Camilla Frazier

0:00A Texan rancher mysteriously disappears. His wallet still look to house. His keys are there. His truck's still there. Did he intentionally leave to get away from something, or is there something more important? Until the case is turned on its head. Somebody had them when they were asked for ransom. We never in our wildest dreams felt like this could possibly be an abduction. And a grisly discovery breaks the case wide open. There was rumors on the investigation that it had been cut up by the butcher. Right away I noticed what I recognized to be a human skull. When evidence points to his inner circle, police home in on an unlikely criminal. They moved in, they didn't have a job, had no place to go. He's fed up with all of the trouble that comes along with this lifestyle.

1:00She was going to lose everything and have nothing. That's the whole piece that set this dynamite into motion. I think this is even harder than any top of TV script I could have written. The small town of Dahlhart is in the West Texas Panhandle about 80 miles north of Amarillo. Dahlhart's a really tight-knit community. They always look out for each other. It's a real big agriculture place. The big thing is the XIT rodeo that comes around every year. Everybody really looks forward to it. But on July 14, 2017, one of the residents of this idyllic countryside town has gone missing.

2:02One of our patrol officers had a call to the police department on a reference to missing person. When he got there, he met with Jamie Frazier and Camie Frazier. The Frazier sisters have deep roots in the community and the local rodeo circuit. Jamie tells police that when she came to the family ranch to tend to her horse on July 11, she noticed that their 65-year-old father, Joel Frazier, was nowhere to be found. Jamie was not living in Dahlhart at the time, but she spoke to her down on a regular basis. He lives there with his daughter Camie and her husband Corey Tidro, and then they have a son. I live there as well. Jamie comes back to the house on the twelfth, but she doesn't see her father anywhere. The 13th, she comes back to feed the horse of same scenario. Joel's truck's there, Joel's not there. Two days later, nobody's seen him.

3:02When Jamie checked the house on the 14th, another red flag stood out. She located Joel's hat boots on his wallet. It was very rare for Joel to leave the house without his wallet. When Jamie questioned her sister, Camie had no inkling of Joel's whereabouts. After Joel's wife had passed away, Camie lived there for several years with Joel, and her husband Corey. Camie said Joel was an alcoholic. Would go for days at a time on a drinking binge. That's what she was alluding to. He was on the bender, he was out drinking. She just leave her dad was off on a guy live any weekend with a girlfriend somewhere. Camie, that was his normal one. There was no reason really to be concerned at that time. Camie's like, I don't know where he's at. And so Jamie started getting suspicious. Hey, something's not right here. Dad wouldn't just leave. I'm going to call the police. Police tried to pinpoint a timeline of Joel's disappearance.

4:06Camie reported the last time she saw her dad was 12th, and that he wasn't feeling well and she made him a milkshake. According to Camie, she would make him milkshake because evidently he wasn't eating very well. And she'd taken care of her dad. You know, after his wife passed away, Joel got to drink and pretty heavy and stuff, and his health was declining. Camie says she assumed Joel was feeling better the next morning, because when she went to check on him, he was gone. Talking to Camie, she said that it was not abnormal for her dad to just up and leave for several days of the time and not contact. Jamie doesn't agree with Camie. She remains convinced something has happened to their father. His wallet still looked at house. His keys are there. His truck is still there. The medication. The overnight bag is still there. If you're going somewhere, you take that stuff with you.

5:12With Jamie's dire concerns and Camie's dismissal, officers assess every possibility. There are some red flags whenever, you know, there's two separate stories from the reporting parties. One of them was very concerned. On the other one just believed it was him. Being out on one of his normal, we can getaways. Unfortunately. There's a lot of parameters that have to be met and show that, you know, Mr. Persons is in danger before we can move forward. We had to see what's going on with this person. Did they intentionally leave to get away from something, or is there something more? Joel Frazier was born December 18, 1951 and seemed destined for the life of a cowboy. He and his brother both grew up on the family ranch. Joel grew up here in the panel and part of New Mexico. He's been here pretty much all of his life.

6:14They owned a ranch. His dad and the man and he grew up on the ranch, just outside of Delaware. They really didn't do anything ordinary than what a farmer ranch kid would do growing up. Their dad kept them busy as a child when raising cattle and, you know, doing a lot of farming. And then that went into their adult life. In 1978, Joel started a family of his own with a successful young woman named Donna Petty. Joel meets Donna in his 20s. Donna's in real estate, so she's kind of got her career going. That would have been very intriguing for a man from small town, Dowheart. And so they fall in love, they get married and end up inheriting the ranch. Less than a year after they got married, Joel and Donna welcomed their daughter, Cammy, into the world.

