Can Sunderland SHOCK Arsenal? | John Cross on Saturday’s HUGE Clash

0:00This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. MUSIC Hello everyone, I'm Chris Mimple, welcome to How Are The Podcasts. And if we wanted a few games to remind us of just how far we've come, then we've got three over the course of nine days. Let's see, Sunderland, take on Arsenal, a Manchester City, either side of our first game in the European competition for over 50 years. And first up, we have the visit of the current Champions Arsenal to the stadium of light for a Saturday evening kickoff in front of the lights and the cameras, just to give it an extra little bit of magic. And that, of course, brings back memories of last November when Arsenal last travelled north and a late Brian Brobigall earned us a point in one of the most memorable games from last season.

1:03And to see if we might get fireworks again this week, we're very pleased to see the return of the Chief Football Riders at the Daily Merit to how we're the podcast. And of course, Arsenal reporter extraordinaire, which is, of course, the brilliant John Cross. Hello, John. Hello, Chris, nice to be with you. Yeah, brilliant. Thanks again for taking the time out for us, John. How's it going? Yeah, good. Thank you. Yeah, good. Good. Yeah, good. Been busy lively starts the season, covered lots of games. And yes, seeing the same, the same, the same, the fact that Arsenal kind of, you know, have been kind of keeping very close tabs on Sunday and two. So being it, because I'm very interested to see kind of whether it can overcome this kind of second season syndrome, Fad, which I'm sure has kind of dominated a lot of conversations. But I'm hopeful they can. Well, we did a whole podcast on that during the summer. And it was something like the sides that have gone down in the second season

2:03is something that around 10%. I mean, exactly. I think it's like 12% or something like that. Occasionally, the side have gone down. So this second season syndrome is a bit of a mess. Yeah, when you actually, my only argument, my only argument, and what I say, my fear is that basically the problem is that it's the European aspect. And someone that covered a bit of it, which that's that time, that's the thing because I have no doubt that basically Sunday as a sort of a team as a force, will go from strength to strength. But European football never to be strange stretches, your resources, your strengths, fatigue levels. I think we might even see it this weekend, as some of it's saying, I asked no one to reverse because I asked no I've got to battle that. You've got to overcome that. And I think they're basically whatever reason it does my head in really basically. I don't know why teams particularly struggle with Sunday Thursday,

3:05but they do. It must be a mindset thing. And basically, yeah, it's a bit, it's a bit of an oddity. But that's the thing that's sort of kind of, you're right. I'm not worried about the kind of the straight flat second season. That's not, but it's the Ipswich at element. That sort of thing when it stretches you anyway. We'll see. Well, we'll definitely go back to it because the other aspect is there. Someone didn't sign a Phineone George in building up to that European company. And so we'll get back into that. But before we get into the weekend's game and get in Arsenal and Sunland, we last talked you back in February. And that was ahead of the game at the Emirates. But at that time, John, you were already preparing for I think what we said was your if world cup following England. So how did you find it all? Yeah, great. Actually, I enjoyed it. I have to say, you know, so disappointing at the end, but you know, best finish on foreign soil. I think you have to take that into context.

4:05The cover in the Mexico game and the atmosphere in that was the certainly the best thing I've ever done, professional. I mean, honestly, it was brilliant, absolutely brilliant. I'm a passionate England fan and completely biased on England. You know, I'm kind of the likes of Sam and partial and absolutely everything else but completely biased on England. And yeah, I got caught up in it. I did think England could go further and I think there had a wonderful opportunity in the semi-final. So that ended in never-soubable disappointment. But my world, what an experience. What a tournament. Mexico was amazing. Just amazing. Honestly, the best thing, best game that I've, as I say, best atmosphere, best game, best exciting, best drama, everything. How did it touch with everything? It was amazing. Yeah. Just in terms of England, I mean, like I said, you've covered England a lot when it comes to major tournaments. Is that another one that got away, do you think? Yeah, I think in 2018, when England reached the semi-finals,

5:08I think the issue was that no one really expected it. So it was a nice surprise. So you couldn't be too disappointed. Could they have done better on the day, yes. But then basically, I don't think anyone came away with anything but unexpected delay. And I think then based in 2022, you could argue that was England's best opportunity of everything, basically. Because yes, they were now in the quarters, which was earlier. But my word, they played well in that game. And if Harry Kane scores that penalty, they're basically in Harry Kane should be knighted, by the way. And there's no approach for me. I think that England would have gone on to win and go through a really, really, really due because they were playing ever so well. And that was the one. And this time, I don't think they were at their best by any means.

