Can Target Hit the Bullseye Again?

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Welcome to We Fixed it.

You're welcome.

The show where we take over companies, you come along for the ride.

We try to put them back better than we found them.

If you're a giant retailer and your sales are flat, and the narrative around you isn't

what it used to be, what do you do?

You cut prices.

You put money back in people's pockets.

Get that foot traffic back up.

And you stop selling fruit loops, I guess, because that's what everyone wants.

Today we're going to talk about what's going on with Target.

There's a lot happening.

For long-time listeners, you'll remember we fix Target all the way back in season one.

We told them what to do, but they must keep having meetings and making decisions without

us, so we're going to look at this a little differently and try to fix weather cutting

prices, switching up products, and just generating publicity, is enough to bring back shoppers.

Especially those who have expressed dissatisfaction and even anger, earned anger at how Target's

been showing up for a while.

She know, give us the scoop on Target and bring us up to speed.

All right.

So as Aaron just shared, we're talking about Target today, which is your favorite place

to go in for a toothpaste and then come up with an entirely new wardrobe, maybe a candle

or a couple of little pillows, and you don't even realize what's happening, but they've

just announced price cuts on more than 3,000 items, everything from maybe essentials to

pantry staples and everything else in between.

And as shoppers continue to feel the pinch with rivals like Walmart and Costco and Amazon,

as it eats away at their market share, these cuts are real and they have about 5 to 25 percent

off across the board on these items that they're rolling into spring as part of a really

big push under new leadership to get more people back into the door.

But there's another price on the table that doesn't exactly show up on the shelf.

And that's the cost of broken trust, which is what we want to explore a little bit more

today.

As Aaron shared, over the last couple of years, Target has quietly scaled back its diversity

equity and inclusion commitments.

They fold back on pride merchandise and after a lot of backlash, there has been some boy

cuts around Target.

So some boycott leaders are saying it's over.

Others are saying they haven't really changed or fixed what they've broken.

So today we're asking, there's a few dollars saved, actually walk back and change how

we feel about the moving forward or did they fix the kind of promises that they've broken.

And so does these price cuts and discounts make up for it?

And so we'd love to turn to you too, because as President Canadian, we no longer have

Target for reasons we shared in season one, but you both are on the ground.

You will shop at Target, so we'd love to get your perspective on this.

Well, I will say I used to be a very loyal Target shopper, and after the whole fiasco with

them stopping their DEI initiatives, I have been not shopping at Target, and I haven't

shop there since that whole thing has happened.

And I think what's amazing about that for me, personally, is I was a Target red card

loyalist.

Right.

I went to Target all the time.

I followed the social media accounts of when you go to Target for shampoo and you come

up out with $500 worth of stuff.

So I always loved Target.

I've always said that if there was only one store in the whole world, what would it be?

For me, it would be Target at that time.

Now I haven't even, I haven't stepped foot in a Target for over a year, which is to

make me very crazy.

They sent me a notice, said your credit card is going to be shut down for inactivity, and

I said, fine, shut down.

And so that's my stance, really, I took a hard stance there, and then over time, I was

able to find other places that I could shop, that I could get things, and save a lot of

money, too, because I wasn't buying frivolous things that I didn't need.

But I think more importantly, you've kind of brought up their new initiative around

cutting prices on 3,000 on-trend, spraying items across their entire inventory of goods.

These cuts sit on top of thousands of items already reduced in 2025, and they're really

focused on trying to get into more of the value proposition space.

Their full-year net sales were down by 1.7%, so that's how almost $100 billion, and it's

really driven by a 2.6% drop in comparable sales, even as their gross margin might have

improved, their operating margin reached 4.8.

So all of this commentary really talks about earnings outperformance, has come from margin

expansion.

So less shrink, lower supply chain costs, more ads, membership revenue, but their store

traffic transactions have been really under pressure since these initiatives have started.

So I do think we have to talk about them hand in hand, but I also think that what they're

trying to do is really kind of appeal to the masses today, consumers today, who are feeling

the pressures economically.

And you know, the thing about Target is it's always kind of focused on curation and being

like the cool place to shop, not on the most cost effective, to be honest.

And with their partnerships with like Joanna Gaines and all the designers that are doing

like these pop-ups for fashion and things like that, they really weren't focused on like

I would say like keeping it cost efficient, so to speak at prices down low, where I

think that's the place where if they're going into that space, they need to understand

that their competitors like Walmart don't even have to really do anything because that's

what they're already known for and what they've been doing all along.

So these like $3,000, it feels a little bit like they're trying to not pull a fast one

on us, but pull it, go into this space when who are you really going to be Target?

Like that's what I'd like to know, like who are you going to be when you, you know,

when it all comes down to it?

You know, because Walmart really has always been doing that.

They're constantly doing this rollback campaign and you see the prices going back and forth.

They do basket price studies across for consumers and I know a lot of consumers look at that

and they'll say similar, you know, all these same brand type items across the United States.

What is a basket cost at Walmart?

What does it cost at, you know, Publix?

What does it cost at Target?

And you're looking at all of those across the board and Walmart is kind of the mental default

of cheapest cart.

So strategically they're using their own scale, their reputation, their higher margin businesses

to play offense on pricing, where it feels a little bit like Target might be playing

defense or trying to kind of hit something because they think it's going to get them what

they need to in terms of those margin differences.

