is that my sister? Or did I even hear my sister? And then I hear.

15:21I don't know if I get that's that's my sister. And I went, yes, in a very, very shaky voice. And we start just like kind of whisper talking to each other like magically this thing's not going to be able to hear us if it's still in the area. And we're, what do we do? What was that? Is that mom? No, no, no, it's not mom. And somehow I convinced her. Yes, I am the older sibling. I convinced her to make the run for it to my room so that we're neither of us are alone. So she pops out of the darkness of her room. It runs across the hallway, which is slightly lit by a night light from our kitchen, which is at the opposite end. So it's it's peering in a little bit of like enough if we got up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom. We could see, but not enough that it's going to be disruptive to to sleep or give you like great vision.

16:25Which is what makes the moving shadow even weirder. Yeah, because again, we're the only ones in the house and it was way taller than even our dogs. We didn't have a window go. So she went across jumps in my bed. We're both under the covers and doing that the stereotypical thing where we're laid back, staring at the ceiling, clutching my blanket and weren't shoulder to shoulder. I'm freaking out thinking of what to do. So I got to remind you on your persuasive skills for convincing your little sister to run across the halls. You first off just just got to give you a little credit there. I appreciate that. I like the way you put it better than the shame that I have for it as not being a group one. I will definitely go on. That my sister is definitely the braver of the two of us.

17:26She's the one with the backbone. Absolutely. To this day, she's the one with the backbone. Alright, so we're we're still whisper talking because we don't want to like attract whatever word. They thought it crossed my mind. Whoever. So right now, I disapp故ing the first announced that I assumed that this was. And while were doing that. And this was. Music because we're not looking in. EEJ muff Aㄦ- I would ask at this point. Were you thinking this was something. Uhm, I guess paranormal or were you thinking it was. Like an intruder in the home. My initial thought was admit. that's just who I am. But I've watched an upshows, I've done enough stuff, the research of my own to be like, okay, what is that actually? Like, I know that if you're in a space that has a lot of exposed

18:27electrical wires or certain types of piping that that can give you that that creepy sense of being watched, I know that that attributes to those things. So it's not necessarily indicative that you're actually having a paranormal experience. None of those things were prevalent. Our home have exposed piping or exposed wiring in our living spaces. We did have an unfinished basement, but where we were living, everything was up to code and appropriate. So it wasn't anything like that. And while I'm trying to talk myself down, I did have to run through the possibility, well, I did hear footsteps. Is this a person? But my dogs did not react to this thing. Yeah. And we had a bulldog and a golden retriever. Absolutely. Our golden retriever is the worst, or I'm sorry, he was the worst attack dog on the planet because he just wanted you to pet him. So if there was someone in the house, he's definitely going to be going up to them,

19:32bringing his favorite stuffed animal at the time and wagging his tail. Oh, crazy. And I did not. The only stirring I heard from them was I could hear the bulldog snoring in the living room. And I could, and I could only imagine that the golden was with him because he wasn't in one of our bedrooms. Yeah, I'd you. So let me, let me get you back to where you were. You said you guys were both in bed staring at the ceiling. Yeah, because we couldn't, we couldn't even bring ourselves to look at each other. And me, especially because I didn't want to turn my head towards the door. Makes sense because yeah, with her, with her jumping in bed, she, she was the closest to the door now. So we're staring at the ceiling. I'm contemplating do I call our neighbor? Because we're just scared. And the next thing we see is something, some disund discernible shape,

20:35fly over the bed. So it crosses our vision and hits my vanity, which is at the foot of my bed, or facing the foot of my bed. Like I can walk around my bed all the way around. It was facing that back wall. And we hear the vanity near glass shatter and all of my knickknacks that were sitting on my dresser go to the ground. We then pull the covers over our head and cry ourselves to sleep. So how pissed were your parents the next morning of the broken stuff? That's the crazy part. We woke up the next morning and there was no evidence of anything that we heard and saw happening happened. The mirror was not broken. My knickknacks were not scattered across the floor, even though we distinctly heard them fall. I remember thinking that I was

21:39how am I going to replace my name? I remember for Christmas snow globe. That was a freaking limited condition. And it was in perfect condition. The only question my dad had when getting us up for school the next day was why are you guys in the same room? That's wild. Like yeah. So you couldn't tell what was flying across the room? No. And there is that that's that's absolutely wild. I mean, like, yeah, and nothing was missing after that. Just just a time loop, he said. Yeah. Oh, I never thought of that. I didn't think about that either. That's an interesting explanation. So I guess it would be really weird though. We had been living in that house since I was 12. So it would have been three years. And this is the first