6:11The travel definitely affected them big time. But I do feel as if once you were ahead in that game against an aging Argentina team, which wasn't as good as it was, you know, basically, I think it's an opportunity. And that's the key. You know, basically, it's what could have been. And I actually think that maybe that's what Thomas II called and I think in his kind of breakdown, struggled to understand. It was the disappointment because it was there. But basically caused, you know, a lot of negative reaction and kind of, you know, feedback and what have you. So I think it was that element. It's a sheer disappointment because it was there. It was there for the taking. So the fallout, I think, was, you know, as a result quite strong. Well, just generally, I mean, you know, the last couple and last few, I suppose, maybe World Cup have had, have been controversial in some ways, either before or during the tournament.

7:13But with this one, the 2026 World Cup, you know, how do you see that having a lasting impact, you know, in terms of, especially in terms of what was seen since regarding infantino and FIFA? But where do you think the 2026 World Cup is going to live amongst, you know, in the history of World Cups? Oh, no, I think it was a good tournament. Well, organised. Please don't get me wrong. But the template was set basically. For what happened afterwards, it was set well before the tournament because of ticket prices, which priced out average fans, was ticket price, which priced out, frankly, long-serving fans. I mean, I know one in particular was a top capo. It basically went to the Frenleys to get his caps, didn't go to single World Cup match. Because basically you don't get caps for attending tournament games, but you do, you know, you do get them for Frenleys. I think there was an element of, yeah, I want to keep up my ranking to make sure

8:14to get all the games, which is, you know, amazing in an app, but honestly, England fans are absolutely amazing, fabulous. But, do I really want to put the money into the FIFA pot? That's the problem. And, you know, during the tournament we had the Balagun incident, which for me was the tipping point, you know, that was the one that got me. You know, they'd lost me at that point, basically, way before the sell-off. And then the sell-off finishes. So I think it's a point in time for football. As a tournament, as, you know, self-contained tournament, it's one that I will, you know, I will look back upon with great funds. But, you know, I'm in a situation whereby I'm not in the fans, but where, you know, having to, frankly, remorge the house to Blum and Go to Games, absolutely outrageous. Yeah, that's it. Well, last one on the World Cup in general, John, because, as was said, you've done a few, but how has the tournament changed, you know, since you first started covering World Cup,

9:16and has it changed for the better overall? Well, I think my favourite one is probably 2002, because it was, you know, it was just such a spectacular setting. And it was, you know, it's become much more commercialised, it's become more expensive. But I do think that that was kind of particularly reflected by being in America, where it is incredibly expensive, I have to say. So, the two things combined. I actually enjoyed Qatar. Never thought I would say that, but I did, you know, basically, because it's a one-sitting World Cup, and that concept, you know, a lot of fans who went and enjoyed it. I've got major misgivings, absolute massive misgivings about, you know, you're being hosted there in the first place. Please don't get me wrong. But as an entity, and as something that was held there, if you speak to a lot of fans, they'll say, that was the best, you know, basically, because it was just on your doorstep the whole time.

10:16And it was amazing from that aspect, you know, it was, you know, I mean, I actually think it's a concept that, that, that, that we should look at again, you know, sort of said that, you know, basically, if you could do one-sitting World Cup, it's impossible to think of too many nations, it's too many cities that could host it, because it's on such a grand scale. But, you know, it was a concept which I think worked for fans, and I think a lot of fans actually really enjoyed it. So, yeah, I think the aspect for me is that basically just, it's changed, you know, just, just beyond all recognition really, I think. You're probably going off stadiums in London, actually, thinking about it. But the problem is that you just haven't got the, I don't think you've got the, the sort of the hotel rooms, the infrastructures that we're looking for, you know, you probably have that then basically, I mean, you know, we sort of kind of held European championships,

11:17and we sort of don't hold it in London, you hold it across the country. And rightly so, because it's just, it could only be in a city in a smaller country, in my view, because imagine, imagine holding it in a city like a London. Well, it would be ridiculous to see unfair on every other city. It would be ridiculous. You know, I mean, listen, I think, you know, way, you know, when we always get to fine, or I guess it's the national stadium, but that always feels like a stretch to me. But I mean, it would have to be in a city, you know, in a country where, you know, a bit like, you know, sort of guitar and dough heart, then basically otherwise it just doesn't work. Can you imagine the four in rightly so? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But look, let's move on to Arsenal, because as I said, we last talked to you before Arsenal's re-knowing win over Sunday and back in February. They then went on to win nine out of the 13 remaining games in the league, then they won the title by seven points in the end. And when we talked, it seemed like nerves were building.

