Cale Makar In & Hellebuyck Out | Morning Cuppa Hockey

0:00What's up everybody and welcome to another summer edition of Morning Cup of hockey. Morning Cup of hockey is a presentation of vet 365 download the app today and we are also presented by Perasso, the most complete choice for shaving and beard care made in Italy since 1948. Perasso has been a stable battalion culture and barbershops globally for four generations. So get 15% off at PerassoHalfanUSA.com with our promo code hockey 15 in all caps hockey 15. We've got a great show for you today. That's Colby Cohen. I'm Johnny Lazarus. We got John Michael Liles joining here in the next minute or so. Then we got Brian Bartlett who is Kale McCarr's agent after Kale just signed that big ticket 20.4 million dollars. The highest paid player in the history of the game. So we'll talk to him about that and just about

1:01all of his clients and how he got started in the business and what went into Kale signing this contract even though we all pretty much know it's hard to turn down 20.4 million dollars. So there's much that went into it. But Colby, I'll kick it over to you. If you want to say something, if you want to make fun of me, if you want to say I have an announcement, whatever you want to do before you bring John Michael Liles on and get the show started. No out of respect for whom I aim the greatest avalanche defense whenever I don't want to make him wait. But I do think now with Kale's new contract, it's time to pass the mantle. Like I don't think I think I don't think I can hang onto that one anymore. So let's bring them on. Johnny Liles, recurring guests of the show smile. The only thing I can do is shake my head at that comment. So for as long as you've known me, I've never wavered on that. You have he says it when you're not even here. I've never heard on that comment. Yeah, you haven't and I question your sanity, but I appreciate the support. And listen,

2:06it's it was it was a heck of a run. Kale McCarr is not only the greatest avalanche defenseman, but arguably in the top five defenseman in NHL history or will go down in the top five in NHL history. And every penny of that contract is deserved. I go back to, you know, I think with Ryan Whitney said, you know, every penny is deserved and probably still underpaid. I mean, when you look at when you look at what the best player in some of the other sports, and I know it's all relative based on revenues, but like it, it, it, it, it amazes me that there are still people out there that look at this contract and have negative thoughts about it. And, and I just for the life of me cannot understand like I saw that there was a no sticker shock. It was like, Oh, okay, I, I, that's it. Like that was, you know, honestly, the only thing to me,

3:08I feel like the sticker shock is almost coming from the escalation in salaries because of the salary cap going up and that escalation in the highest paid player salaries. But like you said, when you look at it relative to other sports, I mean, we're barely, barely in the conversation. When you look at what some of these other top sports and top players in these sports are getting paid. And I think just because we've gone up relatively quickly over the last few years, I feel like that's more of the sticker shock than actually a hockey player making $20 million. Right. I mean, guys were making $11 million, no escrow before 04, right? Like I came in there as Peter Forsberg was making $11 million, no escrow. I believe Joe Sackik was making 10. And Claire was up there at that time. Exactly. Keep the shock. All of those top players, but because of that 0405 lockout, all of a sudden, it was just, you know, you had the hard cap and you knew that it wasn't going up anytime soon. And so they kind of had to figure out a way to,

4:13you know, do to fit all these players in under the hard cap. You also had the rollback as well. I believe we rolled back 25% overnight. And so it just has taken forever for these salaries to seemingly catch up to the other sports. Do you think the position's going to keep mattering? I feel like over the years, too, it's for it's been like you can't pay a goalie as much as a center or a defenseman, even as much as a top center. Like now you have the defenseman as the highest paid guy. Do you think positions and how much, you know, a defenseman versus a center versus a, yeah, you know, number one, goalie, is that going to be more even level playing field, do you think, Johnny? You know, it doesn't show. I would say yes, positions matter. I mean, when you look at him, it David or, or a McKinnen, obviously Capriza, I've got paid as a winger, but I think positions do matter. But I also think part of it is timing. When you look at everybody wants to point it, okay, you've got heiskening, you've got, you know, point to whoever you want radish

5:14shit at nine five, all these guys, but I think timing matters as way as well. And I think kale hit it perfectly. And the other thing, he was willing to commit to eight years in Colorado. And I think that made a huge difference. That cost certainty for the abs. You heard Joe Sackick talk about it in the press conference that he and kale had on Monday. And just that cost certainty for eight years. kale wants to be in Colorado. He's played his entire career in Colorado. Colorado is committed to winning. They're committed to spending the money. And so why wouldn't you want to be a part of that if you're kale? Yeah, could he have gotten more if he took a three or four year deal, potentially, but at the same time, you've got eight years of cost certainty. So nine more years of kale, McCarrer, four of the abs and nine more years of Colorado for kale. I think I think it's a really, really good fit. And yeah, I'm interested to hear what what his agent has to say after me, because I know Joe really well. I've talked to Joe since the deal is signed. And you know, what I

6:16mean, listen, he knew that they were going to pay him, but there's 31 other teams that would have paid the exact same amount and the exact same number of years. Well, I guess not the exact same number of years because it's Colorado and he could stay. But they would have paid him that exact same amount over whatever term he wanted. I think for me too, that was the biggest thing I took away from the press conference and talking to some of my old teammates at UMass, like the guys who like no kale really well. I think that was the biggest thing too was that he really wanted to emphasize that he wanted to be an av for life. And I think with the way the summer has gone and the conversations we've seen around, you know, now Connor Hellobuck and quit all these different guys. And how refreshing it's been for players to take control of where they want to be. It's also just as refreshing. It's just as refreshing now though after those conversations to hear a guy who says, this is where I want to be. And I'm going to get paid the right amount. And I'm going to like almost do the organization a favor by taking the years because he didn't have to like you said Johnny, which is crazy.

7:16Which is crazy. Yeah. He's doing the organization a favor when they're you know, he did 163 million dollars, but yeah, he did. And in the end, listen, like I love what Joe Sackic said is listen, you get harder to go find and get super star, then do actually sign them and then build around them. Yeah, is that number like, is it going to be tough? Yes. He said, you know, the lekkan in contract is going to be a challenge. And that's a big one because he's been such a high level performer for the abs, especially in the playoffs. So that's going to be a challenge. Is there a way they can fit that in? He'd rather sign the macar, the McKinnon, the natious, and then build around those guys. So I just I loved what Joe said in that regard. But yeah, it's it is. It's kind of funny when you look at it. Like he did the organization a favor, you know, getting paid 163 million dollars, but being willing to commit for another eight years on top of this last year of his deal. So nine years of came a car like he wants to be an app for life. He's an unbelievable person.