7:21Joel delighted in raising her in the cowboy lifestyle. In these small towns where we have these huge rodeos, most dads who are into the rodeo scene that have little girls, their little girls are going to grow up. Learning the whole rodeo scene and it's huge bonding for a dad and a daughter. Cammy, so you want to be the rodeo queen? Well, rodeo queen is like the homecoming queen of the rodeo. You have to be good at all of the different events in the rodeo, the mutton bust and the rope and the riding. When she won rodeo queen, it felt like an XFT rodeo and he was so proud of Cammy. And I think for Cammy, it was just the spotlight. She wanted to be the center of attention. When Cammy was 13, Joel and Donna added a second daughter to the family, Jamie.

8:21She proved to be just as dedicated to the rodeo as her sister. When Jamie got up at high school, she got the opportunity to run for rodeo queen. Jamie was definitely a better hand on the horse and she was just better at roping. You tell that Joel was a proud man, that he was very proud of Jamie. I think there was a lot of jealousy there because Jamie roped with her dad a lot. And Cammy didn't fall through like Jamie did. Cammy was a little proud for her, but it took the spotlight off her. As Cammy and Jamie got older, they moved out and started lives of their own. Cammy married Corey Tidrell and the couple had a son while Jamie moved to nearby Canyon, Texas. Through it all, the frasers remained close net. They at one time had pawn shop here, they had blown the jaw on Donna and the girls actually run it.

9:26And they were pretty popular people in town. And Donna was a backbone of that family, 100%. And I think that's where Cammy and Jamie both kind of get a little bit of their tenacity from. In 2015, tragedy struck when Donna became fatally ill. She didn't last long. It was pretty quick death. I know Joel was a different person. He felt like he lost his whole world. It was at this time that Cammy and Corey come back and move back in with her father. You know, her father was alone now, she was worried about him. I do think it was a camper. I think it probably helped Joel to have her there. Even though he was surrounded by loved ones, 63-year-old Joel continued to struggle with the loss of his wife.

10:27After Donna passed away, you could tell he was going downhill. I think his answer was, drinking, drinking and roping. I always see what it does more roping and less drinking. Now, Joel's disappearance has left Delhart police trying to determine if it constitutes an emergency. Cammy said it was not abnormal for her to have just happened late for several days of the time and not contact. It's not something that anyone should be concerned about at that time because he always comes back. Jamie thought, yes, dad's gone on benders before. But his truck's here, his wallet's here. Something's not right about this. When officers take a closer look at Joel's wallet, Jamie points out something strange. The only thing that was not in the wallet was the stepper cart.

11:27It was believed that Joel just left and of course took a stepper cart just to find his trip. Joel's truck was still at the house, so they believed he might have been picked up by somebody. After speaking with Joel Frazier's daughters, Delhart police ramp up their efforts and conduct a search of the area, looking for any clues connected to the rancher's disappearance. We were told by several Joel's friends that he would go for, you know, two or three days out of town. But normally everybody was at poor reach him by phone. So it was out of character for Joel, not to be reachable. There's a local prison in Delhart that has some tracking dogs, so they thought, hey, let's call the prison, let's get the tracking dogs and see if we can track them. When I started the dogs of the house and we started a dog track to see if there was any sign that Joel had walked away from the property. And after several hours of doing a track, the dogs never left the property and kept coming back to the driveway.

12:30Did he get in a car and leave? Or did he never leave? Coming up, Joel's loved ones receive a heart-stopping message. She had received text messages that alluded to the fact that they had Joel. They wanted money for Joel's safe return. It has been three days since Joel Frazier was last seen. To ascertain if Joel could have taken off on his own, detectives check his bank accounts for clues. If Joel's out there driving around in somebody's car or with somebody, that's important information. And you could gather that information from the use of this debit card. There was no activity on his debit card. There was no activity on his bank account. And so there were kind of a loss for where he may be.

13:34News spreads fast in a small town. So before the end of the day, many of the locals have joined in the search. Myself and Jamie, we started the search party for Joel. And we looked, and we looked, and we looked. We wanted to find him, and we wanted to find him alive. Everybody looked at it as Joel was missing. It was a big deal for the community. After two days with no leads, police expand their manhunt into neighboring states. We were able to get him in and in as a missing person in a national database, as well as putting out a silver alert for his descriptors. Getting those alerts out nationally helped get everybody paying attention on looking for him.