22:46like tangible thing that we could say was an experience. Now, what do you, I guess, perceive what you saw to be just a shadow person? Or do you think it was something else? I think it was a shadow person. And I don't know if that's because of the, again, the TV show that I was watching at the time in the way that medium had a explained it. But the way the way it made me feel definitely resembled with how she explained a shadow person, just that the sense of dread and oddly enough, like shame, like you just feel awful in this thing's presence. So it was in I thought at the time it was just because I was so

23:48afraid. But my sister and I had had conversations about this older. And we thinking back, we both remember those feelings and those weren't, those weren't present at the time. It was a typical day, like nothing bad had happened. We didn't like lost anybody recently for a random bout of brief to hit us or anything like that. But I do, like I don't believe it was anything demonic. Gotcha. No, it just it was like a shitty person. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh wait, why am I sorry? You guys nevermind Kyle has a potty mail. Yeah, no, you can swear as much as you want. So when, when you like look back at that experience, did any of those feelings start coming on prior or like was it not until you saw the entity?

24:54Was until I saw them. Gotcha. That's wild. Yeah. Like that whole experience is wild. Like the concept, even considering the thought process of even a time loop, like because everything wasn't destroyed that you thought that's I'm befuddled by it. Like there's no, like I can't thank many reasonable explanations for that experience because you have two witnesses who experienced the same thing. Like you got me stumped, Sam. You got me stumped. I believe you. Well, I mean, I know you too. So I don't feel like you would, you know, you're not just a random guest. I know you. So Yeah, no, no, I'm not just seeking clothes. Exactly. So I guess

25:56moving forward a little bit actually before I get into that, how's that you lived in? Obviously you've done some research on stuff like shadow people and, you know, hauntings and paranormal activity yourself already at that point. But later on after that experience, was there anything that you looked into to find out if there was a reason that this was taking place in your house? Yeah, I definitely tried to because I wanted to know like, is this something that's going to happen in our house frequently now? Is this a thing that we should be expecting from it? Or like did I bring something home? So I did, I did, yeah, no, I did look into it, but this is it was a newer part of the town versus the area that

26:57the older area of where I live. The home was built in like the 60s. We actually, the original four plans for the home were found when we were remodeling my parents room in their closet. That's awesome. Yeah, and it was even back when the town went by a different name. So it was really cool historical document, which I went with my mom when she went to our historical library to look into it because we have one library in the area. That's its thing. It does all the genealogy stuff. It does all the area stuff. It's where I went to do research for my high school project on the fact that this was a logging town. And that's how it started. But this wasn't in that area where the town started. The town is much older than the 60s. It was in a poor shoe neighborhood that was built on as the town expanded from its its logging route. And it became more cityized.

28:02I don't know if that's word, but if you know, yes, it's a word. If George Bush can do it, you can do it too. Yeah. So it's a lot. We couldn't find anything. I even asked my dad like, did the realtor disclose something to you that you like didn't tell me in my sister because we're a little baby. And he said, no, he's like, I'm not going to buy a house for that happen because I would give him the TVGB's. Yeah, that's fair. So moving forward from there, did you have any other experiences in the home? Yeah. When I was 19, I had another big experience. Between between 15 and 19, there were like smaller things like noises that we couldn't necessarily tie to a specific thing, but we kind of just shrugged them off as like the house is settling. It's an old house. It's going to make weird creaking noises.

29:07But I was like, I was 19. This was earlier in the evening. Like I had six or seven, but I was home alone this time. My room had been rearranged because I did that numerous times at 3am when I was bored. And this time my bed was in the corner where my vanity used to be. So it was furthest from the door it could get, which kind of became a theme of my bedroom rearranging after that incident. I did not want to be close to my door. I can imagine. Yeah, no. And I remember I was sitting on my bed, had my bedroom light on. I was watching Inuasha on TV. Like I know I can know exactly the anime I was watching at the time. And I just froze. Something didn't feel right. And the hair on the back of my next shut up. And I felt like I

30:16was being watched. And then I felt like I walked in the room alone. And that's terrifying when you are, you know, you're alone. Yeah. And I'm just about to get off my bed to just get out of my room because my room is the furthest corner of our home. I am, if you were in my bedroom at that time, you were in the furthest you could be from the rest of the house ever. So I wanted to get kind of closer to the front door and go be with my dogs because they made me feel safe. Yeah. So I was going to go to the living room. So I started getting off the bed and the beds started shaking violently. Like I could hear and feel that the, I had a heavy wood

31:20bed frame. And it was a queen sized bed. So not small. It was a heavy wood frame bought from Art Van back when Art Van was friggin fantastic. And it, it shook. I could hear my headboard hitting my wall behind it. And it felt like an earthquake. The closest thing I think is a, as a Michigan or I can get to feeling an earthquake. Because I did, I did look it up afterwards. And there was not one in our area. And I just remember starting to cry in scream. And then I did the closest thing that I ever done to praying. And I prayed to my grandfather who had passed away the year before. And I remember asking him, Papa, make this stop. And everything stopped. Wild. The sense of dread went away. I felt like a whoosh of air. Like my room had just been like,