8:18He's an unbelievable player. And like I said earlier, probably going to go down as top five top three defenseman in NHL history. If he continues on this trajectory, which I don't see, yeah, maybe one, two. I mean, and that's that's the crazy thing. And I'd say I'd say my two comments would just be, you know, if there's anybody that is qualified to decide who should be the highest paid player ever, it would be Joe Sackic. I mean, you're talking about a first ballot hall of fame player human being, a leader, a champion. If anybody knows what it looks like to have every quality that you want to make that Joe Sackic is that guy. And there's a few of them. And you look at that. And if you're a fan and you're concerned, you got to just take a deep breath and think, yeah, remember, Joe Sackic helped build a team to win a Stanley Cup. Joe Sackic has lifted

9:18a cup as a captain. He understands what it takes, what it means. And then the other comment that I'll make and I'll piggyback off something New York Marine said, look, the noise around expansion right now is so loud. And I know that these two billion dollar fees that these expansion teams are going to pay, the players don't get a share of that that I understand. But now we're going to potentially over the next couple of years, we're going to be adding two more teams that are going to be adding to the hockey related revenue ticket sales Jersey, you name it. And so TV rights, all that kind of stuff. So, you know, Kale McCarr's contract, let's say halfway through or less, I'd say in four years, like we are going to be in for another insane bump. Like we know it like three, four years of the cap looks like 5, 6, 7, 8, we might start getting to a place where the NHL salary cap is 185, 190, maybe 200 million dollars. I don't think we're far off from an NHL

10:26player making $30 million. Yeah. And so Nathan McKinnon got paid that's probably going to be him. Right. Well, and McKinnon got paid that contract a few years ago to use the highest paid player for whatever a month or two. But now he's making 12.6. It kind of looks like a bargain. You're feeling good about it. So are we sitting here in four years looking at Kale McCarr, 20.4 going, I mean, that's actually a pretty nice number. Yeah. I think that's what I've been arguing the most. Yeah. That like I said in four years, it's going to look great because people at the NHL everyone you talk to within the NHL says by 29 30, the cap should be at like 130, you know, which is another 25 million rate. So in four years, yeah. When Kale's 30, one 32 years old, yeah, that probably does look great. That's without its mansion team shot. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And again, the revenue that those teams are going to generate, that goes into that pool. So what look, nothing makes me happier than seeing a player who is deserved. Get a pay

11:34day like that. I was highly disappointed in Connor McDavid. He chose what he chose for a reason. That's all I get to have an opinion. Ultimately, my opinion means nothing because it's his life and it's his choice. But I love to see this because I think Kale McCarr not only does he take a deal, he paves the way to continue to push player salaries up after having years of a flat cap and the player is giving massive amounts of S grow back to the owners. Okay. Listen, fans, if you don't like this, write your owner and tell him to say we don't want to have a salary cap. And then you want to have anything to worry about. Just just it's like write your congressman. Let's not go down that road again. I think we're in a good spot in terms of your boss Johnny just bought another sport team. Oh, I know. Oh, the angels, right? I saw that angels. Yeah. $4 billion. Yeah. Just wait till they start getting rid of high paying salaries over there and with the angels because that'll

12:37be coming here soon. Oh, man, that's it's yeah, it'll be interesting to see what happens with Major League baseball. The one other thing I actually wanted to say too is let's not forget. Kale took less on his last deal. Like he could have asked for 11 12. He took 925 on that deal per year so that the abs could sign some guys. Landiscock doesn't get signed and the abs don't win that cup in 22 if Kale doesn't take 925. Yeah. So just, you know, looking back on that, like Kale did his part at the at the right time, but timing is everything. And he had the opportunity to get paid this and he took full advantage of it after taking a team for a friendly deal last contract. Yeah. One more thing about Kale, if I can't call me before we go into our next topic just because you know, Johnny year around him a lot, is there like a better representative for an organization than him? Like even listening to that press conference, like Kale said everything, like the perfect

13:37way, the exact way of fan wanting. He's that's what I'm saying. He's just the perfect representative. Guys, genuine. He's genuine. He really is. And yeah, like there isn't there isn't. I mean, the one, you know, maybe better representative of the avalanche or on par with Kale would be Joe Sack. Yeah, I was just going to say it's ahead of yeah, everything is or, you know, Gabe Landiscock, right? Yeah. And like, I mean, I honestly think Gabe Landiscock might be a friggin robot created in a lab, most good looking person ever. And he's genuine and like the way that he talked to you. Yeah, you're just like, exactly. Yeah, the sweet. Yeah, I know every time he talks to me, I'm like, oh my god, I feel like a, I feel like like less of a man, which is a crazy thought for you because I mean, nobody can put on a suit and wear it better. Oh my god. Every time he puts on a suit, they show him on the walk in. I'm like, God, I suck. God, just such a stud that man, the Swedes who do it right really do it. Yeah, there's no doubt about

14:44that. So there's another defenseman right now in the national hockey league that is, you know, garnering a lot of attention, a lot of headlines and that's Quinn Hughes. And you know, I got to tell you, I was like, and I'm still totally celebratory of what Bill Garen did. And I do it 10 times over again. And I will say, this is the first time I'm really concerned about this situation for him and thinking maybe he isn't going to side. Like I'm, I'm kind of in that spot right now. And the only reason is is those the brothers paled around and jacked from what I'm told is sort of the spiritual leader of the three of them, not Quinn. Like Jack is the one who's the party planner. And I take, you know, puts the itinerary together. So, you know, there's a lot of that pressure. I guess the hope would be that Quinn goes back to, or into Minnesota right now. He starts skating around Carillacaprize off and Matt Boldy and he starts to see and remember how good of an

15:48environment Minnesota has become. And then they can get a deal done. But what is your, and then, like I'll just make this comment too. If this goes the way that it could and he ends up having a trade Quinn and he gets, even a King's ransom back for Quinn. My concern is that GMs are going to shrivel up inside a little bit because it's a copycat league, right? And now you could make the argument that he took a swing and he got burned and you took a swing on Rantin in Carolina. And he didn't want to be that like, and now our other GMs going to be like, oh, I'm not going to do that. We're not going to, we're not going to try for that sort of thing. Yeah, listen, with the Quinn Hughes situation, I mean, I think we can all agree that it's a very tight-knit family. The brothers, the dad, the mom, like it's very tight-knit, everything you see. And that is, that is kind of the question is, does Quinn ultimately want to play with his brothers?