14:35Though Cammy is unconcerned over her father's whereabouts, Joel's other daughter Jamie enlists the aid of social media. Jamie had taken to the party to create missing person posters that she posted all over the internet. Jamie was upset, her dad's missing, and she's trying to do everything she can to find him. Jamie's efforts soon result in a response from the public. But it's the last thing anyone was expecting. It's really after the social media post went out, Jamie received a message that somebody had Joel when they were asking for ransom. Jamie had received text messages that alluded to the fact that they had Joel, and they wanted money for Joel's safe return. We never in our wildest dreams felt like this could possibly be an abduction or a kidnapping. At this point, the Howard Police Department doesn't have the resources to complete this investigation thoroughly.

15:41So we look for help from the outside. We contacted the text arrangers and the FBI to come in and provide extra manpower. Investigators have Jamie contact the alleged kidnappers to negotiate Joel's safe return. We began looking into asking for proof alive. And anything that would prove that Joel was in fact with these people. They said that they would provide that proof, but she needed to pay them $1,000. This time detectives are able to use the exchange to trace the sender's phone number. What we figured out was the number actually tracked back to overseas. And then furthermore, we found that that particular number was tracked to a batch of numbers that have been used in other scams. A lot of these times the scammers will see missing person reports on social media.

16:42If you see this person contact such such number, let's try to take advantage of that. It was determined that one of these scammers had seen Joel's missing person posturing. They believed that it would be an easy target for awesome quick cash. I can't believe somebody would do that to her, you know. Jamie's soul heart broke over the whole situation. It basically wasted our time when we could have been focused on another avenue trying to find Joel. So we start working on our case again. Police can't miss all of Joel's regular haunts. Hoping one of his friends might have seen something suspicious in the days leading up to his disappearance. His friend Chris divulges a shocking story from July 11th. The day Joel was last seen. He said, there was an altercation between Cammy and Joel. Happened at the rodeo arena.

17:42There was a big blow up, a big fight. There was some words spoken like, I don't want to see you again. Seven days have passed since Joel Frazier was reported missing on July 14th, 2007. But detectives have just found a witness who may have some key insight. Well, I know the last night that I seen Joel, we'd been out at the exact same year of injuries. And we had what was all a practice night and we were practicing our team opening. And Joel was opening a little bit that night. Witnesses say Joel brought Cammy's son to the arena with him. But when he left, he seemed to forget the child.

18:43I guess about 8, 30 or 9 o'clock, Joel had decided to go to the house and he had actually left the grandson there. I seen him driving out the gate. It was probably 30 minutes later. His daughter showed up. Cammy was very upset about Joel for getting her son there at the event. I rode over and talked to her a little bit. She was mad because he drove off left the boy there. She said, you know, I'm so ready to get rid of him. Investigators are curious to know what Cammy meant. They asked me what I thought and I thought, you know, I just thought she was talking about putting him in a home or something. According to Joel's friends, his relationship with Cammy had deteriorated in recent months. And the main issue seemed to be her husband, Corey.

19:43Joel, he didn't really care for Corey. Because he wasn't a cowboy, he didn't fit in at all. Joel believes that he was taking Cammy down the wrong road. Corey, he's kind of hard to explain. You can tell when somebody's really shifty. They both were two peas in a pod and they fed off of each other. Cammy's story, surprisingly, is one that is pretty common. In this area, methamphetamine is the drug. And if you get mixed up with that, unfortunately, it's hard to get out. Your life starts going downhill. Somebody who's on top of the world, a rodeo queen, the apple of a bird, a dog, a dog, a dog, a dog. And I think that's what I'm talking about. Somebody who's on top of the world, a rodeo queen, the apple of her father's eye. But it just takes that one person that introduces that one little thing into your life,

20:44that changes your life forever. And Cammy's case, that was met in Corey. When you see her, when she's 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, she's pretty and she's got good smile. And then you see what years of hard living in methamphetamine have done to somebody, aside from what it does to their life. Those close to the family tell police they believe Cammy and Corey returned to the ranch with their eight-year-old son, not to care for Joel, but to take advantage of him. They'd moved in because they were doing no. They didn't have a job, had no place to go. So Joel opened his house up to him, give him a place to live. Joel had mentioned that they were trying to cook mess at the house when he wasn't putting up with it no more.