32:24like an airlock had opened up. And it just like all of that bad stuff was gone. And I felt peaceful. So the only thing that into this day, I rather believe that. So if you guys have other theories, you're welcome to them. But I fully believe that my grandfather sent whatever that thing was from my last 15 away. Because it never came back. I never had another experience in that home. And I never saw that thing again. Did you see anything or was it just like, like, the movement of the bed and the feelings that time, the movement of the body and the feelings? I, there was nothing visual this time that occurred. That is. But I had a feeling it was that thing. Yeah. That is. That's an experience in itself. I mean, I think I'd probably be more anxious if

33:39I was alone. The only thing I think that would make me more anxious is if that happened when my kiddos were around. And it was just me and the kiddos, right? Yeah. And you know, I had it. I had an experience. I actually, this is just coming back to me now thinking about that. I had been hiking on some property. We have up in the great up north. And any who, the place where the cabin is on that property, there's a big hill. You've been there, John, that goes up towards the road. And there's probably about 20, 20 acres between the road, the cabins on, and then the actual road. Like it's the private drive that comes down. And then there's a big hill

34:40that goes up because you're right on a river where the cabin is situated, right? So it goes downhill. But it's a pretty steep hill. And I think my son was about two years old and he wanted to go for a walk in the woods. And I have no problem walking them in the woods. But I was kind of carrying him a little bit because the ferns in that area are pretty high. And I didn't want him to get all sorts of like wet and crud. So I'm carrying him. And we get up just past where it levels out. And it's dead silent. Which if you spend time in the woods, it's rarely ever dead silent. And it made me feel real creeped out. And I was, I never am up there without a firearm. And I can't say it was anything paranormal or bigfoot or what. But I just got this gut feeling you need to get out of here

35:42and get your son out of here. So I totally understand that like feeling of dread, you know, that you're, you explained earlier. And I think that's the closest thing that I can, and I've never felt that way on that property before. From just nothing. I mean, I've seen bear. I've been growled at by things in the woods there. But that's a different situation. They're animals, you know, where I'm like, oh, this is, this is not an ideal situation. But like this was just dead silence in the woods. And I'm like, shit. So, you know, I think your existence is never good when the woods go silent. No, no, it is not. You know, you get that. Yeah, exactly.

36:48I get goosebumps just thinking about it. You probably can't see him on the camera. Hold on. Can you see the goosebumps? Yeah. Like, it's not holding my house. I'm like thinking about it. And I have goosebumps. So yeah, no, sorry for that little tangent there. I'm not trying to hijack your show, Sam. Now you're good. It just came to mind, though. And you know, the mind wanders. That's how I do things. But so you said you didn't have any more experiences in that home. No. So you you had mentioned you had a third experience. How old were you when that took took place? I was about 20 and 21. Okay. No, eight, not 21 yet. Because I didn't start that job until my

37:56job until I was 21. So yeah, I was about I was about 19 20. So this was this was after it. And after my last experience in the home, I actually started college. Okay. And I was seeking people. So I joined the paranormal group at my college. Trying to meet like my dead people. I had been kind of made fun of and not believed on those other experiences that I hadn't that whatever. And we decided that we were going to go to Bobby Mackey's music world. Where's that? I think I heard the listeners I should say. I'm familiar with it. I believe it's on the Kentucky Tennessee border. It's right on the edge there.

38:57It's considered one of the most haunted places in America. I hate saying that's I really do because I do not care for him. But Zach Baggins did ago, Savannah's episode there. Because he had to go see the portal to hell that is reported to be at Bobby Mackey's. Good old ZB. Yeah. Well, it was it was that where we were going to go to Oh, I can't think of that name, but it was it's an insane asylum. Wavryly. Um, yes, yep. We were going to do Wavryly Hill Sanitarium. Um, and we ended up doing Bobby Mackey's because we were broke college kids and Wavryly Hills cost way more to get an official lockdown. Whereas Bobby Mackey's is open to you can pay and go to a paranormal investigation. I don't know if you can today, but at that time they were they were still very open to it. You even get a walk

39:57around with the with one of the owners who shows you all the hotspots tells you kind of what's going on there so that when you're conducting your investigation, you know where to centralize yourself. And then you get a full guided tour of the basement where the portal is. Okay. Okay. And I guess give me a little bit of background on Bobby Mackey's other than it's haunted. Like what's it said to be haunted by what's the history behind that haunting? So what drew me to Bobby Mackey is this probably my favorite part of their history is that it's always been some sort of bar. It's always been some sort of gathering a club. But during the prohibition era, it was used by the mob. And they had to speak easy and they for a little bit use it