16:50And will that have an effect? I played for Brian Burke and Toronto. Those GMs, if there's a GM you want to play for, Billy Garen is absolutely that GM, right? I played with Billy G on the Olympic team and the World Cup. And this guy is one of a kind. He is one of the best people. He goes out of his way. I mean, listen, I was nobody over those years on those US teams, playing, you know, with Medanos and Kachucks. But like Billy G, like, be lines to me every time he sees me up in the press box. And like, we, you know, we just, you know, chat and it makes you feel like, man, like this guy is genuine, right? So if you want to play for any GM, Billy G is one of those guys. So I could see Quinn signing in Minnesota. But what does that look like? Does he go down the road that McCart didn't go down and take the two or three year deal because Minnesota is a desirable place to play. They got a heck of a team.

17:54Billy G is doing everything right there right now. But he also wants to play with his brothers and potentially hit that, that, that bigger home run in two or three years when the cap does go up. So I could easily see that happening. And like you said, get back to Minnesota skating with Capri's off. Matt Bouldy is so impressive to me as a player. Like I love watching this guy play. And the ads played him in the playoffs. And every time he had the puck on his stick, I'm like, ah, this is a little scary. And I just think that like he's one of those guys that you build around and Billy G is obviously doing that. But yeah, it is. It's, it's, I still think it's a question, Mark. Like the big thing is does Quinn want to play with his brothers at one point during his career? And what does that look like? Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it is a little. What's your concept? Like what's your, oh my god is I can easily see him taking like a two-year deal, a two-year extension in Minnesota and seeing what they can get out of that group. And then

18:57reassessing once the cap goes up and potentially trying to go unrestricted and play with his brothers, I can easily see that happening because I don't think once again, I go back to the Billy G and like, like if you want to play for one GM or, or you know, there's a couple GMs that like you know you want to play for Billy G is one of those guys. And I think in Minnesota, they've got some really, really good pieces. And the atmosphere is amazing. Like I was there in the playoffs, that second round. And like, I mean, that building is electric once again. It like, it was always hard to play in, but it's, it's back to where it was. So I could easily see Quinn taking like a, you know, two-year extension kind of trying to look to maybe hit that, that home run again and play with his brothers maybe in three years. So just, just to throw this out there before you jump in here, Johnny, Quinn has earned 40 million dollars in his career, career earnings, 40.5 million dollars. And he is 26 years old, right? So

20:04I just wonder at this point, you're looking at what Kale did and you're going, that gets me to 200 million. I could, because I got to think, if he, if he walked into Billy's office and said, hey, I would like that contract, I would think they're giving it to him. Yeah, but he's not asking for eight years. There's no way. I don't think he's asking. I think, I think, I think it's a two-year deal. He's 29 UFA and then he, and then he signs a, the, you know, call it, let's say he signs two years at 20.5 extensions. So he becomes the highest paid player, right? Because I, I mean, listen, we all know that that's, you know, it's, it's that little kind of feather in the cap. Highest paid player in the league. He should be, he should be 100,000 under Kale. But he's not going to say that he should be 100,000. I know, right? So I'm saying, you know, like, I could see a 20.5 two-year extension. He's 29 UFA after three years of, you know, this playing out the remainder of this contract in another two years.

21:06I could easily see that happening. And then he hits a big ticket where maybe he's 25 million a year. I also think when, just from knowing him a little bit, like, I haven't talked to him about this. And I would never even ask him what he's thinking. But like, he cares so much about the hockey. Like I think this year, he'll be as patient as he can. And I think wait as long as he can to sign something. Because maybe he wants to see what Sonny Mata is doing in New Jersey. If Sheldon Keith is even the head coach after the first quarter of the season, you know, what Minnesota looks like through their first 25 games. Like, I think he should be patient. This is the time for him to be patient before he commits to doing something. Although I do agree with what Johnny's saying, two years makes the most sense that makes everybody happy. You give Billy the reward for going out and getting you. You give Billy a full season, another playoff run. And then you can kind of reassess. Look at what the other teams are looking like around the league and decide from there. But I do you guys think do you guys think Luke Hughes wants to sign up to never play the power play for the rest of his

22:06career? Like I keep saying that. It's like he will never play the power play for the next eight years. If these guys end up on long deals together. Yeah, but he's playing with them. I don't think he cares. Yeah, he doesn't care. If Gwen's coming in, he knows. Like he's watched when his entire life. I know. It's a moment. You live for the power play. Yeah, you're that type of guy. Yeah, but in the family hockey games growing up, it was automatically give the puck to Quinter, Jack. Luke, can we talk about this comment in the chat though? Play Golly because he was the youngest brother. They probably threw Luke and goal when they were kids. Go ahead, Johnny. Sorry. I want to read this comment from Paul Pasantino and ask Johnny about just as quote, like Billy G saying in quotes, Quinn wants different things. What can the different? What can the different thing be? It's obvious to former NHL exec already said he wants to play with his brothers. Like what are those other factors? Well, listen, I mean, I think that that's one is he wants to play with his brothers.