12:19There was a couple of iffy results before they played Sunday and put, you know, after that, it didn't really seem like there was ever that much doubt, actually, in the running that they would end up getting over the lane. Really? That's a man just a city. The one that was at the one the last five or six or something, and in the end, it just seems like it was a... I think the biggest tribute I can pay to McKellan Teta's Arsenal and the way they run it is, they run it twice. They basically won it before that kind of, you know, sort of kind of a city game that got themselves into position whereby they really should have been, you know, home-hosed. But then they wobbled and then my word did they wobble. And then they went on and won it again. Honestly, what mindset, what character and what strength, you know, of power and stuff. It's absolutely brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. So you sort of see them do that. I do think they were ups and downs. I listen, Sunland game, a good game at the Emirates, didn't I? Yeah, yeah. Really are game. I think it was, it finished shrie now.

13:19And I don't think that was a reflective storyline, frankly, it's a game. And I just feel as if the one thing that I think is reflected from there into this season is that basically they are playing with much more freedom. You so notice it. I mean, it is players playing in form, but it's also about those nerves who are overwhelming, they're weighed them down, you know, and basically at times, last season, you know, particularly the Emirates, it felt a bit egregious. Don't get me wrong, it's not every game. It's being so unfairly characterized as basically, you know, nerves at the Emirates and stuff. On occasion, yes, it was nervy. But honestly, the atmosphere was good on, you know, on more occasions and not. But it was particular games where you just felt, you know, basically, if the other team score first here, it could get a bit more, you know, bit twitchy. And so I actually think the positive is that now you can really feel the, you know, the kind of the optimism and the kind of the confidence within the,

14:22and the belief within the fanbites as well as the player. Yeah, well, do you think, you know, when they did end up getting over the line, do you think those celebrations, whether it was players, fans or whatever, told everybody everything in terms of, you know, what it just meant, of course, winning the title, I think it was well 2004, something since the last one, but not just that, just to, just to get that off their back because it had been hanging over them for so many years, that it almost, they needed to just tick that box before they moved on. Yeah, they did. They definitely did. I think that was a really interesting point. I think basically, you know, you're fighting on you against the best manager of the Premier League era. But, you know, most powerful team of the Premier League era, Man City and Guadalajola. And I think any team that overcomes Guadalajola, you know, deserves ultimate respect. I mean, Liverpool did it, you know, and they asked and all. And I just feel as if, you know, that takes some doing. And I think you get great confidence from that. So I think then that basically, Arsenal deserve great credit.

15:25And, you know, yeah, it did feel nervous at times. I think the celebrations just showed what it meant. I mean, it's slightly, slightly did, you know, amused me really because under Venger, you know, Arsenal were just dominant for some of the years, fighting out albeit with, you know, first you knighted and then Chelsea. But then basically, they're massive club, massive football club Arsenal. And I think that sometimes it was painted last season. There's plucky little Arsenal basically trying to go and see what I'm seeing. Well, you know, actually, you know, basically, you know, they're expected to win. The fans don't expect to wait 22 years. And that's kind of, you know, part of the part of the thing. So, you know, I mean, it's like, I'm sure you have it. The basic, some people just don't understand the kind of the size and, you know, history of Sunderland as a football club. You know, you get patronised, don't you? And basically, I see it and particularly in kind of people that don't understand the kind of the history and the atmosphere,

16:27the passion of the fans, I actually think, you know, that's the most important thing. And I think the celebrations, you know, that are still enjoyed, just showed what I used club there. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, looking at last season as a whole for Arsenal, of course, look, winning the Premier League was the all-important thing. But when I was looking into it and then I saw, you know, of course, I've completely forgot that we're knocked out the FA Cup by Southampton in the court final. Because the big things, of course, we're losing out to Man City in the League Cup Final. Then, of course, the big world losing on penalties. Few penalty kicks away from lifting the Champions League, losing out to PSG. Of course, the celebrations were fantastic with the Premier League, but was there a slight bit of frustration that last season could have been even better? I would say more regret in frustration, you know, simply because I think the most important thing, if you'd said to any Arsenal fan in March, I think they would have beaten you hand off of the title. Just the title, you know, basically. People like me would go on about the quadruple, but the quadruple never happened.

17:32But, you know, remarkable teams hit the treble, but then basically, arguably do it, you know, having already won previous trophies. So I think, you know, Man United Man City, you know, being of this kind of examples and that. I think, you know, you sort of kind of, it's been more established, if you like, you know, sort of kind of that winning mentality. But I think Arsenal fans would have easily done it. But once you're in the Champions League Final, you're there really. They went ahead, they basically had a game plan, you know, did sit deep and sort of kind of, I think, on another day of timber as playing, then basically it probably done can see the penalty to be honest. And PSG, you know, actually created very little, very, very little. So, you know, they were a team, even though Arsenal was sort of kind of pushed back a bit, they were definitely keeping PSG at arms length. I think PSG would have struggled to score, you know, if, if, you know, Arsenal hadn't made that mistake.