41:04for a front. Yeah. Well, I thought that was cool because you know, mobsters are cool. Yeah, no, that definitely was it was it was always that it shoot back even back before that. It had the classic like showgirls. You think the super frilly skirts where they would dance with their fishnets on and do the lines and and that kind of stuff. They had ladies of the night who would who it's or it's it's seen a lot. But and and then eventually became music orientated and it became a it ends up bar with a really nice dance floor which used to be the stage. And then still operate again, I don't know if it's today, but at that time it's still operated as a as a bar

42:05where people during the day would go get drinks and they would listen to live music. That's cool. So while you were there, how many people were on this this in this group that you were with that you went down there with? Yeah, so it's me and two roles who I got really close to. We eventually became roommates for a little bit. So there's us three and then we and one other girl from our college. And then we had kind of partnered up like another local group had joined us like local to us not local to Bobby Mackeys. Because they wanted a bigger team, but they were already an existing team. So they we partnered with them. We didn't merge with them. They had four members as well. So there were eight of us total plus the the the owner who gave the the tour. One of the owners was there. Okay. And what time did you start the investigation like roughly?

43:14Yeah, I think we got there about seven. Seven PM. Yeah. Yeah. Because we ended the investigation, I think at like four or five in the morning. So we were there like all night. Okay. And how long did it take for you guys to start experiencing things there? The first couple of hours were pretty quiet. Like, you know, this is our first big thing. Like, we've gone to a field locally nearby one time before with a recorder, but we have equipment now because it's other group actually had legitimate equipment. I had bought a recorder to use specifically for this. So we were kind of just excited getting used to the equipment. And we kind of thought

44:18things were happening, but I think it was more just, you know, young white girl excitement. And it wasn't it didn't really get active until I wasn't really watching a clock. So I want to say we were there for hours before stuff actually happened. And it was when me and the leader of our group at the time, her and I went into the men's restroom, which back during the speak easy day was the mob's office. And her and I went in there because she's former, nope, that's not how you address that. Sorry, retired marine. Who, so she's tough. And I was the only other one brave enough to do it with her. Because he reportedly, if women entered the men's restroom because it used to be the office, he would kick you out

45:19because you are a woman. You are owned. You don't belong in my offices where I conduct business. Yeah, it was what the owner had explained to us. So in just strangely enough, the bathrooms were set up kind of like my family home from my previous experiences where the men's restroom is directly across from the women's restroom. It's the at the end of the hallway. So similar setup. And the only lights that they really left on was like the ambient lighting just enough where we didn't trip and get hurt. So we didn't sue. But it was dark. We still need to flash lights. But her and I went in there. And she's brave. She's mouthy. She's marine. So she starts mouth and off as soon as we walk in. And we're barely over the threshold. And both of us get shoved up against the wall. That's right next to the door. We feel like it by

46:24an end. Hands on. Yes, we feel hands on our shoulders. Like if you were to take your palm and push it me back, I felt that on my shoulders pushing me up against the wall and she did too. And she actually fell. The brim of her hat that she was when she was playing a baseball cap at the time. Get like flipped up. So like her face could be better seen. Because she still had her military cut. And because of it, she carried herself. She did walk to what in the dark you would mistake her for a man. Gadget. Just with the way she held herself from her military service in her head. So her brim was flipped up. What she believes was him trying to assess. Are you a woman or are you a guy? Are you allowed to be in here? I just felt shoving. I was pinned to the wall. I couldn't move. And I'm

47:29not. I mean, you can assess. I'm not a small person. I've always fluctuated between two 50, 300 pounds. I'm a big chick. I'm tall, but I'm large. So it takes a little bit of force to be able to move me. I know how to plant my foot. I kicked button powder above football. And I'm being pinned here and not able to move it. I'm shoulder to shoulder with her who should know how to defend yourself with. Like, how do you defend yourself against something you can't grab? I was going to ask, could you see anything? Is it all just like, no, I just felt oppression. And I felt the distinct shape of hands, but I can't see anything. But I couldn't, I couldn't see her. We decided we're going to go in there in the pitch dark. Like, we really want this thing to happen. Oh, because until I was about to turn on the flashlight when she first started mopping off, because I'm like, we got to catch, I got to, I want to see what's coming at me with her mouth and off like this. But

48:30I didn't even get to flick my flashlight on before we were shoved up against the wall. This wow. And we were helping her for maybe a minute and felt like someone breathed on our face. And in our ears, just heard out. And we both said, I was going to ask, is there any auditory anything? You answered it, though. That's, yeah, you know, that's really that we could hear you. We did not have our recorder going because again, I didn't have time to do anything with her mouthing off. Oh, and that happened all just boom quick. How far did you get into the room? Just over the threshold. So I'm just, I'm immediately over the threshold and she's immediately in front of me. She had just maybe half a step from me. So when we were, when we were