23:09I don't think that's a secret, right? Now is not now. Is it right now or is it in three years? That's I think the question is is, you know, he wants to play with his brothers, but I mean, you said it like you reward. Do you reward Billy G for going out and getting you and those playoff runs and what you have in Minnesota or is it? No, I want to be in New Jersey with my brothers right now. By the way, Johnny, Paul Pasantino that you just pulled from the chat, I grew up playing hockey with him and his older brother, his older brother is my and I want to play this brother too. They're that island, Johnny. They're Staten Island guys. I don't know why. Yeah, we played hockey together, grown up. I'm looking at the name and I'm like, yeah, that's awesome. What are the odds of that, right? Great family too. Oh my god, we had a lot of fun growing up playing hockey together, but I just I just wonder, you know, how long can you

24:10let this go on? Johnny Loss, like because to me, I don't think you can let this get near the deadline because if you let this get near the deadline, I think teams are going to sit there and they're going to be like, we're not going to give you full value. Like if you know he's not resigning with you, yeah, I think you're you're doing this in the next month, basically, if you know, because you're you're going to get more, you're going to actually, I think, imagine if you could do a sign-in trade, you might get more than you gave up for him at that point. In my trade, would be the play. Yeah, I still think, yeah, I still think the question mark is is like, because once again, if you're if he's not resigning in Minnesota, then New Jersey is really the only place he's going. Is it like am I not not that's what it seems like? Yeah, right? Like I don't know that he like, like you're you're getting something, but I don't know like because New Jersey is seems to be the only place that he's going because of the brother situation. Like then all of a sudden,

25:13you're going, okay, well, what are you actually getting for him? Yeah, I do before we bring on Brian Barlett here, Johnny, I do want to ask you about hell, but quick. And I want to just to yeah, to kind of steer around this. We're not gonna have the real housewives drama with a van McCain and Curtis Gabriel. We can get into that later. I'm not even like really dialed on that. I'm like, I'm like, yeah, I'm uncomfortable even thinking about it. Um, we could talk about that later if you want, but that's my special team making people uncomfortable. All right. With with this though, Johnny, like everyone's talking, I think everyone's comparing Varkin and Hellabuck just because of the length of their deals, but I think Winnipeg's in a much different position just because Winnipeg right now has someone who can play the position aside from Hellabuck. Like they signed Stuart Skinner, granted like Skinner's maybe not as good as Hellabuck, but if their patient enough and give it one more year, his no move clause turns into a 10 team no trade, which obviously helps them get a better return. And they don't need to treat him like a

26:14starter this year if they don't want to because it's already as if they don't have them on their team. And with Larkin, it's a bit different because that's a position you need for 84 games. And he has two more years, I think, until his full no move turns into a no trade. It does feel like two completely different situations, even though it is kind of the same thing. Yeah. Well, and what I would say is yes, I agree with you. It does feel like two completely different situations now. I said this to somebody the other day, like I could see Detroit just flat out playing hardball and just saying, hey, show up to camp, right? Like you gave us your six teams that you would get traded to so far. We don't have what we need. So show up to camp or don't. And I could absolutely see Detroit doing that. You know, the hellabuck situations, I think a little more unique because I do think that there are teams that will go out of their way to try and get him. And I don't know that that's necessarily the case with Larkin. I think Larkin's an unbelievable player, but I think

27:16on a really good team, I think Dylan Larkin's a number two center. And so I just think Conor Hellabuck, I think there's teams that that that are probably going to push the envelope and really try and and make some call it room to get him in there. Whereas, you know, I just I watching what's unfolding in Detroit, I just wonder if maybe there's some hardball to be played. And the eyes of the situation and how how that has played out was really interesting to me as well. Just because it did feels like that though the the the eyes of the situation was a bit of a ramification of what was going on with Larkin. So I don't know. I'm interested to see how everything plays out because now it's not now that like nothing's a secret anymore. Yeah. Right. Like everything is just like, I mean, for lack of a better word, it's like everything's just barfed right out in front of everybody. And it's like, hey, here's what's happening.

28:20This is what's happening behind closed doors. Everybody can make their own assumptions, can make their own judgments. And it's really there's not much that is that feels kind of kept, you know, under the vest anymore. Well, the Hellabuck situation, he felt like he needed to do that obviously to try to make it to me. Obviously him and his representation decided that that was the best play because they just maybe they felt like Winnipeg wasn't taking them seriously. Let me just ask. I think it's because of his no move though. I think that's why you guys are you, Johnny Lyle's like, you bring Dylan Larkin back. He can't be the captain anymore, right? And so or maybe he can like, I know I saw that thing on on on social media, but that was like a fake account. That wasn't like they said like they need him give it whatever. If you're in that locker room, and I know like players are yeah, they're pros like you want your guy there, no matter what, but like because the these are two marquee players, these are stars, these are gold medalists,

29:25there's all this sort of noise around these guys that is more like extra. Can you have these guys in your locker room like, do is that not because every other player is going to be answering questions about it every day and and Detroit, especially like you've got McClellan in there. He's not there to rebuild. He's there to win. There's pressure in Detroit. Like, can you let this thing go? I would just think the longer this goes, the worse it is for everybody. Like there's no winner. The longer it goes. Yeah, I yeah, I the longer it goes for sure, the worse is for everybody. Let's not let's not you know, like let's not kid ourselves. Like every guy in that room knows why Dylan Larkin asked for a trade, right? Like like every guy in that room knows like whether and I'm not saying it's one thing or another, but if it's because him and Stevie Y had a bad relationship, he has definitely talked about it to guys in that room and every guy in that room

30:25knows it. So I don't think like in the end, I still think he could be the captain because he has a specific reason. I'm sure there's justification for why he asked for a trade. And so it's not like guys in that room are necessarily going to turn on him unless the reason is I just don't want to play with you guys. He's also not a man. And he's not a man. No, he's going to work. No, he's yeah, absolutely. Like he plays injured. You know, like he like I mean, he was limping around for you know, half the season and I don't know if it was this past year or the year before, where like he was playing through injury, right? Like there's a reason why he's the captain. He's not a male in guy. And in the end, like it's not because he doesn't want to play with the guys in that room. There's something else there and everybody in that room knows what it is. It's not a secret, right? Everybody talks. And he's tight with guys in that room. So in the end, I still think he can be captain. But yes, the longer it goes on and there's not a solution. And whether that solution