21:45He's fed up with all of the trouble that comes along with this lifestyle that Cammy's been living, and he's about ready to kick both her and her husband out of the house. To investigators, the revelation puts Cammy's statements in a different light. Cammy just didn't seem too concerned. I think she played it off that this was normal. It's no big deal. And now, it's concerning to me as an investigator, why don't we have lack of emotion for your dad that you live with that you're taking care of, and now he's missing in it's no big deal. Why is one sister desperately looking for him in the other night? We're starting to believe Cammy knows one of the she's telling us at this time and that she's maybe hiding something. So it was a term that we would do a search warrant on the house. On July 20th, 2017, nine days after Joel's disappearance,

22:47police execute a search warrant on the Frazier home. Whilst curing the residents to begin a search warrant, I went and spoke to Cammy and Corey, and I was able to collect their cell phones until then we would be escorting them out. Inside the house, we'd located what I knew to be a homemade ice cream maker in the sink, a container for that, with a liquid that appeared to be a melted ice cream. We were able to find remnants of the milkshake that Cammy had made for Joel over the past few years. So we took samples of that. And then we found a purse. Going through that purse, you could tell that based on Ideas and so forth, there was going to be Cammy Tidros. And that purse was two items that were interesting. One was a bottle of off-brand sleep aid, but when you opened it up, it was nothing but white powder. Not knowing exactly what it was, we went ahead and seized that. Investigators also find something even more suspicious.

23:50When that purse was an unsigned, last-wheeled testament for Joel Frazier, that had been sent from his attorney dated back in April of 2017. It wasn't signed. And as you look through the wheel, he had changed the previous wheel to take Cammy from being the main beneficiary, to change it to Jamie, being the main beneficiary, and kind of cutting Cammy out, if you will, of everything in the event Joel died. Finding the wheel was a huge thing. Cammy's using his assets, using his money, and then ultimately, she gets a letter, she sees all the way to men I'm losing everything. Coming up, a suspect is cornered. Okay. So, what are you telling me then? I guess I'm probably going to need a lawyer. And investigators begin to fear the worst. My gut feeling was, you know, ultimately that Joel was probably dead. While conducting a search warrant on the Frazier home,

24:50investigators have just discovered an unsigned wheel, removing Cammy as Joel's beneficiary. When talking to Joel's attorney, the one who drafted the wheel for him, he talks about how, in March of 2017, he was a victim of the murder of Joel's attorney. The one who drafted the wheel for him, he talks about how, in March of 2017, into April of 2017, Joel came to him and said that he wanted to change his wheel. Joel's attorney stated that he had just revised Joel's will and sent a copy to the house, and that he never received a signed copy and return. And this happened just before Joel was reported missing. Since Cammy still lived on the property, if the wheel came in the mail, it's very possible that Cammy might have opened the mail and saw that she was no longer in the wheel and gotten very upset. Now I have a reason why Cammy's a red flag.

25:51There is a motive now about why. Analysis of the ice cream and the powdery substance found in Cammy's purse provides another clue. To us into the emerald, crime lab, they do drug analysis, and part of that is they can tell substances, and that's who gave us the reading back that it was Dip and Hygiene. Dip and Hygiene is the degree in for Benadryl, a sleep in medicine. Cammy, every evening, would make Joel a milkshake. He wouldn't expect to find ice cream with sleep medicine in it. That coupled with the loose powder dip and Hygiene, it all made a lot of sense. After concluding their search, investigators confront Cammy with the evidence. Cammy, when she met with me at the police department the day after the initial search warrant, she was cordial.

26:52But she refused to speak to it, so she wanted an attorney. I honestly don't have much more to say. Okay, so what are you telling me then? I guess I'm probably with me to lawyer. My gut feeling was ultimately that Joel was probably Dip, but we needed to find the body to help us with the investigation. Police obviously have gotten all this evidence pointing directly towards Cammy. However, Joel's still missing, so there's no body. It's very hard to charge anybody with a murder when there's no body. Cammy is released for the time being, but police keep a watchful eye on her movements. Police interview Corey over the phone, but he takes the same stance as his wife. This investigation went over several months, and I know for me, I want things to happen quick. And it taught me a lot about patients.