So I think that's a lot of speaking here and it's not giving a lot of answers in terms

of what they should be doing, but I think that when you think about all of those things,

there's so many components and she knows so you've kind of opened up the Pandora's box

for Target.

So I think besides talking about the DEI initiative, we really need to talk about like what

are they trying to achieve by this because are they trying to become a more affordable

place to shop versus a curated experiences that they've provided in the past?

You're right, Melissa.

Typically, a bold move like that, we're slashing prices on 3,000 items.

That would be number one celebrated by consumers.

And number two, hello marketing that would cause an escalated price wars campaign and

you'd see it ripple effect across retail, which we might see, but like you're saying,

Melissa, Walmart, and there's other Costco and other solutions that consumers have trained

themselves into in the interim, especially those that have had a beef whip tart.

You never get for any number of the reasons that we've mentioned and said you're not for

me and you've shown me you're not for me, you've publicly said you're not for me anymore.

I'm going to go somewhere else.

You're not alone and now we've seen that ripple effect happen.

So the fact that they've said, okay, well now we're going to cut some prices, we're not

seeing that celebration that you'd expect to see from a move like that and some leaders

are saying, well, okay, that's a good move, the boycott, we'll we'll we'll back down

on the boycott.

It's over.

And some are saying, wait a second, what's just what's happening?

You know, there's a smoke, smoke and mirrors, what are you trying to do here?

And we're in the middle of this.

Yeah.

I think that also operationally, I think, you know, we've talked about when you have a

change like this price change, for example, if you haven't really thought out the strategy

of how you're going to make it deliver on that promise, so though I'm cutting prices

on 3000 items, you know, there's a lot of work that needs to be done, right?

If you're cutting prices, you've got to retag things, you have to change the shelf tags

and how it's being promoted on, hopefully there's a story around what's being, you know,

discounted.

If you're, you know, going across 3000 seems like just a lot, to be honest, the app needs

to be changed.

The point of sale systems need to have all of the updates in it.

You know, one of the things I used to love about Target is going and scanning the barcode

yourself, so you could see the price, you know, in store.

And so if those are mismatched, that's going to be a problem and it's going to feel gimmicky,

it's going to feel not authentic, like we're really care about the prices.

Like I said, I used to follow a lot of different target accounts.

And there was one where people would go in and they would show like, and this is pre

DEI backlash was target had problems getting the prices right.

So you'd have like four pairs of jeans, all the same, same brand.

And one would be discounted, the other one would be discounted differently.

And then another one would have full price on it.

And then the shelf would say something else.

So what is the price, right?

Of course, you're going to take the one that's so cheap is hopefully to the front.

But like, what if it's not your right size, right?

But it's the same jeans across the board.

So that's the kind of thing that doesn't inherently derive customers loyalty and trust

of the whole process.

So, you know, again, I wish this would have been more thought out, you know, in terms of

the customer and saying, these are the top 3,000 items that are sold in March.

So this is where we're going to, you know, so, you know, little leprechauns everywhere.

Whatever they want to do to make it like feel like you're in part of the decision making,

because right now I feel like it doesn't feel like who is making the decisions.

So that's why we need to have these conversations because I'm grounded in the marketing side

of it.

Okay.

So 3,000 skews discounted.

That's a marketing play.

Let's see if figure out how to bring the audience back, you know, the consumers back.

You're grounded in operations and you're saying, you know, this is going to be operational

nightmare and it's going to impact the customer experience and they're, you know, they're

trying to do something to win back.

And if customers leave with a, with in there's complexity to it and they have a less than

stellar experience, they're just going to say, well, why did I even try target again?

And then she knew you're grounded in the, the people side of the equation.

So talk more about that way.

You know, what's out?

Like, what's the whole impact on all sides with the people involved?

And you know, I want to talk people in two forms, right?

The people who are buying, right?

The molasses that they've lost, the loyalist.

And you know, what's interesting to you brought up a really important question.

The list is like, this feels very gimmicky.

This is great.

But you broken trust with us.

And so, and really appreciative that we have, you know, this, you know, seeming discount

on important items, right?

They can flip that out whenever they want to.

But when will that ball drop?

Is it, okay, once we shop enough and then this just goes away, are you saying forever?

This is kind of your standard to help with the market.

Like, what is the messaging around this?

Because as quick as it came, it can easily go.

And that has been target problem is they swoop in and say we're going to do something.

As a brand, whether it's standing on the DEI front, you know, when it comes to, you know,

we talked about in another episode, having theft monitors and people feeling uncomfortable

shopping in different places.

Like what are, who is your audience here and sticking to that?

Because if you're going to be the value proposition, that's, that's Walmart.

We know that, right?

And Walmart has steadily done that.

That's how they built their brand.

Target unfortunately has become incredibly wish-washy.

And so I appreciate this discount.

That can go away tomorrow.

And again, to your point, Melissa, going back to the actual operation side, if this isn't,

you know, seamless, is this, if I'm not able to scan and the prices aren't consistent

across all store and purchase experiences, this is null.

It's null and void and the purpose of this for target, although they think this is going

to bring people back.

It's actually going to detract people because it's going to make us feel less trustworthy

of yourself.

So I think, you know, the first solve for target is figuring out what they want to be.

And if this is their new standard, great.

Let's do more.

Let's do more.

I don't want to see 3000.