18:35So I think that's regrett really. I do feel as if our title will have the bit between these two teams. He's a manager that likes targets and likes something to wait for. And I think the fact is that basically I'm sure that you'll have the Champions League in his size. Would it have made it the perfect season if Spurs had dropped through the track down in Gondar? Oh, I did, you know, I did Spurs on the final day of the season against Everton. And so, I certainly didn't want to see them go down. I've got to say because I think the stadium is absolutely fantastic. And, you know, it's, Spurs always a big story and sort of kind of a big club. And I do like sort of kind of a big clubs. But I do think, you know, some Arsenal fans kind of found it, you know, vaguely amusing to watch. But I actually think a lot of Arsenal fans, you know, and certainly Spurs fans enjoy the North London derby to a point so much that they actually wouldn't have wanted to lose that really. So, you know, I'll leave that to the supporters, but I think for a lot of support.

19:39If some support is definitely, but then basically for others, I think they enjoy the North London derby too much. I'm sure if you speak to Lincoln City fans, they're absolutely devastating, but Spurs didn't rule that out. But, yeah, look, I know, but ever, ever, ever in a million years believe they would go, you know. I would go to games and I did ask them, Villas Spurs. And basically, they won that day and I'd, you know, Villas rested a few players and I thought, of course, that's a bit of a harsh on sort of kind of West Ham and stuff. I always remember when there was one sat today where there was one point, there was a five point gap. Because West Ham had taken a spurs, I think, or Spurs were not winning. And then basically all of a sudden it was, you know, even at that point, I never believed. Because Spurs had players and they had deserving. And honestly, I will always maintain people, the irregular Spurs report is of the beat report is basically from other papers. You know, when I'd go to a Spurs game, I'd say, they're not going now.

20:41And basically, you know, they'd say, yes, they are. I'd just didn't see a world in which they would. I was very similar to you, John, until Spurs came to the stadium of light and it was a deservedly first game. And Sunderland had a real off day and we still beat them. And I remember a callous and upfront and thinking, wow, you know, he missed a few chances. And I thought their heads just hit the ground when we took the lead. But just to ask, like a lot said about them getting over the line and winning that title again. But just in the grand scheme of things, let's look at the Premier League history. You know, if you mention the Invincibles, you'll subconsciously think about the football they have played. You know, same with a couple of Fergie sides at United, the Pepp City sides. You know, you think a Grady Allers Chelsea and how they have played. How do you think people are going to view this title winning Arsenal side in years to come? I mean, will this side be looked at maybe with a bit of affection or not?

21:43Yeah, I don't listen at times last season. I didn't think it was great to watch, but I didn't, you know, I personally don't think that people remember that at all, not at all. You know, Pandas will always say, you know, be split between 98 and 2002 as to what Arsenal seems the best. You know, basically, the sort of the Pandas are today played in the teams against them. I think Gary Levoise on record is saying 98 was the best. Well, you know, I look back upon the absolute kind of the epitomeal kind of, you know, the crowd in glory on Vengas' work as the Invincibles to go through a season up beaten. But, you know, did they play with as much freedom as styles 2002? Probably not, but does anyone remember that? I don't think so. You know, so I know people with label set piece FC.

22:44I think that was partly because they were good at set pieces. Or why wouldn't you then use set pieces? And then also partly because they were slightly nervous, you know, had times. So they kind of went into their show and used what was best. But does it, you know, will that be a feature in five years time? No, I don't think it will. You know, you know, we were slots team as, you know, as kind of as isn't taming as clops team. Well, you know, does anyone really recall that? They probably do because slot, you know, you then got the sack after basically, you know, a frustrating season, which didn't play well. But I don't know. I don't think they do. I think they're basically in time. People just remember that you won the trophy. I do feel as if there's a change. I feel as if there's a change. I do feel as if Arsenal, you know, now signed a defender which makes them, you know, I'll go be the best in the league in concert.