31:26is, hey, we have a new GM that is on Dylan Larkin, you know, but you know, he's on the the, you know, the Dylan Larkin fan club and we're going to rebuild this relationship or they end up moving him. But the longer it goes, yes, the worse it gets. Yeah. All right. Should we ask about the event or can Curtis Gabriel think quick? Wait, I've only seen a little bit. I just saw the spring. Jordan Schmaltz's tweet just came up on my timeline and it's pretty funny. I'll read it out. That guy's an absolute friggin. He's a riot. He's so fun. Good morning folks. What did I miss? Who is currently winning the Evander Cain versus Kitas Gerberate? Kate Kurt Gabriel's cyber war. Sounds like Kurt dropped two nougues on Evander Cain's chin. And Cain came back last night with airstrike of receipts. The type of receipts you submit to your corporate company 22 months late, trying to expense a theater for 128 bucks at Cooper's Hawk and Troy Missha. Yeah. Wow. I mean,

32:29look, I think that my personal opinion here is you don't need to go public to settle these types of things. I don't it's entertaining. I'm not going to lie. I'm entertained by all of it. But I wouldn't like there are plenty of guys who didn't like me and there are plenty of guys I didn't like, right? And I just don't think I'm going to go and drag it all out over social media ever like a personal beef like that. I just don't think I would ever take that route, even though I don't mind being controversial. So it is entertaining, but it's also pretty cringey if you ask me. I think it's really cringey. It's very yeah. Yeah. That's that's a good word for it. I was going to say like I'm I wasn't even in that room and I'm uncomfortable talking about it of how many well, like how many rooms you're in over your career, right? So all of a sudden, if something gets brought up and you were in that room or it's brought up directly, you know,

33:30about you, it's it's uncomfortable, right? Because in the end, like you're all you're all going out and you're going to war each and every night and you think that every guy has your back. But yeah, in the end, not everybody likes everybody and there's definitely, you know, like there's definitely guys that that maybe aren't best friends with everybody in the room. And I'm not a huge fan of airing things publicly. And yeah, it is. It's a bit cringey. I I'm uncomfortable even like talking about it and reading. Well, then you're bringing Patty Martin and their screening shot. Yeah. I am not a fan. When you're having a personal text conversation with someone, I just think that if you're going to screenshot and go public, to me, you've already lost. Like I am so against that type of behavior. And like listen, the best part of hockey is you can just drop your gloves usually in fight and then like you move on and guys do that. I mean, Willie,

34:34shit, Willie and I dropped the gloves like five times in college when we were in practice. And then we go to the dining hall after like and we were roommates. Like it's just that's the best part of hockey. You just like fight it out and you move on. So yeah, not used to this though. This seems like more NBA drama than than than any gel drama. Well, and I don't think it's going to slow down anytime soon. Is what I like because neither what neither of these guys is going to back down. No, they're just going to look for more ammunition, more ammunition and I mean, God, who knows what's in the camera rolls? It's he signed anywhere. I don't think so. Yeah, which just this certainly doesn't help that for him. No, no, you're already concerned if you're signing him and like, look, but I do, you know, again, I don't know the guy personally. His online persona has never been my favorite, you know, with some of the pictures and things. But when he plays the game, he's a freaking good player. I mean, he is a good player. I mean, he's not a guy you want you

35:37want for checking. Yeah, he's not afraid to make like, you know, if he's on, if he's in, if he's all in, he makes you better. Like he might be something or other off the ice, but, you know, it's certainly something to consider. Yeah. And like if you're unsigned right now, like, and you're getting into this, I like, should you be playing? Well, I don't feel like that. Hey, chill. Nobody's to well, yeah, nobody's super eager to bring that into the room. If you're in like a Twitter war right now about whatever in years past, I just, I mean, like, I don't know, that's, man, that whole thing. I just sit there and I'm like, yep, glad I'm just on the outside looking in. I'm just a TV guy who played a lot of games. Exactly. Can I start one with Riemer? Colby, since he's not signed yet. No, he already doesn't like you. You don't want to make that worse. That's the whole point. Is that the point? Johnny Lyle, you're the best man. We appreciate you getting up early with us. You probably couldn't do school drop off this morning. So we,

36:40we, well, I'm in a hustle. I'm in a hustle and do school drop off. And we actually have Devon Taves on our podcast this morning. So I'm going to hustle. Do, do, do pod drop off and, uh, and, and grill Taser about, uh, Kale's contract and why he made Kale who he is. Yeah. Exactly. That's all right. All right. Well, listen, thanks, Johnny. That's a great show, too. You guys, like everything you guys do, you guys have, I say it all the time. You guys have more fun than anyone. You're crew. Nobody has more fun. Agreed. That's full stop. All right, Johnny. Appreciate you. All right. See you guys. Thanks. Alrighty. Um, great stuff with Johnny Michael Liles. Colorado is going to be the theme of today's show. We do have Brian Bartlett from Bartlett Hockey getting ready to join. He is Kale McCarty's agent. We could talk about honestly how their relationship first started. Um, I wonder how long he's been with Kale. Um, sure it goes back to the UMass days, probably even earlier to Kale's age, age, hell days. But, um, we're like excited to talk. We don't really have a lot of agents on Kobe. Um, you know, maybe one of the areas we

37:41could do a better job. A lot of them don't want a lot of them don't like a lot of the agents like to kind of hang in the background and stuff like that. But, um, they're also not as all well spoken as Brian is, right? So you gotta find the ones that that are that are well spoken guys. I'm actually going to start with like a bizarre thing I saw on Twitter that is nothing to do with hockey, but I, I think he'll probably get a kick out of it. So why don't you bring him in? Yeah. Well, let's let's bring him Brian Bartlett and Kobe. Uh, well, first of all, I want to say congratulations, um, on the contract. Awesome. Incredible. Well done. Give you a clap there. Thanks. Thanks. Easy, easy one when you got a player and person is good as Kale. So, um, we will take a little credit, but was very small part. Uh, so appreciate that. I'm just now nervous about, uh, Kobe, the setup of what I'm walking into. Oh, you're gonna walk. I can't just think about the contract now. We're about this trap. I'm putting your feet to the fire and I'm gonna tell you why. I read on Twitter this morning, the Detroit Tigers have reached a pre-agreement with a 12-year-old