I want you to build the story and let us gain your trust and then have that consistently

show up because they've lost trust over time.

They need to build that back up.

So that's the people side on, you know, the customers.

Then there's the people side of everyone that's working there, right?

As you mentioned, a logistical nightmare.

Someone's cell was being working overtime, 60 plus hours, they just to get these skews

together.

You know, everyone that's on an inventory team, having to do that.

What is your messaging to that?

Again, as employees, you're feeling this whiplash, right?

Stores have been targeted.

There's been a loss.

There's been cuts in hours because there's not as much shopping happening.

So, you know, the employees have been taking that head.

So what is your message to employees saying, okay, yes, we've got to cut your hours.

Job civility is a little bit shaky here, but now we need you to do more.

We need you to work triple double shifts to get this out.

We might take this away, but this is a lot of work.

You're going to have to put in the fun end to help us get to our perceived goal.

And I think it's going to be imperative for Target as a brand and as a company to have

their employees rally around this mission.

And we can't do that without the brand's stories.

So Aaron, I want to like pivot to you because we all are all confused.

We're all whiplash.

And how would you tell Target to like, unwhiplash us if that's a real word?

Yeah.

And from the employee perspective, you know, if consumers are celebrating and we're all

high-fiving in the streets and saying Target did it, then as an employee, you feel that.

You feel that in the atmosphere and you just get behind it and you say, all right, we're

going in the right direction where I'm going to work the double shift.

And I'm going to, you know, I'm going to sacrifice some of my personal time and I'm on board

with this.

You know, you can just, companies that are on, on fire, you can just feel it in the atmosphere

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Oh, and I said leaders.

This is one of the things that I always share with leaders that are up and coming that

work with me, other, you know, and with the C-suite.

Is the connection to the mission and the overarching goals Chino and Aaron is so important

and understanding how each of these people, the people that are the inventory stalkers

overnight, the people that are cashiers, the people working in the pharmacy, the people

that are, you know, manning the fitting rooms.

You know, how are they adding value to the mission of target?

That's got to be there.

And I think, Chino and Aaron, that's what's missing right now is like when we say, what's

the soul of target?

Like, they've had an opportunity where they've had a pretty significant, you know, trust-broken

situation with the DEI.

You could see competitors who have leaned in to them breaking that trust.

So Costco is a perfect example.

Costco said, all you target people come on over.

We're going to, we may not have all hundred things, but like, trust me, you're going to

come in here for milk and leave with a couch.

So just, just come on over and they have really leaned into what they know really mattered

to the customers at target, which was DEI, right?

So they double downed.

And now they're kind of coming out of this economy where there's been a lot of uncertainty

and there's been so much stuff going on where people are like, I trust them.

I trust that they're going to fight for me.

I mean, right now they're fighting to get tariff money rebates back, you know, all those

kinds of things.

And so they have kind of a soul and it feels like target lost their soul.

And I really feel, Chino and Aaron, that like, I like this idea of the discounting, the

three, of course, everybody wants, we all need it during, we have inflation fatigue,

you know, we all need it.

But I would have loved it to be aligned, Aaron, with like a rebrand and a remarketing

and said, you know, and even something that said, we heard you, we understand.

This is our position is that we actually kind of were allies to too many things.

And so we lost kind of our place in line, right?

And so what we're doing is we're pairing it down, but we're definitely focused on bringing

you the most diverse, the most, you know, whatever, whatever, whatever.

And even showcasing that in their stores, in the way that their store, you know, like,

they can't like have target be the same target and then discount everything and think that

like, we're all going to forget what they, what they did to us.

Right.

Yeah, it wasn't enough or what we've seen so far isn't enough.

Right.

So they did enough to create a short term stimulus, right?

Which is going to work for a little while and the stock price will probably go up and

people foot traffic will be up and they'll point to those metrics and say, we, you know,

we did something substantial.

It's, it's really not, you know, it, if they take something that's $7 and they cut it

by, you know, the 15% or whatever, that, okay, that's a, that's a consumer win.

They didn't cut it to 250 where you're like, all right, I'm going to sell my soul over

the $7 product now I can get it for 250 fine.

You know, my morals will be compromised a little bit and I'm going to shop it target.

You know, people do that.

If they shop it, name the, name the provider of your choice, even if they're not, you

know, fully on board with everything they stand for and they say, yeah, but, you know,

I buy this there because they're the only ones that have it and those types of things.

So, no, it wasn't, you know, it wasn't a deep discount.

They didn't rebrand themselves as a friendlier company.

They didn't rebrand themselves as an always on discounter.

They just kind of put something out there and they can call it a campaign.

They could say, oh, good.

I'm glad you took advantage of that seasonality, the, the temporary price cuts.

Now we're back to target and slowly, you know, prices go up and, and then they're back

to where they were, but they, they got what they wanted.

They want to, they got the market signaling they wanted that, um, look, we won back trust.

We won back foot traffic.

And what I find interesting is they threw in the, the serial, you know, the, the general

mills and we're going to take certain, certain cereals off and you can't have them here anymore.

We're facing those at the same time, which is really confusing.

So, we can throw that into the mix too, but I don't know, you know, of course, it's better

to be healthier, but I don't know who, who was pushing for that to be,

simultaneously, you know, intertwined with that, with the messaging that's going out

from target right now.

It doesn't make sense at all.

And then what's the other part to you?