49:33put up against the wall, her shoulder was touching my shoulder. Yeah. See, this is why I don't want to do paranormal investigations, John. Just want to put that out there. You just need a man up, dude. You'll be all right. Bro, okay, but you and you and I'm going in that bathroom would have been absolutely fine. Well, you guys wouldn't have had this thing experience. I don't know. I still. It's strange how some hauntings go that way. How there is, you know, guys can go into a place all day long and nothing happens, but the second or woman steps in there, I'll help break loose. It's just crazy to me. Yeah. I've heard some of the history of the place or the history of the hauntings reportedly. It's probably, I mean, when's the last time you've

50:37known a man to be known as property immediately rather than as another man. Whereas a woman walks into the room, she to that time of history. We were honed. I mean, my husband so makes the joke. I have the husband ring on. I'm in power. He absolutely is joking. He's not in charge. But so I want to, so it is interesting. You're right. John, I agree with you. It is interesting, but I have to wonder if it goes back to part of that depending on the historical relevance of the haunting. Yeah, it's just, it's just weird. Like I understand, I understand the time frame thing. But it's just, it's just weird to me. Like one thing that sticks with a spirit is that. You know, right? Right. Like you, you're not, you don't have a body. You can't grab a beer. Like you don't get the luxury of the deliciousness that John is drinking right now. But you, you all man, that woman

51:41who's never done anything to me. That one. To be that, to be that miserable in your life that it you're like that as a spirit. Well, we are the source of all evil. So you said it not me just so you know, in case my wife's listening to this podcast. Right. No, no, that was totally me, totally the element. Oh, man. So did, did you guys have any other experiences throughout that that investigation? Yes, reportedly there is what one of the girls, it wasn't me's with, I didn't see it. But there's a corner of the bar that is, and funnily enough, I think they said his name was John. Again, this is over two decades to go for me. So I don't really remember. But he frequented the bar and he would always sit in that one corner.

52:46And so you, you catch him just right and he wants you to see him. He has to want you to be able to do this. You will see his silhouette with his cowboy hat sitting in the corner enjoying a beer. That is favorite bar. And one of the girls did catch him and he tipped his hat to her. I don't see that was the only one of the four of us. Yeah, we we traveled in sets of four. So our original group from our college was together and the other group was together. And we were made sure that we were in separate areas so that we weren't influencing each other. They actually started in the back rooms and we started in the main bar area, which is why we started with the bathroom. Because we're like, all right, let's get the, let's get the hyperactive stuff done. We did also make contact with a, from what the owner told us was one of the call girls.

53:48At the time, when he was Joanna, I guess she was one of their more famous ghosts. We twisted the, our flashlight, we had one of those push button flashlights. And we twisted the end of it so that it was the like the lightest you could bump it. And it would set the flashlight off. And then we set it on the floor in the middle of the dance floor. And we all took, I want to say maybe we were like a foot from the flashlight. And none of us went any closer to it. And we didn't move. We either two of us were sitting in the table chairs that were closest and the other two were sitting on the floor. And we did this so that if we were, you know, we were up walking around, we wouldn't set the flashlight off and give us, you know, false reading or whatever. And the girlfriend of our lead had the camera.

54:51Which she struggled with at first. We couldn't really get it going. And then all of a sudden the flashlight popped on. And the camera started working at the same time. And she's like, oh, I caught that on camera. And we, you know, we established with the entity, whoever it was. We did say specifically we're trying to contact Joanna. But we started very general who wants to contact us, who wants to speak, you know, whatever. Once for yes, twice for no. And if you guys are interested, I do actually have, it was uploaded to you too. I do have the link in the video is so up. I can send it if you guys want to watch it. Yes, please do. I was a little questioning. Yeah. Yes. And I want to see that. It's a really rough start. I don't, I don't talk much until it's figured out that

55:56Joanna only responds to the flashlight when I'm talking. And then our lead person has me continue the questions. And I'm like, I don't like being put on the spotlight. Like those especially after what you and I just experienced in the bathroom, I'm kind of still pissed off at you. But she again, the entity was only really responding when it was me. So, I don't think we cleaned anything like new or interesting from the conversation with her. And obviously we could only ask the guests no questions with the way that we set up. But I believe we did make contact with with Joanna at least whoever wanted to respond to Joanna that night because we did address the entity as Joanna. Now, did you go and look at, tell me about the gates of hell, I guess.