38:45named Kevin Sosa with a $4 million signing bonus, okay? So I got to ask you, Peewee Quebec this year, we handed out $4 million and $5 million signing bonuses at the Peewee Quebec tournament. How crazy for you is it to hear or see something like that in another sport? I know that I mean, it's a good tie and even to Kale's like I saw that like, oh, yeah, McCarrz, whatever 20.4, great. Then he'd be the 90 second highest paid NBA player. So it's like the same thing like the wrong sport. We got 10-year-old baseball players making $4 million. We got Kale, one of the best players in the world would be whatever a third lighter of the NBA like, what is happening here? But I mean, there's a reason that we all like hockey and like hockey players and are really lucky to be to be in this game. So I wouldn't trade it for the world. But yeah, there's certainly more money than we've made in other sports, but not as good of a sport. You have to watch baseball all the time. I mean, I'll give you a year to pay me to do that. He doesn't

39:48be here in the field, but I'm watching 166 games here. That's for sure. Brian, I do want to just rewind a little bit. I was talking to my good buddy, Mitch Chafee, who is one of your clients. And he told me to ask you just about like the origin story. You, your brother, I think your dad is the one who started the company when he was in Rochester doing taxes. He's a lunch in your dad. Yeah, so I was told to ask about the origin just about, you know, how this family, that was doing taxes in Rochester created a, you know, big powerhouse hockey media company. Or hockey, I'm sorry, hockey agency, excuse me. Yeah, thanks. Thanks for asking that. It's something that we're really proud of and really lucky to work with. My father, Steve, and my brother Scott does, you know, a huge driver for our business. But the origin story was crazy. So my father, Steve grew up in Rochester, New York, played hockey, went and played at University of Vermont. And then after school had kind of two loves. He loved motorcycles and he loved hockey.

40:48He got kind of the hockey at shout. And back in those days was, you know, I think there's maybe three Americans in the NHL total. So it was pretty clear that he wasn't going to be playing in the NHL. So it's like, all right, how do I kind of follow another passion? And that was motorcycle. So we opened up a motorcycle shop in Rochester, New York. But he actually taken a step back before we went to Vermont. He was the stickboy for the Rochester Americans, the American league team, want to call the cup with that. He's got the ring, all that stuff. So like he was around hockey, new hockey guys. And then when he started selling bikes, our watches are started selling them to some of the kind of old time legend guys are like the Randy Cunny worse, the Nolan's guys like that Jim Weemer, like this whole crew of guys like we grew up with. So he just sold bikes to them. They'd go on trips and they'd go up like in the Adirondacks or go wherever. And they were kind of talking over and over like, Hey, my agent doesn't really know what it's doing or some guys at that stage didn't even have agents, right? Like they weren't making that much money in the American league. This is mid 80s. And my dad was their age running a business, figuring out how to do sales tax,

41:55all this sort of stuff. So they just kind of kept asking for advice a little bit more. And the first ones were doing income tax. Like, Hey, I don't know how to file taxes here. I'm a Canadian guy. No idea how to do this. My dad helped with that. And then one guy Randy Cunny, that worth finally is like, Hey, like you did a good job with my taxes. Can you try to do my contract? My dad like, I sold you a motor's like, I'm gonna try. I guess I don't get hurt. So sold them went in there. The GM at that time was with Scottie Bollman, legendary. Oh wow. He went, got him like whatever, probably a thousand dollars more than what he expected. And they're like, Hell yeah, that's great. You're my agent. He's like, okay, so did that. Randy ended up getting traded because his phone was like, Hey, he's never going to be an NHL guy. Did you find a trade form? Find a trade form? I'm traded to Pittsburgh. He started out right away. First day training camp with Mario Lemieux. I think he scored 39, 42 goals. Something that first year for a guy that supposedly couldn't play.

42:57And then everybody in that locker room was like, Oh, they're smokes. Like, this is all right. He just done anything. They got this random guy here and got him on the wing with Mario, got in there. And then I think by Christmas of that year, my dad represented like 15 of the penguins guys. And those are the guys that won the cup in the early 90s there, right? Old Samuelsons and a lot of those guys moved on to be coaches of TIPPET and in all these different guys, kind of their tentacles spread. And then my brother and I just kind of nepal babies try to ride this thing out for a little bit. But yeah, really, a very childhood in around hockey games and they had 30, 40 acres behind the motorcycle shops who'd go ride their bikes and then jump in a car to go watch a Hartford Whalers game or something, get back at three in the morning, go to school. We had a really, really lucky childhood. And really, my dad's still works harder than both of us every day. It's crazy. The first time I ever heard your guys name, I was playing on the under 17 team. I don't remember,

43:57it was one of the Pittsburgh guys or Ohio guys, might have been CJ Severin, it might have been Johnny. One of those guys worked with you guys. So like, that was like the first. Yeah, Johnny Albert. Yeah, you had all those Pittsburgh and Ohio guys and like, you're clientless now Clayton Keller, Justin Falk, Paul Mary Green. What I mean, cool, Jay-T Miller, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's a pretty expansive list. Cole, Isermin, you and I have linked up on stuff there. So it's really cool to see how the agency has grown and how you guys have taken it to the next level. Obviously, I said your dad's a legend. He has been around like everybody heard, you know, like he did an unbelievable job at sort of paving the way. But then you guys have kind of gone to the next level. And where do you think, you know, this is going, right? Because I feel like as agents, you guys, like, I'm still super close, you know, you and I keep in touch. We talk a lot like, you know,

44:57I still talk to Jordan Newman and George Bezos. Those were my guys like, still all the time, even more now with my new job. But still we stayed close and like, I'm wondering where agency and relationships is like evolving to because it just feels like you guys have like, you're just doing so much more, I guess I would say, when it comes to this new age of player and social media and marketing and and NIL and like what what do you see this sort of going to and how this is going to evolve here into the future, this player agent relationship. Yeah, there's been a lot of new elements to this, right? With with the NIL stuff with the CHL opening to the NCAA, with the transfer portal and all these kind of happening at the same time, much less all kind of the normal NHL stuff that we're doing that for the guys younger, they're basically unrestricted for agents every year, right? So you do it with junior teams.