We talk about seasonality about this again, going back to the trusts, right?

This can just be a season of, hey, we, we only want you to inflate the market share of

the numbers.

And that's what, that's what's happening.

It would have been more impactful if they came and said, we're keeping this standard

for a year, two years, three years, five because again, we've seen the market go up and

down.

We've also had many conversations on the podcast about how many, how many will try to inflate

and end up at the end of the day, you know, dissolving their business, you know, going

all the way back to like party city days, I think it was like our second episode, right?

And you know, it might be a case of too little too late for target.

And so the point of this podcast is to get ahead of it.

And I think what they need to recognize is, sure, this might push your numbers for

a second, but how do you stay consistent?

How do you bring people back when you've lost the Melissa's, your loyalist and who have

now found different consumer behaviors, found different stores to go to you.

Again, Costco being the big one, right?

Where I do think that, yeah, sure, we have a discount for who knows how long I'm still

going to go to Costco because I can get everything else there at a, you know, at a bulk

price, or I will always just stay at Walmart because it's still a little bit cheaper.

Even then, right?

Like Walmart has the power to, you know, market share and say, okay, well, that's not

really going to do much for you because anyone that's looking for that value ad who's

really looking at those numbers, they're still going to go to Walmart because great, what

if there's something that's, you know, number three thousand and one that it's something

that I need that's not a part of this, right?

You have not discounted your entire store and said, hey, we're going to do this for the

next X amount of time.

They can't do that.

That's not what they're known for.

And so, unfortunately, for them, this was a miss in terms of a campaign.

And I think, Aaron, you said, we need to look at this as a campaign versus a long-term

strategy where their long-term strategy is needing to figure out what their messaging

is and how they can buy back that trust.

Yeah, I think they risk being caught between being that value player, everyday value player,

which is what Walmart is, the dollar stores are, those kinds of things and premium luxury

elite experience.

And so they're going to be stuck in the middle and no longer are they going to be seen

as the clear leader in fund, design forward, partnerships with cool fashion, up-and-coming

fashion designers, and really kind of keeping it affordable.

So that's been lost somewhere in the mix.

And I think their leadership is clearly leaning on the financial aspects and the financial

levers to get them to profitability.

But that is not to your point, you know, that's not a great, long-term strategy.

They also treated the boycott of target and as kind of like a PR incident, thinking it

would just go away.

And I think that's what they're saying today.

Oh, it's done.

We're done with it.

We're done with the boycott.

You don't get to tell us when we're done with the boycott.

You know, we're not done.

We're not done because you haven't done anything to help us.

So really, I think they've got to make some serious steps, both in finding out what is

their mission and what do they want to be in the future.

Do they care about the people they've lost?

Maybe they don't, to be honest, I don't know.

But they need to re-anchor the brand on a clear guest or consumer who they know and

what segment is that and can they recommit publicly.

And really, I think that's one of the things that we were saying is that it's great that

you're going to cut these prices, but those prices relate to me how, right?

So tell the narrative, like control it, like pick the reasons why you pick those 3,000.

Be able to like have the insiders who might still be part of the red circle on not anymore,

but you know, would say like, I get this from crovers.

You bought these five things in the last month.

These four things are on, have coupon, digital coupons and you would save, you know, $20,

right?

That's kind of the kind of thing that like they should look at, you know, what have consumers

been buying and design those price cuts around a member centric experience is in my opinion.

And then try to like slowly pull in all of those people that have left and think about

why they left as well as what may target special, right?

Because I think that they're getting caught in like, like do you see what I'm saying by

saying they're kind of getting caught in the middle space?

Absolutely.

This is what happened in Canada, right?

They tried to come in Canada and they wrote this middle ground.

We did not know.

We did have had no introduction.

We knew the red circle from the commercials, watching anything in the US, right?

But we, as Canadians, did not understand their brand and they came and failed within a

year.

They packed up and left Canada.

And so again, I see the same trajectory because now they're in this weird middle space

too.

The US is where they started.

This is where they, this is what they know.

And so to lose this now, if they don't get ahead of it, I think they're in for trouble.

But you actually had me think of an incredible idea, Melissa, because, you know, again, with

this whole PR, you know, Blake Hots are over trying to dictate that to the people who are

boy counting doesn't work.

And I think what a better campaign would have been for them.

So that they can do, again, target if you're listening.

This is a really great idea.

Reach out to those people and sit down and maybe have a focus here.

Maybe you have an ads talking to those people and saying, what do you need this count on?

Life is expensive.

Inflation is hard.

We made a mistake.

Here's the, I'm sorry.

Why don't you pick this 3,000 again?

Of course, you can go through the data, right?

And we can figure out what people are, you know, what makes sense in the margins.

But that's not a story, you know, I think having a better story about how you're communicating

to the people you lost is more important.

How do you build by that trust and say, listen, we never discount X product.

We know that.

It's one of the things.

But if everyone has voted, maybe you have it as like open votes, everyone download

the app and you vote and, you know, at the end of the month, we took the 3,000 based

on what you're voting again, trying to rebuild that trust.

If they can't do that, it doesn't matter what their brand kind of positioning is because

we don't believe what you have to say.

And I think that will be the first step into helping them.

And again, they need to do it in tandem, but you can't do one without the other when it

comes to rebuilding a brand, but also rebuilding that trust.

So that's kind of, I think, one of my ideas on how to solve that.