23:45A fantastic establishment field in Bruno Gammarage. I do think that, you know, they might regret not doing another in attack. And then basically, you know, because they've let Martin Ali and Tross are going, he's just to a lesser extent as well, because he wasn't really playing. But, you know, have they left themselves a little bit short? You know, possibly it would be the answer on that one really. So I think they're playing with a bit more freedom and flair. And, you know, certain players didn't contribute massively to our season simply because of injuries and, you know, and form, you know, I'm really shining this time. So, you know, I do think they look very good at the moment. Yeah, yeah. But because Gary Neville always mentioned tonight the eight one because he had Mark Orton Mars absolutely flying out of more the time running in behind. So I think that's why he has nightmares about that 98. So you have mentioned the summer. Look, they spent around 200 million, I think, depending on which source you go off.

24:46But as he said, big sign ends, but there were huge links as well. Morgan Rogers, Benissius Jr., which I was listening to you on another podcast, you think that might have been taking them down a path that, you know, Arsenal could have never gone down. But, you mentioned that attack and player. They've got some fantastic attack and players already at the club. But, do you think, you know, if they had gotten over the line with a real high profile attack and player, that would have made them into a really great side rather than that one that's still looking for that answer. Look, I think what it would have done is elevate them to perhaps, you know, been able to dominate on the European stage as well. So I think that the one thing that I think they're desperate to do is go on and win and strengthen them and be stronger in the Champions League. So I feel as if, actually, they, you know, are in a position whereby I think they'll compete. Please don't get me wrong for the Champions League. I'm sure and be one of the teams that sort of kind of be pushing for the latter stage is of course.

25:50But I think with that kind of X factor, player, I think they're basically, I think that could have made the difference. That's where it is really. Don't get me wrong. I think most people would make Arsenal favorites. But the basic, I think, you know, the key is, and Verge was the master at this, wasn't he basically, you know, you're strengthen while you were ahead. Basically, I think that's what made United dominant for years. And I think they're basically, don't get me wrong. I also bought well and it's a good window, but it could have been a great window. Well, actually, we're really linked with Malik Prifana, who ended up signing for Sunderland. I was just going to ask you, do you think Arsenal were actually seriously looking at him as an option on that left hand side? I don't know. I think he was one that was put on the latest stages. And one that was particularly, you know, it's time to tell you what, though, you know, it drove interest, didn't it? I mean, that was, you know, if you look at it cynically, you know, basically a couple of people sort of said to me, oh, you know, those are right. So I said, oh, you can firm that in and base it the source.

26:50Oh, no, you know, so you know, and basically I'm thinking for a real, you know, as sure. I mean, why wouldn't you? Because basically if you were people around him, you know, they're basically, you know, it's suddenly if Arsenal interested, it sort of kind of drives an interest and whatever you. And then basically, I don't know, I got the impression that he was offered to them, rather than kind of it was then beyond that. But it's certainly drove his scramble, didn't it? On the last kind of 24, 36 hours of that window. I personally, I think he was someone that they looked at because he was offered to them, rather than kind of someone that they'd kind of they'd really gone in search of really. Because I think the one thing that comes really want to do, you know, he's a void, you know, signing a play that doesn't improve the level necessarily. And I think that basically they were looking in a particular area of that market. And it'll be really interesting to see where he goes from me. I've lost count of the numbers, you know, players that have gone to a team and probably actually listen to good advice, you know, from agents and what have you good agents and basically gone, okay, I'm going to make this step.

28:03And then basically go to this team because I'm going to play, I'm going to be believed in, I'm going to hit the ground running and kind of feel a confidence and a belief that really get me going. And honestly, for so many players, I think it's about a good progression in their career. And I think, you know, if you then going to, you know, be a bit part player, a one, you know, a one team, whereas you might be kind of a really, you know, a player that goes from strength to strength because, you know, you're a heartbeat on that team. Then I think it's only going to improve you as a player, but also help your progression. And basically it, you know, I get some entirely the amount of times to say now they should have, you know, this team should have, you know, signed such a player, they missed a trick. Well, honestly, if they don't make that move, then they don't become that player that they should have signed, you know, it's just the way it is, isn't it? You know, basically, I asked them, you know, Bruno Gamar is a great example. I still looked at him and he was clearly desperate to come before he went to Newcastle, but I still didn't think he was quite ready.

29:09And then basically, if he gone to Arsenal at that stage, would he be the player that he is now? I would argue not because he wouldn't have had the same opportunities, wouldn't have been at the same kind of heartbeat of the team. You know, he's gone to Newcastle, gone from strength to strength, kept into the team, heartbeat of the team, and basically taken a confidence and grown and has become that player. If he gone to Arsenal, I don't think he would have played as much. And then basically, you would have made that same progression. So it's all about making the right move. That's why I think, you know, players, you know, need good advice, need a good pathway. And then on the opposite side clubs, I think, you know, will play more for an established player, even if basically could have gotten cheaper because, you know, ultimately, they would have been wasted in a time if they'd time them early. Yeah, well, that's, yeah, that's that's Sunland fans cheering private plans all over Europe to see what was going on on that deadline, dear scramble for Fafana, but look, just again, looking at the Premier League in general, big news when Pep left sitting in the summer, of course.