45:59You can switch colleges and not only can you switch colleges, it's going to be how much am I getting paid here on a NIL standpoint or revenue share standpoint. So free agency starts when you're 17, 16, 15, who knows? So it kind of doubles up on that. But the good news is by the time the players get to the NHL decisions or their KL trying to decide, do I want to do eight years, do I want to do whatever? If it's Mitch Schaeff, you're trying to decide, do I want to go into a situation where it might be a little bit more difficult being called up, sent down, where do we do this? You've been through this process with the players a number of times already that it builds up kind of that muscle memory, sorry, and builds up the relationship that we can go through and work things out really smoothly. So that part's the positive. I think on the flip side, I can't speak for other agencies. I think for us, what our strategy has been is just continue to stay small, to not take on more players and you can really do a good job for knowing that there's going to be

47:00a little bit extra work along the way, which is fine. But if you get the right guys, the right families, the right people that kind of have the mentality of wanting to love the process, then hopefully that ends up going. But there's been a lot of change in the agent world. Jordan and George, those guys were kind of like us and sticking that one where it was back to my dad's days of, again, just kind of being a sole proprietor in that. It's getting more corporate, it's getting a little more comfortable. Which, you know, that's right for some people. It hasn't been right for us. So I think everybody's going to continue to figure out what works best for them as a landscape changes. But we're really happy with how we're doing it and going to try to keep plug in and we're evolving quietly behind the scenes a little bit in the services that we offer. You know, Skydy, my brother does a great job with kind of a player development side of it, which is more important now a video and an ice and all that. So there's a lot that goes into it,

48:05but the really positive side of that is we are so much more connected to our players than it was, 10, 15 years ago, where we just kind of pop in, do a contract, do an endorsement here or there, and disappear. It's really satisfying for us. We feel like we're part of the team all the way through, as opposed to, you know, kind of a stereotypical view of an agent where he just kind of leeching in, taking a percentage, we feel like we're able now to help along the journey and just taking a chunk, you know. Johnny, before you ask your next question, I'll just say this. Like, I know I do see a lot of parallels to you guys and like, you know, these sort of, I don't want to say smaller agencies because you might be small as a staff, but your dollars on contract are anything but small. So I think small agency is the wrong term. I just think there's more of a personal touch that you give. I mean, look, you're in the rank every weekend. I've seen you, we run into it like you are always there supporting your guys. They're always and Jordan

49:08was like that and George was like that. Those guys to me are more like family. Yeah, we still do some business together, but I consider Jordan to be family at this point. I mean, I've known him longer than than I haven't in my like I've known him more years in my life than I didn't know him. And whether it's personal or business, we've we've been at this for so long and I think your group, their group, other groups like that are important because I see these these guys are all kind of getting gobbled up into these big, you know, agencies that have tons and tons and tons of resources. But I just wonder if you're not the best guy. What's the personal touch that you're getting? Right? Like what kind of love and support? Because a lot of times sometimes you just need a hug. Sometimes you just need someone to show up at an American Lee game on a Sunday at four o'clock in who knows where and just like have that familiar face and and have the ability to like have your support staff there and and someone you know is in your corner. So I hope that doesn't change. I

50:13know it won't with you guys. I know it won't with them. But I I hope there's more of that for players because I do think, you know, certain guys don't realize what you will miss later on having those people and having those relationships. They're they're special. They're important. I think so at least. Yeah, we see it the same way. Appreciate you recognize that. And I mean, it's it's crazy now right because you can go into chat Gbt or claw or whatever. And you could type in there like what should X player make on his next contract? Like I heard you guys talking about it with, you know, when you use or KL or what should whatever evangelist has got traded what should his extension be? You could put that into clawed and you know that's one piece of what we do, right? But but how are the conversations behind that? How are the conversations with KL and his family and in doing that of what's a priority to you? And and that's where we feel like like the relationship is important to be able to understand the person individually, not just the numbers. And and that I think is really where

51:14the value of having and it's not just us. There's a lot of really good people to do this. A trusted advisor agent really fits in. And and hope that it'll continue to be yeah value for the players to well, I would love to kind of dive into that specifically like you did have a big summer with two completely different situations. Alex took being another one of your clients who you know does the sign and trade with Washington. He was set to be the biggest you know unrestricted free agent on the market this year and didn't get to free agency like all players talk about is you know I want to just focus on hockey and the contract will deal with itself later like as their agent when do you begin those conversations? Are you kind of talking them throughout the playoffs? You leaving them alone, you know, are you concerned about the contract? Like that's you know your number one priority is making sure they're signed. They're getting paid what they deserve. So how do those conversations work between player and agent when all fans are concerned about oh my god when this guy going to sign his deal? Yeah, the most common is that you kind of you know we'll have these conversations really in depth with the players during the off season. So for Alex it was a year ago.

52:19Once kind of he was first able to the eligible to sign the extension last July first we got into it both with him you know he was an interesting one two where Alex was coming off a long-term deal that he signed in Vegas at you know a very team friendly number but he was coming off I think 70 career games when he signed a $30 million contract which is life changing money that makes it where in case something goes wrong you never have to work again. So that was a real decision that we made but then he had a lot of time to think about what do I want my next steps to look at because he was on a seven-year deal. So we've had those conversations over the years over you know countless dinners after games summers you know every time that I'm in Buffalo we're getting together with him many times that he was in Boston or Chicago or wherever you know so we saw him a time and have these conversations about kind of what the priorities are the same was with kale or any of our other clients. We start figuring out kind of what the baseline is and there's a whole range of priorities that the different players want. It's I want to be you know when a

53:21particular team or a particular city I want to make it where my kids don't have to move schools. I want to make it where I maximize the dollars that I get I want to maximize my ability to win championships. So there's all these different ones and it's kind of how those priorities sort out. So that's an ongoing conversation that we're having three years with our guys and then it's try to how to execute what they want best. And yeah two different situations but I think two good results that kind of hit on the priorities for for talk. Hit on the priorities for kale and and our other guys the summer. We think we we think we did a good job with those in the play got what they wanted but it's totally different for for everybody. There's some guys. Jane Schwartz is a great example right of a guy who signed with Colorado. His priority number one was try to win some championship. He could have made twice as much money I would guess going somewhere else but that wasn't his priority. He wanted to go. He wanted a few years wanted to be in a place where he thought he had a great sense to win. And chose Colorado which was the you know probably the