Yeah.

Totally.

Yeah.

That, you know, instead of saying, we're going to ban certain products, including products

you like, you know, we haven't checked with you.

Just make sure that you're on board with this.

They could be also, you know, while they're focus grouping, which I love, they could be

saying, look, in their brand campaign or their messaging campaign and all, they're, well,

maybe it's a full rebrand.

We'll talk about that.

But we're curating your shopping experience to create better habits, healthier habits.

And we're making, and we have the affordability aspect of it too.

So it's, you know, we'll take us to our fix, but a good play might be, here's what $20

will get you a target now.

There's a healthier version of fruit lips in there if there, if my fruit lips are gone

tomorrow or my lucky charms, what do you have for me and what's it going to cost me?

And, you know, how far can $20 go at target?

Because the last time I remember going there, $20 didn't get very far.

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Yeah.

And I love that because that kind of gets to my point around, you know, this is a lot

of what we try to do in operations, as well as in marketing.

You try to understand your customer segmentation, the customer journey over arching, and really

understanding the consumers and saying, look, this is for, you know, single, you know,

young boy, whatever, like person, you know, Chino, you know, is, you know, that's the

person that needs this in their cart.

And like I love Aaron, like what can $25 buy you a target, right?

And it's not just one shampoo is, you know, it's shampoo.

It's a stofers mac and cheese.

It's a kombucha, whatever it might be, right?

And then you, you kind of like start getting back into those narratives around what it meant

to go to target, which was really like, it was, it wasn't just going into like a dollar

store, right?

It was felt like a more of an experience.

And so I think again, you know, cheaper isn't necessarily better in a lot of consumers

minds these days.

And so I think that we could even, you know, talk about what changes target has to make

to keep up with the tastes of its, of its loyal customers, right?

And so to do that, we're not going to have every single serial available to you, right?

We're going to have a curated target marketplace because we also have furniture at target.

You know, most king super, you know, most cruggers don't have furniture besides made

me a few plastic wangiers, right?

So we're going to have all of these different types of, and we're going to have the best

and most affordable, but those experiences that bring you joy.

So that's when we bring in the Joanna Gaines, right, to have this curated, you know, how

your bedroom could look or your college dorm room could look, right?

Then you have the curated marketplace and you say, look, we want to have healthy,

healthy choices.

We want to have the most popular choices.

And so these are the top 10 popular cereals across America.

And those don't include fruit loops anymore, right?

But we got cereals, we got, you know, we got rice crisps, we got frosty flakes, whatever

they might be.

I do think that again, I still am getting it to the heart of it is that they haven't said

who they are anymore.

And again, I don't want to, like, keep emoning the whole DEI initiative and boycott, but

there are really no winners or losers in that, right?

It's not there's a winner here and there's a, you know, a winner here.

Now, it's really about what have we learned from that?

And that's the thing that we haven't heard from them, right?

Like, what have we learned from that?

I can tell you what I've learned as a consumer, I've learned, I don't need target.

I thought I would die without target, be honest.

I love, I mean, I love target.

I used to.

So, that's what I learned, which was really kind of weird to think, you know what?

You can get shampoo at other places, you know, and you don't have, you know, you can get

throw pillows at other places.

And so that was really an interesting thing for me, somebody who used to go there weekly.

And so, I think like, I've learned that I can do without, but what has target learned

about that whole situation?

What have they learned about their customers and their voices?

I mean, they have lost foot traffic, maybe they, their big superstores need to be smaller,

right?

You know, I don't know.

But the challenge that they're in, they have many challenges, but let's give them a

marketing challenge is the target symbol, you know, it's a target, it's a red target

with a dot in the middle.

That's so open ended, that's anything, you know, it could be anything, it, they're not

called discount mark, sorry, if that's your trademark, they're not called a shop for

less, they're not called by everything, we have everything under the sun here, they're

called target.

And that means you can do anything you want with that.

So, the marketing challenge is the minute they start defining, we are this and we're

not that, they lose people because anyone who wanted them to be that, pin them down

and say, well, I thought you were that, you know, in my mind and my perception, you were,

but now you're telling me you're not, okay, well, now target as a definition and it's

getting narrower and narrower and that's not for me.

So it's, it's, it's to their advantage to leave what target is big.

I see what you say there.

I think I understand that, but I also, like my point, again, about their, not being

a winner in the whole boycott situation is truly that Aaron because there is no winner.

So like even if they were to say, our soul and mission, this is our vision and mission,

there's always going to be people that aren't happy.

I would just for them to be able to kind of put something down as that would help all

of us understand, like what have, you learn from this, where are we going for, how are

we moving forward?

And if the 3000 discounted items is the way we're moving forward and we're not going to

talk about it, okay, but that doesn't entiped me to come shop again.

I don't know.

And I think that's the point too.

So I agree, like there's two things, wait, you're always going to isolate some part

of the market, right?

Whether you define it, which is what you're sharing there, Aaron.

I hear your point too, Melissa, because it's the learning aspect.

I don't think it does necessarily learning.

It's, how can you work with us?

Like, is there a way for us to negotiate and get out of the table?

You need us to come back at the end of the day.

So what I would appreciate having, you know, and I'm speaking as you, you know,

as someone who used to be a loyalist, I'm not, I'm Canadian, I don't have target,

but whoever used to be a loyalist, I think asking them, what would be your value

problem?