30:16Morec has actually got off to a decent start going off the charity shale to people who were a bit worried about how strong maybe city were or maybe still are live a pool of starting from scratch, Manchester, see a later the rebuilding again Chelsea, starting down a different track, Villa, a struggling the key players spurs are still being spurs. I mean, on paper, it doesn't seem like there's many challenges that can really push us on the season, doesn't it? No, I think city will be there really do. I think Chelsea will be, you know, no, Arsenal beat Chelsea on Sunday, but I still feel as if Chelsea were there front three. And with no Europe, you know, I think it'll be really strong. I think there'll be two close challenges there. I think it'll be a tough Premier League. So I think actually, I don't think Arsenal will have a necessarily own way. I do think they should be favourites and they should, you know, fancy themselves to retain it. But do I think that they'll absolutely romper away with it? I've got friends telling me that they'll win it by Christmas one.

31:16It just never, it just never happens like that. It never happens like that. Well, that would be interesting because I think I think they might just just do that. But with that taking into account, you've just said, you know, you've got friends who were seeing the winner by Christmas. Where does that leave the expectation levels for Arsenal the season, especially after doing what they did last season? I mean, what is, what do you think par is for Arsenal the season in terms of a successful season? I just think it would retain the title was such a big thing to do. You know, I think they're basic. I think that that would be a huge achievement. It's difficult. You know, it's defending champions. People want, you know, to get at you and basic is demanding. I think anything on top of that would be a balance. I think, you know, retain in the title, making a statement being one of this sort of kind of, you know, dominant force in the Premier League for a sustained period. I think it's a huge achievement. Well, I mean, just again, just looking at the Premier League because our Ted has way out in front in terms of being longer servers manager. Even Regis Lebriss is fourth on that list. I think he's only been in Sonland.

32:22What, three years or two years or something now. This is the third season or something. But, you know, looking at the league again around half the league starting off with new managers and Lord's a club seemed to like appear to be starting again. We're starting to build up a picture now. But have you ever seen a Premier League, you know, season where you just don't know what to expect from so many clubs? No, it's definitely open. I do think you're right. I think, you know, there's no, I thought, come true. You know, be okay. I mean, it's not been a great start. Let's see where they can come back. How have surprised us, isn't it? So I think it's, you know, I'd lead this kind of my team is almost like dark horses because I just think there might be a bit unexpected. I thought they bought well and they started okay, and they'd be honest. So I, I, yeah, I do think it's a very open league. I think, you know, I think fans also want that, don't they? Because we've become, you know, a bit sick of the kind of the big six cartel and, you know, and sort of, we don't want that.

33:23I think there's a bit of an open. There's a bit of the unknown. I think more with Liverpool and the area, I think, I think the rest of the city because city. I've got well established players there and I've got the base. Even though I see Senka by to go early on is difficult, but I think there's a lot open there. I mean, how we united fair because that basic man United last season didn't have you went out of the domestic cup competitions first hurdle. So I think there's a lot of unknown factors. Well, look three games so far on the board, maximum points after wins against Coventry, Valorant Chelsea. You've already said that you think the revolving Arsenal. I mean, how much are they changing? I mean, is it just kind of incremental? Is it bit by bit? Or do you think we're really going to see a different Arsenal as this season progresses? No, I think they aren't slightly changing. I think there's stronger in defence, better in midfield. And I think one of the biggest factors is last season you didn't see Erdogard at his best. And basically, Erdogard has played really well. Erdogard at his best is one of the best midfields in Europe. He's had two years, I think, of kind of injury, stop start, stop start, frustration.

34:34It's such a good player to go. Brilliant. When he plays Arsenal player different way and with Flair, I'm always a huge, have a fan, have a start to season well. No surprise to people that basically have a start to head to Gorecrest because honestly, have a start to type a play. He's cup of tea basically, stylish, he's good. And so I do think that I think it's a natural involvement, I think, as well as perhaps, you know, sort of anything else. Yeah, when you mentioned Ordogard because we went against Napoli as well in midweek in the Champions League to get going there. For a start, I quite like the red shorts by the way, I think that's a quite a good look for Arsenal. But what did you make of the team, Arterta, put out considering, you know, the sandwiched, you know, in between the Chelsea game and sat at an out of the stadium like? Yeah, I think you'll see, I don't, I can't believe that the basic you'll see the same team, you know, three games in a row basically. I thought the changes were very obvious and capable for kind of fury. You know, Gorecrest up front.