56:58You're like, how do I, how do I lead into that? Yeah. So the basement, the basement area is storage. It was also the, there's a storage room and there's also where the, the girls would get ready. So because they had a backstair well. So the interesting rooms were back there. Nothing, nothing happened in there. Reportedly, you could, you could sometimes catch glimpses of the girls like getting ready. Like you were watching a recording. But we didn't experience any of that. In the storage room, I'm going to, I'm going to save the gates of hell room for last because it got really crazy. But in the storage room, I can't remember why my memory won't go back that far, but there were the, the Spares of Children reported to be in that room. And I'd have to look it up. I should have researched that before getting on here. I'm sorry.

58:01But we sat in a circle. All eight of us with the owner and she kind of led the conversation and told us like, you need to sit perfectly still. Have your, your hands open with your palms up and sometimes the kids will hold your hand because they're lonely. Which broke my heart even as a 20 year old who had no prospects of, you know, I'm going to be a parent one day, broke my heart and several of us felt, felt small hands and our hands that night. Which nearly nearly broke every single person in the room, even if they didn't, even if they personally didn't have an experience, just, just hearing that someone else was at that moment just just broke you because because it, it felt like holding my kids hand.

59:03Yeah. The, the case of hell is literally a home of four. It's a home of four. I think there used to be on site slaughters if I remember correctly. Um, and it was also used by the month for body disposal. Oh. Yeah. So it's a person sized. Yeah. At least. Um, you can fit in there. I'm surprised you didn't try when they were there. Just I mean, anything can fit in. Um, I walking into that area that was so weird because it didn't look like part of a normal basement. You, you looked like you were walking into catacombs. But only for that part of the basement. Um, so that was really weird.

1:00:10What did they slaughter there? You said like animals. Yeah, like, like, it was a house. Oh, okay. Not not not H H. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, I get you. I was just curious like. Yeah. No. Killing random people there for no reason. Yeah. Look, the mob. Yes. Okay. Like, don't, I had a reason. It's don't mess with the mob. It's gonna kill you. You're right. I was about to crank myself. You'd correct me. Wait, because you're right. But, you know, they had their reasons. You might not agree with their reasons, but they had their reasons. It's really, it's really to avoid being killed by the mob. Just don't mess with the mob. Yeah. Then this is why with my life the way I do, I intentionally don't piss anybody off.

1:01:12I, I purposely am nice to strangers in case they're either a silly or killer or part of them up. And I'm not making that up. The valid. I don't need to be murdered. Um, I'm not. We're in the room. Nothing, nothing visual is happening. Like entity wise. But thinking back on it now with an adult brain, I have a hard time disdaining if it was the person playing it up. Because of what I learned about this person, who they are, just as a person, um, they're very theatrical. They kind of remind me of a Zach Baggins type person. So I don't, so I can't say for certain how the hell this was, but at the time, in the moment, um, we believe one of our members became possessed.

1:02:16Well, because he started being really aggressive with his girlfriend and other female members of the team. Um, nothing physical. He didn't like hit or let or drink that, but he was, he was almost growling at us when he would talk. And his eyes were, if you looked at him, it wasn't, it's like he wasn't there. So we, so it's hard to say, I don't want to, for sure, say, but he, he, we think he was possessed by, by something from the portal. Um, because it, he had started acting erratically in the kids room a little bit like he, he seemed off. And you have to pass the, the portal room to get to the, to the kids area, which then just made us post questions on the drive home,

1:03:21because we were going to camp and then we were like, we're tired. We're just going to drive back to Michigan at this. Um, on the drive home, we were talking about it, we were speculating, we were like, what if those aren't children spirits? What if it's entities from the portal that are acting as children to gain your trust, to allow for this to happen? Um, because he did, he, he was one of the people who experienced holding the hand. Yeah, I mean, demonic stuff will do whatever demonic stuff can do, to do their demonic stuff to you. That's the easiest way to say it. I mean, like, this is the same way I talk about shooting a gun, you just put your thing on the thing and pull the thing. Um, you know, I mean, it's over simplified, but I guess what I'm getting at here is that, I mean, that, that seems perfectly logical to me from my, I think that's a recently

1:04:26learned knowledge of demonic things. I've been doing some research, John, just so you know, I think that's a tactic of demonic entities to lure you in with a child like uh, you got haunting to make it so you feel at ease with what's there. Yeah, yeah, and uh, you know, stuff can get attached to you. Did that dude start acting normal when you left? He, he did after, so when you leave, um, the owner would walk you through a small little cleansing ritual that um, that with today's lens, it feels really wrong because this, this was a

1:05:30white woman advising me to do it, but it would native American ritual that, it should say, reportedly, native American ritual that they do to, to cleanse themselves when they've come in to contact with the spirit world. Um, so she walked us through doing that, um, to, to make sure that we were, we were not followed or anything was attached to us on our way home. Either makes sense, and I don't know. I mean, I, I wasn't there for said ritual, but I think if it's done respectfully, I mean, like, I think the natives knew a few things about that kind of stuff. So I mean, if you've been, I just don't, I'm not comfortable from sure saying it was an even more ritual because I don't know if this was an innate telling you guys. That's what I mean. No, I do absolutely believe the natives more understanding of that than we do. That's, that's kind of what I'm saying. So I was like, if it's a native American ritual that you,