Why can't we do a focus group?

Why can't we have you vote on what the products are?

Maybe you, yes, you do target.

And it's only the 10, you know, cereals that are the most popular.

And, you know, here's two that are brand new, really cool brands that you might

not have heard of.

That's at a discount because as we know, healthier foods are more expensive.

It's really hard, you know, health is important, particularly as

inflation goes up, you know, you tend to buy not the healthier things, X, Y,

and Z push people to do better and say, you know what, our stance is, we

want to make sure we're supporting.

Maybe we never talk about this piece.

Maybe we never ever really get there.

But what I can say to you as a brand is because I don't want to isolate

everything else.

And again, what I want to shout there, I don't know.

But why don't you ask the people what they need and provide that?

And if it is a discount for a certain time, that's not going to work.

We need this, we need to trust you.

So whether it's doing your brand over time, you need to tell us what this is

about.

Need to give us the why your teams need to have a why because I, again, Erin,

I know most of you not really stepped foot in a target.

Erin, I don't know if you have, what is the energy when you walk it?

Is it the same, you know, target experience you used to have or are people

walking around who are working there does not really engage where you feel

like, ah, whatever, I don't want the care to be here.

I can get actually a little bit more, but for a better experience.

Right.

Well, and yeah, and as I said earlier, if, if you feel the negativity from the

outside as an employee, you can't help that.

You can't help that internalize that, you know, like you feel it too.

And then you're, you know, like you said, you walk around the

satisfied or a consumer say, a customer says something to you and you,

you kind of agree with them.

So they're in a tough position to be the ambassadors of target by wearing the shirt.

And the best thing you can do is, is do the training and talk to your

employees, the same as you talked to the, you know, before you talked to the

outside and say, here's what, let's define what we're all about.

And I see an on play in both ways, because I said,

the minute you start defining, you're going to lose people.

But look, they, they have a, they're sitting in an opportunity

to restate, even play into the open-ended nature of it.

Target work for everybody.

I think we forgot about that a little bit.

I think we publicly messed up a little bit.

Let's rephrase it.

Or it's restate, etc.

Everyone knows we are for everybody.

Right?

Come find yourself here.

And what they did is cut prices, but in the messaging and the narrative,

what they're saying a little bit, but not enough is we, you know, we feel,

we know consumers are feeling the pinch.

We know we've let you down in a number of different ways.

One thing we're going to be able to do, you know, we can't restore all of it right now today.

We can make, we can start making changes in that direction.

One thing we can do is start to eliminate some of that fatigue

and not just, not just cut prices, but help you make better choices, too.

And be the place for that.

So cutting prices was a surface level.

Again, they're going to see metrics.

They're going to see charts go up.

They're going to celebrate it.

They're going to say we did it.

You know, it'll cool down over time if nothing substantial actually happens.

But if it's a place where, again, not just this surface level 10% off,

whoa, thank you, Target.

It's now we, you know, let's reframe.

We're open ended.

We live in your imagination.

We're for everybody.

And we're not only going to cut prices.

We're going to have better choices at prices that the everyday consumer can afford

and appreciate and thank us for.

And to piggyback on that, I would say take those operational cost-effective wins

and transform those into shopper-visible magic, so to speak, right?

And so take some of those savings and invest in your team

that is there at the local level so that they can have those conversations

with shoppers who might be like, you know, I'm not really sure about, you know,

shopping here again and that they need to be able to understand

how to have those conversations authentically.

You know, reinvest in the staff reinvest in, you know, the the cleanliness,

merchandising moments and experiences, like maybe they need to do like a whole, you know,

redo of how they actually lay out the store, right?

Maybe they're looking at their inventory, like Aaron said, like where they have,

here are some smart choices. So at the end of each aisle, they'll have like, this is, you know,

for, you know, these are some smart choices for you for breakfast.

These are some smart choices for late-night snacking, right?

Those kinds of things. And really kind of, you know, showcase that they're looking for solutions

and new solutions and fixing some things behind the scenes so that it's easier for the customer

to come back, right? Or the customers who are who have still been going there to still go there.

You know, I think again, designing those price cuts, it feels more member-centric,

unless target-centric, right? You know, so that we understand where they're coming from is also

going to be very helpful because like we said, cheaper is not always better.

And that was one of the things about shopping at Target. I knew I could probably get that cheaper

at Walmart down the street, but I liked Target. I actually liked going in there. I liked that they

had a lot of different things. And I loved how they would have these, you know, cool partnership

displays. And I loved, you know, the seasonality displays, right? Like I loved when it was back

to school time. They had everything in the right, you know, in one section. And it was very easy.

They had everything printed out for all the schools and locally. So, you know, you could just grab

a box and already had everything in it, right? But those are the things that I think, you know,

people are willing to pay a little bit more for that kind of curated experience. And I'm not

saying a lot more. I mean, you know, we all know Target is not Nordstrom, okay? But again,

I feel like there's that component that Target really should focus on more than price cutting.