27:52As the investigation continues through the summer, police begin hearing consistent rumors from associates of the Fragers. Rumors swirl in these small towns, especially the longer someone's missing, that gives more time for rumors to kind of flare up and names get thrown out. There was rumors in the investigation that Joel had been disposed of and he had been cut up by the butcher. And when they say butcher, we learned they were alluding to Benjamin Buck. Benjamin Buck's family owned the Dowheart processing plant, which is essentially a butcher shop. If you had a cow and you wanted a butcher, that's where you took it. They cut it up in a nice little stakes for you. Ben Buck is an own associate of Cammy and Corey, and not in a good way. There's some Matthews going on, maybe even meth cells. If someone wanted to get rid of a body,

28:54Buck might be the person to talk to. But with only rumors, investigators know they need more. After, you know, we began looking into Ben Buck. We received an honest tip that Joel's body would possibly be located at the processing plant. Across the street where Ben Buck resides. The tipster says that if police searched the meat processing plant near Joel's house, they would find his remains. When we interviewed him, he said that he had heard the rumors. So he had snuck over there one night. This individual basically had snuck over onto the property and looked in this incinerator. They took a video and sent it to me and said this is where Joel is.

29:55Four months after the disappearance of Joel Frazier, police act on a tip that his body might be hidden in a nearby incinerator. I think he had been told that's where Joel is by someone. He wanted to see for himself. Not only did they take a video, but they shown a flashlight in there and they could see Joel's body in there. The building turns out to be owned by the family of Benjamin Buck. When it spoke to Ben Buck's mother, Amy Buck, I received verbal consent to search the premises. Amy Buck, the owner of the processing plant, led us to where the incinerator was. Inside that barn, where both Benjamin Buck and his brother Casey Buck were assaulting animal hides, which is the process they do to preserve the hides of these animals at Butchery. The Buck's tell investigators that the processing plants incinerator

30:57has been inoperable for some time. But they're more than happy to let them look inside. Amy had her two boys, Ben Buck and Casey Buck show us how to open the incinerator. And I remember sitting there watching they were extremely nervous. They came in and they left and we opened it up. Right away, I noticed what I recognized to be a human skull. And as I'm looking closer, I see what looks like. Okay, I know that's to be a human hand. In my heart, I knew, I mean, without a doubt, that was Joel Frazier. I was looking at. Once we locate the body and the incinerator and I start looking at it a little more closely, I'm able to see what turned out to be a dental implant with the initial J Frazier. Following the discovery, police take Benjamin Buck

31:57in for questioning. Over the course of his interrogation, they try to get him to confirm his involvement in Joel's disappearance. Were you around? You came in for me that week? And after Joel left him? Well, I really had to, I enjoyed it. We went down on one day and like, my dad's gonna like, well, okay, where'd he go? A lot of them. For the majority of that seven-hour interview, pressing into him, he just wasn't wanting to give it up. But once I got the right button pushed and got through to him, it's almost as if a rock got lifted off of him. When there be a reason why, from multiple people, they have heard this statement come out as your mouth. Well, if Cory asked me to help him get rid of the body, I would do it because that's what friends do. Not even help you get rid of nobody's body. And yet here we are, and the body sitting at your mom and dad's place.

32:59But why don't we tell you to have to go kid? Now there's no way out. Benjamin finally tells police that on July 12, he received a phone call from Cammy Frazier's husband, Cory. Cory told him I need you to bring some string, a sheet, and a wheelbarrow to Joel's house. When I asked him what he thought that was for, he indicated right away he knew Joel was dead. They had prior conversations of wanting to kill Joel how they were gonna do that. When he gets into the house, he sees who he recognized to be Joel, sitting in a brown with a cliner in the living room, appears to be dead. Where you have far away, where you two, four, wait till his house right open the closet with his breathing, should've put our way up. Well, do you tell that Joel? Do you move it up? No. Cammy's in there trying to clean up.

34:00He sees some blood on the ceiling, he sees some blood on the chair around Joel. Ben says Cammy and Cory told him they decided to drug Joel to make it easier to kill him. Cammy had made the milkshake for Joel and put a medicine in it. In order to get him to go to sleep, he was checked on several times to see if the medicine had taken effect. Ultimately, Joel was shot with a 22 in his head. When they found out that that did not kill Joel, they went and retrieved a larger caliber hanging on a 45 and shot him with that also in the head. Ben told me that Cory had a shoulder holster with what it looked like a silver. We're a chrome plated 45 and Cammy had a pistol on her hip. After they finished cleaning up the crime scene, Benjamin says he agreed to help them dispose of the body. You brought a wheelbarrow, you brought a twine, you brought a sheet