1:06:31you've learned from somebody, yeah, I mean, feel free to use it. I mean, if it works, it works. I mean, if you don't use it, then you turn into Kyle and have something attached to you. You had demon. I mean, like, you joke about the goat demon, but like in all reality, based on what he told me and he didn't get his in-depth about it on the show. I'm pretty sure he had something attached to him for a while. So yeah, I would definitely, I don't know. I'm, I have a mixed opinion on whether I do something like that. That kind of freaks me out the, the whole paranormal stuff. That's why I've never, not that I don't believe it, like I said, I definitely have a belief in all that stuff. I think it's just like something where I'm like, I'm so sure of this that I don't really need to prove it for myself or somebody else,

1:07:31somebody else can do that. They can get attached to a demon. I believe you can, I believe you said on the show before that you don't trust it. You can't shoot it. Yeah. So you don't mess with it. Exactly. I'm really surprised John doesn't feel that way. Kyle's a skeptic. So you can just go where he wants and get demons attached to him and be like, Demon doesn't affect me because I don't believe in it, right? I'm surprised John is as open to going to places like that. I don't know. I feel like you have to be where you're at mentally and how strong will you are? Like that stuff plays into the becoming under the influence of them. Kind of we're breaking up there a little bit, but I got what you were saying, the just of it,

1:08:37that if you're strong, well, you might not be coming under the influence of that. Is that what you were saying basically? Yeah, more or less. Well, unlike the wishy wash, she is person ever. I can't even decide what I want for lunch. Like it just seems like a bad thing for me. I mean, you know how I am Sam? Like everybody is just like, I'm going to go this way. No, I'm going to go this way. So I don't know. I can understand and relate to that. Like I've admitted, I'm a huge chicken. I'm a scaredy cat and I've done it and I've survived. I fully believe you will be all right. I don't think as much gif they give you, I don't think John or Kyle are going to intentionally put you in a situation where they think you're going to get possessed or die. Oh no, I don't think they

1:09:41would intentionally do that either. There's no two people that I trust more than those two gentlemen, but they're the first person I'd call if I needed to bury a body. Both of them, I mean, like, I guess that's the best way to say it. So there's no, yeah, jk in Minecraft. In Minecraft, yes. But yeah, no, that's that's so wild experience in itself. You had some experiences. I know you were trying to tell me more about it. Like in person when you're telling me about it, but I was like, no, I need to save it for the show. And then we missed my original reactions. The first time you, ooh, that I didn't say it. Evan did my bad. I mean, it was pretty wild though. I mean, like, all of your experiences, like I would have never guessed because you were like,

1:10:44I've had some experiences, but you never were like, I have some experiences that you need to hear on my show or on your show. Oh, I'm so old. We're both having one that's interesting. I mean, the kiddo goes, well, what if I eavesdrop on your interview tonight? And I kind of, you guys will have to apologize to Kyle for me. I kind of used him as a scapegoat. I didn't want to, I didn't want to tell her that I was afraid of scaring her right before bed. Because she's getting into speaking stuff. She locked cryptids. She absolutely does. But I pulled her up like, ah, you know, your uncle, he's a marine and you know how his mouth can be. Kyle's worse. So I'd rather her not listen eavesdrop until I listen to the episode to see if it's going to be okay or not. So I did use him as a scapegoat than he's not even here.

1:11:47Kyle's not family friendly, but you know what? He definitely adds to the show in so many ways. Absolutely. No, absolutely. Honestly, like most of the stuff that you guys say is no different than crap that we would say. So I mean, again, she loves cryptids. She knows Mothman. She loves more than I do on some of the lesser known cryptids. Like she'll just pull random crap out. But we stand Mothman in this house. We joke that we worship Kathoolim. So like she's on the up and up. Man, she knows what's up. That's awesome. That is awesome. Well, do you have any other experiences that you can think of? Nothing that stands out as much as those two and then going to Bobby's. I mean, I've seen things out of the corner of my eyes as most people have.