Is that that's why people went there. They love, you know, they're loyal. They, you know, it's

it's like, okay, I really want to go there, right? So I feel like they need to turn that

and turn those operational wins that they've had or they're going to have with some of these

price cuts into investing into their team, into their stores, into that experience so that

people will come back. And, you know, like the statement doesn't have to be, you know, just

yeah, we made a mistake. I don't think they have to say that. I think what they have to say is

we recognize that what our loyal, you know, shoppers are missing are, you know, these, you know,

partnerships with so and so or whatever, right? You know, I think that they've just been quiet

about it and just it's not going to go away. It's not. It's not. And I think, you know, going back

to what you're sharing, it's like, you know, targeting for Target, period experience,

which means more experiential activations at your store, right? Have your store employees

bring people back in, right? So you have to reengage. So again, reinvesting into your team

will be helpful, right? Reinvesting into figuring out what your brand is and investing and speaking

to the people you've lost and asking them, what do they need? You made a mistake, you know, for

some people who they'll never go back, right? I remember, you know, I had an aunt to Canadian

tire. It was a thing. They made one mistake on her tire. She's very special. She'll never

step foot into Canadian tire. I love Canadian tire. Totally different on the Canadian side. But

you'll have people who will never go back to Target. And that's okay. But there's a whole

method of people that are open to hearing and saying, you know, maybe we don't want to cancel

you forever. But I need to know that you figured something out, or you're doing something for me,

that you completely pulled back. Like, what are you doing for me? And for me to come back. And

if you're not going to be the value problem, which you are not, not yet, maybe in 10, 20 years,

where you have a brand presence like Walmart that is known for that, that's great. But you're never

going to compete with Walmart against value. So that's not it. Don't start going down that pathway.

Little campaigns like this is fine, but it's not going to work. You need to go back to the experience.

That's what Target was about. It was creating things, educating you as a consumer on new brands

that you made, not have heard of, curating the list so that it's not a thousand things. It's,

it's 10. And again, speaking to your loyalists, whomever that is today, and saying, what do you

need from us? And that will be your starting point. And if you can't do that, unfortunately,

I think Target, US, will mirror what has happened in Canada. And you know, we're,

there's no presence here. You took a year and you guys ran out of here. So we don't want

right? I don't think that they want that. I want to ask you, Aaron, about that because

Chino brings up some really good points here. And how is it that the target execs haven't learned

some lessons from the failures in Canada, came art, like other, you know, what are they thinking,

like just cutting costs is going to do them any good? I mean, look at dollar stores are going down,

right? You know, they're only charging a dollar and people are, and they're, they're,

they're going out of business. So why is it that they aren't learning and looking at the competitive

ecosystem and thinking, okay, we've got to shift. We've got to do some things differently.

And so how do we either scale back or grow here or, you know, market differently? It just seems

really strange to me that like there's so many of these examples out there that are in their

atmosphere, kind of their orbit may not directly relate to them, but you've seen just like,

and then cancel culture so deep, you know, you've seen one bed add and, you know, you're in trouble,

right? So what if you're out there of what they could possibly be thinking and why they aren't really

kind of, or are they? I mean, you have to wonder, right? It's because we were two to three years

into this, right? It's been, or maybe more, it's been a while. So to come up with a response,

you know, a tactical response, if you waited that long, the expectation is it's going to be big.

It's going to be a full strategic reset. There's maybe a rebrand, like we said.

You have to wonder if they're just spin in maintenance mode or at the exact, sorry,

exact, but if you're just so well compensated that you're above it all and you, you know,

you're immune to what's happening at the, at the store level, I hope that's not the case. I

hope they've been digging in and, you know, doing some really, really serious soul searching over

the past few years. And this is the tip of what we're, we're going to be seeing rolling out.

But no, there, there is a more so to your point, like, there's, there's a disconnect.

And it's, and it's a disappointment to, you know, with three years, that's, that's what you

chose to do. You know, it's like when you hear about a movie that's been in development forever.

And then it comes out and you're like, wait, that took you that long to make that terrible movie.

And I'm not saying it's terrible. It's just not, it's, it's a nonstarter so far.

At least, you know, for the things that really matter.

It's very interesting to me because this, this has been the wonderful thing about the consistency

of this podcast is that we look for specific areas and opportunities to fix. Yeah.

And yet it feels like it doesn't matter what genre, what business, what company, they kind,

it all kind of comes back to these types of things where it's active listening, understanding

your consumer base, you know, understanding the complexity in operations, people, culture,

brand, marketing, right? And really that's, it feels like, again, I want to say going back to our

CEOs that fail upwards. Like, I do believe there's been some changes at Target and there's some

been some new people that have come in from the, at the exact level. But is it just like musical

chairs like are not, are not they looking at what's going on and saying, oh, maybe we should try

something different. I mean, worse, we want to, you know, make it the most affordable. But like,

we're just going to cut prices and be gimmicky that way and just say that and not have it be,

like I said, something that's surrounding a narrative that is a really cool, like we've seen

brand launches, Aaron, you've been involved in them. Like that are really fun and just take off.

I mean, we talk about the Super Bowl ads, right? You know, all of these kinds of things like,

there's a way to make investments that can really rocket ship you. So what is the problem here?

I feel like Target is trying to go the opposite direction and they're like following,

she know my favorite word, they're following a playbook that's going to make them obsolete.

Like they, they need a new playbook. They need a new playbook. Yeah, that's our, that's our job.

They're not here. We get to tell them, it's our show. We get to tell them what to do.

So we're going to fix this. It's, it's what we have to.