35:40The one that surprised me was that Ordogard kept going until the end, you know, because, so I feel as if, you know, you'll probably go back, you know, Rises playing a lot of minutes. It does like, he's tried and trusted Arterta. So I think that basically, I think it was quite instructive, but I would expect kind of a few words to come back. Can White play three games in a row? Yeah, I heard you mentioned that before the game, actually. So, you know, I think that was surprising, but they haven't really got much else. You know, Timbers, you know, back in training, but, you know, I was ever so surprised that, you know, White kind of played as much as he did last night. I thought we'd get sucked off, but probably, you know, probably wanted to do that. But then, you know, he's the sort of player that they've got to be cautious about really. Yeah, well, look to move on to Sunderland. We beat Chelsea in the last year, the season to qualify for the Orgale League.

36:44Do you think, you know, if you look at the two years before that, do you think the Premier League really needed something like that? Because it looks like, you know, looking at the three that have gone up this year, it looks like they're looking at Sunderland and trying to approach it in a bit of a similar way. Yeah, I do. I feel as if it really set a great template. It was a brilliant story. I think that Granite Jacket, you know, at a heartbeat of the team, absolutely fantastic what a season he's had. And it gives everyone hope and it kind of inspires. We went through, didn't we? You're kind of a Premier League where it's three up three down. And no one wants that. It's bad for competition. It's bad for the look of the league, you know, and honestly, it becomes tiresome and boring. And I just think, you know, Sunderland, we were breathed fresh air. The atmosphere at the stadium was like amazing. So I just feel as if, you know, we really needed it. It was a, you know, it was a great thing that happened there. And I think that basically we should sort of celebrate that. I think, you know, having been out of you for so long, I think this is great.

37:44Really. Yeah. Well, a lot of pundits are technically down. Jamie Caragas said we're going to finish bottom because we've got games in midweek. You've already said that it could be a drain on us. You know, how do you see Sunderland just, I mean, how do you see a player now? Do you see Sunderland just doing well to, you know, stay out of trouble this season if we've got loads of extra game? Yeah, a lot. I do actually know you, you know, a couple of Sunderland fans are sort of chat-toons, that's with them. You know, they're a bit disappointed, maybe about sort of perhaps not more signings and kind of, you know, particularly in the front area. I don't know when that's a kind of a fair reflection of kind of, you know, the wider fan base. But, you know, obviously, some really good forward players there, you know, already, but then, you know, I would say it's just that element of the being stretched in the squad. All of a sudden, you know, have a completely different fixture list, more fixtures, more games, which stretches the squad.

38:47You shouldn't underestimate also, I think, players get drained by the trips. They get drained physically, mentally, by the demands of high level football in the week as well. And I feel as if it will, you know, test the squad. I did worry about something. I actually heard that podcast in its entirety to give it some context. I think, you know, Jeremy Carragos, you know, actually kind of, you know, wasn't quite a boo, which was, it sounds really. But, I think it will be a test for something. But I actually thought that might struggle a bit. But actually, you know, you ease these one round by this something, T-Monger, by the results and the perforces they put in. I've probably already been one round to people. Well, just greatly on the manager. What do you make of register press? Because I'm very glad as a sonland fan that he constantly keeps going under the radar. Because when other jobs come up, his name never appears on the list.

39:47But I think just because he doesn't make the headlines, does he? No, he doesn't. No, he doesn't. He's very good, isn't he? You know, he's a really good, really good manager, very sort of tried and trusted. I do think, you know, he was interesting to me because I think, I've spoken to someone who had a player at Sunderland at a time and basically just, you know, when they got promoted. I think that it wasn't quite sure how he would do, how they would do, particularly because of the way that they fell off, you know, in that championship season when they got promoted. Were they kind of already fixated on the on the on the playoffs? I think they probably were. And then basically is so in that defense, but I actually think, you know, he's almost looks more at home in the Premier League for what he's done. Then actually scrapping out in the championship is probably a warning to West down there.

40:51You can't, you know, sort of kind of take it, take it for granted. And I think it is a hell of a scrap and it's sort of kind of a bit of a back. I feel as if he, his biggest quality is kind of being well organized, being sort of, you know, defensively sound. They definitely play to their strengths in attack with a kind of, you know, physical edge. And I feel as if, you know, Sunderland are really, really well organized. They know what they're about, don't they? Basically. You left in no doubt that they're basically what Sunderland are and what their identity is as a team. And I mean that in the most positive and sort of kind of complimentary sense. And they're basically, you know, I think that's a really, really good place to be. And the voices 100% at the heart of that. I did the cup gang at Port Vale, you know, last season. And I just felt as if, you know, yeah, that was the upset. Sorry to mention it, you know, basically. But I just feel as if that was the one thing that basically where the wheels came off last season.

