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Free school meals should be available in all second level schools, but more work is needed
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on issues like portion size and the elimination of highly processed foods. Those are among the
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recommendations from the Eroctor's Education Committee, which has been looking at the provision
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of school meals. The scheme has become a contentious one because of complaints by some parents
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that their children won't eat the food provided. Others argue that it's the best way to ensure
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that children from the most disadvantaged backgrounds get a good meal. Vienna Falls
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called Crow, chairs the committee on education and youth, and he joins us now. Good afternoon.
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Good afternoon Rachel. What's the main problem you have identified with the scheme as it works
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or doesn't work at the moment? Well firstly, we've been doing a body of work in our
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committee for many months. We've had witnesses, we've had students, we've had teaching unions,
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parents, nutritionists, dietitians. We also went to Finland, a small group of the cross-party
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bases went to Finland to see how their system operational since the 1940s works. Generally,
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it's seen that the school meals program is a positive thing. Needs refinement and all things should,
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you know, nothing should stay a static in public policy and we're recommending a number of changes.
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We see good practice and we see it as an equalizer in terms of young people growing up that they
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have a good, nutritious meal in the middle of the day. But we're recommending things here like,
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firstly, one of the big changes, we feel it should move perhaps from the department of social
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protection over to the department of education. Just from a simplistic point of view, we think it's,
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it doesn't need to be straddling two departments. We feel that we should simplify procurement.
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And then from a delivery point of view, we feel that going forward, new school designs,
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not existing once you catch a shoehorn, everything into a school environment,
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it's a teacher myself for years. But when we're designing new schools, I think we need to design
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spaces where in which children can actually eat and have food. It shouldn't be just pushing the
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books to one side of the desk and having your lunch hours of the top of that day. We should be
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developing a positive food culture. I've also, just Rachel, as a member of the committee, put forward
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a proposal that we scrap water charges in school. It doesn't make sense to me that we're giving
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free meals, which is a really good thing. But yes, the water flowing in the taps, which the children
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drink at lunchtime is charged. I think we need to abolish those charges. One concern, as I'm sure
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you're aware, one concern many parents and teachers have is the amount of waste at the moment. So,
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how can that be tackled? Yeah, it is an issue. And yet we have seen some schools have a really good
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system. Many schools send home the lunches and some have compostable facilities on site.
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When our committee went to Finland, sometimes simplicity is the best way of solving many problems.
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So, in Finland, the day we were there, instead of having 14 or 15 choices in the menu, there were
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two choices. And those two choices were standardized across the city of Helsinki. All food was served on
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plates with knives and farks. Navi-enforcing, kind of the takeaway culture that has, you know,
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gotten a grip of Western countries in recent years, they were having it in the traditional way,
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knife-fark plate. The plates are washed in the school in a dishwasher facility. So, that's a very
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simple way. That's the way many households eat, not all households eat, but that's the way many
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households eat. And we think that should be looked at. But schools have themselves devised.
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Many principles came forward and told us of their systems, quite simply involves most children
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taking home on eating lunches or boxes. Isn't there a danger that they're just going to go into
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the bin at home? Yeah, but the other point our committee's raised, and I've discussed this with
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the minister, is that portion size needs to be looked at. In that model in Finland, they go up to
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the bamboree in their school. The child serves or gets assistance in serving their food. In Ireland,
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it's a standardized portion. So, the child in June-Rinfans, the five-year-old is eating the same or
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at least is served the same size portion as the adolescent in six-class who could be playing
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loads of sport and doing Irish dancing, burning off energy. So, I think there needs to be, we need to
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look at how portions are served at different class levels. That certainly needs to be in the mix
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as well, and it's central to our report. Kyle Crow, thank you very much for joining us this afternoon.