All right, here's what you're going to do. You're not going to celebrate that the boy cuts over

because we haven't, not all of us have decided that it's over. So it's over when, when the public

says it's over, when I'm not talking about fringe, you know, activists are, have their own personal

agenda and their party of one. Like there's always going to be dissenters, right? But when

unilaterally consumers and those that have a valid point to make say, Target, you're off the

hook, then it's over, but don't call it over yet. And you're in a position to own this narrative.

So the less you say and the more you stick to a talking point, the more people are going to talk

about you and you're going to lose control of that. And I think we're a long way away. I,

you know, I haven't looked at their books today, but I think we're a long way away from no more

targets than ever anywhere that's going to be that cat, you know, catastrophic things that haven't

happened yet. But are you, is there a slippery slope and a precipice? Yeah, we're seeing,

we're seeing some things, you know, eroding, own this narrative, take this moment and start

rebuilding, you know, let's, let's think about the people involved. Um, you know, and we'll

say we've talked about a lot about the employees. I think that's the heart of it. You know, you

have a moment to rebuild the company around your employees. Right. And think about can they afford

your products? You know, this is, think about them as, as proxies for the rest of us. Do they,

could, or do they walk around happy? Do they look, do they make discoveries in the store,

like the target lady on SNL? And, you know, I was like, oh, I didn't know they sell this here.

I'm going to get this for myself, you know, and we're here in the middle of like a hostage

negotiation with the, with the, with the boycott. It would be people that have been boycotting you,

where there's the doors open to crack. So you know, look at your employees and your people and

and look at who, who isn't represented here? And how do we adjust our hiring practices or maybe

go back to some of the ways we used to do this? And not make it a political statement. Just make

sure your people are representative of your communities and who shops at your store and start

to rebuild your identity around the people. That's, that makes a lot of sense, right? While you're

doing that, if you're going to cut prices, do it. Well, you know, people will appreciate it.

If you're going to cut products and say they're banned now, do it in a way that people also

appreciate. So instead of saying, well, you're not going to get this here anymore. Well, what,

what am I going to get? You know, what are the alternatives? Are they affordable alternatives?

Are they things that you can trade me into liking? Are you, can you curate experiences around

those discoveries and make sure that I have, operationally, it's not a nightmare because I can't

find what I bought last week. It's, it's a natural progression to something else that, well, this

is even better and it costs the same or it's affordable. I'm on board, you know. Right. And then,

you just do that stuff. Yeah. Melissa, do we, do we fix it again for Target? I think we did. I think,

you know, I, I think there's some very key things in there that you talked about Aaron. I think,

first of all, I would tell them to re-anchor their brand. Their brand was so important and really

re-anchor it around their guests and their guests and recommit publicly like own it.

Pick your course segments, know your customers, whether that's progressive suburban families,

whether that's, you know, young urban shoppers, whatever it is. Do so in your actions, not just

your ads, rebuild your inclusive merchandising and diversity with better store level, you know,

planning and instead of retreating from that, I say use transparency in a we heard you campaign

that explains how they'll protect employee values as well as, you know, the consumer values,

making it clear that those are not for sale and those are something that they stand by. And I'd

think designing the price cuts around what we've talked about a customer experience, not just a

panic promo is really important, turning those operational wins into investments into their

team, into the stores, into the consumers. And then really like thinking about how they are going

to continue in the future to integrate their social risk into their product and store governance.

And like I said, there's no winners when you're boycotting and things like that. There's no one winner

and one loser here. But really, you know, train your store employees and your staff to be accountable

because there's going to be interactions with people, you know, and show that authenticity

to the local community, I think is going to be really important. So I think there's ways for

target to really kind of come out of it and kind of rocket ship towards the future. But I think

they do need to really own up really own up right now. Okay. We'll put that all in a paper for them.

She know, do we fix target? I think so. You know, target, you can't put lipstick on a pig.

That's what this is. And everyone has kind of seen right through it. You need to get to the

core of who you were. And that was again, curating experiences. You're not the cheapest store

around. You need to recommit to your consumers one way or the other, right? So get in front of it,

own your mistake. And they're from what you've gone through, right? Whether that's target in

Canada, because you were, you know, I'm looking at this like a train going down the wrong

track, full seam ahead. And I'm like, you've been here before. Don't do this again, right?

From a lot of the brand governance, the storytelling, the experience, right? You cannot afford to

plane this middle ground in a time where retail is suffering across the board and the height of

inflation. People don't have the extra money to spend, you know, the went in for toothpaste,

got a new wardrobe. Everyone's looking at how much they can save on that toothpaste right now.

So yes, this campaign of $3,000, $3,000 items listed. Great. But there needs to be a story around

it without a story. This doesn't mean anything. And it is not building back the trust that people

need to regain trust work for you to survive long term. Well said. Well, target, your move that

is going to wrap up our target episode. Did we hit a bull's eye with our fixes? That's for you

all of a side. If you like what we came up with or you would do this completely differently,

give us a shout on social at we fixed it pod. That's we fixed it pod. And we know the companies we

talk about are paying attention to. We've seen the engagement. We know you're listening. We always

try to do good here. So maybe something will actually happen. As always, all we want is a thank you.

Target. Listen to us. Stay fixed. Because we know from our listeners, there are lots of other

companies out there that desperately need our attention. And for all of you throwing topic ideas

our way, we love it. Keep it going. We'll do our best to get to everything. And we will see you next

time. We hope you enjoyed this episode of We Fixed. You're welcome. We go into every episode

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