35:03and bought your own admission, bought your own confession. So you solved in and used the twine to wrap around the body. It was no wonder it was only like the end of the sheet. Like tile thinned. Like a burrito. At which point Cory cammy will that body in the wheelbarrow down the street because it was only a block away to the processing plant. In the middle of the night, Cory dumps the body from the wheelbarrow into the skid steer and he drives the skid steer over to this incinerator at the back of the property. They open up the incinerator and they dump Joel's body with the skid steer into that incinerator. But it's not been functional for quite a while. So Benjamin obtains a propane tank with a wand that's attached to it. Now this would be something that you would utilize to light and burn off weeds. Cammy lit it for Cory and Cory stuck that into the port hole up against the body of Joel and left it going because as long as you've got that lit and fuel,

36:04in this case propane feeding into it, it's going to run. They leave thinking that that's going to burn that body and dispose of that evidence and they'll be home free. But Benjamin says things obviously didn't turn out according to plan. It got super hot in the incinerator, which is supposed to do, but it didn't get hot enough to burn the human body. And so what it did is mummified him and preserved him in their attempt to destroy the body they preserved it. Benjamin is arrested and police use his confession to obtain warrants for Cammy and Cory as well. We arrested Cammy and Cory at the gas station. They're there, feeling up. And so we feel like they're fixing to run.

37:04Do you give me permission to search your car? No? I've spoken with a lawyer and no, I don't give you up for some damn thing. There was no doubt in my mind that there were the two murders of Joel Frazier and from there it just became how do we prove it? After a four month investigation, Cammy Frazier and her husband Cory Tidrill are charged with the murder of Joel Frazier. Their co-conspirator, Benjamin Bup, agrees to testify against the couple in exchange for reduced charges. Ben ends up taking a plea deal. He is charged with the murder of Joel Frazier. Their co-conspirator, Benjamin Bup, agrees to testify against the couple in exchange for reduced charges. They're charged with tampering with evidence. Let's be honest about it. Benjamin Bup, what in the most upstanding person?

38:04He has a history, he's a criminal. But that doesn't mean he can't tell the truth. And there's 100% belief in my mind that in that confession I got from him, I'll say was mostly the truth. However, prosecutors don't have to rely solely on Bucks testimony. The most important reason evidence was Joel's body and the autopsy report. They confirmed that medication was used for them to put Joel to sleep. And the entry and exit points of the rounds fired into Joel's skull. In a period that both shots came from behind, one of them being the smaller caliber 22 and the other one being a larger caliber, 45. Once we were able to get the toxicology results back on his tissue samples and found that there was a large amount of different hydrogen being in his system. It all made perfect sense of what we were looking at. Cory is tried first in October 2019, more than two years after Joel Frazier's death.

39:10He's found guilty of first degree murder and sentenced to life in prison. Cammy's trial begins two months later. And a key part of her defense strategy is to shift blame onto her newly convicted husband. I never put a gun in Cammy's hand. That doesn't necessarily make her blameless. Obviously she doesn't have to be the one that shoots to be guilty of murder if you participate in it. We're trying to get Cammy as far away from the actual killing as possible as far as culpability wise. You know, with some hope that maybe the jury would see her as somebody that was connected but not criminally so. According to the prosecution, Cammy was no innocent bystander. They argue she was the only one with a strong reason to kill her father. I think the motive for this killing was the fact that Joel took Cammy out of the will and left Cammy in the will.

40:15And so I think that's the whole piece that set this down in mind into motion, the explosion, if you will. I think when Cammy found out that Joel was trying to get her and Cory out of the house and as she'd been written out of the will, I was a breaking point for Cammy. She was going to lose everything and Cammy was going to end up with everything, you know. And I think that's where she did it. With her being on the drugs and stuff, I think she just snapped literally, you know, and did the unthinkable. I mean, how can you kill your father and put him in a senator? In the end, Cammy ends up being found guilty of first degree murder and receives a life sentence. There's no doubt in my mind in dealing with both Cammy and Cory that they're evil people. They have zero compassion for human life. And I think life in prison for both of them was a fitting disposition.

41:17The story is just really sad, you know, you've got Jamie. She lost her mother and now she's lost her father. And the person who's her sister is the one who's responsible for it. How do you get past that? I think Joel to want to be remembered is just as a good old boy. Just an okay old boy, you know. He loved his family, he loved his wife, he loved his daughters. Joel definitely didn't deserve to die the way he did. He didn't deserve that at all. You have a father that's willing to give you the world. But yeah, you're willing to take his life, you know, what a shame.