54:26opposite of what some other guys would have done. So it's getting to know the players in what their priorities are and then how to how to push that through and those aren't good conversations. Those are over the course of years. Can I just ask you I think people that are listening would love to know like what it was like for you to let kale know that he was being offered 20.4 million dollars a year for the next eight years. Like what was that like how gated were you to tell him that news? Look at the smile honestly. Yeah. It's don't be humble. I'm smiling because you know I think I think the people in Johnny you know him like for kale. It's particularly and I think most of our clients like the ones that feel comfortable with us like it was a great kind of time to tell him but it also wasn't like I don't think he was there like flipping his mattress over super excited either. It was like you know the conversation was hey you know we're doing eight years right like this is going to do. Let's talk about how this is going to affect the team. How is this going to

55:28impact what they're going to do? Are they still going to be able to sign the guys that we need to do? So it's it's talking a lot more about that. So I mean it was exciting for us just I think partially because it pushes the envelope forward for hockey. We talk about the baseball guys and the basketball guys and football and that like hockey is an interesting world I think where the reason that we all are hockey guys and love hockey guys is there's this team first mentality and you don't want to go too far ahead of the pack or you don't want to push it or you don't want to make it uncomfortable for your teammates. So we've lived in this flat cap system for so long because of COVID that there was you know hey you take your 1% increase 2% increase 2% increase 5% increase I'll take 50,000 more than this next guy and feel good about it that I think that that is we're all kind of getting out of that push now where the caps rising and we saw it with with some of these RFA is getting off or sheeted or the threat of it pushing forward like it's some point there's so much more money in the system that it has to go someplace like there's a floor and there's a ceiling

56:30like the money has to go someplace and and that's why I think for the guys like KL2 do it the right way that worked through it that took a contract that ended up being team friendly that didn't jump right in like these are the guys that deserve because they're good people good players good leaders have that track record like I think that's why we all felt comfortable about it and why we were excited to kind of help Kale through this journey because he's trusted us for as you said all the back to the Brooks days getting through here so it's nice to have that push but I think you know for him it was more satisfying saying hey like now I don't need to think about this anymore I don't need to worry about this anymore I know where I'm going to be for the next nine years and I have generational sort of wealth that you know oh yeah I think but also like this contract the guy he's talked about before I was listening before I logged in like there's a very real chance that he gets passed in the next six months for high school yeah totally yeah and we're all fine with that and I think that was more of the conversation we had like how do you feel about that like how would

57:34you feel if X player Y player he doesn't seem like the kind of guy he doesn't care that cares about that kind of thing like I don't know if if anything he seems like the kind of guy that's going to be happy for guys passing him because my opinion again like and I said this to Johnny Liles but I was critical when McDavid took such a under market deal because I think these guys that are that are the freaks of nature like kale and like Connor McDavid these guys that defy the logic of being good at something I love when they push the envelope way up because you're going to actually help everyone by doing that you're going to make you're you're gonna start giving more control to the players you're gonna push salaries up for other players like I was so happy that kale didn't take a team friendly like we're gonna just give you a break and I'm gonna sign some crazy under I was so happy that he didn't and if he did that would have been his choice like that's your personal choice

58:37I would have been critical and and my opinion means nothing to these guys which I get but like I was so happy that he took the deal that he did because it signifies exactly what it says you are the best player on any given night in the entire world at this so you should be compensated as such and like players are saying that too I think players are happy he did yeah this has been you know we always like we try to stay off a Instagram and X and all those after contracts but there's like a little bit of that you always get the curiosity to look in the comments quick and this one you know I think across the board has been one of the most well received contracts that we've done of everybody's like yeah yeah he deserves it yeah and I think that's because a lot of people like know who kale is as a person and in his family and in that so it's like yeah he deserved it here and it which is good to push forward and I think you know we're in a great situation with Colorado and that they have Nate signed for a bunch more years right they have Nate just done they don't have

59:41this the crunch which is I think different than you know in defensive counterweight David does not be defending is like they were in a different situation they had more spots they needed to fill they had more holes they needed to fill Colorado's got room and they're okay and a year from now two years from now they'll have cap space to fill in the spots that they need so I think that's why why everybody feels so good about this like they got a nice long window here. Bartz I appreciate it I appreciate everything you do for this game thanks for coming on with us today yeah congrats again to me and congratulations to you all like so well deserved by everybody and thanks for being reasonable you know you and I have done some stuff together you're always a reasonable guy you're always fair and easy to deal with when it's reasonable so I I appreciate that and we're rooting for coliserm in this year let's see 20 goals on the island for our boy colisermen let's go right so yeah he's at a monster he's at a monster summer so great great

1:00:43before to send him get his first full training camp in and go and so yeah all right man well talk to yeah will you be at the fall classic in Chicago will you be out there oh yeah we'll be kicking our let's get dinner yeah I'll see you in Chicago Johnny's buying all right I'll ask Kale to vent for me yeah exactly all right Bartz we'll see you man all right thanks guys thanks right yeah appreciate it all right Johnny what do we got for bed 365 I mean that was a great conversation I did yeah it just confirms we should bring we should find the right agents and have more of a presence from agents on this show finally people that actually agree with my player first take get your money mentality so I love it but why don't you give us our bed 365 and then we'll we'll call it I agree always great here on the inside I love the stuff that Alex took to but our bed 365 better the day the worst thing about hockey season is that at some point every year it ends there's a lot of time between now and the first puck drop of next season

1:01:46which feels like an eternity for those of us use the nightly games the good news is that bed 365 still has plenty of games just none that require leasing up your skates at bed 365 because you know you can choose between hundreds of slots live tables on your favorite games well maybe your second favorite game but you must be 19 or older please play responsibly and we're sticking with the theme we're looking at kale macars odds right now to win the Norris this season and it's at plus 275 which is actually pretty good value for the best defenseman in the world so that's going to be our bed of the day that's going to wrap up today's show we will be back next week we're about two weeks away from training camp starting from season September 21st we're back live four days a week yes yes so a couple more weeks to go here and yeah hope everyone has a great week we'll talk to you next week