1:12:53When we did our first little thing, when we thought we were so cool, I do believe I saw something walk across the field that wasn't human-shaped, but was bipedal, but that memory isn't as clear. So that's why I didn't share that one. And I was the only one to see it. So I could have, it could have just been my over excitement. So you didn't tell me you got into paranormal investigations either. That's wild. You know who has told me that and won't go on the show? My my counterpart there. He won't come on the show. You need to convince him to. He did he did investigate. So I mean, you convinced him to. I think so. Okay. I've put forth the first ways of skills with convincing my younger sister, Ronald

1:13:58Grassel of it. Exactly. That's what I need you to use those first ways of skills. Because he too. I'm not talking about my own case of being. He has done some paranormal investigations himself actually. So with with a team and everything. So. All right. Yeah. And he's like, I will come on the show. I'm like, why? I don't know anybody who listens to the show more than you. Just listen to yourself talk. Maybe I'll tell him to write it all down. And I'll just come back on it. I'll be his voice. I'll read it. I'm in. So he doesn't have to hear his own voice. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. No, you're welcome back. I always tell that to any of our guests. Like I'm just stoked to have people on the show. Like it's it. This is more enjoyable in some ways than writing a show.

1:14:59I mean, it's a different type of enjoyment. I feel like we're just in the basement. Just be guessing the three of us when it's when it's a normal episode, which is fun. But like, I don't know if I'm ready to do paranormal investigations, but I'm definitely ready to interview anybody who has done them. Oh, I was hoping that you could hear how brave I was and I went and did it. And that way to help you do it. Because what was it? Episode two when John proposed the investigation and you and no, you shut that down so hard. And I was heartbroken. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, we've been talking about it. He might get me to go a few places. We'll see. We used to pretend to investigate in his house. What's that? We, uh, you used to pretend.

1:16:01He broke up there a bit, John. We used to pretend to investigate in his basement. Even though there was no haunted or anything in his house. And I still remember him walking down the stairs and the washer started draining into the basin. And he about flattened me to get up the stairs. Yeah. In his defense. In his defense. Yeah. Somehow, look, washers are aggressive for no reason. They don't need to sound like an entity climbing out of hell. They just don't, but they do. Yeah, John, it was in a grouse of washer. How dare you. But I think that just means that you got it. You got to do it even more. And besides, I'm going to tell you what I tell,

1:17:01I tell our kids because you are also a scout now, Evan. I'm not just a leader. You're also a leader and a scout is brave. Fair enough. John, you're going to use that. Well, little, uh, we'll see how that goes. You used to fail along. I just, uh, I just want to go investigate things that I can shoot if I need to. So, let's see if you kill Bigfoot. Don't tell me. Why? I mean, there's multiple. Because I'll probably. I know, but I'll still try. Don't do that to Bigfoot, man. No, no. How are we going to prove it exists and protect it if we don't kill it? Here's, here's an oddball topic to end out this investigation or this, uh, this interview. So, see, he's already, he's already subconsciously agreed to investigation.

1:18:03He's used the word. I know. So, consciously, that's a point and like he wants to do this. That is definitely what I heard. I'm leaning towards it, but I'd like to find out some ways to do that cleansing stuff like, maybe, maybe we'll talk to Levi about it because I'm sure he has something that he does to avoid stuff. Anywho. I guess what I would pose is my final question is, since how you don't want me to kill Bigfoot, how do you propose that I prove the existence of Bigfoot if I don't kill Bigfoot and bring the head in to the biologist who can classify it? I mean, you need a, I forget what the specific you need, you need like a model of the species in order to classify it as a species.

1:19:04Hollow type. That's what it is. A hollow type. Um, then I would, I would challenge you to work on your making friends ability and you're going to be a friend Bigfoot and you're going to get many photos. You are also going to collect a blood sample and a hair sample and you're going to ask if he's lost any baby teeth or if he could just like mine giving you a tooth or anything like that, take some nail clippings man. There are other ways to prove you don't have to have it dead for it to get classified. Because if you did, if you, if it had to absolutely be dead, then there are quite a few things on the planet that if it's, it's the last of it. Okay, but we've generalized itself by it's being the last of it, by it's being the last of it, while it's alive. So you could do the same thing with Bigfoot. You just need, you need to be friend Bigfoot or yet become his wife.

1:20:09That's a real beat movie reference cut. I don't know if you guys know that. How? I was saying, I didn't hear you in the henderson's. No, there's literally a movie Bigfoot kidnaps people to be his bride. Oh gosh. Is it, I'm going to have to, I'm assuming it's on to be. Everything is on to be related to big things. I have watched it. If you're a two year old or a YouTube thing, it's definitely a deep like, but I, I, I love stuff like that. Yeah, fans of those years, was that the, was that the one where the chicks brother gets out of jail and she goes to pick them up and they crash or something like that. And then Bigfoot is like killing people to get to her. You're maybe, um, you internet really hates you. I heard you, I heard crash. Yeah, no, it's, it's bad tonight.

1:21:18Yeah, that internet hates you, John, bro. Should I close out the show then, buddy? Yeah, I think so. Should I? Well, I'm going to do the John thing. It's never too late to go into the woods or into Bobby Mackeys and find yourself in the gates of hell. Have a good night, folks.