41:59And I think then that that was that was the one dip, wasn't it? To be honest. And I think that was the one sort of game where it revealed to me. I thought the Premier League is everything. You know, basically stay up and be in the Premier League. And basically I thought that was, you know, that was the day when I thought, yeah, yeah. Even they're even in mid disappointment. They're going to be okay and they're going to carry on and finish well. Because it's about establishing yourself in the top flight, isn't it? And if we can do that well within the Europa League this season, then all that. Of course, but look, looking at the game, going off the last game, of course, at the same level between the two sides. Do you think Artet I would have preferred a nice easy home game after a trip to Italy? Yeah, 100%. I do think this is a bit of an unfair one and I ask no, I'll be perfectly honest. I think that it's obviously eight o'clock because you're not allowed, you know, European trip to do this kind of the TNT pick, which at 12.30.

43:06So I think it's been shifted to the evening. I don't think, and this isn't an arsenal complaint. I promise you look basically, I don't think we do enough to help English teams in European competition. What the hell's going on there? Honestly, nonsense, absolute nonsense. Give us the best chance. We always have basically three or four teams, you know, in the latter stages of the Champions League and basically they're full by the wayside. Why is that when we've got the Premier League is so strong? Why? Because we do stupid things like this, you know, basically, French League make it easier for PSG because they want their teams to do well in Europe. You know, a some learn all find it at some point this season, they'll be looking at that schedule. Hopefully if they progress well and be going, do as a favor, you know, what about that away game after this? I'll kind of what about the scheduling after this? And I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous. It's absolutely ridiculous. And yeah, I think it's grossly unfair, really.

44:09And yes, they've done them a favor by putting it back to eight o'clock, but Napa is a long way. I do remember going to do, going to a trip in Europe with Arsenal. I think it was a long time in the near sort of on the Thursday night and then the plague man city away on the Sunday. And they got a two to draw and I thought but blind in a plague well considering their way, you know, the Champions League, it was another opening week. So how to play on that Thursday night? But honestly, the difference in sharpness and sort of freshness between the two teams is ridiculous. You do realise I'm just nodding along a green with you because I'm now in the Europa League. I'd probably argue against it. But it looks something I haven't been Arsenal in the last six attempts at the stadium of light. That was an FA Cup game 5th round tie. Way back, I think that was 2012, I want to say. I think, I think, I'm Richardson and Oxley Chimble and scored an on goal. Last time the Premier League was back in 2009, Darren Bentsco, the only goal at the game. So it's been a while.

45:13I'm not asking for a prediction, John, because we don't do that in a year. But how do you see it going? Do you think Arsenal are just going to want to quiet the crowd as quickly as possible? Yeah, definitely that. I think that, you know, that would be really important. They like to dominate the ball. They like to kind of, you know, really pin things back. They show that against Napoli. I think they're particularly like to do that away from home. You know, they sort of dominated the ball against Asim Belli. They didn't play particularly well actually at times against Belli. But then basically, you know, came away with the one-neil win. But I think that that's exactly what they do. I think it's up to them, some of them to kind of really, you know, be forceful, be on the front foot and sort of, you know, be strong and competitive with Arsenal basically. But that's what Arsenal like to do, you know, basically almost set up a sort of semi-circle around the opposition box and pin them back. It's about getting to find, you know, finding the killer edge and the third and sort of the final pass in the third, you know, final third.

46:14And so I think that's what they would like to do. I think it'll be our game. I think good atmosphere. I think Saturday night under the lights. I think it'd be a cracker. Are you covering it? No, no, I'm not. I'm doing the Manchester Darby the following day. Good stuff. Well, look, I think we're tall for long enough. So I'm going to kept you for longer than we then we meant to. So, so Paul, just let's say that enjoy your weekend. Just thank you very much for your time. Join us always. And I hope later on in the season you potentially join us and get your hat trick matchball and join us again further. Yeah, now I'll be delighted to ask me again. Good. Good stuff. Thanks again, John. Thanks again everyone for listening. Don't forget we'll of course have a immediate reaction after the final whistle with a pod that should drop soon after we'll have all the buildup and reaction on the report website. So look out for all of that as well because we're back every day because we are of course an entirely daily podcast and look out for all of that. But for us, it's by the night.